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DS Multi-media Update

Defense Tech received a video clip released by the Army showing part of its May 2006 test shoot on Dragon Skin. The video is purported to be from the vest M-01-Front shot (if youre following along in the Army briefing document, its on page 12 and shows an x-ray of the back panel penetration with the front, back and side shot profiles) in which the second shot had a complete penetration.

Youll see the HP White staffers mounting the vest on the bracket, then Pinnacle President Murray Neal inspecting the mounting. Two shots are fired, and then the vest is removed to inspect the shot in the clay backing.

After the vest is removed, the curved clay backing representing the exact area of ESAPI coverage can be seen, and photos are taken by another ballistics expert hired by the Army for the test, Jim Zheng. This belies Neals contention that the Dragon Skin was tested on non-rifle defeating areas.

Notice the first shot is on the edge, as the ESAPI FAT test protocols call for, and shows a deep indentation though it is unclear whether that back face deformation is within ESAPI specs. The second shot, just up and to the right of the first, is the complete penetration. You can see Neal come in and inspect the hole and the HP White engineers dig the round out.

This is not on the high-heat tested vest Neal claims had an adhesive anomaly.

The debate gets more and more curious.

Christian

{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }

campbell May 23, 2007 at 11:51 am

what’s the debate?
it doesn’t work and it’s to heavy.
the logic of many smaller plates (DS)is precisely its’ downside..they are made to be flexible, which means, they flex (move) when struck. You move them, you got gaps. period.
here’s a thought though, wouldn’t it be easier to simply stay out of the line of fire? hey?

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Mark May 23, 2007 at 12:46 pm

Hopefully this video will calm the debates. I think it makes it very clear.
Also I am all for giving the soldiers the best equipment but they still need to be able to do their jobs. I am sure a suit could be constructed that would stop every round out there anywhere on your body. The problem is the thing would weight a few hundred pounds and the soldier could not move. It is all about finding the correct balance.

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Foreign.Boy May 23, 2007 at 1:31 pm

Read the YouTube Description:
“This is a video clip released by the Army showing the Motor Oil test of Dragon Skin in May, 2006.”
Well I’m convinced now that dragon skin isn’t the best choice for the regular forces… I still think it’s a good product otherwise.
If they can’t figure out how to extend the shelf life of the body armour… then it’s not going to do the army any good having ‘glass slippers’ for body armour.

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Camp May 23, 2007 at 4:19 pm

Time to Pony Up. It looks like there is only one way to settle this… put the CEO’s for Dragon Skin & Interceptor down range wearing their respective body armor to be tested. The one who runs, faints, or incurs the greatest wound… fails.
.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=moXAB2YsYRU
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Well, maybe that’s a bit much.
.
This reminds me… Has anyone produced a set of armor to log/transmit impact, penetration, & blast data? I know Zephyr created Smart Fabric, but I’m not aware of anyone having incorporated it yet. Someday your body armor will call a MedEvac for you… And your fridge will order your groceries…eh… someday. :\
.
http://www.zephyrtech.co.nz/?action=page&id=10033

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txzen May 23, 2007 at 5:24 pm

They still haven’t made it easy, page 12 of the pdf has x rays from m-01 BACK and this video is of m-01 front? I don’t know about the m-01 part for sure but the the video looks like the front of the vest with the extra room cut out at the armpits so you can hold you arms out in front of you and the black patch in the middle is on the front right? If they are going to release video couldn’t it correspond with some of the x rays they also released released? Seriously I like the attempts at more disclosure but why so much patchy information release x rays with video that correspond to those x rays.

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William May 23, 2007 at 9:58 pm

In the business that is called a “Smoking Hole”!
Usually the clay is heated from the energy of the bullet so that the oil in the clay vaporizes and actually smokes. There is a lot of smoke if using API ammo.

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Moose May 23, 2007 at 10:06 pm

From AVweek’s Ares:
Philip Coyle, the Pentagon’s former chief tester and a consultant in the NBC News investigation into Dragon Skin body armor, says he’s not convinced by the Army’s defense of its Interceptor system over the past few days. Coyle, a senior adviser at the Center for Defense Information, observed NBC News’ side-by-side tests of Dragon Skin and Interceptor at a ballistics laboratory in Germany. He observed the tests pro bono after a request from NBC News.
Coyle said in a telephone interview with Ares last night that the Army’s PowerPoint slide was “misleading” in its comparison of body coverage between the Army’s Interceptor and Dragon Skin manufactured by Pinnacle Armor. The Army banned soldiers from buying Dragon Skin last year. Coyle said he had his own private briefing of the Dragon Skin testing by one of Brig. Gen. Mark Brown’s senior staff members and was told the Inteceptor’s body coverage was compared to Dragon Skin without the plates that actually provide the protection. Brown heads the Army office charged with selecting body armor.
“What

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Foreign.Boy May 23, 2007 at 11:26 pm

“For my own $.02: Wonder what’s with the 4-minute gap in the vid?”
Probably to protect those that are wearing it now. The Insurgents learned how to find the weak points of interceptor.. and started training snipers to do so….
What about the ‘Trojan Armour’ by Troy Hurtubise? I’m shocked no one is asking questions about it…

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Moose May 24, 2007 at 11:42 am

Sorry I don’t buy that. They show quite clearly afterward where the “penetrations” where in relation to the vest, and they’ve banned DS from active units. I don’t see what in that 4-minute gap could be giving the Insurgents any more info than they already got.

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txzen May 24, 2007 at 3:09 pm

I asked on another forum but maybe some of you know the answer. Why does the .pdf say 4 of 8 tests failed when only 2 tests were passed, the 60 degree test had 0 failures and the salt water test had 0 failures? It would seem that 6 out of 8 vests had penetrations and even one of the “successes,” the 60 below 0 test there where no penetrations were but the discs seem really discombobulated after the testing. There is some weird stuff there or maybe I just missed something.

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patriot May 28, 2007 at 10:34 am

Check out Pinnacle’s Level 5 body armor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKnfHhRl7U0
this is no joke, see for yourself!

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Dave May 31, 2007 at 10:42 am

Perhaps they should make a lightweight, flexible and working level 4 armor before investing more time and money in a project with no real world use and more TV shows..

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Randy June 13, 2007 at 3:30 am

Why test with 5.56. Thats our ammo and it’s quite a bit smaller than their 7.62. In my eyes, the test is invalid.

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JMMC62 September 19, 2007 at 10:13 am

This is a realy late comment. I was in the process of clearing out old stuff and happened to pull this “test” up. I don’t know if anyone else did a frame by frame on this video. I know they did a good job of holding the date=time index. I wondered why the cuts in the video, so I checked closer - a frame by frame. There are problems!
Frames before and after the blackouts don’t match. I always get sceptical when they are in CYA mode. The balistic matterial before and after are way different, the impacked indentations are different, I just don’t think this video is of value.

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Chris T December 31, 2007 at 2:44 pm

Bottom line Dragon Skin has it’s purpose in many critical situations. However as of this Holiday What I tewsted as a new form of Body Armor plate
has now been downsized and tested at 7.62x39mm Armor pierciong rounds with excellent results. It will be tested with 7.62x54R Ap rounds and 30.06 APM2. If it goes then a whole new form of X-SAPI on mY terms not any military or Government or any
Company can dictate how it is built or too much weight ..Why becasue the science to build it is Solid State and it can be built to any size. I can make them 4″x4″ or 4ft x4ft . 12×12 ” will come in at 6 to 7 lbs and stop multiple hits from all Level IV rounds due to design. Added part is they are Modular and strong attachment to current vests.

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Chris T December 31, 2007 at 2:47 pm

New form of X-SAPI is soon to be Public from CBA…Modular and far advanced of any SAPI or ESAPI out on market today. This is revolutionary and already proven 7.62×39 AP and 7.62x54R AP tested and passed.

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Chris T December 31, 2007 at 2:49 pm

Pinnacle now has to see soon to be Level IV + X-SAPI I created …..MAPA I call it. Modular Armor Plate Attachment.

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