Guest Op-Ed: J-20 Shows Need for JSF

Recently DefenseTech ran a piece about the Chinese J-20 “stealth” fighter that points out it may be less troublesome than the initial hype suggested. I put “stealth” in scare quotes for just that reason; we have no idea whether this is a legitimate stealth aircraft or just some fancy sheet metal and paint. We have no clue if they have managed to engineer the sensors and electronic systems needed to fly it or to allow it to go up against our frontline birds.

But that really shouldn’t be giving us a warm fuzzy. If they had actually fielded an aircraft capable of even competing with the F-22 or F-35 it would be keeping everyone responsible for our security up at night. This was still a pretty decent scare and it certainly should remind some folks that the Chinese believe they have surpassed us in the world. Their actions show the truth of that as they build a blue water navy and a blue sky air force and do not recognize any U.S. right to dominate either of those.

Rep. Cantor said this weekend that every government program is on the table for budget cuts and specifically included defense. That should surprise no one in the current environment; our budget and debt problems are now a national security issue. They stop us from acting with the strength we should when countries like China, who holds around a trillion dollars of our debt, start acting up. So cuts to defense will come and the question then becomes how to make sure we don’t lose our ability to control the sea lanes and the air above our forces.

The F-22 program has been cancelled and so we have already removed the only true air superiority fighter we designed from the equation. That leaves the F-35 as our frontline fighter and also our biggest weapons procurement program. We will win or lose based on the number and capability of these planes if we are tested. Of course we hope that doesn’t happen, but we have to build the tools we need to win especially to deter someone from trying us if we appear weak.

There are no other programs that can replace the F-35 any time in the next couple of decades. The problem starts when cuts to production start driving up the cost of each aircraft. This can cause a cascade as the thousands of suppliers have orders cut or delayed and they are much less able to absorb these than the large contractors. Some of these companies then have to lay off staff and may even go out of business. Then you have a smaller supply of suppliers so prices climb and this spiral is difficult to contain. In a time when our economy is stagnant it makes no sense to kill good-paying American jobs, and at the same time weaken our national security.

If the F-35 is our bird, then let’s get behind it; let’s get it finished, and then let’s get them in the air.

John Wagner, co-founder of the first US airline to provide scheduled service into Baghdad after the U.S. invasion.

26 Comments on "Guest Op-Ed: J-20 Shows Need for JSF"

  1. " The problem starts when cuts to production start driving up the cost of each aircraft. This can cause a cascade as the thousands of suppliers have orders cut or delayed and they are much less able to absorb these than the large contractors. Some of these companies then have to lay off staff and may even go out of business. Then you have a smaller supply of suppliers so prices climb and this spiral is difficult to contain. In a time when our economy is stagnant it makes no sense to kill good-paying American jobs, and at the same time weaken our national security."

    So you're basically saying is that we should support the F-35 since it works as a welfare program?

    Your whole argument revolves around the idea that the F-35 is a good counter to whatever the Chinese cook-up in their region. However, the F-35 is supremely unsuited for any encounter with China. Which by itself is an insane thought, the U.S. has never attacked another nuclear power.

    There is this famous Sun Tzu quote, "Never throw good men to prolong a losing battle, only use reinforcements to exploit a victory". I believe that applies here.

    The F-35 has proven to be the most horribly mishandled weapons program of the last decade, if not of all time in the U.S. . We now have a plane that is nearly 3-4 times overbudget per plane, hell we can theoretically get F-22s for cheaper even with retooling. We have the F-35B that was the entire basis for the JSF (as in its compromised design) that is now on probation and may even be canceled.

    I am sorry, but as a taxpayer I demand accountability. We have given Lockheed their chance, and they abused us.

  2. The F-35 is a decent fifth-gen aircraft. It could have been better had it not been saddled with such requirements creep. It can still shape up to be a good core to the U.S. air fleet, but the price has to be right. The die is cast, and time shall tell.

    If the F-35 price explodes and the program goes belly-up, I certainly hope someone at the Pentagon has a plan to keep our forth-gen aircraft relevant and flying.

  3. Its 50% over budget, delayed for years because of problem after problem, it isnt full aspect stealth, and it has a limited weapons payload… Lets get behind it! NOT

  4. How does the Chinese belief that they don't have to respect some absurd American "right to dominate" and that maybe they should be able to mount a credible defense of their economic interests against a power that is host to a mentality that allows the straight-faced utterance of that phrase imply that they believe they have "surpassed us in the world"? It certainly shows that they believe they now have enough power to stake out their own sphere of influence. I have no basis to say that elements of the Chinese leadership don't believe that they have surpassed us, but the existence of that mentality doesn't follow from this action, unless it's supposed that no one would dare affront the US in this way unless they were ready for an full-scale struggle with the US in one sense or another, which would require an even more cynical view of the US than I have.
    The author and many others seem to be alarmed not so much by any specific actions of China's, but the threat to US hegemony that its come to represent. Increasing military expenditures accomplishes what? We can "act with strength"? Whether we would steamroll China or fight it to a standstill, warfare is likely to stay off the table, it's too destructive and too unprofitable for both parties, even leaving out nukes. Between the US and China, there can't be a Falklands-type clash because if there were, and even if it didn't escalate, the loser of a narrow-scope conflict would be unlikely to have suffered a serious enough defeat (I'm assuming nuclear threats would forestall a truly disastrous campaign) that they'd be cowed, instead they'd start plotting round two and another Cold War would ensue. (Of course, its been alleged that Cheney, for one, wanted another Cold War of sorts, so it could happen. However, I'm focusing on rational policy suggestions.)
    What constrains us is China's economic influence. If the US wants dominance, no number of fighters which everyone knows can hardly be used will secure it in the long term when its economic power, which is wielded all the time, is fading. China attracts resource rich nations to its orbit with engineering assistance and infrastructure investment. While the US does use soft power to secure resources (former SSRs), it has also employed hard power with fairly disastrous results and doesn't have a state oil company to use to help keep oil and gas flowing (a la sinopec and pdvsa) . While China aggressively intervenes to increase the scope and sophistication of its industrial base, the US protects finance capital and appeases neoliberals at the expense of engaging in productive activity or investing in infrastructure that could keep the US competitive, then attempts to smooth it over with unsustainable debt. China doesn't even have to do a good job, we'll allow finance to Latvianize us, and then when we're powerless and broke relative to China, militarists will be saying "if only the government would buy more F-46s we'd be able to act with strength". Either that or they seize power and actually spend all our money on arms.

  5. The F-35 just is not good enough to compete with other 5th generation fighters (PAF-FA, J-20, and others that will surely come), it's waaaaaay too expensive to compete with 4th generation fighters, and too complex and vulnerable for a ground support role. It's just not good for anything.

  6. Cranky Observer | January 25, 2011 at 7:16 am | Reply

    Test of seriousness: are you willing to support a return of the margin income tax rates – including the top marginal rates, to where they were at the end of the Reagan Administration, and a repeal of the hedge fund loophole and similar tax expenditures for the ultra-wealthy, to pay down our debt to the PRC, to make good on the trillions borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund (SocSec being in $1.5 trillion _surplus_ state at the moment), and actually paygo for all this vitally needed "defense" capability? If not, well…

    Cranky

  7. The F-35 is not a front line fighter. It is a general purpose craft that has some capability to fight, but you would not put it out to dog fight. its just a replacement for the F16/18. If anything the Presence of the J20 makes the case for restarting the F22 line, junking the F35, and invest in upgrading our current generation of fighters, as if we have a robust 5th gen fighter leading the fight, we don't have much need to stealth for the task horses of the air force.

  8. As Joe notes the chance of a direct conflict between the US and China is zero. But the F35 hands China yet another huge diplomatic advantage: military alliances with US result in you getting access to only second rate aircraft that cant go head to head with equipment supplied by China.

    Combine that with Chinese capital and access to the worlds biggest market and for many Asian countries alignment with China is a no-brainer. China is selling high speed rail and other infrastructure across Asia with low interest loans. America is selling an 'opportunity' to prop up it's failing defense industries by buying second rate equipment.

    But of course Lockheed couldn't care less. The funny thing is that people praise the F22 but it was canceled because Lockheed was obviously screwing America. It just looks good now that Lockheed is screwing us even worse with the F35. No doubt if the F35 was canceled the replacement would be a Lockheed aircraft with even lower performance and costing even more.

  9. The underlying problem is that America has lost much of its industrial base and the manufacturing skills that go with it. Look at how many weapons programs fail in terms of the quality of the delivered product, never mind cost and schedule. With a great industrial base and plenty of manufacturing and high-tech know-how, the Chinese will dominate east-Asia / western-Pacific in the near future (say less than 10 years from now). The US cannot compete in the long-term unless it pursues policies aimed at encouraging manufacturing and industry like the Germans, Japanese, Koreans and Chinese.

  10. Please explain to me exactly the F-35 does worse than a J-20?
    Please explain just how the F-111 sized 60k lb + j-20 will turn and burn
    with the 9g F-35A? You can put canards on a 747 but that wont make it 9g!
    Are you really going to go out on a limb and claim the F-35 isn’t all aspect?

  11. Its a known fact that its not full aspect stealth.

  12. The next op-ed on the usefulness of the F-35 will be from Joe the plumber.

  13. "There are no other programs that can replace the F-35 any time in the next couple of decades."

    I'm betting the Silent Eagle can take on this J-20. And why do I keep hearing about the F-22 program being "canceled"? Downsized, yes….but not canceled at all.

  14. I am beginning to think that "Silent Eagle" upgrades are an attractive alternative. If the F-35 is not an all aspect stealth platform (neither is the F-22 technically all aspect) then the F-15 SE may just do the job far more effectively. Think about it. It is a very low risk investment on a proven platform that would extend the service life of a great plane and probably do as good a job as the F-35.

  15. "Guest Op-Ed: J-20 Shows Need for JSF"

    We were going to buy plenty of JSF before the J-20. The need for the JSF is to have a platform with stealth to replace the F16 to use as a multi-role fighter and sell to our allies.
    While is has (some aspect) stealth, the F-35 is a poor replacement for the F-16 in terms of agility, weapons load, and cost effectiveness. That's the problem with the program – it isn't nearly as cost effective as it needs to be to allow us to buy 1000 units.
    That was true before the J-20.

    The J-20 just makes Gates look stupid for cancelling the F-22 (which Japan and Australia wanted to buy as a deterrant to China).

  16. I feel like a lot of people forget that any potential air-to-air engagement with the PLAAF will involve multiple types of aircraft: F-22s, F-35s, F-15s, F-18s, and F-16s.

  17. I read the comments and damn we are in some deep sh*t. End of story.

  18. nonito d. cabato | January 26, 2011 at 8:27 pm | Reply

    just buy 1,000 F-22A Block 35 with increment 3.3 software version, for every24 F-22 bought retire 50 legacy fighter. The air force should only buy the F-35B models 680 0f them for CAS . For serious bombing buy the long range bomber with a specification of 6,000 nautical unrefuel range with a bomb pay load of 14 tons with cruising speed of 650mph or more. The purpose of your armed force is to defend the mainland USA!

    NAVY;
    600 F-22N forward swing wing variant
    another 45 DDG-51 flight III destroyer
    16 DDG-1000

  19. 1. The F-22 would cost a fortune to navalize. you don't just throw a tail hook on a plane and call it a navy fighter. It would need an entire redesign.

    2. The F-35 does not cost 200 million each. Canada will buy 65 for 9 billion that comes out to 138 million each. and no telling what spares and setup was added to contract. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/QPeriod/20110114/fighte

    3. The wiki article on the F-35 said nothign about the plane having no rear aspect stealth this is pure speculation.
    In spite of being smaller than the F-22, the F-35 has a larger radar cross section. It is said to be roughly equal to a metal golf ball rather than the F-22's metal marble.[100] The F-22 was designed to be difficult to detect by all types of radars and from all directions.[101] The F-35 on the other hand manifests its lowest radar signature from the frontal aspect because of compromises in design. Its surfaces are shaped to best defeat radars operating in the X and upper S band, which are typically found in fighters, surface-to-air missiles and their tracking radars, although the aircraft would be easier to detect using other radar frequencies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35

    It says the frontal aspect is the best. Not " the F-35 has 0 rear aspect stealth" sweet Lord!!

    4. The F-35 can carry 2000 pound class weapons. the F-22 cannot. http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/f35/e

    I'm sorry but the amount of disinformation on this blog is mind blowing

  20. Remember when that US came up with "starwars tech" and the ruskies went bankrupt trying to field enough technology to keep up. Will the chicoms use the same tactic on us????
    But then again we are technically bankrupt from the reckless spending of the regime of comrade 0buma anyways. So does it really mean a thing anyways. We are a commie nation.

  21. 私は、シーンにあった、との加害者は、負傷や法律は判決ものになるかどうか、殺されている間、私は撃ったが、残念ながら、私は暴力を停止する必要がある場合は? エアマックス2014「私はそれが刑事と民事責任から、勇敢だったことを認めちゃう?私はそのようなあなたが泥棒を捕まえるときのように、過去に通って多くのことを考えて、不注意に起因する泥棒は、窓の外に落ちた、と死、そしてそのような損傷の原因は、モンクレール私は法的保護ではないではない場合にのみ、そのように裁判のケースのシリーズは見ていわゆる勇敢を認識するだけでなく、対応する法的責任を負う、このような法律は、もはや勇敢あえて私たちの多くを導いていない。私は被害者、加害者を支援しながら撮影した場合は、私が負傷し、民事部門は私が参考になります?多くの以前の実施例に見られる同じによっては困難である。シャネル トートバッグ

    私は本当に急いですることができたとは思わなかったのであれば、、、ちょうど私にそれについて考えるには少し時間を与え、私は警察を呼びます。

  22. 私の元のQQのログの一部を送る

    赤ちゃんを持っている! 2010年12月8日

    フォントにログイン編集削除:ミディアム

    前へ次へ|前:2009年7月8日?

    赤ん坊を持っている、シャネル リング

    叔母は、時間厳守到着しませんでした

    ああ、ええと、私たちはそれが本当に戦隊のリーダーだった、試験紙を使用してみてください。

    私の夫はまだ真夜中12:00試験紙を買うために私に尋ねたことを確信していません。

    ドアから出て、ugg ムートンブーツ水の飲み物をたくさん、家を測定することができると言う。

    朝のSAMは、たとえば、運転、仕事に行くために

    「昨夜はとても興奮していたので、私はあなたが私はああ、早く、今日までだけど、見ることができない、眠れませんでした!……

    私は彼が実際にああとても幸せであるように、疑問に思う!

    それは、私は非常に幸せだったようだ。

    ママは4ボールに鶏肉と鶏肉を買って、モンクレール ダウン メンズ

    ただ音を聞いて非常に満足し、友人である、家に来ている。

    ママは、長期的な乳母を行う準備ができ、そして! ! !
    見積もりは明日報告されます。

    親愛なるお母さん、ありがとうございました!

    しかし、私は何の応答もないように見える、私の精神的な能力はまだ非常に弱いです。いいえ適応はありません。

  23. 私はもともと北と南、習慣の違い、共通の基盤と相互尊重にも思う。私はゲストがうんご飯Duanwanを食べているとき、グッチ 財布彼の家族の恥を与えないだろう。時彼女の義理私がいた人、人、グッチ
    財布 激安相互恥ずかしさもありますか?私自身の家族の中で、誰に、彼らはそれを見ていますか?彼らは私がそれを食べるためにそれらを強制していなかった、ugg ムートンブーツパンを食べていない?彼らは私にZuosaそれを食べる特定の要件を与えていない!私はそれを考慮するための唯一の子を考慮した私の夫は、モンクレール レディースすべての道を走った、どのように来ることができない?私は本当に自宅ああ行きたい!

  24. Mは、私は私の最高のチェイス既婚男性に遭遇したになりました。
    主な条件は、私の仲間と非常に一致している。

    過去について話をしない中高生、ugg
    モカシン大学生がクラスに男の子を聞いて、求婚者をたくさん持っている、私の多くの夜の話題は述べています。グッチ リング

    ジュニアはボーイフレンド、学校のバスケットボールチームについて話しました、ugg メンズと私は背の高い好きなので、ああ逃れることはできません。時折一度後ろに彼を聞いて、彼のチームメイトは私がバーストを把握し、ugg ムートンブーツどのように感じている非常に強い感情ではありません。
    NMが、私は彼が私が議論したい記事の話を聞いて、彼の後ろにいた。

    実際に、彼は私が拒否しているように私には、提案がございます、シャネル
    ネックレス人はまだその時点までの気持ちを感じ、そして第二に、私は婚前交渉を拒否します。しかし、どちらかといえば、彼は触れて抱きしめ、彼を拒否しているので、私も受け入れている。

  25. そして、彼女は大学の知人を卒業し、最初の年に仕事の外にお粗末だった。誰が時折彼女の頭の近くにマイクロチャネルを見ては、シルエットでギターを保持ビーチで女の子だった。シャネル ccクリーム私はいつも応援してルネを好きでした。彼女はその後、彼女は、ビジュアルマーチャンダイザーであったことを付け加えた。多くの場合、ネクタイしないネクタイチャットをしたら。その後、彼女は北京に行っていたことは長い旅であってもよい、私は四川·チベットラインに人を取ると述べた。それから私は、私はあなたにはがきをあげるとあなたが一緒に私と一緒に風景を共有できるようにしたいと思います場所にノーと言った。シャネル リングこれは私が警告なしに、理由はありません、一人旅することを選択した初めてです、離れて。前の晩と小学生もちょうど断固として西への道に乗り出したような翌朝の悪魔のように、光笑いを置く。実際には、この旅は長い間保留されていますが、この時点でちょうどアウト噴出。長い時間、および労働生活を卒業、非常に独り善がりではありません。苦労し、風と雨の中揺れる、、都会の喧騒に、ラインオフ凧のように、全く方向性を元の理想と誇りを忘れない。不安、恐怖は、私の体と魂にすべての時間を満たした。ugg ムートンブーツ私はどこから来た私はどこへ行く、忘れてしまった。

    私は私の友人と呼ばれるとき、私は雅安市の川であった。私は、はるかにはるかに数え行くことができ、あてもなく歩いて、西に行く茶馬の道の最初から始めることにした。私の友人は狂人私を呼び出すと、私は喜んで受け入れた。ケルサンはネルーダ詩的OKとフロントに言った、私は彼女を信じて、私は行きます。

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