Did Chinese Espionage Lead to F-35 Delays?

Did Chinese cyber spying cause the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter’s cost spikes and production delays? That’s the question Pentagon budget officials are asking according to Aviation Week.

Chinese spies apparently hacked into secure conference calls and listened to meetings discussing the classified technologies aboard the jets. In particular, China may have stolen info about the F-35’s secure communications and antenna systems; leading to costly software rewrites and other redesigns to compromised parts of the plane.

The worst part, this problem isn’t just limited to the F-35, though the program’s size and the fact that it’s information systems were apparently designed without any concern for cyber espionage made it an easy target.

Anyone who has been following U.S.-China military relations and cyber warfare knows that China has been hacking into the networks of U.S. defense contractors and the Pentagon and rolling out brand new weapons like the J-20 stealth fighter.

Here’s the latest from Av Week:

Before the intrusions were discovered nearly three years ago, Chinese hackers actually sat in on what were supposed to have been secure, online program-progress conferences, the officials say.

The full extent of the connection is still being assessed, but there is consensus that escalating costs, reduced annual purchases and production stretch-outs are a reflection to some degree of the need for redesign of critical equipment. Examples include specialized communications and antenna arrays for stealth aircraft, as well as significant rewriting of software to protect systems vulnerable to hacking.

It is only recently that U.S. officials have started talking openly about how data losses are driving up the cost of military programs and creating operational vulnerabilities, although claims of a large impact on the Lockheed Martin JSF are drawing mixed responses from senior leaders. All the same, no one is saying there has been no impact.

While claiming ignorance of details about effects on the stealth strike aircraft program, James Clapper, director of national intelligence, says that Internet technology has “led to egregious pilfering of intellectual capital and property. The F-35 was clearly a target,” he confirms. “Clearly the attacks . . . whether from individuals or nation-states are a serious challenge and we need to do something about it.”

The F-35 issue was ducked as well by David Shedd, deputy director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, but not the impact of cybertheft on defense spending and operational security.

“I am not going to talk about the F-35, Shedd says. “I’d be sitting with the secretary having a counseling session. The answer is absolutely yes. The leaks have hurt our efforts in that it gives the adversary an advantage in having insights into what we’re doing. It should be clear that whether there are leaks on the technology side or that affect preemptive decision-making, they are very damaging to the intelligence community.”

Those closer to the program are less equivocal about the damage that cyberintrusions are causing the JSF program.

“You are on to something,” says a veteran combat pilot with insight into both the F-35 and the intelligence communities “There are both operational and schedule problems with the program related to the cyber data thefts. In addition, there are the costs of redressing weaknesses in the original system design and lots of software fixes.”

Here’s the kicker, the JSF’s info systems weren’t built with cyber espionage in mind, this led to a bunch of subcontractors networks being ‘totally compromised.” Shocking considering the plane was meant for the 21st Century. C’mon guys.

Defense analysts note that the JSF’s information system was not designed with cyberespionage, now called advanced persistent threat, in mind. Lockheed Martin officials now admit that subcontractors (6-8 in 2009 alone, according to company officials) were hacked and “totally compromised.” In fact, the stealth fighter program probably has the biggest “attack surface” or points that can be attacked owing to the vast number of international subcontractors.

There also is the issue of unintended consequences. The 2009 hacking was apparently not aimed at the F-35 but rather at a classified program. However, those accidental results were spectacular. Not only could intruders extract data, but they became invisible witnesses to online meetings and technical discussions, say veteran U.S. aerospace industry analysts. After the break-in was discovered, the classified program was halted and not restarted until a completely new, costly and cumbersome security system was in place.

  • blight

    If the Soviets had lasted into the modern age, the KGB would be rolling on the floor laughing their asses off.

    We’ve leaked like sieves before. But has it delayed our procurement by this much before?

    • Macghillemuir

      If the Soviets were still around we would have better security and bigger budgets for that security. We are too busy trying to be friends with the chinese to consider them a security threat apparrently.

  • William C.

    The government and DoD does a lot of talking about cyber security but I don’t see much being done in the way of actual effort. This is absolutely unacceptable.

    • The_Hand

      The DOD actually has finally gotten started on the problem. There is a movement underway to eliminate the sprawl where every platoon has its own independent IT department, and start centralizing IT services in larger data centers with cross-domain security and other hardening. That will greatly reduce the attack surface of the DOD cyber infrastructure in general.

      Similarly, the F-35 itself is running a secure separation kernel that at worst would limit any cyber intrusion to the one component that was compromised.

      Unfortunately, none of that includes the contractors who are actually doing the development. That’s the weak link–Lockheed and the zillions of subcontractors all doing classified work behind whatever toy firewalls they happen to have, if indeed they have firewalls.

      • TMB

        That’s the problem here. The DoD’s classified network wasn’t breached, but the contractor’s was.

  • Strider

    I’m beginning to think this truly is the age of transparency.

    You’ll get it no matter what one way or another.

  • LtKitty

    Really?…. I’d like to think our defense industry isn’t so outrageously silly from time to time…

  • Nick T.

    It would better for security if you just build a separate “internet” not connected to the main web, but a separate series of computers and servers only on their own network, and only linked to major bases, contractors, etc. Problem is building that in this economic environment.

  • Skyepapa

    Is it possible that part of our counter-espionage tactics include overstating the damage of an intrusion like this? Let them listen to conversation A so they don’t drill down farther to something we really don’t want them hearing? Then rant about how the Chinese hacked an important meeting? Wish I could believe we were that buttoned up.

    • blight

      Not Lockheed. I wouldn’t put it past the CIA though.

  • Bill

    Sometimes the “Stone Age” is not that bad.

    As far as cyber security is concerned, there is no barrier that people can’t find their way around. You need to think about the physical means in which your data is being transferred in order to stop data theft.

    Serial connections are the only feasible means of doing this – Connect PC “A” with PC “B” and not anywhere else – No internet, No outside connection, no Wi-Fi… you would actually need to physically commit theft.

    • BigRick

      your right Bill, being a network guy myself, it really makes you wonder why EVERYTHING needs to be connected to the Internet, Firewalls are only speed bumps.

      All sensitive info should be kept in a completely isolated network from the corporate network i.e. you have to be there physically to access the data

      • blight

        Go intranet.

        Then again, once people decide they want to be able to stream important data between points in real time, they’re just leaving the door open.

    • pedestrian

      Yes, while I promote stand alone environment, some idiot is trying to promote a network dependent cloud computing. DoD should flush military variation down the toilet and forget about it.

  • Dfens

    Yeah, it’s the Chinese that are causing F-35 development to crawl along at a snail’s pace. It certainly is not the fact that we pay the defense contractor a profit incentive to drag out development. No, it is clearly China’s fault. Right. We have found the enemy, and it is us.

  • crazy

    Never would have happened in the Kelly Johnson days.

    • blight

      Kelly kept everything in-house and the only outsiders plugged in were guys like Dick Bissell. However, this mode of business is long dead, and everything is teleconferences, audits and interconnectedness of data and ease of download (versus sending crates of paperwork). Any espionage group can simply scoop up everything they can get their hands on and sort it out later: in the old days, espionage depended on being able to quickly decide what was worth stealing and grabbing it. Kelly’s practice was to avoid excessive classification so that interesting things would hide in background clutter and someone going for the highest classified items would probably not find anything of interest design-wise.

  • John Moore

    I run four servers and I constantly see Hong Kong IP’s trying to get in.

    • blight

      In an age of zombienets, it’s hard to say where attacks are coming from anymore. Maybe Hong Kongers are just as bad as Americans when it comes to computer security?

    • pedestrian

      I was harassed by some IP addresses leadeing to China weeks ago, and I port scanned them back as a warning, and they came back port scanning with mini-DoS from several more IP addresses. If the government ever gave permission, I would be trigger happy to wipe their computers off the network.

    • passingby

      The US is still the largest cyber security threat in the world. Many of reported cyber attacks may very well have been done by CIA/MI6/Mossad operatives via poorly guarded networks in China/Hong Kong/Korea etc.

      The US has been a leader in false flag operations after Britain’s decline.

  • wmcritter

    How many acts of war must China commit against us before we do something about it?

    • DanS

      Well considering they haven’t yet, your question is a touch premature. Its espionage dude, lighten up or perhaps we should carpet bomb Tel Aviv because of their spying on us? Or maybe the UK should order an arty strike on Lakenheath because we spy on the UK? Should we sink a Japanese destroyer or two because they spy on us? Grow up.

    • Buzzy

      @ DanS

      So once we grow up we can’t protect ourselves and our possesions?

    • Storm

      Yeah and I always hear about US Specia lForces and spies are molesting countries like China at will all the time. You don’t think that’s an act of war?

    • TMB

      The problem with calling this an act of war is proof. Any decent cyber attacker can claim plausible deniability due to zombies (using someone else’s computer as a proxy to attack someone). The victim of the attack also has to disclose how they discovered the attack which could compromise intelligence sources.

      DanS has a point that espionage has always been one of those “we all do it, so don’t get upset” situations. While I would love to see every military server in China fall victim to a power surge tomorrow, if everyone decided to launch an airstrike every time there was a hack or a spy talked to someone it would be WWIII. Hell, between us and China if we started an all out cyber war we could probably shut down the world if we put enough resources into it. What good would that do?

      • DanS

        Exactly, we are never going to war with one of our largest trading partners and someone who holds 8% of our national debt. Particularly when it would absolutely cripple our economy. The impact would cripple us, as there isn’t another source available for all the goods we need on a daily basis. The scale of Chinese production resources is amazing. Its something we could never make up for within North and South America let alone the US. All this blathering about a future war is several pay-grades below where the actual decisions get made. Or its done to jin up donations to Heritage or AEI.

    • jack

      I was waiting for someone to ask this question, but now that obama is in charge, probably nothing will be done sabout it. Stupid on our part to start with not protecting ourself fromsomething like this.

    • passingby

      The real question is how many acts of war must the US commit against China before the Chinese do something about it.

      • Mark

        dumb = you

    • Dubya

      Where have you been? The U.S. navy and drones has been along China’s coastline routinely scanning and trying to crack into China for decades.

  • RCDC

    Possible. Now we need to reboot the price to $ 1.

  • I think they’re releasing this info to make us feel more “protected” when they cram SOPA type law down our throats.

  • RCDC

    Just don’t hook the server to the internet. Use firewall, secured router and secured satellite cable from IBM.

  • BB5

    Time to pull the plug on these contractors and subcontractors. None of them should have internet access anywhere. No such thing as secure internet. Also time to fine the hell out that taxpayer leech LM for being cheap, incompetent and lazy.

  • Would it be so hard to keep everything offline?
    Whats wrong with Snail mail?
    Is flying so expensive they cannot get together?
    Granted, this would slow things down, but it would also make the aircraft not an open book…..

    • passingby

      Yes, it’s pretty hard to keep everything offline in a collaborative project like the F-35.

      What’s wrong with Snail mail? It’s too slow and insecure.

      Yes, it’s too expensive to be flying back and forth for meetings.

      No, it would slow things down and still make it an open book. Money can buy anything.

  • John Moore

    Whats wrong with Snail mail?

    Kinda saiz it all right there imagine the delays with snail mail.

  • Tad

    If the DoD is so serious about cyber security, why do they run almost solely Windows, Outlook, etc…?

  • Lance

    While yes the Chinese could be trying to hack into US aircraft makers databases I doubt all could but related to the many delays in this troubled planes development. A big problem is that this is a international program so some allied nations have access to materials and lacks security to keep them confidential.

    Overall the J-20 was based on Russian technology NOT American a F-35 is still ahead of a J-20 by light years.

    • So?

      What Russian plane did the J-20 canopy and intakes come from?

      • Lance

        Alot of its technology came from the Russian MiG 1.44 ATF which was cancelled. With both Sukhoi and Mikoyan working on TA-50 and other new projects and the Russians not really wanting to give China latest technology the older MiG project was given to Chinese aviation experts. China also had information from the F-117A shot down over Serbia in 99. But they lack latest technology from the F-22 F-35 or TA-50.

      • Chimp

        Speaking as someone who generally doesn’t regard the PLA as a threat…

        The DSI intakes were from the F-35 programme. The WS-10 is based on US engine technology, at least in part. The list goes on…

        Some of it was transferred by US companies, and some from Israel. A fair bit was supplied by friendly neighbours (hello, Pakistan).

        A certain amount is as the result of espionage. I suspect mostly the old fashioned, personal style, with a modicum of network based stuff.

        The PRC develops its own stuff, and buys, borrows or steals where appropriate. Much like everyone else.

    • Willard

      No it’s not. Russian tech is crap now . Exploding rockets. No one wants that.

  • blight

    That said, it is possible that attempted theft by the PRC and causing these types of delays could be their mission in the first place. Hard to say that they aren’t winning the longer JSF is delayed.

    If they wanted immediate deliverables, hack P&W and GE and grab engine designs, then prioritize reproducing next-gen American engines. Why sleep at night?

  • Ben

    We SERIOUSLY need to retaliate for Chinese espionage and cyberattacks. This kind of behavior cannot go on tolerated like this. The United States NEEDS to respond with economic penalties, cyber-retaliation of its own, and other punitive measures.

    • Blur

      Like the US doesn’t spy?

    • TMB

      Ben, for all you know we’re already doing it. We’re certainly not going to advertise if we’re conducting cyber attacks on someone.

  • Greg Latiak

    Nothing connected to the Internet can ever be secure. We need to stop deluding ourselves that we are so clever that we can keep other, equally clever, people from hacking into our stuff. Nothing is more secure than NO CONNECTION (except maybe powered off…). When will these dweebs figure this out? We are not that smart, despite what we tell ourselves…

  • Black Owl

    Wow… and thought the F-35 design itself was a problem. This takes things to a whole new level. Our security is seriously fucked up right now. However, I still believe it’s true that we are getting more information on the Chinese than they are on us. The question is who is really benefiting from the espionage? We certainly have a lot more to steal in the area of advanced technology. I doubt we can acquire anything new from the Chinese as they exist now.

  • TH1

    How about this:

    You steal our stuff, we stop all business with you…

    and and by the way, you can forget about getting your loan to taxpayers paid back.. consider the money you borrowed the US a DOWNPAYMENT on the secret stuff you stole!

    • Juuso

      And who would loan money to USA after trick like that? None.

      • TH1

        EXACTLY !!! NONE! And maybe finally this country will WAKE UP and live within its means, cut its crazy out of control spending and get its act together… exactly the point!!!

    • javanaut

      I’ve heard they owe the US $1 billion in bonds from before the communists took over. Of course, lying is communist truth if it furthers communism, theft is communist honesty etc. So Chinese leaders conveniently ignore that old debt.
      Don’t know if there’s any truth to this …

  • Kooch

    Its time to take the kiddie gloves off when dealing with China

  • JRL

    If they’re smart, the powers that be are only pretending to keep the almighty JSF tech secret. Because with any luck, the ChiComs will get sucked into swallowing it whole, and then destroy THEIR OWN air force and military budget by trying to copy the three-way cluster**** called the F-35.

    Once that’s dopne, the DoD can finally reveal that its real name is not ‘Lightning II, but ‘Trojan Horse II”…

  • Kski

    Thank god this ani’t the Cold War with our pal Ivan. But this is a new kind of Cold War with the PRC. They coutinually pull crap like this year in and year out. Honestly I hope we are getting more from the PRC than they are from us. But ending buissness with the PRC is not a great idea. They’ll be able to weather the economic backlash better than we the USA will. For the time being lets wait till they do something really stupid. Like being coaught selling Iran missiles. Or becoming more aggressive in the South China Sea, as in firing on someone allied with us. So in the end our options aren’t at all open. So for now, FEAR THE REDS!

  • lazrtx

    China doesn’t need to hack into anything. With dems running the show all they have to do is name their price and it will be handed to them.

    • M167A1

      Leftist political thought is highly dogmatic in many areas, notably economics and foreign policy and unable to adapt to evidence that contradicts a “correct” position.

      To be fair, right-leaning political thought (in the US at least) is dogmatic on many social issues. However this is not a threat to my children nor to my country so I give them a pass, and concentrate on our enemies, radical Islam, China and worst of all the traitorous American left.

      • RTFA

        Our real problem is political gridlock, in large part because the right-wing fringe has encouraged narrow-minded arrogance like this post, rather than treat it as ignorant and destructive.

        It’s obvious that both sides can adopt that behavior, and that it’s not in anyone’s interest to refuse to respect other opinions and work together. The political gridlock is killing us; the world continues to turn and problems accumulate, while our government stands unable to act.

        • crackedlenses

          Or we could let the left have what they want and the country will still collapse anyway; guess you can’t win for losing in the game of “nice guy”…..

        • Its not the government’s responsibility “to act” at every man’s perceived “problems” and self interests. That is how we have arrived in our current state. I for one am happy with the gridlock as it puts the brakes on the rampant leftism destroying America with its nanny statism and soft socialism.

          The government is working perfectly. Americans voted for a crew of obstructionist Republicans to stop the Democrat agenda. It is not the duty of government to constantly pass laws and address new problems and constantly churn out regulations, especially when those very regulations and laws end up harming the country’s military, cultural, economic position through unintended consequences.

          Thanks for the leftist meme disguised as rational thought.

    • Dem

      You are an IDIOT. You don’t have walking around sense. You need a keeper.

  • Jeff

    Oh come on, this smacks of desperation, grasping at the last flimsy straw of spurious excuses to justify a monumental fuckup. FAIL.

  • FtD

    so your wife’s taking a bath and not closed the windows and your neighbor’s enjoying the show so you gonna grab your double barrel and shoot him? act of war lol…..

  • mpower6428

    is anybody getting the distinct impression that the metric of future world dominence won’t be how many missiles or tanks, or how large a GDP or industrial base is but… how many “girls with dragon tatooes” a country can educate and support…?

    • blight

      GDP and industry still count. Even if North Korea had a large cyberhacking corps, it couldn’t do anything for millions of starving peoiple; except maybe hacker blackmail.

  • HWJ

    The rule of thumb:
    If you don’t know who to blame, blame China.

  • Jon

    This is the dumbest story ever. Lets build a shitty plane and blame it on the Chinese. Brilliant.

  • Rob

    Chinese have already won the war. Entire areas of mostly Chinese in every major town globally. They say even, Canada, will someday soon have a Chinese majority.

    They will never war us simply for that fact. They just prepare for if Korea kicks off & to keep competitive in the arms market.

    As I see it they are smart, they prepare for the worst case scenarios. We haven’t & hope we start soon.


    The F-35 is an extremely complex jet with all sorts of sensors and an extremely complex avionics suite as one might think it might be simply too much as they should essentially build a F-35 with the basics before adding in the avionics and more sophisticated avionics in later versions as this would allow the cost of the F-35 to be built for a lower cost like the F-16 which has a starting price of about $75-80M while the top tier variant with things like the AESA radar is almost $150M.

  • Marcellus Hambrick

    This is okay with a lot if liberals. They dont like the fact that the US is the only superpower and want someone like the Chinese to match us economically and militarily.

    • RTFA

      Which “liberals” say that? Do you have any pride in your credibility, or is it too much fun to make things up?

  • RCDC

    This happens because we all have computer parts, software, networking , radar boosters and etc all made in China. Think about it. Where did it go wrong?

  • Trooper2

    I agree – espionage is just part of the game. But its too easy to just blame it on the ignorance or an unwillingness of the contractors to prevent cyber attacks. Even with all of the technical resources, trained and dedicated people, and command authority available, the DoD gets hacked, too.

  • passingby

    It’s a blame game gimmick that serves two purposes at once – (a) deflect responsibility for various failures on the part of the contractors such as severe budget overruns and delays in development, and (b) justify demands for additional funding to the tune of tens of billions to fatten the pockets of the contractors.

    The US military industrial complex will further benefits by hyping up the so-called China threat as part of their propaganda campaign to justify further theft of US taxpayers money through extraordinarily wasteful spending of various military programs.

    Whenever a news story comes out that has the consequence of justifying additional military spending while blaming foreign countries for espionage, it’s time for heightened vigilance, suspicion, and scrutiny.

    I wouldn’t take the report at face value. The US military and defense contractors have been persistent liars over the past 4-5 decades to say the least.

    I think they want more money and divert media’s attention of their own failures.

  • Alex Mason

    The US deliberately leaked details of the F-35 to the Chinese … how do you think the Chinese developed a stealth fighter that looks similar to the F-22 ? Once the Chinese come up with a reverse engineered variant of the F-35, Lockheed will use its lobby in the White House to push sales of additional squadrons of the F-35

  • passingby

    It’s all about money. They want to squeeze US taxpayers dry by creating imaginary / false enemies and trick the US voters and the government into spending more on new weaponry.

    The modus operanti never gets old. The military industrial complex has more than enough money to wage propaganda campaigns via the mainstream media, and buy off corrupt politicians in Congress to give them trillions after trillions in outrageously priced products and services.

    That’s why they have been funding Mitt Romney and his ilk, while sabotaging Ron Paul, even if it means flagrant fraud.

    • The only trillions going out the window is for the elderly, welfare queens and future Obama Voterz of America. The elephant in the room. Compared to this, defense spending is a teddy bear.

      • passingby

        That’s a lie. First of all, the US government set up the Social Security program a long time ago for retirees and has been taking contributions to the program. When incoming funds outpaced outgoing payments, the US government had the audacity of secretly transferred the surplus meant for future payments to fund its federal budget deficits, mostly on ultra-expensive criminal military operations around the world and ultra-expensive weaponry. Now the baby-boomer generation will not be getting the SS payments the government promised because there is not sufficient fund in the account to pay them. You have no clue what is going on inside the US government. Obama, Clinton, GW Bush, GH Bush, Reagan, … they are all puppets of the military industrial complex. Same for the new crop of wannabe presidents – Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, Santorum, Newt Gingrich, Buchmann, Palin, … they are all scums. Ron Paul is the only Rep. candidate showing some wisdom, conscience and backbone.

        • crackedlenses

          Yup; the evil military is out to take over the world, just like in Avatar. Tremble in fear and vote for Ron Paul, ye cynics of the world!……

  • passingby

    edit: middle paragraph – and buy off corrupt politicians in Congress to give them trillions after trillions in exchange for outrageously priced products and services.

  • PolicyWonk

    The Editors of Proceedings, Defense Weekly., and Av Week published an editorial years ago foreseeing problems like this. They were imploring the Reagan Administration to restore educational funding, student loans, and Pell Grant programs. Without our own (American) educated students, we would be reliant on outsiders to procure, manage, and design these complex systems. They all considered it to be a matter of national security, and now we get to reap the rewards (if you can call it that) of an uneducated society. If you think education is expensive: try ignorance.

  • SlumLord

    I was in a unclassified JSF briefing in April 2008 where I later found out that the info presented was classified. I sent a “challenge” notice through my security bubbas.
    The response back was effectively, “We are JSF, we can do what we want. F. U..”

  • duuude

    Lockheed Martin is either making a scapegoat out of China because it cannot manage this project’s costs anymore, or it is actually in cahoots with our soon to be Oriental overlords in bankrupting Uncle Sam. Either way, make LM pay!!!

    • Riceball

      Asian, not Oriental. Oriental is a type of rug, not a people.

    • passingby

      Lockheed Martin IS part of the US government, just like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. They make taxpayers pay. Not the other way around.

  • Robert

    China is evil and our enemy. War will come. God help us. We will need every nuke we have to scrub this garage from the earth.

    • Thomas L. Nielsen

      “War will come” – it will with that attitude, certainly.

      “God help us” – the Chinese have gods too, you know. Just sayin’.

      “We will need every nuke we have to scrub this garage from the earth” – Garage? You’re proposing to nuke sombody’s garage?

      Regards & all,

      Thomas L. Nielsen

  • Olrik

    You have no money for new airplanes anyways, so don’t worry, at least somebody is using the technology…

    • passingby

      China is funding America’s military programs, literally. It’s doing so by purchasing / holding over 1 trillion US govt debt.

      China should smarten up and start dumping the US treasuries while the dollar is still worth something, and at the same time pave way for demanding payments for its exports in RMB instead of USD.

      • STemplar

        Except that would be the completely wrong thing for China to do. They would cut their own throat economically. Their economy is export driven and driving up the value of your own native currency would be just about the dumbest thing a nation could do.

        China isn’t plowing trillions into US securities to control the US, they are doing it to help keep their own currency artificially low. If the US gets its spending habits under control China is in big trouble on the world trade scene. They won’t have anywhere to plow their currency reserves. It’s a big question whether the Euro is going to even survive so that leaves them essentially no choice.

        • passingby

          China’s economy used to be heavily export-driven. But transition to a strong domestically driven economy has been in the works for over a decade. While it’s hard to say how much of a success China has achieved so far, the direction has been very clear. Now China is getting close, or has already reached the stage where decoupling from the US should start in full force. In fact China is already doing it. And it’s not just China. Russia, Brazil, India, South East Asia, South America and parts of the Middle East (notably Iran) are doing it.

        • passingby

          cont’d – The US doesn’t have the money to buy China’s stuff – China is lending US the money. All China needs to do is to stop lending money to the US and redirect surplus production inward. Right now China is getting soon-to-be-worthless pieces of paper from the US in exchange for its export of real products. In the process China accumulates soon-to-be-worthless dollars and recycles them back to US treasuries to fund China’s own encirclement. It’s a bad deal. Once you understand the big picture, everything the US is doing will make sense. But first you will have to ween yourself off the US mainstream media – it’s nothing but a propaganda apparatus of Wall Street banksters and military industrial complex vampires.

          • STemplar

            China already has redirected inward, that’s how they artificially maintained growth through the recession by pouring billions into infrastructure projects they had no use for. Problem is that can’t be maintained.

            In addition China isn’t weening itself off of anything, it never has and still won’t allow its currency to be floated on the international markets, all part of keeping the value down to drive down export costs.

            In addition they just lost a WTO appeal in that they were artificially monkeying with mineral exports to drive prices down domestically, to again, make manufacturing for export cheaper.

            You’re completely wrong on China and what it is doing with its economy, plus I don’t even know why I bothered posting all this when I read your moon landing conspiracy comment. You have a nice time here, this will be my last post to you.

          • passingby

            Here is your problem. You recite what you have been fed by the mainstream media without thinking for yourself. You don’t look at the evidence to the contrary, even when some it has been available from the mainstream media.

            China’s infrastructure spending doesn’t constitute inward redirection of surplus production. It’s part of a necessary long term program to build efficient mass transportation of goods and materials between coastal areas and central China.

            Chinese central bank governor has laid out a timetable for a fully convertible RMB – 2015. In addition, China is establishing bilateral currency swap agreements as well as bilateral trade-in-local-currency agreements with trading partners, in effect paving the way for eliminating US dollar in the process.

            The biggest currency manipulator in the world is the US – it’s printing Trillions out of thin air. That’s precisely why so many countries are openly advocating a move away from the dollar. It’s also why the US is instigating conflicts in the Middle East to create excuses for military invasions to control ME oil fields and maintain its petro-dollar hegemony.

            You are obviously not trained in a science or technical field so I’m not going to discuss manned moon landing hoax based on evidence and logical inference.

            Don’t be so conceited about your (false) knowledge about economics. As I said, until you ween yourself off the mainstream media, no real understanding of the world is possible.

  • B Fawbush

    Why dont they justeet face to face/ Robert DeNiro prefered it in GoodFellas so people didnt WIRE INTO THEIR CONVERATIONS. we should be having face to face meetings about this top secret stuff until we get our cyber security up to requirements

  • itfunk

    Blaming the Chinese now for fundamental design flaws – it’s beyond laughable its just pathetic.

  • kim

    Somehow I do miss military personnel commenting more in this forum. When occasionally they identify themselves as such, it’s hard not to notice how the the quality of the comment is above average (including – notably – the spelling). Reading the comments from all the armchair warriors below is often a challenge, though.

    • blight

      The fault lies with the deterioration of the public education system. I imagine the quality of the posts probably correlates with age and education moreso than vet/non-vet; which is in turn biased because less than a percent of the population even serves in the first place, raising the quandary of whether or not 1% of the population can be a representative sample.

  • Infidel4LIFE

    We should slap a huge tariff on all their export goods they are killing us in every area and not many seem to care. The JSF will be a helluva warplane..one day. Disgrace.

    • Dfens

      I agree with you on the tariffs, but not on the F-35. The only version worth keeping is the VTOL version, which will probably be the first one cancelled. Even it has some fundamental problems like you don’t want to be sitting in the pilot’s seat when that lift fan explodes and cuts you into top and bottom halves.

      • crackedlenses

        Kind of like being afraid of the wings on your F-14 shearing off during a dog fight? (OK I’m stumping for a fight ;)……….

        • Dfens

          If you compare the rate at which wings fail in flight to the rate at which compressor disks experience uncontained rupture, you’ll find that the latter happens several orders of magnitude more often. Not surprisingly, (to me, at least) the F-35 program has gone through considerable trouble to mitigate the effects of that particular failure mode. I was surprised that there was not sufficient ballistic armor around the pilot for this not to be a problem, especially given the roll the F-35 is supposed to have as an attack asset. Given the lack of armor, I’d at least have expected them to put the fan at the bottom of the fuselage duct, which they also did not do.

          • passingby

            Why bother? If the F-35 proceeds to serial production and are actually used in a war, its pilots will be getting killed long before any part of the compressor assembly has enough time to develop fatigue or wear.

            The F-35 will most likely be a single-trip “strike fighter” if used against China or Russia or N Korea …

          • Dfens

            I’m used to assuming the pilot lives. Sometimes it’s hard to shake those old ways of thinking, even when confronted with over whelming facts to the contrary.

          • blight

            Been a while since pilots were getting blown out of the sky left and right. Vietnam?

          • passingby

            The bottom line of the military industrial complex is Profit, not Preservation of human lives.

            Larger loss of human lives ==> Larger scale of war ==> Larger government spending on weapons ==> Larger profits for the death merchants.

            If you have time and like to read great novels or stories, I highly recommend that you dig up stories about a secret meeting on Jekyll Island, Georgia, in 1910. (google will suffice) Keep an open mind and trace the events to 1913 (how the Federal Reserve Act was passed). From there, either move down the timeline or back up to the presidency of Andrew Jackson and his duel with shadow powers to establish a central bank. Then move on to Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy and their actions related to central banking. Similarly for Sen. Louis McFadden, President Woodrow Wilson (and his words of regret). Read Michael Hudson, Paul Craig Roberts, Peter Schiff, and watch/read Marc Faber, Gerald Celente, and Max Keiser (RT.com)

            It took me at least 7 years of reading (avg 1-2 hours a day on this particular subject though I tended to branch out somewhat from time to time) to get the big picture of the real power center and structure of the United States. But it was entertaining as well as enlightening.

            You will be thrilled that you did. I recommend that you try to get the picture in 3 or 4 years. As time is kind of a big issue – money related.

  • Thomas L. Nielsen

    “You’re trying to branch out further by taking on manned lunar landing.”
    I’m trying to branch out? It surely has not escaped your vastly superior intellect that in your post above (1 day ago by this time) you initially brought up your belief in a moon landing hoax. What we have done since then is simply refer back to this original statement.

    Regards & all,

    Thomas L. Nielsen

  • CristoCano

    Its not so hard to incorporate a tight security framework into these projects from the very beginning. This is an expensive lesson painfully learned. Hopefully from now on, any new technology and systems developed in the future will have cyber espionage countermeasures in place at every level.

    • blight_

      Considering even Verisign, one of the first names in internet security was cracked; it suggests that simply slapping on more “espionage countermeasures” is not a magic panacea. It’s more about policing our external security, more than putting in security on every level. It’s cost and time prohibitive.

  • Hi there, You’ve done an excellent job. I will certainly digg it and individually recommend to my friends. I am confident they will be benefited from this site.

  • javanaut

    That’s why I am going to be a math teacher. If it kills me. I will not let them drain the joy from this beautiful subject, and our kids deserve to be treated as human beings, each with their own unique talents, and yes, creative genius.

  • katy used cars

    Do not look at Katy used cars until you see this review. We help you find the best dealerships for Katy used cars and ensure that you get the top car for your needs

  • Hello friends, its wonderful post concerning tutoringand completely defined, keep it up all the time.

  • My spouse and I stumbled over here from a different web address and thought I should check things
    out. I like what I see so now i’m following you. Look forward to looking at your web page repeatedly.

  • If some one wishes to be updated with hottest technologies after that
    he must be go to see this web page and be up to date

  • Nice and cool post. Thanks for sharing.