China’s Second Stealth Fighter Flies

China’s second J-20 stealth fighter has officially taken to the skies, making China the third nation after the United States and Russia to operate multiple stealth aircraft (to be fair, only the U.S. has an operational fleet of stealth jets, China and Russia have only two prototypes apiece).

  • Tom Thomas

    Guess we shouldn’t have China make the parts for us.

  • vok

    Well, guess we shouldn’t let China into WTO. Even further, Nixon shouldn’t open diplomatic door to Chairman Mao. In retrospect, that was a dumb decision. The Soviets would self destruct anyway, with or without a Sino-American axis. Then again, back then who would imagine China is displacing US as the top dog.

    • Sgt_Buffy

      They haven’t replaced the US yet, and won’t for another few generations I suppose. But we cannot be eternally top dog, things like this go in sine waves. America will always be a nation to contend with, but with the rate of job exportation, I don’t know. As for me? I buy American. (oh, except for this computer and motorcycle, both Asian Products.) Once we get our government untangled we’ll regain our top status. I’m no anti-governmental, but it’s pretty hard to get something done in our government, and it’s neigh on impossible to manufacture cheap goods. American products are on average 10% more expensive, and from experience, 40% more reliable. I am interested to see where this J-20 stands in reliability in the long run.

      • justsaying

        In my experience American made products have been poorly engineered and fail more frequently than their overseas counterparts.

        • Richard S

          Damn iPhone……wait

          • Chris B

            IPhone is Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese and Korean technology.

          • blight_

            And Chinese assembly. And “Designed in California” to placate the silly customers.

        • Sgt_Buffy

          It depends on where you get it, or how. American tools and machined equipment is often stronger than their Chinese counterpart, but electronics often are more durable when built in China, mainly because they have more experience with that kind of thing. Bicycles, tools, knives, hunting rifles, hardware (esp. screws) basically anything involving steel or metals (including the Victory series motorcycles) are all noticeably better quality than their counterpart. (I don’t know about Victory, I just heard they are manufactured in the US.)

          • tiger

            Flag waving BS.

      • Ken

        I dont know where you get the idea or stats of American made products cost 10% more while it is 40% more reliable. The reliability, i got no source so i wont touch it, but the cost its not that simple. If on average american made products cost 10% more, I dont think companies like Apple would mind producing them in the US. As far as i know, a manufacturer worker at a Foxconn plant that produce the iPhone for Apple, their average salary is about 250-300USD per month. If the plant was to be in the US, each employee would make at least 1200USD per month. Thats already 4X the salary of the Chinese labors, and 4X means 400% more not 10% or any 2-digit percentage.

        • Ken

          Also, when we talk about economics, we tend to only observe the negative part of jobs outsourcing and think that we’re on the doom. But a lot of people fail to realize that its a trade off. We trade some jobs for lower cost products, thus, increasing our consumption with the money we have, raising our living standard. If the iPhone were to be made in the US, each would cost 1500USD, how many Americans would be able to afford it? Also, we no longer dominate the hardware production industry, but a new software and IT industry emerged that dominates the world. phones come from various manufacturers of different countries, but its operating systems (iOS, Android, Windows Mobile) all USA, isnt that more critical? Even for a computer, Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX pretty much dominate the billion of computers in this world too right? So there are stuffs that we do produce and provide it to all of the world with no competition. Dont be too pessimistic about the unskilled jobs outsourcing.

          • Haha

            I somewhat disagree with you.
            Read Clayton Christiansen’s book, “The Innovator’s Dilemma”. It explains the danger of outsourcing. When you lose manufacturing you lose the innovation that goes with it. The vast majority of innovation occurs on the factory floor where the engineer is trying to solve a practical problem or increase efficiency. You don’t have that sitting in an ivory tower trying to innovate on a blackboard.

          • Ken

            You tell Clayton Christiansen to go to China Foxconn’s factory plant and visit that shit on his/her own. And see if those manufacturing can really lead to innovations, LMAO. The NY Times pointed out that because of the assembly line, a lot of workers’ hands and fingers got fucked up because they keep on doing the same stuffs over and over for a million times. Factory work is not like what you think, 1 person assembled a whole car. Its basically you do 1 part n pass it on, then repeat that. They dont even make enough to live a standard life, and your’re saying its more innovative in those factory than Apple, Cupertino, CA?

          • Tienong

            Making hi-tech stuffs required hi-tech equipment and know-how technology. If you want to manufacture something in China, you are forced (by Chinese government policy) to transfer technology know-how to the Chinese. Look at AirBus situation then you know.
            Don’t make high tech toys in China, let them just make the plastic toys only and go someplace else like India, Mexico, Vietnam… Problem solved.

          • cs4

            And you think those and other countries does not require technology transfers?

          • Sgt_Buffy

            I stated above, we suck at making electronics, probably for that very reason in that it is too expensive. But I was stating explicitly hardware, metals and the like. I and I’m not saying we dominate any industry. I was stating, that from my own personal self-absorbed experience limited to the tools that I use with my own job, the American made tools A) fit better and that their other metal products (Bicycles, knives, hardware, braces, building material etc.) B) Last longer, and the percentage is about (read: +/- many %’s) 10% more expensive but 40% more durable. These are not specific numbers, they are from my personal experience. But I agree in that electronics is not our department.

          • passingby

            Sgt Buffy, the most important tool Americans use today is the car. It’s hardware, and made of metal. Would you claim that American cars are 10 pct more expensive but 40 pct more durable than Japanese or German cars? As far as I know, most Americans prefer Honda, Benz, Toyota to any American car, despite their higher prices.

          • tiger

            The idea quality is based on nationality is silly. Everybody can use a ruler & some calipers. A CNC machine in the Detroit, does not cut any bettter than a CNC machine across the river in Windsor, Ont.

    • tiger

      That is silly. The Opening of China Along with ending Vietnam will be one of Nixon’s better ideas. The Idea the world would be better today as it was 40 years ago is just stupid. As for the US being “top dog?” Empires rise & fall. The Spainish, the Dutch, the Romans, the Greeks, Carthage, the Vikings, The Ottomans, Austria Hungary, etc. have all had their moments in time. Even The land I’m on now, used to be New Sweden back in the day. Times change.

  • Stratege

    Russia have three prototypes. And the fourth is coming.

    • passingby

      The US has 180+ prototypes. How about that?

  • Marcellus Hambrick

    As more and more of funding goes for social programs in the US less and less will go to defense. China will pass us militarily before 2025.

    • Richard S

      They are still 20 years behind us technology wise. And for them to make an impact they need a Navy and it would take them 20 years to get one to match the numbers of ours, way longer to match the effectiveness

    • Anonymous

      “As more and more of funding goes for social programs”

      Yes, because the almost doubling of defense spending in the past 10 years is clearly “less going to defense”.

      Unless you’re talking social welfare to the Military Industrial Complex - then you’re right! More money to the social programs.

      • Skyepapa

        The Weekly Standard has a front page story today where they show Hambrick (commenter above) is right — and they do it using NPR data. Ha! And also, defense spending has in no way doubled in the last ten years.

        Here’s the link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/why-we-re-157…

        • Anonymous

          In 2000 (inflation adjusted, not including interest), about $500 billion was to defense spending. Now it’s around $1000 billion. And Bushy didn’t even include Iraq and Afghanistan in the defense spending bills - it was separate.

          So, yes, doubled. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thu…

        • Anonymous

          In 2000 (inflation adjusted, not including interest), about $500 billion was to defense spending. Now it’s around $1000 billion. And Bushy didn’t even include Iraq and Afghanistan in the defense spending bills - it was separate.

          So, yes, doubled. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thu…

          • Skyepapa

            Um, wiki? Try something more reputable: http://www.sipri.org/research/armaments/milex/fac…

            And this does include both wars non-DOD defense transfers.

            All told, including both wars, it’s 81%

    • Haha

      The defense dept has had its pork for the last ten years — borrowed from China. We pissed it down a dark piehole in Iraq remember? Now the socialist welfare MIC still want more more more.

      • Dfens

        Remember the military-industrial complex rally cry: Sure you can buy better, but you just can’t pay more!

  • hsatpft

    The J-20 is said to be evidence that China is closing the technological gap. Not saying that China is not. But the J-20 program is about where the F-22 program was in 1998. And there’s no way to be sure how the 2 machines compare at this point.

    • Tom

      The J-20 program is about where the F-117 was in 1977.

    • KSK

      J-20 is at a very nascent stage … in 1998 F-22 had all the sensors built into it.
      J-20 right now is an empty tin…it will take a decade to fine tune it and its shape may also vary.
      chini lack skill many critical passive n active sensors which define the 5th generation characteristics…
      AESA Radar,IRST and the engine ..developing these individually will be a challenge on its own .

  • Sgt_Buffy

    On second thought, why are we so concerned about keeping this “technological gap”? Where’s the finish line?

    • Skyepapa

      You make a good point. Maybe we should just relax, let China’s consumer market grow, let the dollar devalue against the ren, start stealing more tech (b/c we already like to steal a little), reinvigorate our manufacturing base with cheap rural-migrant labor, and eventually just swap places with China. I’m not being sarcastic either. Sometimes it’s a hell of a lot cheaper to be second. And marginally, second ain’t that bad.

  • Lance

    Not surprised we had 2 F-22A test beds but it took 15 years for them to enter service. Not worried or impressed.

  • Black Owl

    The Russians are farther ahead than the Chinese right now. The PAK-FA is supposed to enter service in the Russian Air Force in 2016 and the F-35 in 2019. The J-20 might enter service in 2025 or around that time. Overall, the Chinese are still far behind us and Russia in terms of fighters, despite the later experiencing the Soviet collapse. If we stopped funding the bottomless pit that is the F-35 and used our current money to buy the still capable 4.5 gen fighters while funding a 6th gen fighter then we could continue to advance past then and keep our capability at the same time.

    • 4FingerOfBourbon

      Again. Really. Man you hate ‘Merica…

      • Black Owl

        Are you serious? Just because I’m against the F-35 I hate America? If that’s your reasoning then I seriously fear for the safety of this nation that people like you exist in it. The F-35 has sucked up enough money to fight a full scale war for two years and it hasn’t produced a product up to the services standards. It is the MOST expensive weapons system in the history of man kind and yet the F-35C still can’t land on a carrier, the F-35B still breaks apart when it flies vertically, and all of the varients can’t exceed mach speed without extensive damage to the sensative materials used for stealth. The DAS is still not up to speck and blurs when the pilot turns his head fast. This aircraft is useless to us here in the services until we get it fixed and the cost of getting it fixed and then procuring and using it is almost just as much as building a new fighter from scratch. If all you can give me is a false accusation, then you really don’t have a good excuse as to why we shouldn’t scrap the F-35.

      • Black Owl

        If all you can give me is a false accusation, then you really don’t have a good argument as to why we shouldn’t scrap the F-35 and proceed to buy Super Hornets and pursue a 6th gen fighter.

  • Hunter76

    America makes the Windows operating system, and as a result our computers are highly vulnerable.

    • Prodozul

      Or maybe pc’s are the dominant system. Therefore they’re vulnerable

    • tiger

      So be a MAC OSX user and drop Winblows…….

  • J Hughes

    Still not sure if its true Gen 5. Gonna say its more like Gen 4.75

  • Speedy

    Is it just me, or does the plan look like it was designed by kids?

    American and Russian planes, “Look” dangerous. They look like they go fast and have a dangerous end and a hot noisy end.

    This Chinese plane just looks wrong to me. (And I still think it looks too big to be a fighter)

  • Pat

    Now fly the 3rd and 4th and then have to crash land the 5th… Once they get there…

  • Dfens

    Garver admitted to being “very excited” about the launch, which will usher in a new era of space travel for the U.S., one in which private companies design and build NASA’s spacecraft, with the agency acting as just a single customer. With the current launch, SpaceX supplied the entire rocket, from its Merlin engines up.

    NASA has been forced to use suppliers that design and test rockets investing their own money, not stealing the US taxpayer’s money at gun point and using those funds. And what has this highly risky approach of using capitalism done for NASA? It has signficantly reduced their launch costs, even more than using socialist built rockets from Russia. What will the US Air Force take from this lesson? They’ll try to do a better job with their F-35 propaganda so they aren’t forced to use sound capitalist principles in the way they buy their small, single engine, fighter jets.

    • Dfens

      An amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on American audiences is being inserted into the latest defense authorization bill, BuzzFeed has learned.

      The amendment would “strike the current ban on domestic dissemination” of propaganda material produced by the State Department and the Pentagon, according to the summary of the law at the House Rules Committee’s official website. — http://www.buzzfeed.com/mhastings/congressmen-see…

      And you thought I was kidding about the propaganda!

      • Dfens

        What does Defense Tech have to fear from the news of a capitalist success story like Space-X?

        • Dfens

          http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20679…

          The SpaceX launch was successful.

  • xrayrick

    I wonder if the J-20’s oxygen delivery systems works? If so let’s steal it from them and put it in the F-22 LOL

  • Richard

    We had worry more about who is feeding our technolgy to our enemy.

  • JohnsonX

    Hi, dear everyone. I’m a financial college student from Southwest China. I’d like to say China is not an enemy of the US. She doesn’t want to be, nor does she has this

    capability. Compared wih America, China is more peacefully behaved, she develops its military power to keep up with the world just want to protect its territory from being occupied by other countries. Americans have no need to be worried by its military progress, we are a large country at least, shouldn’t we improve our military power to protect our world’s third vastest land beneath us?

    In China actually no one regards American as you called “enemy”, so is the case with PLA from soldiers to generals, I know this because there always are some speachs given by PLA generals on out campus.Our real problem is: we have more than countless domestic problems to deal with.

    My dear American counterparts, China is not the nation as you think of in its 1970s or1980s.The CCP surely is governing China, but it’s not as it was before, and you can never regard China as a aggressive nation as it was decades ago. Though you think the Chinese government is autocratic, but its polices now are more influenced by the public in many ways. We Chinese people certainly need to go against the government in some aspects like human rights, corruption, one child policy, but we don’t want to wage revolution immediately as the Chinese people have suffered enough from its long and hard historical river of thousands of years more than Americans did. We prefer peaceful solutions with every dispute, and Chinese in this new era are more willing to make friends with others all across the globe. I am a patriot and also I love America cause it is a great nation,too. I can assure you most of the Chinese young people concieve the same opinion as mine.

    Hope the world a peaceful future. Looking foward for your replies.

    • cs4

      Sorry man, what you say will definitely fall on deaf ears.

      America has its problems, but won’t acknowledge them without playing the blame game, and the easiest one to blame is China. No cash, no jobs, no hope and the cause? China. They are willing to sit on their laurels with their fat ass and when you went pass them, they’ll say you are not competing fairly even if they have the advantage.

      I’m pretty sure you have read most if not all the response, and lots of them trumpets their weapons systems are superior and are very eager to use them, but most of them never experienced the horrors of war, a fight to survive as a nation.

    • KSK

      Dont be delusional , u saying china is a peace loving nation is comical.
      Look a the way in which ur govn treats the issue with south china sea…it thinks that it can bully smaller nations but phillipines were not afraid to standup against china.
      and ur peoples daily paper always endorses war and violence…read wat it wrote recently against phillipines.

      and ur country proliferated nuclear missile technology to a rogue failed nation like pak which inturn shared the tech with north korea and iran who are now threatening regional stability at various parts of the world.

      world may after sometime may fear you but u will never earn the respect of other nations except your esteemed allies in the region.
      I dont have anything against chinese people but ur govn and its policies are selfish and troublesome.

      • tiger

        Many in the world say the same about the USA…… People have been Shouting “Yankee go home,” for a Century.

    • PMI

      China’s preference for peaceful solutions has resulted in armed conflicts with Russia, India & Vietnam and the invasions of Xinjiang & Tibet.

      • cs4

        And America settled peacefully with Korea, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran? Oh I forgot, some of them are ruled by very bad people, people who are formerly supported by the ole US of A.

    • Tienong

      How nice you said the Chinese people are? How the Chinese love peace? Every countries have border with China have problems with the Chinese. Have you read the news lately?

    • Tienong

      By the way, I forgot to mention: The Chinese’s backed the Pol Pot regime in the 70’s killed million PEACEFUL Cambodia people.

  • Df-41

    For all America’s boasting about technological superiority, the last 2 times the Chinese and the Americans were at war, the Chinese made a total mockery of the American military in Korean war and Vietnam war. America likes to talk a big talk but fire blanks when it comes to winning a war. Americans can win a battle here or there but winning wars against china is something Americans are not good enough to do.

    Not only America but china utterly humiliated India in 1962, to this day the Indians are living in paranoia over that a$$kicking in 1962. The shanghai police force could embarrass the Indian army.

    China has achieved every strategic objective of every war since the CPC came into power.

    Han Chinese know how to win wars, when the japanese invaded china it was the communist Chinese that drove back the Japanese army, the KMT was useless.

    America will never beat china in war, the way china and America fight wars are different. Chinese are used to fighting and winning against superior tech militaries. Sun Tzu taught the Chinese that.

    Never ever underestimate the Chinese at anything.

  • Carter

    For all America’s boasting about technological superiority, the last 2 times the Chinese and the Americans were at war, the Chinese made a total mockery of the American military in Korean war and Vietnam war. America likes to talk a big talk but fire blanks when it comes to winning a war. Americans can win a battle here or there but winning wars against china is something Americans are not good enough to do.

    Not only America but china utterly humiliated India in 1962, to this day the Indians are living in paranoia over that whipping in 1962. The shanghai police force could embarrass the Indian army.

    China has achieved every strategic objective of every war since the CPC came into power.

    Han Chinese know how to win wars, when the japanese invaded china it was the communist Chinese that drove back the Japanese army, the KMT was useless.

    America will never beat china in war, the way china and America fight wars are different. Chinese are used to fighting and winning against superior tech militaries. Sun Tzu taught the Chinese that.

    Never ever underestimate the Chinese at anything.

  • Mac

    China is more peacefully behaved

    • Tienong

      Wrong! very wrong.

  • Matt Sturgeon

    That thing looks like shiite muslims after a drone strike.

  • Mikeldy

    If China should ever have designs on dominating /dictating to its #1 trading partner (the US) they should remember that we own them in Blue Water Ops and we might be forced to control the flow of shipping worldwide. It’s time to slap their greedy hands by chocking off the world’s supply of goods. They need to suffer a little. All the advances of mankind are being undone by China. We need to make China grow up. We can start by making their shipped goods unavailable or too expensive for anyone to buy. Act like a responsible nation before we are forced to make you do it. If we are doomed to fail as the US then I say we make the shutdown of all global trade our final act as a country. What a horrible Third-World mess you will become if you don’t learn to respect your people and stop treating the US as your next meal. When China becomes the #1 power the world will be devastated when they realize that their new “guardian” is an imoral and mindless overlord. They will cry for the return of the US.

  • AgentRiot

    Chinese Government is so greedy trying to own the entire west Philippine sea, they dont respect international law, they bully other small nation, India has a new Nuke now that can reach every corner of China, if you are gonna base your boarders using historical info their will be no China but an over sized Mongolia because they owned you back then

  • One World

    Where in the world is West Philippine Sea? Never heard of that.. But then again, who cares?

  • johnysmith

    As general aviation in the United States slides further into apathy China has discovered how useful a network of general aviation facilities. Is the Future of General Aviation in China?
    http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/4fa177f5c6f8fa…