Turkish RF-4E Recce Jet Down Near Syria (updated)

Well, this is interesting. A Turkish RF-4E Phantom photo-reconnaissance fighter has apparently gone missing near Turkey’s border with Syria on the Mediterranean coast. RUMINT is spreading that the jet was shot down by Syrian government forces.

UPDATE: Reports are emerging saying the jet was indeed shot down by Syrian forces.

While the BBC is reporting that it was an F-4 Phantom that went down, it should be noted that the Turkish air force only fies the RF-4E recce version of the legendary — and ancient — fighter.

Remember, Turkey is a NATO state and members of the alliance are already providing aide to the Syrian rebels, (including the U.S., the CIA is apparently shipping them weapons).

This RF-4E could well have been gathering intel on Assad’s troops when it was shot down.

It’s also worth asking if this will warrant a heavier intervention by NATO forces on behalf of the rebels?

Here’s what the BBC is reporting.

 

Turkey’s government has called an emergency security meeting amid reports that one of its fighter jets was shot down by Syrian security forces.

The F-4 Phantom disappeared over the Mediterranean, south-west of Hatay province, not far from Syria’s coast.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was initially quoted as saying: “The other side have expressed regret”.

Later he could not confirm what brought the jet down but said rescue teams were searching for the crew.

“Regarding our pilots, we do not have any information, but at the moment four of our gunboats and some Syrian gunboats are carrying out a joint search there,” he said.

Relations between Turkey and Syria, once close allies, have deteriorated sharply since the uprising against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad began in March 2011.

The Turkish military said it lost radio contact with the F-4 at 1158 (0858 GMT) on Friday while it was flying over Hatay, about 90 minutes after it took off from Erhac airbase in the province of Malatya, to the north-west.

The private news channel, NTV, later cited unnamed military sources as saying that the plane had crashed off Hatay’s Mediterranean coast, in Syrian territorial waters, but that there had been no border violation.

The Syrian coast guard was helping the Turkish coast guard, navy and air force search for the two crew members and the plane, NTV reported.

Witnesses in the Syrian coastal city of Latakia meanwhile told BBC Arabic that Syrian air defences had shot down an unidentified aircraft near the town of Ras al-Basit.

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  • SPIROS XAGORARIS

    The Turkish airforce flies also a modified versio of F-4E (F-4E 2020 Terminator).

    • Nicky

      That’s what I like about F-4’s they are so reliable and rugged. The US Should have kept them for CONUS Guard Duty and keep the RF-4E as a tactical ISR bird

      • USSHelm

        Yeah, but in a dogfight they aren’t worth the JP-7 in ’em.

        • SJE

          So? You also aren’t going to do a dogfight in other recon aircraft.

  • kski

    At least it was thiers and not ours. But it would have been better in the long run because it could single to the public that military action in the form of a couple of carrier, amphibious and expeditionary strike groups to be sent to the area to really start overthrowing the regime. Why do you think we spend billions on global capabilities. It makes absolute sense to take action were the navy with tools and know how and were already in the area!

    • DCP

      Because what we really need right now is a protracted land campaign in Syria. We spend trillions on defense so hopefully we don’t have to flex our muscle but can if needed. We don’t spend trillions on defense just to show off and wave our dick around “because we can”.

      I fail to see the strategic interest for the US in engaging in a protracted land campaign in Syria. That’s not to discount the humanitarian reasons, however strictly from a geo-political standpoint it makes no strategic sense. Invading/no fly zoning Syria is different from Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The Russians and the Iranians can’t afford to let their biggest Mideast domino fall and won’t sit idly by.

      • blight_

        If Iraq goes into the pot, Syria would be nice to have. However, we are unlikely to “have” Syria just because we depose Assad. If anything, it would bring back the UAR; and back then the members were Iraq, Syria and Egypt. Sound familiar today?

      • tiger

        What is this “we” stuff? Syria is not our affair And we have ducked it for a year.

    • Cuneyt

      You mother fuckers why don’t you move you badasses and come directly Turkiye for war! We are real warriors not trilloners.

      • Ian

        I haven’t seen Arab warriors yet…..seriousy…

        • Pen_Par

          Ian, honestly, Turkey is not an Arab country. I know how screwed up some of you (not all of you) Americans can be when it comes to geography and common sense, but if that’s what you lack then perhaps it’s for the best to re-evaluate your position before making comments that are only going to backfire a bit later?

          Now Cuneyt, Turkey isn’t interested in a war with Syria. Turkey can invoke Article 5, and have NATO swarming in, but then what? We’ll have World War III in our hands. If NATO moves in, Russia, China and Iran will be swarming into Syria. It’s highly likely that other Gulf countries (this means the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and other Arab countries) will be moving in, and adding to the conflict.

          I personally currently live in Turkey, and while am not fund of Turkey (because of personal reasons), I dare say that the Turks have taken the best course of action at this time. It would be a massacre if Syria isn’t handled diplomatically. And I’m personally one who is absolutely against Syria’s current bloodshed, and would support anything that would end the current pitiful government residing in Syria.

      • Woody

        Wow …big talk from a 3rd century *******….be careful what you wish for, you just might get it….Arabs only know how to hide in the shadows and use women and children as sheilds…..go martyr yourself and do us all a favor….Achmed…..

    • Sarek T’pel

      because this kind of discussion I always conclude:
      There is not evil bigger than USA and NATO in world.
      Always using some excuse to invade some country…Always.

      • majr0d

        You’re an idiot. Here we are supporting Turkey and you’re whining. Incredible.

        Oh yeah NATO (and the US) was real bad keeping the Soviets out of your country for half a century. Stationing nukes and spy flights from your country was only to help the bad guys.

        How soon they forget…

  • Lance

    I agree the F-4 is Turkeys main heavy fighter. I do think possible the Syrians mad from yesterdays defection shot a RF-4 for being near Syrian air space. Who know now??

    • ziv

      I think they have around 240 F-16’s, and less than 160 F-4’s.

      • Lance

        Yes but the F-16 is Turkeys light fighter to supplement the F-5. the F-4 is there heavy fighter. Most of there F-4s are interceptors or recon planes.

        • Can D

          Turkey no longer flies F5. F16 is the main interceptor for almost a decade now. Other then the IAI upgraded F4-2020 Terminators only RF4s are being operationaly flown. Rest are training, retired or picked.

    • Nicky

      You gotta luv the F-4, It keeps going even in the face of 4th, 5th and 6th gen fighters. I would have kept the F-4Es for CONUS duty or even kept the RF-4E for ISR duty or even bring back the F-4G for wild weasel duty. It’s a rugged, reliable and combat proven bird. It’s the “World’s Leading Distributor of MiG Parts” it’s also known for “the triumph of thrust over aerodynamics.”

  • Benjamin

    Hope the pilots are still alive.
    I hope the Syrians were not dumb enough to risk a conflict with Turkey. Turkey alone could whoop there butts. With minimal NATO help it would be a route.

    • ziv

      It sounds like both pilots were rescued, no word by whom.

      • ziv

        Half an hour later, the Telegraph is still the only news source that has Turkish officials saying the pilots are ok. I hope they are right.

    • tiger

      NATO has enough on it’s plate now. No thanks….

    • Pen_Par

      Turkey can, but then would have to risk dragging Russia, Iran and China into the conflict. If that happens, the rest of NATO joins in, and then the Arab countries rush in to protect their interests. In the end, you get WWIII at your hands.

      • STemplar

        Russia and China talk big S, but the Russians do not have the means nor do the Chinese to deploy beyond their own borders in any significant fashion or for a protracted time frame. They do not come within a mile of the logistical capability of the US, let alone NATO combined.

  • dfor

    I wonder whether or how NATO’s Article 5 would apply here…

    • Sarek T’pel

      because this kind of discussion in americans foruns, I always conclude:
      There is not evil bigger than USA and NATO in world.
      Always using some excuse to invade some country…Always.

      • majr0d

        ROFLMAO. Same guy will be asking, “Where’s the US?” when his dictator starts abusing him or he gets invaded by some other country.

        • jose

          The US probably put the abusing dictator in power …

          • majr0d

            Another “blame America first” clown.

        • Sarek T’pel

          No.
          We never asked for your intervention.
          Stay inside your country and shut up. Let the rest of the world on peace!

          • STemplar

            Is there peace in Syria? Hadn’t noticed lately.

          • Benjamin

            Syria is burning right now. How is that peace? Only seems to be death, destruction and corruption to me.

          • majr0d

            Sarek – What country are you in? Who’s talking intervention? You sound like a very nervous Syrian.

      • Benjamin

        Logic allows you to act in defense of yourselves and your allies. This is not acting aggressively but acting in your own defense. Treaties like that which formed NATO are meant to deter other countries from attacking the member nations. Turkey is a member of NATO as is the U.S. and most western European nations.
        There is no bigger evil then those who would betray there friends and allies.
        Even Spock has killed people with a phaser.

      • dfor

        Nice try, troll.

      • STemplar

        What excuse did Syria use in its 30 year visit in Lebanon? Doofuss.

    • STemplar

      They are sitting down to talk in Brussels on Tuesday, so I would imagine we are going to have some clarity about this question shortly.

  • FormerDirtDart

    Can one Turkish RF-4E in 2012 equal the USS Maddox and USS Turner Joy in 1964?

    • kim

      The main difference being, of course, that everybody involved actually seems to agree that the RF-4E was really shot down.

    • Oppervlakkig

      No I don’t think it can and I think it won’t. Vastly different contexts and situations. And don’t forget the world has changed: in minor incidents, the UN and International Law play a huge role. Vastly more than in in 1964.

      • majr0d

        Uh yeah. UN’s made a huge difference in N. Korea and Iran. The UN is a tool the big players use to influence the board.

        You’re ignoring Turkey’s relatively recent moves to a more indendent foreign policy and desire for a greater role in the middle east.

        • Oppervlakkig

          Of course the UN is a tool the big players use, I agree with you on that. The big players however have wholly different interests, so there is some sort of balance. That balance is also more or less channelled by the rules of International Law. Before the Iraq War of 2003, the Bush administration desperately tried to convince the UN to give them a mandate to invade. They didn’t and the 2003 Iraq War was an enormous blow to the reputation of the US and they won’t be eager do it again, even if Romney becomes president. I’m not saying the UN can stop all war, but I do want to stress that it is at least a pretty big buffer.

          I agree with you that Turkey recently has become more assertive in the foreign policy area and that it desires a greater role in the middle east. The latter it had for over 60 years now. But I have absolutely no reason to think that such a minor incident will be blown out of proportion to commence a retaliatory strike, as happened with the USS Maddox and Turner Joy. The language of Syria and Turkey was from the beginning off very peaceful.

          • majr0d

            Fine, just disagree that “Iinternational Law and the UN” are more effective now than they have ever been.

  • matt

    I wonder why there are reports made public about the CIA arming the rebels, did our dearest leader once again inform the media top secret information for the sake of his re-election bid?

    • majr0d

      The truth hurts sometimes.

      • Brad

        Right, because reporters never pay people off, and low lever people that know something never say anything about it, right? I’m sure the president called the NYT directly from the Oval Office and just spilled the beans all over the place right?

        Grow up. It was the Bush administrtion that leaked the identity of a CIA officer for political reasons. Go get your head checked.

        • majr0d

          Uh, we aren’t talking ONE leak here. Underwear Bomber II, Bin Laden op, Drone strike decision matrix, stuxnet, flame… Yeah, reporters and low level people (LOL). You’re an apologist (because the truth hurts).

          You need to widen your reading on Valerie Pflame. Look up “Armitage” and why he says he “leaked” the name of an agent.

  • Turkey drew up plans for a security buffer zone in northern Syria at the end of last year. And the rumour mill has been increasingly contemplating a first-strike bombing campaign against Syria over the last couple of months, particularly after the cross border shootings into Turkey and the deployment of Syrian Scuds -including five chemical weapon capable missiles- to the border region. It appears that Turkey has only held back from intervention to give the Syrian parties an opportunity to take up the increasingly irrelevant Annan peace plan. It seems likely that there’ll be some Turkish military event soon, but I doubt all out war.

    • Thunder350

      After this incident it intervention is only a matter of when, not if. Unless Obama tries to force a pause until AFTER the election here at home.

      • Brad

        Personally I don’t see how it would effect the election either way. Of the two candidates, I think Obama would be seen as the more “anti-war” president, even if he has led us in 3 seperate conflicts (I mean this as opposed to Romeny of course). So if the president less likely to participate in a war decides to do so, the candidate that is more likely to start/particiapte in a war can’t really blame the former for doing so.

        Unless Russia and Iran got involved, which I kind of doubt they would on a full-scale level, it would look more like the Libya campaign than Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan. The Libya campaign did not affect the president’s approval ratings a great deal in either direction.

        The only thing that being in a conflict w/ Syria during the election that would benefit Obama is that its not generally a good idea to change leaders in the middole of a war. However given all the other issues this year no one would be thinking about that.

  • Thunder350

    Turkey has called for a emergency meeting to discuss what has happened.

    Article 5 of the NATO treaty states.

    “The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defense recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.”

    Turkish Prime Minister said in a statement earlier today, “Turkey believes it was indeed Syria that shot down its fighter jet and that the pilots have yet to be found. Most ominously, that Turkey would respond decisively once it had established exactly what took place today”

    It’s only a matter of time until the bombs start dropping and we free the Syrian people of this brutal, illegitimate leader and give them the freedom they been asking for international intervention for.

    • Oppervlakkig

      Oh please don’t. This won’t be labelled as an “armed attack against Turkey” and moreover this would not be used as an excuse to begin a bombing campaign. Please stop blowing things out of proportion.

    • George Gauthier

      Well the attack was not in either Europe or North America. It happened in Asia. So Article 5 does not apply.

      • Oppervlakkig

        :’)

        But seriously no. It won’t be taken that literal. Turkey is in the context of the NATO treaty part of Europe and an attack on Turkish troops will, if Art 5 is considered to be enacted, probably be viewed as an attack on troops from a European country.

      • STemplar

        Read article 6. Article 5 does apply.

      • tiger

        Wrong.

  • GTown Fan

    Here’s food for thought. The F-4E is an older airframe, probably not the model that the Turkish air force would use when facing a peer air defenses. Would it be possible that the plane was sent on this mission, not with the intention that it’ll be shot down, but with that possibility in mind.

    If Assad was moving into the neighborhood around Aleppo / near the Turkish border, Turkey may have wanted to warn off Assad by aggressive patrolling near the border. Incidentally, aggressive patrolling using an airframe whose loss won’t be critical.

    • blight_

      I think the point was that the Turks weren’t interested in a fight, hence the RF-4. If they wanted to attack, they would’ve used F-16’s and their F-4E/2020’s or F-4E/TM’s.

      Maybe the Turks should’ve used their UAVs. Yes, they have UAVs…

    • andy

      Turkish airplane was an RF-4E which a version of intleligence and ground radar emmision logging. The primary target was to search and identify possible Russian military surface to air equipment , entered the later days into the Serian field. Assad after the event stated they regret shot down the Turkish plane, fact they wish to had been avoided !!! Porbably this statement means: “We wish to had under control the Russian user of the ground to air missile equipment ”

  • Scott C-P

    http://cimsec.org/syria-downs-turkish-f-4-in-the-

    Yeah, F-4Es have all been undergoing upgrades to airframes and avionics, both turkey’s the F-4E 2020s and and RF-4Es

  • Lance

    Wonder if a SA-10/20 or a MiG-29 shot it down???

  • Nate

    Please…Turkey may be a NATO member, but they are not a NATO state in any other real sense.

    • Can D

      What would real sense be? Turkey was part of numerous NATO missions. Besides holding up the whole of the Southern Flank on its own against the Warsaw Pact, Korea was one where you should really find a US veteran and ask them about the Turks. Turkey had ground, sea and air assets in front lines in Bosnia & Kosovo and more recently Turkey has about 1200 strong force in Afghanistan.

      I think you should read up on your history before throwing up comments with a racist slur.

    • tiger

      That made zero sense.

  • Cuneyt

    You mother ****ers why don’t you stop playing games and move your bigasses come directly Turkiye for fight if you really want it! We are the real warriors. Not like Iraq nor Iran etc.

    • Rapier975

      Cool your jets, fool. Everyone here is supportive of Turkey in this situation. Calling us MFers and boasting about how you are not Iraq, and real warrior and all that is pointless. Look to your actual enemies before challenging your friends.

    • BRIC Together

      Man, there is not evil bigger than United States in the world today.
      Always using some shit excuse to invade some country…Always.

      Some fo them are hypocrite, others naive…But dont matter what they say or what they think, americans are the bad guys.

      • Bash

        Yea….because Assad killing 10000 of his own people was not reason enough…….idiot.

        • Benjamin

          Believe it is up to 15K now

        • BRIC Together

          Dont matter, dont matter.
          Soverign is soverign. Auto-determination of the countries must be respected at all costs.
          Dont matter if you like! It is not your country.
          Your people are the enemy, you can think its not. But is how we see you.

          • Benjamin

            The deaths of 15K people don’t matter? If you lost someone you knew would you say they don’t matter,don’t matter?

          • blight_

            “Auto-determination of the countries must be respected at all costs. ”

            I guess we should’ve stayed out of Kuwait, Somalia, Rwanda and Bosnia and let them sort it all out. The western world is still going through a non-interventionist guilt phase; coupled with the fact that the west /will/ intervene on realpolitik grounds, but not for humanitarian ones. That is why we ended up in Kosovo despite Somalia: because of Bosnia.

            But that was all the ’90s.

          • Greg

            So what you are saying is the deaths don’t matter. It is okay for the regime to kill his own, and take support from Russia and China, but it is bad for the west to support rebels.

            It’s all or nothing buddy, I’m sure the rebels aren’t thrilled about the Russians sending helicopters and what not to the Regime. How do you figure it is fair for them to receive weapons and help from the Russians who have a base there, but it is so bad for us to support the rebels who have no heavy weapons but are being pounded by artillery tanks and rockets. That is perfectly fine in your convoluted world.

            You don’t have to agree with America, but try to use some reasoning and logic that you came up with on your own, instead of your brainwashed regurgitation of what your spy boss told you to write.

          • Tim

            “Soverign is soverign. Auto-determination of the countries must be respected at all costs.”???

            Yeah, yeah… You go tell that to the Soviet Union, which decided to take all the former soviet satellite countries after “liberating” them. The biggest hypocrite here is the Russian. They still try to make a few bucks selling weapons to dictators and wonder why the people rescind their contracts after toppling the dictators.

          • STemplar

            How many years did Syria occupy Lebanon?

          • BRIC Together

            Ah this discussions is the proof.
            Americans will never stop to make wars. Never.
            Dont matter what we say, USA and american people always be the agressor.

            So dont cry when more freedom fighters explode your buildings, all of you are responsible for this.

          • STemplar

            It was 30 years if you are curious.

          • Benjamin

            BRIC Together, you may want to read up on Syria’s involvement in Lebanon’s Civil War. Everything you argue Syria has done.

            15K Syrians dead and climbing

          • Woody

            If our buildings “explode” your the first person we’re going to look up Bric, so I would keep that kinda thing to yourself or you will find yourself being buried at sea like another muslim dog the US has taken care of…and you have no clue how “aggressive” the US could be if it really wanted to…

      • blight_

        With your logic, we were justified not supporting the Shia and Kurd rebels after ’91. God willed the Republican Guard to “restore order”.

    • Woody

      What a big mouth from an Arab…he has no idea the ruin that he would be in for…..jeez…

  • majr0d

    Not believing this was a mistake. It was a message.

    ANY support the rebels are getting is through Turkey. Assad is trying to intimidate the only nation through which supplies can get to the rebels.

    Problem is Turkey is exercising a more independent and active foreign policy. Turkey IS going to retaliate. Probably not a full out intervention but Assad could be trying to provoke one as a short term solution to the rebels.

    We will not get directly involved. Likely Nato won’t either. More lead from behind action.

    • Oppervlakkig

      Too bad for you your theory does not fit with the language the two countries are displaying. Turkey sort of admits the plane was flying in Syrian airspace. Syria says that when they realised it was a Turkish plane, they offered support for the S&R.

      If Turkey was preparing for a retaliatory strike, it would have needed public support, which you don’t create by admitting you may have been the one who was in the wrong. The rhetoric would have been very hostile, which it just isn’t.

      • majr0d

        “Turkey’s president says his country would take the “necessary” action against Syria, a day after Damascus said it had shot a Turkish military plane that had entered its air space.

        Syria and Turkey have expelled each other’s ambassadors and Syria has accused Turkey of supporting Syrian opposition and even allowing Syrian rebels to operate out of Turkish soil. Turkey strongly denies the allegations.

        After a cross-border shooting by Syrian forces in April, Turkey said it would not tolerate any action that it deemed violating its security. The firing had left two refugees dead at a camp near the town of Kilis just inside Turkey.”
        http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/06/23/tur

  • Sal

    I guess the author forgot about the 2020 terminator upgrade.

  • STemplar

    I would imagine Syrian IADS is on a hair trigger, concerned with the real possibility of a Balkans/Libyan style intervention. Given some of the ranges quoted I’m wondering if the the Turkish plane was or wasn’t inside Syrian air space. It was close either way.

    • Benjamin

      i got to agree with the Turkish President. Regardless if the jet penetrated Syrian airspace it should have been warned first.

      • majr0d

        good point

  • jamesb

    I’m gonna agree this a/c was probably close or slightly IN Syrian airspace….Probably low enough not to have any space to jig away from a missile shot…..You have to know the Turks have been doing this regularly coming closer and closer….

    Turkey I image to put some hurt on the Syrian’s…
    But that’s NOT the question…

    The question is WHAT after that….
    I would image the Turks don’t want an ALL OUT shooting war…
    And I believe neither does NATO or the West for $$$ and manpower reasons….

    I wonder if they went right back to flyby’s?

  • jamesb

    I image COULD put some hurt on Syria……sorry

  • Roland

    I think the Syrian rebels have the right to self defense so as the Turkish pilots.

    • Roland

      I hope I said that right…

    • So?

      Yeah, the same right as Syrian pilots in Turkish airspace.

  • Cuneyt

    Not yet ignited. Why do you support my country? Because you like my brown eyes or to enlarge your lands? or to occupy another weak muslim country for democracy? I don’t need your support democracy nor trillions. I am well aware of everything happenning around us, and globally. Its like repeating extended play. I have no problem with the American citizens or its patriotics. My problem is who governs them hidded behind scene.

  • Sam

    Here’s an idea. Why don’t we keep out of other people’s business. Why do we always want to get into wars?
    Syria is Israel’s neighbor. Let them deal with it. They west gives Israel over 15billion dollars a year. Let them start earning it.

    • navy259

      Ummmm really bad idea, as Iran is a close ally of Syria. And they hate Israel more than any other country on the planet.

    • Skyepapa

      I would say Israel has demonstrated the hell out of their willingness and ability to defend themselves. This problem goes way beyond Israeli concerns.

  • LEP

    Turkey is pursuing its own geopolitical goals by targeting the undersea natural gas resources in the Eastern Mediterranean. Those do not stop at the exclusive economic zones of just Israel and Cyprus but may extend in Syrian sea space as well. These are the Turkish intentions and not the rescue of the innocent Syrian civilians that are being killed by the Assad regime. Nevertheless, the Turkish Air Force (THK) mission with one-two F-4E/RF-4E aircraft was an open provocation and replicated the almost weekly violations of Greek and Cypriot air space by armed THK aircraft. It is interesting to note that the THK command decided to carry out this mission while Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan was outside Turkey (the “independent thinking” of the Turkish military establishment). It is strange that the ECM-ESM-RWR equipment of the modernized F-4E/RF-4Es was not able to cope with the Syrian Soviet era SA-3 and SA-6 systems that have been modernized by the North Koreans.

    • stoop

      NK doesn’t have SA-6’s moron.

      • LEP

        The North Koreans modernized the Syrian detection and fire control radar systems that serve the Syrian SA-2, SA-3, and SA-6 batteries. Whether the North Koreans have or do not have SA-6s is totally immaterial to your non-factually based assessment to what I presented.

    • adamski

      I agree, it is very interesting the Syrians so effectively brought down a modernish western electronic warfare aircraft. Quite unexpected looking at the Turkish response, and again intersting he had to fly home from Brazil to take charge. Funny to see the western efforts to portray the defence of Syrian airspace as an aggressive act.

      • Can D

        Recce jets DO NOT have ECM turned on simply because that would light up the counter radars.

        It was hilarious of the Syrians to say they realized it was a Turkish jet after they shot it down…

        My money is that it had nothing to do with the Syrians but Russian naval base in the port town area events happened and Assad simply cant say that…

        • LEP

          I am wondering about the validity of your reply. Are you essentially saying that reconnaissance aircraft such as the RF-4E will approach a hostile area that is heavily defended by SAM batteries WITHOUT having their RWR-ECM turned on? Isn’t this suicidal? I do not think that is how the USAF RF-C/Es operated while flying photoreconnaissance over North Vietnam in the 1960s and the 1970s. You also appear to underestimate the capabilities of the Syrians to manage the military equipment that they have. Fortunately, General Martin Dempsey, USA, Chief of Staff, put forward a different point of view while being interviewed in the Fareed Zacharia, GPS-CNN, news show a number of weeks ago.

  • jamesb

    you can bet NATO has been ALL over the ‘incident’ trying to figure out WHAT and HOW this happened…..

  • jamesb

    ok….
    everyone can cool your heels….

    from the LA Times….
    Syrian and Turkish officials moved to tamp down tensions Saturday in the wake of a Syrian shoot-down of a Turkish jet, as the two nations mounted a joint rescue operation seeking two pilots still missing in the eastern Mediterranean.

    The incident had the potential to escalate tensions between two neighboring countries, whose relations are already severely strained because of Turkey’s tacit support of the more than yearlong Syrian uprising against President Bashar Assad.

    But there was a notable lack of bellicose rhetoric Saturday emanating from both capitals, Ankara and Damascus, underscoring the extreme sensitivity and explosive potential of the incident…. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/06

  • George F.

    RUMINT in Greece has it that there was a pair of RF-4s collecting intel on a Cypriot army exercise, they were given an order to do a low altitude fly-by off the Syrian coast as they were returning to base, to annoy the Syrians. Well the Syrians were annoyed alright, it is quite possible that AAA (not SAMs) got that bird, as it drifted too close to an important ‘undisclosed’ location, possibly a Pantsyr system.

    • LEP

      Correct – The information is coming out from the press in the independent island Republic of Cyprus and concerns a major Cypriot National Guard exercise (Cyprus Army) which was being electronically monitored by the Turkish Air Force (the Turkish Army unlawfully occupies with 40,000 troops 36% of Cypriot territory). The Turkish RF-4E was shot down in the vicinity of the Syrian port city of Latakia which has very strong SAM air defenses. I doubt that conventional AAA brought down the Turkish aircraft although Syria claims that it was shot down at about 1 km (0.6 mi) from the Syrian coastline. Even the Russian mobile Pantsir A/A system that is used by the Syrians is a “mixed” gun/missile system.

  • alexbacha

    Os revolucionários devem ter todo o apoio do mundo civilizado. são verdadeiros heróis que deixaram de obedecer a um louco assassino e defender a honra do povo sírio. O mundo será bem melhor sem o Assad, a Rússia e a China e todos os malucos do mundo que ainda apoiam esse regime assassino.

    • matheusdiasuk

      Cara, posta em inglês. Esse é um forum em inglês, praticamente voltado ao publico de lingua inglesa.

      Just telling him to write in English. Some brazilians unfortunately believes that everybody in the internet speaks portuguese. He said revolutionaries should have all the suport from international community because they are true heroes, fighting against the tyrannie. And the world would be far better without China and Russia.

      Sorry for the bad translation.

      • majr0d

        Cool, thanks for translating.

  • blight_

    Well, if the Turks want U-2’s for “safer” overflights…?

  • Michael Ross

    That they haven’t poured over the border and retaken this core Ottoman territory months ago from the pathetic descendants of France’s lackeys just goes to show what a bunch of numpties have replaced the once great Ottoman Empire. Wouldn’t have taken two weeks and by the time the world would have cottoned on it’d be a fait accompli. Instead they’d rather ‘cool tensions’. Jordan is just as cowardly, so much for their Greater Syriac aspirations.

  • daj29152

    F-4’s rock!

  • Tim

    Who said the Turkish F-4 is actually Turkish? It could be a droned F-4 used to test Syrian air defence. Who made the drone… ahem… anyone?

    Anyways, interesting how silly posters are now flocking here to thump down America. If they are Syrians supporting Assad, they must sense time is up… Anytime now, not a single Russian missile battery, or the Russian Navy for that matter, could save Assad and his miserable regime.

  • Tribulationtime

    it will be better nuke-bombing right now, all rogue-states though that it can be our destruction too III W W NOW!!!. Yes we bomb. Dr. strangelove

  • majr0d

    Just reported, Syria fires on Turkish search/rescue plane.

    • Benjamin

      That is the dumbest move the Syrians could make. At minimum the Turks are now definitely well within there rights to bomb the Syrian air defense network in that area and public opinion will definitely be in Turkey’s favor

      • majr0d

        Just reported…

        Asked if Turkey will insist on the activation of Article 5 at tomorrow’s NATO meeting, Deputy PM Arinc said, “No doubt, Turkey has made necessary applications with NATO regarding Article 4 and Article 5.”

        “It should be known that within legality we will of course use all rights granted under international law until the end,” Arinc said. “This also includes self-defense. This also includes retaliation many-fold. This includes all sanctions that can be applied to the aggressor state under international law. Turkey will not leave anything out on this issue. The public should be assured.”

        So much for those that thought this was minor or a mistake…

  • Thunder350

    Turkey says one of their search and rescue planes was fired upon, but upon warning from the Turkish military Syria ceased fire. Turkish deputy prime minister also said the first plane was a mile out in international airspace when it was hit. He also said they will push for Article 4 and Article 5 recognition at the NATO meeting tomorrow (Tuesday).

    Now lets see if the alliance can stand this test of their will power and support its allies.

  • orly?

    That whole Middle Eastern “Armageddon” thing is seeming more likely everytime the news comes up.

  • Cuneyt

    This is the 3rd world war sirenes. America is in the leading role that makes every movement to make chaos in Middle East. And we Turks are ready to position at the stage of this history and fight to the last drop of our bloods agaist whom have eye on our lands!

  • Paul

    @Cuneyt is wrong about apportioning blame but he isn’t wrong about the US dabbling in the Middle East. Britain’s dissolution of Empire was flawed thanks to the interference by the US with Suez and the formation of Israel.

    One only has to look at the Dubya/Bliar show in Iraq to see the depth of America’s dabbling; never was WMD, but more that Saddam Hussein stuck two fingers up at the US administration. With America’s oil also under Iraq it was obvious what was going to happen.

    Luckily for Syria, their oil reserves are not great.

    On another point as you all damn Assad for what he’s doing just ask yourself what Obama, or in my case Cameron, would be doing if the same thing kicked off on their home grounds [we have both had past civil war too]. I suggest the same dirty thing.

    • majr0d

      Another “blame America/Britain first” nut.

    • STemplar

      These things wouldn’t happen in the US or UK because people are allowed a measure of say in their governments. We’ve also matured a little bit as a culture as well and by your logic if I thought your cave was better than mine I could bash your skull in and take and that’s just tough luck for you. Grow up.

      Also what I find so laughable in the anti Iraq war crowd and the ceaseless harping on oil as the motivation. It’s no secret. The US’s stated national security priority in the middle east for the last 40 years has always been the uninterrupted flow of oil.
      You are making pronouncements like you’ve discovered some Area 51 mystery.

  • Benjamin

    Gotta love conspiracy theorist. They could slip and fall and still find a way to blame the U.S. or Israel

  • Cuneyt

    Tell me what would you think if you find the helmet and boot of the pilot on the sea surface after the crash? 10 days later after the crash the pilot found dead. http://www.tsk.tr/3_basin_yayin_faaliyetleri/3_4_