Maybe This Really Is China’s New Stealth Jet

Last week, we were inclined to say this plane was simply a Hondgu L-15 trainer jet being transported accross China via a flatebed truck. Some readers were skeptical, saying that it looked more like the stealth F-60 that China’s Shenyang aircraft-maker is rumored to be building. Well, new pics emerged over the weekend that show an aircraft that has us rethinking our initial call.

As you can see from these new pics, it appears that the mystery jet has air intakes that do indeed resemble those shown on a mock up of the F-60 (see below), it’s wing flaps also seem t resemble the F-60, and the cockpit, well, you be the judge.

Click through the jump to see an overhead view of the mystery jet that also resembles the F-60 as well as a picture of a model F-60 that strongly resembles a smaller version of an F-22 Raptor (with different air intakes and engine nozzles, etc.) I’m not even gonna say it.

If this veiled jet really is the F-60 (it could be another airplane or just a large mock up of the F-60), China might be on track to to reveal two new types of stealth fighters in less than two years.

H/t to China Defense and The DEW Line.

  • Prodozul

    Who’d a thunk it…

  • SJE

    Maybe our contractors and other private companies will get serious about cyber security.

  • Kole

    Remember… it’s made in China. No fears here.

  • I wonder what its performance is like? How are the engines, does it have super cruise? Avionics? I’m pretty sure that its pilots aren’t as good, but there comes a time when that won’t matter because of the sheer numbers of these things that China can put in the sky. This is about the first time that I am even a little worried about our dominance in the sky.

  • Tad

    Actually, it’s a pterosaur. It’s covered up with fabric and netting because the Chinese don’t want anyone to know that they are cloning dinosaurs at a secret facility.

    • jacob

      this good sir knows whats going on

      • Jflo

        Yes he does

    • Vec

      Your answer makes u feel good.

  • Lance

    While the scale model dose look F-22ish the towed plane dose not. Hard to tell with all of it covered. It might be a full sized mock up. Overall with this prove if your DF tech blogger is right that the J-20 is just a experiments while new planes may be more combat oriented in Chinese test now??

  • Why would you throw your super secret new plane on a flatbed and drive across town in the daylight?

    • m.t

      Because with 1.3 biilion people and most of the American jobs that people paid taxes into the Goverment and now they are collecting unemployment, China is laughing their butts off at us. They have never been an allie and don’t plan on being one. Things are looking worse all the time.

  • Josh

    Who would have guessed china would copy the F-22’s design (for the most part)?

    • majr0d

      I know, what a surprise!

  • Jayson

    Has a certain semblance to you know what lol got hacked recently too … Certain designs might have gotten stolen and we may be seeing real life VFA-6X Veritech Shadow Fighter!!

    I’d still be saying ooooo if that does materialize.

  • richard obrien

    This country has been at war with the U.S. since 1950. They’ve made it clear to us and lots of other folks, from Vietnam to the Philippines, that they intend to take, by brute force, whatever they want, when they want it.
    This is like the “phoney war” of 1939.
    We’re running out of time to react against an emerging global threat.

  • matt

    Wow, just wow. That literally is an F22 mock up with an F35 cockpit. These thief’s have no original ideas.

    • asdf

      If that’s the case then the Spitfire is literally a Messerschmidt with smooth edges. The Mitsubishi zero is literally a p51 with no armor. And the F-86 Sabre is literally a Mig 15 with a smaller gun.

  • Black Owl

    Looks like we’re starting to see where that hacked F-35 data from a few years ago is being used.

  • Praetor

    Easy to find out… Does the truck’s driver suffered form hypoxia?

  • kim

    I’ve seen other jets transported while positioned at an odd angle on their flatbed trailers, the point being to make the load as narrow as possible to clear obstructions along the way.

  • dubweiser101

    Another ‘original’ design from China. I guess creativity is in short supply over there.

  • Anlushac11

    The US could have built a F-35 that could fly Mach 2 but for what purpose? FAA Sea Harriers were able to lock AIM-9L’s onto the heat signature of the leading edge of Argentinian Mirage III’s/Daggers wings in Falklands conflict. Modern IRST could probably pick up that same heat signature.

    What is difference in fuel consumption rate to fly Mach 1.6 versus Mach 2? Is the Mach 1.6 the best balance of speed and fuel consumption?

    Is it possible the US has underrated the aircraft to throw off our enemies? The engine in the F-35 is of a newer design, still room to grow. Possibility for more speed with engine upgrades later?

    Lastly IMHO USMC would be happy with a Mach 1.6 F-35B versus a subsonic Harrier II. USN F-18’s are in Mach 1.8 range so not a major speed difference IMHO. Since F-35 carries most of its payload inside seems it should cruise faster than a Gen 4 with under wing loads.

    • ben

      the main reason for the slower modern fighters is the removal of the variable intake ramps from their designs, which were used to increase engine efficiency at high speeds.
      The ramps added weight, and a potential point of failure, since if they got stuck in the high speed position, the engines would stall at low speeds.
      They also prevent the intake from being designed to reduce radar cross section.

      They were primarily meant to enable high speed penetration for bombers, and were also put in fighters to intercept those bombers. (or in the case of the concorde to improve fuel efficiency.)

      The B-1B for example dropped the intake ramps of the original B-1A because it didn’t need them for it’s low level mission.

      similarly, the f/a-18 and f-35 don’t have them because they aren’t meant to be used for high speed interceptions. and they don’t need to go that fast.

      The f-22 can still achieve mach 2 speeds without them because of it’s immensely powerful engines that can produce enough thrust even with the reduced efficiency.

      • Chris

        Very helpful. Thanks.

    • Guest

      @ Anlushac11

      Is the Mach 1.6 the best balance of speed and fuel consumption?

      No, Mach 1.6 is not the best balance for speed and fuel comsumption. You won’t be able to survive because you’ll be placed at a significant disadvantage to Mach 2.4 aircraft such as the super cruising Sukhoi, J-20 and perhaps J-60 if it has the mach 2+ requirement. The wing and engine intake geometry for the F-35 is optimised for sub-sonic flight – so a more powerful engine cannot fix the problem even if one would fit in the small JSF airframe. In stealth combat configuration, the F-35 aerodynamically doesn’t and will never be able to outperform all other combat-configured 4th, 4.5, 4++ and 5th generation aircraft in top-end speed, loiter, subsonic acceleration and combat radius. It doesn’t allow unprecedented see/shoot first and combat radius advantages.

      The F-35A does have large internal fuel load at 18,500 lbs, its fuel flow is too inefficient which means the aircraft will be burning a lot of fuel while deploying afterburner for e.g. supersonic engagements. Which is why the F-35 has a short range.

    • Guest

      @ Anlushac11

      I prefer Mach 2+ because it has the best balance for speed and fuel consumption. This enhances both engagements of flying into the target area and destroying the high threat targets, and escape from, known threats as to get out of the fight as quick as possible to survive. Mach 1.6 doesn’t work well for that requirement, which again in air combat you’ll be placed at a significant disadvantage of being shot down while being chased by a Mach 2 Sukhoi, J-20 or J-60 that the F/A-18E/F and F-35 can’t escape from the fight.

    • Guest

      @ Anlushac11

      “Is the Mach 1.6 the best balance of speed and fuel consumption”?

      No. Mach 1.6 and Mach 1.8 requirements are not the best balance for speed and fuel consumption. It doesn’t work well which the F/A-18 family and soon upcoming F-35 will not be able to escape in air combat and will be placed at a significant disadvantage of being shot down while being chased by the super-cruising Mach 2.4 Sukhoi family of fighters, J-20 Mighty Dragon and perhaps the J-60 if it has a Mach 2+ requirement.

      • Laconic

        much of what made the F4 Phantom so effective was it’s terrific speed. It was the first fighter that could force or decline an engagement. That is, it could overtake a fleeing opponent or leave an attacker in its dust. That can’t be done a Mach 1.6

    • Guest

      @ Anlushac11

      The F-35’s wing and engine intake geometry is optimised for sub-sonic flight – so a more powerful engine cannot fix the problem even if one would fit in the small JSF airframe. In stealth combat configuration, the F/A-18 family and F-35 aerodynamically doesn’t and will never be able to outperform all other combat-configured 4th, 4.5, 4++ and 5th generation aircraft in top-end Mach 2+ speed, loiter and combat radius. It doesn’t allow unprecedented see/shoot first and combat radius advantages.

      Even though fighters are rarely used at Mach 2 for air-to-air combat or ground attack, but I still believe it is still needed for survivability which enhances both engagements of flying into the target area and destroying the high threat targets, and escape from, known threats as to get out of the fight as quick as possible to survive.

      For instance the F-35A does have large internal fuel load at 18,500 lbs, its fuel flow is too inefficient which means the aircraft will be burning a lot of fuel while deploying afterburner for e.g. supersonic engagements. Which is why the F-35 has a short range.

  • Hunter76

    Performance differences are not important, if they can build 10 for the cost of 1 F-35.

    Otoh, it could be a mock-up in a brilliant piece of strategic disinformation.

  • EYSY

    All the while the US have been under estimating the capabilities of China. With tons of cash in hand they can invest into research of new technology (no doubt they had help through espionage). Take a look at their Space research. They have made tremendous progress in their quest for Space dominance. No doubt with time, dedication & $$$ in hand they WILL catch up with the US in air dominance and eventually surpass it.

  • macrossmark

    expecting the 3rd and 4th stealth fighters are coming from China …….. Leung

  • Jason

    Just in time for Sequestration to swoop in and cripple our national defense infrastructure. Contact your local political representatives and stress how important coming to a resolution is for this wonderful country.

  • Maxtrue

    Whether this is real or not, it is clear the China made the Raptor program their model to copy. Its a lot harder than that, but it ought to make us re-examine why we went forward with the concept of an F-22 and an FN-22. Seems the same basic strategy is still in play. With 3/4 of Air Force budget spent on the F-22 and F-35, how is it we lost our way?

    Its still not too late to improve the concept while a decade or more is required to finance the future alternatives…. Yes, let’s ponder that as the Chinese circle the earth in their little space station.

  • Larryje25

    Ultimately, Chnan still has serious troubles training a workforce to buidl and maintain a true 5th generation plane. Like much in Beijing, this is much to-do about nothing.

    • cs4

      Until somebody gave you a kick in the buttom.

  • BAJ15

    I am really getting sick of seeing these supposed knock offs of western designs. This outward theft of programs is beyond out of hand. Enough is enough. When I see them banging out x models faster than we can, including the mini space shuttle by the way, we are in serious trouble. Never underestimate a potential foe like China, especially when we seemingly ‘give’ them this technology on a silver platter.
    A pissed off tax payer

  • superraptor

    there will be thousands of stealthy Chinese jets and ?how many US jets. We will be totally outmatched.

    • Ben

      1) By the time China has “thousands” of J-20s (if they ever even break a few hundred) we’ll be beginning to field our 6th generation air superiority fighters. You’re assuming we started the 5th generation the same time the Chinese did.

      2) You’re also assuming that you can match our fighters to China’s in a 1-to-1 ratio. That’s bullshit, I don’t care how much you hate our planes.

  • apachecav

    China has stolen the F22 and F35 design plans at an estimated cost to the US tax payer of 1.2 trillion dollars. The Chinese own about 1.2 trillion dollars in US Debt., Problem solved, China just Bought those plans for 1.2 trillion dollars and we no longer have a debt to China, Now if only our Government would have enough intestinal fortitude to carry this out!

    • Tribulationtime

      Yes, they need them to produce cheap spares. I suppose that it the price of business-man playing with fire. Blame Boeing, Loockeed Martin and part of goverment which watch for importations, security and spying, etc.

  • Woody

    Back in the 40’s when quanity was a quality all its own, they didnt have the ability to shoot down more than one at a time…..even if the Chicoms send 100 after a squadron of Raptors they will still lose….their tech is still 2-3 decades behind…as much as the Chicoms worry me, the US still dominates the worlds oceans and in the air. The US F-15, 16 and 18’s with its advanced avionics would make short work of any Chicom threat…and China wont make thousands of these so called Stealth planes that will look like a bomber on US radar screens…

  • Rob

    To both of you:

    Woody – it is never wise to underestimate your opponent in any aspect. With the amount of cyber espionage that exists, it wouldn’t surprise me if they could produce Air to Air Missiles or advanced radars to compete with our fighters.

    Superraptor – the US is in no position to play a money battle with China. The Raptor production will be dead until a rise in nationalism and anti-chinese sentiment occurs.

    • Maxtrue

      Gee, and I thought our innovation, freedom, capitalism, smarts were a match for sheer spending by adversaries. There are numerous places the need for the Raptor program will surface, not just China. Hell, SA-22s would have really blown those Turks out of the sky.

      I think we need to pierce the media veil before nationalism and fear shake us up. One plans based on real facts. The narrative for American security and leadership has sprung a leak. And the data loss is obvious in the surprises we see.

  • Tribulationtime

    Thanks to you too, for the tip about intakes.

  • This could not be possible without USA & the West Investment in China..

    • blight_

      Very true. But we made the investment. Now what?

      In the long run, we should support the Chinese people’s call for increased living standards-it will make American workers more competitive.

  • Rob

    I say push Japan into a space based air defense system & demand Russia ,China, NK, Iran conform to the global system.

    All stand to benefit from government unity. More focus and be made on improving trade, cooperating on international crime & corruption.

    For as long as our countries stay at odds, things will not improve. WWIII is inevitable unless something changes for the better soon.

  • Vec

    Try and u be surprised at the response.

  • FmrMarine

    Take them on now, or take them on when it’s too late. They are after us. You know this to be true. On every level they are preparing to wage and win an all out war with us. This is where all the “made in China” labels will end up killing us.

    Are you all glad all your hard earned money is financing the very toys they will use to kill us.

    Can you imagine there are those here in the U.S.A that are happy to see all this happen.

    • tyvern

      Time to get the US combined militia formed then…

      Every man and woman able bodied enough to do some degree of soldiering will get some degree of training and a weapon.

      of course the US government will never allow it, even though the need of a standing militia is in the Constitution

  • TH

    Guys! Don’t forget that german is the first country to fly fighter jets and US get theirs first jets after germany lose and US captured their scientist n these people are the guy who helps US to get infront of others in the sky.

    • blight_

      That’s an overly simplistic picture. It was between the UK and Germany, and the US deployed their jet engines after license-building some UK jet engines. The UK got their prototypes out before the Germans did (who were delayed by engine problems), but Me 262s were issued to operational squadrons before the Allies.

  • TH

    Kole, buy ticket n fly to Tibet, stay for 1 week before u make ur comments otherwise you will just look like a stupid by others. Don’t think that u know everything correctly by living in Us. Its part of politics game play by US who want to discredit China in the international world. I works in China for 5 years n travel alot around China including Tibet. I would tell you… Come here man n u will hv ur eyeball popout

  • Davyd

    Seriously, how could these be a surprise? With just about everything we buy stateside marked ‘Made in China’ i’m pretty sure a lot of the parts in or on the F-22 are the same way. There’s no need for espionage – they’ve already built it! I mean, look at that thing. They don’t care that the world knows it’s a knock off. Its camouflage is even the same pattern as seen on early F-22s (and to a lesser extent, current ones). Quite frankly i think they should keep showing copies like this off. Why not? It’s one-upmanship on the rest of the globe. It shows that they can design and build aircraft right up with the rest of the world and quite probably in far greater numbers because nobody else has the dough or the industry.

    China. The Next Only Superpower.

  • duuude

    If only McDonnell Douglas, General Dynamics, Fairchild, Northrop, Vought, Republic and Grumman were still separate fighter making entities.

  • duuude

    and what if it was actually just a decoy.

  • pcleech

    I hope the Chinese copied the OBOGS and the toxic paint too?

  • bob

    Americans seem to have a obsession with taking credit for generic ideas, which would explain why the patent system is so broken.

  • Sai

    Looks like a shitty knock off of the F-22 Raptor. Probably wont ever be as good as the real thing. Take it from somebody who is actually in the US Air Force. Were the best in the world. China will never even come close.

  • Guest

    I’m sure we can thank the Clintons for a lot of this “lost” technology

  • Bob

    What it will come down to is that the US and allies will have X number of planes that have to Fly 500-800kms to the fight. China will probably have a similar number of planes operating in a SAM belt and only having to fly 100-200kms to the flight. The US and allies planes will have to turn for home while the Chinese will have field available to chase. The number of sorties and planes in the air would probably be over whelming in favour of China even of they had the same number of places available primarily due to the turn around time for each sortie. In addition the F22 can only carry 6 or 8 A2A missiles in Stealth and the F35 4. The Chinese designs all carry 10+ missiles and may not be as stealthy but will have an advantage in numbers of missile carriers and missiles in the air.

  • Ghenghis

    I hope China did not copy the white Elephant called F22 whose oxygen is toxic to the yankees only. And yes, don’t copy the F35 which is extrapolated to cost U$1T but is as faulty as the exploded Challenger space shuttle, which has since been retired to a museum in U of S. California. Pathetic US products, no wonder their exports and economy is going down in a tailspin as fast as its F22.

    • blight_

      …who still calls Americans Yankees?

  • Typhoon

    Guys, I am from Singapore and we have access to both Western and Chinese media.
    We got a lot of articles from China relating to their Scientific Research on new products. Never estimate them because their Govt. is putting a lot of emphasis on R & D and China is producing several hundred thousand of engineers a year.

    When China first detonated their first Atom bomb in 1964, the US defence ridicule them as a primitive device.
    However, within 3 years they had sucessfully detonated the Hydrogen bomb with a yield of 3.3 megaton whic can demolish the entire LA city.
    A year later, they exploded another nuclear device using a DF-3 medium range missile.

    Some of you Americans talk down on Chinese fighter pilot skill. Just think of how they train their Gymnasts and Divers and you can draw your own conclusion.

  • PaperDragon

    they can build all the “stealth” fighter bodied planes that they want. They don’t have the knowledge or the experience in even making a fighter jet engine with a decent thrust to weight ratio. Even their best engines are light years behind what GE and Pratt were making 30 years ago. They are behind the US period. Lets just hope the Israelis stop giving them what the US gives to Israel (lost f-16 engines, yeah right).

  • Is everyone in here dumb?? Have you ever owned anything Chinese? They can’t make a common house fan that will last a year. That’s over 100 year technology. If that was anything but a SHELL of a jet. Don’t you think they would have flown it to where ever it is they are taking it. They can’t even make a decent jet engine, with a stolen F16 engine sitting there staring at them. Relax, If you people would just vote republican and we cut off trade with them then they no longer have an economy. Better than a Nuke.

  • all the time i used to read smaller articles that as well clear their motive, and that is also happening with
    this post which I am reading here.

  • Why might you toss your super mystery new plane on a flatbed and drive crosswise over town in the sunlight