Ospreys to Israel in Major Arms Deal

Israel will receive the MV-22 Osprey in the first foreign sale of the tilt-rotor aircraft as part of major arms deals with Mideast allies to guard against the threat from Iran, senior Defense Department officials said Friday.

The Ospreys were the “most significant” assets in the total arms package and were “for the first time being made available for Israel to purchase,” a senior DOD official said in a background briefing on Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel’s upcoming Mideast trip.

Israel has not yet decided on how many of the troop-carry Ospreys, made by Bell Boeing of Fort Worth, Texas, will be purchased, DOD officials said. Bell and the Marine Corps have been negotiating with the United Arab Emirates for more than a year on Osprey sales, and the discussions were continuing, the officials said.

The civil war in Syria will be at the top of the agenda for Hagel’s trip beginning this weekend to Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE, the officials said.

One defense official said the arms package “doesn’t signal a change in policy toward Iran,” but a second official added that “the common threat in the region is clear.”

In addition to the Ospreys, Israel will also be getting advanced radars for Israeli fighter and attack aircraft, and anti-radiation missiles for targeting enemy radar sites.

The UAE will be getting 25 advanced F-16 fighters made by Lockheed Martin for $4.25 billion, and Saudi Arabia and the UAE have also agreed to buy additional standoff missiles and smart bomb s, the DOD officials said.

The total value of the sales to Israel and the regional allies will be about $10 billion. A Defense Department official called it “the most complex and carefully orchestrated arms packages in history.”

The sales grew out of President Obama’s directive to former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta last year to look for ways to boost Israeli’s qualitative military edge in the region, the DOD officials said.

“We had been looking for ways to increase the capabilities of Israel in a significant way,” a Defense Department official said.

By boosting Israel’s capabilities, the sales to the Arab allies also became more politically viable in Congress, the officials said. Israel currently receives $3.1 billion in U.S. military aid, and another $300 million for missile defense, the Defense Department officials said.

The additional sales “will raise Israel’s military superiority to a level that it has never been rasied to before,” a defense official said.

The Ospreys, which provide longer-range and faster troop carrying and supply missions than conventional helicopters, have a checkered history.

More than 30 Marines were killed in testing, and the aircraft survived numerous attempts to cancel the program over cost overruns and systems’ failures.

The Marines have stressed that the Ospreys proved their worth in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the aircraft earlier this year passed another hurdle when they were deployed for the first time to Japan over the protests of Okinawa residents.

  • blight_

    Good. The Israelis will subsequently upgrade the Osprey in ways that put Bell Textron to shame; and we’ll just follow in their footsteps.

    • Tad

      Are we (the US) that smart?

    • Dave

      Can’t wait to see how the Israelis pimp it out.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Probably bristling weaponry, or something that will make Bell Textron engineers to feel really stupid.

  • Musson

    Long range raids.

    • blight_

      I think they’d rather have our stealthy Blackhawk than the Osprey if the mission is long-range raids.

      Though it kind of depends on what your mission is.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Ah, but the Israelis might be aiming for a lift helicopter. Beats me why they would go after this rather than a Chinook, though.

        • tiger

          Because it Does stuff the flying school bus can not.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Em. What would that be?

      • tiger

        They have no friendly refuel spots. Range & speed matter.

        • blight_

          True. But the other possibility is stealthy helicopter with refuel probe.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            The probe would have to be retractable; something like that sticking out of a “stealth” helicopter would maximize its RCS dramatically.

          • tiger

            Is your tanker stealthy? Kill it, mission over…. If you had to pull a Entebee type raid today, The V-22 gives you a lot more to play with.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Well, no one said you refuel in the aerospace in which you want to hold an operation.

          • tiger
          • USS ENTERPRISE

            If you gain air superiority?

          • Benjamin

            There are times you do not want to attain air superiority. a good example of this is when you want to surprise an enemy. Shooting down all his aircraft and destroying his air defense sites is a major open act that the Israeli’s may want to avoid. A surprise raid will most likely give you better intel on what was going on at the site you raided rather then give them time to clean it up.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Abottobad, true. Okay, I see the point.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Well, Like STemplar said, what problem will you have over the Red Sea, or the Mediterranean Sea?

          • majr0d

            Question is if we trust the Israelis enough with that technology. Heck we aren’t selling F22s to England our closest ally in the world (nor are we selling the stealth hawks..

            Then there’s the volume (think profit) would be much less.

          • tiger

            The UK has the Typhoon for that role. We are selling them F-35B’s.

          • majr0d

            Yes but my point is we aren’t letting the tech out. Japan wants the F22 and Australia is also rumored to want it.

            BTW, if the Brits could get the F22 they might not be buying as many Typhoons…

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Agreed. I personally believe that the Typhoons are there in the Brit’s air force because its the best that they can lay their hand on. I don’t see why Japan, the Aussies, and the Brit’s can’t buy the Raptor (except, of course, for the law the bans the sale in the first place).

          • gaylord_gaylordson

            The Australians do not want the F22. Certain civilian blowhards in Australia do….not the airforce or MOD.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            After an “assessment” period, they claimed that the F-22 couldn’t conduct the strike missions the RAAF wanted. Otherwise, though, the F-22 was gold for them. And really, they could still perform strike missions with the F-22 (though they would be less than spectacular) or they could use those F-18E/Fs that were kinda designed for the job they want done.

          • Jamie
          • blight_

            The money we give them has to spent on military hardware.

            There’s a reason why the Israeli aircraft industry is so stultified: the IAI Kfir was smothered by cheap F-16’s. They won’t build their own fighter jets again until the subsidies stop.

          • shawn1999

            Corrections: 74% of the 3 bill must be spent on products from US companies (not sure if it must be military or not). then there’s the 300 mill which is dedicated to missile defense

          • Jamie
    • Tribulationtime

      No politics!.

  • Lance

    The Ospreys are for Israeli Air born and Spec ops they need longer range than UH-6 and UH-1 helicopters to strike at Iran and possibly Iraq, and northern Syria. So I be Black hawks will solder the regular Army while Ospreys will fly Israeli Commandos around the Mideast. Hope Israel upgrades there F-15 and f-16 fighters to match the new f16s that Obama sold Islamist Egypt and new MiG-29s Russia sold to Iran.

    • blight_

      The Egyptians don’t have an local aerospace industry; without companies like Elbit, Rafael and IAI what they get from the US is what they get.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      The F-15 can take the MiG-29, just saying. Also, the Israelis don’t exactly have bad pilots (Zivi Nadavi!)

      • tiger

        I could in a SPAD or a Mig 29. If the bad guy gets on your 6, your going down. Tech does not beat tactics.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Gulf War. Take a look at it. Also, F-15 kill score: 104.5 Victories. MiG-29? About 8-10 maybe 12 victories. Also, the F-15 has shot down 11 MiG-29’s. Link :http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-6179.html

          • tiger

            Even guys in second rate planes like P-40’s or Mig 19’s could be a ace. The rules of Oswald Boelcke’s rules for air combat have not changed since WW1. Just the toys used…..

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Oh, so Oswald factored in the missile? The P-40 or MiG-19’s gun don’t have the range of miles. And even with guns, the larger F-15 would probably take down any WWII aircraft, despite the fact it is the size of small of the smaller bombers of the 40’s. Two reasons for this: The F-15 has a higher speed and better climb rate than the 40’s aircraft, and modern guns are more accurate and advanced than the 50 cals of yesteryear. Finally, have you ever seen the Final Countdown?

          • tiger
          • USS ENTERPRISE

            “BVR missile shots are rare.” Oh boy. Man, have you like paid attention to the last 30 years of warfare? I agree with you point about tools, like a North Korean in an F-22 would be destroyed by a USAF pilot in a Sabre, but I am arguing about how using old tech, in this case, will be bad. I mean, at least in the F-22 and Sabre’s case, you have a few, I mean very VERY few similarities. But honestly, I seriously, I mean, SERIOUSLY disagree about no BVR. I mean c’mon.

          • tiger

            Study Air to air kills From 1960 on. Guns & sidewinders. Most of the work. Not Long range killers like the AIM -54. Also factor rules of engagement. Unless you can ID a target, Nobody will let you take long shots.

            Worst? The advantage of the F-22 is gone because the missiles do not work……… http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairw/articles/

            Back to Oswald rules…..

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Okay. Links. First one gives you air to air victories in the first Gulf War, take a not on the sheer number of AIM-7 victories (shot by F-15s, as well )http://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/
            The AIM-7, first paragraph, clearly says BVR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-7#cite_note-DTIC
            Oh, and do the AIM-120 not work on the F-22? Let me go ahead an say this, strap yourself into a fourth or fifth generation fighter, no a first generation one.

          • blight_

            He’s probably alluding to the quality control problem in ATK rocket motors for AMRAAM’s. A Norweigian supplier (Nammo?) is being used until that is resolved.
            http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Norwegia

          • tiger

            Morning Mr. Blight. A second but less talked about issue with the F-22. It’s long range punch is not there.
            As for Enterprise? My Head hurts still hours later.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Okay, even if the AMRAAM’s are using other rocket motors, they still have BVR range.

          • Lance

            Im saying we need to help Israel when Obama is helping thre bad guys like Egypt. And you can claim a MiG-17 can be a dangerous dog fighter. Look at Vietnam. Col Tomb and Col Nguyen Van Bay both few MiG-17s over F-4s ect and shot some down.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Uh, the F-15 and F-4 aren’t in the same class, no where near. F-15 will take down an F-4 without any trouble. Do you know how old the MiG-17 is? I doubt it can carry the latest and greatest Russian missiles.

          • Restore Palestine

            Ignorant loony, air combat is not solely about fighter vs fighter. The brains and experience of the pilots are far more important than the tools they use.

            Of course, your brain is so freaking defective it’s pointless to teach you anything that requires the use of the brain.

            Take your meds, loony.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Funny. Originally, you argued the EXACT opposite point. We are all assuming that pilot skill is equal right now. But even if it wasn’t, your MiG-17 from the god-forsaken Siberia can’t take an F-15.

    • Guest

      Sold ? The Madras educated leader GAVE the F16s and Abrams tanks to the Muslim Brotherhood.

    • frank1fm

      Israel will not use Ospreys to strike at Iran nor Iraq.How in the world is an Osprey going to reach Iran?So where in the world would they land commandos in Iraq or Iran and for what purpose?Ok,so let’s make believe they land commandos in Iran.Iran has a formidable military now.Very underestimated by the west.Iran is on constant vigilance against any sneak attack.So Israeli commandos are going to land in Iran,complete their mission,and the Ospreys will bring them back to Israel safe and sound.Right,but not in this lifetime.And Iran will forget to use their anti-aircraft missiles(Russian),or scramble their jets.

      • itamars

        formidable when fighting unarmed rioters.
        what makes it formidable to you?

    • Arby

      Sell some surface to air missiles to the Palestinians too.

  • Prodozul

    “Sorry for ignoring you guys please accept this gift”

    • blight_

      It’s more like

      “You have our permission to spend our dollars on this American product”

      At some point they’re going to respectfully decline our military aid, because it strangles their aerospace industry into an upgrade design house for American hardware, instead of being a fully independent industry that can design their own jets. They fly -16’s and -15’s because it’s cheaper than bootstrapping their own aircraft. They make their own tanks now, and it won’t be long before they start making their own aircraft again.

    • Kevin

      Ignored? Taken a look at how much foreign aid they receive from us?

      • shawn1999

        Yes, not as much as we send to A-stan, P-stan, and Egypt. All of which are pretty much hostile countries (OK, of course they aren’t hostile to our faces, but what half-intelligent enemy is?)

        • blight_

          Our money to Egypt was pre-programmed during the Mubarak days. Cutting military ties to Egypt is pretty much the last leverage we have. However, now would be a good time to hold back on shipping more M1 kits to Egypt…until we see things settle out.

          Paying the workers salaries in the meantime is the carrot, the stick is cutting off all military support. Egypt knows that without American aid for American hardware, they are sitting ducks for the next war. And Egypt doesn’t have the money to trash all their American hardware for new Russian gear. The longer the US is less keen to keep their army functional, the less effective the army is.

          The Army may even seize power from the Brotherhood if it seems that their lifeline to the west is cut. Army’s high command knows that an entrenched civilian authority with paramilitary forces can neutralize the guys at the top without disturbing the rest of the military-ensuring non-interference while generals hang. It worked in Iran.

          Anyone keen on an Egyptian military junta?

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Well, its not like we give them aircraft, support, and assistance.

  • Rosalee

    and we give Egypt how many F16s?

    • shawn1999

      I think it was exactly 4

    • blight_

      They buy ’em like everyone else.

      The last time we wholesale “bailed” out the Israelis was for the Yom Kippur War. Operation Nickel Grass. Transported aircraft and tanks, didn’t even bother removing the American markings. Let that be a sign of who America is banking on.

      Since then, Israel has moved along quite nicely.

      • Joe

        They didn’t get there in time to make a difference in the front lines, but they replaced the losses after the war though.

  • david

    The US Military can’t even afford to keep 50% of it’s planes flying right now and American taxpayers are footing the bill for Ospreys for Israel? You’ve got to be kidding me!

    • blight_

      Shh, they’ll think you’re anti-Israel. Hide, hide quick.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      But, won’t the US profit from the sales of the Osprey? And, its not 50%, its more like 20% at maximum.

    • shawn1999

      Its more like indirect Govt subsidy to keep the Americans who build them employed. US gives Israel $3 billion (74% must be spent with US companies).
      Israel buys $2.5 billion in American products
      American workers who make $2.5 billion in products stay employed
      Israel gets their military capabilities bolstered

      So, compared to just handing billions of dollars to the companies which created the financial problems, who in turn give that money as bonuses to their Execs instead of employing Americans, this is a much better idea.

      • shawn1999

        Oops- typoed- *Israel buys $2.25 billion

  • dicky

    u.s. does NOT sell anything to israel it’s a gift!! what is each one worth? 3-5 mil?

    • 5-7mil?

      bout $70 mil light on that number playa

    • Joe

      And the U.S. skips giving Korea a means to defend itself and instead defends it for her, to the tune of $15-42 BILLION dollars a year + the cost of training the U.S. troops and benefits + the original equipment costs.

      Israel is pennies in comparison with far greater gain.

  • USS ENTERPRISE

    Well, Israel already has rumors surrounding them that details them as using the same stealth helis used in Abottobad Raid. Perhaps, this sail is a unintended attempt to put down any of these rumors.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      I mean sale, not sail. TYPO!

  • Joe

    Might as well just turn one over to the chinese. along with the patriot and lavi etc.

  • tiger

    Congrats to Boeing Ridley Park!!! Good news to Boeing & the Workers in the area. I even for a change have to give the Administration for making some arms deals to Israel & the UAE. I hope this opens the door to other V-22 buyers. I just wish Agusta Westland could get some traction on it’s civil tilt rotor.

    • Kevin

      How is taking tax payer dollars to give to Israel, to give to Boeing, thus making Boeing more profitable any different than using tax payer dollars for GM? Same damn thing, only we’re also helping finance another nation’s defense through the gifts while our own military gets shorted… Brilliant.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Uh, huh? Our military gets shorted? The US spends almost 700 Billion in the military. Israel is nowhere near that.

      • shawn1999

        Kevin,
        The answer is: Because this way, the money isn’t being handed over to the Execs as bonuses- it must be given to keep the workers employed.

        • shawn1999

          Oh, and the workers who make the materials that are needed to put the MS-22s together, plus those who deliver the materials from the manufacturing point to the assembly point, etc all the way back to to the mining of the ore/manufacture of the raw materials & delivery to the first fabrication point

        • blight_

          You can’t pick where your dollar goes. You give money to Boeing. It pays salaries of all involved, plus outside consultants, plus other expenses and the rest is profit.

          Execs get bonuses no matter what. Even if the company must die, like Hostess.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Same thing really. I mean the twinkie is just as important as the 777.

  • Steve B.

    Lost among this is the comment that we are giving ?, Israel KC-135’s. That’s probably more important then a few V-22’s.

    As much as anything, it’s a message to Iran that somewhere down the road, we are perfectly happy to let Israel do the dirty work.

    The V-22’s along side the KC-135’s give Israeli commando’s the reach to hit Iranian facilities.

  • larry

    Israel spies on America almost as much as China and Russia yet we give Israel 5+ billion dollars every year with no end in sight. This is insanity.

    • tiger

      We spend $77 Billion on a Education Dept. that does not educate one kid Or run a school. Stop crying…..

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        For once, I agree. Education department is a joke here in the USA. I mean, what is Common Core suppose to do?

    • Restore Palestine

      Do you know the number of Jews in the US government (the White House, Congress, and Supreme Court and Federal Courts), think-tanks, executive and BOD offices in giant multi-national corporations, influential law firms, …?

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Obama is not a Jew. And in any case, what has that got to do with anything? The US has widely recognized freedom of religion. Stop being jealous of the Jews.

        • Restore Palestine

          Your meds, loony. Your meds.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Apollo 15

          • Rivercityrandall

            Hey Enterprise,
            Look up in your naval history book and read about the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty Jun 8 1967. Go to the Web site USS Liberty.com. It has nothing to do with religion it about a country who has spied on our country for over 50yrs or more and KIA 34 &WIA 173 of your fellow navy men.

  • Omar

    The Israelis have bowed to pressure from Bell-Boeing and agree to accept a few free V-22s for air shows. That nation never buys U.S. military hardware, it just uses American credits. Same with Egypt.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      And the F-15 and F-16 don’t exist. Oh wait, yes they do. And they are in service with the Israelis.

      • Tome

        The Israeli’s get several billion dollars in American aid each year, much of that is in the form of credits to “buy” American weapons. They use our money to buy weapons from contractors. A great racket.

        • tiger

          Would you prefer they buy from somebody else?

          • Restore Palestine

            That’s NOT “buying from America”, you moron. They have been getting the stuff for free, as donations forced upon US taxpayers by the US government under undue influence.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Israeli and Saudi Arabia are the only allies we really have in that area (Iraq is messed up, Iran is, well, Iran, all the other countries in that area are in some state of war). So we should treat the well, until at least we can convince our “leaders” into drilling oil in Yosemite (deep underground), making a pipeline form Alaska, and funding “clean” energy. That said though, we can’t allow our allies to have robbers run into their own air bases and steal freakin’ JET ENGINES.

          • Restore Palestine

            BS ENTERPRISE mental BS.

            enough said.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Not really. But, whatever. US astronauts landed on the moon. That, my friend, is ‘enough said’.

    • tiger

      These are not free.

  • Brad

    This is great news for both the makers of the Osprey and Israel. They will now be able to assault Fordo on the ground if needed. They do not have the bombs to do it from the air, they will now be able to do it from the ground. No one has said that in the article or comments, but I cannot see another practical reason from Israeli’s standpoint. They can reach Gaza, the West Bank, and Syria by helicopter, but need the extended range and speed of the Osprey to get to Fordo.

    • majr0d

      They can get to Fordow without Ospreys. It’s getting out that’s the problem.

      They aren’t going to do either though. Frodo is exceptionally well defended. A small team isn’t getting in and getting out. The Israelis can’t put battalions on the groundlet alone buy a fleet of Ospreys to extract them.

      Smaller raids, yes. Fordow, no.

      • blight_

        Indeed, their best bet on Fordo is to use saboteurs on the inside. The efficacy of saboteurs is limited.

      • Brad

        majr0d, I wouldnt under estimate the Israelis (just ask the Ugandans). You are right that it is very well defended, but thats someting that can be taken care of by prepping the area first with air strikes.

        Sabateurs are the better option, and they have been doing that, but it has not been enough.

        The only other option is nuking the place, and thats not a real option for many reasons.

        • majr0d

          Not underestimating Israel. Well aware of Entebbe, a100 man raid. Fordow has a nearby division and is underground with barracks complex and air defense. Your talking about an exponentially larger and longer operation. As i’ve said elsewhere. Getting in is easy. It’s getting out that’s hard.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Really, I would just launch a bunch of tomahawks/ cruise missiles to this Fordo. That, or establish air-superiority and then bomb it out using a couple of B-1Bs. Or send in one or two B-2s without air superiority. Or yes, use saboteurs.

          • majr0d

            Israel doesn’t have tomahawks/cruise missles and Fordow is deep underground. Manned heavy bombers (that Israel doesn’t have), nukes and raids are the only effective tools.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Well, they can call on their ally, at least, that was my reference. I specifically added in US bombers because, anyone want to fill in the blank?

          • STemplar

            They probably have a Popeye variant that is sub launched, although l doubt they could launch enough from their few subs.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            If the Israeli government is desperate enough, they could nuke the place with their possible stockpile they have. Though, the amount of flack they would get would be, well, terrible.

          • Restore Palestine

            BS ENTERPRISE mental is now officially a murderous lunatic, who belongs in a high security mental asylum.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Well you would know they best one around, now wouldn’t you?

          • Restore Palestine

            You meant “the best one around”? No, I don’t. But it doesn’t matter. I think you should be in the worst one around. You’ve been to one before, haven’t you?

            What makes you think you deserve such a huge upgrade, loony?

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Funny. You went from Nazi sympathizer to Grammar Nazi.

          • Brad

            MajorD and USS Enterprise. My comment was assuming that Israel goes it alone. Obviously the best option is a couple B2s with that new 30,000 pound buster. Short of that it may take a series of battering air strikes followed by somewhat large (300-500) ground operation.

          • Brad

            MajorD, the Osprey solves the getting out part, I think thats why they got it. They would not be able to use conventional aircraft for the exact point that you made (paratroopers would jump out of the plane but that plane could not land and pick them back up). However an Osprey can land on a nearby road or flat piece of desert. If they add more weapons they may even be able to provide LAS during the operation. I know Uganda was a smaller example, that was also 36 (?) years ago. You gotta be more forward thinking.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Yeah okay. But what about, say, four or five F-15E’s with the 2000 pound JDAMS or Bunker Busters? Don’t Israel have access to these things?

  • jamesb

    For the guys here that have figured out the US IS giving the Israeli’s the tools to handle stuff in theatre…

    Congradulations!

  • Tribulationtime

    I read in a local newspaper what one senate comission had approve a law (or something like that) to pass to the Senate. It compel US goverment to aid Israel “economical, diplomatic and militarly” in case Israel attack Iran. Is this true?. First to answer note i have little knowledge of US politics mechanics

    • blight_
    • blight_

      Note the following:

      SEC. 2. RULES OF CONSTRUCTION.

      Nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization
      for the use of force or a declaration of war.

      Then also note a replacement:

      The following was replaced:
      (8) urges that, if the Government of Israel is
      compelled to take military action in self-defense, the United
      States Government should stand with Israel and provide
      diplomatic, military, and economic support to the Government of
      Israel in its defense of its territory, people, and
      existence.
      —————————-
      With this:
      (8) urges that, if the Government of Israel is compelled to
      take military action in legitimate self-defense against Iran’s
      nuclear weapons program, the United States Government should
      stand with Israel and provide, in accordance with United States
      law and the constitutional responsibility of Congress to
      authorize the use of military force, diplomatic, military, and
      economic support to the Government of Israel in its defense of
      its territory, people, and existence.

      The big change is adding language relating to the nuclear weapons program, the phrasing “legitimate self-defense” and “in accordance with United States
      law and the constitutional responsibility of Congress”

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        The nuclear weapons program addition is hardly surprising. You have a state that is developing nuclear weapons, with oil rich emirates surrounding it. The oil is the only thing that is keeping the Middle East in the game. When its gone, ooh is that going to be chaotic.

    • Tribulationtime

      So it´s a statement of intent, only. I understand that help it is granted but not in the exact terms. Or Is it a opinion from Senate without further implications?. Thanks you all.

  • Clifton Mitchell

    “…to guard as a threat against Iran.” Just what threat would that be? Seems to me that most of the threat is coming from Israel and the US against Iran. The quoted aforementioned statement was included in this piece of ‘journalism’ to enforce US and Israeli fabrications in the minds of the mindless. And, oh what a deal it is. The US forks over billions of dollars to Israel so that Netanuahu can write checks to the military-industrial war merchants, and they in-turn fill their coffers with American taxpayer money that they would otherwise not get. I doubt that my comment will find its way on this forum as it will be deemed “beyond acceptable”.

    • yesjb

      You sound like Father Coughlin and the Nazi Bund in the U.S.
      Congratulations! You might want to take the wool out of your eyes.
      If you think the Iranianmullahs are just soooo misunderstood and that they’re going to stop at Israel than I have a bridge for you to buy in Brooklyn

      • Restore Palestine

        yesjb, what else are you good at besides saying “yes” as a job to whatever BS the US government throws at you?

        Clifton Mitchell has demonstrated independent and critical thinking. He’s right on about the facts. You have got nothing but BS and slander.

        • crackedlenses

          “Clifton Mitchell has demonstrated independent and critical thinking.”

          Incidentally he’s also completely wrong.

          Oh, for the record: Arabian Gulf.

          • Restore Palestine

            BS ENTERPRISE mental BS. enough said.

          • yesjb

            Palestine has been restored!
            Unfortunately yours and Mitchell’s inability to think at all is aptly demonstrated by your continously puerile attempts at “comments”
            Did you have to run to Wiki to find out who Father Coughlin was?
            Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe your wretched posts!

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Thats not even me. I am too busy laughing at your failure to understand modern society, sinister oaf.

          • Restore Palestine

            BS ENTERPRISE mental BS.

            enough said.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Apollo 11!

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Ah yes, I forgot. US astronauts landed on the moon.

    • Doubtom

      Yeah, and probably anti-semitic too because it hews so closely to the truth.

    • Uzi lowenthal

      I do believe that irfan is a real and life threatening threat …. On the other hand I agree that USA taxpayer dues are given to Israel and that the money returns to the USA for equipment purchases. If you are against this setup …your admirable democratic system allows for this to be discontinued if enough people decide that militairy aid to Israel is no longer a USA interest.by the way usa money in Israeli- USA militairy project s are often very fruitful.by the way ….I do hope that Arab countries with lots ans lots of USA hardware will enter Syria … And not the USA or Israel.

  • STemplar
  • STemplar
  • Thunder350

    Did anyone start the clock yet to see how long it takes for Israel to sell yet another one of our technologies to the Chinese.. again…?

    • Jay

      uh, it was the Pakistanis who gave China access to the F16

      The Israelis sold China plans for a fighter they never built, because the F16 was better. China never built it either.

      Clinton let the Chinese walk away with the blueprints for our nuclear arsenal in exchange for donations. China is building new warheads and missiles.

      You know, a lot of the tech advantages we enjoy, including HUD systems in our aircraft, social networking, and thumbdrives are Israeli inventions that they share with us. What have Pakistan and China given us?

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Well, let me point this out. America gave the world the most important bit of weapon technology: the Airplane.

        • Restore Palestine

          You forgot to sign your post: BS from BS ENTERPRISE, patent pending.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Get out man, nobody likes you, and you make no sense.

          • Restore Palestine

            Where do you get the idea that people here (the sane ones) like you and your lunatic BS?

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            You seen how badly you have been downrated? Anyways, Hubble Telescope!

          • Restore Palestine

            Not anywhere nearly as bad as I have been hoping to see, especially from people with split / multiple personality disorders. Maybe you can help. I was hoping to get at least a few hundred down votes for every post.

            Do you think you can get your mental asylum cell mates to help?

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            I don’t even have to say something. Just read your own comment, and that is humiliating enough for you.

      • blight_

        Israeli Fighter: Kfir, which was never as good as the -16 and especially not as cheap. The -16 killed the Israeli aircraft industry, the Northrop F-5 and perhaps the F-18L.

        Two. Loral had a satellite launch in China (why?!?), the launch failed, and Loral supplied them with proprietary rocket launch system information which had potential BM usage. Blame Clinton, you say?

        Re HUD: http://books.google.com/books?id=ESR4-pns2JMC&amp

        Early HUD is post-WW2, when Israel was still a kibbutz society fighting for survival. Good guys, but the HUD, really?

        Did you mean Helmet Mounted Display? The South Africans and the Soviets were first, but the Israelis did it best with Elbit dash.

        Social networking: ?

        Thumbdrive: http://www.google.com/patents/US6148354

        First patent to the Israelis, but as we all know, patent isn’t necessarily the same as developing the finished product.

        The invention is essentially legal protection for the device of the following:

        “What is claimed is:
        1. A USB flash memory device for connecting to a USB-defined bus, the flash memory device comprising:

        (a) at least one flash memory module for storing data;

        (b) a USB connector for connecting to the USB-defined bus and for sending packets on, and for receiving packets from, the USB-defined bus;

        (c) a USB controller for controlling said at least one flash memory module and for controlling said USB connector according to at least one packet received from the USB-defined bus, such that data is written to and read from said at least one flash memory module;

        …”

        And to answer your question, I have no idea what Pakistan has given us, asides from the Kargil War with India, giving away the stealth helicopter pieces, the Taliban and destabilizing Afghanistan so thoroughly that it will probably cause the Pashtun tribesmen to go out killing Pakistanis.

        The Chinese have given us bottom-dollar manufacturing to contribute to the demise of non-Asian manufacturing.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          The chinese sweatshops are the reason why the US economy is slowing; its because the USA export business is little. Now, our defense contractors are making serious profit, but most companies have shipped jobs overseas because its cheaper. Of course, I would like to see the jobs back here. At the very least, Apple, make your entire line-up made in the USA. I am tired of seeing that phrase on the back of all iDevices (Designed in California, assembled in China). Pakistan hasn’t give us much. In addition to points you mentioned, they also have been a barrier between the USA and India, in terms of relations, but in recent years, they have kinda been ignored. It seems that the US made the same judgement call about Pakistan as it made about Iran. It might have been stable when we sold them F-16s and whatnot, but now, practically half the country is run by the Taliban. Especially bad considering they have nuclear weapons (how, I don’t know). By the way, in terms of technology, the USA has or had Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Two giants in technology, and they started American companies. iPhone lives long!

          • Restore Palestine

            Remember to sign your BS posts: BS by BS ENTERPRISE, patent pending.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Apollo 12.

      • Gaylord_Gaylordson

        “Clinton let the Chinese walk away with the blueprints for our nuclear arsenal in exchange for donations. China is building new warheads and missiles.”

        Bullshit. Drivel.

      • Restore Palestine

        China has been subsidizing the US to the tune of about a couple of hundred billions a year.

        • Thunder350

          Their entire economy and budget depends on the US buying their cheap junk. America stops importing Chinese goods their economy tanks. Whereas in the US prices will just get higher and will put Americans back to work due to the increase of demand in goods. :)

          • Restore Palestine

            Your very misinformed opinion based on false information and lame propaganda from US mainstream media aka propaganda apparatus.

    • Giosue

      Hey dummy, China and Israel hate each other. China has ties with the Muslim world which has our equipment, and Muslims give our equipment over.

      • Thunder350

        You really need to know what your talking about before you post something. There are CIA reports (found publicly online by a quick Google search) that say Israel has been selling military tech to China for over a decade.

  • yesjb

    Oh, you mean like the Pakistanis??
    The Chinese seem to have no trouble stealing your secrets on their own!

    • Restore Palestine

      What “secrets” have the Chinese stolen, yesjob?

      I’ll bet the farm that it’s nothing compared to the hundreds of billions of dollars the US steals from China and other countries every year.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        Oh ho, ha ha. Secrets China has stolen. Brother, are you even from this century? Almost all of the cyber attacks on American companies and the government are from China. Just a few articles ago, it was discussed that a US official who knew classified information about our missile interceptors, passed along info to a Chinese spy. US stealing form China? Walmart. Thats it. Oh, and US astronauts landed on the moon. And neither your beloved down turned Russia or its cheap lying, stealing China has landed men on the moon.

        • Restore Palestine

          Take your psychiatric meds NOW, loony.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Apollo 16

  • USS ENTERPRISE

    Yeah, who actually allows engines to be stolen from their own air base? We should be careful with dealing with these folk. But in this case, what purpose would giving information about the Osprey will they have? I mean, its really just a transport or extraction/infiltration tilt rotor.

    • Restore Palestine

      Take your meds, loony.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        That doesn’t even make sense.

        • Restore Palestine

          Just take the goddamn meds first, loony. Sense will come to you eventually (I hope).

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            The next Apollo Mission is 13, which is special because while it didn’t land on the moon, it probably had one of the most noteworthy missions in the history of spaceflight. Other than Apollo 11 and the pioneers.

      • to the Stone Age

        Try taking YOURS first.

  • Whatson

    The Osprey to Israel?

    I wonder how long it will take until China ‘miraculously’ gets their hand on some from the Israelis.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Nah. China would just shamelessly copy the Osprey, but somehow get all the important bits wrong.

  • Ariel

    We IAF want the CH-53K, which is the same size as the V-22 but has more range and five times more payload, and can carry a HUMMMER (the K not the E). But no one will buy the V-22 turd (its listed range is half that claimed) and the Marines must cut their order, so we were asked to help out and take some for our museums.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Once again, what happened to the Chinook?

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Oh, and you might want to read some other comments about why the V-22 was bought. Very enlightening, honestly.

    • Steve B.

      Well, no. The CH-53K has a range of about 450 nm, the V-22 about 880nm. The CV22 variant carries extra fuel as well, so much better range then a CH53. Plus the speed factor.. Payload may not be a factor if it’s a team of commando’s.

      In any event the one-way range from somewhere in Israel to “somewhere” in Iran is roughly 1000nm, so refuel if needed, which you can do with the CV-22 variant, but would need a SO varient of the CH53 to do. It’s a mission that’s not suitable for a helicopter.

      • blight_

        The -53 can carry a Humvee, or maybe a Wiesel if you needed to.

        An Osprey is deploying light infantry, maybe that sad little Growler, or COTS Gators.

    • Guest

      Might want to ask for license to build the CH-53 or look at the Boeing C-47, Sikorsky is no doubt content building Blackhawks and it’s variants. Given the financial toll Obama healthcare is taking on companies, economy of scale would be on their minds. Since Sikorsky is based in Connecticut, the extreme gun paranoia of their politicians prohibits their law abiding workings from protecting themselves.

      • USS ENTERPRISE

        How did we get to gun control? I mean, on Defense Tech, of all places?

    • nolan

      I think you’d rather have the CH-46D, it’s slower than the CH-53K, has less range and payload. It’s hard to accept that revolutionary technology such as the V-22 is actually better than the tool that’s been used for decades.

    • Papi1960R

      You speak the truth. The V-22 has great range, when its empty and flown at altitude in a straight line. Watched the Marines in Helmand. They fly to about 40 Kms from their target. land, swap their troops and equipment into Marine CH-46s or Army CH-47s to fly in the final leg to their air assault. Everybody in Southern Afghanistan has seen this. That Osprey is too valuable to do its mission and get damaged. Only USAF Special Forces and Combat SAR use the damn aircraft properly. It does look good at airshows.

      • blight_

        “They fly to about 40 Kms from their target. land, swap their troops and equipment into Marine CH-46s or Army CH-47s to fly in the final leg to their air assault.”

        …I hope you’re kidding.

    • jgkjbj

      you the IAF can suck my sweaty sour balls.

  • Guest

    Why has NOBODY called out Mr KGB, Putin for upgrading Iran’s SAMs and Air to Air capability? Why has NOBODY called out the fact that the impotent anti-semtic UN has done nothing to stop or slow IRAN or North Korean. ? Why has NOBODY called out China for allowing their proxy to push the world to the brink? Why has NOBODY called out Russia for their work on the Iranian Nuclear program? I know the answers, I’m not Jewish… just saying.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Uh, because the world is gripped with anti- American sentiment and don’t see the photographic and intelligence proof that Russia will talk about “peace” and limiting its trade with “evils” with the USA and then turns around and proceeds to negotiate opening more top secret lumber camps in Siberia with NK, or trying to hold talks to sell their MiGs and Sukhois to unstable countries like Iran and giving arms to rebels and pirates in Africa. China is kinda the same.

      • Restore Palestine

        Take your meds, BS ENTERPRISE mental.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Hmph. So the Chinese military, the North Monkeys I MEAN Koreans, the Uranium enriched Iranians, and other terrorist states operate American supplied equipment? NO. Have you seen the exported MiG-29’s out there?

          • Restore Palestine

            Loony, take your psychiatric meds NOW!

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            Apollo 14

          • blight_

            Technically Iran still has some American gear: the C-130’s, the 707’s, the Chinooks, possibly F-5’s, F-4’s and F-14’s.

      • Papi1960R

        Selling arms and aircraft to unstable nations. Glad we didn’t pump $billions and $billions of dollars into Iraq and Afghanistan, or even Egypt and our Nazi-Muslims buddys, the Saudis

    • Restore Palestine

      BS ENTERPRISE mental. Enough said.

    • Papi1960R

      Because we have and have had very weak leadership for many years. Our President cares about what others say about him, not what they say about the USA. China, N. Korea, Iran and Mr. Putin in Russia don’t give a hoot about what we think or say.

  • guest

    Obviously the UN and our “friends” in Russia and China can not or will not stop nuclear proliferation to countries with emotionally unstable leadership. One of the next steps our naive bong leaders will no doubt be our nuclear disarmament. How about we provide some of those to Israel, Taiwan, South Korea and George (the former Soviet occupied not the State). If you can’t stop them, a little balance of power might scare them straight.
    The Republic of Texas should be given a few as well.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Republic of Texas? Look up CGP Grey on Youtube, he covered the topic well. Now, currently, our nuclear stockpile is larger than Iran and NK COMBINED. And that is assuming that Iran has a nuke WHICH IT DOESN’T. Other nuclear countries know that nuclear warfare equals MAD. No need for it; none of the other nuclear states are crazy enough to use nuclear weapons. Russia and China will bark, and bite. But they will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever go to a nuclear war. Ever.

      • Jay

        “none of the other nuclear states are crazy enough to use nuclear weapons.”

        So far…
        One of the Iranian leaders said he doesn’t care about getting nuked as long as they wipe out little satan (Israel) and great satan (USA).

        The Soviets were also raving idealogues, but they wanted to make a socialist paradise in this world. The Iranians and jihadis believe their paradise is heaven, so they don’t care about this world and MAD. They are crazy enough to believe their own gospel, so deterrance won’t work.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Okay. I think I stated that. But to be clear. ONLY NK and Iran would use nukes, and of those two countries, only one is known to have operational nukes.

          • Restore Palestine

            BS ENTERPRISE loony, the US is the ONLY country to have used nukes on another country.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            How can you be so obtuse? I didn’t say if the US used nukes or not. I was talking about currently, like today.

          • Restore Palestine

            I am not aware that Iran or NK have currently used nukes on another country. But then I’m not a murderous lunatic like you are. Keep your hallucinations and BS to yourself, mental.

          • USS ENTERPRISE

            I didn’t say that. READ. I said they would be the only ones who would consider using nuclear weapons. By the way, Apollo 8.

          • Restore Palestine

            Yeah, you loony really have this gift of premonition that normal people lack. Did you foresee any of your trips to the nuthouse by any chance?

            Remember to take your meds, you BS’ing nutjob.

  • Dooubtoom

    You need to increase the capabilities of Israel’s in a significant way??? What the hell do you think nuclear weapons re if not the most significant?

    • blight_

      Funny, the bomb didn’t do a hell of a lot for Middle East peace. They possibly had them for Yom Kippur, and it didn’t stop Egypt or Syria (nor did it get that far).

      Nukes only deter when you’ve convinced everyone you will use them. Israel has failed to convince anyone of that, mostly because their conventional forces have been so effective against their neighbors that deterrence without nukes is already proven possible.

      If anything, it drives nuclear proliferation by Israel’s neighbors.

      • Jay

        The Israeli nukes are 40 years old. The Muslim countries have been interested in nukes for less than 20 years. It seems to be response to the danger of getting “regime change” from internal or external forces, a la the Shah or Iraq. A working nuke means no one can depose you. Saddam Hussein’s mistake was believing he could get protection from a chem program, or maybe he thought his program was more advanced than it was. I suspect Iran has learned from his mistake.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Well, in comparison, US and Russian nukes are as old, if not more so.

      • crackedlenses

        “If anything, it drives nuclear proliferation by Israel’s neighbors.”

        Israel’s neighbors want Israel wiped off the map. If conventional ground forces did not work (and they haven’t), then nukes would have been a logical progression irregardless of whether Israel possessed them or not.

        • USS ENTERPRISE

          Yes, but if we are honest here, Israel also has nukes. Iran would have to be VERY dumb to use nukes. But then again, they did make the Qaher 313……..

  • Michael

    Guess Israel is immune from the sequester. Imagine that.

  • steve

    How about we demand Israel stop spying on America before we give them 1 more US taxpayer dollar or advanced weapon!

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      Because we get no profit.

  • Robert Pave

    This arms deal involves SALES to those concerned; these are not gifts to Israel, the UAE or Saudi Arabia. Boeing and Lockheed Martin need the profits. The price comes out of the $3 billion we give to Israel. Israel is required to spend the $3 billion money on purchases from the United States. Thus, we are in effect subsidizing our own defense industry. Israel makes numerous upgrades to all that it purchases from us and gives us the technology for free.

    Israel has never given any secrets away to China or any country other than the United States.

    • USS ENTERPRISE

      “Needs the profit”? Okay, Lockheed ranks as the #1 defense contracting company for the past few years. Boeing has been around the 2-3 range. Need the money? Think again.

  • Soloman

    Nov 19, 2012. Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer told Fox News on Monday that Israel had a right to defend itself from terrorist attacks but “no country has a right to exist.

    -by David Edwards

  • Soloman

    We spend around 8.4 million a day on Israel. (3.1 billion divided by 365 days). Bell BOEING V-22 Osprey – Price: $68 Million (Approximate). So we’ll just give them 4 Osprey’s per month for FREE and keep the billions of dollars to ourselves. Since we have so many Ospreys that we don’t know what to do with. I believe it’s called SEQUESTRATION!?!?!

    • Joe

      And guess how much you spend on Korea?

      The U.S. skips giving Korea a means to defend itself alone and instead defends it for her, to the tune of $15-42 BILLION dollars a year + the cost of training the U.S. troops and benefits + the original equipment costs.

  • Jorge_Banner
  • M/Sgt USMC-Ret

    Weapons To Israel.

    I worked with the IDF, They are very good at what they do. The only Democratic Government in the Middle East. Sure they Spy on us as we Spy on them.Israel has never asked for American troops to fight their wars, 1948,1956,1967 and 1974. Not like our other allies, IE France,United Kingdom andKorea. Give them the tools and save American Lives It’s a Win-Win.

  • Guest

    V-22 = clunker coffin. Let Israel (and China) have all of them.

  • Giosue

    I’m all for this, Israel is America’s greatest friend. No, I am not Jewish, just an American with an Italian background that recognizes how faithful Israel is to American policy, well definitely more then the Muslim world will ever be. I would rather the entire American pull back from every single country, and just keep a strong alliance with Israel.

  • Papi1960R

    Israel is also getting advanced radars for their F-35s. Translation the US is hoping Israeli Aircraft and electronics firms sort out all of the electronic and software problems in our systems.

    • crackedlenses

      Considering the mess we’ve made of it, this just might work.

    • blight_

      Dear Elbit,

      If you get it to work, let us know how.

      ~Lockheed

  • GlobalStrat

    The US has been giving hardware away for a long time now. It gives to many nations such as Taiwan, UK, Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and so on. It’s for reasons such as:

    1) Said nation needs to be appeased to provide co-operation because that nation is located in a geographical hotspot

    2) Said nation contributes other things

    3) The nations share a common goal in some way

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