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Posted by: va498129 at December 31, 2007 09:09 AM

-----------

-----The "Rhinos" are the same for the troupe in Iraq, as the "Elephants" were for the Russians in the Gulag.

Posted by: Frank S. Calco at August 24, 2005 02:51

-----By the above comment I posted then--8-24-05,
I assumed the fact would be known by those that read Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn's books on the prison camps in the Soviet Union of WW2--by the prisoners refering to the camps as "Elephants"--
meaning they were locked.... in and safe from outside forces-- as our soldeirs in Iraq would be in the "Rhinos".----however........

----frankCC---Chio....

Posted by: Francesco Calco at December 2, 2007 02:59 PM

Body armor isnt the only short sighted Iraq war supply quirk i want to talk about. Why didnt our government seriously invest any thought in or even concieve of fielding major technology in specialized armored heavy and light heavy trucks and light trucks years before the war in Iraq. Winning or loosing could depend on it. Thousands of our troops are vulnerable each day driving tin can un armored death traps. A good portion of the death and chaos in iraq for US troops seems to stem from attacks from IEDs,RPGs,and truck bombs involving convoys with conventional un armored or poorly armored trucks and hummers. Major blunder not investing in armored trucks long before the war.

Posted by: teeuwe at May 3, 2007 03:24 AM

Does anyone have the specs on the Rhino, more to the point, the armor? The vehicle has supposedly taken RPG (RPG-7?) hits and lived to tell about it. That's hard to believe considering nothing short of extesive use of ceramics, slat armor, ERA or ADS would stop an RPG-7 attack. The picture above depictes the Rino as a fairly thin-skined looking vehicle. It's not that RPG-7 protection couldn't be given to the thing, but why? What is the Rhino's mission BTW?

"Until three months ago, the only safe ways [Rhino] to move diplomats, contractors and others working for the government between the airport and the Green Zone..."

"The buses, each weighing about 13 tons and featuring bullet-resistant glass and 12 gun ports..."

Diplomats and contractors need gun ports? I don't get it.

I assume the Rino is not designed to replace a more heavily armored APC, but apperently to suppliment them by taking over some of the less strenious tasks. I highly doubt the US will be ferring any of it troops into front line combat in Rhinos. LIC (low intensity conflict) in urban terrain is a whole new ball game for the US and it's no surprise that they are turning to the Israelis for adivce/hardware (come on they've literaly had decades worth of experince in LIC). BTW, the Israelis have something similar to it, the Wolf and their "Rhino": http://www.israeli-weapons.com/israeli_weapons_vehicles_light-combat.html

It's my belief that we will begin to see family(s) of specialized vehicles for LIC in urban terrain. Vehicles that are so mission-specific that they will look rather odd when placed aside a AFV such as a Bradley or similar vehicle for two reasons:

1. one the vehicles are built to satisfy a different criteria (IE: different mission, or to better fulfill similar mission)

2. they're like nothing else in the US arsenal. the US has little experence in LIC in recent years and has had to get by with exisiting vehicles in it's inventory by thrusting them into situations that the vehicles may not have been designed for, or excell at.

Comparing two different vehicles,designed for different missions, and saying vehicle XXX1 is better or worse than vehicle XXX2 without comparing missions is just silly.

Posted by: Daren at March 16, 2006 03:36 AM

can anyone tell me how much $$$ is costs to get a ride from the IZ to BIAP? Is it easy to catch a ride on it?

Posted by: Operator at January 9, 2006 10:47 AM

You are correct Connor.
US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.
One day=2000
3 years=2000
If people want to debate the war and politics at least make sure you actually know what your talking about!!! you're obviously connected to the internet so put it to good use and google the issues!
On the subject of the bus:
I think the rhino is very cool and I would feel safe driving on one (I may even get to as I am a photojournalist) but I would still prefer an APC. As for the troops I think between the upgraded humvees, M113's and M2 Bradley IFV's they are pretty well covered (though the millitary has got to stop transporting people in those flatbed trucks-IED and RPG magnet)

Posted by: Mariposa at November 28, 2005 07:51 PM

I rode around in a soft-skinned humvee minus doors wearing vietnam-era body armor in summer 2003. Now I have brand new body armor (hell, they just gave us new and improved plates...again!) and all the hmmwvs that leave the base have all the armor the powertrain can take, and then some. We spend tons of money replacing trannies on these things cause of all the armor plating. Would people quit whining and complaining about "Why don't the soldiers get to ride the bus"? How about "Because it can't shoot back"? We're so much better protected now than we were 2.5 years ago!

Oh, and in case you missed it, the death toll just hit 2000. That's fewer than two per day. One of them was my commo guy a few months ago, but 2000 casualties in almost 3 years? That's incredibly low, when you think about it. That's, what, an afternoon's worth in some past wars.

Posted by: Connor at October 26, 2005 11:17 AM

I can't believe all the fuss about why "only diplomats and contactors" get to ride "the bus". First of all, that isn't true. Anyone going in the same direction can get a ride, if there's room. How many "diplomats and contractors" do you think ride the "bus route" on a nightly basis? Get real, State Department personnel might have priority, but they're a tiny minority of bus passengers.

Second, there's the question of numbers. We own five rhinos. There are tens of thousands of soldiers in Baghdad...hmmmm....

Okay, look at the two methods of travel used by soldiers, helicopter and humvee. Well, it's been a while since a helicopter got shot down, so I imagine that's a bit safer than the rhino. And what's wrong with a soldier on his way back from leave getting a ride in a humvee? Isn't that what he does on a daily basis anyway? Ride around Baghdad in a Humvee?

Posted by: Baghdaddy at October 26, 2005 11:07 AM

THANKS FOR LOVING THE BUS. BUT HOW STUPID ARE WE TOO ANNOUNCE WHO WE TRANSPORT ON IT... THANKYOU ALL I FELL ALOT SAFER NOW THAT ALL THE IRAQ'S KNOW.... LETS THINK BEFORE WE WRITE CLASSIFIED INFO ON THE NET....

Posted by: SPC.SEUFFERT at October 3, 2005 08:29 AM

The "Rhinos" are the same for the troupe in Iraq,
as the "Elephants" were for the Russians in the
Gulag.

Posted by: Frank S. Calco at August 24, 2005 02:51 PM

I was on the Rhino Bus Last November, when it was hit by the Suicide bomber. A blue BMW 3 series, fairly new one too. I watched the vehicle come across the waste ground to our right swerve inbetween the secound vehicle and the first, which i was sat in the back seat of. It was between the two vehicles about 8m from us when the guy detonated. He was an arab (obviously) around 22 - 26 years old wearing a blue checked shirt and was clean shaven. This i remember vividly cos as an ex-military type with many years active service behind me, i thought "were done for here". But thanks to this remarkable vehicle i am still here.
I have also done the same route several times since then in the Rhino, and feel very safe my life is in good hands.
Three cheers for the Rhino gets my vote.

Posted by: Neil at July 24, 2005 12:13 PM

I am proud of the job the military is doing. The people of Iraq are suffering, but they don't complain because they are happy for the freedom we have given them. They have newspapers now, thousands of them. They have debate on the radio and on tv. They can vote, and demonstrate in the streets. The men of Saudi Arabia voted for the first time not too long ago. Women in Saudi Arabia may vote in the near future. Someday, women in Saudi Arabia may even drive! We are welcoming a civilization into the 21st century, you have to expect some turmoil.
The buses are needed for the diplomats and VIPs. Soldiers can shoot and scoot.

Posted by: Jim at July 17, 2005 09:07 PM

Brad. I appreciate your thoughtful posting. I admire the way you stated the facts without using profanity. I totally agree. All you "over there" I know its hard to ignore the ignorant, but continue to do so. By telling these people they're immature, does nothing. They're selfish and immature and should be IGNORED. They are a waste of space and are few among many. They do not account for the majority. We here support you and what you are doing. God Bless You All!! Thank you for your sacrifice and your sense of duty. Semper Fi.

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Posted by: Hans Blix at July 9, 2005 12:32 PM

Yap, yap, yap. I wish you underclass peasants would quit making such a clamor. Can't you see I'm sitting in my mansion relaxing and playing golf? Just get out there and protect the contractors as we secure the oil. We'll let you know when you can come back. Please, just don't try to rub elbows with us when (most of you) get back either, you're just not in the same class. Now, say "Sir, yes sir" and be on your way.

Posted by: G.W.B. at June 26, 2005 10:00 AM

There have been some interesting comments regarding using APCs such as the M113 to safely transport American troops through dangerous areas, such as:

=============
This bus could never be able to handle the same sort of punishment as proper APCs, for instance both in all-terrain capability as well as in the ability to withstand mines and IEDs.

and

The BUS however, is a temporary solution to a nagging problem. My personal favorite solution is to equip units with M113's, an aging, but cheap solution to urban and insurgent operations. Lean is one thing, but lean and safe is another.
=======

The M113 is a lightly armoured vehicle constructed largely out of light weight aluminum and designed for speed and not for strength. An M-16 bullet can pierce its armour from close range. It provides more protection than riding in an open jeep, but it certainly does not provide sufficient protection for troops against road side bombs.

I can also personally attest an M113 is very uncomfortable to ride in, but that's a minor consideration.

Posted by: Ed Ehrlich at June 25, 2005 07:08 PM

Contrary to some ad hominem attacks (you know who you are), Democrats, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Libertarians, and Republicans who thought George W. Bush lied in order to get us into war in Iraq support the troops with all our hearts. We want them safe, to be and feel supported, and loved. No question. However, apparently you Bush fans don't care that George W. Bush lied and hyped in order to get us into Iraq in the first place (connection with Al Qaeda?; inspectors can't do the job?; "last throes"?; huh??), when the overwhelming consensus in the IC (intelligence community) and Pentagon was that Iraq was no threat. Yeah, we're there, and the demagoguery of some aside, we're over it, but that doesn't mean some folks need to impugn the patriotism of those who are dismayed that Mr. Bush was quite happy to lie his ass off so that 1700+ of our best young people could die in the most ineptly justified and planned operation post-WWII alongside the Bay of Pigs. You folks who are Bush/Cheney fans should be livid as hell about what lies Bush and Cheney are spouting off, and spouted off to begin with. They need to level with the American public. They've not done so since they used 9/11 as an excuse to shift the focus from Al Qaeda to Iraq. Now, according to the CIA, Bush and co. have transformed Iraq into the largest haven of terrorists in the world, and the most sophisticated terrorist factory/laboratory in the world, where they will gain experience to export their hate around the world. It's a damned shame Bush fans didn't turn on their brains and hold George W. Bush accountable. One thing's for sure: he'll be accountable to God for wanting war in Iraq more than anything else.

Posted by: Truth Squad at June 25, 2005 04:21 PM

Contrary to some ad hominem attacks (you know who you are), Democrats, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Libertarians, and Republicans who thought George W. Bush lied in order to get us into war in Iraq support the troops with all our hearts. We want them safe, to be and feel supported, and loved. No question. However, apparently you Bush fans don't care that George W. Bush lied and hyped in order to get us into Iraq in the first place (connection with Al Qaeda?; inspectors can't do the job?; "last throes"?; huh??), when the overwhelming consensus in the IC (intelligence community) and Pentagon was that Iraq was no threat. Yeah, we're there, and the demagoguery of some aside, we're over it, but that doesn't mean some folks need to impugn the patriotism of those who are dismayed that Mr. Bush was quite happy to lie his ass off so that 1700+ of our best young people could die in the most ineptly justified and planned operation post-WWII alongside the Bay of Pigs. You folks who are Bush/Cheney fans should be livid as hell about what lies Bush and Cheney are spouting off, and spouted off to begin with. They need to level with the American public. They've not done so since they used 9/11 as an excuse to shift the focus from Al Qaeda to Iraq. Now, according to the CIA, Bush and co. have transformed Iraq into the largest haven of terrorists in the world, and the most sophisticated terrorist factory/laboratory in the world, where they will gain experience to export their hate around the world. It's a damned shame Bush fans didn't turn on their brains and hold George W. Bush accountable. One thing's for sure: he'll be accountable to God for wanting war in Iraq more than anything else.

Posted by: Truth Squad at June 25, 2005 04:20 PM

I just realized that everyone on this site is very homosexual.

Posted by: Jose Munguia at June 25, 2005 03:19 PM

wow.... that armored bus looks like shit. Couldnt they come up with some thing alittle better. I meen c'mon. that bus look like it came straight out of the junkyard. Ionno about every one ells but I would not ride in that piece of crap. It's soo square. LAME. Who ever made that bus is 2dementionaly squared. lolz

Posted by: Damien Darko at June 23, 2005 05:25 PM

Must be nice, I saw one of them just sitting at the Palace side of Victory, while we were still using regular charter buses for the trip from BIAP to the Green Zone.

Posted by: Jason Stearns at June 23, 2005 02:00 PM

Sociologist Bob, the following old press release may answer your question.

December 7th , 2004
Labock Rhino Runner Bus Saves 18 Lives in Baghdad
Produced by: Business Wire

Route Irish is the heavily traveled, and highly dangerous, road between the secure Green Zone in Baghdad and Baghdad International Airport. There have been so many ambushes and IED explosions on that route in the past few months that the U.S. Embassy announced on December 2, 2004 that State Department personnel will be forbidden from traveling that route, and must use helicopters instead.

Military and civilian contractor personnel will continue to use the heavily armored Rhino Runner buses manufactured by Labock Technologies, Inc. of Weston, Florida.

On November 27, 2004, a convoy of three Rhino Runner buses were midway to the airport on Route Irish when a suicide bomber driving a BMW sedan, heavily laden with explosives, veered in between the lead Rhino Runner, and the second Runner. From a distance of approximately 2 meters from the second bus, the terrorist detonated the explosives, estimated to be more than 250 pounds in weight. The huge explosion generated a crater more than 6 feet in diameter and 2 feet deep in the asphalt road, and created a dust cloud 1,000 feet long which took several minutes to dissipate.

There were 17 military and civilian contractor passengers, plus a driver, on the second Rhino Runner bus at the time of the explosion. In the face of what veteran Army officers described as a "massive explosion", we are proud to announce that there were no injuries whatsoever, due to the great strength of the Runner's design, and unique method of construction.

An Army Captain with nearly one year's service in Iraq, who has made numerous trips back and forth on this route on Rhino Runners, was on board the second bus that morning, and had this to say in an emotional letter to Labock Technologies, Inc. personnel:

"I am writing you to thank you for saving my life.

"While traveling to the airport in one of your Runner buses, a civilian vehicle suddenly veered close to my bus, which was very unusual, then cut closely in front of us. Before anyone could react, the driver detonated a huge bomb, and we were engulfed in a large sea of orange flames, and the bus severely rocked.

"I quickly checked the other passengers for injuries, and found them all to be OK, with the exception of some sore ear drums. Area soldiers quickly escorted us from the Runner, and as I left the bus, I saw a large crater, but absolutely no sign of the suicide vehicle - it had been completely obliterated. Soldiers later found the nearly 400 pound engine 100 yards from the explosion site.

"I want to relay my deepest thanks for your employees and their amazing work on the Rhino Runner buses. I am very thankful to be alive, as are the other 17 people on board. I have no doubt that had I been in any other vehicle, the result would have been catastrophically different. My wife and two young daughters are equally grateful.

"Please post this note where all of your employees can see it, and receive my most humble thanks."

Labock company president Carlos Davidov sent this brave officer an email in which he expressed Labock's employees great pride in having designed and built a versatile vehicle which continues to save American lives. But Davidov corrected the good Captain, saying that all Americans must thank him and all of the other men and women of our armed forces for their dedicated and heroic service to our country, and for their personal and physical sacrifices made on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fred Williams, head of marketing at Labock, received several phone calls a couple of days after the bombing from a civilian contract engineer who had been riding in the back of the lead bus.

"I want to thank you and your employees for building such a strong and safe bus. It saved my life, for sure. I have only been in Iraq for two weeks, and the tremendous explosion of the bomb made me think my visit was terminated. If I had been in any other vehicle, I would have been `jelly'. Thanks again for saving my life." This engineer was riding in a second generation Runner which carries 23 passengers plus driver - no one was injured.

Mr. Davidov is pleased to announce that Labock Technologies, Inc. has just received another order for eleven more Rhino Runner buses which will be in service in Iraq in a matter of weeks.

Posted by: Matias at June 22, 2005 10:03 AM

While covering for Noah here at Defense Tech I posted more on this subject at

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001625.html

Posted by: Murdoc at June 21, 2005 10:43 AM

well that bus sure looked rugged, i expect it is worth the price. as for this other rhetoric, i am ex-navy and proud to have served. Wish all the families and service members godspeed. Lets all pretend to be good christians and help each other.
We are fighting the bad fight, our position is very sensitive at best. Our president is pushing the war effort while attempting to not destroy this country. This means men on the ground take risks. I am of average intelligence so i hope you all follow. The efforts are worthy and just. If
you want to bitch then think about the millions in this country who take medication (legal and illegal) because the are not comfortable. Pretty
weak huh. Better yet how many of you abortion drum beaters would change your vote to "no"
if you were in the womb to a would be young girl
if she was about to see the murderer(doctor). ALso while i am pissed off after reading some of this weak knee shit, the next time you studs go out looking for some pussy, try not mounting up on a soldier/sailor spouce. There are plenty that would not appreciate you begging for some ass
while there riding that goddamn fucking ugly bus.
And one last thing, if you do not appreciate this country enough to respect it do not make the mistake of crawling in my path. Because if you
are used to mouthing off how this country is doing this wrong or that wrong, you need to join a church an help some young person out who is less fortunate than some others. Thats how you can make a difference instead of hating yourself and putting down your country. Last thought; more good American citizens die each day by the hands of other good citizens than in this entire war.
Sad is it not. Well go out and do your part and lay off the whining, this country was founded by the ten commandments whether you like it or not.
And the answer to the question "where did we go wrong?" Answer" exploitation of women". Sorry
to hurt your feelings but that lady you were wanting to molest at some point was some good mans daughter. Put your self in their position before you disrespect some female and know that sex out of wedlock produces a whole new set of trouble. Show some respect for them, youself, and this country!

Posted by: cliff tompkins at June 20, 2005 01:13 AM

Good stuff here. Very entertaining; not really about the Rhinos anymore, but it's still better than TV. Goatdog was the most intelligent writer (before I came along, of course).
I, too, rode from BIAP (Baghdad International Airport) to the Green Zone, and back, on occasions. Never in one of these armored vehicles, however; just an ordinary bus or HMMWV (Humvee). Things are better than they were in 2003. The DoD is apparently trying. The first six or seven months I was there, we didn't even have SAPPI plates for our vests. I am one of the guys in Newsweek looking for bodies from the UN bombing in Baghdad. We secured perimeters when the Army's 82nd Airborne or 3rd ID was busting into homes for weapons caches. We went into schools with no security other than our own to replace electrical fixtures and carpentry needs (though it was often stolen by the Iraqis days later). We built Camp Victory from the field of tall grass it used to be to housing thousands in trailer homes and dozens of battalion headquarters buildings and S.E.A. Huts. We built the largest training range in the country to accomodate any type of weapon the military offers (other than nukes). We built training buildings for the ICDC to become the ICDC (when they weren't trying to kill us at night). We traveled all over and outside the Sunni Triangle to job site to job site without any protection given to us other than our ammo (which we ran out of for about four weeks with no resupply). It's getting better! The situation we're in is going to take a lot of time in order to change the behaviors of a society. After all, that region has been fighting with each other and within each other for generations and generations and generations. Our military will probably have to have a tour over there like we had/have(?) with Germany and still have with Korea. Shit happens, do the duty, move on. Every military person knows the risks and sacrifices that may be made when signing that paper. Yet they/we sign it anyway. Why? Because we love to hear our fellow Americans bitch about how we're wasting our time and lives behaving as pawns in a chess game played by a few select/influential officials. NOT! Because we think it's important that we keep the freedoms and privileges that our previous veterans fought for or fought to keep for us. To include the whiny pot-heads who only THINK they know something when in the real world, they don't know Shi'ite. Goatdog had the experience to travel in several forms of transportation due to his ...sociopolitical job. If you don't know what I'm talking about, figure it out. Not many would ride in Blackhawks, armored SUVs, Bongo trucks, pick-ups, and a bus.
With that said, you should re-read what he wrote since his words are real and verified from experience. I'm concerned for the liberals who write about pulling soldiers out while stating they support the soldier. My mother was the same way while my brother and I were there (Me: for 14 months). It feels disheartening to us Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Seabees (My brother says Seabees don't look at themselves as being a part of the Navy since they're usually on their own or attached to some Marines), Marines, Merchant Marines, and members of the Reserve components (i.e., Reserves and Guards) to hear how people think we should not be there--because it tells us we are there for no reason; hence, we're wasting our time, energy, sacrifices, and lives. I know it's not the intent, but that's the way it comes to us. So, choose a side, Mom. And no offense meant, just education. "I may not like it, but it's the right thing to do," is all you have to say.
Speaking (writing) of education, I too, have read the Koran, Mr. Hans the Shithead. And in the Chapter entitled (translated) "The Story," everything in it refers to Moses and his people and how to live your life by repenting, believing in the one God, and working righteously rather than not believing, doing evil, or having idol gods. The chapter referring to "The Poets" speaks of the Lord as being All-mighty and All-compassionate. In "The Battlements," it talks of the creation of the heavens and the earth in six days and of the children of Adam and of the people of Moses. I could go on. That's right; it has a lot of the same ideas/concepts/stories as our Old Testament, and all in all, it preaches to be believers and in doing what is morally right. So, don't criticize something by pretending you have wisdom when it is obvious you are naive.
The only posting you had worth reading was that last one in which you also wrote about the Koran's teachings. Minus that portion, I could agree with your words--even though I still think you're an asshole--however, it was like you became a different person from your previous postings, so I'll try to accept some of your thoughts. Previously, however, you were just an immature prick. Good luck trying to get it up for Jenna, you lyin' bastard.
I'm glad Ernie (June 16th) informed everybody that this bus is for everyone, not just VIPs. Same way it used to be with the normal bus. The real VIPS usually take choppers and/or armored SUVs--at least when I was there. Was stuck in a traffic jam on BIAP near the Bob Hope dining facility and PX area when ol' W unexpectedly stopped by for Thanksgiving. No bus involved! LOL
Now then, let's get back to the real topic. Has anyone actually ridden in one of these Rhinos while getting shot at or while having a VBIED or IED go off?
By the way, I'm a social worker when I'm not a military member. I'm usually accused of being a liberal. I'm actually Bi-partisan. I just think it's always best to try to know both sides of something before judging or accusing. If you don't understand both sides, shut up with your complaining. And have a nice day.

Posted by: Sociologist Bob at June 20, 2005 01:04 AM

It loks formidable. And it looks like a target. Breaks a couple of rules. Need a bus that looks like a bus and still has good protection.

Seth

Posted by: Seth at June 19, 2005 11:50 PM

I fully agree with waht TRM said and how he thinks, but I know others do not so I guess everyone has an opinion so heres mine...We are there for a reason, we went and took Saddam down and now are working on restoring peace and civilization. Now I cannot fully understand because I was not over there but my dad was and saw it all, from dead civilians ( if any), soldiers ( God rest their souls), and freinds getting wounded and saying this respectfully, killed. I am still young (15) and being that he was over there I have a sense of what he and other fellow Army-Navy-Air Force-National Guard-Marine Corps soldiers, and any that I may have forgotten at the moment. They put their lives on the line so those that oppose the war can wake up and drink coffee and enjoy their freedom , which I may add is being held up for them by these soldiers. Everyone one of those soldiers that die over and any man or woman who goes over there has my respect and prayers.

Posted by: Proud Son at June 19, 2005 04:30 AM

I have to laugh about half no make it two thirds of the comments on here.
I spent 14 mounths in that country and not once did i ride in one of these or see one. So i have no comment on them.
I did make over a hundred trips in the back of a hummer with just my intersepter vest, weapon, kevlar, and a prayer on my lips that some fruitcake didnt decied that i was his new target.
The trip from Bagdad to the "Green Zone" is one of the most never racking trips i made while i was there. there is way to many place for IEDs, roadside bombs, and hit and run artest to hide that there is almost no way to find them all.
The smarter we get the newer the insurgents find ways to get around the ways we fight them. all we (ie military) can do is try to stay one step ahead of them.
sence it seams that everyone else has put a political view on here so will i
WE ARE THERE GET OVER IT!!!
WE SHOULD NOT LEAVE TILL THE JOB IS DONE. GET OVER IT!!!!!!
If you dont like what the president does then next you need to fine a few more friends that think like you and havae them vote with you. GET OVER IT!!!!
This country was built on the bodies of those that know what the price of freedom was, is, and will always will be.
Most Americans never knew what they had (freedoms). Now that they do most dont want to pay for it. So its up to a hand full of men and women to pay with time, sweat, tears, blood, and lives just so they can be free. ( I didnt serve this country for millions of people. I do it for the three little girls that I give kisses at night before they go to sleep.)
and lastly
if you dont like the freedoms that you have here GET THE F@CK OUT of this country and go and live some where else

Posted by: TRM at June 19, 2005 02:34 AM

In response to Steven R., Major, U.S. Army Retired.

Major (Ret) we thank you for your service in the U.S. Army. However, I do not agree with anything you have said. You have your own right to be appalled that both Rummy and Gen Dickie Myers road in this vehicle. At least they are smart enough not to ride in the ill-equipped HumVEEs and Strikers so you can’t fault them there. Obviously you don’t recognize the difference between Air Force and Army Generals. Of course if Patton (Lucifer rest his soul) were alive today he would be smacking a lot of people in the face. I bet you would even be on his list also. The U.S. does in fact have the most powerful military in the world. Like someone pointed out in a previous posting, if the troops focused only on Route Irish then the fuckfaced ragheads would just start placing IEDs elsewhere. Oh and you really need to read the news as of late. The U.S. and Iraqi troops are in the progress of a major offensive to curb the ragheads crossing the boarder there in shithole Syria. It is also obvious that Dubya went to war to take care of what daddy dearest failed to do. Any blind person can see that. But guess what he is your president and the majority of America elected him along with the Congress. They made the decision to go to war. As far as WMD, my inspectors and I did find some. They were in raw format such as pesticides. See the media wants a huge smoking gun that they exist. They expect a huge facility such as a warehouse to be opened and see SCUD missiles labeled as WMD. I still don’t think they would be satisfied. So Major what is your definition of a WMD? It is apparent to me that the insurgents are using WMD on a daily basis by bombing their fellow civie ragheads and the coalition troopers. Who gives a fuck if Iraq had no ties with Al Qaida. A raghead is a raghead is a raghead. P.S: Major learn how to spell Al Qaida. It is not that difficult. Speaking of ragheads there is no such thing as a peace loving Muslim. The Holy Koran speaks way too much of killing infidels. And yes I have read it. These people can never be trusted. I hope someone can prove me wrong on that one. What other religion states that reward for dying in battle is 70 virgins in heaven? How often do you see Christians, Jews or Catholics strap on a suicide belt, walk into a crowded restaurant and then detonate themselves? I can’t recall any incident in my 76 years on this doomed planet. President’s Johnson and Nixon were both fucked up individuals. Patton should slap them too. I still believe that a low yield nuclear bomb dropped on Hanoi would have been the best option. Sure a few of American POWs would have been killed (i.e. John McCain, big loss there). Who cares if a shirt you bought from Kohl’s Dept Store was “Made in Vietnam”. You should do more research on that too. Did you know that faggoty ass black beret the U.S. Army is sporting is made in China? Yes it is. You can think your beloved former Gen Eric Shinseki for that one. Check out this link if you don’t believe me http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3aa8db6e0f9c.htm It is a shame that a patriot such as yourself is not shopping at Wal-Mart. I hear that they only buy and sell American made items. Vietnamese soldiers being trained in the U.S. has no bearing on anything. Hell two of the U.S.’s worst enemies, Japan and Germany, are great allies in this day and age. Maybe there should be a civil war in Iraq. It would be good for those fuckers. Let them kill each other on a grander scale. The winner should get to decide what to do with Saddam and his Cronies. Lastly, fuck the oil. The oil infrastructure is in such sad shape that it will be years before they can get around to doing anything with it. If the U.S. was so concerned with Iraqi oil they would be protecting the pipelines and etc. In closing I hope you Major learn how to do proper research before just saying any old shit on here. I think you are very unpatriotic and removed from reality. Do you realize if your troops come home now that every dead and wounded U.S. serviceperson would have died in vain? Think about that and their families. Shame on you Major. Perhaps you should move to France.

P.S: My 77th B-day is coming up on the 28th of this month. Larry Flynt is throwing a birthday bash for me and Jenna Jameson already promised a nice blow job. No one on this sorry excuse for a website is invited.

Posted by: Hans Blix at June 19, 2005 12:56 AM

I am appalled Rumsfeld and especially appalled that General Myers rode in this bus. General Patton would not have ridden like a coward in such a vehicle with his troops exposed. I think General Patton would slap General Myers in the face for cowardice. We, the most powerful military force in the world, cannot secure a 5 mile (9 kilometer) stretch of road. And how can we expect Syria and Iran to close their borders when we can't even close our own borders with Canada and Mexico?
Iraq's production and possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction (nuclear, biological, chemical) was President Bush's justification for America going to war against Iraq. None have been found, none existed. It now also appears Iraq had no ties with Al Quada. As a matter of fact Al Quada is also an enemy secular Arabic governments such as Saddam's regime. It now appears President Bush massaged the intel to show Iraq possessed WMD's because he wanted to go to war against Iraq at any cost to satisfy his personal agenda.
We now know the truth. It time to pull out of Iraq.
What if President's Johnson and Nixon had pulled us out of Vietnam when they no longer believed in it. We would have saved around 40,000 American lives. Nixon tried to bring us "peace with honor". That cost us another 35,000 US service members lives. He should have pulled us out right away as the Vietnamese did not embrace the type of lifestyle we tried to impose upon them. And what condition is Vietnam in today after we lost the war there? I recently bought a shirt in Kohl’s' Dept Store that was "Made in Vietnam" and starting next year Vietnamese soldiers will begin training in the United States with American soldiers.
If we pull out of Iraq now There will be a civil war. The Shiite majority has been dominated by the Sunni minority for a bit over 1,000 years now. The Sunnis also collaborated with Saddam. Perhaps with Saddam out of the way we need to pull out, stand back, and let the Shiites rise up and assert their freedom over the Sunnis in a civil war it that is what it takes for the Shiites to gain their freedom and establish a type of government they want...not one we impose on them. They need to settle it amongst themselves. But we won't let them because Iraq has the 2nd or 3rd largest reserves of oil in the world and we want that.
Support our troops by binging them home now.
Steven R., Major, U.S. Army Retired

Posted by: Steven R. at June 18, 2005 10:50 AM

Hans back in the house.

To all of the losers on this posting I have returned to grace you with my presence. I see that Brett and Irv and quite the pair. Do you two fudgepack every night in the the Rhino? I bet you do. It is homosexuals like you that are ruining the world. Please send me your post address so I can send you my Koran that I wiped my ass with. I am out of here so I can go buy my weed and smoke it in the Army recruiters office. Take care faggots and do get some cream to take care all of those nasty anal warts.

Your daddy,
Hans "WMD" Blix

Posted by: Hans Blix at June 18, 2005 05:25 AM

Will the liberals ever get smarter? What the hell does an armored bus have to do with the political reasons we are involved in Iraq?

That bus took a VBIED (car bomb) last November. Everyone was fine. Onboard were soldiers and civilians alike. Only the most senior of diplomats (my boss for instance)get helo rides on a regular basis to BIAP.It is a bus with armor, used for running Route Irish from the IZ to BIAP. Comparing it to an APC is ignorant. It is not a fighting vehicle, but serves its purpose well. It is escorted, there is an evacuation plan, and the troops who provide its security are on top of it.

I've run Irish in everything from a Bongo truck, to a soft skin pick-up, to an armored Suburban, to Little Bird and Blackhawk helicopters. They all have limitations. We do the best we can. As for the "electronic surveillance" suggestion, you don't have a clue as to what is in place here. All the video cameras in the world won't detect/stop a car bomb that merges onto Irish and rams into your motorcade, it will just provide good video for the internet.

The bus is a good thing considering all the alternatives. I hate the liberal comments from losers that feel this country shouldn't protect itself. How many people can still claim to be opposed to this war after seeing a hundred dead civilian bodies, murdered for no better reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Wake up losers!

Posted by: Goatdog at June 18, 2005 02:41 AM

I'll probably be in Iraq soon, the Rhinos serves a purpose, its not the only vehicle that has served its purpose the Striker is another vehicle. APCs & Humve should be relevated to Pearl Harbor. Are troops need Armor a new vehicle that has the speed & armor of a M1A2 Abrahams, quit stopping all the side talk. We should be using oil/fuel from IRAQ to supply such vehicles, heck build a M1A3 heavy personel carrier with weapons for defense like the bus. Metal Detecting front end heavily armored vehicles with long range would solve this issue, radar... use it

Posted by: Steve at June 18, 2005 01:53 AM

THIS MISSILE MAGNET IS DOING JUST WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT; THAT IS FOR OUR PEOPLE TO HIDE INSTEAD OF HUNTING THEM DOWN;AND ELIMINATING THEM. WE SEEMED TO HAVE LEARNED NOTHING FROM KOREA AND VIETNAM,A LOT OF THOSE "FRIENDLY CIVILIANS" THAT WE'RE NOT SUPPOSE TO INJURE ARE WAVING WITH ONE HAND TOSSING BOMBS WITH THE OTHER. "THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS RULES IN WAR"

Posted by: shorty at June 17, 2005 09:20 PM

IF A ROAD SIDE BOMB CAN WIPE OUT A BRADLEY OR AN
STRYKER VEHICAL THINK OF WHAT IT CAN DO TO ONE OF THESE TIN CANS ON WHEELS..

Posted by: JIM at June 17, 2005 05:45 PM

Anything that helps protect or soldiers (o matter where) is a good thing. As for the folks that are using this bulletin board to voice their political opposition to the war, they should be glad that they have that option. As a retired military member, I believe we should be there, and need to stay the course. The same types of attacks occurred in Germany for over two years after the formal end of WWII. The difference today, is that we see and hear every night (and morning) these incidents on TV and radio. In WW II the public was distanced from the violence. Vietnam brought it into our living rooms, and the American public could not stomach it. The results were a lack of commitment to the process, an untimely retreat, and the abandonment of an ally. We need to stay the course and provide a safe country for the Iraq people to inherit. We need to have enough troops and firepower to make the insurgents forget about even thinking about raising a weapon. Unfortunately, the most radical will only stop when we remove their weapons from their cold dead hand (or what’s left of their hands). If a $275,000 bus helps toward that goal, it’s a good thing. I support the path our commander-in-chief has taken, and believe we should remain until we obtain the final objective, a FREE AND SECURE IRAQ! A free and democratic county in the Mid-East just might help stabilize the entire region.

Posted by: E Borowicz at June 17, 2005 11:46 AM

First, ArmyMom I hope your son comes back from Iraq untouched, which is my wish for all my fellow servicemembers in Iraq. But you need to think about what you are saying. I currently am in a commissioning program along with about 40 other Marines, 80 Soldiers, 50 Airmen, and 50 Sailors, and all of us know that we will be in Iraq after we graduate, EVERYONE. From the incoming freshmen that graduates 4 years from now to the 5th year senior that will graduate in August. You need to realize that Iraq is not just the the 43rd President's problem, the Middle East has been and will be a concern in the future, you need to think about that when in a knee jerk reaction to your son being deployed, you elect some liberal "I will not send American Boys to do the job Iraqi boys should be doing for themselves" President that will end up instituting a draft because they will not understand a damn thing that is going on. If you will recall from Vietnam, WWII, and others a President hell bent on peace is much more dangerous than a President that understands when you need to go to war. As for the comment made by Max about how it hurts more when he hears about a Marine, you'll never understand the brotherhood if you're not a part of it, the Marine Corps is a small tight group. Here is a quick fact for all you that would like to complain that America should go back to isolationism as was advocated by George Washington, remember that Thomas Jefferson sent Marines and Sailors to Tripoli in order to end terrorism that the Europeans were more than happy to deal with by giving the terrorists money to bother someone else, it was from this extremely important and eerily similar war that we set the precedent of not standing idly by while terrorists threaten us. It was from this war that we got the Marine Corps Officer's Sword and the words "to the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Corps Hymn. If you would like to read more about it go here http://www.techcentralstation.com/050605B.html
So for everyone that is against the war, such is your right and if that is your conviction fight for your conviction with everything you have, just as I and all my fellow servicemembers will fight with everything we have to keep this country safe, because without safety you will never truly be free. I see Iraq and Afghanistan as just the most current in a long line of American efforts to secure peace and security for ourselves, our allies, and even our future enemies. All I ask is that before you say that you proudly proclaim that you shouldn't be blamed because you voted Kerry and before that you voted Gore, THINK! Actually think about why you are against the war and why you are against Bush, then make a well thought out and defensable argument about your beliefs. I am not some right wing warmonger that thinks that all liberals should be strapped to munitions and sent to join their "friends" I have many friends who are liberal and against the war, I am not trying to change anyone's opinion with this message, only trying to educate, because the saddest thing in America is that we do not remember the history of how we got where we are today. Remember this, either you are the most powerful nation in the world or you are not, and I would much rather have the great responsibility that comes with great power, than be powerless. If you really want to complain, I will give you something to complain about, look at how much money the Army wastes on recruiting compared to the amount the Marine Corps gets for their entire budget, then you will have an idea of how things really work in the DoD. Godspeed to all those in harm's way!
SEMPER FI!
MIDN 1/C Davis
NROTC TAMU

Posted by: TAMUDevilDog at June 17, 2005 11:20 AM

Where is this jerkoff who calls himself Hans Blix heading when he says "I'm out of here"? A better country? The recruiting office? To get some more dope? What a total screwbhall. Do everyone a favor;
Go back into your cave and seal the entrance. Better yet, let me know where it's at and I'll seal it for you.

Posted by: Irv at June 17, 2005 10:07 AM

IN regards to Hans Blix message;
love it or leave it!
If YOUR in my beloved country be it it has all the problems it does have at least its free! can you say the same freedom in your home of Germany, can you say the same for employment options? how about government? Evils is in the whole world. ITS not about just the "Marines" he was reffering to, he was referring to the US armed forces And which he was a part of the Marines! Glad your not in my Military fighting wars... but be glad someone like him is! Care for your fellow man! Think about the vietnamese the koreans the germans the jews the russians the whole nine yards that fight in "yours and mine" armed forces to protect your sorry ass speaches...
Oh and to keep to the topic at hand, go Rhino's! keep our troops safe, dont forget the block of ice for the tranny men! Do what ya gotta do to keep America safe!

Posted by: Brett at June 17, 2005 09:43 AM

I SAY THANKS TO THE PEOPLE WHO THOUGHT TO BUILD THIS WONDERFUL PIECE OF EQUIPMENT,ANYTHING TO KEEP OUR SOLDIERS SAFE,KEEP ON BUIDING.FIRST OF ALL MY HUSBAND IS ONE THEM SOLDIERS.THANKS FROM TEXAS

Posted by: PAMELA BRUCE at June 17, 2005 06:15 AM

What if this bus was shoot at the tires ?? or passed by a mine wouldnt it fall on its back .. then the passengers would stay there in it or else they will be killed ....

Posted by: cirus at June 17, 2005 04:21 AM

This message is in response to Max Tollens:

Max we appreciate your service to the USMC. I do frown on your comment that you care more about Marines than the rest of our troops. What about your fellow Americans that die each day in the United States? Don't you care about them? Perhaps you should think about shutting the hell up and coming out of retirement to do your part. As for me I would rather have a sister in a whore house than a brother in the Marine Corps. So go fuck yourself Max and stick all that equipment up your ass. If it were up to me I would pull all of our troops out right now. Then I would send our entire fleet of B-52's armed to the teeth with every nuclear bomb in our arsenal. Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Egypt, Afghanistan and all of the other insignificant ragheaded country I failed to mention would be turned into a huge pane of glass. North Korea, China and even Vietnam (get some payback) would be next on our list. God bless this shithole we call America. I'm out of here.

Posted by: Hans Blix at June 17, 2005 01:09 AM

it is just like the "pull the troops out now" crowd would use a RHINO forum to bitch about the war than discuss the merits of the bus. i ran Route Irish in a civilian fuel tanker unarmored anything is better than nothing. finish what ya started (remember Vietnam)kick ass take names let God sort em out

Posted by: porkchop at June 16, 2005 10:20 PM

The RHINO, List price:$275.00.00, I.E.D. tested, seats 26 grown adults( soldiers and bleeding hearts alike), withstands the force of rpg's and features bullit proof glass, is equipped with multiple gun ports, and 5/8ths in. thick armoured plating, sports saftey features surpassing even VOLVO's highest saftey ratings (test proven by extremist in the real live combat zones of IRAQ)(test records reveal no loss of life while seated within the comfort zone TM of the RHINO TM), comes in your choice of colors: desert tan or sierra brown, sorry, A/C not an option. Available NOW at combat surviability dealership, just outside the greenzone nearest you.
$275,00.oo U.S. dollars, expensive.....
275,000 U.S. Soldiers kept alive and .oo dead, priceless!

Posted by: PFC NULTY at June 16, 2005 08:10 PM

As a veteran of the USMC I hurt everytime I hear about a death or injury to one of our troops, especially fellow Marines. As previous posters have noted, we're in Iraq; shut the hell up about getting out and support the troops and the mission so we can get them home quickly and safely. Let's get them the equipment that will allow them to do their jobs safely and allow them to return home in one piece. Armored buses, HMMWVs, APCs; whatever it takes to get our folks safely around Iraq/Afghanistan.

Posted by: Max Tollens at June 16, 2005 04:19 PM

Okay, let me clear some things up for everyone who hasn't been deployed to Baghdad and had the opportunity to ride a Rhino. IT IS RIDDEN BY EVERYONE, EVERY DAY! Service members and civilians alike ride the Rhino on a daily basis. Service members of all branches and all ranks, contractors, and/or DoD civilians are all on the bus together on any given trip. In short, anyone who needs to use the Rhino can use it to travel. It is safe, IED-tested, and no one has died while riding in one, to my knowledge. Considering the number of US citizens (service member and civilian) who have ridden in one, I say that's a great safety record. Better than the HUMVEE's and 113's running around here. I can't go into specifics about route security during the trip, but let's just say I felt really secure along the entire route every time I have travelled in one.

So don't worry, it's not some exclusive benefit for a select few. It's here for EVERYONE who has a need for it, along that specific route. Given the unique nature of deployment to Baghdad, it is a necessary and welcome addition to our transportation fleet.

Posted by: Ernie at June 16, 2005 01:55 PM

"Rhinos" are the continuing steps the terrosists
force America and all free people into--to protect ourselfs...to the time they force us to hide in our caves.
FrancescoCC

Posted by: Frank S. Calco at June 16, 2005 01:54 PM

The rino is a marvelous acheivement for what it is. I low-Tech, improvised solution to a DEADLY, and very real problem. I'm not a soldier, so I dont profess to know everything about combat and the general hell that is war. But I do understand this. Our soldiers NEED this kind of equipment. Low-tech, EFFECTIVE, solutions. To DEADLY problems. That has meant the difference in conflicts throughout history. He who improvises and adapts quickly, and more consistently, has the best chance at victory. Our men & women over there are doing the best they can, in a very hostile environment. As for those of you who think that we should not be over there. Well... people are entitled to their opinion. However, when people jump to immediate conclusions and make hasty judgements based on raw emotions, and imcomplete/biased facts... that scares me. God bless those who choose to fight and die for our freedom. And yes, the very freedom that allows people to disrespect those who fight and die for them.
Those who say we should "live and let live" and allow countries like N. Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan do whatever they want... remember the last time America and her leaders chose that philosophy. 1935-1941. To be exact, December 7th, 1941. It is EXACTLY that attitude that allowed Japan and Germany to build their forces and launch what would later be known as World War II. And had we not been 9/11nd back in December of 1942... well we all know, or should know, the rest of that story. God bless America. And God bless the Rhino. It represents all that is good about America. Though it be flawed, it rolls up its sleeves, gets the job done, and at the end of the day, protects what is just and right.

Posted by: shaking head at June 16, 2005 01:34 PM

The enemy in Iraq,Afghanistan is the same one that murderesd the children in Beslan or fuels the Jihad in Sudan the Janjaweed et al.The same ones that blows a bus in Tel Aviv or hitthe Twin Towers. They are selling their particular form of Fascism and way of waging the struggle or Jihad. They are different; more murderous and fanatical and wide ranging than national socialist Baath or "old"Islamic Revolutionary Ayatollah Khomeini style.They preach the joining of the secular Islamic fascism-the Baath- as in Syria and Iraq with the more religious oriented brand Ayatollah Khomeini style. Learn the name of the ideology: Islamism,Islamic Fascism,Islamo Fascism, they are islamists-as communISTS and other totalitarian "ISTS". They wage Jihad(struggle)for now in 4th gen asymetrical warfare, as revolutionary radical socialism waged it prior to achieve power in Russia and later on in the so called "wars of national liberation" during the Cold War. if we love and cherish our freedoms so much....why is so wrong to help others achieve that by facing this new totalitarian ideology?

Posted by: Tony at June 16, 2005 12:49 PM

I agree, stop complaining America, our sons and daughters are putting their lives on the line for a cause many of us don't believe in, I am one, but I am behind these sons and daughters, fathers, mothers, etc. They joined to protect and to do whatever they are told. I don't agree with our commander and chief, but my son is there and I am proud and will support all over there! It is a faceless war as stated and yes we will be there for a long time and yes, most of us don't believe in it, but believe in the troops that are there, have been and are going! We can't help it if they hate Americans, but be an american, put your flag up, put those magnets on your cars and be proud that you are an american and that their are troops putting their lives on the line for you! Stop bitching and start supporting our troops! Don't dismiss this as some did in vietnam, these kids, parents, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, etc. don't have a choice, they go and do what they are told, and where is the medida? I am sorry but regular main stream media is bull-shit, watch PBS, BBC, independent news, at least they produce something about what is going on. We want the truth, we need the truth, and to you Commander and Chief, get off your Ass and get us out of their, we got Sadam, they don't want us there, I understand it is a catch 22, because if we pull out their will be more mass murder like before as in the gulf war, but something has got to be done. At least give them the equipment they need, for protection, And I am not talking about diplopmats, etc, I mean our troops, son, daughters, fathers, mothers, etc!
This is from a mother whose son is going to Iraq in the next month. Thank you for allowing us to vent and express our feelings, hopefully Mr. Bush and your cronies will read some of this and understand that we parents are a strong bunch and will support our troops as long as it takes.

Posted by: Army Mom at June 16, 2005 12:12 PM

I am also concerned that this is being used for diplomats,etc. what about our troops? The troops are the ones on the line, they need the best up-to-date equipment.

Posted by: Army Mom at June 16, 2005 11:57 AM

these busses sound like a good idea. U.S. contractors need a safe ride to get around in, why not let them have the busses. about the APC's, you people are STUPID! i can out class the APC in everything except weight with my STRYKER. im here serving in Mosul right now and the ieds we get around this part of the country are no joke. and yet the stryker is the king of the roads. these ieds placers are becoming more and more better at hiding these bombs along the road. as an engineer, my main mission is to go out and find these ieds along the streets of mosul. i know how hard it is to find them, but they are there. you people need to realize, you cant find them all. this is war and shit does happen. as far as that stretch of road in baghdad, "The Road of Death", our guys down there probably cant fully secure it because the are out LOOKING FOR THE ENEYMY. if all our guys did was sit out there and secure that 9km of road, the enemy would just simply pack up their stuff and place ieds somewhere else. theres no one true answer to the call of ieds. you have to adapt to the changing environment, just like the enemy does. our guys all in iraq are doing their hardest to protect you bitching selfish people back home. im glad im risking my life to protect your sorry asses. im glad so many people gave their lives to give you that freedom. say we didnt kick sadaams ass when we did and say he eventually attacked us, it would be these anti bush retards calling for his head because he let another sept. 11 happen. if would be those same people that are now bitching about us being over here, who would be bitching about us NOT doing something sooner. you people are stupid. i support all that we are doing and support the guys much higher up than me that know better than me the needs of this country. people that YOU helped to elect. AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!

Posted by: BRAD at June 16, 2005 11:51 AM

Things have improved so much since I left in early 2004. When I deployed I was given a flac vest, drove in a soft top HUMMWV, 2 vehicle convoy with 4 personnel, no Comms, very little support from our supported division.
Everyone is doing the best they can, if there was a better plan, or equipment our troop would have it. We are fighting a faceless war, no true enemy, just a fanatic in a crowd. I didn’t want to be there, and I let my command know (I stayed and served my full term, no PCS, and no school breaks) , however I was a soldier, and it was war, I was prepared to die for my country and its belief, and during a mission, or an order, I gave my all. And please understand, I mean no disrespect to any of you, we joined a military service, given most of the facts (a few left out by some recruiters), we know what we signed up for.

So with that said,
If you are not a member of the service, if you are not deployed or a family member of one of our great men and women that are serving us with such great pride, that are honored by the title Veteran, stop complaining. Many of our service members read this site, read what people are saying about them and this war (when you criticize the war, you criticize the war fighter) and you as a whole are directly responsible for the morale of our troops.

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion, instead of complaining to our troops, write your congress person, or someone that can do something. Don’t write our troops to complain.

A round of applause for the DOD, for their efforts to try and fix a problem. What have you done for our Troops? Go Rhino

Posted by: "Is This on" at June 16, 2005 11:35 AM

IN defense for our former TOP,
(Posted by: Retired 101st 1SG at June 16, 2005 01:53 AM)
This is a man with a plan! I am in agreement for fighting "for" a country and helping them repair a damaged society that couldnt help thereselves!
How was our country founded?...I think everyone has forgotten What the U S of A means and stands for. We are a super power for a reason! ask any foreigner in our country today who works here, attends college here, why are they here. they will answer that they dont have these ops in their countries to do wat they are doing here now! I work for a leading University In Texas. All My students, former and present, would not change their lives, only their will to change their country for good. Most of the students here have told me they wish go back to their country to help make it more modern. Stop bitchin' about casualties, go make a difference in this world and do your duty to help your fellow "man". I served my time and would gladly do it again and again. If you have a better idea on how to make things Overseas better make it happen dont complain about it in a chatroom. For you liberal Nuts... thank your lucky stars you have the option to be free and to make your bitchin' seen and heard! That isnt the case for the people we are fighting for.
The safer way, however it is accomplished to make their country free, is fine by me...a little sweat never hurt any one.. get out and push! if you have to push your "ride" half the way feel fortunate that you had a safe ride that distance. We are at war, what do you think is going to happen when war is dealt with? People die, unfortunate. Go Rhino's! ps ...dont forget ya block of ice for the tranny!

Posted by: Brett at June 16, 2005 09:38 AM

If it works use it until we can get something better. Who cares where it was made.

Posted by: Theo Johnson at June 16, 2005 08:54 AM

I think that the bus is a show of an attempt to give a solution to a greater problem, IED's. The fact is only armor can help minimize the effects of a strategically placed IED. This type of guerilla warfare has always worked in the users favor throughout history. The thing that will save lives in the end is deminishing the enemy's "will to fight" It took not one but two nuclear bombs to do that to a defiant Japan. What will it take in Iraq? I do know this Iraqis are tired of having foriegners come in their country with explosive belts to kill what is now mostly civilians. This could be the solution. Increase the will to fight by non-insurgents, and what better way to get them to the battlefield, than in a Rhino :). P.S. anyone that has ever used an APC knows you drive it half as far as you push it, since it was designed by the lowest bidder.

Posted by: Martin at June 16, 2005 08:25 AM

Why are APC's not as strong? These busses are designed for three thigns:
1) Protection from IED's
2) Protection from small arms fire
3) Protection from RPG's.

An APC is designed to be agile, and protected from other various threats. Why not make our APC's like a race car? Really fast? Because a Race car is built for one thing, just like these busses. APC's are built for many roles, and as a result are not the best at any one, but good across the board. I'll bet one of these busses might have a bad day against a T-90 tank. The good news is that with newer light materials and such, our "APCs" are getting stronger. Besides, anyone who has ridden in a M113( and its variants), M2 Bradley would probably rather ride in these busses. These busses are also more efficient - more people per bus, less vehicles per convoy, more fuel efficient and faster.

Posted by: J Dale at June 16, 2005 07:35 AM

This article is irresponsible journalism! Anything else you can tell the insurgents? This is downright unamerican. Wake up!

Posted by: bill at June 16, 2005 05:29 AM

the only problem with the rhino is you cant get the windows down for drive through takeaway.

Posted by: riker at June 16, 2005 04:26 AM

I love all these posts, especially the liberal morons that think if we ignore our enemies they won't attack us.

Or my personal favorite; which is the totally idiotic view, is that if we allow terrorist safe havens to stay in business and train, those same terrorist will employ their tactics in any other country but America.

Better yet if we change all of America's political goals, aims, and policies to better suit them (our enemy and the ideologs they represent) instead of the 300 hundred million Americans that they government is trying to protect and represent is actually a good idea...

War is unfortunately a necessary evil, because frankly, the world is evil. These people (fanatics) won't stop until they die in battle, kill our kids, or die of old age...

The BUS however, is a temporary solution to a nagging problem. My personal favorite solution is to equip units with M113's, an aging, but cheap solution to urban and insurgent operations. Lean is one thing, but lean and safe is another.

Let’s quit endangering our troops for a light Army that lacks well deserved protection. The Army's former Chief wanted a leaner force to be able to respond quickly... But I ask you, how quick do we need to get an entire Division or Brigade in place? It (speed) should not determine how many limbs are lost, simply because we got there quicker using 10 less trips with a C130 which saved us 24 hours...

I hardly think the KOREAN, or Chinese issues will waiver on 24 hours or 72, or even a month. If you’re moving 150,000+ troops, they are going to stage somewhere... so stage them with some ARMOR will ya!!!!

Posted by: Retired 101st 1SG at June 16, 2005 01:53 AM

A humvee was created to be simply transportation not an armoured vehicle, if you want armour get armour. trying to make a cow a race horse just won't do it. I admit it's better than nothing, but designing a proper armoured transport would go a long way in the safety of our troops. I would vote for the money. how about you? Good luck guys hope to see you all soon Semper Fi.

Posted by: rick at June 15, 2005 11:53 PM

This reminds me of the armoured bus in 'Dawn of the Dead'.

Posted by: ZOMBIE at June 15, 2005 11:33 PM

I feel the bus is a good idea, however I'm disappointed in it's limited useage and deployment to only high-priority personnel (diplomats/contractors). As a soldier re-deploying to Baghdad in November, I'd like to know that the military is putting their money to better use protecting me and my fellow soldiers than worrying about a few high-dollar employees whom I feel shouldn't be "touring" Iraq in the first place. I wish they would spend their time & money building up-armoured humvees for the troops instead of tour buses. Or simply making sure that the troops who ARE currently deployed have adequate equipment/supplies that they SHOULD have as soldiers in our great US Army.

SPC Black, 18th ABN Corps Artillery, Ft. Bragg, NC

Posted by: SPC Black at June 15, 2005 10:56 PM

No matter how you look at it WE ARE THERE! And we will be there for a long time to come. The U.S. Forces are doing a great job over there even though very few media personal report it. They seem to like to report on the few negative things that happen over there. The busses are great if they save the lives of our Troops, no matter where they are built. AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Posted by: Ken Holman at June 15, 2005 10:48 PM

We are there whether any of us like it or not. The bus....a good idea...simply because it protects people. Who cares whether or not we should be there....we are. Nobody here can change that.

Posted by: Jim at June 15, 2005 10:13 PM

I've ridden in this bus a bunch of times. Given its size it is surprising how few people it seats. The bus is actually spacious and comfortable, but at least the ones I was on were extremely hot. People put big blocks of ice next to the drivers' seat for cooling but it didn't help that much. Main thing is that it was a marked improvement over the old unarmored buses and is often the safest way to accomplish the trip, so that's all you really need to know.

I wrote, but deleted, a whole bunch of stuff about the administration and its choices. Didn't make sense in the context of an article about armored buses. I will say that it is embarassing that the United States cannot secure a what-- 9 km? -- stretch of highway between two of our most significant strategic locations. How we can maintain that we have enough troops and at the same time determine that we cannot spare the resources to make Route Irish secure is beyond me.

Posted by: Art at June 15, 2005 09:33 PM

First of any form of transportation that protects the occupants and adds to the availabiity of safe transportation is a good thing. Second the armored HUMMWV's are being shipped as fast as they can be assembeled. What is required here is the old vehicle to be shipped to the plant for the retro fit of the armor, fitted and then shipped overseas. Currently the plants doing this work are conducting 24/7 operations to accomplish this as fast as possible. Third wethere or not we should have gone to Iraq, or should still be there are irrelivant since we are there now. That being said protecting the troops with any bus, truck, APC, helicopter, or tactic is a top priority. And what makes people think that electronic surveliance is not being used on the routes? We have the technology and large amounts of money are being spent to do everything possible including purchasing new buses.

Posted by: wayne at June 15, 2005 02:08 PM

Should we have gone into Iraq? NO. Should we be there now? YES. We are responsible for fixing what we help to destroy. And the Iraqis are, for the most part, glad to have us there. Most of the insurgents are not even Iraqi. As for a bus made in Israel... was that a smart decision considering Israel's popularity in Islamic nations? The bus is a good thing but they should get more armored Hummers out there to protect our troops. There is a really easy way to fix the road problem. They purchase these tiny solar operated cameras that transmit the signal wirelessly to a receiver. If they line the road with them they will know where the bombs are and can destroy them before they kill any more people. I can purchase 10 of those cameras with a receiver for about $150 and they transmit right into my computer. So why doesn't the military use electronic surveilance to watch for insurgents on the road?

Posted by: Nosfaratu at June 15, 2005 01:44 PM

I'm proud of America, but not this Israeli bus.

Posted by: Havel at June 15, 2005 01:27 PM

It probably wasnt necessarily under Saddam's Regime because he just killed anyone who opposed him...and their families...and pretty much anyone who looked at him wrong. I'm not saying whether or not we should be there, but the American troops have their hands tied. They have to not tick off all the people who get offended at pretty much everything. They have to kill the one or more idiots out of a crowd of thousands who is getting ready to fire an RPG at them without putting a scratch on the innocents (or else). They have to put up with idiotic armchair politicians who think they are more knowledgeable than everyone else. We are the only country in the world who is expected to rebuild a country after a war with its own money. Why can't they rebuild their own country with their oil money and pay us for helping them keep the peace? I have no patience for a bunch of morons who bitch about stuff when they have no clue what they are talking about. I will not respond to any moronic chatter that follows my post nor will even read them. Your opinions are worthless.

Posted by: doesitmatter at June 15, 2005 12:58 PM

Damn, I am definately getting rid of my Hummer and getting one of these. Will be great for the commute to and from Greenwich.

Posted by: Max at June 15, 2005 12:40 PM

I wonder if these busses were nescessary under the Sadam-regime.
Good job America!

Posted by: Georg at June 15, 2005 10:35 AM

I was in Iraq when this bus got attacked, I went inside of it and nothing penetrated the glass the vehicle that was in front of it was not so lucky

Posted by: Josh at June 15, 2005 10:19 AM

Yup, it's good to see that things are going well in Iraq, just like the Bush administration keeps telling us. I feel MUCH better about this stupid war, knowing that we need fully armored buses to ferry people around Baghdad.

What happened to that "They'll throw rose petals in our path" prediction?

Posted by: Cranky Media Guy at June 15, 2005 04:23 AM

This "moving diplomats, contractors and others" part of this article bothers me. What about our troops? They're the ones that need protection.

Posted by: Army Mom at June 15, 2005 03:01 AM

I took a ride in one of these about a month ago. I felt relatively safe. If it is your time to go it doesn't matter if you are in a Rhino or walking down the side of the Route Irish, you are gonna die.

Posted by: sand doc at June 15, 2005 12:59 AM

"War Bus" is another good B movie. It's gotta be the 26 person capacity, I would think.

Posted by: Mocisem at June 14, 2005 11:31 PM

Looks more like the RV from Stripes.

Posted by: Thresher at June 14, 2005 08:43 PM

Nothing special here.. BA (Mr. T) used to weld up the same thing each episode of A-TEAM .

Posted by: John at June 14, 2005 07:42 PM

We used to call these things the RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) Magnets. Luckily the last 2 times i travelled to and from Baghdad I used blackhawks to get the the Green Zone.

These Rhinos are slow, and have lots of problems. The A/C was out in them, which not only was uncomfortable for passengers wearing 26 lbs of "battle rattle" in 130 degree tems , but a block of ice was needed to keep the transmission cool.

Posted by: Inshallah at June 14, 2005 05:36 PM

Yes, but does it come with a wok and a mini bar? You never know when you'll need some chinese and chablis under fire.

Posted by: Federal Duck at June 14, 2005 04:22 PM

Does it smell like Body Odor and Curry, like all the other busses in country.

Posted by: Spiderman at June 14, 2005 04:12 PM

This bus could never be able to handle the same sort of punishment as proper APCs, for instance both in all-terrain capability as well as in the ability to withstand mines and IEDs.

For example, despite the article gushing that "the only remaining safe ride is on the Rhino", Blackwater contractors travel that road daily in South African-made Mamba APCs, and have yet to suffer a fatality for that route.

It's also worth taking a look at the RG-31s in use in some US Army engineer units.

That said, these are awesome buses, and they'll undoubtedly see more widespread use.

Posted by: Impi at June 14, 2005 03:48 PM

So why is this bus better than an Armored Personal Carrier, and yes it does remind me of the movie "The Guantlet"

Posted by: Hurricane at June 14, 2005 02:52 PM

Hey, if it works then use it. too bad all our personel carriers are not built along the same lines.

Posted by: Erik at June 14, 2005 01:49 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of "Mad Max 2"

Posted by: Kyle at June 14, 2005 11:08 AM

Inspired no doubt by the Clint Eastwood movie "The Gauntlet" - which seems a pretty apt comparison.

Posted by: J. at June 14, 2005 09:08 AM