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Aaron, no I did not read the article about Bush and him causing the world to be a bad place. Look, you folks can read all the liberal articles you want about increasing terrorism in the world and demonizing President Bush. Yes he is the President of the U.S. but do you honestly think he runs the country? He might wish he does but I can tell you he don't. A bunch of old men in Congress and Senate do. Bush can offer ideas and sign bills into effect but it's the old men on the hill who write them and vote on them. Like I said before I have been all over the middle east with an Army civil affairs team and most muslims seem to love us, a little untrusting at first, but after they seen that we were there to help them tyey warmed up to us. I have met tribal kings, elders, and met the President of the Somali nation and all were very friendly and had favorable impressions of the U.S. The Marines I talked to coming out of Iraq and into the Horn of Africa are saying the same things. We are killing these insurgents "whole sale", we are fixing and starting up schools, fixing and building hospitals and clinics, donating clothes, toys, educational equipment, and baby items from home. However this kind of news is of no interest to the media because it would look like we were doing a decent job over there and that we were making a difference. Do we belong over there? I would say yes but only as long as needed. Train the Iraqis to take care of themselves then move on. There is no we win or we lose...it's more of completing what you set out to do, we did or we did not. What was the mission? Well, clearly Sadam Husien was in gross violation of the regulations that were set forth after the war in 1991, second; he was a brutal dictator who was killing his own countryman, tried to do away with the Kurds by use of a type of musturd gas. Killing and torture of men and women. I mean, did we not go to war against Hitler and Germany for the same reasons? Hussein murdered Kurds, Hitler murdered Jews. Hussein attacking neighbors (Kuwiet), Hitler attacking neighbors (Poland, France, Belguim, Russia...) God, I could go on and on. I think we should do what we set out to do, get out of Iraq and move on. I would say though that we really do need to get the U.N a set of teeth, America cannot and should not solve the whole world's problems. We should not be the only country along with England to police up the world. Terrorism is not going to go away over night especially when the rest of the world is scared with no sack. I could'nt believe how Spain backed out against the war on terrorism. They get hit once and quit, their cowardice and lack of resolve will be their downfall. Don't mean to offend anyone and I respect all opinions since we are entitled to them. Thanks.

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Nope, not Jewish, raised as a Jehovah's Witness. Scottish-American with alot of French-German )thrown in by Ma's side of things) ancestry. And a litle history for you. We waged war with Iraqi back when they invaded Kuwait (that was in my days with MI). After that, Suddam had his military fire on our planes (that's attacking Americans, to you boys who don't think soldiers count as citizens) that were flying overflights to keep him from doing chemical weapon attacks on the Kurds. Did Suddam have chemical weapons? There's a Red Cross film of the Kurdish casualities of such attacks. Ask them.
And Iran "the most democratic nation in the region"? Please. That statement is so patently wrong, it needs no rebuttal. Sorry, son, that snake oil don't sell here.
As to the Israelies and there dealings, didn't you notice that terrorists attacks against targets in Israel went down after they built that wall to make insertions into their territory more difficult and that the Palesitinians of Hamas finally came to the table only after Israel started targeting the leaders of Hamas (as the only "assets" they really valued were their own hides)? Funny, the rest of the world did.
And finally: the majority of the people being murdered in Iraqi today, are Iraqies. People in the markets getting the day's food, people looking for work in the police departments and security forces because they believe it's right and honorable service, I say again, are being murdered by those you appear to revere. And any who help, support, give aid or comfort, in whatever way to those murderers or who, in any way, approve or excuse what they are doing or for some sick and cowardly reason try to equate those murderers with our troops are just as guilty of their crimes. Those that support these murderers are enablers. In law, it is called "Accessory Before the Fact" and "Accessory After the Fact" to murder. And that, dear readers is truly the bottom line here.

Posted by: Dayon at August 12, 2005 11:43 AM

Its amazing the justifications the right wingnuts are throwing out. Kerby Did you read the article: Bush great iraqi adventure is breading a new generation of terrorists all around the world at a quickening pace. The result is increases in terrorist worldwide. We've shattered our reputation and with it our ability to build the kinds of international coaltions that served us so well so many times in the past. And we've massively weakened the army and marines. And gotten so many killed. And the only numbers that are going up are the number of terrorists and the number of attacks.

Posted by: Aaron at August 12, 2005 03:58 AM

"You see, the problem is that there are people who, with no real provocation, just lame justifications, attack and murder those who have done them no harm." - are you referring to the US to to the suicide bombers here?

I wasnt resorting to name calling, but instead to giving a bit of background. The history of the situation is quite clear; up until the 50s, the US was a hero in the region, but since then it has become universally reviled. This is partially as a result of the actions the US has taken in the region. Therefore, if there is enumnity, take some responsibility for it.

Dayon, enimnity towards what is arguably the most democratic nation in the region serves no-one, and certainly doest serve the goal of encouraging liberal democracy, as we can see from the results of the recent Iranian elections.

As for your retribution strategy, well, you might want to do a google on "iterated prisoners dilemma" (I found this introductory reference http://www.netalive.org/topics/13965). Either way, your solution seems extreme.

Dayon, are you Israeli? You solution reminds me of how the Israelis deal with the Palestinians. I dont think anyone could say that the history of the relationship between Israelis and Palestinians could be viewed as anything but a disaster.

Posted by: DM at August 10, 2005 11:19 PM

And you, DM, sound a bit like a small, not very bright child who resorts to name calling when an intellectual resonse escape him (the irony does not escape me). We are dealing with a real life, and for many civilians in Iraqi, death situation(kudos to Kerby, by the way, for his update on the actual situation in that land).
You see, the problem is that there are people who, with no real provocation, just lame justifications (I and my people are failures, so it must be all your fault!), attack and murder those who have done them no harm. They also attack and butcher those who are even of their own faith who just wish to live their lives in peace and be left alone.
Additional parts of the problem are people who would excuse this behavior (I and my people are failures, so it must be all your fault! You're so right, we're soo horrobile, it's alright if you kill and maim and butcher the innocent, so longs as it isn't me).
The solutions I have offered have worked against the sources of terrorism before, they will work again. They may not be PC, but they will work. Yes, you may state that my solutions are rather bloody, however they are effective in stopping a proxy war. So you must decide, do you set someone like me on these murderers or do you accept their murder of the innocent? Do you dry up their resources and deny them safe haven or do you allow their killing of innocent men, women, and children to continue? Come, come, DM, give us a more practical solution than planetary relocation. We could, of course, send you as special embassary to any of the terrorists cell with arms full of love and flowers and good will toward all, and see how long you last. Like you said, "It just seems so right, ya know."

Posted by: Dayon at August 10, 2005 12:00 PM

BIGMACM - one correction though - the war was actually started by the US in the 1950s when it overthrew a popularily elected and democratic governement in Iran, and installing the brutal and repessive Shah. When the Iranian popular revolution happened, the US took the Shah in and refused to hand him over. Its a bit as if Russia had offered Hitler refuge at the end of WWI. Only then did the Iranians take hostages. The war by the US on Iran was continued throughout the Iran-Iraq war when it supported Saddam Hussein, supplying him with cluster bombs, chemical weapons, and satelite photography.

Iran was one of the cradles of civilisation, and thousands of years before the first verstiges of european civilation, King Cyrus of Persia was declaring that "all men are created equal".

Every nation choses or makes its enemies. If there is enimnity, one has to ask where it comes from, and to take some measure of responsibility for it.

Posted by: DM at August 9, 2005 08:16 PM

What "Kerry" wrote should be heard by as AMERICANS as can be. Sure the media is biased. They are the backbone of the 'demon-craps'. When we can get real news, from real reporters, that will be the only time that the country will believe anything. One correction though--This war started in November 1979, by IRAN !! and it continued with every bombing of American outposts.We need to get off the political bandwagon and on the side of our fighting men & womwn-GOD BLESS THEM!!

Posted by: THEBIGMACM at August 9, 2005 03:05 PM

I have been reading all the posts and just got back from the middle east a few months ago and most of you people have not a clue about what is going on over there. We are doing fine. At this point we have lost about 1800 troops. What the media won't mention is that about one third of those deaths are from accidents, sickness, and some suicides. There have been over 300,000 to 400,000 troops delpoyed, some more than once since this thing has kicked off so you do the math..your odds of coming back home alright is pretty good. You people need to realize that we are at war and that the terrorist are pretty much everywhere..Iran, Africa, Syria, Saudi Arabia...so this is not going to end very soon. The problem is that the U.S. and England are fighting this war by themselves. You people need to understand these extremist hate America and it's people...it does not matter if you are Christian or not. We could leave Iraq today and it won't matter to them, they will claim a victory, beat their chest, then plan their next attacks where there are more Americans. During D-day invasion in 1944 we lost over 6000 troops in one day and althought it was a shame the American public knew we were going to win. What happen to that resolve? I have been over there and I am telling you we are killing them whole sale! We lost 1800 in a few years. The thing that pisses us off is that all the schools, hospitals, donations, fixing mosques, and killing insurgents is not making the news. The media is basically a propaganda tool for the terrorist. You people also need to get off the Presidents ass, he is doing the right thing. Clinton sent troops into Bosnia and we are still there after 10 years! And before you think I am against Clinton, I am not..I actually voted for him. I also voted for Bush. So I am not comitted to just one party. Remember this, the terriorst started this thing on Sept. 11th, 2001 and in that single attack they killed more than the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor. In the battle for Okinawa and some other Islands we lost over 12,000 Marines in a few months. I am getting sick and tired of hearing the liberals in this country bad mouthing the President, our country and how we live, being Christian and having good morals for living. I am listening to a bunch of whining people who never left the U.S. telling others we should'nt be over there and acting like they could do a better job as president. WISE UP people, the terriorist are not going to stop until they are defeated...We could give them everything they wanted and they will not stop until America is ruined. The terrorist will try to bomb America again, believe me on that, and know that Iran has a new President who is Anti-American and a prior terrorist himself who wants to start Nuclear capabilities. Last I will say again, we are doing fine...I have pictures of some of the great things we are doing over there if anybody is interested or you do not believe me. Also I challenge the media, mainly CNN, ABC, and or NBC to say that I am lying. I have been there myself and ask most soldiers and Marines and they will tell you the same...BIG MEDIA is biased. The media needs to report the bad and the good..let America and the world do their own thinking. Thank you.

Posted by: KERBY at August 8, 2005 11:58 PM

You do not need a machine shop to make a crude self forming penatrator devise. Shape charges are very simple to make one can use a #10 can and make about a 5 pound shape charge and as far as the penatrator goes it does not have to be copper, copper is used because of the way it is affected by heat, copper melts very uniformly. A steal plate shaped for the cone of the charge will also work the devise will just not be as effective. That can be compensated for by increasing the size. Shape charges are not rocket science I learned this stuff in basic demo classes in the 80's

Posted by: Louie at August 8, 2005 07:27 PM

First of to the Norwegian; FUCK OFF! Your little piss-ass country has never done ANYTHING on the scale of what America has; how can you compare a few thousand man "Peacekeeping" mission to the War on Terror.

I travel a lot throughout Europe and the mentality of the people their astound me! All of this crap about torture; WHAT TORTURE! I don't call putting a pair of panties on some rags head or turning down the AC torture! Hell I went through worse stuff when I was in a University Fraternity. Europe has a very rude awaking coming their way; they are already paying for their Liberal Immigration policies. Notice how The Netherlands handled its “Muslim Problem” after the death of a certain celebrity? They deported their sorry asses. And look how Britain was repaid for taking in all of these Muslim “refuges” who lived on the Government Tit for years; or their refusal to stop radical Muslim Clerics from Recruiting Al Quida members on the streets of London.

Also it does not take anything special to make a shaped charge; I can make one with a soup can, C-4 and a coke bottle for Gods sake! Anyone who ever worked with military explosives can do the same; a shaped charge is created by the shape of the charge, its nothing special.

Posted by: FnF at August 8, 2005 03:59 PM

It seems to me that people and service people have no confidence or morale due to the fact the liberals and Communists have so conditioned America NOT to tolerate any war lasting longer than two years and that kills more tha 1,500 of our soliders!

The mother who lost her son in Crawford ahould BE ASHAMED of they way she is tarnishing his memory AND THE OTHERS!I bet she was all happy and gun ho to get all the money and benefits, but paying the Price is suddenly unacceptable EVEN THOUGH IT WAS HER SON'S DESIRE, solely because the Democrats would rather ruin our country that come together to winn this for evenyone!

If you want to talk about Nazi's talk about Arab Nazis and the Danish guy should go eat more Danish, as they have never fought anything, and the biggest combat he has seen is a peace keeping mission under the UN, which means nothing, except more America bashing!

When the bird flue hits we should keep ALL vacciones we produce and STOP GIVING THE WORLD OUR SECRETS IN FORUMS LIKE THIS!!!

Our Danish "friend" and the world is in denial allright, but it is about the fact THIS IS A RELIGEOUS WAR NOT THE POLICE ACTION YOU WANT TO SAY WE CAUSED!

THIS MESS WAS ALL CAUSED BY THE EURO-PEONS THAT WERE SELLING ARMS TO SADDAM RIGHT UP TO D-dAY!

IF YOU WANT TO BLAME ANYONE, THEN BLAME THE FRENCH,GERMANS,RUSSIANS,CHINESE AND OTHER SCUM THAT ALL VOTED, THEN STABBED THE WORLD IN THE VACK FOR A HANDFULL OF MONEY AND OIL!!

I AM SORRY BUT IF YOU CROOKED EURO-PEONS HAD NOT BEEN SO GREEDY AND ANXIOUS TO KILL AMERICANS "ALLIES", THIS WAR WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AT ALL!! YOU ARE THE GUILTY AS ALWAYS AND WE ARE THE ONES LEFT LEANING IT ALL UP! iF THE NUKES FLY, IT WILL BE ON YOUR HEADS AND NOT AMERIC'AS LIKE THE FOREIGHN SCUM OF THE WORLD WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE!! THEY ARE NO LONGER ALLIES AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE PULLING OUT OUR FORCES AND LET RUSSIA HAVE AT EM ALL FOR THEIR TREACHEROUS LIES, YOU AND THE WORLD START BELIEVEING! STOP THE SAME VIETNAM "SHAME AND BLAME" TACTICS COOKED UP BY THE SAME KERRY THE KOWARD SCUM!! WE ARE THERE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND SATOP LETTING PEOPLE SAY BUSH LIED WHEN HE DID NOT LIE AND WE ALL KNOW IT, EXCPET THE FOREIGN NOISE WE LISTEN TO SAHKES OUR CONFIDENCE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE dEMOCRATS AND SUCH CALL OUR pRESIDENT RIDUCLES AND CHILDISH NAMES THAT MAKES US LOOK EVEN MORE STUPID!!!

DO NOT LISTEN OR COUNT ON THE DUMBOCRATS FOR ANYTHING AND A VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT IS A VOTAE AGAINST AMERICA, AS IT IS CLEAR THEY ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO MAKE SURE WE LOSE...."BUT HECK YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB THIS TIME IN THIS WRONG,ILLEGAL WAR" IS JUST BS LIP SERVICE! IF YOU DO VOTE A DUMBOCRT LIKE BILLARY OR BIDEN, THEY WILL START ANOTHER WAR, AS THAT WILL BE THE ONLY POSSIBLE INSURANCE THEY WOULD HAVE FOR RE-ELECTION TO A SECOND TERM! THAT IS WHY WHATEVER YOU FEEL, IT CAN AND IS A LOT WORSE BECAUSE ONLY HALF OF THE COUNTRY IS TRUELY AND REALLY CHEERING FOR YOU! THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY JUST DOES NOT WANT ANY WAR, BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD TO FIGHT AND ARE TOO STUPID TO REALIZE A MISSLE CAN HIT US FROM IRAN AND N. KOREA BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

THE REASON IT IS SO HARD TODAY IS BECAUSE OF ALMOST 10 YEARS ON DELIBERATE AND CONSTANT ABUSE bILLARY ALLOWED THEM, AND WOULD AGAIN IF LET EVEN NEAR THE OFFICE! a VOTE FOR BILLARY OR ANY DEMOCRAT IS A VOTE AGAINST OUR SERVICES, NO MATTER WHAT HAT BILLARY IS WEARING THAT DAY!!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR BRAVE AND SELFLESS SERVICE AS THIS IS A VERY TOUGH MENTAL TEST THAT WILL MAKE YOU SO MUCH STRONGER,THAT YOU DO NOT REALIZE NOW. STAY STRONG AND KNOW THERE ARE MILLIONS MORE LIKE ME AND I DONATE HEAVILY TO ALL GOP AND DEFENSE!!

I USED TO BE A DEMOCRAT,AS WE ALL ARE WHEN YOUNG AND IDEALISTIC, AS THEIR NAME SOUNDS GREAT AND IDEAS ARE UTOPIAN....AND NOT REAL. COLLEGE RUINED MY POLITICS AS THEY ONLY TEACH HOW BAD AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS AND COSPIRACY THEORIES GALORE TO FILL IN THE PARTS THAT DON'Y FIT OR HAVE DETAILS.

GEOPOLITICAL ECONOMICS ARE EXTREMELY COMPLEX, AND MOST OF US DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO KNOW ANY TRUTHS FOR CERTAIN,JUST LIKE GOD. tHAT IS WHY WE MUST HAVE LEADERS THAT ARE BOLD,AS TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE US ALL SO VERY VULNERABLE FROM THESE STATE SPONSORED tERRORISTS!THAT THE SAUDI'S HAVE MINED THEIR WELLS, AND WILL REPLACE THEM WITH NUKES, IS AN ACT OF WAR. THE OIL IS THEIR'S TO SELL OR WHATEVER,BUT NOT TO DETSTROY THE WORLD WITH! fRANCE AND eURO-pEONS SELLING ARMS TO KILL OUR SOLIDERS WITH IS ALSO AN ACT OF WAR SO REALIZE NO ONE IS YOUR FRIENND EXCEPT THE LOYAL PEOPLE YOU HELP, AND THE LOYAL REPUBLICANS THAT SUPPORT YOU MORE THAN ANY OTHER PARTY EVER WILL, AND THAT IS PROVEN THROUGH HISTORY!

Posted by: Steve N Rabkin at August 8, 2005 11:18 AM

Until theres some credible evidence that the Iranians are trying to create anything but a civil society on their borders, lets keep the Iran war-talk to a minimum please.

Dayon - you sound a bit like bin Laden.

To all you head cutters, spleen venters, and mass murderers out there (Dayon and Jds, you especially) - you are the problem, or at least, people like you are the problem. The solution, of course, is to move you all to a small moon around jupiter and arm you with nuclear hand-grenades. The cost would be born by televising the events that would follow, and humanity would be rid of a pool of potential war criminals.

It just seems so right, ya know.

Posted by: DM at August 8, 2005 10:54 AM

Does anyone here remember that old military saw, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? During the hayday of the terrorists 70's, we had the IRA training in the same camps and networking with the PLO, Sunni and Shia working together is not really surprising or all that unrealistic. As always, they will turn on each other again, if no other enemy is there. Iran has seemed to have learn a valuable lesson as well; it is better,less expensive, and safer to fight a proxy war than to go head to head with a Superpower. For the price of a few machined parts (the equivilant of a single factory's output for a day) they frighten the weak at heart, give ammunition to the President's opposition, kill our soldiers, and receive the praise and acclamation of those who refuse to stand against fundamental evils (such as expressed by even some here). For them, it is a win win situation with very little cost. We should raise that cost and make such interference, very, very expensive.
Let us not waste time and our soldiers lives by invading, let us rather destroy critical infrastructure, such as their oil pipelines, their tankers, their comm centers, their nuclear testing facilities. Anything they value of a seculiar nature is fair game. For every IED that goes off, they lose something. We say nothing, we give no warning, we make no statement afterwards. We just do it.
Next, we set up a DMZ. Anything or anyone that attempts to cross is destroyed without warning, without reprieve, without regret or sympathy. Make them more frightened of us than of anything else on this planet and let them know the price of their evil is death. However, if they leave us and our friends alone, they keep on breathing.

Posted by: Dayon at August 8, 2005 10:31 AM

It's absurd to suggest that the Iranians would be helping the *Sunni* insurgents - as insane as imagining the Reverend Ian Paisley smuggling arms for the IRA, or more so. The Iranians want an Iraq dominated by pro-Iranian, Shia politicians - in short, SCIRI. They don't want the people they fought for nine years. It's that simple.

Re: Copper. Anyone care to guess where those power lines they kept cutting down went? Everyone thought they were doing it for profit - but who was buying? Classic 4GW - put out the lights, turn a profit, and gain the resources needed to upgrade your bombs all in one insurgent trifecta.

Posted by: Alex at August 8, 2005 05:44 AM

I completely agree. American MI needs massive restructuring. But I also agree that the U.S. is doing all it can to fight for what it belives in. Aternatively, what other choice does it have? When any superpower is attacked, they will retaliate. And yes, although some of America's actions have been unwarranted to their claim, their actions are still warranted nonetheless. When a countries' government is regularly commiting war crimes, is not representative of its citizens and is not willing to negotiate or improve itself, then action needs to be taken. Am I implying that America should be the country to take action? no. I agree with the suggestion about bringing in international peacekeeping troops. I think that every country should be able to voice its opinion and contribute to the international cause. But this statement falls short when placed into current context. International enforcement cannot occur without the support from those respective countries. The U.S. is not opposed to outside help, but thus far, there has been no indication to send such an elite force of 5000 to Iraq. And as far an international aid assistance is considered, yes Norway has done an incredible job in regard to assistance, and yes the U.S. does have a large amount of tied aid, but is not alone in this respect. Criticism will not resolve the world's problems, nor will the ill judgment of a superpowers military.

To this day, there has never been desicive military action against two opposing democracies, and if democracy continues to be upheld, there never will be.

Posted by: Just Another Thought at August 8, 2005 02:16 AM

Kier, if American intel is such hot shit, than how come we have NO CLUE as to the Table of Organization of the insurgents, after nearly two and a half years?

While their intel is so curst good they can set up and bag an entire squad in support of a Marine sniper team. Which they did, just last week.

Posted by: Infosec Guy at August 7, 2005 11:01 PM

as everyone knows,WE DO THE THINGS THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD WANT DO!BUT IN THE END THEY AS A WHOLE ARE GLAD WE DID.REMEMBER COWARDS CAN TALK THE TALK,BUT THEY CANT WALK THE WALK.
I HAVE BEEN TO IRAQ AND I KNOW ITS WORKING!
DEESE OUT
PS-THANKS TO OUR ITALIAN FRIENDS ANTICA BABILONIA

Posted by: benny deese at August 7, 2005 08:30 PM

Further to Kier's comment:
"America Kicks A-S!"
"YEAH!"
"You want a piece of this?!?"
"F--k yeah!"

Posted by: Aaron at August 7, 2005 08:25 PM

Personally i am appaled that no one in America has yet had the guts to put that norwegian who posted earlier in his place. Who does he think he is, telling us how to fight the war on terror when the countries he's suggesting we have the balls to fight to begin with. And as for all the bashing of american military intelligence, ours is the finest military intelligence collection in the world. From satelites in space to the marines and soldiers on the ground everything is state of the art and held to highest levels of profeesionalism. The field of fire doctrine being bashed by this walking heap eurotrash has gvien us the 100 hour gropund war, victory in Afghanistan, victory in major combat operations in Iraq, not to mention the breaking of almost every offensive military with the exception of those set by another american army, Patton's third. And as for our alleged greed and facism, would somebody please tell that idiot he would be speaking german right now if it weren't for the greedy facist americans. And for norways "50 years of succesful peacekeeping" when was the last time norway had the nuts to stand up for what is right and bring democracy to 50 million people
Let me think.... NEVER!
So until that happens mr. norwegian stop your belly aching and say thank you for once. You owe us your very freedom, but we'll settle for your respect.

Posted by: Kier at August 7, 2005 04:42 PM

Jds... ask your mom what she thinks of your beheading of families strategy. She probably thinks youre a fucking idiot, as I do.

On shaped charge IEDs: Copper is malleable. It can be hammered into shape. Think about the guys who make AK47s using hand-tools in norther pakistan. You dont think they can maked shaped charges?

The real problem isnt shaped charges anyway - its self-forging fragments, but even these can be made using hand-tools, and it takes no stretch of the imagination to picture some scientist somewhere in Iraq knowing how to make these. Its just a known configuration of explosives and metal.

No conspiracies required.

Posted by: DM at August 7, 2005 03:16 PM

But machining tools is the common stuff. A lathe is not a horribly sophisticated machine, there are HOW many millions of them? And if you are willing to be slow, a file and saw may be sufficient.

You have three components to manufacture an effective IED:

Raw Materials

Machining Tools

Skill

Skill has been democratized, we have so much information already out there about the decentralized but very effective communication infrastructures built: One insurgent (eg, some former Baath party commando) discovers something and in a couple weeks, every insurgent knows it.

Machining is common: Any metal shop should have the level of machining needed to build these shaped charges: a lathe and a mill. Or, if patient, some of the machining could even be done by hand. Some insurgent could get grandma to cut copper pieces.

Its often the materials that are the limit, at least for anybody in the first world (it was a significant limit on the London bombers, if they had HMX or RDX, they would have probably killed more people and been able to detonate more reliably). But in Iraq, thanks to our gross mishandling of known caches, combined with who knows how many unknown caches, materials aren't a problem either.

If anything, what may be the limit is not explosive but COPPER. You need to have a pretty big hunk to machine into what you want (unless the copper pieces are mosaics pieced together), so unless you have a furnice (and could therefore cast the parts you need from scrap, and then you would probably cast bits, and a furnice ain't quite as stealthy as a machine shop), where is the copper comming from?

The proof/suggestion of some significant unified actor would NOT be common design theme (which suggests many manufacturers following the same idea), but common implementation (eg, IDENTICAL shapes & sizes rather than close. Casting of metal parts intead of machining. Common (single tool) marks on multiple IEDs).

Some things (eg, mosaic'ed copper pieces, evidence of hand tools) would strongly suggest local design and implementation.

So there are things which could tell you whether some single significant entitity is making these IEDs, or we have the distributed network which appears to be happening. And the presence of shaped and formed explosive charges, given the information and materials available in Iraq, is perfectly consistent with the distributed-network model of the insurgency.

Posted by: Nicholas Weaver at August 7, 2005 12:50 PM

Nick: If I understand right, HDX and the like aren't really what makes shaped charges. The important part is machining copper (or another metal) into the proper form.

Eek: legit point.

Posted by: Noah Shachtman at August 7, 2005 11:06 AM

I have a better suggestion! Grab all the religious leaders that spew hate about Americans and kill them,(BEHEAD) them and put their heads on a pole outside of the city! Also kill all of their familes, brothers, cousins, sisters, e.t.c. burn down their houses and kill all the live stock they have! Then kill any one coming across the borders of Iran and Syria that we can find by beheading them also and puting their heads on a pole so they can see them from their border post! This will cause them to think enough about their crimes and it will show them we mean business! I know about real evil! My mom spent 2 years in a concentration camp in Germany fot two years during WW2 so don't tell me about how wrong we are! We are their to fight evil and bring the region into mordern day were women are treated as equals not like some property to do with as you please like cattle!

Posted by: Jds at August 7, 2005 09:57 AM

Even if it turns out that the new bomb-factories are situated in Iran, the process of such cooperation should come as no surprise. The areas of Iraq and Iran are at best porous, that is there are smuggling routes that date back approx. three thousand years, and are in no way under governmental control. The american army has shown an unprecedented ignorance of the situation-on-the-ground, especially in believing that the islamic societies are massive blocks of coordinated people. The arms-dealers of Kandahar and Baluchistan dont give a shit about ethnicity, nor do the dope-runners of the Afghan passes.

How this ever-evolving level of ignorance has been allowed into the US military doctrine is beyond my understanding. While the real fighters of Iraq (the proffesional army contigent who targets americans) have shown adaptability and unflinching resolve, the american forces seem stuck in a negative adaptability-spiral, where when something doesnt work people simply lie and pretend it isnt so. The US Army doctrine of field-of-fire as opposed to aim-and-shoot is obviously hopelessly idiotic in a occupation-situation, as is the usage of untrained 18-year olds without language skills in the same.

As a norwegian, I would like to point to my countrys 50 years of succesful peacekeeping-practice and suggest that the US Army pick up some doctrinal skills for the handling of civilians. The US gung ho! mentality is defeating the US political aims, and the blatant use of torture is too obvious for anyone but the US public to close its eyes to. Blatant hypocricy and a almost surreal approach to the problems of conflict, combined with an unmasked greed and rudeness are currently spelling the doom of the US hegemony just 10 years after it got started. From our pov, the us forces are behaving like the fascists in "liberated" Ukraine. Only now are the partisans getting warmed up.

My solution? Get together an elite force of 50000 peacekeeping international troops, with a core from the Russian army (Spetznas) set under Scandinavian command and given 3 months of scandinavian doctrinal tutoring. Set these in charge of helping Separate the country into three separate zones, and let each sector get autonomy. Immediate resignation of George Bush jr. and a subsequent trial for war crimes of both him and his father. Imediate handing over of all prisoners in custody at Bagram, Garcia Diego, Abu ghraib and Guatanamo to an international tribune. Drop the christian rhetoric. Pay proper compensation for civilians killed. Build some godamn roads and use LOCAL CONTRACTORS. Drop the porkbarrel-approach to rebuilding a country. (Especially this last part is crucial. Example: Haliburton got a contract for rebuilding a bridge at 15 million dollars. The main engineer who had rebuilt it 3 times before after american bombing, said he used approx 300000 for each of those rebuildings. Where did the difference go?)

There are many of us who dont hate america, as a principle and a state. but there are many of us who each time we hear american spoken in our european cities get a certain association to hearing german spoken in 1932. That the american military complex still is as stupid and brutal as it was under Vietnam is a goddamned shame.

Posted by: MK at August 7, 2005 08:37 AM

What's Farsi for "Tonkin Gulf"?

Di di mau, y'all!

Posted by: Sean Burke at August 7, 2005 06:22 AM

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05211638.htm

WASHINGTON, Aug 5 (Reuters) - The British general commanding multinational troops in southeastern Iraq said on Friday that worries about Iranian influence in Iraq appeared to be based largely on speculation, not facts.

The comment to Pentagon reporters by British Royal Marines Maj. Gen. J.B. Dutton came as senior U.S. officials continued to charge that Tehran's government was actively trying to sidetrack Baghdad's fledging democracy.

"The question of Iranian involvement is always a difficult one because there's a lot of speculation about it and not many facts," Dutton said in a teleconference interview from his Basra headquarters in southern Iraq.

Posted by: DM at August 6, 2005 11:53 PM

How am I supposed to believe anything that comes from the NYTimes or the military, or the govt.?
Does this mean they want to invade Iran???

Posted by: Aaron at August 6, 2005 11:07 PM

You know, I get a bit tired of seeing these 'reports' in the NYT that offer 'evidence' on a hearsay basis. How much credence do we give 'a military official' after the bullshit published up to the Iraq fiasco.

Given the level of sophistication in Iraqi culture before we bombed 'em back to the stone age, I'd say there is a good chance they might have a machinist or two around with the motivation and/or training to produce a device the was 'machined' and had a level 'of some sophistication'. CRAP!! If this really is the level of our military Intel, it's no wonder we are getting our butts kicked......

Posted by: eek at August 6, 2005 10:49 PM

Aren't there at least 100 TONs of RDX and HMX explosive out there looted from but a single site and Allah (or his servants) only know where? And who knows what else?

Isn't the whole point of these explosives is there ability to make high quality shaped explosive charges?

Posted by: Nicholas Weaver at August 6, 2005 06:24 PM