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Posted by: shahid at October 20, 2007 10:12 AM

With a new smart it could very well be effective. But to tell you one thing i learned as an artillery man, is that the copperhead round has been our laser guided round and it is a big waste of money. It is old and not effective when it does its own thing. If you want to build a new round build one that will destroy things better. Civilian casualties are apart of war and its going to continue for years, so i would not go on and blame arty for every round that goes short or long. We just need better upgrades to a systems that has worked for years.

Posted by: 3 cav at December 29, 2005 12:09 PM

THIS IS REALLY GREAT!!!

Posted by: STEFAN MARK SOLVASON at November 22, 2005 10:03 PM

Good Evening Rey,

You might be to far down the food chain to get this information, have your boss put yu on the list Rey, but on July 7, 2005 DoD put out the tentive basing of where the new "Brigade Centric" units will be. Ft. Hood will have 5 BCT's, the 4Id is still at Ft. Carson as well as the 3ACR when it returns from the war zone. The 2ACR (Stryker) now at Ft. Lweis will go to NATO and relieve the 1ID. The 1st. Cav Division HHQ. was left off the list.

As far as AR/NG vs. Active Units goes it looks like that in the future there will be little difference, when 1/184 Infantry (Ca. Nat. Guard., 40th. Div.) is in Iraq as part of the 3ID even a blind man can see.

One thing you are right about is that in the future all Artilery will be in Battalions, execpt ACR Regiments at least for right now and assigned to a BCT, which can be any assortment of Battilions that the Chain wants. Under this doctrine change there will no longer be any Divisional or Corps. level Artillery Battalions.

I don't know what insights you might have Rey, so far in posts you haven't shown any. As a matter of speculation I would guess that the Artillery School will relocated to Ft. Benning as will the Armor School from Ft. Knox to create a training center for heavy ground forces.

Keep defending the faith Rey, we are doing some good here with our bickering.

Our dialogue on the Marines contributed in part to the folling Contracts last week. BAE Systems got $26 Million to set up a line for the EFV-C, which is not the the 2005/2006 budget, the Navy (Marines) ordered 50K M-16A4's, new orders were placed for additional M-2HB, Mk. 19's and M-240B's, all critically short in Marine Combat Units and was not in the new budget.

The cherry on the Ice Cream cone thought was an order placed with Black Hills Ammunitation for 5.56mm x 77gr. rounds for a project the Marines are working on to try and make up for the short falls of the current M-16A4 and the 5.56 x 62gr. Round.

Since these funds came out of year end money it makes things even sweeter. The Brass had to give up some golf courses and other MWR unfunded projects that this sluh money usually goes for.

I still stand by what I said about Generals and disagree strongly regarding there aggrated intelligence. Before 9/11 we had 950 Flag Officers, I'm sure that number has expanded thats way to many to justify for out boutique armed forces.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
"Stewart's Platoon"

Posted by: Byron Skinner at October 2, 2005 11:04 PM

Mr. Skynner,

Yet again you prove not to have an idea of the lingo involved in this "deactivation." DIVARTYs do not evaporate, they are split and incorporated into the other brigades. As I wrote in my previous post(you can check it), is that while the DIVARTY is no longer a separate brigade, the units in the DIVARTY are now part of the brigade. Perhaps you have a reading problem...

As far as being "disconnected," far from the truth. I am stationed right here at Fort Hood, home of the 1st Cav, III Corps, 13 COSCOM and 4th ID, later 3rd ACR. Where are you? In a cave hiding from the black helicopters used by the evil military-industrial complex?

In my previous post I also noted that our mission is varied: "While we were in Iraq not only did we conduct patrols and convoy ops, but also counterfire missions and fire in support of infantry ops. So trust me, we are still firing..." Did I write that or not Byron? Problems with your reading...

Again, as an artillery man, I have far more insight than you on Fort Sill. While they have been traing National Guard troops like every other active post (Ft Hood is doing the same), before sending them overseas, it does not mean they are now National Guard posts. Are they controlled by state officials? I don't think so Byron.

And what's up with wishing for the death of our Generals Byron? Are you demented? Only someone with a very bad problem, or an enemy of the country, would wish for something like that. It's okay to dissent, but you are taking it too far... Our Generals have a proven military record and are some of the most brilliant minds in our country. People like you, constantly bitching and moaning about everything the government does or fails to do, only make the job harder for them. So go on patriot, keep making no sense!

Thanks!!

Posted by: rey at October 2, 2005 04:30 PM

Good Morning Rey,

It looks like you haven't gotten the word yet. In recent weeks both the 1st. Cav. Divison and the 25th. Infantry Division (Light) have "Transformed" their Division HHQ's and held de-activation cermonies for all their Divisional Artillery Units.

If you noticed from the daily KIA's posted a large number of deaths are ADA and Field Artilert Soldiers who have now been tasked as "Light Infantry" and are doing convoy escort and Street Patrol Missions.

A clue is when the cause of death is listed as "IED's" or "Small Arms Fire", they are not sitting on Battery waiting for a fire mission call.

Units sechedualed to follow de-activating their Artillrty Battalions are the 1AD, 1ID the 3ID has aready de-activated their Divisional Artilley Units.

You seem to want to hold me responsible for what is happening in the military. Believe me I have a lot of respect for the Cannon Cockers, I've been in places where "Fire Missons" saved our butts. I'm not saying that I agree with what the DoD Civilians, who have never seen combat and the brucratics in uniforms in the Pentagon are doing to the U.S. Army orfor that matter any of the other branched of the military.

I think the best moral booster in Iraq or Afghanistan would be to have a General or two killed in combat. But that will never happen when the war is ran from behind a desk in the Pentagon and by CNN/FOX NEWS.

I guess you also don't get "Soldiers" magazine where they had an article a couple of issue back, before BRAC, on Ft's Sill and Bliss.

Stay in touch Rey, your lack of knowledge and insights are always welcomed.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
"Stewart's Platoon"

Posted by: Byron Skinner at October 2, 2005 03:32 PM

"With a 50 meter kill radius for a 155mm HE they might as well load it with concrete and try and hit them in the head to avoid hurting someones feelings. It requires a skilled operator to locate the target to the nearest meter (easting/northing/elevation). A cheaper Laser guided would have been better so as to follow the tgt. Keep giving the contactors BILLIONS and they will say anything."

Good point. Or maybe a .50 cal with a microchip and sensor in it! ("Smart munitions") Or just send a sniper team after them!

Does seem like kind of a waste for a 155mm round. Maybe this is the biggest 'sniper rifle' ever invented! But who am I to argue with 'defense experts?'

Posted by: Kilo Echo 4 at October 2, 2005 12:15 PM

They better have their defecation into consolidation, kilo echo has a point !!

Posted by: Dorman Davis at October 2, 2005 09:04 AM

What worries me about all this satellite dependent stuff is what happens if your satellites get taken out by an EMP blast from a close proximity missile in space?

All the net-centric stuff, the future forces sat-dependent stuff, just how protected is it all from things like EMP, or cyber attack? And what happens if you loose it? Can you still function in an older, more conventional way? What if your carrier battle group is blinded? Then what?

We need Star Wars weapons to protect our Sats.

Posted by: Kilo Echo 4 at October 1, 2005 02:36 PM

Byron, Byron...

Again, you write nonsense. First of all, Field Artillery Battalions are NOT being disbanded. Instead, they are being reorganized. For example, instead of having a DIVARTY acting as an independent brigade, the FA battalions within DIVARTY are now organic to the self-contained brigades. The Battalions eliminated one of the three batteries, but augmented the other two with the former battery's equipment and personnel. No loss there. Furthermore, fires are now even more responsive than before.

While we were in Iraq not only did we conduct patrols and convoy ops, but also counterfire missions and fire in support of infantry ops. So trust me, we are still firing...

If you think Ft Sill is a National Guard post, you are sorely mistaken. It is still as vibrant as ever training FA and poised to recieve thousands more troops under BRAC. I am in the Field Artillery, I know.

Get your facts straight Mr. Negative, I mean Skinner.

Thanks

Posted by: rey at September 30, 2005 11:31 PM

The Chief of Staff of the Army,General Schoomaker needs to be informed about Excalibur (and other very accurate artillery,like Guided MLRS,already used successfully in Iraq). He recently was quoted as saying,"what makes artillery heavy is the ammunition. It takes 70 rounds from one gun at a fixed target to get a high probability of kill.You do the math.Why in the world would we continue to build in that direction instead of turning to precision strike aircraft that don't depend on ammunition trucks in forward locations..."
Please someone let the Chief know he is ill-informed,or just under pressure to do the "joint thing" by telling us to go to the Air Force.

Posted by: jim lincoln,Colonel,USA,Ret at September 30, 2005 06:48 PM

With a 50 meter kill radius for a 155mm HE they might as well load it with concrete and try and hit them in the head to avoid hurting someones feelings. It requires a skilled operator to locate the target to the nearest meter (easting/northing/elevation). A cheaper Laser guided would have been better so as to follow the tgt. Keep giving the contactors BILLIONS and they will say anything.

Posted by: ops chief at September 30, 2005 01:33 PM

They use the delay detonation to avoid collateral damage. Round goes into the ground and most of the blast effect is very "localised" because most of the blast goes up not out. Anyone hear about the Airforce using cement bombs with GPS to avoid collateral damage?
Semper Fi,
Tipy

Posted by: Terry at September 30, 2005 12:57 PM

why not it put in battleship with it? like BB-61, BB-62 etc.

Posted by: chris at September 30, 2005 11:24 AM

Good Evening Folks,

What irony here just as indirect fire is losing it's popularity with the fortune tellers who are shapping the future of ground combat the "Excalibut" and the M-30 8" "Guided" Rocket comes along.

The "Field Artillery" has become the "Horse Cavalry" of the 21st. Century. Big bore direct fire canon is the current perfered fire support now. As Army Divisions and Corps become "Transformed" the first units to be disbanded are the Field Artillery Battalions and the AAA Artilery (Missile) some will be reconstituted with in the National Guard but in much smaller numbers.

The soldiers of Field Artillery Battalions have been "Transformed" into "Light Infantry" and Ft's Sill and Bliss have taken new rolls with in the Army.

Ft. Sill, home of Field Artillery is now mostly a National Guard Basic Combat Training Post with Light Infantry AIT. Ft. Bliss, formaly the home of the Ground to Air and Ground to Ground Rocket/Missile Artillery will be home to a Divison Hqs., the 1st. Armored Division and to three or four Brigade Combat Teams.

With in the U.S. Army the King of Battle is looking a little frayed around the edges. Have we seen the last of the "Canon Cockers?"

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
"Stewart's Platoon"

Posted by: Byron Skinner at September 29, 2005 10:39 PM

Let test the Gun in Iraq first.
& then place near the US Mex border area.
Nice defense.
PGM by cannon.

Posted by: stephen russell at September 29, 2005 09:02 PM

Let test the Gun in Iraq first.
& then place near the US Mex border area.
Nice defense.
PGM by cannon.

Posted by: stephen russell at September 29, 2005 09:02 PM

Oh and I assuming the round can actually change target in mid flight in order to "follow the bad guys". The article doesnt say.

Posted by: jtw at September 29, 2005 05:37 PM

What vehicle is this round designed for?

Sadly if this causes an additional process of programming the round, and not automatically, it could delay the much needed speedy return fire or suppresion fire mission.

Posted by: Vstress at September 29, 2005 05:36 PM

I cant see a bunch of soldiers calling off a shell in mid flight because the group of bad guys ran into a civilian marketplace. Hopefully we come up with something better for urban combat. Maybe a direct fire UAV because of the small amount of time it would take for the munition to reach its target. Else in urban fighting a SAT guided artillery shell is not going to be much good if the bad guys move to a place where the collateral damage would be too high. It would be just wasting a perfectly good artillery shell.

Maybe the Army has some hyper speed artillery shell that has a time to target of under 5 seconds but I doubt it.

This weapon would rock though for non urban combat. Like engaging vehicle(s) or a roving group of bad guys.

Posted by: jtw at September 29, 2005 05:35 PM

Wouldn't it be more accurate to describe this as 'sat-guided artillery shells', since it's the shell that uses GPS terminal guidance?

In any case, I think it's a bit disingenuous of Raytheon to imply that this eliminates the probability of collateral damage. 155mm shells make a big freaking blast when they explode, and regardless of whether they do so at roof or window level anybody on that side of the building is in for it.

It's good that the troops will sometimes have the option of calling in precision artillery strikes, with much smaller minimum-safe-distance limitations. My problem is with unrealistic expectations, like the ability to take out an enemy combatant at window level without major collateral damage.

Posted by: AlphaGeek at September 29, 2005 03:04 PM

Pull down that link, it damn near got me fired...

Way to be a tool, assa.

Posted by: Chris at September 29, 2005 03:00 PM