Defense Tech: Rapid Fire 11/21/05


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Edited by Christian Lowe \| Contact

Rapid Fire 11/21/05

* 19 types of drones in Iraq

* India 2, USAF 0? (background here)

* Defense guru's in-game lecture

* LEDs: millions of years old

* Flying flu bots

* Rummy WTF?

* This movie made me cry, more than once

(Big ups: RC)

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Posted by: Jishnu at June 25, 2007 04:44 AM

You think it is some ECM trick that makes the MiG-29 and Su-27 hot? Have you ever wondered why the SR-71, F-14, and Boeings Transonic Cruiser all share a similar layout? Then look at that MiG and Su, and see if you notice any similarities. You can always add new avionics and displays to an airplane. If the design of the airplane sucks, however, rarely can that be fixed, even if you change every part on it (F/A-18E/F). And the MiG-21, it's just little, quick, and plentiful. No secret there.

Posted by: Dfens at November 22, 2005 09:00 PM

@Cernig

I don't care who wrote that "F-15 Tomcat".
It just points out that there was some less-than-well-informed guy involved in the creation fo the story, no matter at which stage.

And for already mentioned political reasons (F22 justification), I don't care a lot about the results at all. Even if the U.S. pilots had lost 1:10 in 1on1, it would not mean much.

Learning about HOW some pilots in modern Suchois defeat western fighters (and F-15/16 aren't new at all, both in their basic design years older than the MiG-29 and Su-27). Learning about so far unknown tactical details would be great.
Some ECM trick, not so obvious engine handling characteristics, probably superior anti-G equipment...whatever. If there are identifiable reasons for superiority or competitiveness that are unknown to the interested public so far, it would be interesting news.

Posted by: Sven Ortmann at November 22, 2005 07:21 PM

The whining about being out numbered just blows me away. Out numbered by fighters costing a fraction of what an F-15 costs, go figure. Here's an intelligence flash for the USAF, we don't have as many fighters as Russia or the Chinese. If you're going to be successful against non-3rd world countries, maybe it's time you quit the whining and got busy figuring out what you're going to do when you are. And as for the whole, "they were just dogging it" thing, I've let people win at racquetball before, but they didn't beat me 21 to 2. Mr. Cernig appropriately brings up that this time Lockmart is very interested in selling F-16s to the IAF, and they are unlikely to attract their business by losing.

As for the idea of building small, cheap, air defense fighters for the USAF, now there's someone who is thinking! As I recall, the USAF didn't do a bang up job protecting either New York or Washington DC from the last air attack (9/11/01). Now that they've closed a whole bunch more bases, I doubt they'll do any better against the next attack. I don't know about you, but I'd feel a lot better knowing my country was defended by a bunch of little planes than by a few of these monuments to the fighter pilot ego.

Posted by: Dfens at November 22, 2005 06:15 PM

I was going to suggest that the USAF grab a few Indian Air Force pilots and find out how they managed to outfly F-15's and F-16's in far less technologically advanced aircraft. My assumption is that we could either adapt those same techniques into something truly devastating in a more advanced aircraft, or use them to justify going in the exact OPPOSITE direction of the F/A-22 and go for cheaper airframes in quantity with better-trained pilots over hugely expensive technological terrors in small numbers.

After browsing this comment thread, though, I like Dfens' suggestion of outsourcing air defense to India better, if only because it's funnier.

Posted by: Edward Liu at November 22, 2005 12:01 PM

I think too much is being made of this. No offense to our Indian allies, but the simple fact that they were better than expected does not mean that their air force is superior to the US'. Even in the excercises against the F-15s, the IAF had the numerical advantage and US jets were handicapped.

Plus, there have been various whispers that the deck was stacked against the US so that Congress would not cut funding for the F-22 ("See, we NEED the new fighter...").

Posted by: Brian at November 22, 2005 12:30 AM

Maybe we should outsource our air defenses to the IAF. We can buy a MiG for the cost of a handful of F-22 parts, and the IAF pilots are better than ours for 1/3 the cost. Looks like a big opportunity to me.

I mean, why not? We've outsourced everything else. We've sold our defense companies to socially acceptable corporate raiders. They are not honest about what they do and they don't sell the companies off quickly like T. Boone Pickens. These guys sell them off slowly, and when they're mostly all gone, they buy other companies or merge with them so they can sell off those assets too. They've almost picked them all clean now. Lockmart and Boeing are huge empty shells swallowing company after company, selling off their assets and looking for more.

Guess who will be left holding the bag?

Posted by: Dfens at November 21, 2005 10:24 PM

Hi Sven,

That wasn't the author (me) - look again, it's a quote from an Indian newspaper. I'm a lot better informed than that and it's a pity you didn't read closely enough to find that out.

Even given that mistake on the part of one paper, the Indian consensus is very clearly that they did very well indeed. The Su30 MKI and the refurbished Mig21 "Bison" (Indian designation)seem to have caught the USAF hopping a couple of times. The biggest eyeopener is the link to a forum by Indian defense wonks, including journalists and pilots, which has lots of juicy detail.

Regards, Cernig @ Newshog

Posted by: Cernig at November 21, 2005 08:39 PM

India 2 : USAF 0 ...

The author is pretty ill-informed, writingabout "F-15 Tomcats" and F-16 being called most superior fighter in the world...

Posted by: Sven Ortmann at November 21, 2005 02:23 PM

Rapid Fire 11/21/05

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