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Posted by: wowpowerleveling at April 14, 2008 08:27 PM

Greg "I can tell you right now i sure as heck dont want to be marching around with the constant fear that if im overheard saying a word or phrase which some computer has been told to recognize as a threat that the next day i'm in jail without due process"

I agree that would be extreme but again you are coming from the point of gov being abusive no benifit of doubt. The system is that if you say that phrase the computer is programed for then you dont go to jail you get a flag and put on the analyst desk (suspition leads to monitoring that leads to evidence then judgement) once you are analized if you are innocent it will show and well if not it will to. If you report a drunk driver the police dont just pull the guy they view then follow then pull then question then drunk test then test blow at station the finanly arrest charge, one step leads to the next its called a process of elimination. When we walk through metal detectors at the air port that is computer monitoring of some type when the alarm rings we dont go to jail or get booted from the plane we step over to the analyst who then makes a manual search and determination. The benifit is everyone doesnt have to be patted down just few letting the analyst concentrate on the problems and of course their will be some false positives thats why we have the analyst. And even if you fail the analyst you are not automaticly arrested you go to the back room were more analyst analize.

The only way for abuse is if the program is purposly abused for non security reason. Like all weapons abuse is always possible if used improperly, like how China uses theirs. Thier is no cases of such abuse and no examples of such. The bottom line is that the NYT's in thier blind hatred of Bush and putting partisan politics above national security has cost us a heavy blow to our security and AQ thanks the NYT's and the LLL's who without regard for those who they are supposed to represent broke a classified programs security. I just hope that the leakers of this are made example of, the leaks have gotten worse and worse to the point of one side leaks then the other side leaks to counter that leak ect... and the losers are the US people who's lives are at stake and our soldgiers locked in battle, its time to enforce our security laws Leaking is illegal and should be procecuted to the fullest R or L.

Posted by: C-Low at December 28, 2005 04:16 PM

I understand where you guys come from, i really do, and i do believe that the Bush adminstration really is in their minds trying to protect us, but the laws and ground-work they are setting up is leaving wide open the door of paranoid rule. The next adminstration or that years down the road has the ground worked paved to declare "subversives" terrorist or threats to the security of a nation. I can tell you right now i sure as heck dont want to be marching around with the constant fear that if im overheard saying a word or phrase which some computer has been told to recognize as a threat that the next day i'm in jail without due process. the first link formed in the chain of fear from your own people is the first link which will bind the nation as it deteriates from the inside. No nation in the history of the world has ever survived when suspision ruled the day. Please consider this when you think it is just cause for the military and security caufers.

Posted by: Greg at December 28, 2005 01:04 PM

Update:: http://nytimes.com/2005/12/28/politics/28legal.html?ei=5094&en=8778e8e441c81c90&hp=&ex=1135746000&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

now we see the new score that the leak and then the breaking of this story has caused.

Democrats= +1 partisan political points
Bush= -1 political point
Terrorist +5 Jihadi points
US civilians-5 defence points

Noah do you still think the NYT's had the US best interest at heart or some other? When this is over the gov will be forced to give up thier tactics in detail so the big winners Terrorist who already today have a huge bump and growing. But we must keep the eye on the real threat Bushitler right?

Posted by: C-Low at December 27, 2005 10:42 PM

who said the NSA were the goog guys?!

Posted by: urright at December 27, 2005 04:13 AM

Algorithems may be more neutral and detached than humans.

So a well constructed algorithem may offer more protection to privacy than a human system. An Algorithem will only deliver what is requested.

The unfortunate publicity on this topic may be looked on by historians as the functional equivalent of revealing the Ultra and Purple decrypts in WW II.

The leaks are an evil action, taken against the interests of our country.

Those responsible should be prosecuted to the max!

Posted by: rich at December 26, 2005 04:52 PM

First of all, the LLL shouldn't worry about their privacy unless they have really gone over to the dark side and are enabling terror and insurgency. Also, Cindy, Mike, Al and Babs shouldn't worry either since they have nothing to say that is of interest to "intelligence" analysts. Beside UBL and Zark and their minions the ones to worry are the French, Italians and Spainards whose use of baksheesh is well known and usually discovered by Echelon as well as the Chinese military who are currently on the primary target list. You learn more about the Norks and Iranians by listening to the French and Chinese chatter.

Posted by: Jack is Back! at December 26, 2005 02:22 PM

So all the hyperventalating was for not. Thier is no real invasion of privacy unless you have either a terrorist patern or key words to get you thrown onto the analyst desk. Imagine that the NSA and Bush are actually trying to procecute a war not just jokey for partisan advantage.

Now I wonder if the LLL's are going to force gov to release the key words and patterns they look for that way the terrrorist know what not to do? Unfortunatley I expect the answer will be yes after all you must always start with the assumption that Bushitler is a chimp that kanives to bring facism to amerika and any military related groups or departements are evil and faciast by default so any actions taken by these above must be seen as guilty until proven innocent of course. Never give the benifit of doubt like maybe we are all americans and should put partisan BS to the side and fight our common enemy as one, save the partisan stuff for later or domestic policies were it belongs. United we stand Divided we fall. May be a cheep one liner but usually the best common sence is.

Posted by: C-Low at December 25, 2005 11:29 AM

Actually the preffered method of comm between splodeydopes is the pre-paid cell phone. Spend fifty bucks cash, talk for 20 mins, and dump it.

Thats why the voice recog is so important. They tap a trunk and run the scans to try and pick up a certain goblin, and then find out who he's talking to.

Posted by: Alpha Sierra Tango at December 24, 2005 10:46 PM

Wouldn't there be three ways to filter. The first (simple) way would be obtaing the caller ID on a call of interest, then using that ID to see if anything more can be learned via full monitoring and tracing back records to see if continued monitoring was warranted. However, a more sophisticated target of interest would likely utilize random phones (pay) with pre-paid calling cards obtained using a phoney name (pun intended). For this guy, caller ID wouldn't be very helpful to track and monitor him. However, voice print technology could sort out the telltale signature (here is where I think NSA has made great strides in technology previously undisclosed, other than the fact that we have OBLs' voice print). The third way is to "pattern" detect as has been pointed out (using tactics, as has been disclosed, such as assistance of telecoms). Clearly, bad guys overseas are using random phones to the extent they use that form of communication. And it's likely bad guys on US soil are also doing so. Thus, it would seem that voice printing is an essential component of this story. FISA is non-operative and warrants can't be obtained if pattern detection and then voice printing need to occur prior to targeted monitoring with a warrant. But once that occurs, I'd guess the filtering is fairly accurate and simple. Note that this then can lead to means to potentially uncover the specific persons involved, whether in the US or overseas. Probably the basic caller ID methodology was useful years ago, but bad guys changed tactics, as reported, and the good guys (NSA) came up with a sophisticated integrated system, albeit more cumbersome, less accurate, and more time consuming than the original ID tactic. P.S. it would be somewhat beyond belief if caller ID wasn't used in the early to mid 90's. Last, I think internet spying is equally advanced. Some might say that internet communications would be done in code to defeat interception using key words and phrases, but it seems more likely that a coded intercept would pop out. So here we have another security problem as open discussions of this "spying" would lead to embeded code communication e.g. second word of 1st sentence is in "code" , third word in second sentence and so forth. Just some reasonable speculation by a retired finance guy.

Posted by: Jim Bunt at December 24, 2005 02:28 PM