Nasty stryker infantry? I guess I'll take that as a compliment. Anyway, it amazes me how you can have undeniable proof in your face and yet you're still blind to the facts. The only reason we have the IBA is because of a buddy buddy contract. (Anyone remember the M4) I don't believe in thinking something is better because my CO tells me it is. Dragon Skin is superior, and look on You Tube if you don't believe me. Anybody who has deployed with the IBA knows how cumbersome and poor it really is. And what pog unit actually uses the shoulder protectors? I'd rather have a plate carrier than an IBA. Every IED been a part of the IBA has been literally blown off. If the army won't buy it for soldiers they should at least lift the ban.

Posted by: Joe at March 17, 2009 08:21 PM

a large interceptor OTV with 2 side enahanced sapi and two large enhanced sapi (front and rear) and the neck protector will weigh a tad bit over 42lbs last time i weighed it. The Dragonskin SOV2000 offering slightly greater protective coverage and offering the same threat level protection but over a larger area will weigh 28lbs. The SOV3000 series weighs around 40lbs but offers even greater protection. Id gladly settle for the SOV2000, especially as pinnacle offer long and short lengths unlike the Interceptor. I am infantry. I fully understand the situations we face and believe the armor debacle to be promoted mainly by the people who have never and will never serve on the front lines.

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Posted by: 弩 at November 14, 2008 08:46 AM

I have been to Iraq and seen the SAPI plates work. Is there something better ?. The bottom line is, SAPI plates work and they work very well. I know many people who are above ground because of these plates; wear them and you'll be fine. Theres a lot of opinions out there based on no experience and a lot of cheap talk.

Posted by: David at July 1, 2008 07:59 AM

i was wondering if dragon skin can stop a .50 from any gun in the world today?? since it can stop alomst every other bullet.....

Posted by: Vince at June 11, 2008 04:28 AM

The Government takes care of the soldiers and high ranking officials. With how they upgrade guns. NEW 6.8 FOR the really good shots with the best training and years out in service. AND for all the youngins that are comming in lets give you.... this shitty ass intercepter vest.... and this shitty m16. m16 sux... take a AK from a dead sand ass caving bitches. Main Fact. US new about the breakthroughs with dragonskin. THE level 5 is CLASSIFIED!!!! look at pinnaclearmor.com top left go to ballistics you'll see level 3-4 stop 7.62 NATO rounds REPETIVLY over and over again getting hit. AND nothing... The army won't give 900$ more to get level 3 dragonskin to every person.

IBA's are as usless as aluminum foil. At least u'd get to blaze before you get shot threw your armor.

God be with you all. Pray for our soldiers.

watch out for juba, dragonskin would wipe him out!!!

Posted by: Dirka Blaze at April 23, 2008 02:12 AM

dragon skin is amazing and could save lives but the government doesn't like the price tag is all.

Posted by: john hanson at April 15, 2008 12:17 PM

i think to sum it all we could not resolve this isue just by argue our asses on it... for me it better if all of us could get together and at onetime test the both armor... but even if the the best armor would be found best, but there is still the politics, most of as knows about it, that some of the big asses there wont lit the best be the besest arnor just because of the cuts the he would be getting frome the companies...

Posted by: kisssmyass at April 6, 2008 12:47 AM

I am currently in Afghanistan right now and I can not stand the current IBA. For one thing I am 6'6" and weigh 200lbs. I wear a medium because the length does not change at all. Pecker protector doesn't protect shit, I don't wear that... I can't drive HMV's or sit in the TC position if I am wearing my side plates. I would glady pay 4-5K for an armor system that incorporates the side protection seamlessly into the rest of the system.
I doubt they will ever make anything that will compliment my height but it would still be nice to have something that conforms to my upper body a little better.
On top of it all, our current armor has limited protection, there are still large gaps in the armor. Why aren't we getting the best protection there is?

Posted by: Stefan Meyers at April 5, 2008 10:11 AM

I have done several tours in iraq both as a civ and US Army. I have not used Dragon Scale in country, but after watching a live demo a few days ago, I was extreamly Impressed. Two full Mags of haji AK 47 from 15-20 yrds away. Not one round go through, they pulled every slug out. I usually dont buy the sales pitch for items, there is a lot of BS, that goes along with non issued military items, non specwar troops always seem to want equipmet that makes them appear different and are quick to speak poorly about issued items.

on this item, I think the message is clear, the extra protection is worth it, I have witnessed to many deaths caused by the smallest of wounds. when the man should have made it home, any extra protection is worth the extra money!

Posted by: Matt at April 3, 2008 02:51 PM

Maybe they should better print "handle with care" on Dragon Skin than false NIJ certifications. lol

Posted by: tj at July 22, 2007 05:16 AM

what I think is funny and frighting at the same time is on the front of the sapi plates it says in big white letters "HANDLE WITH CARE"

Posted by: thisguy at June 16, 2007 08:36 PM

ATTENTION EVERYONE

WATCH NBC NIGHTLY NEWS TONIGHT!!!!!!!
THE WILL DISCUSS THE BODY ARMOR CONTROVERSY.

VISIT WWW.SFTT.ORG FOR THE SPECIFICS

Posted by: Trey D. at May 17, 2007 12:27 PM

We supplied 16 troops with Dragon Skin armor vests who are currently serving in Iraq. Recently we received a call that the commander of this team won't let them wear the protection. I've been doing alot of research and don't understand why this commander won't let them wear over $90,000 worth of life protecting armor. I've contacted General Conways' office 3 times and keep being put on "hold"

Posted by: Yvette at May 14, 2007 03:32 PM

Alright, let's cut the crap. An IBA (Interceptor Ballistic Armor) vest may have weighed 16.4lbs when this whole thing started, but that's not the case anymore. I wear a medium-size vest, and with ESAPI plates, side plates, the neck/throat protectors, and the groin protector, it weighs 31lbs.
Of course, only pussies and pogues wear the neck and groin protectors; and the only reason my unit had to put side plates on, after a year of doing just fine without them, was that some general saw those nasty Stryker Infantry guys running around without them, and ordered our brigade commander to make us wear them. Battlefield politics only hurt one demographic: us grunts.

Posted by: SPC Holmes at April 10, 2007 10:22 PM

I've heard mixed things about Dragon Skin from the guys that I know who've tried it out. About half think the flexibility and side protection is great. The other half hates how it limits their mobility through tight spaces. I don't know how this opinion would be affected now that they're being forced to wear the side-plates when going out... They also say "[the extra flexibility] doesn't matter either when there's 20 pouches attached to it".

My buddy in 10th Mountain found about the same thing as SPC.Brooks with the latest Interceptor system plates they had. The only difference was a single plate took 5 direct hits from an M82/M107 before being useless.

Also, how much weight difference would there be between the full Interceptor system we use now (body, side plates, neck, throat, shoulder pads, crotch, underarm) and a Dragon Skin system covering all those areas? I've only ever seen stats for just the Dragon Skin vest.

Posted by: Ranba Ral at February 17, 2007 03:12 PM

Did any one see Future Weapons on the discovery chanel? They were testing the dragon scale armor. The host shot about 30 rounds of 5.56, 7.62, and 9mm rounds into the vest. Not one thing went through. Then they took the same vest, with dummy in it, and laid it ontop of a live grenade. Then the detonated the grenade. Now the vest was destroyed, but no kidding, it took the blast. No shrapnel penitrated it. You can bet on my next tour I'll be wearing dragon scale armor.

Posted by: Rick Ingavo at February 6, 2007 06:40 AM

I heard a rumor that there is dragonskin boots. Can anyone confirm this? Can you bring your own body armour to Iraq? I have heard yes and no.

Posted by: b.h. at February 4, 2007 11:27 PM

What no one is talking a about is Dragon Scale's ablity to reduce blunt force for rounds take don't get through. My father was a police-man when light body armor was invented. He was shot twice, vest worked both times, but blunt force wounds the size of dinner plates where he was shot. Dragon Scale's design transfers blunt shock across the whole vest, making it more possible to get back in the fight.

Posted by: Jake at February 1, 2007 02:06 PM

Todays body armor in use is completely a joke. Albeit, I am not a soldier, have never been a soldier, and WILL NEVER be a soldier. I am not a violent individual whatsoever. With that in mind you can imagine the horror I go through everytime I watch the news and see more people killed.(regardless of who they are) I run a composite business that deals with carbon fiber, kevlar, and other ground-breaking polymers and composite fabrics. I have my pieces waterjet cut as does the military. My waterjet cutting shop cuts pallet's of dyneema daily.

They showed me a small piece used for testing by the military, It had FMJ AK47 Slugs shot from apx 15 ft., they only penetrated one quarter of the material - 1/2 inch thick, only went through 1/8th of an inch. It also had a Tungsten-tipped armor piercing .50 cal sniper rifle round that stopped 1/3 of the way through it with 2/3rds still intact. The piece stays together throughout the firing (about one sq. ft had 8-21 shells still in the material.) They gave me a small piece worth about $400 and said have fun. I took the piece to Sunny New Mexico where american's still have freedoms, one of which is owning and legally shooting an AK-47. I took out a 40Cal Handgun with god knows what kind of shells. (It was a friend of a family member's gun) I also shot the living heck out of it with an ak-47 POINT BLANK. I actually shot the corner once. The slug mushroomed out and lodged in the plastic dyneema only going through about 1/4 of the material. IT IS AMAZING MATERIAL AND IT TAKES ALOT TO IMPRESS ME WITH PHYSICAL PROPERTIES.

Honest to god I had even considered HOLDING THE PIECE IN MY BARE HANDS AND HAVING MY FRIEND SHOOT IT. (He's a good shot but still I'm no fool) but the material works SO WELL I would feel safe with ONLY THAT MATERIAL TO PROTECT ME.

I also made me own (Nasa-quality procedures) ballistic kevlar panels 14layers(1/4 inch) and 28 layers thick(1/2 Inch) and shot them with .22's and the AK-47. I actually took notes of grain weight,etc. but I'm not at home right now.

These panels made of Dyneema could SUBSTANTIALLY reduce casualties and/or injuries. You could even take a .50 cal round, try to stand back up and fire like the dickens back at the oppressing force.

The first thing I said after verifying the strength with my own strict guidelines and seeing it with my own eye's was "I would so fly over a war zone with this protecting me"

In theory it should work even better than the a-10 warthog Titanium cockpit tub.

Ohh yeah and the military is going to be using this stuff, but it panicks me inside because I don't know when, but I know this stuff far exceeds steel plating 3-inches thick or greater.

If the military see's this. I can help. contact me, also if you have any question's maybe I can help.

dustin.still@unhook.net

Posted by: Dustin Still at January 25, 2007 07:39 PM

Say you're driving along on Active duty but you are assign light treat duty but a you are driving a bomb or a group of insergents ambush you. Do you have time to add your extra plating no! I put my money on dragon skin

Posted by: Mario at January 23, 2007 01:20 AM

give me a split screen demo of intersepter & dragon skin in action then well talk, i dont know about you but my life is worth a $5000 investment

Posted by: jesse at January 21, 2007 11:22 PM

I shot a sapi plate 8 times at 20 meters with a smith and wesson 500. It's a 50 cal. Not a singe round penetrated the Plate even on glancing shots to the side of it. At most it would penetrate the carbon like layer. Then peirce through 2 very thin weavings of either kevlar or nylon. The plate is a good system but it needs to get thinner and lighter.

Posted by: SPC.Brooks at October 9, 2006 07:05 PM

I was in Iraq for over ten months with an IBA and that thing is pitiful in all respects. A number of my friends iether died or were severely injured while wearing that useless thing. I actually weighed mine while there and it weighed over 40lbs. with both sapi plates and no shoulder pads or groin pads. This was the weight without my ammo and water atached to it and of course it's non-flexible and almost if not more than 2 inches thick. Most people will tell you horror stories about trying to fit in small places wearing that peice of garbage.

Posted by: James at September 11, 2006 11:39 PM

A standard IBA with two plates weighs 16.4 lbs, but with the shoulder coverage, side plates, and the "new" sapi plates that go in front and back weighs about 32 pounds. So I think the that with full coverage besides the shoulder pads that the SOV Dragon Skin will be well worth it. And as far as the price goes I would think that the goverment would rather spend the 4+ grand on a vest that will save lives, then spend the 400,000 on the life insurance for each soldier that dies.

Posted by: Robert Altrich at May 24, 2006 03:31 PM

I've actually worn the interceptor vest in my tour of Iraq and found rediculously cumbersome. I weigh about 165(& stand about 5'11") and with that armor on I had to suck my gut just to get in and out of our Humvee. On top of that our Scouts reported that after 1-2 hits their SAPI plates were rendered useless. And if you fell on them dodging indirect fire?

I went to the Pinnacle web site and read up on the item, as well as watched the video. I have to say that I hate any demonstration video that has cuts in it, but if the body armor performs that well after so many hits, and has flexibility to boot, then I'm sold.

My only complaint is where is all the so called negative feedback? I haven't seen any documentation (other than the weight and price complaints). This is also a serious issue. If there doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it, that does not mean that there isn't. If I were producing armor I would approach any item with the mindset that there is a hidden flaw waiting to be exploited and not just say 'Hey, look at this isn't it great?'.

Posted by: Blessed Wanderer at April 6, 2006 12:00 PM

SGLI pays REGARDLESS OF CAUSE OF DEATH. Suicide, murder, war, motorcycle racing...

Any commander who says otherwise is a liar or an incompetent.

Posted by: Mike at April 2, 2006 12:22 AM

It's not all pure weight, either. There's also distribution. Anyone who has worn a good modern backpack vs. an older model knows how much difference that can make. Body armor is no different.

I'll note here that Pinnacle's Dragon Skin SOV armor's flexibility helps with weight distribution, and also has better stopping power to go with its better coverage. Some really impressive tests, especially against multiple hits in a small area. Full ceramic plate inserts like the OTV's can crack or even shatter under those conditions.

I'll also note that Dragon skin armor is [a] about $5,000 per rather than $1,100 per for Interceptor; and [b] has a design that relies on integrated manufacturing, rather than being able to split the vest and plates and assemble them/ swap them/ replace them in the field. A. has effects on overall cost (multiply by about 500,000), while B. affects how fast production can be scaled up.

Recall the "porn inserts" comment in another post, Noah... is it better to issue a smaller number of the best vests to fewer troops, or issue "pretty good" protection to everyone fast?

That has been part of the dilemma here.

I'm actually working on a "bring it all together" post covering this topic. Noah, if you could nail down the relative weight issue of Interceptor OTV with standard SAPI plate inserts (i.e. not the shoulder & side inserts) vs. comparable Dragon Scale SOV (and then with standard ESAPI plates), I'd be much obliged.

Posted by: Joe Katzman at January 18, 2006 11:58 AM

Also ignored is the fact that Dragon Scale armor provides much better coverage than the plates used. Everyone complains now about the poor side and shoulder protection, while pinnacle armor has been selling full torso Class III armor, not limited area inserts. More likely someone that is not getting rich enough off of DOD contracts and interceptor amror is probably behind this.

Posted by: Chris Wo at January 17, 2006 10:48 PM

The Interceptor weights ~8.4 lbs without the ceramic plates in the front and back. Each plate weights ~4 lbs.

Posted by: J.C. at January 17, 2006 03:39 PM

I don't think so. The Interceptor weights 16.4 lbs last time I checked, and the SOV weighs a maximum of 18.5 lbs. A small weight increase (probably because there are sections of the scales that overlap and are thus double thickness, whereas a SAPI plate has even thickness everywhere), but I would imagine the flexibility would make up for it.

Posted by: Stefan Moluf at January 17, 2006 02:09 PM