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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Air Force Plan: Hack Your Nervous System

This is the first of a two-part series on plasma and electromagnetic weapons by David Hambling, author of Weapons Grade: How Modern Warfare Gave Birth to Our High-Tech World.

The brain has always been a battlefield. New weapons might be able to hack directly into your nervous system.

"Controlled Effects" (see image, right) is one of the Air Force’s ambitious long-term challenges. It starts with better and more accurate bombs, but moves on to discuss devices that "make selected adversaries think or act according to our needs... By studying and modeling the human brain and nervous system, the ability to mentally influence or confuse personnel is also possible."

LTChallenge-08-IMG2.JPGThe first stage is technology to “remotely create physical sensations.” They give the example of the Active Denial System "people zapper" which uses a high-frequency radiation similar to microwaves as a non-lethal means of crowd control.

Other weapons can affect the nervous system directly. The Pulsed Energy Projectile fires a short intense pulse of laser energy. This vaporizes the outer layer of the target, creating a rapidly-expanding expanding ball of plasma. At different power levels, those expanding plasmas could deliver a harmless warning, stun the target, or disable them - all with pinpoint laser precision from a mile away.

Early reports on the effects of PEPs mentioned temporary paralysis, then thought to be related to ultrasonic shockwaves. It later became apparent that the electromagnetic pulse caused by the expanding plasma was triggering nerve cells.

Details of this emerged in a heavily-censored document released to Ed Hammond of the Sunshine Project under the Freedom if Information Act. Called “Sensory consequence of electromagnetic pulsed emitted by laser induced plasmas,” it described research on activating the nerve cells responsible for sensing unpleasant stimuli: heat, damage, pressure, cold. By selectively stimulating a particular nociceptor, a finely tuned PEP might sensations of say, being burned, frozen or dipped in acid -- all without doing the slightest actual harm.

The skin is the easiest target for such stimulation. But, in principle, any sensory nerves could be triggered. The Controlled Effects document suggests “it may be possible to create synthetic images…to confuse an individual' s visual sense or, in a similar manner, confuse his senses of sound, taste, touch, or smell.”

In other words, it may be possible to use electromagnetic means to create overwhelming 'sound' or 'light', or indeed 'intolerable smell' which would exist only in the brain of the person perceiving them.

There is another side as well. The “sensory consequences” document also notes that the nervous system which controls muscles could be influenced to cause what they call “Taser-like motor effects.” The stun gun’s ability to shock the muscles into malfunction is relatively crude; we might now be looking at are much more targeted effects.

Tomorrow: Moscow moves in. Remote-controlled heart attacks, anyone?

-- David Hambling

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with underdeveloped minds.The companies that actually develop these obviously not well thought out designs are in my opinion just as guilty as the felons directing these energy weapons at innocent women,men,boys and girls.Fear has caused the cowards to want to develop these weapons and to torture and torment the unsuspecting human being because when one is fearful there is no sense of pride.Self confidence is non existant.Peaceful knowledge eludes them.Common sense and common decency failed them.Now in the search of self control the powers that be had to try and get into the minds of those who all ready have co-existing with the universe down pat.These weapons are just a nother tool in Lucifers tool box.No weapon formed against me shall prosper.Walk by faith not by sight.Praise God Anyway.

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I believe this article was written in 2006.This is now 2008.The developement of these weapons have ALL READY been perfected. Torture has all ready been perfected.I am a non volunteer receiver of this weapons torture directed by perps
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Those who have all the power and wealth today, could care less about the average citizen. The only use we are to them, is to work in their grist mills making them ever more wealthy. Thats it...
IT IS TIME TO REVOLT!

Einstien said; "I do not know what weapons will be used in WWW 3, but I can tell you what be used in WWW 4; sticks and stones!"

Posted by: Teutonic Warrior at December 11, 2007 08:45 PM


STOP BIO-PSYCHOTRONIC WEAPONS TORTURE BRAINMIND/BODY CONTROLANNIHILATION ORGANIZED STALKING/TERROR SLAVERY ASSASSINATION!!!

Dear Sir, Madam, :

A Message For You, April 09, 2000, Part 3: MICROWAVE MIND CONTROL: MODERN TORTURE AND CONTROL MECHANISMS ELIMINATING HUMAN RIGHTSAND PRIVACY, by Dr. Rauni Leena Kilde, MD, October 23, 1999:

http://www.prophecies.org/Messages/april09c.htm

Christians Against Mental Slavery:

http://www.slavery.org.uk/news.htm

Psychotronic Mind ControlANNIHILATION Weapons:

http://freedomfchs.com/ffchsmessages/viewtopic.php?t=563

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6205

http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/blog/5286

http://mindjustice.org/index.htm

http://www.raven1.net/ravindex.htm

Resources / Other Sites :

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/resrc-hm.htm

Yours sincerely.

Posted by: Anatolij at August 9, 2007 05:39 AM


STOP BIO-PSYCHOTRONIC WEAPONS TORTURE
BRAINMIND CONTROLANNIHILATION SLAVERY ASSASSINATION!!!


Dear Sir, Madam, :

Civil EFFECTS: TORTURE … ASSASSINATION :

“What are the symptoms?”:

http://www.eharassment.ca/index.htm
--- ---

“List of mind control symptoms,
whether the related technology is scientifically proven
and if there is military interest
or funding of the related technology
by Cheryl Welsh, March, 2003”:

http://mindjustice.org/symptoms.htm
--- ---
“What do victims experience?”:

http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca/

“ Technological harassment can include: “:
http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca/

--- ---


“How it affects (Physical & psycho-physical damages): “:

http://www.angelfire.com/pro2/dchakrab/cherkova_sum.htm

--- ---

“ALPHABETICAL Index to Articles”: …
“Symptom list, body image format”:

http://www.raven1.net/ravindex.htm

--- ---

“Psycho-Electronic Weapon (Mind Control Weapon)Effects”:
http://soleilmavis.googlepages.com/wehelpvictim
--- ---

“Effecten van Psychotronica _ Effects of Psychotronics”:

http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/bericht/90275

“Violation of Humanrights with Psychotronics or Bioelectronics Most common ELF effects”:

http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/bericht/90275

“Symptoms of Electromagnetic Torture: “:

http://www.volkskrantblog.nl/bericht/99259

--- --- --- ---

“Microwave Bioeffect Congruence With Schizophrenia”:

http://omega.twoday.net/stories/2941540/

“MICROWAVE BIOEFFECT CONGRUENCE WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA

John J. McMurtrey”:

http://www.buergerwelle.de/pdf/microwave_congruence_schizophrenia.pdf


--- ---

Carole Smith:
“On the Need for New Criteria of Diagnosis of Psychosis in the Light of Mind Invasive Technology”:

http://www.raven1.net/newcriteria.html

http://www.btinternet.com/~psycho_social/Vol3/JPSS-CS2.html

http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/NewCrit-JPSS-CS2.htm

--- ---

“Mr. Williams
2004-09-23
On the Need for New Criteria of Diagnosis of Psychosis... “:
http://www.pahealthsystems.com/archive240-2004-9-109312.html

--- ---

John J. McMurtrey”:
“MICROWAVE BIOEFFECT CONGRUENCE WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA”:

http://www.buergerwelle.de/body_science.html

http://whale.to/b/mcmurtrey.html

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt200304/jtselect/jtment/1127/1127se15.htm

--- --- ---

Quote: “Electronic Assassination
By Michele Moore
November 23, 2005

Quote:”...A beam of the right electro magnetic energy aimed directly at your skull kills cleanly, secretly, silently and without a trace. ...

...A sense of malaise and then a sudden, stabbing headache may be the last things you remember. ...

...Your bones will ache and your skin will itch, your face will wither and your eyes sink, swollen and blood shot. …”:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3810

Yours sincerely.

Posted by: Anatolij at February 24, 2007 12:27 PM


Does anyone else think that 'nukem's' comments are pathetic and pointless. I presume that 'nukem' is a dumb A-merican.
Nice attitude mate.

Posted by: Karma at January 14, 2007 06:28 PM


WTF! You guys and gals never heard of tuskeegee OK and the siphilus experiment on vets? A friend of mine served in navy in the '50s
and the gov brainiacs sent 50,000 sailors out to watch A bombs go. The 3000 that survived are called Atomic Vets and get special comps and meds.
The Depleted Uranium issue was on the cover of Time Magazine a couple years ago. BTW most of this microwave and beam tech stuff is easily defeated with light weight metal shields and body insulation. I understand the body piercing guys will be looking at their jewelry red hot and laying on the ground if hit with the microwave stuff.
Aluminum foil hats anyone?
P.S. Don't be too hard on the scientist as the talented ones get nabbed addicted to substances.
Withdrawal results in death. Work or Die!!

Posted by: Freddy Fender at January 11, 2007 11:25 PM


What a great weapon. :)
Lets use it to make the A-Rabs eat shit and die !!

Posted by: nukem at January 3, 2007 02:19 AM


Benjamin J Brown (and ALL others) for much more on this technology check

http://360.yahoo.com/etisoppa

Posted by: Etisoppa at December 10, 2006 08:52 PM


What a great weapon. :)
Lets use it to make the A-Rabs eat shit and die !!

Posted by: nukem at December 6, 2006 05:04 AM


The real brainwashing that's being done to men is the forced removal of their hair,with
scissors,and razors thus effeminizing,and weakening them.
In the picture of the jewish musicians,you will note they all have beards,long beards.
have you ever wondered why men have to "shave" their faces,and thus loook like women?
Does it have anything to do with the absurd notion that men,and women are equal.
We can't give the whole Hairological
theory away here,or you little bastards will take
it,and steal our thunder.
Know this though,the hair growing on the
entire surface of the body can if properly adjusted,make one physically stronger,lower their
heart rate,lengthen their lives,and if necessary
make them a vicious fighting man.

Don't believe me?

Try a simple experiment for youself...

If you have high blood pressure,are scared,and jumpy,get pushed around by your boss,
wife,kids etc. ,and you are continuously scraping
the hair off your face with a razor,and cutting your scalp hair with scissors,Try letting the hair
grow for a two month period.

You will find an added vigour strength ,precision of thought ,and physical stamina,you never thought possible.

It (hair) is apart of the human anatomy
which has been completely overlooked,this will all
change very soon,there will be a president of the United States witin 10 or 15 years,perhaps longer
who will have a beard as Abe Lincoln did,and
Ulessys S. Grant.
Ever noticed old pictures of "god"or Zeus,or the "prophets" all had beards,and long scalp hair? Why are men now forced to remove one
of the main distinguishing characteristics that
differentiates them from women?

Soon this wil be comon accepted knowledge,one does hope that I the world's first and greatest hairologist get the fame and fortune I deserve

Joseph brauner Hairologist

Posted by: Joseph Brauner at December 4, 2006 09:34 PM


What a great weapon. :)
Lets use it to make the A-Rabs eat shit and die !!

Posted by: nukem at October 1, 2006 10:14 AM


"Cowards"

cadaf

COWARDS
HBERAOB
GAAARBA
Od
N
E i
u

Ciphers:

"Crowe/Nash for Grants Pass unit fib"

Posted by: Benjamin J. Brown at September 24, 2006 05:54 PM


Furthur extrapolation:

"Crowe/Nash for Grants Pass/United Nations ID entity the 620 fib"

I live at 620 M st, my parents at 620 Dean and the cable company at 620 Rogue River Hwy. The secret science freaks of clandestine Grants Pass are having a field day zapping me and editing and dubbing the media. I am watching NFL and the science sickos have their version of the "two-minute" warning...they delay and edit and synchronize it to harass subliminally. Whether at home or in a bar, it doesn't matter. These analists are holding an entire population in quasi-prison and developing memenic weapons while Bush, the congress and the military do nothing.

A shameful and shocking disgrace to say the least.

Posted by: Benjamin J. Brown at September 24, 2006 05:37 PM


kom naar druftz en laat je zenuwen gruwelen

Posted by: dotwood at August 24, 2006 03:05 PM


Mind and nervous system hacking is great if it is used on the "other side" or bad guys. But if it gets used on YOU then it becomes collateral damage or collateral losses or maybe even an experiment gone wrong? Sounds like a win-win situation for Somebody, eh?

Posted by: peabrain at August 15, 2006 03:13 PM


What a great weapon. :)
Lets use it to make the A-Rabs eat shit and die !!

Posted by: nukem at August 14, 2006 08:22 PM


To DP, posted 8-13-06. You have posted a comprehensive and eloquent discussion on the problems of controlling our country's masses. I agree with much of what you say. I do believe you miss the purpose of a humane weapon. It is not to control our own people.

There are radicals trained from childhood to "kill infidels". It would be wonderful to educate them to their folly. But when they are coming at you in a hi-jacked plane to commit suicide and incur mass death on our population, it is too late to offer them a good book that might change the views toward us.

Larry

Posted by: Larry at August 14, 2006 02:44 PM


To DP, posted 8-13-06. You have posted a comprehensive and eloquent discussion on the problems of controlling our country's masses. I agree with much of what you say. I do believe you miss the purpose of a humane weapon. It is not to control our own people.

There are radicals trained from childhood to "kill infidels". It would be wonderful to educate them to their folly. But when they are coming at you in a hi-jacked plane to commit suicide and incur mass death on our population, it is too late to offer them a good book that might change the views toward us.

Larry

Posted by: Larry at August 14, 2006 02:42 PM


It would be wrong to employ weoponry devices to control honest men or employ weaponry against beings who have a high causality level and who have the power to self-regulate which includes most of man. The bullying of others for ones own financial benefit is wrong. more time and money needs to be spent on the humanity of conflict resolution which is a lot less invasive and doesn't allow a criminal entity to take power of such scientific marvels to enslave man. man is basically good and men living under higher toned governments with a sophisticated human technology protect its citizens, this technology is used to raise the causality, rationality, knowledge, responsibility and control of its citizens. It also teaches one how to apply ethics to ones life lessening the need for punitiveness measures. People of this type of society would be more inclined to use a more rational decision making paradigm that included more than there own survival - it would also include the survival of the environment,groups,mankind,environment, etc..
The whole premise that a small group of individuals can run the lives of billions is not sound. It is the individuals that cause a society to function and not the group. any society in which a few attempt to apply bad control to the masses under the idea that the masses need to be controlled is in essence a foretelling that that society is about to go by the boards. the group can never make an individual causative with bullying, imprisonment and weaponry - it just won't happen - it is impossible. I have the idea that this has been the ruin of numerous other civilizations and planets. It is a strategy that is doomed to failure. The only societies which do not suppress the consituents and primarily democratic in origin where the individual been educated in a human technology which doens't neccessarily cause them to do everything someone says, but rather is used to increase the individuals ability to contribute to society. Anyone who would put the citizens of their planet in concentration camps so they can have a temporary feeling of safety at night is committing a high crime against his fellow beings and it only serves to illustrates his ignorance of the nature of a sentient being and reveals his high level of insecurity. it is only by truly knowing his fellow being and by being able to teach his fellows a humanitarian technology that increases the rationality, beingness and causality of his fellows that can there truly be a safer environment.
You see longterm security doesn't arrive due to the sacrifice the basic rights of a planets citizens. Lets take an individual who resorted to crime because they did not know how to read. So teach him how to read. This subject of Psychology prevalent on Earth today teaches that IQ is fixed. If you had a co-worker that when you asked him to do something and every response you got from them was that that would be impossible, you would probably go to someone else if you were a person who actually wanted to get something done. The idea that one can't be raised up to be more causitive, have more intelligence, have more knowledge that would raise their responsibility and control (good control) over their own life is just a barrier This barrier then prevalent in all thought would lead one to believe that the citizens of earth could not be raised to higher levels of rationality and so seemingly justifying the harmful act of mass herding of innocents, mind control and other harmful negative control by those who don't know any better and have not cognited on the true way to bring its citizens to a higher more productive state of consciousness.

Posted by: dp at August 13, 2006 03:21 PM


During the Mid-Tribulation Period, the Satanic European Dictator & the Jewish Dictator will use a Technically Advanded Military Aircraft to send Fire/or Lazor Beam to the Earth with pin point accuracy--(Revelation 13:13-14). This Technology will be to prove his Military Might--"who is able to make war with him"--(Revelation 13:4).
After gaining the confidence of the Gentles & Jews, his Image will be placed in the Jewish Temple for the Jewish People to Worship, that he may Blaspheme God--(Revelation 13:5-6).
Because of the Famine that will be taking place at this time, the Satanic European Dictator will cause all those to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead, in order to ration the food. No one will be able to Buy or Sell without this Mark--(Revelation 13:16-17). Like Hitler, he will attempt to Eliminate the Jews, so that Jesus Christ will not be able to return to a Believing Segment of Jews to set up His Millennial/or 1000 Year Reign--(Revelation 20:4-7).

Posted by: Charles Slobogian at August 10, 2006 07:52 AM


Obviously theres nothing we can do to stop progress, no matter how evil. And I see no way to be secure from this stuff. So what do you do? I've thught of it for several years. Leave the system. Sounds funny but take the Amish as your example.

Little,two room cottage with R60 insulation. Couple acres of land. Freeze your food for the winter.

Sure I still plan to have my wide screen television and all the rest of the goodies, but really, you don't need more than a hundred bucks a week to live this way and that means you're out of the city and posing no threat to them, therefore the least likely to be targeted. A minumum wage job is like $240 a week. More than enough.

There's even icing on the cake. At that wage, you're doing just fine, and paying almost no taxes, so you can know you're not financing them, a true, freedom loving, American. A passive anarchist.

It's a lifestyle choice. Yes, you can still afford a three week vacation to Europe, but it's a bike/hiking trip, no hotels.

There's another choice too but I'm not interested.

Peace

Posted by: Paul at August 9, 2006 08:54 PM


baaaaaaaaaa!!!!!..get in line...baaaaa!!!

Posted by: peabrain at August 9, 2006 05:49 PM


if they are releasing reports on this type of technology it can be guaranteed that they already have it in full working order and that the so called experimental stage has been over for a long time.
people can say this is all X files, but what do you think the black budget was created for?

Posted by: aj at August 9, 2006 03:27 PM


If this is a necessary security against the threat of invasion on "American" soil, why don't we just take it to the ultimate level of implanting devices into infants at birth for total control of thoughts & actions? I'm sure the feds could come up with some well meaning missionaries & billions of donated American dollars for worldwide implanting.

Posted by: Samantha at August 9, 2006 02:33 PM


http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id48.html

http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id1.html

Posted by: john mccarthy at August 9, 2006 02:04 PM


To develop such weapons is tempting rogue elements to play at mind control. The problem in the US is the disconnect between the people's common sense and the spoiled children of elite estate who scheme a Frankenstein in private. The revolving door of post-military Franken-servants will try to use such weapons---anything for more power, money and INDULGENCE! The solution? International law. It doesn't have to negate democracy. Instead, it can defuse stupid wars before they happen. The US spends more on defense than all other nations combined. It's a fatal contradiction, not inspired democracy.

Posted by: George L. at August 9, 2006 01:31 PM


This technology will for for us, and can unfortunately, against us. Military history has proven that those without the toys simply lose. We need those toys, if we are to persevere in a future battle with forces equipped with hi tech weapons as well. No one likes war, but mankind seems to quickly forget how freedom is won in the first place.

Posted by: DaveO at August 9, 2006 01:13 PM


This is too easy to use. It will be overused and abused. The politians setting policy on its use are not trustworthy.

Posted by: Kara at August 9, 2006 01:00 PM


didnt eaven read it so fare but this is somme stupide sutff there trying to throw at us ,aal these tech stff exicted loong before . and its aal abot "monarchy and heirachi" crouwd control when do we get popultation control , nowe thats an existing word .. pff

Posted by: floris at August 9, 2006 12:59 PM


Am I the only one that thinks this is a good thing? I mean, granted, it could be used as torture, but so could a lot of good things that came out of the twentieth century. When it first came out, many people believed that the mircrowave could seriously damage your body because it was a form of technology that they had never seen before. In the new weapons case, isn't it better to stun a person or cause him some discomfort than to kill that person?
Think about it: What if a group of American soldiers was cornered in a building by a group of Iraqi terrorists? The example of using this weapon to create a blinding light only in the mind of the beholder could allow the soldiers to simply fire the weapon around every corner, and easily run right out. There's always going to be a downside and an upside to any invention. Be an optimist!

Posted by: Evan at August 9, 2006 12:06 PM


Imagine what'll happen when this technology goes mainstream. Hang on to your wallets.

Posted by: Chuck at August 9, 2006 11:48 AM


Am I the only one commenting that see this different. Of course any weapons can be used wrongly by the wrong people. Forget about the specific weapon, what do you conspiracy theorists propose to do about terrorists? Do you think 911 was one man's vendetta? Open your history books and study the last 1400 years. This is WWIII. Again, I ask what would you do?

Posted by: Larry at August 9, 2006 11:24 AM


If the U.S gov. can decieve the american people about Kenndy, 911, mans walk on the moon, ufos,the so called drug war, ect, the list goes on and on, you can bet your sweet ass, they are using this new tech on there own people?????? been depressed lately??

Posted by: mark at August 9, 2006 10:46 AM


This is so offensive to me. Setting aside the horrible mass torture aspect of it, the assumption is that crowds need to be dispersed. What if this was used on Martin Luther King and his crowds who were marching for their basic civil rights? Or the women suffragettes who marched for their right to vote? Or the union members who marched to give us health benefits, workplace safety and an end to child labor? The fact is, if you look throughout human history, most of the time it was the people marching who were in the right, and those physically attacking them were in the wrong. Look at what's happening in Mexico City right now. The declared loser of the presidential election is claiming that there was massive electoral fraud and that he actually won. So his supporters are staging a sit-in of over one million people, demanding a vote recount. Ask yourself--should it be resolved through discussion, diplomacy, compromise and the other nuances of democracy? Or should the "winner" just roll out his own "active denial systems" and fry his opponents like a common thug? Sounds like the tactic of a dictator to me. This is so WRONG to give a weapon like this to those already in power. This only further solidifies the power of the evil men who are already in power.

Posted by: Stever at August 9, 2006 09:57 AM


I just read the August 9 comments. Don't you realize that unlike Americans, there are millions of people in the world brainwashed since birth to kill infidels? Wouldn't a more humane way to protect ourself make sense. Do you hear the stated objectives of the Islamofascists? What are you thinking?

Posted by: Larry at August 9, 2006 09:27 AM


Of all the bright minds we have and money, this is what we spend it on? Why not find a cure for AIDS... Wait they may have done that already.... Well then, why don't they feed the poor instead of toys for war

Posted by: This is Terrible at August 9, 2006 09:16 AM


I am one that they have been experimenting on. I also found another person in my area that is having the same experiences that I am having.

Posted by: Patricia Morreale at August 9, 2006 07:44 AM


does anyone ever wonder WHY there is such a devotion to controlling other people? or to what end?

Posted by: owen at August 9, 2006 02:50 AM


boom! bap! zing! zap!....oops...too late folks. My brain has already been hacked, zapped and zinged. Booming and bapping comes from too much exposure to media. Because of the hacking my mind has become less than airtight and when the wind blows I find myself at a loss. Y'all better get used to mind hacking because the war on terror has been extended to include the average American citizen. So when you see a recruitment poster of Uncle Sam pointing at you saying "I want you"....just think to yourself these comforting thoughts: You all have more to offer than any other generation. Next thing we will hear about are the soul hackers. With mind hacking who needs the 20th century brain washing techniques. Sheeps walking around in human bodies?

Posted by: peabrain at August 9, 2006 12:02 AM


On reading comments posted by Americans, on must always remember that Yankees are, and have always been, as dumb as they come. ;)

Posted by: biggerbrain at August 8, 2006 11:33 PM


A device has been shocking me in the genital area, feet and eyes. I've done research and a microwave device/ or weapon in the area is targeting me with some sophisticated infra red devices. How is someone to know where to target just certain areas of the body? I live near LAX and near many aerospace companies.

Posted by: Linda A. at August 6, 2006 11:22 PM


Here is a Pi code off a primer I developed from the "Rogue Valley"

cadf

WEATHER
EARLGAA
ARAEDRR
Od
N
E i
U

Non-redundant letters: CDFPWTHRLGAEIOU

Now get your scrabble boards and start with "GP" (Grants Pass) and see how many phrases, together with acronyms, you can develop. The results are provocative and revealing as to the nature of clandestine Grants Pass where the motto is "It's The Climate!"

Note: "AL" = 112 (A=1, B=2 and so forth). S+U+B+L+I+M+I+N+A+L= 112

Posted by: Benjamin J. Brown at July 26, 2006 02:02 PM


How would this weapon, if employed on crowds, keep from popping someones eye-balls or killing a small adult?

Posted by: Ray at July 25, 2006 01:09 PM


Ive had microwave weapons and voice to skull weapons used on me and my 14 yr old son by a local Tigard police officer & his helpers.The voice to skull forces you to say anddo things against a person's judgement sometimes, and is used to harass,terorize, discredit us.The voice to skull are also used in my court proceedings on the judge, me, and others to make it harder for me to get my son returned to me.The cop's lover is after my mom's money& lied to DHS abt me.

Posted by: kathy smith at June 1, 2006 03:18 PM


The majority of comments made on this post vindicates my view that the entire United States of America should be declared one big psychiatric ward. There's something very, very wrong with you lot!

Posted by: Steve at May 13, 2006 07:29 PM


It would be very sensible for the government to develop technologies to recover people who have had their minds hacked. Have they not yet done this?

Posted by: Deniz at May 6, 2006 02:34 PM


PEPs: What is meant by "outer layer of the target"? Is this the outer layer of a person ie. their skin? Or is it the outer layer of a vehicle or building? This is an interesting site for thew technology news and the freewheeling comments.

Posted by: Gregory Ryder at May 6, 2006 02:48 AM


We need to hack into people's nervous systems because the OSI, ONI, DIA, NSA, CIA and the Feds are a bunch of Jackasses and Pussys. They spy on Americans but
remember what they are, they are Fat, Stupid, But kissing, Ugly, Lazy, Government and Military workers who are underpaid, overworked and understaffed. They watched Walker, Ames, Hanson and Pollard and barely caught them! These people could not catch a cold and my taxes are paying their salaries, ouch! My trust is in God not in these fools! PS Where is Usama? J Edgar Trannies.


Posted by: Jaye at April 9, 2006 08:38 PM


There are about 500 U.S. citizens complaining of being victims of this type of technology. They state they are subjected to specific abnormal pain in certain parts of their bodies and that they experience abnormal mood swings. These Americans have led otherwise productive lives and are mostly middle class. They say their lives were stopped after being afflicted by this technology.

Doctors can not diagnose the problem and quickly rule it out as paranoid schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. This is even when there has been no previous sign of a mental disorder. Through research and communicating with each other it seems experiments by employees of CIA, DoD and/or government contactors can not be ruled out. During the early mind control and radiation experiments the CIA and DoD made sure anyone that stated they were a victim of an experiment was termed crazy. Now, those victims do not seem so crazy. Why would they change their modus operandi now? There is no evidence yet to prove it is the CIA or DoD but who knows, maybe they will paint themselves in a corner like the radiation and mind control experiments.

Posted by: Kim at April 3, 2006 02:11 PM


I believe the US Navy is targeting people in the Garland, Texas area for their mind control experiments. I believe that they are also using homeless people in the Dallas Texas area. They are also using Green Oaks Psychiatric Hospital in Dallas Texas. They are using people without their consent and causing much damage. I believe I am a victim. They use electricity and chemical gases on you at Green Oaks, and it causes your skin to burn. I knew this had to be some kind of experiment vs. treatment. Please help if you can!

Jerri Dietz

Posted by: Jerri Lynne Dietz at April 1, 2006 09:48 PM


The best combination of Hi and Low tech is the modern day UFO manmade and designed in the late 1800s by Nicola Tesla but updated with technology i.e. computers and lasers etc. etc. check this out
http://members.tripod.com/~lyne4lyne/ It's too cool! The Nazis were evil and cruel but they did perfect the modern day Flying Disk AKA the Tesla Disk, Aerospace Medicine, ICBMs, Jet Fighters, Giant Cannons, Synthetic Oil and a whole lot of other black projects and programs, black even today! Peace. Jaye

Posted by: Jaye at March 14, 2006 02:04 PM


I am of the opinion that our Armed Forces, our Intelligence community and the Military Industrial complex should be dedicated toward the ideal of protecting American lives. However, these obscene weapons are far removed from from the notion that they contribute to a healthy and prosperous People. As a matter of fact, many factions contained within the above noted entities represent "The Enemy Within". It appears that certain scientists are rewarded for developing weapons and technology that can psychologically and physically debilitate a subject invisably irregardless whether said subject is perceived to be an "enemy of the state" or not. The situation in Grants Pass, Oregon seems to be a contest of how much you can isolate and torture a target invisably and not get caught. Even so, certain National Security provisions and Public Laws can and do indemify subcontractors from liability and thus the disturbing impunity with which they operate is effectively protected irregardless of the potential for negative Geo-political spin that this individualized Spiritual Coup de etat can generate. As Kamo stated herein, these weapons are a cowards wet dream.

Posted by: Benjamin J. Brown at March 12, 2006 08:25 PM


hate to mention it but it was also the government that invented the stronger more potent form of the lysergic acis known on the street as LSD. they tested it on their own men to see how they behave during basic training during vietnam and attempted to use it as a weapon on enemy troops but were never able to craft the right mechanism to deliver the attack. they only want their power and you can bet if they can use them in war as "safe, harmless, humane" then they can use them on the SUV driving republican soccer moms and the idiot jock kids to do whatever the hell they want. and they will too. just wait and see. and by the way you do realize that if everyone in the country revolted they would send the army to put us at rest so they could keep their throne... know this.

Posted by: Reed at March 11, 2006 01:50 AM


This is no problem. We can't even kill our people on death row (for 18-25 years) cause we're afraid we might hurt them in the process. We would die happily before we'd do anything to us or our enemies.

Posted by: KD at March 5, 2006 07:00 PM


It's good to see genius scientific minds who could potentially help to bring about huge advances in medical or otherwise humanitarian technology instead dedicating their lives to evil

Posted by: Ben at March 3, 2006 03:24 AM


The Nazis aren't going to win ... the Terrorist are on the run ... but not if the kill whitey anti-American Leftys' get their way! ... they wont

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=o60bqp

Posted by: Larrysn2 at February 28, 2006 09:38 PM


Okay, I admit it. You guys are on to us. But see, we NEED these weapons. They're our only defense against...

http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/luthor.htm

Lex Luthor and his Legion of Doom!!!

How do you expect mere men of flesh and blood to stop Gorilla Grodd's master plan to turn everyone on Earth into monkeys? Who's gonna stand up to Black Manta? YOU? Do you have the guts? I didn't think so. Are you gonna fight against the Toyman's entire planet made of deadly toys?

There's no Apache Chief to save the world now, God help us all. So it's up to US to stop them.

The Legion of Doom is a more real and more sinister threat than any of your chemtrails and ufos and illuminati put together. Trust me, I'm with the government. I know these things. I've done the research.

Posted by: Brian at February 28, 2006 08:40 PM


The Nazis were evil and cruel but they did perfect the modern day Flying Disk AKA the Tesla Disk, Aerospace Medicine, ICBMs, Jet Fighters, Giant Cannons, Synthetic Oil and a whole lot of other black projects and programs, black even today!

Posted by: Jaye at February 28, 2006 08:22 PM


Isn't it nice how, in the end, the Nazis won?

Posted by: Me at February 28, 2006 07:26 PM


Does mmamma REALLY need make that littlle brown indiginous boy suffer so horriibly for having a much larger more bang-worthy and handsomer apparatus?
Will Mr. Whitie ever find his ChapStick?

I guess I can't complain about getting ready to drown anymore than the next starving caged or skinned-alive PolarBear. Where they're so few, yet too many up there somewhere dying. in the quickly melting Polaris Regions of this poor Planet. As we are and have and are planning to continue to rip asunder and then blow her into little tiny chunks of garbage rocks
You know, I can;t complain about having to struggle so hard yo keeps my pipes above the surface ...trying not to drown
I really want to do better for myself but Why? Aren't there enough people around me having the best at the cost of horrifying paines and miseries at thier worst to everyliving things that are not a white Skinncolored socalled-MAN?

Posted by: dJenLP at February 28, 2006 01:46 AM


So do these other Universes have plans for an anti-virus? When we come hurling thru thier magnetosspericfields' at galaktic speeds as a star dusty rain shower of small bits and pieces of asteroid? following a comet that was once our precipous of Service...
EkHem ...to God?
to his Nazi jew son Jesus? Which one? Rodriegez or Sanchez?
In most so sorrowfulservice to theThe one that is
Moo-Slumish or Jooberish or was it?.... I mean is it you .?.
Or am I are you? have u, have I been? and ar e you<>we planning on being or not-being in perfect service?
of the darker side to the ones that wear blood-soaked cloaks of blood bleachred out into shimmering white? does mmamma REALLY need make that littlle brown indiginous boy suffer so horriibly for having a much larger and more fuck-worthy handsome cock?
Will Mr. Whitie ever find his ChapStick?
I s Th'i s you my love taking me away like fire on wood turned to ash and blown off of the beach into the darkening hungering deepening blackening blue Oceans ?

I guess I can't complain about getting ready to drown anymore than the next starving caged or skinned-alive PolarBear. Where they're so few, yet too many up there somewhere dying. in the quickly melting Polaris Regions of this poor Planet. As we are and have and are planning to continue to rip asunder and then blow her into little tiny chunks of garbage rocks
You know, I can;t complain about having to struggle so hard yo keeps my pipes above the surface ...trying not to drown
I really want to do better for myself but Why? Aren't there enough people around me having the best at the cost of horrifying paines and miseries at thier worst to everyliving things that are not a white brother?

Z~eaegk~hyiaIe Die Mr.Whitie....Mr.Chines Hyena.... oh yea and BLONDES!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: dJenLP at February 28, 2006 01:42 AM


Creating a human "Bee Hive" with lasers, microwaves and electromagnetism!

Soon there will the worker-bee people (the majority) and the elite kings-queens who control the hive,not by pheremones but by invisible "rays"?

Posted by: khawley at February 26, 2006 08:37 PM


Grunt, Swabbie, Airedale, Jarhead, Coastie, Reservist or Guard. You are our Country's best and I pray for you everyday. God bless you all!

Posted by: jaye at February 25, 2006 11:02 PM


so...what research have you done? Read stuff on the net from other sites like his?

The red blood cell thing is just amazing.

Posted by: erewhon at February 25, 2006 07:16 PM


carnicom isnt bs.

i've done the same research and it matches.

Posted by: wake up at February 25, 2006 07:14 PM


Gunny: You and Brian are the only ones since my last post that actually have a clue. Thumbs up. Boots and 'chutes are the key in combat, without boots on the ground all this stuff is just window dressing, however, things of this generic type could be pretty useful in MOUT to keep the locals back and flush insurgents out of buildings, for example. There's a lot of uses for plasma bloom related tech in other areas I probably should leave alone. But no, it doesn't replace soldiers on the ground.

Others:
1) Put down "carnicom", it's total BS.

2) the old "ufo technology" thing is pretty stale. If you had a technical background you would have a clue. I guess if you don't then it all DOES seem like magic, and you get into this "if I don't understand it, no one else does either, therefore it is all from UFO's" mindset. PS: Corso was having you on.

3) None of this stuff is intended to make you see images or hear voices by direct neural stimulation. It's a far far simpler thing to make you feel pain or scramble the nerves to your muscles in no particular pattern than it is, say, to make you hear a tone, much less a full-color image. Fearing that some sort of broadcast is taking your mind over is as old as radio itself. And it's always, ALWAYS, associated with a mental disorder...that 'no exotic warfare' website that someone mentioned is a shrink's heyday.

If you think something is making you hear voices, see things, do things beyond your control, it's most likely that you are losing it. You should go get some professional help.

Posted by: erewhon at February 25, 2006 06:17 PM


I live in Grants Pass, Oregon where I allege exists a clandestine Human Science facility/laboratory which engages in activities not unlike those described in the article. They utilze subliminal RF and EM pulse weaponry and related technology for purposes of Mind Control, indoctrination and torture upon non-consensual Human Beings such as myself. These invisable assaults are supplemented by the covert insinuation of various psycho-toxins to enhance the impact of the aforementioned weaponry. Among their diabolical schemes are constructing "street theatre" with is meant to confuse and confound. Additionally, the psycho-subliminal targeting include an absurd political platoform of dialetic contrarianism and issue parallelism. The imagery "blasted" into a targets cranium are usually pornographic and is augmented by neurological "surge" attacks. I find this demonic scientism an egregious affront to the most basic concepts of Human Rights and Civil Liberties. Anyone concerned about those issues can long ignore secret-subliminal Grants Pass operations.

Posted by: Benjamin J. Brown at February 25, 2006 05:16 PM


We need to hack into people's nervous systems because The OSI, ONI, DIA, NSA, CIA and The Feds are a bunch of Jackasses. They spy on Americans but
remember what they are, they are Fat, Stupid, But kissing, Ugly, Lazy, Government and Military workers who are underpaid, overworked and understaffed. They watched Walker, Ames, Hanson and Pollard and barely caught them! These people could not catch a cold and my taxes are paying their salaries, ouch! My trust is in God not in these fools! PS Where is Usama?

Posted by: jaye at February 25, 2006 10:07 AM


Nothing new here. From Buck Rogers to Star Trek, we've all seen the "death ray" weapons. Reality is just catching up to fiction. And because of the mass-media exposure, we accept it. But we miss the moral lesson: it's an act of evil to harm another - regardless of what new tekno toys we have.

Posted by: Tracy at February 25, 2006 05:58 AM


grrrr!
http://www.freewebs.com/noexoticwarfarezone/senatorcornyn.htm

Posted by: mallee at February 25, 2006 01:11 AM


To weinhaus .. in a word? yes (lot of very good links here requires patience and much thought. But ultimately its worthwhile)

Posted by: mallee at February 25, 2006 01:10 AM


To weinhaus .. in a word? yes (there are a lot of very good links here requires patience, an ability to sift and sort, and much thought. But ultimately I think its worthwhile) To weinhaus .. in a word? yes (lot of very good links here requires patience and much thought. But ultimately its worthwhile)

Posted by: mallee at February 25, 2006 01:08 AM


What's next? Do you think that the Chemtrails have anything to do with these "weapons"?

Posted by: weinhaus at February 24, 2006 11:16 PM


With the increase in sophistication, the distance between the victim and the triggerman increases, so that perfect cowards can now torture to their heart's content without the inconvenience of hearing their victim's cries of pain. A coward's wet dream come true. And now, with tech-induced sensory stimulation, the entourage of the victim can have the victim packed off to a psychiatric hospital where he or she will be diagnosed as delusional, suffering from hallucinations, hearing voices, seeing things that aren't there... a perfect nut case.

Posted by: kamo at February 24, 2006 10:41 PM


Hi-Tech has it's place....air supiority, area denial, etc, but the one thing history has taught us, or should have, is that you can never control all of the people all of the time. If you want to win any conflict you have to put boots on the ground..and give them what they need to succeed. American's are great improvisors, but we are also very trusting. In our current conflicts, we control the air, but we do not control the emotions of the people. While this technology may be a useful tool, no one weapon is ever the ultimate means to success.

The Gunny, USMC (ret.)

Posted by: TheGunny at February 24, 2006 09:50 PM


The perfect combination of hi and low tech is the modern day UFO manmade and designed in the late 1800s by Nicola Tesla but updated with technology i.e. computers and lasers etc. etc. check this out
http://members.tripod.com/~lyne4lyne/ It's too cool! Peace!

Posted by: jaye at February 24, 2006 09:13 PM


The way to win in war is a mix of high and low tech weapons and tactics, we learned that in Vietnam. The more complex the equipment and plans the more things go wrong. K. I. S. S. is the way to go. "War is hell" but winning a war takes a hell of a lot of thought, muscle and guts. God bless our troops and God bless America.

Posted by: jaye at February 24, 2006 08:38 PM


The Air Force needs to control the nervous systems of the male cadets at the USAF Academy to stop them from raping the female cadets. And with all this high tech BS the military is still losing people to low-tech IEDs in Iraq! Not to mention all the high-tech friendly fire incidents! Aim High, Duh!

Posted by: jaye at February 24, 2006 07:46 PM


This is to DDD. Since the insurgents are cowards because they don't engage the most powerful military in in the world in frontal assault, I have a suggestion for you. Why don't you grab your M-16 hero and teach by example. Go into Falluja by yourself and call them out and show them how a hero fights a war. Don't hide behind that Trillion dollar high tech military. Go get em sport.

Posted by: yeranalyst at February 24, 2006 05:54 PM


What about the attack robots the size of a pin, or smart dust as it is also called? What about chemtrails and mycoplasma and dessicated red blood cells found wihtin many trails sprayed daily by tankers and ordinary aircraft? This goes on daily and is the biggest engineering project ever undertaken.
These new weapons are great for techie goons, but they bode ill for all of us when they will be used in the USA to quell dissent - when we hjave had enough of the lies and theft and pedophilia of our so-called leaders.
km

Posted by: theilluminatedone at February 24, 2006 11:54 AM


To David Roblee,

YOUtopia sounds good man. It's definitely a great idea. However, in reality it'll be far more difficult to accomplish. If you want to discuss the idea further sometime, I'd certainly be interested. E-mail: freevision@inbox.com

Posted by: James at February 24, 2006 07:44 AM


Well Reality is cruel. They want to enslave us.
Real war and real battlefield is that space between our ears. When you win there, you win everywhere.

Posted by: Peter at February 24, 2006 02:34 AM


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

To whom it may concern,

What can one do or say that will help others wake up to the reality of what is occuring nationwide and worldwide? Lets face facts. Our government is an organized criminal fascist enterprise run by religious capitalists[jesuITs] intent on retaining control over us and our children. Our government is in fact composed of luciferian lovers of money and is the scourge of our times. Our entire way of life is corrupt to its core because we allow ourselves to be ruled and deceived by luciferian lovers of money enacting monied laws to rule over us at our expense. Our history is filled with global genocide, monied lies, war, manufactured disease, raw greed, and merciless brainwashing, along with a slow erosion of our rights to exist as sovereign and free human beings. If this agenda is not luciferian I don't know what is.

I want to be clear. Our rights are being compromised for economic reasons. Given this simple fact, would it not make sense to fix the economic system that is compromising our rights?

Here then is an overview of YOUtopia, designed to fix todays problems through simple, viable, cheap, peaceful economic reform.

= = =

YOUtopia

MISSION of YOUtopia: To forward and support in-common yearnings for peace, freedom, love, justice, understanding, prosperity, health, opportunity, and growth for the good of all our relations through the discussion and dissemination of simple, viable, peaceful, common-sensical economic reform designed to benefit everybody worldwide no matter their beliefs or belief system.

DESCRIPTION of YOUtopia: YOUtopia in practical terms is in essence an economic system designed to empower the active manifestation of dreams built on individual and collective philosophies and beliefs. The inhabitants of YOUtopia, are YOU, ME, US and THEM. In other words, WE EACH define YOUtopia according to OUR terms, dreams, needs, wants, and desires, BOTH individually AND collectively as co-inhabitants of YOUtopia. YOUtopia is grounded in the human condition and is designed to improve the human condition for all peoples worldwide through sound, viable, peaceful economic reform that is designed to improve living conditions for all life forms. YOUtopia is a TRUE global economic system that is designed to fill need, want, and desire at a highly reduced cost for the good of all our relations.

VIRTUES of YOUtopia: YOUtopia is anti-war, anti-poverty, anti-crime, anti-disease, and anti-usury. YOUtopia is pro-freedom, pro-peace, pro-growth, and pro-prosperity. YOUtopia is not a religion, a political movement or a cult. YOUtopia embraces self-expression, diversity and freedom for all. YOUtopia is also designed to empower growth for all, all at a lesser cost for all.

PHILOSOPHY of YOUtopia: In a phrase, freedom from monetary limitations imposed on peoples worldwide through centralized world banking cartels imposing monied policies, rules, laws, and practices implemented and institutionalized at the expense of others. The philosophy of YOUtopia simply put is to work together for the good of the all instead of the few through basic economic reform.

ECONOMIC SYSTEM of YOUtopia: YOUtopia is structured around simple concepts and ideas aimed to enable and empower all belief systems eqally and equitably for the good of all. The way to accomplish this seemingly daunting task is to seperate and expand the current global monied economic models into a simple yet effective two-tiered system based on the application of usury for all in-common and all un-common goods and services. In other words, all IN-COMMON goods and services would be usury-free and All UN-COMMON goods and services would not be usury-free. In simpler terms, money would remain for both tiers, usury would not.

BENEFITS of YOUtopia: The benefits of such a simplfied usury-reformation economic system are profound. Less monied war, poverty, crime, disease coupled with more freedom, opportunity, prosperity, growth for the good of all worldwide.

Ask: do you want more stuff for you and yours? Do you want a bigger better house? Do you want a bigger better car/truck? Do you want more cash in your pocket? Do you want more free time to enjoy more stuff? Do you want more prosperity? Do you want more opportunity? Do you want more efficiency? Do you want less disease, less war, less poverty, less suffering, and less confusion? Do you want future generations to grow up with unlimited potential? Do you want everyone to enjoy more freedom, peace, love, understanding, respect, prosperity, and growth for the good of all our relations or do you only want a select few to enjoy these benefits at your expense? If you want more good things, choose usury reformation and the above mentioned benefits will become manifest.

In closing for now, each of us have a choice to make. Freedom FROM monied evil or slavery TO monied evil. I choose Freedom. How about you?

David Roblee

Posted by: David at February 24, 2006 01:22 AM


Unless everyone willing to change lifestyle (back to horse & plows) all this shit is needed to keep the machine chuging along - how the hell else do keep 6 billion ass holes shitting properly every day and not on each other... till someone or something better comes along this is it - love it or not that's the way things are -
Everything from 9\11 to Iraq to hyper-inflation to whatever is happening... is required. You're o.k. if you educate yourself and you're not in the wrong place at the wrong fucking time. In the end we all get what we deserve - we are not that far off the monkey tree - everything else is just an illusion. By the way - we are all Bush and Bush is all of us - so pick on someone else, like your grandmother and stop whining.

Posted by: Master Of All at February 23, 2006 10:34 PM


The Extraterrestrial Intervention into our world has spurred the development of some of these weapons.

On July 1, 1954 in Walesville, New York a jet fighter was shot out of the air by a flying disk. The pilot felt overwhelming heat and was ejected from his plane.

The plane crashed and killed 4 people, one of which was a scientist for General Electric. The scientist was working in the field of "Theoretical applications of the use of nuclear weapons. How to kill the most people with the use of nuclear weapons.

More recently, August of 2001, a flying disk shot 2 F-16 fighter pilots with an intense sound beam, temporarily disabling the pilots. The unknown flying craft then froze the fuel lines of the planes, sending both pilots into Eternity.

This was speedily censored, yet it gives an idea of the power available to these unknown "Visitors."

Our nuclear war criminals are finished because of their attempts to immolate the mass of the human race; They know their finished, but their hoping that you all don't figure it out.

http://politicsofet.com

Posted by: Patrick Sullivan at February 23, 2006 10:20 PM


If we try to make such advanced and dangerous weapons as to prevent other parts of the world from trying to destroy us, then you are inviting the world to come and destroy us. There will be some company that buys the weapons, then sells them out to some other places in the world. The buyers will make the SAME technology, try to surpass ours, and then point them at us. Why? Because we would be a threat, and when they are the other threat, they can siege war on our asses so as to eliminate the other threat; so that THEY will be the ones who are "safe". No, we don't need such rediculous weapons. If we keep making then like this, we will all be battered and beaten to the point of fighting our future wars with sticks and stones.

Posted by: JD at February 23, 2006 02:07 AM


Of course, there's something to be said for reducing the buildup of weapons. Unfortunately, the United States can only act for the United States.

If tomorrow, the US stopped research on this device, then the Russians would continue to develop similar technologies, deterred not a whit.
If tomorrow, the US stopped all weapons research, then North Korea would still continue to pursue a stronger military.
If tomorrow, the US removed its overseas military presence and began reducing its arms strength to only what was required to defend our shores, then it wouldn't change the activities of countries overseas one bit (well, actually, certain countries would be far more aggressive).

The problem is that the US cannot unilaterally disarm the world. This isn't Superman 4, when he threw all the nuclear weapons into the sun. The US can only disarm itself. The only thing that will do is remove one player from the table. The rest will continue to war, as they always have.

Posted by: Brian at February 18, 2006 02:47 PM


Pete, that's right.. I think it's fucking Disneyland because I agree with Eisenhower. If you only knew how much America would be better off without you... you'd hang yourself. Please, help America and die, Pete. Die.

Posted by: Cowicide at February 18, 2006 07:36 AM


Sorry, I think Eisenhower had it right. Call me un-American, but I agree with Eisenhower... till I die. Stop the corrupt madness before we destroy ourselves. This is not defense of freedom anymore. The sad thing is.. deep down... you know it too.

Posted by: Cowicide at February 18, 2006 07:33 AM


I think the point in developing weapons that go beyond the imagination of most men, is to avoid war. Most people cannot express their understanding of such weapons and this rightly persuades them not to be involved.

But then there are the characters that are too self absorbed to realize that they have no option.

Posted by: TRB at February 16, 2006 06:47 PM


Yeah, the world is a wonderful safe place and everyone loves disneyland and its a "small, small, world"

Posted by: Pete at February 16, 2006 05:32 PM


My last words, I have work that isn't getting done as well:

"1. How do you separate technology thats beneficial from technology that isnt?
Testing it, using the precautionary principle, and common-sense."

But my point is, it often ISN'T common sense. It's all interrelated, a weave of knowledge rather than something you can pick and choose on the cafeteria plan. There isn't a big menu marked "only useful for killing brown people".

2. "What about tech that can protect you like lasers mounted on airliners? It might protect you in the future!
My point is that we wouldnt need that kind of tech if people werent interested in shooting them down."

There will always be people interested in shooting them down. As you state later, there's never been a peaceful time.

3. "I think technological innovation is important and a good thing, but it doesnt happen in a vacuum. The people who developed computer technology for the military could just as easily have invented it for some other application, but we chose to invest our post-WWII wealth in the military."

And the military often sees fit to invest it back into basic research, since the public sector doesn't fund this to any extent. Or if it does, it generally keeps the results in its corporate pocket. You would not BELIEVE how much money the military puts into pure science research that is NOT tied to weapons programs. That might be an interesting article (Noah?) I wasn't kidding about the research into Fermi gases and Bose-Einstein condensates, these are among studies funded by Navy and AF last year. And unless something is turned up that is really surprising in an unpleasant way, the results are released back into academia.

It's also a human characteristic that goals drive development. You tend to get more done looking at "how do I solve this problem" than "go research something".

4. "I think youll agree that convincing someone that the system is good is a more effective means of getting them to accept it than coercing them into it."

(big grin) What I think is that you have just penned a very good definition of the term "diplomacy". If you find it duplicitous, you have just discovered the truth about the human condition as it relates to the concept "government". Welcome to the world.

Oh, and are you espousing Rousseau's position that it's noble to be primitive? It's not all it's cracked up to be. Try eating roots and bugs and living on a poncho liner for 3 weeks without a bath, you'll see what I mean.

5. "My argument is that the way we do things now ISNT benevolent, and doesnt work, but that the vast majority of people seem to accept that it does, or at least dont contest it very strongly."

I disagree heartily. It is for the most part benevolent, and works pretty well, which is WHY the vast majority accept it. There could be improvements, but it's the nature of people that you can't please all the people all the time. There's always room for vast improvement, but I'm not sure there's some magic form of government (or magically benevolent administrators) that will satisfy everyone all the time while dispensing perfect justice. I'd be happy to see it if it ever exists.

You want to see something malevolent that DOESN'T work, spend your trip money on a visit to Africa. Or rather, don't.

6. "I think the status quo is doing a terrible job of helping people, and that different systems in different places can function more adequately"

Where I feel we may differ is in the definition of help - I disagree with it in the sense "support", but agree with in in the sense "assist". I am not willing to feed your dead ass forever, but I am willing to send you to school, for example. In the end, "help" has to come from yourself, no-one can live your life for you. And there's nothing that can be more onerous than a government that is providing your sustenance. Benevolent slavery is still slavery, even if it feeds all the mouths.

7. "I think a pretty good case can be made that its to secure US Empire. Why else would we invade a country that didnt attack us that wasnt threatening us whose government we installed?"

Did we stay there the last time? Do you think we intend to set up the US protectorate of Kosovo? I really don't think we are out to make this a US state or territory.

8. "Im just a (flattered) 18 year-old high-school senior whos just read a lot of Chomsky "

Chomsky's not bad, but it's like eating Cocoa Puffs, it's just a part of a complete and balanced breakfast, if you keep eating it by itself, your teeth will rot and you'll get scurvy.

You seem to be pretty advanced for 18, go grab some Mises. Mises basically bends Marx over the table and has his way with him, especially over the concept of "value" upon which Marx bases his theory. He is a "classic libertarian" instead of a Chomskyite, I suspect you will find the differences interesting.

9. "Just like I dont have the technical expertise, YOU dont have the expertise to say it SHOULD be built either, especially considering the political, economic, social, military, industrial, etc. consequences."

I also suggest you tie into at least one applied science course, one where you actually have to get your hands dirty and generate some original output. I still get the impression you believe that research and development can be spot targeted to produce only "good" results. If your system of "the people vote to decide what research is done" is ever implemented, you'll soon discover the truth about Rousseau's philosophy.

Um, go take a look at the Russians' decision to base their biology on Lysenko. It, too, was a political decision on how science should be conducted. You might also contemplate how the current "intelligent design" fad might influence the development of American biology, should THAT become "voted in" by the populace.

10. "That doesnt mean there shouldnt be public input about the direction we take. Why dont we involve social scientists, psychologists, and anthropologists to examine the kinds of effects these technologies will have beyond their military implications?"

Ask the sociologists, psychologists, and anthropologists what they think of the hard science guys voting on what they do. For that matter, ask Chomsky how he feels about the general populace voting on what he writes next. Surely, concepts that he introduces into the body politic have as far reaching ramifications as some plasma study? Perhaps what he is allowed to say, think about, write, should also be brought to the mens publica for assent.

Heh. I've seen anthropologists in action. I'll live outside your anthropocracy, if that's ok.

11. "Early human societies cooperated on almost EVERYTHING, and indigenous societies the world over still do. We all cooperate today. I dont see you murdering your neighbor to steal their land, or your boss to take their position.

Violence may be inevitable, buy why, for gods sake, would we want to encourage, develop, and promote it?"

Oh, my. Put down the high school social studies book and run away. Early human societies were just as bad as any other, and indigenous societies all over are often quite violent in their dealings with each other. I know it's trendy in popular social studies texts to downplay this. Understand that most anthropologists and sociologists are, at some point in their early careers, whisked away to a dark place, their eyelids are stitched open, and they are fed a Clockwork Orange dose of Rousseau. They come out muttering "noble savage...noble savage" and then write the swill you are given in high school. Or in college for that matter.

Since you admit that violence and war is a part of human behavior, perhaps you will explain how a weak military and a fragile defensive posture would benefit your society? Again, I'd like to think everyone will play nice. I just don't want to bet your life on it.

11. "What I am saying is that we shouldnt try to fight bigger and better wars. We should focus on stopping them (not by winning the decisively, but by not having them happen in the first place. Lao Tzu himself said that the most cunning general wins the battle without spilling a drop of blood)"

Bigger is bad. Better is good. You agree with my position throughout this paragraph - it's better to have more humane, less lethal weaponry.

12. "The best way to help curb terrorism, though, in my humble opinion, is to remove the reasons it could exist in the first place."

For an interesting read, go look up the history of the Barbary Coast pirates, key phrase "not one cent for tribute"

13. " I just want to say that the state of Israel can exist at the same time that the vast majority of Muslims are accepting of it."

That's in the realm of possibility, like Farrakhan dancing the tango with Pat Robertson with a rose in his teeth. Yes, it could happen...BUT.

14. "If we invested the resources we invest in military research into the research of peaceful technology, wed get a reliable pacemaker a lot faster than we would if we spent it on the MIRACL and waited for spin-offs."

The amount of this that DOES go on is amazing, but in terms of the MILITARY investing it in basic sciences. Most military projects that aren't "take poison before reading" are required to have dual-use development with fast tracking into the public sector. Grant you, I've seen some pretty amusing rationales given for public sector applicability on some projects.

Anyways, it has been fun. I suspect you'll do well in your debate.

Posted by: erewhon at February 16, 2006 01:08 PM


ALl fine and dandy. Have we asked anyone they've tested these things on whether or not there have been any long term effects?

The only other thing I ask is that the person or persons who would emply this supposedly non lethal use of force be trained in the same manner that police are trained. That's right, have someone use it on them first. That may make someone think twice before ever deploying it in a situation that doesn't warrant it's usage.

Don't ask me how I know...

Stretch

Posted by: Stretch at February 16, 2006 09:13 AM


IWWW:

Some interesting points.

1) How do you separate the technology that will be "beneficial" in your perfect world, from that which is not? Sad to say, it is all part and parcel. The "death ray" (note that even YOU used this phrase, and you are debating more logically than most here) being developed today might, for all you know, be used to protect the airliner that you're in tomorrow. Or for that matter, provide you with clean fusion power, because, hey, laser fusion is one of the current frontrunners.

1. How do you separate technology thats beneficial from technology that isnt?
Testing it, using the precautionary principle, and common-sense. The death ray comment was meant somewhat jokingly.

2. What about tech that can protect you like lasers mounted on airliners? It might protect you in the future!
My point is that we wouldnt need that kind of tech if people werent interested in shooting them down.

3. What you say means that we cant have any technical development
Thats just not true, and misconstrues what Im saying. I think technological innovation is important and a good thing, but it doesnt happen in a vacuum. The people who developed computer technology for the military could just as easily have invented it for some other application, but we chose to invest our post-WWII wealth in the military.

There also isnt a zero-sum relationship with what we fund. At the same time we develop cleaner power sources and assist people with living we can invest in peaceful technology, AND a defensive military at the same time.

4. Tech is a double-edged sword, growing food needs fertilizer, etc.
This applies as much to your argument as mine, but in the end its inconsequential. We should minimize or eliminate environmental harm, and its relatively easy to minimize (or in some cases even eliminate) things like fertilizers. Especially with plants like hemp. :)

5. Youre a neo-luddite
Look, buddy: just because I dont buy into the we need to throw money at researching new military technology to find better ways to kill and control bullshit doesnt mean that Im a luddite Im all for technological development as long as its safe, controlled, and beneficial. Branding me as a luddite doesnt do anything to advance the discussion, and is just an ad-hominem. Theres also nothing wrong with being anti-technology. Its a perfectly respectable viewpoint with warranted claims.

6. It's not only possible, but the normal order of things, to be able to do more than one at a time. The "we shouldn't spend money on researching (x), it has to be spent on putting people into apartments" argument is bifurcation, a logical fallacy, as I'm sure you know.
Yeah, no doubt. My argument is that were spending MORE on the military than we should be, not that any military spending is bad.

7. Being shot by a death-ray would cause more panic than people marching in the streets
My argument isnt that the specific kinds of weapons that the state uses cause people to backlash, its the way they exert control. Having secret police and doing the whole Stalinism thing isnt nearly as effective at controlling citizenry than making them think they want whats being done. The ability to see things from space and developing more efficient and effective means of crowd control merely help the state control people. I think youll agree that convincing someone that the system is good is a more effective means of getting them to accept it than coercing them into it.

Technology and technological development goes hand in hand with making people think their societies are progressing, because people assume the Diderotian world-view that social progress is in tandem with technological progress.

8. A system thats benevolent and works means that its benevolent and it works.
My argument is that the way we do things now ISNT benevolent, and doesnt work, but that the vast majority of people seem to accept that it does, or at least dont contest it very strongly.

9. We must be pragmatic, no one political or economic system can solve every problem.
I concur. I think the status quo is doing a terrible job of helping people, and that different systems in different places can function more adequately

10. other side of the isle
How convenient that there are only two sides to politics the republicrats and the demicans, eh?

11. We dont know why were in Iraq
I think a pretty good case can be made that its to secure US Empire. Why else would we invade a country that didnt attack us that wasnt threatening us whose government we installed? Read right war right time by Kaplan and whatsisface. Thats the neocon agenda. They unabashedly say we need to further American dominance of the globe (Project for the New American Century, anyone?)

I guess youre right that we dont know the SPECIFIC reasons, but thats just a red-herring.

12. You, like me, probably have military experience and overseas travel, but still dont understand everything thats happening.

Im just a (flattered) 18 year-old high-school senior whos just read a lot of Chomsky (and Kaplan, Krauthammer, Buckley, Jr., Kissinger, etc. to balance things out, of course)

13. You dont have expertise to make decisions about what kind of technology we should develop.

When my sister was 12, she used to say: Duhh-yee!

Just like I dont have the technical expertise, YOU dont have the expertise to say it SHOULD be built either, especially considering the political, economic, social, military, industrial, etc. consequences.

We obviously have to be somewhat informed before we make democratic decisions, which is why congress calls for expert testimony.

The point is that study needs to be done about the implications of technology before we develop it. Not just how effectively it can penetrate skin, or make people shit themselves, but about how it will affect society at-large.

Im not saying that I alone am qualified to make these decisions, but neither are the people who are making them now, which is why its so important to be more careful with what we create.

Clemenceau once said War is too important to be left to the generals and thats still true (much to the chagrin of general Ripper, from Dr. Strangelove, Im sure)

The same thing is happening here.

13. You couldnt realistically educate everyone on the decisions we make.

That doesnt mean there shouldnt be public input about the direction we take. Why dont we involve social scientists, psychologists, and anthropologists to examine the kinds of effects these technologies will have beyond their military implications?

14. These problems arent specific administration
When did I say I liked Clinton (or Jimmy Carter, or Wilson, or whomever?)

I applaud your clarity of thought. These problems are intrinsic to the way we run our country and our society, not WHO is running them.

15. Its human nature to be violent.
Its human nature to cooperate sometimes AND to be violent sometimes. I dont think violence will go away if we start to play nice, just that encouraging cooperation over militarism is better than the alternative. Early human societies cooperated on almost EVERYTHING, and indigenous societies the world over still do. We all cooperate today. I dont see you murdering your neighbor to steal their land, or your boss to take their position.

Violence may be inevitable, buy why, for gods sake, would we want to encourage, develop, and promote it?

16. What do you mean no one wins a war? Where is Nazi Germany? Where is Imperial Japan? Carthage? The Jutes? This isnt even an argument!
All I see is a list of losers of wars

My argument isnt that no group is militarily defeated, its that in a broader sense, we all lose when we fight wars. (In the case of Germany, Hitler shot himself, we tried a lot of leaders for war crimes, and then stole all their military scientists)

Im not trying to say that no one should ever fight anyone again. Thats probably not:
a.) probable, or
b.) desirable.

What I am saying is that we shouldnt try to fight bigger and better wars. We should focus on stopping them (not by winning the decisively, but by not having them happen in the first place. Lao Tzu himself said that the most cunning general wins the battle without spilling a drop of blood)

16. Can terror be defeated? Probably not unless the larger force annihilates the smaller.
Yeah, exactly my point. Totally my point, youre so close to agreeing with me its crazy. The war on terror is unwinnable. Were fighting all terrorism everywhere? Thats INSANE totally flippin ridiculous. Theres no way we can defeat all terrorism everywhere, or even all terrorism against the united states. The point isnt to defeat terrorism, its to advance US dominance. Its to have an endless cycle of militarism.
I cant imagine that a single member of any administration (domestic or international) would ever think that we could stop all terrorism.
The best way to help curb terrorism, though, in my humble opinion, is to remove the reasons it could exist in the first place.

17. Osama Bin Laden hates us because were not Muslims and we support Israel.
::rolls eyes::

peep this: Osama Bin Laden literally SAYS that he hates us because we maintain a massive US military presence in the middle east. I mean, hes SAYING IT.

From the Wiki: bin Laden's main grievances against the West and especially the United States, include support for the State of Israel, United States support for several dictatorial regimes in the Middle East, and the presence of United States military bases in Saudi Arabia, where the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina are located. The U.S. withdrew from these bases in 2003, stating that they were no longer necessary for their campaign in Iraq.

Obviously supporting Israel pisses him off, and a lot of other people too, but Im pretty sure that we can pretty easily stop sponsoring dictatorial regimes in the middle east and then scale down aid to Israel. A lot of Muslims are mad that Israel exists, but people in the Middle East arent inhuman, theyre reasonable, intelligent, human beings and deserve the respect that entails. The repression of their people and a lack of access to important religious sites is whats (in a lot of cases) most important to these people. The fact that Israel bulldozes their houses and shoots at the children throwing rocks at their tanks adds fuel to the flame. This isnt to say that the Palestinians havent done some crazy ridiculous awful things in return, but the point is that there is a lot we could do to allay these concerns without smoking them out of their caves

I dont want to get into a debate about whether violence is justified in the Middle East, or if the Israelis or the Palestinians are right. I just want to say that the state of Israel can exist at the same time that the vast majority of Muslims are accepting of it.

18. The point of our presence in the Middle East isnt because we hate brown people.
Well, not solely, certainly, but we do not respect the lives of middle-eastern Muslims as much as white, Christian Americans. Thats not universal, but it certainly exists. I dont think thats the sole, or even a major reason why were there, but it helps.

My point is that having effective means of crowd control for the people in the Middle East wont make them hate us any less.

19. It would be nice to wave the magic wand, and all of it goes away, everyone is nice, and we all dance with unicorns on green fields under rainbows of living light.

Yeah, I know, but LSD hasnt been legal since the 60s.

20. Back in the real world, I can't point to a time in history that a lack of conflict has ever been the case. Can you? Please..show me the idyllic peace that existed once. No?
No. There has never been universal world peace in recent memory. Are there periods where there is less conflict? Yes. Should we try to make those periods longer and more peaceful? Yes.

21.Not killing someone on the battlefield has to be better than killing them.
I agree. We should try to minimize both, however.

22. I understand your viewpoint is that no battles should ever happen, but I can't help but feel that history and sociology points out that this is an unlikely state of affairs.
This isnt my viewpoint, but its nice that you understand it.

22. I can't really help what the Russians are doing. They're into really bad biologicals as well. But if they are over there making some sort of "heart stopper", and you have to remember that not every bit of weird research produces "death rays" even if its researching them, it might be sort of nice to know how to make it not work on YOU. But the same "heart stopper death ray" technology may also end up showing them how to repair faulty cardiac conduction systems...might it not be nice to have a non-invasive pacemaker that works better than the current implants? It's the nature of things that they can always be put to good or evil uses. Ignoring a search for knowledge altogether in order to avoid misuse is willful ignorance.

For every SS-22 Sunburn, we have a Misty satellite. For every plasmoid beam, we have AEGIS, for every Shkval torpedo, we have an SR-71.

If we invested the resources we invest in military research into the research of peaceful technology, wed get a reliable pacemaker a lot faster than we would if we spent it on the MIRACL and waited for spin-offs.

(yeah, I know fancy acronyms and names too)

A lot of what the Russians develop is so they can counter a development weve made. We can encourage them to not develop nasty biologicals at the same time we cooperate on peaceful cooperation.

Obviously a world without violence isnt possible, and its obviously asinine to not develop any new technology, but I think we should try to minimize violence, and focus on healthy, peaceful technology while we explore the risks and benefits before we fully exploit something.

This has been fun, but I have a debate tournament to get ready for

Posted by: IVWW at February 16, 2006 01:12 AM


To be accurate, it's Chamberlain's defense of the agreement.

BTW, funny you should be using a computer, considering that the integrated circuit was invented by Kilby while working on miniaturizing military circuitry. Oh, and a surprising number of the concepts of the machine you're using came from Whirlwind. The architecture? John Von Neumann's, who came up with it while working on military applications, and the network protocol you're communicating with derives from ARPANET, TCP/IP had its start as a military protocol. You really should read Hambling's book, it's a nice overview.

Especially while you're being all innocent of connection to the "military industrial complex" there.

Posted by: erewhon at February 15, 2006 10:11 PM


Cowicide:

There doesn't appear to be much allowed here as far as HTML goes. But, tit for tat, as they say:

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/ralph/workbook/ralprs36.htm

The text of the Munich Agreement, 1938: Peace in Our Time by Neville Chamberlain. ;)

Posted by: erewhon at February 15, 2006 10:02 PM


Whoops... hopefully now this link will be "clickable":

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Posted by: Cowicide at February 15, 2006 09:42 PM



► Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

Posted by: Cowicide at February 15, 2006 09:31 PM


IWWW:

Some interesting points.

1) How do you separate the technology that will be "beneficial" in your perfect world, from that which is not? Sad to say, it is all part and parcel. The "death ray" (note that even YOU used this phrase, and you are debating more logically than most here) being developed today might, for all you know, be used to protect the airliner that you're in tomorrow. Or for that matter, provide you with clean fusion power, because, hey, laser fusion is one of the current frontrunners.

But, by your argument, we can't have any technical development, you can't do that AND put people into apartments. So, let's have no tech at all. Only, how are you going to feed them? You know, the nitrogen fixing process used in manufacturing fertilizer? Military use. See, for guys with YOUR point of view, everything has to stop while you do something else. No medical developments please, we're feeding the homeless. No new semiconductors, they might be put to nefarious purposes. Solar cells? Sorry, that's technical, and this decade we're plaiting daisies to placate Gaia.

Luckily, the neo-Luddite view is typically not embraced by most people, although a lot of them will spout it. I am very sure you don't believe it at heart, but should you be one of the few, please, send me a photo of you living in the woods without clothing as you cast off your technical dross.

It's not only possible, but the normal order of things, to be able to do more than one at a time. The "we shouldn't spend money on researching (x), it has to be spent on putting people into apartments" argument is bifurcation, a logical fallacy, as I'm sure you know.

2) "people are more likely to accept highly technical citizen control"

Oh, please. So, in your worldview, being shot is going to cause a ruckus, while some fantasy death ray burning people down from orbit like a big magnifying glass will go over? I don't think you really believe this.

3)"A system that people thinks works and is benevolent is one they're more unlikely to resist."

In one sense I agree with you, if the system is benevolent and works you would be insane to "resist". Here's the sad part. No system is perfect, nor will there ever be one. No government that has ever been, has been above reproach. Given that they're all run by people, you're not going to find one. The invisible hand isn't going to guide us to nirvana any more than there will ever be a day of the worker's paradise. The best you're ever going to get is a compromise, and it's going to have some corruption.

4) "What possible reason could we have for invading Iraq?"

Good one, and a question most of us have often asked ourselves here. The problem is that I'm not privy to whatever data, if there was any, that was circulating. It's not like you get a datafeed into US HUMINT when you get your Intelink connection.

Everyone has their own personal conclusions. I'd like to just pick a reason but personally I'm not sure anyone knows. If you think you do, great, it must be nice to have such conviction. Remember though, that a lot of the people on the other side of the aisle were also saying the same thing during the Clinton administration, so there was probably some foundation for what they thought .. at the time.

It may be a crap decision in the end. Personally, I tend to lean that way. But if you're looking for perfect leadership, you'll never find that either.

5)"the question "can it be abused" stems from the larger question "should it be built"?

I don't think it should, but maybe I'm crazy. After all, you're the professional, so no one else's opinion counts, right? I mean, if the masses are ignorant, they shouldn't be allowed to participate, right? Who needs democratic decision making?"

Who are you to say what should be built, or investigated, or researched? Seriously?

Do you have the expertise to say, "well, we won't do any investigation into the nature of cosmology, we need to feed the San instead. Won't do any research into chemistry, you know, chemistry has been misused, let's cook some stew for these guys over here. Why look into antibiotics, they don't work anyway, so screw genetic research. Someone might do something evil"

It must be nice to have the Godlike perspective that allows you to know what research is good and which is evil, what knowledge might be needed down the road and what will not. Especially, it's interesting to think we should "vote on it", which is particularly insane.

"Ok, let's have a referendum on whether we allow someone to investigate laser induced reverse-Brehmsstrahlung plasmas... everyone in favor raise your hands?"

"What's a plasma?"

You are decrying some sort of Orwellian society, but you are embracing one with half your comments, only yours is a tyranny of the masses. I'd like to see the society that has the time to sit around and have an informed vote on every bit of research and development, too. Personally, I wouldn't understand 2 bits of the biology stuff. How shall I vote on research I can't pronounce?

Do YOU, IWWW, really think you are up to being able to pick and choose, intelligently, about, say, whether we should investigate the characteristics of Fermi gases? Or the rotation of Bose-Einstein condensates?

6) "You yourself admit that you're a technical professional and therefore fall victim to the story of the six blind men phenomenon. What qualifications do you have to discuss the social and political implications of this kind of machine?"

The same as you, I'd expect. The qualifications of an educated adult with some overseas travel and military experience. Only, I also understand quite a bit of the technical background as well, whereas you are spouting off about "death rays". The social and political ramifications are the purview of the government, if you believe in the 'social contract' theory. The government in this case has expressed an interest in such things. I can't think of an administration that didn't, either, so it's not specific to this one, as much as you may choose to think so.

7) "Weapons and militarism are just an endless cycle of hate, destruction and violence. No one wins a war, no one "beats" terrorism."

I imagine the first caveman poked the second one in the eye with a sharp stick. Weapons and militarism are a facet of human behavior. To think it will go away because you want everyone to play nice is naive.

So, no one wins a war? Where, pray tell, is the government of Nazi Germany? Of imperial Japan? Carthage? The Jutes? Many wars have been won, probably most, in a decisive manner. This isn't even an argument.

Can asymmetric warfare aka terrorism be defeated? In the past it has gone both ways. It is quite difficult to do, however, and if history is an accurate indicator, these things usually drag on forever unless the larger force gets tired of it and annihilates the lesser in a sort of hoof-and-mouth disease solution.

8) "Osama Bin Laden doesn't hate us because we're free, he hates us because the US military maintains thousands of bases off of US soil to secure oil resources for US citizens in other parts of the world."

I'd say he probably hates us (if he's still alive to do so) because we're not Muslims and we support Israel.

But in one sense I do agree, if oil were to be removed from the picture their 'societal imperative' would fade, their economic power would be diluted, the Arab countries would fall from the world stage and become just another quaint place you never go to on vacation, like Chad.

I'm all for it. Curiously, the very laser plasma research you decry may hold the key to the near elimination of oil dependency, which goes to show you that science should be left to those that understand it.

9) "Tazing thousands of brown people who hate us doesn't make them hate us any less."

The "brown people" argument is exceptionally weak. Surely you don't want to go there. Or we'll have to explore the nature of warfare in general, and how it certainly isn't the sole province of the US, nor any one race, no matter how much you'd like to believe it. Hint: Tutsis

10) "Maybe what we need is more guns, more bombs, more death-rays, more heart-stoppers, more ability to kill and destroy. I mean, that's what has made the world so safe today, right?"

It would be nice to wave the magic wand, and all of it goes away, everyone is nice, and we all dance with unicorns on green fields under rainbows of living light.

Back in the real world, I can't point to a time in history that a lack of conflict has ever been the case. Can you? Please..show me the idyllic peace that existed once. No? Ok. A lot of the research comes from less-lethal weapon development. Not killing someone on the battlefield has to be better than killing them. I understand your viewpoint is that no battles should ever happen, but I can't help but feel that history and sociology points out that this is an unlikely state of affairs.

I can't really help what the Russians are doing. They're into really bad biologicals as well. But if they are over there making some sort of "heart stopper", and you have to remember that not every bit of weird research produces "death rays" even if its researching them, it might be sort of nice to know how to make it not work on YOU. But the same "heart stopper death ray" technology may also end up showing them how to repair faulty cardiac conduction systems...might it not be nice to have a non-invasive pacemaker that works better than the current implants? It's the nature of things that they can always be put to good or evil uses. Ignoring a search for knowledge altogether in order to avoid misuse is willful ignorance.


Posted by: erewhon at February 15, 2006 07:41 PM


erewhon et al,

there are two reasons it's better to use more expensive citizen control:
1. People are more willing to accept it. The world in 1984 was possible because people were willing to accept the authority. It was a system maintained by propaganda and dogma. If you challenge the system in the United States, they DO shoot you (Kent State anyone?, the weathermen, USA Communist Party, Martin Luther King, Jr, Malcolm X, etc.). They DO throw you in jail (Cindy Sheehan for chrissakes), they don't squish you with tanks, but, again, that'd be more expensive.

2. It keeps the system stable - In the Soviet Union, people hated the oppressive system and largely welcomed its demise (out of the frying pan, eh?). A system that people thinks works and is benevolent is one they're more unlikely to resist.

What possible reason could we have for invading Iraq? I mean, we invaded, didn't we? We knew they didn't have Weapons of Mass Destruction, we knew Saddam Hussein wasn't a threat, or even if he was, North Korea was scarier, or China, or Iran, or whomever.

Because our populace is so ready and willing to accept that our soldiers are fighting for "our freedom" they're also willing to accept that we're invading other countries for legitimate reasons.

the question "can it be abused" stems from the larger question "should it be built"?

I don't think it should, but maybe I'm crazy. After all, you're the professional, so no one else's opinion counts, right? I mean, if the masses are ignorant, they shouldn't be allowed to participate, right? Who needs democratic decision making?

It might be wise to use the Precautionary principle here. You yourself admit that you're a technical professional and therefore fall victim to the story of the six blind men phenomenon. What qualifications do you have to discuss the social and political implications of this kind of machine?

I don't think this kind of device gives us any sort of critical edge while it will fall into the hands of other nations (ostensibly "the enemy," but forces which, surprisingly more often than not, received arms and training from us). Add to that the incredibly high potential for abuse, and you have a recipe for disaster.

a heart-stopping ray? Let's consider putting some people in apartments, or helping developing countries create a political atmosphere where terrorism isn't encouraged.

Weapons and militarism are just an endless cycle of hate, destruction and violence. No one wins a war, no one "beats" terrorism. It's trying to do so that causes more and more of it. Osama Bin Laden doesn't hate us because we're free, he hates us because the US military maintains thousands of bases off of US soil to secure oil resources for US citizens in other parts of the world.

Tazing thousands of brown people who hate us doesn't make them hate us any less.

but who am I to say that, eh? Maybe what we need is more guns, more bombs, more death-rays, more heart-stoppers, more ability to kill and destroy. I mean, that's what has made the world so safe today, right?

Posted by: IVWW at February 15, 2006 05:41 PM


Laura, et al:

I'm not sure how it turns the world into "1984" or whatever.

I hear this fear expressed a lot from other web-sites that tend to attract semi-professional protestors, weekend "revolutionaries", embracers of fantasy mis-information, and the marginally mentally ill with paranoid delusions. To be truthful, there is also a cadre of well-meaning but non-technical people who are confused by what they read on the net, both factual and fantastic, and those few that are informed and STILL worried. That last bunch are by far the minority, but really the only ones with an informed dissenting opinion. Unfortunately, their voices are drowned out by the tin-foil hat group.

A lot of these topics are very technical and difficult to understand for those that are not fairly familiar with biology, physics, high energy optics or electrical engineering. It doesn't help that you have a lot of web-literate people that have not a clue but go pick up a copy of "The Big Book of Technical Words" at the local book store and proceed to make websites that seem to the uninformed to be authoritative.

And of course, quite a few of the "big" paranoia sites only care about the bottom line on their advertising and will intentionally remove corrective posts in order to preserve the "OMG!!!" quality of their site. Such sites, and I hesitate to name them for legal reasons, but you've probably been to at least one or two, have admins that KNOW better, but use that knowledge to make the material more scary and ominous instead of informative.

Guys like me who actually WORK directly on this stuff, or work on parts of it, or are familiar with the team that is, are sort of hamstrung. I can to some extent post corrections or comments to steer the topic back to reality, to some extent. I can't come right out and discuss in depth some projects, and some I can't comment on at all.

But I think it would be inappropriate for me to start a website that, for example, plays against the 'paranoia sites' with accurate data instead of the sensational. I am bound by NDAs and/or an overwhelming innate queasiness to come right out and discuss stuff. You see, even when stuff goes public it doesn't release me from NDA's. I've also been told very pointedly just last year (ow ow ow) that even if I'm not on a project, even if it's not worked on HERE, I'm not allowed to deduce how a system works and discuss it. And truthfully, just a whole lot of it isn't appropriate to discuss, since that government you're so afraid of (note how you can express that fear without reprisal?) is using this info to keep you safe.

So the people who actually have a clue are the very ones that have a lot of internal conflict about telling you the data you're getting are bogus. I'm probably not alone in this, Mr Shachtman has obviously done the "I'm not sure just what I can tell you, but I think I can point you to this" dance before, since he knows the steps so well.

As a side note, it's also a very difficult task to popularize this info and not have it come out either sensational, misleading, unintentionally ominous or uninformative. This site does a jam-up job of getting their data right AND making it readable. That's not easy, because if I wrote it with equations and tech references, it would be as exciting to read as watching paint dry.

Laura, it's hard to read a few lines and really know where anyone's comment is coming from, unless you've seen enough of their comments over time to form some sort of mental model for them. So I'm going to shotgun a response based on a best guess.

In my opinion, the real question is "can this be abused." Well, obviously in a broad sense, everything can be, and has been. This is a "human nature" issue and not a technical one. Since the discovery of the sharp rock, people have been using technology against other people. I don't see this ever changing. I will say that we worry a lot about it as a nation, and that constant self-examination is probably a good thing. It is a more useful thing when people are educated in the sciences, though, and this is where the problems come in.

Rocks and sharp sticks are readily understood. When you start getting into laser plasma physics, Rayleigh-Taylor instabilities at the boundaries of plasma blooms, non-linear mixing of multiple beam spectra in a bloom and so on, the people that have any idea what you're even TALKING about are damn few. Now add that to the other knowledge bases in the pot: understanding logistics of weapon systems deployment, general military tactics, group psychology of how a weapon system is perceived by an enemy, logistic support of that system, industrial engineering, ergonomics, field survivability, design for instinctive use of the system by a warfighter under pressure in the field and probably two dozen other very complex issues, you reach the point where it's impossible that any one person has an in-depth picture of every aspect of a system, even on a design team.

Now, take this complex weapon system for which not even the wonks on the design, deployment, use strategy and maintenance teams understand every detail of every aspect of the thing, AND it's still very much in research and development, and run it through the filter of the internet and the popular press.

What you have left is going to fall on very different ears. Did you ever read the poem by Saxe, "The Blind Men and the Elephant"? Every person that summarizes the data adds their own twist, then when it gets to the populace, everyone perceives it through the screen of their own life experiences and knowledge, or lack thereof. Since by far most people won't have even a CLUE about the technical aspect of it, their imaginations run wild into the land of "what-if", and you get this elephant reaction.

The system itself becomes a sort of Rorschach card, and every science illiterate person projects their inner fears onto it. What if they murder me in my sleep? What if they really know it was me under that mask with my pre-printed protest sign chanting my pre-written slogans in the name of individuality? What if those odd uncontrollable thoughts in my head are really some evil unknown agency that is beaming them into my head with mind control beams? What if the aliens from Planet Zyra object to it? What if some evil overlord from the NWO can really tell what I'm thinking about my wife, my best friend, the 12 year old girl next door?

Shortly after, the "how can I turn a buck off this" web sites start publishing versions that will probably be titled something like "Evil torture ray now in the hands of the Illuminati", which really moves the merchandise.

Laura, one of the most succinct things I can say to you is, if you're worried about evil satellites sending down death-beams from space or something, is that it's cheaper just to shoot you by about 1,000,000X. Seriously. A lot of people get into these Byzantine fantasies about how the evil bad people will creep into their homes and laser them in their sleep or something. Just keep in mind the thought: Why would anyone do that, when it's far cheaper just to shoot you? If the government was really out to get you, and totally above the law, why not just march in with flamethrowers? Napalm you? Crush you with tanks? Cut loose with Ma Deuce? Stick a soldering iron up your bum? It certainly doesn't take complex, expensive cutting edge weapon systems to do that.

Posted by: erewhon at February 15, 2006 03:49 PM


Hmm. sounds cool to me. wouldn't it be cool to make your enemies poop themselves into dehydration and cramps and such? there is a large appeal to 'die' a martyr, but who wants to be the one who pooed himself in double digits?? this will doubtless make our 'extremist' opponents much less likely to mess with us, because doing so will not get them their seventy virgins, and they will have to live in shame as the first double digit pooper.

Posted by: Bull at February 15, 2006 03:22 PM


This reminds me of a story I wrote a few years ago. Here if you're interested.

Posted by: Matt Mitchell at February 15, 2006 01:32 PM


Call me old-fashioned, but I don't really see how any of this can help anyone. Just like nuclear weapons, it would only be a matter of time before our enemies got their hands on the same technology. Before we know it, our world is going to turn into 1984. Thought Police and all. Doesn't that scare anyone?

Posted by: Laura at February 15, 2006 01:16 PM


I want one!

Posted by: Patrick at February 15, 2006 12:46 PM


This is for AD. War isn't fun or nice and I don't like being away from my family any more than the next guy, but policing the world is not what we do. Protecting the lives of those loved ones we leave behind on safe US soil is what we are doing. I want any weapon that will do that quickly and decisively, without making more people mad at us. The US IS a powerful nation and well recoginzed as such that is why the cowards attack inocent civilians rather than full on attacks on the military.

Posted by: DDD at February 15, 2006 12:39 PM


If you are really interested, and not just 'beating your jaws', why don't you just look over seattle WA, and portland OR, where somebody big, since the cops, and local FBI are acting stupid, and blind; where many young women, including fmr pres bill clinton's daughter, a blue-eyed blonde, named billie jo ford(sic), was imply blind-sided with an over dose of prozac, and then hyno-brainwashed, with force, using crack and turned into a cheap prostitute, for a giant homeless shelter organization, called the Downtown Emergency Service Center, it has is called Central City Concern, in portlandOR. Your sister, your daughter, your wife, or just a good friend, who knows who is next.

Posted by: ulis at February 15, 2006 12:06 PM


I assume you guys co-opted that graphic from one or more project presentations? It looks familiar but I'm too lazy to go looking for it.

Tom

Posted by: erewhon at February 14, 2006 06:07 PM


I haven't, no. But now you've got me all curious!

nms

Posted by: Noah Shachtman at February 14, 2006 05:51 PM


To expand on that comment (too bad there's no edit, I always want to change things at least once), I am referring to the part that bears on this article's theme. If you've read it, you'll know what I mean.

Posted by: erewhon at February 14, 2006 05:45 PM


Noah:

Have you read Ralph Peters' "War in 2020" or "Leak in 1990" as we were calling it? Yike! Now there's a fine example of someone needing to go to Leavenworth. Not Ralph, but whoever violated their NDA for him.

Tom

Posted by: erewhon at February 14, 2006 05:43 PM


To be fair to David, he referenced the PIKL (pulsed impulsive kill laser) project in his original draft of the story. I cut it out, to keep the article a manageable length.

Plus, there's some PIKL material I'm trying to fit into a magazine story that I am working on right now. I didn't want Hambling stepping on me! ;-)

nms

Posted by: Noah Shachtman at February 14, 2006 05:29 PM


So far it looks like TrustButVerify is the only other design guy out here. Defense contractor, TBV? Hi, me too.

Larry, you are in a soft focus world. 600 dB? HAHAHA. The "brown note" is a concept that's chock full of what it purports to induce. And while I'm pretty sure you can't reach 600dB in air at STP, if you could, it would kill everything for quite a distance around.

The stuff in the article is quite real. Actually, Hambling's book is not a bad start for those of you that are somewhat curious about this sort of stuff but don't know a good (reality based) book to start with. It's a trifle skimpy in places, especially the last chapter or two, as it probably should be (someone has been talking to him about stuff they shouldn't have, maybe, IMHO, in one or two places).

This PEP weapon is a derivative of an old system called PIKL. PIKL was the very first test of plasma bloom/inverse Brehmsstrahlung weaponry, and as Hambling states, some really odd and unexpected bio-effects were seen. It was at first thought just to be concussion, then a sort of mechanical oscillation at the interface (the ultrasonic bit), then it was discovered that the bloom itself radiates a mixed bag of EM which was doing the trick. Turns out you can change the beam parameters, modulation and so on and get some control over what comes out at the bloom, and didn't THAT just 'bloom' (heh) into several projects.

Anyways, the paper he quotes is in fact pretty hard to get an intact copy of outside a SCIF, but oddly enough, there are a couple of derivative devices that use the same tricks and AREN'T classified, ain't life grand. No one said security had to be consistent, just inconvenient.

Still, shaped waveform emitters and Brehmsstrahlung effect based devices are among the hot new things for this decade, lots of research to be done there. For example, if you really crank the mod rate up, you can trade bloom energy for some pretty strong RF right at the bloom-target interface. Possibly, you could use that to disable a missile in flight, not by burning a hole in it but by disrupting the electronics with a localized EMP.

Posted by: erewhon at February 14, 2006 04:56 PM


To Katsesama, The "Brown Bomb" you describe was already developed in the late 60's for riot control. They were unable at that time to get it to focus....it worked on everybody. The second D below Middle C on a piano sustained at 600 decibles or above causes the sphincter muscle to involuntarily relax. Be a great way to end a summer concert...."and now some music that will make you S***!". The thoughts at the time were to use it in conjunction with "Banana Peel", a spray that would render pavement 10 times slicker than ice.

Posted by: Larry at February 14, 2006 09:59 AM


Color me curious? i was just wondering aloud,if the plasma/microwave beam can target certain nerves or nociceptors within the target body to such adegree,what type of physiological effects could we induce?

I know,its a rather ghoulish question,aside from what i have already read in the post,would it then
be possible to say,i don't know,cause involuntary
contraction of the colin?

Stay with me here,i'm going somewhere with this.

Just think,making these fanatic hammerheads have
an unschedualed brown moment at a critical moment
in time may well spell victory over terrorism.

I'll elaborate.

How easy modern land battle could be prosecuted
when your'e enemy is too busy "unloading"as it
were,to put up any proper resistance.And all one
would need to win over their hearts and minds
would be a timely air-drop and/or convoy of crates
filled with pepto,kayo pektate,and charmin by the
ream?

yes,i am totally serious.

No enemy power in their right mind would dare
mess with us out of fear that we'd make them MESS
their drawers?

Crazy? yes,impossible,no.

it just tantalizes the imagination doe's it not?
we needn't cause undue harm, just a little undue
embarassment.Our enemies should be glad,instead
of dropping j-dams down their chimneys,we can
cause em' to drop their trousers for a little
unexpected bowel failure?

hey,it beats dying by a longshot.

and as always kiddies,remeber what uncle katsesama
says...PAIN RAY RULES.

Posted by: katsesama at February 14, 2006 01:06 AM


Ok,now think of the next generation of such weapons alongside the historical mindset of the weaponeers,the fine folk who gave us words like "megadeaths", and the implications are off the hook...

Posted by: James at February 13, 2006 11:12 PM


I never was a trekie or a huge Star Wars fan. So how about we tackle the immediate concern for us military folks and that is getting us out of the middle east. We dont need no stinking ray guns to impose non lethal harm on others. What we need a reputation of being the best country in the world that we lost some years ago.
Spend the money on the troops and lets stop policing the world.

Posted by: AD at February 13, 2006 10:19 PM


This is science fiction stuff, guys. I'll worry about this just as soon as I see the conclusion to more pressing, immediate concerns, like how will the Fantastic Four manage to stop Dr Doom's mind control satellite?

Although, count me as a willing test subject for final trials of the orgasmo-tron ray. Though I think it's a bad policy idea. Dozens of countries would declare war on us, just so we would shoot them.

Posted by: Brian at February 13, 2006 09:17 PM


"By selectively stimulating a particular nociceptor, a finely tuned PEP might sensations of say, being burned, frozen or dipped in acid -- all without doing the slightest actual harm."

I laughed at reading this sentence. How is this not harmful? Oh it may not cause permanent unrecoverable tissue damage. But it's obviously harmful. For me the litmus test is: Can it be used to torture? This technology can torture without leaving evidence! And if you think it won't be used to torture... how naive.

Posted by: robert hopt at February 13, 2006 09:04 PM


This is an area of technology I have fantasized about for at least a decade.
The ability to use our knowledge of waveforms and frequency to alter how people live.
Files from the Cold War show there is definitely a opportunity to harm to people.
In my fantasy we would use this technology to heal and help our people of this planet.
One day in Spring of 2001, on CNN there was a brief report about PEP.
I was very disappointed../\/\/\ Why isn't this being used in more positive way.
I am in the study/\field of engineering and I want to work with this technology, but not like this.
Please tell me there is somewhere out there, where they are looking at all the applications of this.

Posted by: Monday at February 13, 2006 07:57 PM


Pretty soon we will have government controlled satllites that can target 1 million people at a time and beam down laser beams on protests and paralyze everyone into submission.

This is real nice. Thanks for upholding the 2nd amendment.

If I could put up anti satellite missile batteries or store rockets and missiles I might feel a little better about having laser zapping paralysis machines in control of .gov.

Worse enough you give Law Enforcement Stun Guns to use on anyone they please for mouthing off. It's awesome that we have the first amendment. I've seen it happen all the time.

Posted by: jtw at February 13, 2006 04:07 PM


This is nice and all but I don't agree with the scientists ethics.

The general populace has been disarmed of arms. Why would they want to help the .gov develop new high tech weaponry, especially like this? I can see defensive sensory equipment, but any scientist who aids the .gov in new weaponry is someone I can't respect.

These will potentially be used for enslavement over a people who have no means to defend themselves. It's like giving China a mind control device so they can continue on their censorship and authoritarian power over their people. It might make you rich, but it's isnt moral.

I have no beef with these weapons if I could legally own and build them myself.

We are fueling our corrupt governemnt with better weapons and tools to strip our rights. Sad.

Soon as these are developed, it wil be used to take away the rest of the guns we own and we will be helpless to do anything.

Posted by: jtw at February 13, 2006 03:02 PM



Liberals may not like pain rays, but this could stimulate any senses, make a pleasure-ray instead.

Wouldn't an Orgasmotron make a cool riot weapon?

Posted by: Anklebiter at February 13, 2006 02:55 PM


Your right katsesma. Heck who cares if they can't
make this thing do what they say. We need a government that will fire microwaves at protestors. Heck, freedom of speech and the right to gather in peaceful protest is a thing of the past. We can only be free if we have one party rule. No one else in this country or any other counts. Tomorrow belongs to us.
Rich people rule. One party, one religion one
nation. Empire. Yeah.. Anyone who disagrees
is a tinhat nutcase.

Posted by: orwellian at February 13, 2006 02:40 PM


Yes, the technology's there. And yes, it will be used.

The control of this technology is the issue. The US used to have more or less one enemy at a time. Now the US government is heading toward having most of the world and around half of its own citizens as the enemy. What is to stop these people from using such weapons wherever and whenever they fell threatened?

Obvious, we can see an example of the terrible consequences of being hit by PEPs by reading katsesama's comment. Poor fella.

Posted by: ddjango at February 13, 2006 02:04 PM


Any Luddite could argue that bombs "guided" by "evil satellites is "X-files".

Posted by: Charles at February 13, 2006 01:11 PM



It may sound likes X-Files, but the ADS and PEP are real enough already, and the technology works.
If we can do crude pain stimulation now, what are the next-generation versions going to do?

"Set your phasers to 'Pack Of Enraged Pit Bulls With Steel Fangs'..."

Posted by: Wembley at February 13, 2006 12:09 PM


Oh god i love it!!! i have posted on this subject
before(A.D.S.specificly)and must say,i take no
small amount of joy out of the news about this new
technology.

why? simple,anything that can give the jihadi's a
bigger headache is great in my book.just imagine
if you will ol' jihad johnny there,standing out in the open,setting up a i.e.d. or other nasty roadside bussiness,and BAM!!!A plasma energy ray,beamed from a loitering uav,or j-stars,or orbiting sattelite causes our fanatical friend to start dancing around like some spastic marrionette too busy screaming and writhing around in misery
to bother to complete his fiendish work.That alone
would make this tech worth it,just to keep these
little barbarians on their toes.

Of course, our friends on the left will no doubt
be posting about all this with all the bush hating
vitriole they can muster.The usual litany of how
this tech will inevitably be turned on americans
(READ liberal Democrats who don't agree with bush)
to them i say,relax.Your party,the socialist..uh,
correction,Democratic party,feckless and ineffect-
ual as it is probably won't be in existance as a
effective national political body in the future
for this tech to be turned on anyway.So let not
your heart be troubled.Fantasies about republican
empire are just that,fantasy.

Where i johnny jihad however,i would be scanning
the skies with nervous eye's.

PAIN RAY RULES!!!!

Posted by: katsesama at February 13, 2006 11:35 AM


This sort of stuff is so speculative that I'm leery of making statements aobut it- it leaves me with a feeling of vague unease akin the moment in a dream just before you realize you forgot to wear your pants to the formal dinner.
Still- I confess that I'm uncertain where we will go with this sort of thing. I think it will hinge on how well ADS performs in Iraq, but even if that hurdle is cleared we're likely to hear screaming from the Tinhat, Treehugger & Sons whenever these weapons are discussed. (It is a given that we'll hear such complaints no matter WHAT we do, of course.)
The next mustard gas? That's an interesting one. Speaking for my own opinion, I dislike chemical weapons for a few reasons- first, their indiscriminate nature combines with their nasty effects to push collateral (civilian) casualties beyond what is acceptable; second, the tendency of persistient agents to despoil the landscape for decades after their use. Consider the case of a Belgian farmer burned by mustard gas absorbed by a tree he cut down, for insance.
In the case of microwave weapons, I see a possibility of the first but not of the second. I recall that peace activists were worried by the fact that precision attacks in Desert Storm had not produced the sort of large-scale destruction they "preferred" to see; perhaps these efforts will produce a similar backlash- "they're too clean, people might not be afraid to use them!"

Posted by: TrustButVerify at February 13, 2006 11:17 AM


Sounds like conspiracy, or something ripped out of X-files. We just had another day of posting about weather control, and now we are having beams creating illusions. Give me a break. When did Defense Tech start going after X-file like stuff that might appear on Debka files, or some other type of B-class Gossip source.

Posted by: pedestrian at February 13, 2006 10:03 AM


We could have the next mustard gas on our hands. Huzzay!

Posted by: Charles at February 13, 2006 09:58 AM


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