Subscribe via RSS

Archives by Date
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008

See all Archives
Archives by Category
'Canes
Afghan Update
Ammo and Munitions
Armor
Around the Globe
Av Week Extra
Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
Bizarro
Blimps
Blog Bidness
Body Armor Blues
Bomb Squad
Brownshoes in Action
Bubbleheads, etc.
Cammo Green
Catch the "Buzz"
Chem-Bio
Civilian Apps
Cloak and Dagger
Commandos
Comms
Contingency Ops
Cops and Robbers
Cyber-warfare
Data Diving
Defense Tech Poll
Dissent Tech
Door Kickers
Drones
DT Administrivia
Eat DT's Dust
Extra! Extra!
Eye on China
Fast Movers
FCS Watch
Fire for Effect
FOS Files
Friday Funnies
Gadgets and Gear
Going Green
Grand Ole Osprey
Ground Vehicles
Guns
Homeland Security
In the Weeds with Eric
Info War
Iraq Diary
Jarhead Jazz
JSF Watch
Just War Theories
Lasers and Ray Guns
Less-lethal
Logistics
Los Alamos and Labs
M4 Monopoly
Medic!
Mercs
Missiles
Money Money Money
Most Wanted
MRAP Edge
Net-Centric
Nukes
Old Skool
Our Shrinking Planet
Planes, Copters, Blimps
Politricks
Polmar's Perspective
Popular Mechanics
Rapid Fire
Raptor Watch
Red Team
Retro-Futuro
Robots
Roll Your Own
Sabra Tech
Ships and Subs
Snipertech
Space
Special Ops
Star Wars
Strategery
Stray Trons
Tactical Development
Terror Tech
The Deadlies
The Defense Biz
The Peoples' Site
The Sunday Paper
The Tanker Tango
The View from Av Week
Those Nutty Norks
Training and Sims
Trimble on the Case
Video Lounge
War Update
Ward'z Wonderz
You can run...

See all Archives
Newsletters

Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Axe Meets the Space Marines

Axe is in Lebanon. So he's not around to give his Pop Sci cover story, "Semper Fly," a proper shout-out. Allow me.

spacemarines_ss_1.jpgThe Marines have typically been the American military's emergency fighter, its "911 force," the guys you want to get to a trouble zone, ASAP. But these days, getting overflight rights and managing logistics right can slow things to a crawl. So a bunch of waaaay out-of-the-box-thinkin' Marines have come up with an almost insanely ambitious new plan: send squads through space, instead. The concept is called "Small Unit Space Transport and Insertion," or SUSTAIN.

Each Sustain lander is intended to hold a squad of 13 Marines. Mounted on wedge-shaped carrier aircraft, the lander would detach, climb, and accelerate with scramjet engines to 100,000 feet and then fire rocket engines to get above 50 miles, following an arc over hostile countries. Composite shields would absorb or deflect the searing heat of reentry as the vehicles angle for the landing zone.

Lafontant arrived at this Space Marines vision after years of analyzing military space needs. A 44-year-old Queens, New York, native who joined the Corps in 1984 as an infantry officer and progressed through Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, where he studied space systems operations and joined the small fraternity of Marine Space Operations Officers. In 2001 he took a job in the Pentagon working for the National Reconnaissance Office. He was serving as liaison to the Joint Chiefs of Staff in November 2001 when the Marine Corps launched its deepest air assault ever.

Five hundred Marines from the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit prepared to fly 441 miles through the mountains of northern Pakistan in CH-53E Sea Stallion helicopters to capture an airstrip near Kandahar, Afghanistan. It was to be the beginning of the first large offensive against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. If all went well, the Marines expected to walk away with Osama bin Laden.

But political considerations sabotaged the mission. For weeks, the Marines had bobbed on the Indian Ocean aboard two assault ships while State Department officials negotiated with Pakistan for the right to fly through the country’s airspace. Pakistan granted access only after winning economic and military concessions that, some say, have reinforced a repressive regime. When U.S. troops finally touched down on November 25, bin Laden’s trail was cold. “We ended up selling our soul to the devil to get through,” Lafontant says. He grew determined to find a way around that sort of diplomatic entanglement. “What if we don’t have to have anybody’s permission?” he asked himself. “What if we just go above and drop in?”

Now, David just loves this idea. But he knows it's pretty damn far-fetched. He does a good job at laying out the obstacles to making SUSTAIN happen. Not just the extremely high technical hurdles; the Marines' total and utter lack of funds for the project, too. He warps up his story on a balanced note:

Whether or not Sustain ever makes it past the concept stage, it’s clear that military planners are looking to increase the mobility of American forces. A Marine space transport — one that would reduce politically charged bureaucratic delays and the potential for mission snafus — might sound impossible, but to Lafontant and others entrusted with imagining the future of war, it is simply the next logical step.

Comments

Why not just have the Army do it? If I'm not mistaken, the Air Force is working on a hypersonic vehicle named the Falcon, that promises to strike anywhere in the world in two hours, and this from a state side air field no less. Insertion from an air field sounds like a role more befitting outfits like the 101st and 82nd airborne.

Just my two cents.

Posted by: Robdog at May 1, 2008 06:37 PM


Nice concept.
Instead of developing SUSTAIN (Something that could work in 20-30 years from now).
I propose that the concept posted by "Campbell", that of a airship developed to achieve the same goals as SUSTAIN is more realistic and possibly available to be used by the man and women that are risking their lives and sanity in the fucking sandbox (Pardon my french).

Posted by: Helder at February 22, 2008 03:14 PM


Great way to move the Marines tomorrow.
Aside sub to the shoreline submerged.
Best bets for Team Units only.
Must fund SUSTAIN.
Nice.

Posted by: stephen russell at December 29, 2007 06:02 PM


Drop Marines from space, awesome.
Practical? no.
Possible? you better believe.

The fact is that Marines are water based, if a country is bordered by a sea, the Marines can and will attack, but attacking a landlocked country is kinda new to the Corps and they are just brainstorming ways to get around enemy/neutral(bs) countries that refuse to give fly through rights. Thats why the Marines attacked Iraq before the Army, I believe it was a problem with Turkey. Off the wall ideas lead to inovative techniques that will shape the Corps for years to come.

Posted by: Brian Cline at April 15, 2007 09:42 AM


Even thought I am not old enough to get into the Marines yet, I would be willing to be in a squad like that. I think that would be a wonderful way to transport squads. You also get to go into space, somthing that would be so sweet. And props to who ever made the picture of the moon base, it really caught my eye.

Posted by: joe at December 30, 2006 12:17 AM


General Wallace M. Greene, of course, in September 1963. He made the comment in the White House, where he had just been nominated by JFK to be the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Thanks for the prod in the right direction Mr. Weintz.

General Greene may have been way off on this one as he thought it might be done in 20 years. But his reasoning was that it would be cheaper than maintaining foreign bases and floating warehouses. Perhaps in 50 or 100 years when launch costs are cheaper that will be true.

But Greene was not a nut. During the same time frame he advanced the concept of infantrymen using a GPS-type satellite for navigation. He also predicted that ground troops would use lasers and other techniques to direct precision airstrikes on enemy positions.

General Greene was a descendant of Revolutionary War hero Nathaniel Greene of Vermont.

mike

Posted by: mike at December 23, 2006 02:21 PM


As mentioned, this idea is not new...check out Douglas Bono's 1964 concept for a ballistic troop transport:

http://www.abo.fi/~mlindroo/SpaceLVs/Slides/sld013.htm

"The smaller ”Ithacus Jr.” version depicted above [sic] would have had an intercontinental cargo capability of 33.5t or 260 soldiers. Douglas proposed to launch two Ithacus Jr. vehicles from an Enterprise-class nuclear aircraft carrier, which also would have produced liquid oxygen and hydrogen propellant from seawater. Power for the electrolysis process would have been taken from the carrier’s nuclear reactor: 112MW would have been required to produce 1150t of oxygen and 164t of hydrogen from 1470t of water. The rocketships would be stored inside hangars. One Ithacus Jr. would serve as a troop carrier while the other would deploy unmanned cargo to the same military site."
-- Marcus Lindroos

Now, how a 100-ton reentry vehicle loaded with propellant, troops and munitions could enter hostile aerospace without a bad day is left to the reader. However, at least the vehicle concept was thought through and the VTOL concept obviates the need for prepared LZs.

Posted by: Steve Weintz at December 20, 2006 09:56 AM


Doesn't it seem like an operation involving SUSTAIN would bear similarities to the allied use of glider-borne troops in WW2?

Posted by: myarrow at December 20, 2006 01:03 AM


This is not a new idea. It was proposed as a strawman over fifty years ago by a Marine general. I forget his name but will research it and get back to you.

He did not propose it as something that could be done then or could even be done in fifty or a hundred years. He mentioned it as just one item in a laundry list of many in an attempt to get officers thinking about how to conduct warfare in a future that would have different restraints than in the 20th century.

You may be able to get the original article from the archives of the Marine Corps Gazette.

mike

Posted by: mike at December 19, 2006 08:59 PM


When I read things like this I can't help but to think that the DOD has become a bunch of imaginative children who have lost touch with reality.

There is a war on, one that is not going well, and is said to be of vital importance.

Someone needs to be slapped in the face Bogart style and told: "We don't have time for this!".

Posted by: Daverino at December 19, 2006 07:46 PM


Two huge issues:
1)Size of vehicle (I assume that -- if one wants to go through the trouble and expense of sending Marines through space, you'd want to send a bunch in several large craft).
2)Method of landing.

For 1), A large hypersonic-speed craft has never been developed. Someone mentioned Rutan's success, and perhaps Virgin Atlantic's larger version might do the trick, except: It has no useable hypersonic range to speak of.

For 2), landing an aircraft-like vehicle from hypersonic speed to a likely landing speed is out of the question, because you really need to have very short landing distances in unpredictable terrain. Something like the DC-X (VTOL) that Blue Origins is emulating would be the best bet, but would have to be large.

Another option is paraglider technology combined with brief rocket breaking. You would definitely want major air support for any of these schemes, because the weight penalties for self-defense on any of these approaches would be prohibitive payload-wise.

Posted by: Roderick Reilly at December 19, 2006 05:00 PM


May be it's just me or did they copy that Marines from aliens?
http://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-Technical-Manual/dp/0061053430

Posted by: Wolcott at December 19, 2006 02:54 PM


What a great idea! Develop a mini-space shuttle that will cost what, tens of millions of dollars so that we can transport ONE SQUAD of Marines into combat. BRILLIANT!

Or we could just tell the Paki government to shove the request to use their airspace up their ass and just fly through. Come on Marines. You've done better with the ad hoc solutions than the star wars concepts.

Posted by: Jason at December 19, 2006 02:33 PM


The fundamental tech problems of launching a small reusable glide-to-landing spacecraft were demonstably solved when Burt Rutan's SpaceShipOne secured the Ansari X-Prize: http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/

Presumably this design can be scaled up to suit the mission described. I'm not a military guy so I don't know how you'll get the troops back out, given the initial constraints, but the tech aspect of this seems readily within the military's grasp.

Posted by: empiricist at December 19, 2006 02:29 PM


> Posted by: Robot.Economist
> A few questions that I hope David or someone else could answer:
> 1) How do the Marines intend on refeuling these supersonic space crotch-rockets
> once they to their destination? Or will the SUSTAIN aircraft (spacecraft?) carry
>enough fuel to get there and back?
> 2) How are the Marines proposing to get SUSTAIN home once it lands on foreign soil
> and its squad gets the job done?


From a briefing they gave the Air Force I downloaded ( USAFSUSTAINBrief.ppt ) that varies. In some configurations they use small expendable craft, or ones that can be picked up later by helos or a snag lift by a C-17. Other bigger craft carry enough jet or rocket fuel for a short hop out to friendly territory or a aircraft carrior.
> 3) SUSTAIN can probably fly over hostile territory with few problems, but can it land
> in hostile territory without air support?

Well you could launch air support the same way, or just count on the surprise factor when you show up in the middle of someone’s territory, and land before they can scramble a response.

Its been my experience that Marines usually like overly aggressive assaults. So perhaps a Marines answer would be “concur the country, and build a airport for the Air Force to come get you.

;)

> I'm a huge "Starship Troopers" fan (the movie less so than the book), but hasn't Iraq
>taught us that the "transformed" military is stuck moving at the speed of its logistics tail?
Still they did place small groups all over Iraq before the main force ever crossed the border. This would certainly open a lot of options. Course you could say that about helicopters, but it took a lot of work to get from the bug like frame with bubble canopy 2 place early craft, to Blackhawk’s and Apaches.

Posted by: Kelly Starks at December 19, 2006 02:02 PM


my oops. Popular Science

Posted by: campbell at December 19, 2006 01:31 PM


oh my. this Nam era Marine says....'svaporware supreme

a squad? a squad? just how many of these super duper space transports are supposed to be needed to accomplish ANYTHING? lesseee, now, we got how many Marines in the mideast muddle right now? and some magic space SQUAD is going to do.....what, exactly?

'n yeah, what about support for these poor souls? or supply? or return?

it's bull.

Now, if DARPA would just update and improve upon ol WALRUS airship idea, to create large RIGID SHELLED, AMPHIBIOUS, 300 ton, 200mph, armed,solar/jet powered, surviellance/com/sensor/transport....AIRSHIPS....

ya'll might consider: linger time of weeks over any area...easy unrefueled intercontinental range....no immideate overflight permission? airships can take weeks long circuitous route...most persons carried thus far in history..207, and that 70 years ago, nothing to upgrade that to 500......airships' hull big enough for solar power....properly built out of rigid carbon fiber materials can be built to carry several hundred tons (DARPA Walrus took to high a rung on payload)...huge airships hull is support for huge sensor capabilities as well

(dont bother commenting with easy-to-shoot-down nonsense)

saw the Pop Mech article. cute pictures though

Posted by: campbell at December 19, 2006 01:30 PM


Love the concept. Its never going to happen.
I have a great idea, an airplane that lands and takes off like a helicopter! Right. It only took a decade and nearly got cut a thousand times before the Osrey became operational.
Look at the Dragon skin armor and the reception it has gotten.
Kelly johnson is spinning in his grave.

Posted by: Dennis at December 19, 2006 01:30 PM


A few questions that I hope David or someone else could answer:

1) How do the Marines intend on refeuling these supersonic space crotch-rockets once they to their destination? Or will the SUSTAIN aircraft (spacecraft?) carry enough fuel to get there and back?

2) How are the Marines proposing to get SUSTAIN home once it lands on foreign soil and its squad gets the job done?

3) SUSTAIN can probably fly over hostile territory with few problems, but can it land in hostile territory without air support?

I'm a huge "Starship Troopers" fan (the movie less so than the book), but hasn't Iraq taught us that the "transformed" military is stuck moving at the speed of its logistics tail?

Posted by: Robot.Economist at December 19, 2006 12:51 PM


Post a comment




Remember Me?


Please enter the code as seen in the image below to post your comment.