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While I share in the displeasure over incidents involving civillian casualties, such happenings cannot be assumed to occur ("For every newsworthy incident, many more go unmentioned") without a shit-load more evidence than the opening poster provided. I, both from expierience and from reliable media sources on the matter, have not seen anything to suggest that this is anything other than an anti-war media orgy over a set of isolated incidents.
Posted by: Teufelhunden at September 29, 2007 04:20 PM
this issue reminds me of the Sci-fi/Cyberpunk Corpoate armies, mercenary companies (Drakes "Hammers Slammers").the biggest threat might be that some richy rich fellow can "Buy himself" a whole army, armed to the teeth with expert trainning, lots of gizmos, and now try to beat him....
Posted by: Muzyk at September 20, 2007 12:19 PM
Having served in the U.S.Military(several combat tours),as well as a Law Enforcement Officer,and currently serving/working as a armed overseas contractor(Iraq),I find several of the comments baseless at least,ignorant at most(Melior and Culloden,come to mind).The guy's I work with currently,and have worked with in the past,are all former military,and a few LE(we've all served our country,I haven't run into any"former security guards").They are for the most part quiet,efficent professionals,doing a damn good job.Our relationship with the troops that we have daily contact with,is good.Now here is the facts,we provide a service,that can't be done by the military...there just is not enough of them(and that is not going to change...period).The ones that are here(and in Afghanistan,PI,etc.),have got plenty to keep em busy,and can't be expected to protect every convoy,VIP,civil engineer,reporter,etc(to many to name).This is not,and never again will be the military of WWII/post WWII,that was able to put Japan and Germany back on their feet(never going to be that big,ever again).Big business is the one that does the rebuilding now(even did it back during the late 40's and 50's)...And contractors are needed to protect them,and we are able to do it far more efficently,and much cheaper(and yes we still make more money)...Besides the money,yeah alot of us still see it as service,to each his own...Like any other group(any group),there are a few knobs/bad apples(company/guy's around them handle that issue).But fine if a form of regulation comes down,we will just deal with it.If it becomes too stupid,then we'll just move on,and those in charge can try to duct tape it together...One other thing,Melior and Culloden and anybody else,say what you want,call us what you want,you have that right(blood's been shed for that right,some of it mine),and personally I don't really care.And to most of us,whether in or out of uniform(especially us over here)it sounds like alot of whining and sniveling,by a couple of oxygen thieves
Posted by: Matt at February 21, 2007 08:16 PM
Would anyone know what companies have a private military?
Posted by: Miek at January 19, 2007 08:50 AM
Well... Interesting, if not entertaining commentary all around. A few thoughts...
Dr. Singer should be credited with bringing the subject of private ontractors to the fore with his 2003 book, "Corporate Warriors" which I believe was his thesis project while at the Belfer Center at Harvard. While mostly accurate, the book offers some subjective opinions and is now somewhat dated given the changes in the industry. That, when combined with all of Dr. Singer's writings seem to demonstrate that he is positioning himself for a political appointment in a Democratic administration. I am not sure Dr. Singer has even been to Iraq or Afghanistan and seen current private contractor operations. Things have changed since he visited Bosnia some ten years ago.
As to the merits of the change in the UCMJ. Slick move on the part of Senators Graham and Kerry, but it is still unclear as to whether the change will survive a challenge to the existing US v. Avarette ruling. Having said that, there are more subtle challenges here that directly affect the men and women serving as private contractors. Will the change in the UCMJ apply to private contractors not working for the DoD, or does it extend, as MEJA does, to anyone supporting a DoD mission? What defines a DoD mission and does a DoD mission supercede a DoS or USAID mission? Additionally, if the UCMJ has been expanded to cover private contractors and embedded reporters, will it also apply to other USG civilians serving in the same area? If MEJA and other domestic and international legal instruments are good enough for USG civilians, why isn't it good enough for private contractors and embeds? Lastly, if a private contractor is working on a contract that originates from another USG agency and in the proper execution of that contract somehow violates the UCMJ, does the Code still apply? Does the current institutional bias between some active duty professionals and private contractors preclude a private contractor from receiving fair and impartial treatment? Can the local commander issue a non-judicial punishment in lieu of a court-martial? Can a private contractor be charged with adultery, disrespect to a commissioned officer, etc.? The list of questions goes on and on. In my mind, one of the most important questions to ask is whether or not the JAGs in each service were consulted to see if they were ready and willing to take on the added case-load that would ensue?
There will no doubt be numerous challenges to this change, which seems to be more of a political maneuver rather than a serious solution to ensuring accountability for anyone working at the behest of the USG. To date, there has still not been an clear and direct discussion between the private contractor industry and the government to establish ground-truth from folklore. That seems to be the most logical point of departure. It would certainly prevent political posturing and bureaucratic bumbling in dealing with a serious challenge.
Posted by: IlliberalDemocracy at January 13, 2007 09:32 PM
lets talk about facts
i serve in the army for 12yr got recruited for the LAR program the last 5yrs A (DOD) department of defense and Department of the army (DAC)tech assist program (not a contractor);but a GS) i HAVE to wear army uniform and authorize to carry a weapon (9mm)base on the theater commander)approval. The fact is the us military want the its cake and eat it too, force 21 modernization technology and draw down as spoil the US military, they have stop training the troops and have made them more depended on civilian work force to fill the gap;weather contractual or department of defense employee, the fact is US army have a number of arm contractor running around with guns, fact: when any dignitary come over to the green zone they uses a mercenaries(i am sorry arm contractors to pull embassies security for personnel from point A to B in the green zone not using our high-speed HMMV but a south African Armor vehicle).. the US army allow haliburton to setup arm convoy and allow them to run between FOB, because the US army had limited troops in theater. the US had hunter teams in (silence death) Afghanistan because of limited troops. the fact is us arm forces can not operate without civilian work force because of the presence size and the power of the company defense contractor.the thing will happen is the new LAW will force some of the brightest to stay at home, believe it or not a lot government DOD AND DAC are not VOLUNTEER but are place on orders and only serve six months and do not get tax break even if we stay here for a yr because of the law..
Posted by: colin christie at January 12, 2007 12:39 PM
Posted by: Keith Gosney at January 4, 2007 05:08 PM
"If the reader can get to the last paragraph of this poorly written article ie: syntax and grammer, the author states that Hollywood should be the model of our govement;"
Physician, heal thyself.
Since you probably have no clue what I meant, Mr Gosney, try this: If you are going to criticize someone's post for how it's written, be damned sure you know how to spell, how to use grammar, how to use punctuation, and how to write.
Anyone want to start a pool for how many errors will be in the frothing-at-the-mouth reply he'll post to this? :-)
Posted by: Jeff at January 9, 2007 08:50 AM
Civilian contractors are being hired to do jobs that the military can't do because of the reduction in the force since the draw down of the mid-90's. We are also cheaper (no insurance, no retirement, etc) Therefore we should have the same rights and obligations and follow the same ROE's as the military. The Military did give me authority to carry a weapon and I took that responsibility seriously just as I did when I was in uniform. We have a right of self defense when in harm's way doing a job the military did in the past when we had over 1/2 million soldiers.
Posted by: urtatoo at January 7, 2007 10:34 PM
Although I share Peter’s general enthusiasm for the subject matter (and, as a native of Los Angeles, I even enjoyed his nearly obsessive references to the motion picture industry), I am concerned about his analysis and preference for regulation in respect of litigation against individual accused wrongdoers under the UCMJ. For a variety of reasons, the conflation of military and civilian law is problematic, whether it is in regard to so-called unlawful combatants or persons (US nationals or others) working for PMC/PSC’s in conflict zones. Peter’s analysis is anecdotal and incomplete and mistakenly entangles contract, penal, constitutional, and international law. Moreover, the attention to individual penal responsibility, though alluring in its ability to address acts of individual misconduct, obviously avoids the policy, normative, and larger legal questions surrounding the very nature and employment of such firms in conflict zones.
Posted by: Andy Michels at January 7, 2007 06:01 PM
Funny, when I was younger I had the potental to get drafeted. Now its all vollenter, Hum, funny, What it comes down to is that some, but not all have a problem with us making a living to support our families!! The same reason most you the enlisted are doning what there are doing, I love you guys. I am one of you guys, I am old enough to be your father and I am still doing it. Hum, guess what, I do it because I love you guys and wish I was 20 years younger, the good new is that I am here for you just like you are here for all the families at home. You Keep them safe and I am your humble assistant to do the same!
Semper Fi!!
Go Eagles
Posted by: David D From Philly at January 7, 2007 12:38 PM
No matter how much a mercenary blusters and sadly performs a macho typefest - the fact remains a civilian carrying a weapon in a war zone is a mercenary at best - a terrorist at worse.
These "contractors" are not working for the United States of America, are not sworn to defend the Constitution, and are not in uniform. They are men that have voluntarily taken money to kill people at the behest of a civilian corporation.
They may attempt to rationalize that in whatever way it takes to settle their soul. But the reality won't change.
God hope they are never caught by bad guys, in any conflict, running around a battlefield with a gun and no uniform nor any displayed symbol of allegiance.
They deserve pity but little else.
Posted by: KragCulloden at January 7, 2007 12:19 PM
To The Former USMC Sgt,
Sir,
If you knew how many times your Marine brothers have come to me to give the Comms, telephone, internet and C2C you wouldn't say what you say. . I have been running around in these AO's half blind in one eye and on one kindney. Things that you have been sent home for a long time ago. Face it Marine... As much as you don't like it We are here to stay and I have personaly saved several Marines from getting fragged in Falluga. I love you guys, We need to work together. God bless all of our fighting men and women! If you have a problem please ask the former CSM of the 10th Mountain Div, the CSM of the 101Am and the CO of the HMH 461st USMC about me. Numnuts. Tell the Dave D from Philly and they will tell you whats shaken. By the way I am 46 Playing your game!!!!!!
Dave D, South Philly
Posted by: David D From Philly at January 7, 2007 11:58 AM
Amazing the concern over a inconsequential change without addressing hat has always existed under the Laws of War and jurisdiction of a military court martial to try civilians in certain situations and circumstances. It further amazes me such attention is being given to such a inconsequential change without and mention being made of Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. Personally, if I was a contracted mercenary, privateer, or whatever you want to call a gun for hire, I’d rather take my chances of a fair trail in a U.S. military court martial than I would in an International Criminal Court.
Link to Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/romefra.htm
Link to MANUAL FOR COURTS-MARTIAL UNITED STATES (2005 EDITION) http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/mcm.pdf
The following is cut and paste from MANUAL FOR COURTS-MARTIAL UNITED STATES (2005 EDITION).
In addition to the power to try persons for offenses under the code, general courts-martial have power to try certain persons for violations of the law of war and for crimes or offenses against the law of the territory occupied as an incident of war or belligerency whenever the local civil authority is superseded in whole or part by the military authority of the occupying power. See R.C.M.
201(f)(1)(B). In cases where a person is tried by general courtmartial for offenses against the law of an occupied territory, the
court-martial normally sits in the country where the offense is committed, and must do so under certain circumstances. See Articles
4, 64, and 66, Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949, arts. 4, 64, and 66, 6 U.S.T. 3516, 3559-60 T.I.A.S. No. 3365
Rule 202. Persons subject to the jurisdiction of courts-martial
(1) Authority under the code. Article 2 lists classes of persons who are subject to the code. These include active duty personnel (Article 2(a)(1)); cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipmen (Article 2(a)(2)); certain retired personnel (Article 2(a)(4) and (5)); members of Reserve components not on active duty under some circumstances (Article 2(a)(3) and (6)); persons in the custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by courtmartial (Article 2(a)(7)); and, under some circumstances, specified categories of civilians (Article 2(a)(8), (9), (10), (11), and (12); see subsection (3) and (4) of this discussion).
(b) Offenses under the law of war. Nothing in this rule limits the power of general courts-martial to try persons under the law of war. See R.C.M. 201(f)(1)(B).
201(f)(1)(B) Cases under the law of war.
(i) General courts-martial may try any person who by the law of war is subject to trial by military tribunal for any crime or offense against:
(a) The law of war; or
(b) The law of the territory occupied as an incident of war or belligerency whenever the local civil authority is superseded in whole or part by the military authority of the occupying power. The law of the occupied territory includes the local criminal law as adopted or modified by competent authority, and the proclamations, ordinances, regulations, or orders promulgated by competent authority of the occupying power.
…
(ii) When a general court-martial exercises jurisdiction under the law of war, it may adjudge any punishment permitted by the law of war.
Posted by: Johca at January 7, 2007 11:55 AM
Yo,
I have been down range since 2/2003 building Commo nets for the war fighter. I am prior Service and have been from the Horn of Africa, Afganistan and Iraq. I am here because I love my country and I believe in taking the fight to the bad guys. Are there Idiots working as contractors? Yes, just like there are idiots in jornalisim. Are there mistakes made? Sure, just like every other profession. I have been embeded with the Iraqi Army for a year now and get this, I carry an AK and use it when I have to. By the way numnuts You only get 82,500K tax free. So much for you doing your homework.
Are the problems yeah, but guess what, because congress put a limit on the number of Military trigger pullers we are needed on this wall and we are wanted on this wall and we do an excellant job overall. Do we need to be accountible? Yes, and guess what we are more so than the war fighter at times.
Remmeber this, we are here because we are needed, we are good at what we do and we support the war fighter. I bet you are a Democrat! The good news for you is Nancy is in town.
Yes accountability is needed and can be better but take it easy on guys who have been getting shot at with the war fighter, we are all Americans and most of us are here because we believe in what we are doing.....
Get your facts right. NUMNUTS
Hoohaa
Posted by: David D From Philly at January 7, 2007 10:33 AM
As an aside, I think there is a basic issue that bothers many folks regarding the armed "contractors" in Iraq. A civilian hired by a corporation to carry a weapon in a war zone is a mercenary - someone who fights not for nationality or principles, but for personal gain only. To most Americans I know, that is repulsive.
It can be fancied up a lot, but these guys are just mercenaries, and mercenary is not a respectable profession to most. In my mind, a mercenary is worse than the enemy, because they fight for no cause except their paycheck. Their loyalty is to the corporation, not the country.
A mercenary takes all that is good about a soldier and perverts it into an ugly mirror image. There is no respect in being a mercenary precisely because of the money being made.
A nation's warriors are respected because they *don't* get rich, they don't live in luxury, and yet they still risk their life in service to their nation and fellow soldier. None of that applies to a mercenary.
The former military men that have turned mercenary have sold their soul in my opinion. I pity them.
Krag
former Sgt, USMC
Posted by: KragCulloden at January 7, 2007 04:59 AM
If the US dosen"t req the UN courts when it comes to their troops. Why do they think if they start the conflict the can Judge Hmm sounds like I want my cake and eat it to.
Boys you doing a great job. GET ER DONE. WATCH YOU CORNERS
Posted by: Chris Crane at January 6, 2007 06:34 AM
Yo Mike, you're getting mighty close to fever swamps truther territory here. You might want to put down the crack pipe and take a walk around the block and get some fresh air.
The Military contractors will never be dealt with because those companies are run by the same men who run the Federal Reserve and reap the profits of America. And don't expect the media to digging around, this is a kosher affair.
Posted by: Mike at January 5, 2007 10:05 PM
Thanks for this, news like this would NEVER make the majors.......
Posted by: Joe at January 5, 2007 07:16 PM
Thanks to all for the active responses to the article. It's been entertaining to say the least. But more importantly, the reception from troops and officers on this and others has been heartening. I certainly won’t try to answer to them all, but thought it important to inject a few facts into the discussion, mainly to refute a few of the most insane/stupid posts:
** This is all part of some partisan "DNC" agenda, "anti-miiltary," "liberal bullshit" out to get contractors and help Al Qeada.**
Yep, you caught us. Darn. Only one problem: The clause was put in by Senator Lindsay Graham. Graham is a REPUBLICAN and also a reserve JAG officer.
**This is made up, with the prove being that Abu Ghraib didn't have contractors there. **
Since I am somehow a lying al Qaeda supporter, let's instead use the
reports by US Army Generals Taguba, Fay, and Jones. They found that serving at Abu Ghraib with the unit you slur were contractors from the Titan firm (doing interpretation) and CACI firm (doing interrogation). They found that 100% of the interpreters and up to 50% of the interrogators (the percentage depends on the time as the exact number changed) were contractors. This is not even denied by the firms themselves. See for example, "CACI chief defends company's interrogation work," Government Executive Magazine, September 2, 2004, where the CEO of CACI says he had 19 guys there. This was also testified to in Congress. In his report on Abu Ghraib, General Taguba found that 16 of the 44 incidents of identified abuse involved contractors and referred 6 for potential prosecution. Among the worst offenders the reports name were "Civilian 11" and "Civilian 21," both contractors. To make it even more interesting, General Fay states "Approximately 35% of the contract interrogators lacked formal military training as interrogators." The Army's inspector general, concurred and found on July 21, 2004 that a third of contract interrogators at Abu Ghraib "had not received formal training in military interrogation techniques, policy, and doctrine." In no where did I say that soldiers weren't also part of Abu Ghraib. Also, for general interest, the FBI just cited contractors in abuses at Gitmo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/03/AR2007010301759.html
**I am either making it all up or I was lied to by a US Army officer on contractor misconduct.**
Since I am a lying al Qaeda supporter and US Army officers are also liars as well to you, so what would convince you? Perhaps from contractors themselves? How about the sworn testimony by two Triple Canopy guys, on their supervisor saying "I've never shot anyone with my pistol before." and then plugging a taxi cab driver on the way back to base. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/16/AR2006111601615_pf.html.
If you want to go tit for tat on this area, here, please do. There is absolutely no way you will win the argument that incidents of contractor misconduct have never happened in Iraq. But go back and read. The point isn't that all contractors are bad. As I wrote “the vast majority of private military employees are upstanding men and women -- and mostly former soldiers, to boot.� Rather, its when these episodes of bad apples in the past have happened, they were never tried.
**I should get my GED as I don't know anything about Halliburton/LOGCAP.**
Again with the namecalling. And what an odd slam. Somehow, it is better to be a high school dropout than go get your degree? Weird. In either case, the fact is that my PhD dissertation at Harvard was on the industry with a case study of LOGCAP and Halliburton. It is now taught at places ranging from National Defense University to Yale Law School. I think its pretty good, and thus really appreciate slams that allow me to plug it, but then again I am a biased Bin Laden employee apparently, so judge by the reviews instead http://www.pwsinger.com/books_corporate.html. Also, you have it wrong. The key in the testimony was the odd claim that it also held for all Halliburton subcontractors, which is where I put it in my article that is "essentially the whole industry." As the rollover link to the Raleigh News and Observer story in that very section shows, this opens a bigger question as to the authorization for all the other contracts you identify as being armed, such as Blackwater's contract (which was a sub to Halliburton if you follow the chain down) that led to the tragedy at Falluja.
**The shift to UCMJ is only bad news for contractors.**
Actually, under previous murky status, a few contractors have been treated like unlawful combatants and detained in ways that shouldn't happen ( some would point here to theZapata situation or the recent news story on contractor Donald Vance held for some 90 days in Bagdad, despite working for FBI). And that was by our guys. Legally, contractors were also in murky situation if captured as POWs by other side. not so much an issue with AQ, who would likely justbehead and save the paperwork. But say in a conflict with China, contractors caught in such roles could be sent to their version of Gitmo (maybe some converted casino in Macau). Its sounds bizarre, and its not something that the firms tell their guys, but that's what the military lawyers have worried about for years. Clarifying that contractors fall under UCMJ, could also clarify status and treatment when in custody, giving legal protections that haven't been there before. Again, though, it all depends on interpretation.
**The implementation will be impossible as UCMJ covers much more than civilian life.**
It's a very good question. UCMJ covers far more than just felony offenses and technically now contractors potentially fall under it as well in such operations. A big key, as I wrote, is how far down that line of coverage extends, if you go beyond the old MEJA standard. Example: what if a contractor in the Green Zone got drunk, revealed to a JAG that he was openly gay, and then went back to his room and spent the night downloading porn. Each of these is a no-no in Iraq, not felonies in civilian life, but certainly not allowed under UCMJ. Seeing such violations of the UCMJ, is that officer obligated to call an MP in and send the contractor to the brig? I don't think it should, but then again, I'm not the JAG's who have to figure these things out.
My own two cents is that the most sensible implementation would be comparable to MEJA, whose loopholes it intends to fill. That is, while MEJA references the jurisdiction back (and hence to all of domestic civilian law), it only is supposed to kick in when there is a suspicion of the equivalent of the commission of a felony offense. Example, if you jaywalk in Iraq, MEJA can't be enacted, even though jaywalking is a crime back in the US, because it's not a felony. But any crime that could get up 1 year or above in jailtime, could fall technically under MEJA. The difference is that MEJA was never designed to apply to military/security missions or the context of conflict zones (its point of origin was a family abuse case at a US base in Germany) and has proven to be pretty much mythical in application to the contractor world (the only MEJA case activated was a domestic dispute at a base in Turkey). Court martials, for all their faults, are designed for the context of military action and conflict, such as being better set up to interpret things like whether someone violated the rules of engagement or not than a civilian court. And, while they can be equally politicized or leave out senior leaders (Abu Ghraib), they actually do happen.
But again, that's what I as a non lawyer think would be a fair interpretation of the new expansion, that it just kick in for felonies. What happens next up in the air (and why I recommend the military clarify it to Congress).
The point is 1) It's a new law that holds great potential to solve a lot of problems, but, like all laws, that potential depends on interpretations and implementation decisions, 2) that both military and contractor folks now have to scramble to figure how they will act given this new reality, and 3) like it or not, it's the law of the land.
Posted by: P.W. Singer at January 5, 2007 06:07 PM
Billy,
Your CO is an Idiot and your an idiot for thinking that was cool. First off it is illegal to pull up anyones personal records without their written concent. Then to threaten the contractors with it is a true sign of his leadership capabiities. Then he knows the identities and wherabouts of Iraqi Police that are involved with the insurgency and counts them as assets to threaten fellow americans instead of the terrorist trash they are. Personally I think that your commander should be immediatly removed from duty or even better find his way to the terrorists he loves so well and you should never be allowed to wear the US uniform again. You insult me and my fellow veterans when doing so.
Posted by: Whiskey6 at January 5, 2007 06:00 PM
Question; Unless I missed it, does Anybody know who stuck this in???
It's too bad this is coming now, Way To Late for the Retaliations of any and all Atrosities that some of these Mecenaries Committed!
Those suffering from these Retaliations were Our Military Troops!! It's bad enough when one of their own Royally Screwsup, but when a Mercenary does the Screwin it's Fanatical!!
I'm not sure this has reached fruition quite yet. I think that the Department of Defense has the next move.
I saw Scott Stucky speak about this halfway through a panel in DC on November 30. Scott was the outgoing General Counsel of the Senate Committee on armed forces (recently nominated to the Court of Appeals for the US Armed Forces). It was at the American Bar Association's annual review put on by the Standing Committee on Law and National Security. Mr. Stucky spoke about a number of new initiatives, including this one.
audio: http://www.abanet.org/natsecurity/multimedia/2006/16th_Annual_Conference/Panel_II.mp3
According to Mr. Stucky, whose comments were enlightening, UCMJ used to only apply to civilian contractors in a time of declared war because of a 1970 Court of Military appeals case called U.S. v. Avarette (19 U.S.C.M.A. 363 (4/4/1970),
http://www.jstor.org/view/00029300/di981758/98p0229u/0
but now it can apply when there is a declaration of war or a declaration of contingency operation.
My question for those who are more knowledgeable for I about the UCMJ is what is a contingency operation? Mr. Stucky implied that it was now up to DOD to amend their “Manual for Courts-martial” (MCM) to determine the scope of this.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/law/mcm.pdf
Does anyone know about that process within DoD? The MCM states: “The Department of Defense Joint Service Committee (JSC) on Military Justice reviews the Manual for Courts-Martial and proposes amendments to the Department of Defense for consideration by the President on an annual basis. In conducting its annual review, the JSC is guided by DoD Directive 5500.17, “The Roles and Responsibilities of the Joint Service Committee (JSC) on Military Justice.” DoD Directive 5500.17 includes provisions allowing public participation in the annual review process.“
Hmmm. Public participation in the process or perhaps an executive order from the whitehouse could alter how this is implemented. See page 8 of the following for information on participation.
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/550017_050303/550017p.pdf
Has the window for this opportunity closed yet? Has anyone read about such a proposal in the federal register? Sounds like a good way for people to air their thoughts on this hot button issue. Is it politically preferable to have UCMJ apply rather than another system of law, perhaps even local or ICJ? I am not qualified to speak about the jurisidiction of Iraq's courts or of the ICJ, but I pose the question to those who are.
Posted by: Georgetown Lawyer at January 5, 2007 01:46 PM
Remember the days when contractors were people you hired to fix your roof?
Whatever happened to the word mercenary?
"The generic definition of a mercenary is a soldier who fights or engages in warfare primarily for private gain, usually with little regard for ideological, national, or political considerations" Source: Wikipedia
Posted by: Crud at January 5, 2007 01:05 PM
Well what we have here is another VIP that states they saw something. Its Kinda hard when you dont leave the Sheraton or the IZ. Ive been in country since Feb 04, Ive seen all kinds of things and mostly from young troops. God Bless Them, we were just like them 5, 10,20 years ago. The fact is that 90% of your " Armed Contractors" are vets and I dont appreciate being accused of not following ROE. The fact is most of us have more training and experience than the mojority of the young boots on the ground.
The use of the UCMJ would be a major mistake, It works good for keeping young troops in line but thats asuming that the 22 year old LT. fresh in the military is making the right desions. As contractors there is a lot of thought put into every mission with input from every military back ground you could immagine.
The fact is war is hell and the left is looking to nail someones 4th point of contact boys. They cant do it to the troops because that would be UnAmerican. So go after the guys that did there time and are now getting paid for the skills they spent there whole life perfecting.
Bottom line is embedding reporters is what has caused the majority of the problems in the war zone. When are they going to be brought up on charges of sedition and working with the enemy?
Posted by: DOC ECHO-1 at January 5, 2007 09:42 AM
Can't wait to see somebody charged with disrespect..... This seems to be pretty poorly thought thorugh. Unless of course confusion and the ensuing weakness were the intent....
William sends.
Posted by: William at January 5, 2007 09:08 AM
I worked in Iraq for the past three years. Everyone with a gun points them at the contractors and if they want to, they shoot. Worse yet the Army is understaffed and they are shooting up the civilian people each day and they are not held accountable. They pull some trash with contractors too and they get away with it. Seems like the civilian contractor is going to be made a scape goat. 90% of the contractors over in Iraq have several years in uniform or served their 20+ and have retired. Give us (the contractors) the tools to do the job and let us do what we are paid to do. It is such a BS mess with these kids in uniform when they find out that you make more than they do. WTF, We were in their shoes before and now we have a chance to better our lives with that good training that we had from our time in uniform. Contractor is not a dirty word but sometimes it seems like it is. So send in more troops, is that the answer? Not realy, get everyone out and let them sort it out. They will just kill eachother so get out of their way and let them have at it.
Posted by: Tripwire at January 5, 2007 02:08 AM
On a trip to the Green Zone, I had several reports of contractors who actually leveled their weapons at senior U.S. army officers. John Folsom
Clearly you're getting this second, third, fourth or fifth hand. Anybody who was in the Green Zone in 04-05 knows exactly who the PSD outfit was that did that - and it wasn't officers, it was Army MPs who got drawn down on. Second, the reason nothing happened was because that particular outfit works for State and a certain three-letter agency.
If you think Army trumps State and agencies, then you are a noob. Who do you think is running this war, anyway? It isn't Army - who do you think let Sadr live?
Putting contractors - the rest of them who don't shoot people and are trying to do thier year and get the heck out dodge - under UCMJ is a really bad idea. I was under UCMJ for 21 years, and I'll tell you what, I'll take the civilian courts rights package over UCMJ any day of the week. Under UCMJ you go to jail for saying, "kiss my ass sir, thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life." Go back two years and think of reservists refusing to commit suicide by driving unarmed and unescorted fuel tankers on the most IED and sniper laden route through Baghdad ever.
In any case, as was previously stated, disciplinary procedures are already stipulated by contract, and US law still applies. Calling the FBI is just that and they are in country. A contractor has got to go home sometime, and if a commander has a problem with a contractor, there is absolutely nothing that says he cannot put a contractor on a plane under armed escort back to the good old US of A.
Posted by: JohnG at January 4, 2007 07:35 PM
Let me add this to the commenter's claim of having witnessed a murder and then having done nothing about it.
Such a witness having done nothing about the murder could be subject to the UCMJ themselves even if the perp was not military. To wit:
878. ART. 78. ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT
Any person subject to this chapter who, knowing that an offense punishable by this chapter has been committed, receives, comforts, or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial, or punishment shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
881. ART. 81. CONSPIRACY
Any person subject to this chapter who conspires with any other person to commit an offense under this chapter shall, if one or more of the conspirators does an act to effect the object of the conspiracy, be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Regarding the reporters - one does not need to be paid to be under contract. All that is required is offer, acceptance, and consideration. Some exchange of money usually coveres part of consideration, but a change in legal position also satisifies this demand. In other words, the military lets them embed, and the reporters agree to abide by the UCMJ. That's sufficient consideration to make a valid contract.
Posted by: Izuko at January 4, 2007 06:38 PM
This is probably a very bad idea. I've heard of a few most likely illegal incidents over there when I was there, but for the most part it was few and far between.
The Army dodged the question about armed contractors in 2003. A contractor asked Rumsfeld on live TV if contractors were going to be allowed to carry weapons in theater...Rumsfeld said Sanchez could answer the question and since then the Army has dodged the bullet.
Since then, contractors who have to drive trucks and travel off FOBs without military escort have 'done what they had to do' to protect themselves as obviously, getting captured would most likely end up in a beheading on video tape. I've also seen contractors left high and dry by the Army escorts who fled ambushes.
It won't take but two or three cases of contractors getting prosecuted under UCMJ for have self-defense weaponry, and you can start looking at contract drivers who deliver soldier's food, start costing well over $300K a year per head.
Good job DoD. You managed to stick it to the tax payer again to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Posted by: JohnG at January 4, 2007 05:51 PM
"why would a soldier take the chance of killing a US civilian (no matter how reprehensible the act he witnessed)"
Because it would be the right thing to do under the circumstances? Call me old fashioned I guess.
Some skell shoots a clerk at 7-11 and starts to draw down on the other clerk, I'm gonna pop him if I can get a clear shot. I'm not gonna think about the consequences. That's for the lawers to sort out.
And as you stated - the outcome in the Pantano case WAS the correct one. THE SYSTEM WORKS when you give it a chance to.
Call BS....? PV, Intersting theory that the Army Paymaster keeps the official record of Iraqi civilian deaths by counting the 'payouts.'
Civilians were sometimes shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, period. The most common expression I heard from contractors coming back during the early days of the CPA was, "It's the Wild Wild West ..."
Why go there? Our CO on that Katrina detail went for a one year committment at $750 a day, 7 days per week, tax free. Paid for his house in CA. I don't think he went to win Iraqi 'hearts and minds.'
Like I say, haven't been there myself but have classmates that provided Paul Bremer's PSD. BTW, there is one, and only one, LLoyd's of London five star rated security company in Iraq. I've never seen it referenced or mentioned in any news discussion in the entire war. Many of these contractor horror stories relate to the companies that were always lousy, like Custer Battles, but were lucky enough to put their hats under the cash waterfall that started after the invasion.
Posted by: Spoiler at January 4, 2007 05:11 PM
If the reader can get to the last paragraph of this poorly written article ie: syntax and grammer, the author states that Hollywood should be the model of our govement;
"A change of a few words in a legislative bill certainly isn't the stuff of a blockbuster movie. So don't expect to see Angelina Jolie starring in "Paragraph (10) of Section 802(a)" in a theatre near you anytime soon. But the legal changes in it are a sign that Congress is finally catching up to Hollywood on the private military industry. And that is the stuff of good governance."
God help us if this is what our new Congress is about.
Posted by: Keith Gosney at January 4, 2007 05:08 PM
When will the realities of war come into focus for those "observers from afar" who believe killing or being killed might be "sanitized?"
Posted by: Benjamin at January 4, 2007 04:50 PM
Ok...I'll weigh in again:
In August(maybe September) of 2005 we had to detain contractors who shot at Marines in Fallujah. These guys were out of control.
On a trip to the Green Zone, I had several reports of contractors who actually leveled their weapons at senior U.S. army officers.
Contractors, for the most part, are unaccountable to the commanders of their Area of Operations in which they worked. Of course, many of these contractors worked for State as PSDs and,as such, were not subject to military comamnd.
Now, I did see many hardworking contractors, but these were the ones who kept the lights on for us and who fed us. I can't say the same for those who thought that because they were "civilians" that they were above the law just because they were armed.
For those of you who do not believe that there was abuse don't know what you're talking about.
Posted by: John Folsom at January 4, 2007 04:45 PM
PS- Is anyone else annoyed with the tone of this author?
"Since the start of the Iraq war, tens of thousands of heavily-armed military contractors have been roaming the country -- without any law, or any court to control them. That may be about to change, Brookings Institution Senior Fellow P.W. Singer notes in a Defense Tech exclusive..."
roaming around uncontroled?
memo to PW Singer - why don't you pick up your check from Al Queda already, and why is defensetech hiring such an anti-military klymer?
Posted by: Joe IntheStreet at January 4, 2007 04:24 PM
The constant complaints about the media not giving fair coverage to our military's accomplishments in Iraq are finally answered. There are only 2 "real" US reporters embedded with our troops. I am left to wonder who they write for.
Posted by: Jon at January 4, 2007 04:23 PM
WARNING To My Fellow Americans! STAY OFF OF AIRPLANES!
lol
American's working for American's
cannot be mercenaries. Fools
Posted by: J at January 4, 2007 04:19 PM
I have never been in the military but this I can tell you - 3000 dead and if I were in Iraq doing that jab for the U.S. of A, I'd make sure that I'm not 3001. If it means an innocent Iraqi makes a mistake and gets too close to my car that has "STAY BACK" in painted on it in Arabic, well I would be improving the literacy rate there before I leave my kids with no father. Iraq is a dangerous place full of dangerous, armed people on all sides of the conflict. If it's going to be you or them - make sure it THEM.
What what we really need to see are hangings for "journalists" embeded with the jihadist scum. And for their editors and publishers as well.
Posted by: Joe Inthestreet at January 4, 2007 04:15 PM
Purple Avenger writes in reference to a soldier who witnessed a contractor killing a civilian (who did phone it in and was told to let it go)...
---
If dropping some piece of shit skell who just shot some poor schlub for no good reason doesn't qualify as a righteous shooting then I don't know what would.
---
A US Marine was brought up on charges when an NBC cameraman captured him shooting an insurgent. The shooting was investigated and the soldier was cleared and his actions deemed as acting in accordance with procedures.
If soldiers are being charged with shooting the enemy while being filmed by a US news crew, why would a soldier take the chance of killing a US civilian (no matter how reprehensible the act he witnessed)
Posted by: KTS at January 4, 2007 04:10 PM
all i can say is that liberals are going to ruin America. We have contractors that don't have the same laws as normal people because the military isn't allowed to do what they need to do. Democrats and liberals wont let the army be run the way it needs to.
Posted by: Smitty at January 4, 2007 04:03 PM
Contractors should be covered under somebody's law. If they refuse to voluntarily go under the UCMJ, they should be advised that they can be turned over to local national jurisdiction. The biggest deterrent to bad behavior is for a military commander to threaten to turn contractors over the local national authorities.
Posted by: mdd at January 4, 2007 04:02 PM
" when you can pay 20-40k for a fully trained military trooper."
Force flexibility during down times. It doesn't cost "only" 20-40K" for that trooper either. I suspect the "total out the door" cost of maintaining him in a hot zone is more in the range of $150K/yr (based on total employee load costs I do know the numbers for from IBM)
...and I'll call bullshit on that account until someone can show me Army paymaster records of a payout to the supposed family for an unwarranted death.
That account smells like another "Jesse MacBeth" BS job.
Methinks the UCMJ is just the most convenient way to put a pre-existing legal code over armed contractors. I can't speak personally to the Iraq experience but was on a ground force PSD during Katrina. The contract company I worked for pulled in folks from Iraq and there was a bit of trouble getting those guys calmed down and working in a civilian/ CONUS environment. They were clearly used to using whatever methods they thought best in terms of deadly force. We soon split the detail into three teams and the older vets (like myself) gravitated together and I had a very good time from there on out. Shortly thereafter I wasn't surprised to have our CO give us a speech after one team ran afoul of the police in Pensacola for intimidating the locals.
I was told that in Iraq under the CPA (and beyond) that a contractor acting in what was perceived as 'self-defense' could not be charged with murder. Whether true or not they had all been told that by their COs. A few related stories about kicking open their doors and shooting folks that got too close to their vehicles: I did believe them. They said they didn't like the practice but couldn't take the chance somebody would stroll up and toss a grenade. The contractors were favorite targets as they travelled in smaller groups than the military and didn't have the armor or firepower. FWIW, I'm not excusing killing an unarmed civilians, intimidation, or the like. Our Constitution defines the rights of humans, not just American humans. Thanks for letting me go on.....
Posted by: Spoiler at January 4, 2007 03:54 PM
why have contractors, just increase military pay and bonuses to enlist. should be a no brainer. why pay 200k for a used car salesman when you can pay 20-40k for a fully trained military trooper.
Posted by: rob at January 4, 2007 03:53 PM
"Then the soldier who wittnessed this killing gets brought up on murder charges."
Civie Cops shoot bad guys all the time and get away with it because the bad guy was a demonstrable danger to the public at large.
If dropping some piece of shit skell who just shot some poor schlub for no good reason doesn't qualify as a righteous shooting then I don't know what would.
Anyone who witnesses such an incident and doesn't intervene is in my mind an amoral piece of shit.
I've been in this hole for almost three years as a construction contractor and have spent a lot of time in the care of private security contractors, and watching the myriad of these outfits perform here.
I have no beef with the idea of placing them under the UCMJ in the event of serious criminal behavior (beards OK; rape not OK). And some of the "high-profile" teams have clearly seen too many Arnie movies.
But the slurs and mischaracterizations this article makes are grossly misleading when they are not flat-out wrong.
A few examples, starting with the opening sentence:
"Since the start of the Iraq war, tens of thousands of heavily-armed military contractors have been roaming the country -- without any law, or any court to control them."
No laws at all? Before this little change they could just rape and slaughter and steal and burn and no one could do anything? Please. The FBI has an office and agents here, and I've seen people handcuffed for breaking US laws that are REQUIRED in the DoD contract language all American contractors are committed to (see General Order #1). Have some a-holes been able to get away with some pretty bad behaviors in this loony bin? You bet: this is a war zone, not the dreamy Law and Order soundstage you referred to.
"The situation perhaps hit its low-point this fall, when the Under Secretary of the Army testified to Congress that the Army had never authorized Halliburton or any of its subcontractors (essentially the entire industry) to carry weapons or guard convoys."
What's at an all-time low is your knowledge of facts. As another commenter said above, KBR's DoD contract requires that their security is covered by the US Military. They are forbidden from carrying weapons or using private security. I worked for Kids, Brothers, and Relatives for three mind-numbing months here and if you even accidentally brushed up against some soldier's M16 you could be fired. The Under Secretary was correct regarding Halliburton and weapons; you are wrong.
"But the legal changes in it are a sign that Congress is finally catching up to Hollywood on the private military industry."
WOW. That's a mouthful. So you think Congress should do a better job at "catching up" to Hollywood, huh? Because Hollywood is just THE benchmark for sensible judgment and profound morality, right? So our political and military leaders should just be asking themselves, "What did Leo do in his latest picture?" Is that how decisions in Iraq and the greater war with suicide-bombing Islamic jihadists should be made?
"...a contractor can earn upwards of $100,000-200,000 a year (tax free)"
WRONG. Military guys are tax free, contracctors are not. There is a tax BREAK up to $84K, and after that we (Americans anyway) are taxed. And by the way, the main reason we make so much a year is because we work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Your pay would be high too if you put in 80 to 100 hours a week. There is a haz uplift that adds maybe 25% to a given paycheck, but most of that big pile is from working a whole lot of hours. As for comparisons with the military guys, it's called 'different career choices'.
In short, the change in the law sounds right, especially since outsourcing security tasks is a big deal now, unlike previous wars. But if you want to spout off about laws and restrictions for guys in the field here, it seems to me that you need to spend a little more time doing serious research (hint: Hollywood movies are not serious research).
PS - for everyone who referred to these guys as some form of loser mall security types, you've OBVIOUSLY never been here. Most are ex-Special Forces (SEALs, British SAS, Army Rangers, Royal Marine Commandos, Air Force PJs, Force Recon, etc.). Mercenaries - yes. Mall cop wannabes? Hardly. Many are Alpha-jerks; many are really good and genuine guys - the hard salt of the earth. And they are generally pretty serious guys doing pretty serious and dangerous work, and I'm willing to bet none of the armchair types who made such characterizations on this blog would have the stones to say the same thing to their faces.
Happy New Year
Posted by: orangeducks at January 4, 2007 03:52 PM
John Ryan says:
History is already beginning to judge the USA and it will judge us harshly.
Iraq is the biggest foreign affair debacle in our history.
While I agree that the Iraq campaign was not handled aggressively enough, and the real reasons such as putting pressure on Saudi Arabia to cooperate on prosecuting Al Queda, creating a military presence to pressure Iran knowing they were within a decade of a nuke in 2002-2003 time frame (we see how that is working), and imposing an aggresssive show of force to the islamic jihadist movement who wittnessed decades of US weak behavior, these reasons were not clearly articulated by the administration.
Remember that the jihadist conflict was more than 20 years old on 9/11 and Iraq is one campaign in a very long war. We lost 4000 in a month during the Anzio campaign riddled with mistakes in WW2 but we kept pressing. Let's not loose sight of the big picture. Let's also be thankful for the volunteer forces sacrificing much to prosecute this phase of a decades long war.
Posted by: KTS at January 4, 2007 03:41 PM
Not sure if everyone has seen these videos of the US military in Iraq or not, but they are pretty amazing: Hopefully our 'surge' will not include too many of these types...
http://minor-ripper.blogspot.com/2006/12/winning-hearts-and-minds-part-three.html
Posted by: MinorRipper at January 4, 2007 03:33 PM
Nothing of substance to add, but this was an authorization bill, not a "budget" bill. Had the Congress included it in the actual appropriations bill, it would be fair to say it was "snuck" in. Including authorizing language in an authorization bill is hardly nefarious.
Posted by: Brian at January 4, 2007 03:32 PM
if you'd like to talk about unfair, let's again discuss the difference in a soldier's annual stipend and the generous living provided to the "soldier of fortune".
Posted by: loretta at January 4, 2007 03:29 PM
Purple Avenger said of the soldie who witnessed an incident of a contractor killing a civilian...
"How about just dropping the bastard?"
Then the soldier who wittnessed this killing gets brought up on murder charges.
Posted by: KTS at January 4, 2007 03:21 PM
My CO had a very interesting way of making sure the civilian contractors in his area to behave. Before he came the civilian contractors were acting like thugs. My CO in the civilian world is a cop. So he got his friends to pull up personal data on the civilian contractors.
He had a meeting with them and basically told them if they keep on acting the way they did he will make sure their personal information makes it's way to the insurgents and he will personally hand them over to members of the Iraqi police that he is fairly certain are members of the insurgency.
Funny thing was after that meeting the civilian contractors stopped being thugs to the Iraqis.
Posted by: Billy at January 4, 2007 03:21 PM
What happened to that part in the Geneva convention wherein personnell who were military but out of uniform were considered spies and could be shot on sight. It seems to me if a so-call contractor was carrying-out military functions and was not in GI clothing, they were spies within the meaning of the Geneva convention and could be summarily executed just for being in the combat zone.
Posted by: The Man Who Watches at January 4, 2007 03:20 PM
It didn't shock me that someone from Brookings got so many basic facts wrong. They are some of the worst analysts in the country.
I think the author should spend more time "thinking" in the think tank and less time watching movies. Anyone who makes that many references to fiction usually doesn't have too strong a grasp on reality.
Posted by: Not Surprised at January 4, 2007 03:17 PM
infantry lincoln... where to start..
lol
"bizarre anti-military fantasies"
You sir, are an idiot. You should work for GW, you'd fit right in. But I am guessing that you already do.
Posted by: ganst at January 4, 2007 03:02 PM
"Most all of these "contractor" mercenaries are wannabes, wash-out security guards at parking garages back home, who read Soldier of Fortune and fantasize about rapine and pillage."
On the contrary, most I know were top of the line former soldiers / special forces types, who realized they could make far more than a military salary doing basically the same job as before.
The Blackwater guys I know were all the best the military had to offer.
It seems a bit idiotic to me, to confine a non-military member to the Uniform Code of MILITARY Justice.
Posted by: Josh at January 4, 2007 02:57 PM
History is already beginning to judge the USA and it will judge us harshly.
Iraq is the biggest foreign affair debacle in our history.
Posted by: John Ryan at January 4, 2007 02:49 PM
The British Investigation into the "Elvis" video event released its report before Christmas concluding that all the footage in the video came from legitimate operations. Strange you mention the case to support your argument but don't mention the (previous) resolution. Raised major red flags with me about the enitire article.
Posted by: Michael Stora at January 4, 2007 02:48 PM
P.W. Singer a policy task force coordinator for the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign.
---nuf said.
Posted by: ottovoiss at January 4, 2007 02:48 PM
As a private contractor in both AFG and Iraq,
I have only worked with mil veterans, and professional services. People should investigate things before blindly stating an opinion based on what they are TOLD. Ineterestingly enough, I did work with non-military and that was a city police officer that was kicked out because of incompitance. We also had laws and ROE that we had
to follow or we WOULD BE arrested.
Posted by: J at January 4, 2007 02:47 PM
Once again facts are wrong here. P.W. Singer asserts incorrectly that Halliburton carried weapons, if he had bothered to read the LOGCAP III contract he would see that KBR (subsidiary of Halliburton) who won the contract is forbidden to carry weapons and so the US military must protect them. Many other contractors (Dyncorp, Blackwater, CACI, Armour Group, EOD tech just to name a few) are armed based upon the contract they hold. EOD contractors even get to play with explosives (horrors!) When the Under Secretary reported to Congress he was being truthful KBR is not armed. And while KBR may be one of the larger contractors in the Sand Box they are hardly "the entire industry". I could go on but I have a life.
Incorrect data, logical fallacies, and just puerile thinking litter this "report" perhaps P.W. Singer should work on finishing his GED, take a class or two in logic and how to research data instead of making up facts out of whole cloth to fit his bizarre anti-military fantasies.
Posted by: Infantry Lincoln at January 4, 2007 02:30 PM
So does this mean that a civilian contractor hired to perform non-military functions who in turn hires a civilian security contractor to provide security for their operations will be subject to the UCMJ? Will the security contractor be subject to the UCMJ? What if, as is often customary, the security contractor is a foreign corporation? And as for those who purportedly saw murders perpetrated, why not simply arrest the murderer right there on the spot and turn the murderer over to civilian authorities?
Posted by: Richard at January 4, 2007 02:29 PM
At least they are free from Iraqi law !
Posted by: Robert at January 4, 2007 02:19 PM
Most all of these "contractor" mercenaries are wannabes, wash-out security guards at parking garages back home, who read Soldier of Fortune and fantasize about rapine and pillage.
They deserve far worse than courts-martial, they deserve to be left behind when we bring the real troops home. It's just too bad there likely won't be video of them getting their justice on the internet, set to Elvis music.
Posted by: melior at January 4, 2007 02:18 PM
"I have seen a contractor shoot a civilian in the head because he protested when the contractor grabbed his daughters breasts. There was nothing that anyone could do about it "
Very good article. I agree with the conclusion although the ambiguity of the law is an advantage, in my opinion, that allows our military to define the line where civilians become defendents. A DoD recommendation to Congress seems wise, though, at least in the beginning stages.
Posted by: Joshua Godinez at January 4, 2007 02:14 PM
Please note that actual Veterans and soldiers support this act while all the chicken hearted arm chair warriors screamabout conspiracies.
Posted by: Ghost of Patton at January 4, 2007 02:12 PM
The Brookings Institute IS the DNC. It really is a bunch of left-wing, anti-military slugs. There might well be abuse by SOME members of the press, military, and contractors, but to paint all those who are contract workers for the government is another liberal lunatic assault on things they don't know. Abu Ghraib abuses were not done by contractors, but instead by a bunch of Pennsylvania Guard and reserves, many who worked in prisons before going to Iraq. This moron paints Abu Ghraib as a contractor issue, it was not, it was bored insane soldiers who went bad. It was not systemic. I wonder why the Brookings Institute failed to mention the number of military contractors MURDERED by insurgents. Bunch of pansy academics who use shame all Americans. Hey, a U Penn professor is accused of murdering his wife -- we can officially say all Ivy League professors are wife murderers.
Posted by: Karen at January 4, 2007 02:04 PM
Here's an idea in order to staunch the flow of soldiers leaving the army to become contractors:
Contractors performing the same job that is performed by a military member can be paid no more than 125% of E-5 base pay.
Without the daployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, most of these guys would be mall cops.
I spent 12 months in Iraq with Multi-National Force West and saw many of these guys in action. Not impressed.
Posted by: John Folsom at January 4, 2007 01:58 PM
I find it incredible that people like Maurico and Chuck can somehow find links between contractor conduct in Iraq and the DNC! I think I must be missing something, could it be a load of BS not delivered I guess
Posted by: Bill A at January 4, 2007 01:56 PM
I am on my 3rd tour, I have seen a contractor shoot a civilian in the head because he protested when the contractor grabbed his daughters breasts. There was nothing that anyone could do about it when re radioed it in we were told to lethim go. This isjust one of dozens of stories and one that I saw myself.
Posted by: WKean at January 4, 2007 01:49 PM
The law seems to make sense and the article does a good job explaining its effects on the contractors, but you left one major thing out, who prosecutes the UCMJ? THE MILITARY! That is right. This creates one more legal conondrum for our officers and soldiers. Who is responsible for reporting these contractors? What action can be taken on these soldiers if they do not report a contractor that they have no idea whom they are nor have any affilition with? Remember that under UCMJ, not reporting war crimes is also punishable. There is no Chain of Command, so where does the responsibility lie? As well, whom polices these contractors? Has this been budgeted? Do we have enough troops now to place them in MITT teams with the contractors as we have the Iraqis? It sounds like once again a law with vague verbage will have much larger repercussions than originally intended a'la HIPPA (Health Insurance Protection Portability Act). I do not think our enemies have these same restrictions. The last time I checked, Al Queda published a 30 page manual, and the Quran is only a couple hundred pages. KISS - Keep it Simple and Stupid.
Posted by: Brian at January 4, 2007 01:44 PM
If a civilian contractor is accused of a crime and detained for more that six months in jail and then at found NOT GUILTY at the court marshal or trial, does the contractor now become a veteran? In this case it could be argued that because he was in military service, i.e in the stockade for 180 days or more in a combat zone, he would become a veteran with all benefits bestowed. Would this particular contractor would be akin to a draftee, forced into U.S. military service?
Posted by: foil fighter at January 4, 2007 01:44 PM
Good point Kevin. It sounds like liberal bullshit to me as well.
Posted by: Chuck at January 4, 2007 01:41 PM
Why shouldn't journalists be covered by the law too? Because they work for the DNC propaganda machine?
Posted by: Mauricio Villablanca at January 4, 2007 01:41 PM
Good. Exposure to the UCMJ means additional risk, which means more money. I need a raise.
Being subject to the UCMJ will make us immune from Iraqi law under the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), just like soldiers.
Also, the US government will not turn us over to the International Criminal court (ICC) to be tried for war crimes; real, imagined, or concocted.
I lived under UCMJ for 22 years. A few more will not make any difference.
Posted by: Thorn in the thoat of Islam at January 4, 2007 01:39 PM
The author was told by "one US army officer recently told me of an incident he witnessed"? Really? My, what a stringent burden of proof this author has for contractor misdeeds. War stories and Hollywood movies? Any chance there are any further details on this alleged shooting at a Green Zone gate? Perhaps nationality of the contractor? I live here, and it sounds like BS to me. Try not to overlook all the US military lives saved by contractors while you're bemoaning all our "war crimes".
Posted by: Kevin at January 4, 2007 01:30 PM
I can only hope that as we hold these contractors to Military Code they will be given full ability to call in assistance and troops to assist them as needed. It would be a bit misguided to hold them to the conduct of our military without offering the resourses of our military.
Posted by: CH at January 4, 2007 01:29 PM
Wish we had this law when I was in Iraq! We had a contractor shoot up a town, Al Batha, because some locals were shooting AK-47's in the air after a wedding. They hit two people and we, US Army, had to assist the injured. The contractor was already in Basra by the time we found out about the incident!
Posted by: mike at January 4, 2007 01:20 PM
how much do you think control of the UCMJ will matter if those honkers get in the US and raise hell with Americans. better think about a lot of things. some of you should try walking a mile in combat boots just to see if you can...bet you can't!
Posted by: abby at January 4, 2007 01:09 PM
The law also now allows the US to demand the release of any accused contractor to US custody vice being tried and sentanced by an Iraqi court. It may be something the contractors want. Maybe I am a cynic but I think they wanted a way to return to US custody if they are accused of unlawful acts in theatre.
Posted by: Mackey at January 4, 2007 12:53 PM
Given that the US military in Iraq freely detains anybody they wish (subject only to the intervention of high-ranking Iraqi officials), dealing with problematic contractors is easy. Just sling them in jail, hold them as long as they wish, treat them like they wish. Heck, torture them - that's something that only causes problems when pictures get out.
Posted by: Barry at January 4, 2007 10:28 AM
As an insurance underwriter who had actually looked at insuring Blackwater prior to their operations in Iraq, I saw that there was a fine line between security detail and operations that bordered on covert ops or raids. The problem is that due to the small size of the military, there hasn't been much forethought on the military or the Congress on what the level of oversight needs to be. The privatization of military duties has been increasing over the years at a gradual pace. The consequence has been that no one seemed to address the implications of the "security consultants" metamorpisizing into full blown mercenaries.
Posted by: atacms at January 4, 2007 08:09 AM
About time.
Normally, they would issue the contracts saying that UCMJ applied, but Bushco insisted that it not apply.
someone screwed up if the repugs let this pass.
Posted by: Aaron at January 4, 2007 12:34 AM
Laying on the partisan rhetoric abit thick, aren’t we? "One more nail in the coffin?" Give me a break, the abuses are regrettable but there is more to the conflict than the behavior of the worst.
In other words, stick to the point. Contractors can now be better prosecuted and a loophole is closed (Hopefully). But that just didn’t ring loud enough, so you had to bring up Halliburton, and then imply that we got some great conspiracy where the bush administration is trying to cover up, or even encourage those abuses? I don’t care what your political beliefs are, you cannot seriously think that our president is trying to fail in Iraq. And the constant Hollywood references are just too much. Yes, we should listen to law and order! FAG knows best.
I've been following this blog since shortly after 9/11 and I keep seeing the actual content shrink and the rhetoric go up.
Posted by: Vash at January 3, 2007 09:53 PM
Give me a break. There hasn't been a prosecution because of limited coverage by the UCMJ? It's about politics. If there is one more prosecution in Iraq of a contractor (which according to Viceroy Bremer's Order 17, yet to be overturned, is a protected class, immune from Iraqi law), that will be, what, a 100% increase over the duration of the 3+ "contingency operation". Or is 3yrs of "contingency operations" and a only a few months of "war"?
Ok, so "there's nothing wrong" without UCMJ coverage, you think they'll change their tune when there is? They already have a more powerful coercive mechanism available they could use if they cared: money. The law of contracts is much more powerful.
I'm sorry but this subtle change doesn't automagically make the legal beast leap into action.
Do you think Aegis, after 100 pages of report and 100 pages of appendix, would have been prosecuted under UCMJ? Or were they not close enough to direct support? Afterall, the incredibly (obtuse? ignorant?) testimony of the Under Secretary of the Army who said "contractors? I don't see no stinking contractors" (or something similar, I may be paraphrasing here) indicates either a lack of knowledge or the more accurate assessment of ignorance.
If we think the UCMJ magically links contractors w/ the military, where is the doctrine and training to understand this same interactivity? There's no training on how to work with, let alone identify, contractors in Iraq. And then we can get into the GAO's recent report, which mostly deals w/ the non-shooters...
I don't see how this change will substantially alter anything w/ regards to security contractors. But those are just my thoughts.
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