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Posted by: Doctor Laser at March 8, 2007 06:33 PM

You do realize a Q switched laser has an ultra short pulse duration. Meaning your hypothetical laser wouldn't even come close to the sustained output of a 500 watt continuous wave laser averaged over a given time period.

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Posted by: m at January 24, 2007 03:08 AM

I agree, photons do have mass. They are quite 'light', though. (I couldn't resist)

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check out the late paul marmet http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/info/author.html for the real spin on the photon.

particularly spend some time with the article on the fundamental nature of the electron.
http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/
article 20

not that the math is wrong it really isn't; it's the theory behind it.

Posted by: stev at January 19, 2007 12:17 AM

100 kw laser is nothing. In the book "Solid State Lasers for the Laser Enthusiast" by Daniel Gregory, he provides information on how to build a laser using an Nd:Yag rod with q-switching. One use a 3mm x 50mm rod and the other uses a 6mm x 76mm rod. I believe the bigger rod produces a 16 Megawatt beam and the smaller is around 2 Megawatts. Either of which far exceeds 100 Kilowatts. Here is the website for his company:

http://www.americanlasertechnic.com/index.htm

Posted by: Zach Taylor at January 18, 2007 11:08 AM

Actually, photons are not "attracted to the sun".
They appear to bend around the sun and other large objects (as seen with gravitational lensing), however this is not due to mutual gravitational attraction.

The light appears to bend because it is actually travelling a straight path through space-time. Because large masses, such as a star, warp space-time around them, they have the effect of bending the apparent light path.

Hope this helps

Posted by: Xibalba at January 18, 2007 10:00 AM

OK, physics lesson time.

Photons have no rest mass. The could not travel at the speed of light if they did. They DO have both energy and momentum. They are attracted to gravitational mass (e.g. they bend towards the sun) but this is true even though they do not have mass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Here comes the math. Assume a frequency of 3E14 Hertz (which is a good frequency for passing through the atmosphere and adaptive optics is easiest at this frequency). Each photon has an energy of 1.98E-19 Joules and a momentum of 6.62E-28 kilogram*meter/second.

A 100 KW laser firing a 1 second pulse (generous, the pulse is probably shorter) fires off 1E5 joules or 5E23 photons. The entire momentum in the beam is 3E-4 kilograms*meters/second.

A typical 2 gram rifle bullet with a typical 1000 meter/second exit velocity has a momentum of 20 kilogram*meter/second, roughly 66,000 times more momentum than the 100 KW laser beam.

So laser weapons are not kinetic kill weapons. There is not enough momentum in the beam. Even the largest lasers in the world don't have the momentum of a single AK47 round. They do their damage thermally, so spinning targets and reflective surfaces are a problem.

Posted by: cyga at January 18, 2007 09:42 AM

photons DO weigh something, sorry. They are visibly attracted to the sun´s gravitational field, for instance.

Posted by: Jazz at January 18, 2007 07:33 AM

Actually, photons have zero mass but do have momentum. The magnitude of the momentum of a photon is given by

p=h*nu/c

where h is Planck's constant, nu is the frequency, and c is the speed of light.

Posted by: Mike at January 17, 2007 07:48 PM

@Beowulf
Photon Momentum of the beam? Zero (photons don't weight anything)

Momentum of a few grams of steel/titanium/generic missile coating instantly being turned into a vapor? quite a lot methinks...

Posted by: Neodin at January 17, 2007 07:37 PM

Hey Grendel, what's the photon momentum in the beam? Kinetic kill my ass.

Posted by: Beowulf at January 17, 2007 06:44 PM

Laser energy is only cumulative to a point, you reach a point of diminshing returns. 100 1MW emitters will not combine to give you 1 100MW, that is why the fewer emitters you use the more efficient they are. Also, the objective is not to burn through or heat up the incoming projectile. Light (Photons) has properties of a wave and a particle. It's a kenetic kill they are trying to achive, just like a conventional projectile weapon. So spinning or not, wrapped in tin foil or highly polished doesn't make one bit of difference.

But the whole problem with lasers is thermal blooming. The beam creates heat, heat changes the air it passes through and around the beam (density, movement, etc...), and as the air changes you lose you focal point on the target and have to adjust your optics, and as soon as you change the optics you start the whole process all over again. What you end up with is a focusing mirror that is constantly making tiny adjustments as fast as it possibly can, basically wiggling thousands or millions times a second. That's for a stationary object, when the object is moving you are have to continualy burn a new path to the target.

All in all hitting a moving taget with a coherent beam of light is not an easy task, at all.

Posted by: Grendel at January 17, 2007 04:52 PM

>Maybe I'm a bit naive here. But isn't laser energy cumulative, for the most part? With that >in mind, wouldn't several low powered lasers, lazing the same target, create the necessary ablation.

Good guess Camp, and your following questions are sharp too. Those techniques are probably what Russians have in mind for their ICBMs. There will probably be techniques to counter the threats of lasers, but I would guess those techniques will be countered by increasing the amount the power for laser, or use maser as an alternative. I would recommend building a large microwave oven, open the doors for incoming rounds and let those get fried and pop? ;)

By the way, I predict Russia will suffer for the increase of price of their own weapons for additional costs of counter-laser weapons. We still have PAC3 and THAADs for future against ICBMs and normal CIWS other than lasers, and unfriendly countries will have to pay more having less of counter systems. That's worth something, with the enemy having less weapons in hands to use.

There will probably be one more type of method for counter mortar, rocket, and missile systems other than laser which I will keep my mouth shut.

Posted by: pedestrian at January 17, 2007 08:08 AM

We must also keep in mind that an artillery or mortar round is spinning (usually) when in flight. This would complicate efforts to heat the metal sufficiently to cut through.

Posted by: Mojave Mark at January 16, 2007 10:36 PM

Presumably, one doesn't need to cut through the metal. Simply heating the metal to the point where internal explosives ignite would be enough.

This would presumably not be terribly scale dependent. If the thermal conductivity of the metal between the surface and explosive in a 155mm mortar round really that much greater than in a 60mm mortar round? Indeed, the larger round would present a larger target, which might compensate for a somewhat longer heating time.

Posted by: ohwilleke at January 16, 2007 04:46 PM

Maybe I'm a bit naive here. But isn't laser energy cumulative, for the most part? With that in mind, wouldn't several low powered lasers, lazing the same target, create the necessary ablation. Either by independent platform firing or reflecting through the same targeting lens.
On a side note. Does this mean we'll soon see 'laser-safe mortar shells', wearing tinfoil hats? 'Anti-Laser' munitions? Laser decoys? Or maybe, even more re-runs of the movie 'Spies Like Us'?

Posted by: Camp at January 16, 2007 02:13 PM