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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Breaking: Double the Troops in "Surge" (Updated)

President Bush and his new military chiefs have been saying for nearly a month that they would "surge" an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, in a last, grand push to quell the violence in Baghdad and in Anbar Province. But a new study by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says the real troop increase could be as high as 48,000 -- more than double the number the President initially said.

troops_to_copter.jpgThat's because the combat units that President Bush wants to send into hostile areas need to be backed up by support troops, "including personnel to staff headquarters, serve as military police, and provide communications, contracting, engineering, intelligence, medical, and other services," the CBO notes.

Over the past few years , DoD’s practice has been to deploy a total of about 9,500 personnel per combat brigade to the Iraq theater, including about 4,000 combat troops and about 5,500 supporting troops.

DoD has not yet indicated which support units will be deployed along with the added combat forces, or how many additional troops will be involved. Army and DoD officials have indicated that it will be both possible and desirable to deploy fewer additional support units than historical practice would indicate. CBO expects that, even if the additional brigades required fewer support units than historical practice suggests, those units would still represent a significant additional number of military personnel.

To reflect some of the uncertainty about the number of support troops, CBO developed its estimates on the basis of two alternative assumptions. In one scenario, CBO assumed that additional support troops would be deployed in the same proportion to combat troops that currently exists in Iraq. That approach would require about 28,000 support troops in addition to the 20,000 combat troops—a total of 48,000. CBO also presents an alternative scenario that would include a smaller number of support personnel—about 3,000 per combat brigade—totaling about 15,000 support personnel and bringing the total additional forces to about 35,000.

According to the study, the costs for the "surge" would also be dramatically different than the President has said. The White House estimated a troop escalation would require about $5.6 billion in additional funding for the rest of fiscal year 2007. Of that, about $3.2 billion was supposed to go to the Army and Marines for their escalated activity.

But that figure appears to have been grossly underestimated. The CBO now believes "that costs would range from $9 billion to $13 billion for a four-month deployment and from $20 billion to $27 billion for a 12-month deployment." There's a more detailed analysis of the numbers on pages 3 and 4 of the study, which was sent to House Budget Chairman John Spratt today.

UPDATE 1:43 PM: Here's Spratt's reaction, in a statement just released:

“An average of 170,000 military personnel has been maintained in the Iraq theater of operations, and this high deployment level has taken a toll. Last year, CBO reported that the Department of Defense had reduced the amount of ‘dwell’ time for many troops from two years to one year in order to sustain troop levels. ‘Dwell’ time is the time troops spend in training at bases in the United States while living with their families. CBO questioned whether such a high pace of operations was sustainable over the long term. The President’s proposal will increase this level to above 200,000 troops, and to reach this level, the Pentagon will probably have to relax ‘dwell’ time standards even more.

“CBO’s report concludes that the cost of the President’s plan to ‘surge’ troops will be higher than previously indicated, both in dollar terms and in the burdens it places on our military.”

UPDATE 2:06 PM: As they say on the Internet, "WTF?" Gen. George Casey, the nominee for Army chief of staff, "told a Senate panel Thursday that improving security in Baghdad would take fewer than half as many extra troops as President Bush has chosen to commit," the AP is reporting.

Asked by Sen. John Warner, R-Va., why he had not requested the full five extra brigades that Bush is sending, Casey said, "I did not want to bring one more American soldier into Iraq than was necessary to accomplish the mission."

With many in Congress opposing or skeptical of Bush's troop buildup, Casey did not say he opposed the president's decision. He said the full complement of five brigades would give U.S. commanders in Iraq additional, useful flexibility.

"In my mind, the other three brigades should be called forward after an assessment has been made on the ground" about whether they are needed to ensure success in Baghdad, Casey said. later.

Now, Casey has long been skeptical of a troop increase. "It's a tough nut, whether or not bringing in more troops, more US troops will have a significant long term impact on the violence," he said back in October. And just the other day, Casey was arguing that any additional boots on the ground could be removed by the summer. So this feels like we're seeing the edges of an internal squabble between the White House and the Army brass. Or maybe between general and general.

UPDATE 02/02/07 6:36 PM: The White House is denying the CBO report.

(Big ups: JA)

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« Osprey Ready for Primetime? Part Two | Main | Rapid Fire 02/01/07 »
Breaking: Double the Troops in "Surge" (Updated)

President Bush and his new military chiefs have been saying for nearly a month that they would "surge" an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, in a last, grand push to quell the violence in Baghdad and in Anbar Province. But a new study by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says the real troop increase could be as high as 48,000 -- more than double the number the President initially said.

troops_to_copter.jpgThat's because the combat units that President Bush wants to send into hostile areas need to be backed up by support troops, "including personnel to staff headquarters, serve as military police, and provide communications, contracting, engineering, intelligence, medical, and other services," the CBO notes.

Over the past few years , DoD’s practice has been to deploy a total of about 9,500 personnel per combat brigade to the Iraq theater, including about 4,000 combat troops and about 5,500 supporting troops.

DoD has not yet indicated which support units will be deployed along with the added combat forces, or how many additional troops will be involved. Army and DoD officials have indicated that it will be both possible and desirable to deploy fewer additional support units than historical practice would indicate. CBO expects that, even if the additional brigades required fewer support units than historical practice suggests, those units would still represent a significant additional number of military personnel.

To reflect some of the uncertainty about the number of support troops, CBO developed its estimates on the basis of two alternative assumptions. In one scenario, CBO assumed that additional support troops would be deployed in the same proportion to combat troops that currently exists in Iraq. That approach would require about 28,000 support troops in addition to the 20,000 combat troops—a total of 48,000. CBO also presents an alternative scenario that would include a smaller number of support personnel—about 3,000 per combat brigade—totaling about 15,000 support personnel and bringing the total additional forces to about 35,000.

According to the study, the costs for the "surge" would also be dramatically different than the President has said. The White House estimated a troop escalation would require about $5.6 billion in additional funding for the rest of fiscal year 2007. Of that, about $3.2 billion was supposed to go to the Army and Marines for their escalated activity.

But that figure appears to have been grossly underestimated. The CBO now believes "that costs would range from $9 billion to $13 billion for a four-month deployment and from $20 billion to $27 billion for a 12-month deployment." There's a more detailed analysis of the numbers on pages 3 and 4 of the study, which was sent to House Budget Chairman John Spratt today.

UPDATE 1:43 PM: Here's Spratt's reaction, in a statement just released:

“An average of 170,000 military personnel has been maintained in the Iraq theater of operations, and this high deployment level has taken a toll. Last year, CBO reported that the Department of Defense had reduced the amount of ‘dwell’ time for many troops from two years to one year in order to sustain troop levels. ‘Dwell’ time is the time troops spend in training at bases in the United States while living with their families. CBO questioned whether such a high pace of operations was sustainable over the long term. The President’s proposal will increase this level to above 200,000 troops, and to reach this level, the Pentagon will probably have to relax ‘dwell’ time standards even more.

“CBO’s report concludes that the cost of the President’s plan to ‘surge’ troops will be higher than previously indicated, both in dollar terms and in the burdens it places on our military.”

UPDATE 2:06 PM: As they say on the Internet, "WTF?" Gen. George Casey, the nominee for Army chief of staff, "told a Senate panel Thursday that improving security in Baghdad would take fewer than half as many extra troops as President Bush has chosen to commit," the AP is reporting.

Asked by Sen. John Warner, R-Va., why he had not requested the full five extra brigades that Bush is sending, Casey said, "I did not want to bring one more American soldier into Iraq than was necessary to accomplish the mission."

With many in Congress opposing or skeptical of Bush's troop buildup, Casey did not say he opposed the president's decision. He said the full complement of five brigades would give U.S. commanders in Iraq additional, useful flexibility.

"In my mind, the other three brigades should be called forward after an assessment has been made on the ground" about whether they are needed to ensure success in Baghdad, Casey said. later.

Now, Casey has long been skeptical of a troop increase. "It's a tough nut, whether or not bringing in more troops, more US troops will have a significant long term impact on the violence," he said back in October. And just the other day, Casey was arguing that any additional boots on the ground could be removed by the summer. So this feels like we're seeing the edges of an internal squabble between the White House and the Army brass. Or maybe between general and general.

UPDATE 02/02/07 6:36 PM: The White House is denying the CBO report.

(Big ups: JA)
February 1, 2007 12:22 PM | Money Money Money, Strategery, War Update |
Comments

But barely two months into the July-awarded concept exploration contracts, Lisa Porter, NASA's new associate administrator for aeronautics, told the teams on Aug. 30 that there no longer was funding for a demonstrator. Team members are trying to devise cheaper alternatives for the next phase of research, but turmoil continues in the agency's aeronautics plans.

Posted by: wowpowerleveling at May 26, 2008 01:58 AM

It is not appropriate to lie by saying falsely that Bush lied.

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Posted by: Overseas Removal at May 6, 2008 05:37 AM

But of course!

Posted by: 中港貨運 at April 22, 2008 01:59 AM

Not neccessarily a lie. Possibly another calculated mis-direct or, nearly as bad, a basic misunderstanding by our esteemed Commander in Chief.

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VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran’s medical care (for injuries received in the line of duty) has been stopped for a political weapon. In March of 07 I entered the Portsmouth VA clinic in NH. Per order of Mark Levenston Director of the NH VA I was denied medical care for serious head pain and drooping of the left side of my face. In June of 07 a Dr Dan Potenza arraigned for me to see a Dr in the Manchester NH VA Hospital. After a token exam I was advised nothing was wrong. In Sept 07 Dr Dan arraigned for me to have a “Cat Scan” which revealed a spot on my brain. I have lived in serious pain for over 6 months. At odd times I pass out. Some times I loose my ability to hold a fork when eating. My left eye closes some times against my will. A Disabled U.S. Veteran has high priority for medical care. A veterans medical care can not be stopped because the NH governor wants it stopped. Armed guards meet me at the door and follow me around.
The News media censors these facts. Ask yourself why? NH has declared me a terrorist to deprive me of my freedom. NH state police scare my wife at home and work to intimidate her. All this because I dare state the truth about Judge Peter Fauver violating the Constitution to intentionally harm U.S. citizens.
We have laws to stop abusive of government powers. When the news media refuse to inform the public this increases the abuse. I have violated no laws. What I have done is volunteer to help others since I returned to the “World” U.S. in 1974. I want to die so this spot is a blessing. I want you the people of the United States to understand what has happen here. I know the News will refuse to print the truth so I send this letter to blogs and others. I hope you the citizens of the United States send this letter to your local newspapers and government officials so they understand I gave my life as a United States Marine for the country that I love. I may have been out cast by the American Legion, VFW and Elk’s clubs but they were only trying to protect their image in the public eye. Why help someone that his own NH government discriminates against. The President of the United States “Bush” has shunned me. I may be a no body but I still care about the future of the United States of America.
Peter Macdonald Sgt USMC

Posted by: Peter Macdonald, Lee NH at September 14, 2007 07:14 AM

VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran’s medical care (for injuries received in the line of duty) has been stopped for a political weapon. In March of 07 I entered the Portsmouth VA clinic in NH. Per order of Mark Levenston Director of the NH VA I was denied medical care for serious head pain and drooping of the left side of my face. In June of 07 a Dr Dan Potenza arraigned for me to see a Dr in the Manchester NH VA Hospital. After a token exam I was advised nothing was wrong. In Sept 07 Dr Dan arraigned for me to have a “Cat Scan” which revealed a spot on my brain. I have lived in serious pain for over 6 months. At odd times I pass out. Some times I loose my ability to hold a fork when eating. My left eye closes some times against my will. A Disabled U.S. Veteran has high priority for medical care. A veterans medical care can not be stopped because the NH governor wants it stopped. Armed guards meet me at the door and follow me around.
The News media censors these facts. Ask yourself why? NH has declared me a terrorist to deprive me of my freedom. NH state police scare my wife at home and work to intimidate her. All this because I dare state the truth about Judge Peter Fauver violating the Constitution to intentionally harm U.S. citizens.
We have laws to stop abusive of government powers. When the news media refuse to inform the public this increases the abuse. I have violated no laws. What I have done is volunteer to help others since I returned to the “World” U.S. in 1974. I want to die so this spot is a blessing. I want you the people of the United States to understand what has happen here. I know the News will refuse to print the truth so I send this letter to blogs and others. I hope you the citizens of the United States send this letter to your local newspapers and government officials so they understand I gave my life as a United States Marine for the country that I love. I may have been out cast by the American Legion, VFW and Elk’s clubs but they were only trying to protect their image in the public eye. Why help someone that his own NH government discriminates against. The President of the United States “Bush” has shunned me. I may be a no body but I still care about the future of the United States of America.
Peter Macdonald Sgt USMC

Posted by: Peter Macdonald, Lee NH at September 14, 2007 07:13 AM

Americans have been taught to look at wars like sporting events, cheering for OUR SIDE. Well guess what, this war is bad for most of the planet. Some oil CEOs and weapons manufacturers make a killing off of it, but thousands upon thousands of soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians are killed and maimed.

Iraqis say their problems are now WORSE than when they had Saddam to deal with! What does that tell you? Enough of this "Ra ra ra!" dumb military junk. There's nothing noble, honorable, or brave about illegally invading someone else's country on the pretext of lies & minsinformation.

The American military has NOTHING to be proud of, unless they're proud of acting like little bitches and following the insane demands of King Bush. How pathetic. Every dolt in backwater American thinks he can go to Iraq and then claim himself to be some kind of "hero." It's not that easy. It's more heroic to educate yourself and THINK about what you're actually doing, instead of just acting like a trained attack dog for the liars in the White House.

Posted by: The End at April 12, 2007 07:56 PM

What is everyones problem? Can it not be understood that this surge and the overall direction of our military presence in iraq. We need to get out of everybodies business and go back to our policy of non intervention in foreign wars. It has been proven over and over without a doubt that our own government lied to get us into this war. Not to mention the fact its involvement in the sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Or should I say the event that allowed the patriot act to get voted into law. Our government has broken so many laws of the constitution and bill of rights that it would be hard to count them. And still they are in office. Why?? This constitution that they seem to think nothing about has worked for the us for a long. The politicians have enjoyed the freedom to do as they wish for entirely way to long. They are citizens just like everyone else and they should have to abide by the same laws as we all do. Some would say that it is already to the point of a police state being implemented in the us. I thought that acting now would keep our liberties only to find out that the fight would be to get back the liberties that we have already lost. Those who have sworn to protect this nation and uphold the constitution have not upheld their oath. In fact they are doing everything they can to do away with any oversight at all. This is not a good direction for the us to be going. The farther we venture down this road the harder it will be to get back on track. The NWO is not the answer. The federal reserve bank is not controlled by nor is it held accountable by any governing body. People need to start asking questions that matter. Stop assuming that all is well. Expect the worse and hope and work for the best and maybe in the end you wont be disappointed. Strive for world peace and not just for personal gain. Money is not everything--just ask the families of those soldiers that have fallen while our government stayes the course on its fight against terrorist that itself has funded and trained for years only to make more enemies for america to fight. The only ones who gain from this are the defense contractors(war machine)and the ceos that start and end conflicts to fill their own pockets. god bless america and the rest of the world thank you and have a nice day

Posted by: sam at April 12, 2007 12:07 AM

You people are pathetic.

This war was provably based on lies (Downing Street Memo & Whitehouse Memo).

The Democrats haven't done a single thing because the OIL COMPANIES AND CONTRACTORS DONATE TO BOTH PARTIES.

When can we quit clining to these bought-and-paid-for political parties and stand up as Americans?

We need to get out of this war, cut our spending budget in half, secure the borders and work on legitimate trade agreements that don't reward corporations for taking out economy overseas.

Wake up and quit crying. THE BUSHES VACATION W? THE CLINTONS! It is always the elite vs the middle class throughout history. If you treat these policical parties (in reality a one-party system) like football teams while fighting amongst one another we will never get anywhere!

My God Man


Posted by: Joe at April 11, 2007 12:53 PM

Politcians are always looking for the optimistic estimates. From the looks of things right now, it appears the increase in troops was a good idea. We can't make up for the under-strength beginning of this thing, but we sure can make a dent in it.

Posted by: PhilLeech at April 7, 2007 03:02 PM

Defense Tech.org
Bush is terrorist of 91101, therefore both wars are illegal. Nesara requires the resignation of Bush and Cheney. 9-11-01 happened to keep them in office. See www.nesara.us. Also see www.fourwinds10.com and www.thelibertyclub.net/vicjo9/.
Nesara which was to be announced from Pentegon on September 11, 2001 and will be announced guaranteed by God will return our nation to being a truly free nation under the true Constitution. Believe it. Think upon it.
Prove it. Spread the truth!

For the truth & true freedom,
Victor

Posted by: Victor L. Jordan at February 9, 2007 12:10 PM

Very interesting, seeing how many people here are blaming liberals for the failures of President Bush and his minions.

This cult-like devotion would be touching, were it directly toward something positive.

Posted by: zak822 at February 5, 2007 01:18 PM

The Peninsular War
"The Peninsular War was a major conflict during the Napoleonic Wars, fought on the Iberian Peninsula by an alliance of Spain, Portugal, and Britain against the Napoleonic French Empire. Known as the Spanish War of Independence (Guerra de la Independencia Española) in Spain and in other countries, and as Invasões Francesas (French Invasions) in Portugal, the war began when French armies occupied Spain in 1808 and lasted until the Sixth Coalition defeated Napoleon in 1814.

The Peninsular War was one of the first wars of national liberation and the first guerrilla conflict (a term coined for this war). Its course was largely dictated by Spanish irregulars and the failure of Napoleon's large armies to pacify the people of Spain. French units in Spain forcibly hugged their vulnerable supply lines, were always in danger of being cut off and overwhelmed by the partisans, and were unable to achieve decisive results."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_war

See also:
http://divedi.blogspot.com/2007/01/person-of-day-napoleon.html

Posted by: Dimitar Vesselinov at February 4, 2007 05:31 PM

Tin Foil Hat THIS! - - - Bush says '08 budget takes money FROM domestic spending for "defense" use...

President George W. Bush said on Saturday his upcoming budget proposal would emphasize restraint on domestic spending while making defense and war costs for Iraq and Afghanistan the top priority.

"Cutting the deficit during a time of war requires us to restrain spending in other areas," Bush said in his weekly radio address.

Previewing the fiscal year 2008 budget he will unveil on Monday, Bush also said it would show that his goal of erasing the deficit by 2012 could be accomplished while making his tax cuts permanent.

"Congress needs to make this tax relief permanent, so we can keep America's economy growing. Pro-growth economic policies also play a vital role in our plan to balance the federal budget," he said.

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Bush will propose a 1 percent increase in spending outside defense for fiscal 2008, according to The Washington Post. That would amount to a decrease in programs after accounting for inflation, which is running at about 2.5 percent.

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The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said in a report last month that balancing the budget was possible by 2012. But its assumptions did not factor in an extension of the Bush tax cuts or changes Congress is likely to make to shield middle-class Americans from the alternative minimum tax.

Bush, who addressed House of Representatives Democrats at their retreat in Williamsburg, Virginia, on Saturday, also called for a bipartisan effort to rein in entitlement programs, such as the Medicare health program for older Americans.

"Controlling spending also requires us to address the unsustainable growth of entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid," Bush said. "Spending for these programs is growing faster than inflation, faster than our economy, and faster than our ability to pay for it.

Bush's budget will propose squeezing about $70 billion in savings from the Medicare and Medicaid health programs over the next five years, an administration official said.

This story ©Reuters 02-03-07

Posted by: mrk at February 3, 2007 11:00 PM

Vis a vis deployment for attack against Iran: I do not think the current aim is for anything much bigger than regaining control of at least central Baghdad. The situation right now can be compared to an invading army controlling Manhattan (Green zone) and nt much else, surrounded by a war between the burroughs.

As for lie/not lie, its at least an interesting number-game, and sets up a whole new logistical and financial perspective on this surge. Id advise y´all to take a look ad Sadr city at google maps. Good luck picking a fight there against Iranian trained lebanon-veterans. Bush is picking a fight he can not win, and the question lingering behind is why..

Posted by: MK at February 2, 2007 03:10 PM

Numbers are Impressive

So were the US troop numbers in Nam too, if you read, About Face by Hackworth, or Soldiers Story by Herbert, two of American’s top battlefield commanders, with all those numbers in Nam most were in rear areas, and many of line units were shorthanded … or combat areas..
If you fail to plan, plan to fail. So if you have all those troops in Iraq, what are you going to do? What is the plan, walking bullet catchers or hunting down the enemy, and what is the QRF, elements Quick Reactionary Force plans ?
Cause when the sheet hits the fan, its gong to be quick and deadly, somebody better be there, and the QRF will need a QRF, over and over again, the QRF is ambushed running out to help.. another unit..

Posted by: stephen at February 2, 2007 05:55 AM

For every 1 shooter it usually requires 4-6 non-shooters in order to get them in place. That's how war works.

Are we on the same planet?

[[[[Hello, over]]]]

Posted by: RTLM at February 2, 2007 02:23 AM

lies...
please join in
So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ

If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you…
I suggest sending one to each of your state’s senators and possibly a spare couple to a senator in a state near you

They usually request a name, address, and leave room for your topic and statement… I prefer to use different topics so they get the notes from different of their staff readers… for example; ETHICS is one of my favorites

If you don’t know a zip code from that state picks one from
http://www.paweb2.com/zip.htm
Which is a list of states and zip codes?

And of course, who really wants to hear from these guys with their standard blah blah form letter… I usually use a “random” address such as
oreilly@foxnews.com

I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME IN THIS HUGE ENDEVOR TO EDUCATE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ON WHAT WE ARE REALLY THINKING

Thank you all for your support, and should you wish to contact me…
Just send your note to oreilly@foxnews.com.
8^)

Posted by: mark mywords at February 2, 2007 12:38 AM

Has anyone else thought about the possible "real" reason we are sending all these 21,500 troops and the added "support" troops to Iraq?? Could it be another positioning for battle toward Iran?? This way the prez can begin his war with Iran and claim he has the troops on the ground to fight it - well before Congress can do anything about it!?

Isn't this the admins "Method of Operation"? Don't be surprised if it turns out that this is the next step in aligning his ships and missils - and now the ground troops - for his next war.

Sounds like a "war plan" to me - at least to get the war started - no plan thereafter as to what will happen after he attacks Iran - WWIII!!?? or Armageddon???

Posted by: yankee clipper at February 2, 2007 12:38 AM

The CBO seems to be on the money with this. Check out what the CBO told the Senate Republicans in 2002 about the cost of going to war with Iraq.

They did not listen and did it anyway. We are paying the price and will do so for years to come. I will be dead...My grandchildren and their children will still be paying.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/38xx/doc3822/09-30-Iraq.pdf

Posted by: Yurde at February 2, 2007 12:34 AM

So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ

If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you…
I suggest sending one to each of your state’s senators and possibly a spare couple to a senator in a state near you

They usually request a name, address, and leave room for your topic and statement… I prefer to use different topics so they get the notes from different of their staff readers… for example; ETHICS is one of my favorites

If you don’t know a zip code from that state picks one from
http://www.paweb2.com/zip.htm
Which is a list of states and zip codes?

And of course, who really wants to hear from these guys with their standard blah blah form letter… I usually use a “random” address such as
oreilly@foxnews.com

I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME IN THIS HUGE ENDEVOR TO EDUCATE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ON WHAT WE ARE REALLY THINKING

Thank you all for your support, and should you wish to contact me…
Just send your note to oreilly@foxnews.com.
8^)

Posted by: mark mywords at February 2, 2007 12:30 AM

Dear fellow Americans,

I love you, but you are so gullible! It is very late now, and you are still far from seeing the real nature of the beast.

You live in a country which is managed like a corporation.

For decades your economic and psychological environment has been so doctored as to produce passive, divided populace, confused and incapable of seeing the big picture.

Your cultural life has been manipulated as well. You watched the show as if hypnotized.

You have absorbed values, assumptions, prejudices and beliefs that were intended for you, wholesale. You actually gave up on seeing the world with your own eyes.

You learned to do what it takes for a dollar without asking questions. You are used to looking the other way and saying 'not my problem'. It’s all catching up with you now.

The conditioning was successful, and your collective behaviour is totally predicable now.

You still believe in democracy, but in fact you are being lead by the hand.

There is a class of professionals who can play you and your institutions anyway they want.

Yes, Bush is despicable, but he is not the real problem. The problem is systemic; it runs much, much deeper.

Now your country is a toy in the hands of shadowy elites with the most terrifying of agendas. It will take rivers of blood to turn it around. God help us!

Andrzej

Posted by: Andrzej at February 1, 2007 10:57 PM

George Bush is nothing but a Dictator. A want to be Stalin. He cares nothing about anyone but himself. He is lier and uses terror to scare the puplic.
To all the supports of Bush. Old, young disabled, male or female. You need to fight his battle for him Iraq and where ever he leads you. Get off you couch and go with George to do the fighting. Quit calling other people names put your life on the line and shout your mouth. Quit using the military and do it yourself, unless you are scared. And if you are scared then SHOUT UP.

Posted by: Joe at February 1, 2007 10:33 PM

Michael McCullough raises some interesting points in an otherwise rather silly thread. He argues that bush won Florida fair and square. This is a oft-repeated argument for which there is ample evidence to the contrary. Mike, try reading Jews for Buchanan, an partial discussion of the vote and one which is heavily supported by documentation.

I also watch C-SPAN and find about equal amounts of criticism (none terribly abusive but most quite critical in the same fashion with which Clinton was bashed) and fawning praise of our war chief. I entered military service the same day he did but no one gave me time off for golf/political campaigning. On the whole he seems to be getting a "fair and balanced" ride from C-SPAN. One wonders if Hitler would have been given the same level of deference.

As to warrantless arrests, I lived in a South American country under military rule. Let me tell you Mike, if you knew what you were so casually talking about, you wouldn't be so quick to brush it aside with a non-sequitur. A traffic ticket arrest is covered by law. Comparing that to political kidnapping and physical torture is both absurd and disingenuous.

And lastly the reference to fascism is neither specious nor irrelevant. Mike would do well to read a recent history by Richard J. Evans entitled The Coming of the Third Reich and note the parallels. But then that may be asking too much of a smug ideolog.

Posted by: bman at February 1, 2007 09:35 PM

A Tin Foil Hat, eh? Do ya think that'll do it, Mister Smarty Pants?

Actually, I wish the CIA WOULD listen to me MORE often. As it is they only listen some of the time. The rest of the time they go on and do something else entirely. - But that's okay - as long as their checks don't bounce. (They pay pretty well.)

Now let's discuss YOUR little problem: Shouldn't you put down that bong and finish your homework? You'll never get your G.E.D. messing about on your mom's computer in the middle of the afternoon. Moron!

Some people do not have the capacity to grapple with the larger picture. Some lack historical context and life experience. Other folk simply suffer from a short attention span. -- That's why we 'tin foil hat' guys get paid the big bucks!

Money drives the whole shebang, pardner - the former USA needs to control the ME carbon deposits because in a very short time China is going to be eyeballing that crude rather jealously. China already has the US by the short and curlies because the Busites borrowed so heavily FROM CHINA to finance their whole NeoCon-job dawg'n'pony show: giving 'tax breaks' to the multimillionaire class... and fighting a needless war.

Pay attention, boy - the real story is even bigger story than your tiny mind can imagine. Now get off the computer and finish your homework, kid!


Posted by: mrk at February 1, 2007 09:19 PM

To Mike McCullough and the question of the Hitler comparison, I agree, it is an unfair comparison. Hitler wasn't burdened with the US Constitution so many of his crimes weren't even crimes. That made it easier. Bush himself said it's easier if you're a dictator.
And Hitler wrote his own plan for world domination and aggression in Mein Kampf, Bush is using the playbook of the neo-cons at PNAC (the Project for the New American Century, and of course Hitler served his time in the military, not in some country club outfit. (didn't have them in post WWI Germany.) And Hitler had to burn his own Reichstag, Bush's just went the corruption route when they saw the new attorney general and they stopped making laws and watching what the executive branch was doing.
And it took Hitler 5 years to invade Austria, Bush had his first invasion in his first year, and of course Hitler had given up reading childrens' stories while he was serving time for his beliefs before taking office. Our guy was doing fairy tales when 3000 of his countrymen died. So you're right, comparisons are always odious and this one is expecially maligning to the 20th century's most historic figure.

Posted by: deceivednotdefeated at February 1, 2007 08:52 PM


This is old stuff.

See URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoliticalEssays/message/869

Posted by: Jerry Aspar at February 1, 2007 08:04 PM

More troops, less troops. Whatever. If everyone to the left of Trent Lott will kindly yell "Bush is Hitler" in unison, we can move onto your next well constructed argument.

But I think the Democrats and the MSM need to get their list of talking points straight. Shrieking "Too many troops!" and "Not enough troops!" in the same news cycle is just poor form; they're not even trying anymore.

Posted by: John at February 1, 2007 07:19 PM

Stephen:

You claim that Iraq's WMDs went on an airplane to Damascus (must've been a heckuva big airplane) and then wonder why the media didn't report this...that's not the wonder at all. If this story is true, why didn't Bush himself talk about it?

Or is it that Bush has lied so often he doesn't know how to deal with the truth even when it would help him?

Posted by: Danny Adams at February 1, 2007 07:01 PM

"We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich."

Don't forget that Chimpy McHitlerburton and the CIA can read your mind unless you're wearing a tin foil hat. After reading your post, I'm pretty sure that you've got your tinfoil hat on.

President Bush won Florida after some areas were hand-counted no less than 5 times -- all areas which Gore got to pick, not Bush. The Supreme Court stopped Gore on a vote of 7 to 2, with 2 of the 7 disagreeing on the remedy but agreeing that Gore's shenanigans had gone on long enough.

I can't open a newspaper or turn on the news or watch C-SPAN without seeing Bush called the vilest things, so I don't where you got the idea that people are afraid to speak out.

As for arrests without warrants, that's happened every day since the country was founded. Ever see a drunk driver get pulled over and arrested? There were no warrants in that situation. I don't think you even know what a warrant is.

Finally, your Fourth Reich imagery is ludicrous. Read the history books on what happened in the Third Reich and compare it with today. Your nonsense proves that people with tiny minds can be compelled to believe anything if fed enough propaganda.

Posted by: Michael McCullough at February 1, 2007 06:48 PM

This administration will stand head and shoulders above its predecessors for all it has
accomplished: destroying the richest republic on
earth, turning America into a semi-fascist state,
bankrupting the federal treasury, turning the media into hired lapdogs and prostitutes, ending
the freedoms of American citizens in exchange for
"protection" from alleged terrorism, and also
creating a state of perpetual war which has already cost the lives of hundreds of thousands,
and we're just getting going good. When Reagan
spoke of an "evil empire" we didn't know it would
turn out to be us. We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people
are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich.

Posted by: Cosmo at February 1, 2007 06:24 PM

What are we going to do with 100,000 demobilized mercenaries?

Posted by: Jack Parsons at February 1, 2007 06:23 PM

I think enough is enough to be debating an issue that needs to be resolved soon. The quicker the better. Only common sense can tell

Posted by: makesenseofit at February 1, 2007 06:15 PM

I wanted to be a merc in Iraq with blackwater, but I guess you got to have your not up someones butt to get in.

Posted by: james at February 1, 2007 05:56 PM

At this point Bush is pretty much against the wall. I mean, will not the new democratic congress start cutting funds and bring the troops home? Why don't they vote to do it? I mean what is wrong with this new congress? A non-Binding legislation, sounds like a bunch of fools talk. The Democratic Party needs to stick it to Bushes face and tell him who the real boss is, You Know, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The Democratic Party Led by these two neeed to make some quick legislation to end this war once and for all. Im sick of hearing all this bull crap from the Democratic leaders that we need to pull out now. Let's do it. Cut the funds now I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for action, no more wolly gaggling!!! You hear me reid ? Pelosi? To quote Ted Kennedy "Hello?---Hello?------Hello? Are we just hearing a bunch of rheteric from our leaders? nothing solid or compound? Tell Bush to stick it!!!!!!!!!! Time for a congressional cloture vote get all 60 of those dinosaurs out on the carpet and vote to cut funding to this damn war!!!! We in this country are the biggest bunch of losers to stand here and let the war continue. We are so stupid to be led around by the likes of the Bush War Room BOSSING us around! well no more of that, no more of that. Oh yeah and lets not forget who helped to vote us in there in the first place. HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU HILLARY CLINTON, SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!! Where was your inspiration when we needed it most huh? WHERE WERE YOU?!!!!!!!!!! WHEN WE NEEDED YOU? your out there campaigning now saying your in to win and how if you knew then what you knew now you would not have voted for the millions of dollars and troops for this what bush billed as the war on terror. You gave him all your support by voting for this! HONEY, you made your bed, and now you will sleep in it!!!!! Your campaigning will all be in vain cause you supported this war!!!!! how dare you stick the finger at us HILLARY CLINTON!!!! You do not have my support or my vote you screwed me and every democrat out there! Saying to potential voters that now if u knew then what you knew now? Not good enough Mrs. Clinton. Not Good enough. Have you not played chess before? You should have had the intuition of where this war was going to go. A vote for you is a vote for a traitor. At least Bush isnt so spineless despite all the bull crap he has dished out to us, he, has't been a traitor to his own party! Its one thing to start this bull crap war were in and to stick to your guns, like he has, he remains one of the most hated men in the country if not the most hated man period point blank. But you!!!!!! You totally played the traitors part in your vote for money for the war. You Gave your party the finger and you have let rest your political fire power on the couch eating lays potatoe chips!!!!!! not to mention while watching My name is earl, of all shows, yeah, u know him as the character who has the list of things he has trying to make right with all these people he wronged in life. Well you screwed the democratic party, forever. I do not think voters will forgive you for signing on with Bush and giving him money for the war. You in my mind will forever be a bush supporter, no amount of campaining will change that. Its my hope that the dems will totally get their act in gear and change this, but i do not see it happening, there to stuck on stupid. IM sick off this party of mine. Im upset that my leaders will not do what i voted them in to do in the first place. I want this war done and over with. I hate war, and i cant stand anymore hypocrisy from my own party. I don't know if bush lied or not, but i do know the people i voted for, are not doing what i voted them in to do, and for heavens sake, Will some one please tell Nancy and Dirty harry to do their jobs? people voted them in there for a reason , hello ?

Posted by: bESIDE MYSELF at February 1, 2007 05:07 PM

but bush spends like a lib
Posted by: howdy_studly at February 1, 2007 04:35 PM

Hey, buddy.
Didn't anybody ever teach you
that labels are bad? That they can
be wrong or change?

Just as we now realize that Republicans
no longer deserve the labels
"conservative" or "compassionate"
You should realize that libs aren't "spenders"

We favor pay-go. We favor fairness in the
tax code (meaning richies should pay their
fair share too). WE want to get control of
war profiteering and embezzling.

You should stop parrotting your stereotypical lib
bashing and take a look at reality for a change.

Reality is we had a budget surplus when Clinton
was in and a record deficit with your guy.

Posted by: DemandTruth at February 1, 2007 04:46 PM

Bush lied?
Alert the media!

Posted by: Bubbaboy at February 1, 2007 04:41 PM

even republicans are abandoning bush... i am 'conservative'... i voted republican because it 'used to be' a 'conservative' party... but bush spends like a lib, and panders to illegal aliens like a lib... he is, in fact, a lib. bush has destroyed the republican party. his agenda of 'born again christianity' is not 'conservative' (it is religious). bush's attempt to re-invigorate the 12th century crusade of christians against islam has led the country down a path of over-spending. the democratic party is beginning to look more 'conservative' than the republican party (e.g. 'pay as you go', and ending the war). mr. bush... you have done a disservice to yourself, the republican party, all conservatives and your country. JMHO

Posted by: howdy_studly at February 1, 2007 04:35 PM

Just curious, what side will these extra brigades be fighting to defend? The Sunnis or the Shiites? And: Is a war within a country that has 3 factions fighting each other still called a "civil war?"

Posted by: L. Jordan at February 1, 2007 04:32 PM

In response to Andrew who sounds like a total moron. In the first place Andrew, an aircraft carrier has about 5500 sailors and marines. They have the capacity to carry 3 times the number of aircraft you came up with (25). Not just F-16's, but F-18 Super Hornets as well. Second of all, the pipelines in Iraq have been continually blown up and even the Iraqi people have to wait in line for gas. Much of which is black market. That is one reason why you are paying so much at the pump. Third, Exxon broke their own record for profits made, 39Billion, with a "B". Forth, Iran has had missiles that were capable of striking our carriers for the past couple of years. I emailed the commander of the Kennedy 2 years ago because I was concerned about this very thing. You see, I have a daughter in the U.S. Navy who is stationed on an aircraft carrier. She has been to the gulf. I am a former marine and have a son in the marines who has been to Iraq and thank God returned safely. This time. I am sure if Iran really were inclined, they would hit our carriers. I think Bush is the instigator and is trying to pick a fight and is p.o.'d because Iran is exercising restraint. Maybe you should get off the trading floor once in a while and do some research. And remember, it wasn't Iraq or Iran that killed your friends at the WTC on 9/11. Bin Laden bin forgotten was allegedly the one responsible but of course he is still on the loose and Bush doesn't think about him much because he's really not that important. (said by Bush himself at a press gaggle 03/14/04)

Posted by: fubar at February 1, 2007 04:29 PM

Maybe the best way to stop the blowback of terrorist tactics would be to stop screwing around with other nations. For Example when the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran in 1953 and replacing it with a tyrant. After the blowback of 1979 the CIA threw it's support behind Saddam Hussein, giving him WMDS. The CIA supported Al Queda/Bin Laden!
It's been 1,963 days since WMD said he'd catch Weekend At Osama's Dead or Alive. USA! USA! USA!

Posted by: Post American at February 1, 2007 04:27 PM

The next time anyone decides to take us to war, the first rule of order must be that every member of the Administration, including the President himself/herself, as well as all voting members of Congress, must supply either one son, daughter, or other relative if they have no son or daughter, to fight the new war on the front lines. No exceptions, no deferments. Sine the rich gain the most in this country from advancing our "causes", they should be made to sacrifice for those benefits. And I guaranty you, if this law is passed, you won't have to worry about any more Vietnam or Iraq type wars! The next war we ever get into would be one worth fighting.

Posted by: Joe at February 1, 2007 04:25 PM

Poor martyred America.

Blowback is such a bitch.

We ONLY have over half a million U.S. troops, spies, contractors and dependents stationed on a network of 737 American military bases in 130+ countries, not counting the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, many in countries whose people have not agreed to it.

""blowback" does not just mean retaliation for things our government has done to, and in, foreign countries. It refers specifically to retaliation for illegal operations carried out abroad that were kept totally secret from the American public. These operations have included the clandestine overthrow of governments various administrations did not like, the training of foreign militaries in the techniques of state terrorism, the rigging of elections in foreign countries, interference with the economic viability of countries that seemed to threaten the interests of influential American corporations, as well as the torture or assassination of selected foreigners. The fact that these actions were, at least originally, secret meant that when retaliation does come - as it did so spectacularly on September 11, 2001 - the American public is incapable of putting the events in context. Not surprisingly, then, Americans tend to support speedy acts of revenge intended to punish the actual, or alleged, perpetrators. These moments of lashing out, of course, only prepare the ground for yet another cycle of blowback."
-Chalmers Johnson, @ TomsDispatch.com

Posted by: Olive Oil at February 1, 2007 04:19 PM

I look forward to seeing the Entire US Government brought to justice with rope, tar, and feathers. We are borrowing 8 Billion Dollars A WEEK from China for the Occupation of Iraq. We either need a war tax or we need to get the hell out of Iraq.

Posted by: Post American at February 1, 2007 04:17 PM

I love how the country woke up in 2006 and threw these republican hypocrits out of office.

For you idiot neocons who are still calling everyone else "anti-america traitors", keep it up-that's how you became the minority. With a few more insults you'll ensure you the GOP is nothing more than a memory. You've insulted literally everyone now, you've called us all anti american traitors, and in the process you isolated your party from mainstream america. Good job, dunces.

Posted by: willis at February 1, 2007 04:08 PM

RE:Posted by: karla_homolka at February 1, 2007 03:33 PM

Great recap of the events after 9/11. You only made one false assumption, that is OBL and 18 ragtag Saudi's were alone behind the 9/11 attacks. Not the case..... there is enough proof out there now to totally disprove that assumption and also to make a case that it was an inside job. Go to some of these web sites and see for yourself.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
http://www.911inplanesite.com/
http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN;_user_op=view&ANN;_id=16
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911information
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/

Posted by: keyman12 at February 1, 2007 04:05 PM

Impeach Chimp and the puppet master or have him step down since he was never elected but selected with crooks and daddys suppprreemm court.

Posted by: hobojo at February 1, 2007 03:52 PM

When I asked a friend of mine in the reserves who was just called up if He was going, He said that He thought so because sending 20,000 troops would probably entail deploying and additional 2-3 support personnel or contractors and as a mechanic he felt like He would return. Now He didn't think anybody lied to him. I didn't think I had been lied to and I don't understand anybody that is looking to make it a lie. When all the Dems were hollering about sending more Troops (as recent as 2 months ago) you would have thought sending 50,000 Troops would just trip their Trigger. But now with their criticism it really shows that it is just "Political Undermining" that they are interested in, NOT WINNING". Most of the people I know that are in the Military while they might have many gripes, feel like they are being undermined in their Mission and do not understand why!

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:42 PM

MRK, Shhhhhhh CIA is listening to you. Its all a conspiracy. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH. There coming for you MRK. Maybe you should put tin foil on your head they could be listening to your thoughts.

Posted by: MRK there is CIA listening to you at February 1, 2007 03:35 PM

a recap... the usa got hit by OBL on 911... the adminstration needed to react to show the people that they were 'doing something'... cheney orchestrated an attack on iraq by producing phoney documents about iraq having weapons of mass destruction... bush launched an unjustified attack and quickly claimed victory with his now famous 'mission accomplished' banner... no wmd were found... the 'war' against 'our enemies' continued and escalated nevertheless... this 'war' will continue until we reach the conclusion that we did with vietnam, which is, we have the technology to bomb the sh*t out of anyone but we do not have the will, technology, savvy, know-how to destroy an enemy that we cannot differentiate from the law abiding citizens of the same country.

Posted by: karla_homolka at February 1, 2007 03:33 PM

patriot..??? I want to start by saying thank you. I read your post and shared it on the trading floor with everyone.. The best laugh we've had in here since the new year started.. thank you. Now to quickly break down your obviously researched, well educated, and factually based argument..... right, we've been in iraq for about 4 years now.. All that oil coming through that huge pipeline we built from Iraq to the U.S. is really helping us out... ur a genious.. Was that why I've been paying about $3/gallon? Wait does less oil or more raise or lower the prices.? Hell I don't even know what im talking about. I figured all that oil we've been stealing would drop it down to about $1/gallon, but I've somehow got to be wrong. Oh wait my favorite part.. Iran has missiles... that can sink all of our naval ships?? well hell, if I didnt no any better, its sounds like someone from the Iranian defense dept was spreading some propaganda on here... well, we have two carriers, each with about 2,000 sailors and about 25 f16's on board riding ur ass on the border, with another on the way... why havent you guys fired a shot yet?? i think i know.. We wouldnt waste time invading Iran, we would flat out just shit all over you. patriot, thank you again for the bullshit synopsis that has all of our troops oh yeah, and government raping everyone in the middle east. Cause I cant really remember if we were over there or not before some uneducated (like urself clearly) brainwashed scumbags flew jets into the WTC killing relatives and friends of mine. if only they were still here to read your post.. then i could tell them they'd be on the way to hell with me for all the harm we've cause the environment.. I just want to send you a nice tree you can plant in your (im guessing) tiny yard so you can plant it, and nurture it , and hug it all day long while you have no job and bash the govt.. ur the best patriot.. keep on being the patriot you are.. Peace brother.. Pass the love along.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 03:30 PM

Will someone please tell me when John Warner became a liberal-commie-pot-smoking-terrorist-hugger? Did I miss a meeting? Seig heil der Bush always and forever! Common sense be damned! We don't need common sense because we're AMERICAAAAAAAA!

You Bushies are so fucking stupid.

Posted by: Alex at February 1, 2007 03:30 PM

Sorry dude, it is a lie. This from the State of the Union address:

So we're deploying reinforcements of more than 20,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Iraq.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/
2007/01/20070123-2.html

It doesn't say 20,000 combat troops, just troops. If we send 48,000 troops instead of something close to 20,000 it is just a lie.

Posted by: CentFla at February 1, 2007 03:28 PM

THE OIL is only a small part of the story. "Combating Islamic 'fascism" is a fable created for popular consumption.

The real reason for the while shituation is larger. It's about GLOBAL HEGEMONY and PROFITS. Large corporate inter tests drive policy. On this continent there are large corporations whose products are directly related to war as a business, i.e. killing on an industrial scale. They develop weapons systems, manufacture weapons, market and sell weapon$. Among these: GE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lockheed/Martin and Boeing to name the more familiar. Then there are the corporations and engineering firms who service the business of war and industrial scale killing. Among these firms are the familiar Brown & Root, Halliburton, Bechtel - long known in engineering circles as 'the CIA's engineering firm.' Then there are the numerous corporate 'security, mercenary, or "Soldier-of-Fortune' organizations. Too numerous to mention. As well as the fossil fuel interests which everyone presumes are involved from the get go.

ALL of these are large companies employ huge numbers of people and rake in large contracts from the DOD/Pentagon thereby sucking up vast amounts of US taxpayer monies. ALL these firms employ armies of economists whose job includes developing forecasts: 'how to keep the gravy train running smoothly and in perpetuity.'

When the Soviet bloc retired from their role as 'designated enemy' the economists and policy makers at the weapons manufacturers et al listed above began to search for a new 'threat' to keep domestic paranoia at an appropriate level. Since no one stepped forth in the global arena to volunteer to be our new 'designated enemy' it was determined that the US would simply 'create a new enemy' by kicking sand in Haji's face.

Over the past decade we have witnessed the public face of that ongoing strategy. The plan included 9/11 as well as the installation an administration sympathetic to this plan. THE reason Osama has not been captured (yet) is, he more valuable as a threat than he is as a prisoner or a corpse. The reason the US has not achieved a 'victory' in Iraq is that the purpose is NOT to achieve a 'victory.' The real agenda is to stay in theater long enough to piss off and radicalize a whole population and an entire generation of Islamic young men, turning them into fanatical US haters and thus insure that the US will have a visible, 'dangerous' enemy for the next three decades.

When administration talking heads and NeoCons talk about the 'long war' or 'generational warfare' or say that we will be fighting Islamic fundies for 30 years we are getting a quick glimpse behind the infamous curtain of their long term strategy.

What it reveals is a tragic lack of imagination in the highest, most powerful levels of corporate/government planning. A one trick pony lack of imagination. After half century of keeping the economy afloat through weapons development, weapons manufacture and weapons marketing they have no other skillset or product to fall back on. They HAVE to keep making weapons because that is the only trick they have. IN order to have the continued support of the population for this plan enemies are necessary. Swarthy hordes of Middle Eastern Islamic 'facsists' have cast in this role. Iraq is only the recruitment phase. This is just the beginning. We have almost 25 more years to go.

Fasten your seat belts.


Posted by: mrk at February 1, 2007 03:27 PM

Speaking of pussies 'Ric' ... do you currently serve in the military?

Posted by: Alex at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM

patriot at February 1, 2007 03:13 PM

In short, I tell You that not only are you the real LOON but nobody in their right mind could make the statements that you made with a strait face. talk about Rabid Left. Could anybody defend your statements as fact.

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM

Why do people insist on seeing the problem as "cowardly liberals"? Conservatives writing for The American Coservative and other respected conservative forums have been screaming about Bush's "adventure in Iraq" since Day 1. Republican Chuck Hagel is hardly a cowardly liberal. Jim Webb is hardly a cowardly liberal. The various and sundry Generals and former Secretaries of Defense & State who oppose Bush policy are hardly liberals. Get a grip!

Posted by: cadbury at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM

Sean, OH MY! You can't tell the Liberal that we are a Representative Republic. They think we are a Democracy. Public Schools you know. They think that winning the popular vote gets you the POTUS. We stole oil but our gas prices have been higher than ever. Those evil gas companies made 39bil in profit. But no one says they paid 100bil in taxes. For every stupid uninformed argument the Libias have there is a stronger counterpoint. By the way I don't know how many dumbyas graduated from both Yale and Harvard.

Posted by: Liberal really like Little Boys at February 1, 2007 03:23 PM

Anyone who believes a word the little dictator and draft dodger says is wearing blinders and needs counseling and sympathy from all with sound mind.

Posted by: hobojo at February 1, 2007 03:23 PM

Just because you don't understand that when it is discussed to send 20,000 troops into the front lines in a theater of war it is a given that they will need additional logistical support doesn't make the Commander in Chief a liar. A Lie is when you say that most Americans hate Bush when it is a fact that 51% of the voting population voted for him. Just because you didn't doesn't make him illegal. In our civilized Republic, when a man becomes the elected Leader of the Country, he should be entitled to a modicum of respect and support out of respect for the majority that voted him in and out of patriotism for our Great Country. When He is undermined in every thing He does by the rabid left and loses the support of the populace then everything we do will turn to crap. 75% of the populace and even more of the Congress supported this action in an area that is vital for us and the world. How does that make it illegal. For people to now claim that they were hoodwinked is ridiculous. Its Political Opportunists that take advantage of the "Do Gooder Left". Its obvious they would have turned on our country no matter what the excuse. The blood is on their hands for not following thru with the support "our Men" need in a theater of war. The Men that have died have now died over "political undermining".
If this country went "ROMAN", it could takeover the Middle East in a couple of months yet because We are not united we can't even protect our vital interests without it being a Fiasco. I for one had really thought that we had learned a lesson from Viet Nam. Its obvious that we will have to wait until we are hit again before we can feel "justified to defend our best interests". It is worse in the long run to lose than it is to be mistaken. Time will tell that We should have done this with everything we had and even then it will still all be blamed on Bush like its his fault the "Islamic Fascist" are against Us.

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:17 PM

Andrew, 2:49pm:

You are a loon. You have no clue whatsoever about what is happening or why.

The bush crime family committed the Iraq Mass Murder Campaign for three reasons:
1) to steal the oil
2) to "protect" Israel, the country that controls bush
3) as an imperial adventure, i.e., invading a country, murdering, raping, and torturing its inhabitants, all with the goal of putting themselves in Saddam's place as a world class terrorist in control of a strategically important country. They have succeeded in the second two and are now putting in place #1.

Fools such as yourself will cheer happily as the bush crime family commits more mass murder in Iran -- this time with horrendous blowback on our troops and ships in the Gulf. Iran has unstoppable cruise missiles which they will use to sink ALL of our ships in the Gulf, causing tens of thousands of deaths among our sailors within only a few hours. You are partly responsible for this as an assholic fascist who supports dumbya the demented decider. You will rot in hell, appropriately, for your small part in the murder, torture, maiming, incinerating, and mangling of hundreds of thousands of human beings, and the destruction of the environment of a whole country with depleted uranium.

You are, in short, scum.

Posted by: patriot at February 1, 2007 03:13 PM

You pussies that (probably unlike your sex partner) wanna pull out before the job is done are such short -sited cry babies its pathetic. No wonder youre such cry babies. How long would America and Europe have survived if the gutless attitude like yours was the domineering one in WWII. The pussies in the UK and France except for Winston Churchill wouldnt believe the threat of Hitler until the bastard bombed their cities and then occupied their countries. You pussies are the best example yet of History repeating itself.The wmd's are out there and your crying.. Bush is a liar. Pussies!

Posted by: Ric at February 1, 2007 03:12 PM

Infidel, I'm with you. Where is everyone on here from?? I can only narrow it down to San Fransisco, or hollywood... It's pathedic all the same.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 03:11 PM

War is Peace. Live with it.

Posted by: Honest Georg at February 1, 2007 03:11 PM

Ok you Bush lied people died phonys. FACT Sodomy Hussien had and used WMD on his own people. FACT Bill and Shrillary both thought Sodomy Hussein had WMD through their own research. FACT Their own words by the way. FACT The US never saw proof of the weapons being destroyed. FACT liberals are hypocrits. By the way how many weopons constitute WMD. 1 war head with enough Sarin to kill 20000 poeple? FACT double FACT! They found this. Do your research and stop taking everything on MoveON.org to bleeding heart. FACT The media does not report the positive happenings in Iraq. FACT triple FACT. More people die in the USA from medication errors than have died in IRAQ. The ratio is 200,000:3000. OH NO!!! Let's pull the doctors out of the hospitals there are peopled ying. Get the job done. Liberals I know you don't have jobs except working for Gov't so please when I say job I mean in regualar society and not City Hall or McDonalds.

Posted by: Liberals Like Little Boys at February 1, 2007 03:09 PM

Did anyone really vote on the war believing Iraq had WMD's...??? and if they were there saddam

Posted by: Air Freight Forwarder at May 26, 2008 03:14 AM


It is not appropriate to lie by saying falsely that Bush lied.

Posted by: Gold Price at May 21, 2008 10:12 AM


let’s step back and very briefly look at the web versus traditional software. With traditional software, you would go

through various design phases starting from specifications, to architecture documentation, to development, to usability

testing, to testing, and eventually to ship. The entire approach had a fairly long lead time (up to years). Once released,

updating the software was difficult and many times very cost prohibitive. This created a very high-bar. The web has removed

almost all those barriers. On the web, we can now experiment and develop software with near real-time feedback and very fast

release cycles.

Posted by: Overseas Removal at May 6, 2008 05:37 AM


But of course!

Posted by: 中港貨運 at April 22, 2008 01:59 AM


Not neccessarily a lie. Possibly another calculated mis-direct or, nearly as bad, a basic misunderstanding by our esteemed Commander in Chief.

Posted by: 普通話課程 at April 22, 2008 01:56 AM


nice to meet you

Posted by: cheap wow gold at April 14, 2008 02:24 AM


Oh, and I can't WAIT until the Bush Administration is finished with their field tests of these machines and roll them out for domestic use. This technology is disgusting.

Posted by: runescape gold at April 7, 2008 02:14 AM


VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran’s medical care (for injuries received in the line of duty) has been stopped for a political weapon. In March of 07 I entered the Portsmouth VA clinic in NH. Per order of Mark Levenston Director of the NH VA I was denied medical care for serious head pain and drooping of the left side of my face. In June of 07 a Dr Dan Potenza arraigned for me to see a Dr in the Manchester NH VA Hospital. After a token exam I was advised nothing was wrong. In Sept 07 Dr Dan arraigned for me to have a “Cat Scan” which revealed a spot on my brain. I have lived in serious pain for over 6 months. At odd times I pass out. Some times I loose my ability to hold a fork when eating. My left eye closes some times against my will. A Disabled U.S. Veteran has high priority for medical care. A veterans medical care can not be stopped because the NH governor wants it stopped. Armed guards meet me at the door and follow me around.
The News media censors these facts. Ask yourself why? NH has declared me a terrorist to deprive me of my freedom. NH state police scare my wife at home and work to intimidate her. All this because I dare state the truth about Judge Peter Fauver violating the Constitution to intentionally harm U.S. citizens.
We have laws to stop abusive of government powers. When the news media refuse to inform the public this increases the abuse. I have violated no laws. What I have done is volunteer to help others since I returned to the “World” U.S. in 1974. I want to die so this spot is a blessing. I want you the people of the United States to understand what has happen here. I know the News will refuse to print the truth so I send this letter to blogs and others. I hope you the citizens of the United States send this letter to your local newspapers and government officials so they understand I gave my life as a United States Marine for the country that I love. I may have been out cast by the American Legion, VFW and Elk’s clubs but they were only trying to protect their image in the public eye. Why help someone that his own NH government discriminates against. The President of the United States “Bush” has shunned me. I may be a no body but I still care about the future of the United States of America.
Peter Macdonald Sgt USMC

Posted by: Peter Macdonald, Lee NH at September 14, 2007 07:14 AM


VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran’s medical care (for injuries received in the line of duty) has been stopped for a political weapon. In March of 07 I entered the Portsmouth VA clinic in NH. Per order of Mark Levenston Director of the NH VA I was denied medical care for serious head pain and drooping of the left side of my face. In June of 07 a Dr Dan Potenza arraigned for me to see a Dr in the Manchester NH VA Hospital. After a token exam I was advised nothing was wrong. In Sept 07 Dr Dan arraigned for me to have a “Cat Scan” which revealed a spot on my brain. I have lived in serious pain for over 6 months. At odd times I pass out. Some times I loose my ability to hold a fork when eating. My left eye closes some times against my will. A Disabled U.S. Veteran has high priority for medical care. A veterans medical care can not be stopped because the NH governor wants it stopped. Armed guards meet me at the door and follow me around.
The News media censors these facts. Ask yourself why? NH has declared me a terrorist to deprive me of my freedom. NH state police scare my wife at home and work to intimidate her. All this because I dare state the truth about Judge Peter Fauver violating the Constitution to intentionally harm U.S. citizens.
We have laws to stop abusive of government powers. When the news media refuse to inform the public this increases the abuse. I have violated no laws. What I have done is volunteer to help others since I returned to the “World” U.S. in 1974. I want to die so this spot is a blessing. I want you the people of the United States to understand what has happen here. I know the News will refuse to print the truth so I send this letter to blogs and others. I hope you the citizens of the United States send this letter to your local newspapers and government officials so they understand I gave my life as a United States Marine for the country that I love. I may have been out cast by the American Legion, VFW and Elk’s clubs but they were only trying to protect their image in the public eye. Why help someone that his own NH government discriminates against. The President of the United States “Bush” has shunned me. I may be a no body but I still care about the future of the United States of America.
Peter Macdonald Sgt USMC

Posted by: Peter Macdonald, Lee NH at September 14, 2007 07:13 AM


Americans have been taught to look at wars like sporting events, cheering for OUR SIDE. Well guess what, this war is bad for most of the planet. Some oil CEOs and weapons manufacturers make a killing off of it, but thousands upon thousands of soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians are killed and maimed.

Iraqis say their problems are now WORSE than when they had Saddam to deal with! What does that tell you? Enough of this "Ra ra ra!" dumb military junk. There's nothing noble, honorable, or brave about illegally invading someone else's country on the pretext of lies & minsinformation.

The American military has NOTHING to be proud of, unless they're proud of acting like little bitches and following the insane demands of King Bush. How pathetic. Every dolt in backwater American thinks he can go to Iraq and then claim himself to be some kind of "hero." It's not that easy. It's more heroic to educate yourself and THINK about what you're actually doing, instead of just acting like a trained attack dog for the liars in the White House.

Posted by: The End at April 12, 2007 07:56 PM


What is everyones problem? Can it not be understood that this surge and the overall direction of our military presence in iraq. We need to get out of everybodies business and go back to our policy of non intervention in foreign wars. It has been proven over and over without a doubt that our own government lied to get us into this war. Not to mention the fact its involvement in the sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Or should I say the event that allowed the patriot act to get voted into law. Our government has broken so many laws of the constitution and bill of rights that it would be hard to count them. And still they are in office. Why?? This constitution that they seem to think nothing about has worked for the us for a long. The politicians have enjoyed the freedom to do as they wish for entirely way to long. They are citizens just like everyone else and they should have to abide by the same laws as we all do. Some would say that it is already to the point of a police state being implemented in the us. I thought that acting now would keep our liberties only to find out that the fight would be to get back the liberties that we have already lost. Those who have sworn to protect this nation and uphold the constitution have not upheld their oath. In fact they are doing everything they can to do away with any oversight at all. This is not a good direction for the us to be going. The farther we venture down this road the harder it will be to get back on track. The NWO is not the answer. The federal reserve bank is not controlled by nor is it held accountable by any governing body. People need to start asking questions that matter. Stop assuming that all is well. Expect the worse and hope and work for the best and maybe in the end you wont be disappointed. Strive for world peace and not just for personal gain. Money is not everything--just ask the families of those soldiers that have fallen while our government stayes the course on its fight against terrorist that itself has funded and trained for years only to make more enemies for america to fight. The only ones who gain from this are the defense contractors(war machine)and the ceos that start and end conflicts to fill their own pockets. god bless america and the rest of the world thank you and have a nice day

Posted by: sam at April 12, 2007 12:07 AM


You people are pathetic.

This war was provably based on lies (Downing Street Memo & Whitehouse Memo).

The Democrats haven't done a single thing because the OIL COMPANIES AND CONTRACTORS DONATE TO BOTH PARTIES.

When can we quit clining to these bought-and-paid-for political parties and stand up as Americans?

We need to get out of this war, cut our spending budget in half, secure the borders and work on legitimate trade agreements that don't reward corporations for taking out economy overseas.

Wake up and quit crying. THE BUSHES VACATION W? THE CLINTONS! It is always the elite vs the middle class throughout history. If you treat these policical parties (in reality a one-party system) like football teams while fighting amongst one another we will never get anywhere!

My God Man


Posted by: Joe at April 11, 2007 12:53 PM


Politcians are always looking for the optimistic estimates. From the looks of things right now, it appears the increase in troops was a good idea. We can't make up for the under-strength beginning of this thing, but we sure can make a dent in it.

Posted by: PhilLeech at April 7, 2007 03:02 PM


Defense Tech.org
Bush is terrorist of 91101, therefore both wars are illegal. Nesara requires the resignation of Bush and Cheney. 9-11-01 happened to keep them in office. See www.nesara.us. Also see www.fourwinds10.com and www.thelibertyclub.net/vicjo9/.
Nesara which was to be announced from Pentegon on September 11, 2001 and will be announced guaranteed by God will return our nation to being a truly free nation under the true Constitution. Believe it. Think upon it.
Prove it. Spread the truth!

For the truth & true freedom,
Victor

Posted by: Victor L. Jordan at February 9, 2007 12:10 PM


Very interesting, seeing how many people here are blaming liberals for the failures of President Bush and his minions.

This cult-like devotion would be touching, were it directly toward something positive.

Posted by: zak822 at February 5, 2007 01:18 PM


The Peninsular War
"The Peninsular War was a major conflict during the Napoleonic Wars, fought on the Iberian Peninsula by an alliance of Spain, Portugal, and Britain against the Napoleonic French Empire. Known as the Spanish War of Independence (Guerra de la Independencia Española) in Spain and in other countries, and as Invasões Francesas (French Invasions) in Portugal, the war began when French armies occupied Spain in 1808 and lasted until the Sixth Coalition defeated Napoleon in 1814.

The Peninsular War was one of the first wars of national liberation and the first guerrilla conflict (a term coined for this war). Its course was largely dictated by Spanish irregulars and the failure of Napoleon's large armies to pacify the people of Spain. French units in Spain forcibly hugged their vulnerable supply lines, were always in danger of being cut off and overwhelmed by the partisans, and were unable to achieve decisive results."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_war

See also:
http://divedi.blogspot.com/2007/01/person-of-day-napoleon.html

Posted by: Dimitar Vesselinov at February 4, 2007 05:31 PM


Tin Foil Hat THIS! - - - Bush says '08 budget takes money FROM domestic spending for "defense" use...

President George W. Bush said on Saturday his upcoming budget proposal would emphasize restraint on domestic spending while making defense and war costs for Iraq and Afghanistan the top priority.

"Cutting the deficit during a time of war requires us to restrain spending in other areas," Bush said in his weekly radio address.

Previewing the fiscal year 2008 budget he will unveil on Monday, Bush also said it would show that his goal of erasing the deficit by 2012 could be accomplished while making his tax cuts permanent.

"Congress needs to make this tax relief permanent, so we can keep America's economy growing. Pro-growth economic policies also play a vital role in our plan to balance the federal budget," he said.

"Our growing (sic) economy has produced record levels of tax revenue. This increase in tax revenue has helped us cut the deficit in half three years ahead of schedule," he added. "On Monday, we will take the next step when I submit to Congress a budget that will eliminate the deficit by 2012."

Bush will propose a 1 percent increase in spending outside defense for fiscal 2008, according to The Washington Post. That would amount to a decrease in programs after accounting for inflation, which is running at about 2.5 percent.

The Post also said the president would seek a 10 percent increase in the regular Pentagon budget to $481 billion.

FINANCING IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN WARS
An administration official has said the president will request a total of $245 billion to finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through late 2008. That will include a $100 billion request for the wars for the rest of the current fiscal year that ends on September 30 and $145 billion for next year.

Including $70 billion that Congress has already approved, the total of $170 billion for this fiscal year would mark the highest spending level so far for the two wars.

"Our troops deserve our full support, and this budget gives them the resources they need," Bush said, adding he would set as his top priority "keeping America safe and winning the war against extremists."

He did not discuss any of the numbers in the budget, nor did he specify the non-defense areas where he would curb spending. However, he said some "wasteful spending" could be cut by getting rid of "earmarks" -- or special interest projects.

This is the first year Bush will submit his budget to a Democratic-controlled Congress. Many Democrats have called Bush fiscally reckless and contend that his huge tax cuts were heavily skewed toward the wealthy and were unaffordable.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said in a report last month that balancing the budget was possible by 2012. But its assumptions did not factor in an extension of the Bush tax cuts or changes Congress is likely to make to shield middle-class Americans from the alternative minimum tax.

Bush, who addressed House of Representatives Democrats at their retreat in Williamsburg, Virginia, on Saturday, also called for a bipartisan effort to rein in entitlement programs, such as the Medicare health program for older Americans.

"Controlling spending also requires us to address the unsustainable growth of entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid," Bush said. "Spending for these programs is growing faster than inflation, faster than our economy, and faster than our ability to pay for it.

Bush's budget will propose squeezing about $70 billion in savings from the Medicare and Medicaid health programs over the next five years, an administration official said.

This story ©Reuters 02-03-07

Posted by: mrk at February 3, 2007 11:00 PM


Vis a vis deployment for attack against Iran: I do not think the current aim is for anything much bigger than regaining control of at least central Baghdad. The situation right now can be compared to an invading army controlling Manhattan (Green zone) and nt much else, surrounded by a war between the burroughs.

As for lie/not lie, its at least an interesting number-game, and sets up a whole new logistical and financial perspective on this surge. Id advise y´all to take a look ad Sadr city at google maps. Good luck picking a fight there against Iranian trained lebanon-veterans. Bush is picking a fight he can not win, and the question lingering behind is why..

Posted by: MK at February 2, 2007 03:10 PM


Numbers are Impressive

So were the US troop numbers in Nam too, if you read, About Face by Hackworth, or Soldiers Story by Herbert, two of American’s top battlefield commanders, with all those numbers in Nam most were in rear areas, and many of line units were shorthanded … or combat areas..
If you fail to plan, plan to fail. So if you have all those troops in Iraq, what are you going to do? What is the plan, walking bullet catchers or hunting down the enemy, and what is the QRF, elements Quick Reactionary Force plans ?
Cause when the sheet hits the fan, its gong to be quick and deadly, somebody better be there, and the QRF will need a QRF, over and over again, the QRF is ambushed running out to help.. another unit..

Posted by: stephen at February 2, 2007 05:55 AM


For every 1 shooter it usually requires 4-6 non-shooters in order to get them in place. That's how war works.

Are we on the same planet?

[[[[Hello, over]]]]

Posted by: RTLM at February 2, 2007 02:23 AM


lies...
please join in
So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ

If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you…
I suggest sending one to each of your state’s senators and possibly a spare couple to a senator in a state near you

They usually request a name, address, and leave room for your topic and statement… I prefer to use different topics so they get the notes from different of their staff readers… for example; ETHICS is one of my favorites

If you don’t know a zip code from that state picks one from
http://www.paweb2.com/zip.htm
Which is a list of states and zip codes?

And of course, who really wants to hear from these guys with their standard blah blah form letter… I usually use a “random” address such as
oreilly@foxnews.com

I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME IN THIS HUGE ENDEVOR TO EDUCATE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ON WHAT WE ARE REALLY THINKING

Thank you all for your support, and should you wish to contact me…
Just send your note to oreilly@foxnews.com.
8^)

Posted by: mark mywords at February 2, 2007 12:38 AM


Has anyone else thought about the possible "real" reason we are sending all these 21,500 troops and the added "support" troops to Iraq?? Could it be another positioning for battle toward Iran?? This way the prez can begin his war with Iran and claim he has the troops on the ground to fight it - well before Congress can do anything about it!?

Isn't this the admins "Method of Operation"? Don't be surprised if it turns out that this is the next step in aligning his ships and missils - and now the ground troops - for his next war.

Sounds like a "war plan" to me - at least to get the war started - no plan thereafter as to what will happen after he attacks Iran - WWIII!!?? or Armageddon???

Posted by: yankee clipper at February 2, 2007 12:38 AM


The CBO seems to be on the money with this. Check out what the CBO told the Senate Republicans in 2002 about the cost of going to war with Iraq.

They did not listen and did it anyway. We are paying the price and will do so for years to come. I will be dead...My grandchildren and their children will still be paying.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/38xx/doc3822/09-30-Iraq.pdf

Posted by: Yurde at February 2, 2007 12:34 AM


So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ

If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you…
I suggest sending one to each of your state’s senators and possibly a spare couple to a senator in a state near you

They usually request a name, address, and leave room for your topic and statement… I prefer to use different topics so they get the notes from different of their staff readers… for example; ETHICS is one of my favorites

If you don’t know a zip code from that state picks one from
http://www.paweb2.com/zip.htm
Which is a list of states and zip codes?

And of course, who really wants to hear from these guys with their standard blah blah form letter… I usually use a “random” address such as
oreilly@foxnews.com

I HOPE YOU WILL JOIN ME IN THIS HUGE ENDEVOR TO EDUCATE OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS ON WHAT WE ARE REALLY THINKING

Thank you all for your support, and should you wish to contact me…
Just send your note to oreilly@foxnews.com.
8^)

Posted by: mark mywords at February 2, 2007 12:30 AM


Dear fellow Americans,

I love you, but you are so gullible! It is very late now, and you are still far from seeing the real nature of the beast.

You live in a country which is managed like a corporation.

For decades your economic and psychological environment has been so doctored as to produce passive, divided populace, confused and incapable of seeing the big picture.

Your cultural life has been manipulated as well. You watched the show as if hypnotized.

You have absorbed values, assumptions, prejudices and beliefs that were intended for you, wholesale. You actually gave up on seeing the world with your own eyes.

You learned to do what it takes for a dollar without asking questions. You are used to looking the other way and saying 'not my problem'. It’s all catching up with you now.

The conditioning was successful, and your collective behaviour is totally predicable now.

You still believe in democracy, but in fact you are being lead by the hand.

There is a class of professionals who can play you and your institutions anyway they want.

Yes, Bush is despicable, but he is not the real problem. The problem is systemic; it runs much, much deeper.

Now your country is a toy in the hands of shadowy elites with the most terrifying of agendas. It will take rivers of blood to turn it around. God help us!

Andrzej

Posted by: Andrzej at February 1, 2007 10:57 PM


George Bush is nothing but a Dictator. A want to be Stalin. He cares nothing about anyone but himself. He is lier and uses terror to scare the puplic.
To all the supports of Bush. Old, young disabled, male or female. You need to fight his battle for him Iraq and where ever he leads you. Get off you couch and go with George to do the fighting. Quit calling other people names put your life on the line and shout your mouth. Quit using the military and do it yourself, unless you are scared. And if you are scared then SHOUT UP.

Posted by: Joe at February 1, 2007 10:33 PM


Michael McCullough raises some interesting points in an otherwise rather silly thread. He argues that bush won Florida fair and square. This is a oft-repeated argument for which there is ample evidence to the contrary. Mike, try reading Jews for Buchanan, an partial discussion of the vote and one which is heavily supported by documentation.

I also watch C-SPAN and find about equal amounts of criticism (none terribly abusive but most quite critical in the same fashion with which Clinton was bashed) and fawning praise of our war chief. I entered military service the same day he did but no one gave me time off for golf/political campaigning. On the whole he seems to be getting a "fair and balanced" ride from C-SPAN. One wonders if Hitler would have been given the same level of deference.

As to warrantless arrests, I lived in a South American country under military rule. Let me tell you Mike, if you knew what you were so casually talking about, you wouldn't be so quick to brush it aside with a non-sequitur. A traffic ticket arrest is covered by law. Comparing that to political kidnapping and physical torture is both absurd and disingenuous.

And lastly the reference to fascism is neither specious nor irrelevant. Mike would do well to read a recent history by Richard J. Evans entitled The Coming of the Third Reich and note the parallels. But then that may be asking too much of a smug ideolog.

Posted by: bman at February 1, 2007 09:35 PM


A Tin Foil Hat, eh? Do ya think that'll do it, Mister Smarty Pants?

Actually, I wish the CIA WOULD listen to me MORE often. As it is they only listen some of the time. The rest of the time they go on and do something else entirely. - But that's okay - as long as their checks don't bounce. (They pay pretty well.)

Now let's discuss YOUR little problem: Shouldn't you put down that bong and finish your homework? You'll never get your G.E.D. messing about on your mom's computer in the middle of the afternoon. Moron!

Some people do not have the capacity to grapple with the larger picture. Some lack historical context and life experience. Other folk simply suffer from a short attention span. -- That's why we 'tin foil hat' guys get paid the big bucks!

Money drives the whole shebang, pardner - the former USA needs to control the ME carbon deposits because in a very short time China is going to be eyeballing that crude rather jealously. China already has the US by the short and curlies because the Busites borrowed so heavily FROM CHINA to finance their whole NeoCon-job dawg'n'pony show: giving 'tax breaks' to the multimillionaire class... and fighting a needless war.

Pay attention, boy - the real story is even bigger story than your tiny mind can imagine. Now get off the computer and finish your homework, kid!


Posted by: mrk at February 1, 2007 09:19 PM


To Mike McCullough and the question of the Hitler comparison, I agree, it is an unfair comparison. Hitler wasn't burdened with the US Constitution so many of his crimes weren't even crimes. That made it easier. Bush himself said it's easier if you're a dictator.
And Hitler wrote his own plan for world domination and aggression in Mein Kampf, Bush is using the playbook of the neo-cons at PNAC (the Project for the New American Century, and of course Hitler served his time in the military, not in some country club outfit. (didn't have them in post WWI Germany.) And Hitler had to burn his own Reichstag, Bush's just went the corruption route when they saw the new attorney general and they stopped making laws and watching what the executive branch was doing.
And it took Hitler 5 years to invade Austria, Bush had his first invasion in his first year, and of course Hitler had given up reading childrens' stories while he was serving time for his beliefs before taking office. Our guy was doing fairy tales when 3000 of his countrymen died. So you're right, comparisons are always odious and this one is expecially maligning to the 20th century's most historic figure.

Posted by: deceivednotdefeated at February 1, 2007 08:52 PM



This is old stuff.

See URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoliticalEssays/message/869

Posted by: Jerry Aspar at February 1, 2007 08:04 PM


More troops, less troops. Whatever. If everyone to the left of Trent Lott will kindly yell "Bush is Hitler" in unison, we can move onto your next well constructed argument.

But I think the Democrats and the MSM need to get their list of talking points straight. Shrieking "Too many troops!" and "Not enough troops!" in the same news cycle is just poor form; they're not even trying anymore.

Posted by: John at February 1, 2007 07:19 PM


Stephen:

You claim that Iraq's WMDs went on an airplane to Damascus (must've been a heckuva big airplane) and then wonder why the media didn't report this...that's not the wonder at all. If this story is true, why didn't Bush himself talk about it?

Or is it that Bush has lied so often he doesn't know how to deal with the truth even when it would help him?

Posted by: Danny Adams at February 1, 2007 07:01 PM


"We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich."

Don't forget that Chimpy McHitlerburton and the CIA can read your mind unless you're wearing a tin foil hat. After reading your post, I'm pretty sure that you've got your tinfoil hat on.

President Bush won Florida after some areas were hand-counted no less than 5 times -- all areas which Gore got to pick, not Bush. The Supreme Court stopped Gore on a vote of 7 to 2, with 2 of the 7 disagreeing on the remedy but agreeing that Gore's shenanigans had gone on long enough.

I can't open a newspaper or turn on the news or watch C-SPAN without seeing Bush called the vilest things, so I don't where you got the idea that people are afraid to speak out.

As for arrests without warrants, that's happened every day since the country was founded. Ever see a drunk driver get pulled over and arrested? There were no warrants in that situation. I don't think you even know what a warrant is.

Finally, your Fourth Reich imagery is ludicrous. Read the history books on what happened in the Third Reich and compare it with today. Your nonsense proves that people with tiny minds can be compelled to believe anything if fed enough propaganda.

Posted by: Michael McCullough at February 1, 2007 06:48 PM


This administration will stand head and shoulders above its predecessors for all it has
accomplished: destroying the richest republic on
earth, turning America into a semi-fascist state,
bankrupting the federal treasury, turning the media into hired lapdogs and prostitutes, ending
the freedoms of American citizens in exchange for
"protection" from alleged terrorism, and also
creating a state of perpetual war which has already cost the lives of hundreds of thousands,
and we're just getting going good. When Reagan
spoke of an "evil empire" we didn't know it would
turn out to be us. We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people
are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich.

Posted by: Cosmo at February 1, 2007 06:24 PM


What are we going to do with 100,000 demobilized mercenaries?

Posted by: Jack Parsons at February 1, 2007 06:23 PM


I think enough is enough to be debating an issue that needs to be resolved soon. The quicker the better. Only common sense can tell

Posted by: makesenseofit at February 1, 2007 06:15 PM


I wanted to be a merc in Iraq with blackwater, but I guess you got to have your not up someones butt to get in.

Posted by: james at February 1, 2007 05:56 PM


At this point Bush is pretty much against the wall. I mean, will not the new democratic congress start cutting funds and bring the troops home? Why don't they vote to do it? I mean what is wrong with this new congress? A non-Binding legislation, sounds like a bunch of fools talk. The Democratic Party needs to stick it to Bushes face and tell him who the real boss is, You Know, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The Democratic Party Led by these two neeed to make some quick legislation to end this war once and for all. Im sick of hearing all this bull crap from the Democratic leaders that we need to pull out now. Let's do it. Cut the funds now I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for action, no more wolly gaggling!!! You hear me reid ? Pelosi? To quote Ted Kennedy "Hello?---Hello?------Hello? Are we just hearing a bunch of rheteric from our leaders? nothing solid or compound? Tell Bush to stick it!!!!!!!!!! Time for a congressional cloture vote get all 60 of those dinosaurs out on the carpet and vote to cut funding to this damn war!!!! We in this country are the biggest bunch of losers to stand here and let the war continue. We are so stupid to be led around by the likes of the Bush War Room BOSSING us around! well no more of that, no more of that. Oh yeah and lets not forget who helped to vote us in there in the first place. HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU HILLARY CLINTON, SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!! Where was your inspiration when we needed it most huh? WHERE WERE YOU?!!!!!!!!!! WHEN WE NEEDED YOU? your out there campaigning now saying your in to win and how if you knew then what you knew now you would not have voted for the millions of dollars and troops for this what bush billed as the war on terror. You gave him all your support by voting for this! HONEY, you made your bed, and now you will sleep in it!!!!! Your campaigning will all be in vain cause you supported this war!!!!! how dare you stick the finger at us HILLARY CLINTON!!!! You do not have my support or my vote you screwed me and every democrat out there! Saying to potential voters that now if u knew then what you knew now? Not good enough Mrs. Clinton. Not Good enough. Have you not played chess before? You should have had the intuition of where this war was going to go. A vote for you is a vote for a traitor. At least Bush isnt so spineless despite all the bull crap he has dished out to us, he, has't been a traitor to his own party! Its one thing to start this bull crap war were in and to stick to your guns, like he has, he remains one of the most hated men in the country if not the most hated man period point blank. But you!!!!!! You totally played the traitors part in your vote for money for the war. You Gave your party the finger and you have let rest your political fire power on the couch eating lays potatoe chips!!!!!! not to mention while watching My name is earl, of all shows, yeah, u know him as the character who has the list of things he has trying to make right with all these people he wronged in life. Well you screwed the democratic party, forever. I do not think voters will forgive you for signing on with Bush and giving him money for the war. You in my mind will forever be a bush supporter, no amount of campaining will change that. Its my hope that the dems will totally get their act in gear and change this, but i do not see it happening, there to stuck on stupid. IM sick off this party of mine. Im upset that my leaders will not do what i voted them in to do in the first place. I want this war done and over with. I hate war, and i cant stand anymore hypocrisy from my own party. I don't know if bush lied or not, but i do know the people i voted for, are not doing what i voted them in to do, and for heavens sake, Will some one please tell Nancy and Dirty harry to do their jobs? people voted them in there for a reason , hello ?

Posted by: bESIDE MYSELF at February 1, 2007 05:07 PM


but bush spends like a lib
Posted by: howdy_studly at February 1, 2007 04:35 PM

Hey, buddy.
Didn't anybody ever teach you
that labels are bad? That they can
be wrong or change?

Just as we now realize that Republicans
no longer deserve the labels
"conservative" or "compassionate"
You should realize that libs aren't "spenders"

We favor pay-go. We favor fairness in the
tax code (meaning richies should pay their
fair share too). WE want to get control of
war profiteering and embezzling.

You should stop parrotting your stereotypical lib
bashing and take a look at reality for a change.

Reality is we had a budget surplus when Clinton
was in and a record deficit with your guy.

Posted by: DemandTruth at February 1, 2007 04:46 PM


Bush lied?
Alert the media!

Posted by: Bubbaboy at February 1, 2007 04:41 PM


even republicans are abandoning bush... i am 'conservative'... i voted republican because it 'used to be' a 'conservative' party... but bush spends like a lib, and panders to illegal aliens like a lib... he is, in fact, a lib. bush has destroyed the republican party. his agenda of 'born again christianity' is not 'conservative' (it is religious). bush's attempt to re-invigorate the 12th century crusade of christians against islam has led the country down a path of over-spending. the democratic party is beginning to look more 'conservative' than the republican party (e.g. 'pay as you go', and ending the war). mr. bush... you have done a disservice to yourself, the republican party, all conservatives and your country. JMHO

Posted by: howdy_studly at February 1, 2007 04:35 PM


Just curious, what side will these extra brigades be fighting to defend? The Sunnis or the Shiites? And: Is a war within a country that has 3 factions fighting each other still called a "civil war?"

Posted by: L. Jordan at February 1, 2007 04:32 PM


In response to Andrew who sounds like a total moron. In the first place Andrew, an aircraft carrier has about 5500 sailors and marines. They have the capacity to carry 3 times the number of aircraft you came up with (25). Not just F-16's, but F-18 Super Hornets as well. Second of all, the pipelines in Iraq have been continually blown up and even the Iraqi people have to wait in line for gas. Much of which is black market. That is one reason why you are paying so much at the pump. Third, Exxon broke their own record for profits made, 39Billion, with a "B". Forth, Iran has had missiles that were capable of striking our carriers for the past couple of years. I emailed the commander of the Kennedy 2 years ago because I was concerned about this very thing. You see, I have a daughter in the U.S. Navy who is stationed on an aircraft carrier. She has been to the gulf. I am a former marine and have a son in the marines who has been to Iraq and thank God returned safely. This time. I am sure if Iran really were inclined, they would hit our carriers. I think Bush is the instigator and is trying to pick a fight and is p.o.'d because Iran is exercising restraint. Maybe you should get off the trading floor once in a while and do some research. And remember, it wasn't Iraq or Iran that killed your friends at the WTC on 9/11. Bin Laden bin forgotten was allegedly the one responsible but of course he is still on the loose and Bush doesn't think about him much because he's really not that important. (said by Bush himself at a press gaggle 03/14/04)

Posted by: fubar at February 1, 2007 04:29 PM


Maybe the best way to stop the blowback of terrorist tactics would be to stop screwing around with other nations. For Example when the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran in 1953 and replacing it with a tyrant. After the blowback of 1979 the CIA threw it's support behind Saddam Hussein, giving him WMDS. The CIA supported Al Queda/Bin Laden!
It's been 1,963 days since WMD said he'd catch Weekend At Osama's Dead or Alive. USA! USA! USA!

Posted by: Post American at February 1, 2007 04:27 PM


The next time anyone decides to take us to war, the first rule of order must be that every member of the Administration, including the President himself/herself, as well as all voting members of Congress, must supply either one son, daughter, or other relative if they have no son or daughter, to fight the new war on the front lines. No exceptions, no deferments. Sine the rich gain the most in this country from advancing our "causes", they should be made to sacrifice for those benefits. And I guaranty you, if this law is passed, you won't have to worry about any more Vietnam or Iraq type wars! The next war we ever get into would be one worth fighting.

Posted by: Joe at February 1, 2007 04:25 PM


Poor martyred America.

Blowback is such a bitch.

We ONLY have over half a million U.S. troops, spies, contractors and dependents stationed on a network of 737 American military bases in 130+ countries, not counting the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, many in countries whose people have not agreed to it.

""blowback" does not just mean retaliation for things our government has done to, and in, foreign countries. It refers specifically to retaliation for illegal operations carried out abroad that were kept totally secret from the American public. These operations have included the clandestine overthrow of governments various administrations did not like, the training of foreign militaries in the techniques of state terrorism, the rigging of elections in foreign countries, interference with the economic viability of countries that seemed to threaten the interests of influential American corporations, as well as the torture or assassination of selected foreigners. The fact that these actions were, at least originally, secret meant that when retaliation does come - as it did so spectacularly on September 11, 2001 - the American public is incapable of putting the events in context. Not surprisingly, then, Americans tend to support speedy acts of revenge intended to punish the actual, or alleged, perpetrators. These moments of lashing out, of course, only prepare the ground for yet another cycle of blowback."
-Chalmers Johnson, @ TomsDispatch.com

Posted by: Olive Oil at February 1, 2007 04:19 PM


I look forward to seeing the Entire US Government brought to justice with rope, tar, and feathers. We are borrowing 8 Billion Dollars A WEEK from China for the Occupation of Iraq. We either need a war tax or we need to get the hell out of Iraq.

Posted by: Post American at February 1, 2007 04:17 PM


I love how the country woke up in 2006 and threw these republican hypocrits out of office.

For you idiot neocons who are still calling everyone else "anti-america traitors", keep it up-that's how you became the minority. With a few more insults you'll ensure you the GOP is nothing more than a memory. You've insulted literally everyone now, you've called us all anti american traitors, and in the process you isolated your party from mainstream america. Good job, dunces.

Posted by: willis at February 1, 2007 04:08 PM


RE:Posted by: karla_homolka at February 1, 2007 03:33 PM

Great recap of the events after 9/11. You only made one false assumption, that is OBL and 18 ragtag Saudi's were alone behind the 9/11 attacks. Not the case..... there is enough proof out there now to totally disprove that assumption and also to make a case that it was an inside job. Go to some of these web sites and see for yourself.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
http://www.911inplanesite.com/
http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN;_user_op=view&ANN;_id=16
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911information
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/

Posted by: keyman12 at February 1, 2007 04:05 PM


Impeach Chimp and the puppet master or have him step down since he was never elected but selected with crooks and daddys suppprreemm court.

Posted by: hobojo at February 1, 2007 03:52 PM


When I asked a friend of mine in the reserves who was just called up if He was going, He said that He thought so because sending 20,000 troops would probably entail deploying and additional 2-3 support personnel or contractors and as a mechanic he felt like He would return. Now He didn't think anybody lied to him. I didn't think I had been lied to and I don't understand anybody that is looking to make it a lie. When all the Dems were hollering about sending more Troops (as recent as 2 months ago) you would have thought sending 50,000 Troops would just trip their Trigger. But now with their criticism it really shows that it is just "Political Undermining" that they are interested in, NOT WINNING". Most of the people I know that are in the Military while they might have many gripes, feel like they are being undermined in their Mission and do not understand why!

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:42 PM


MRK, Shhhhhhh CIA is listening to you. Its all a conspiracy. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH. There coming for you MRK. Maybe you should put tin foil on your head they could be listening to your thoughts.

Posted by: MRK there is CIA listening to you at February 1, 2007 03:35 PM


a recap... the usa got hit by OBL on 911... the adminstration needed to react to show the people that they were 'doing something'... cheney orchestrated an attack on iraq by producing phoney documents about iraq having weapons of mass destruction... bush launched an unjustified attack and quickly claimed victory with his now famous 'mission accomplished' banner... no wmd were found... the 'war' against 'our enemies' continued and escalated nevertheless... this 'war' will continue until we reach the conclusion that we did with vietnam, which is, we have the technology to bomb the sh*t out of anyone but we do not have the will, technology, savvy, know-how to destroy an enemy that we cannot differentiate from the law abiding citizens of the same country.

Posted by: karla_homolka at February 1, 2007 03:33 PM


patriot..??? I want to start by saying thank you. I read your post and shared it on the trading floor with everyone.. The best laugh we've had in here since the new year started.. thank you. Now to quickly break down your obviously researched, well educated, and factually based argument..... right, we've been in iraq for about 4 years now.. All that oil coming through that huge pipeline we built from Iraq to the U.S. is really helping us out... ur a genious.. Was that why I've been paying about $3/gallon? Wait does less oil or more raise or lower the prices.? Hell I don't even know what im talking about. I figured all that oil we've been stealing would drop it down to about $1/gallon, but I've somehow got to be wrong. Oh wait my favorite part.. Iran has missiles... that can sink all of our naval ships?? well hell, if I didnt no any better, its sounds like someone from the Iranian defense dept was spreading some propaganda on here... well, we have two carriers, each with about 2,000 sailors and about 25 f16's on board riding ur ass on the border, with another on the way... why havent you guys fired a shot yet?? i think i know.. We wouldnt waste time invading Iran, we would flat out just shit all over you. patriot, thank you again for the bullshit synopsis that has all of our troops oh yeah, and government raping everyone in the middle east. Cause I cant really remember if we were over there or not before some uneducated (like urself clearly) brainwashed scumbags flew jets into the WTC killing relatives and friends of mine. if only they were still here to read your post.. then i could tell them they'd be on the way to hell with me for all the harm we've cause the environment.. I just want to send you a nice tree you can plant in your (im guessing) tiny yard so you can plant it, and nurture it , and hug it all day long while you have no job and bash the govt.. ur the best patriot.. keep on being the patriot you are.. Peace brother.. Pass the love along.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 03:30 PM


Will someone please tell me when John Warner became a liberal-commie-pot-smoking-terrorist-hugger? Did I miss a meeting? Seig heil der Bush always and forever! Common sense be damned! We don't need common sense because we're AMERICAAAAAAAA!

You Bushies are so fucking stupid.

Posted by: Alex at February 1, 2007 03:30 PM


Sorry dude, it is a lie. This from the State of the Union address:

So we're deploying reinforcements of more than 20,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Iraq.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/
2007/01/20070123-2.html

It doesn't say 20,000 combat troops, just troops. If we send 48,000 troops instead of something close to 20,000 it is just a lie.

Posted by: CentFla at February 1, 2007 03:28 PM


THE OIL is only a small part of the story. "Combating Islamic 'fascism" is a fable created for popular consumption.

The real reason for the while shituation is larger. It's about GLOBAL HEGEMONY and PROFITS. Large corporate inter tests drive policy. On this continent there are large corporations whose products are directly related to war as a business, i.e. killing on an industrial scale. They develop weapons systems, manufacture weapons, market and sell weapon$. Among these: GE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lockheed/Martin and Boeing to name the more familiar. Then there are the corporations and engineering firms who service the business of war and industrial scale killing. Among these firms are the familiar Brown & Root, Halliburton, Bechtel - long known in engineering circles as 'the CIA's engineering firm.' Then there are the numerous corporate 'security, mercenary, or "Soldier-of-Fortune' organizations. Too numerous to mention. As well as the fossil fuel interests which everyone presumes are involved from the get go.

ALL of these are large companies employ huge numbers of people and rake in large contracts from the DOD/Pentagon thereby sucking up vast amounts of US taxpayer monies. ALL these firms employ armies of economists whose job includes developing forecasts: 'how to keep the gravy train running smoothly and in perpetuity.'

When the Soviet bloc retired from their role as 'designated enemy' the economists and policy makers at the weapons manufacturers et al listed above began to search for a new 'threat' to keep domestic paranoia at an appropriate level. Since no one stepped forth in the global arena to volunteer to be our new 'designated enemy' it was determined that the US would simply 'create a new enemy' by kicking sand in Haji's face.

Over the past decade we have witnessed the public face of that ongoing strategy. The plan included 9/11 as well as the installation an administration sympathetic to this plan. THE reason Osama has not been captured (yet) is, he more valuable as a threat than he is as a prisoner or a corpse. The reason the US has not achieved a 'victory' in Iraq is that the purpose is NOT to achieve a 'victory.' The real agenda is to stay in theater long enough to piss off and radicalize a whole population and an entire generation of Islamic young men, turning them into fanatical US haters and thus insure that the US will have a visible, 'dangerous' enemy for the next three decades.

When administration talking heads and NeoCons talk about the 'long war' or 'generational warfare' or say that we will be fighting Islamic fundies for 30 years we are getting a quick glimpse behind the infamous curtain of their long term strategy.

What it reveals is a tragic lack of imagination in the highest, most powerful levels of corporate/government planning. A one trick pony lack of imagination. After half century of keeping the economy afloat through weapons development, weapons manufacture and weapons marketing they have no other skillset or product to fall back on. They HAVE to keep making weapons because that is the only trick they have. IN order to have the continued support of the population for this plan enemies are necessary. Swarthy hordes of Middle Eastern Islamic 'facsists' have cast in this role. Iraq is only the recruitment phase. This is just the beginning. We have almost 25 more years to go.

Fasten your seat belts.


Posted by: mrk at February 1, 2007 03:27 PM


Speaking of pussies 'Ric' ... do you currently serve in the military?

Posted by: Alex at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM


patriot at February 1, 2007 03:13 PM

In short, I tell You that not only are you the real LOON but nobody in their right mind could make the statements that you made with a strait face. talk about Rabid Left. Could anybody defend your statements as fact.

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM


Why do people insist on seeing the problem as "cowardly liberals"? Conservatives writing for The American Coservative and other respected conservative forums have been screaming about Bush's "adventure in Iraq" since Day 1. Republican Chuck Hagel is hardly a cowardly liberal. Jim Webb is hardly a cowardly liberal. The various and sundry Generals and former Secretaries of Defense & State who oppose Bush policy are hardly liberals. Get a grip!

Posted by: cadbury at February 1, 2007 03:25 PM


Sean, OH MY! You can't tell the Liberal that we are a Representative Republic. They think we are a Democracy. Public Schools you know. They think that winning the popular vote gets you the POTUS. We stole oil but our gas prices have been higher than ever. Those evil gas companies made 39bil in profit. But no one says they paid 100bil in taxes. For every stupid uninformed argument the Libias have there is a stronger counterpoint. By the way I don't know how many dumbyas graduated from both Yale and Harvard.

Posted by: Liberal really like Little Boys at February 1, 2007 03:23 PM


Anyone who believes a word the little dictator and draft dodger says is wearing blinders and needs counseling and sympathy from all with sound mind.

Posted by: hobojo at February 1, 2007 03:23 PM


Just because you don't understand that when it is discussed to send 20,000 troops into the front lines in a theater of war it is a given that they will need additional logistical support doesn't make the Commander in Chief a liar. A Lie is when you say that most Americans hate Bush when it is a fact that 51% of the voting population voted for him. Just because you didn't doesn't make him illegal. In our civilized Republic, when a man becomes the elected Leader of the Country, he should be entitled to a modicum of respect and support out of respect for the majority that voted him in and out of patriotism for our Great Country. When He is undermined in every thing He does by the rabid left and loses the support of the populace then everything we do will turn to crap. 75% of the populace and even more of the Congress supported this action in an area that is vital for us and the world. How does that make it illegal. For people to now claim that they were hoodwinked is ridiculous. Its Political Opportunists that take advantage of the "Do Gooder Left". Its obvious they would have turned on our country no matter what the excuse. The blood is on their hands for not following thru with the support "our Men" need in a theater of war. The Men that have died have now died over "political undermining".
If this country went "ROMAN", it could takeover the Middle East in a couple of months yet because We are not united we can't even protect our vital interests without it being a Fiasco. I for one had really thought that we had learned a lesson from Viet Nam. Its obvious that we will have to wait until we are hit again before we can feel "justified to defend our best interests". It is worse in the long run to lose than it is to be mistaken. Time will tell that We should have done this with everything we had and even then it will still all be blamed on Bush like its his fault the "Islamic Fascist" are against Us.

Posted by: Sean at February 1, 2007 03:17 PM


Andrew, 2:49pm:

You are a loon. You have no clue whatsoever about what is happening or why.

The bush crime family committed the Iraq Mass Murder Campaign for three reasons:
1) to steal the oil
2) to "protect" Israel, the country that controls bush
3) as an imperial adventure, i.e., invading a country, murdering, raping, and torturing its inhabitants, all with the goal of putting themselves in Saddam's place as a world class terrorist in control of a strategically important country. They have succeeded in the second two and are now putting in place #1.

Fools such as yourself will cheer happily as the bush crime family commits more mass murder in Iran -- this time with horrendous blowback on our troops and ships in the Gulf. Iran has unstoppable cruise missiles which they will use to sink ALL of our ships in the Gulf, causing tens of thousands of deaths among our sailors within only a few hours. You are partly responsible for this as an assholic fascist who supports dumbya the demented decider. You will rot in hell, appropriately, for your small part in the murder, torture, maiming, incinerating, and mangling of hundreds of thousands of human beings, and the destruction of the environment of a whole country with depleted uranium.

You are, in short, scum.

Posted by: patriot at February 1, 2007 03:13 PM


You pussies that (probably unlike your sex partner) wanna pull out before the job is done are such short -sited cry babies its pathetic. No wonder youre such cry babies. How long would America and Europe have survived if the gutless attitude like yours was the domineering one in WWII. The pussies in the UK and France except for Winston Churchill wouldnt believe the threat of Hitler until the bastard bombed their cities and then occupied their countries. You pussies are the best example yet of History repeating itself.The wmd's are out there and your crying.. Bush is a liar. Pussies!

Posted by: Ric at February 1, 2007 03:12 PM


Infidel, I'm with you. Where is everyone on here from?? I can only narrow it down to San Fransisco, or hollywood... It's pathedic all the same.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 03:11 PM


War is Peace. Live with it.

Posted by: Honest Georg at February 1, 2007 03:11 PM


Ok you Bush lied people died phonys. FACT Sodomy Hussien had and used WMD on his own people. FACT Bill and Shrillary both thought Sodomy Hussein had WMD through their own research. FACT Their own words by the way. FACT The US never saw proof of the weapons being destroyed. FACT liberals are hypocrits. By the way how many weopons constitute WMD. 1 war head with enough Sarin to kill 20000 poeple? FACT double FACT! They found this. Do your research and stop taking everything on MoveON.org to bleeding heart. FACT The media does not report the positive happenings in Iraq. FACT triple FACT. More people die in the USA from medication errors than have died in IRAQ. The ratio is 200,000:3000. OH NO!!! Let's pull the doctors out of the hospitals there are peopled ying. Get the job done. Liberals I know you don't have jobs except working for Gov't so please when I say job I mean in regualar society and not City Hall or McDonalds.

Posted by: Liberals Like Little Boys at February 1, 2007 03:09 PM


Did anyone really vote on the war believing Iraq had WMD's...??? and if they were there saddam would even be able to get them over to the U.S.?? idiots. If the war was going well and Iraq was coming together more quickly than everyone had hoped and the people we had to fight over there weren't hiding and firing weapons behind women and children, Bush would look like a king, and you'd find something else to complain about.. hey, if it was up to me.. The U.S. would isolate itself from every other country, then everyone else could fight amongst themselves.. wait, we tried that one didnt we? And if we weren't in any other countries fighting right now, other countries still wouldnt come to us for aid, money, food, etc... if the U.S. helps, they are the bad guy, If they don't , they are the bad guy... can someone (preferably a liberal please) give me the perfect scenario... ? cause i cant think of one.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 03:09 PM


Just admit it people, you would rather see us defeated than see Bush's plan work and see a successfull iraq. You are pathetic.

Posted by: Infidel at February 1, 2007 03:08 PM


Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or why a field burns. Don't ask why some fight

Posted by: IRR at February 1, 2007 03:04 PM


Yeah, yeah, the WMD are in Syria, that's it! And is Syria supporting the insurgents or NOT??!! You'd think that WMD attacks would have been going on daily for the last four years, but nary a ONE! Maybe just one of those WMD's could have found it's way to Europe or America, but NO again? Two scenarios come to mind 1) The WMD's are over hyped and a minor issue OR maybe the wicked, wicked Syrians (see Axis of Evil for more of the same)would never be caught dead (literally) using WMD's because it is not in their interest.

Posted by: PAR at February 1, 2007 03:00 PM


Remember the old story of wagon selling? It's a lot like the slow play-out of the real troop count in the "SURGE." It goes like this: Buyer: "How much for a wagon?" Seller: That'll be $100 (and if the buyer doesn't flinch, quickly add, 'that's for the body, the wheels are extra"); buyer: "Oh, how much for the wheels?" Seller: "They're $25 (and if the buyer doesn't flinch, quickly add, "each."). W's a shifty old wagon trader... Why, I actually heard the original surge numbers(leaking from the Pentagon, like water courses through a sieve) to be close to 60K, bringing the Baghdad count closer to what it takes to pacify a city, 1 soldier for every 50 local residents. So... if we don't flinch, get ready for the next incremental increase in the real count... despite what brother Casey, just home from the war, says before congress....

ktw

Posted by: ktw at February 1, 2007 02:59 PM


I am so sick of people saying wait until this surge fails then Bush will bring our men home. Darn it, don't you people understand that *when* this surge fails it will fail because American men are getting killed faster than Bush can replace them! Sons, brothers, father's, and nephews, best friends, dead, dead, dead, dead, and dead to prove you right and Bush wrong.

Stop talking about when the surge fails and start talking about stopping it! Stop sitting in your warm home at your computer saying, la, la, this is ashame but ...." And start doing something to stop this maddness before my best friend is killed or worse!

Posted by: Exiled Exiled at February 1, 2007 02:54 PM


All I know is that regardless of whether or not the additonal troops request is approved, they're already on the way.

Posted by: anon at February 1, 2007 02:54 PM


Yes support personnel are necessary for large deployments. The mistake was intervention in the first place. Hopefully, the new Congress will initiate a redeployment.

Posted by: monadnock at February 1, 2007 02:53 PM


Don't miss the real point of all of this: Haliburton. Although I don't think that this has caused a conflict of interest- he's always put the good of Haliburton before the good of this country, or the lives of our troops.

Posted by: Bob White at February 1, 2007 02:50 PM


Anyone(ex: kate) who thinks the President sent our troops into Iraq for oil, is a total JACKA$$.. you are an uneducated bleeding heart liberal and you were raised by people who must hold the same ideas and values that they unfortunately passed onto you. Thatis pathedic. I mean I cant believe how many stupid comments I've read thus far. Who do we surrender to? You moron, nobody. We kick their a$$es and take names. The reason i feel so badly for our troops is because they are limited to how they can engage the enemy.. (thanks again liberals!) And another post... "how do we even know what al Quaeda looks like?" Thats the point you idiot... They dress like everyone else... They blow up women and children... They hide bombs on roads and dont fight our miltary cause they would get taken to the shed. I've got all you losers down to a T. You probably hate your life.. ur job probably sucks (if you have one).. and all you do is complain. Why should the govt spend any money on something that needs to be taken care of militarily abroad? when we could spend it on something that would benefit you. Its like listening to hollywood.. If 9/11 ever happened in beverly hills.. They'd be singing a different tune. Instead of complaining about nonsense, pray for our troops safe return when they are done bringing to the people of the middle east something we have all been fortunate enought to enjoy.... FREEDOM... I'd like to see you in their shoes.. You'd be begging for help from a country like the U.S. I would like to see how every celebrity, journalist, and liberal would act with all of their freedoms taken from them... You cant imagine it can you. Those people in Iraq couldnt imagine having a voice before we got there. Nobody said it was gonna be easy, cause its not gonna be.... But were not leaving.. so ride it out.

Posted by: andrew at February 1, 2007 02:49 PM


Wow. Lots of dead enders and wingnuts here.

Bush caught lying again. 35,000 or 48,000 is not 21,500. Shrub said 21,500. That is a lie. There is no other possible meaning.

Listening and reading comprehension must be tough when you're a Republican-American.

Posted by: weinerdog43 at February 1, 2007 02:49 PM


Yes John. Thank you very much. "It could be said that in the end partition worked". And yes it cost many lives, but guess whose.......theirs not ours. What they do in their land is their problem, and if it takes seven years of NATO troops, bombing and many of their lives to WIN the peace, then so be it. It works and it leaves the amount to die up to them.

I have little doubt most of what all the fighters want is American soldiers out of their country. Once that happens, Iraqi's will have no need for Al Qaida, string them up and then get on with their civil war to determine who will control the resources. And in the end, the country will be split along sectarian lines, each controlling different parts of oil rich regions. Once that is done, then they sell their oil and run their regions in a manner that makes them the most secure........peacefully!

Posted by: PAR at February 1, 2007 02:48 PM


We NEED to bring back the draft!

Posted by: Rob at February 1, 2007 02:45 PM


You have no idea what your talking about. Dont you remember the supposed HUGE scandel during the election about how a munitions dump was left ungaurded and that same decision came back to haunt/cause loss of life for our soldiers. Yet it came to light that leading up to the war Russian Troops were inside Iraq, taking explosives/weapons etc etc out (which they were never supposed to have sold to Saddam). And even now weapons (Brand New ones) from Iran have made their way into Iraq undetected until found on the battlefield. WMD's could have easily been hidden or smuggled out. And if we had gone to Iraq for OIL then we wouldnt be paying 2.50 a gallon. Not to mention the corrupt Iraqi government keeping all they make off oil while we pay for rebuilding their countery better than it was before we went in. In the words of AOL speek : STFU.

Posted by: Dan at February 1, 2007 02:45 PM


we can only pray that the President will have the same success with the on the war on terror as he has had with the war on drugs. God Bless the Correct People

Posted by: lokis at February 1, 2007 02:41 PM


The battle in Iraq is lost and President Bush knows it. The surge is about withdrawal. Once the "surge" fails, as it undoubtably will, we will see much hand wringing and talk in Washington about the Iraqi's unwillingness to "do the right thing". Our troops will be brought home. This will create a power vacuum in the geographical entity that is known as Iraq drawing other interested regional powers into the mix. This, in my opinion, is the real goal of the administration. Syria and Iran have a natuaral alliance while America has such a presence on thier borders. Once we have left Iran and Syria will remember that they really dont like each other, and that they don't have that much in common. Iraq's neatural wealth is the prize for them to fight over after we leave, and will most likely destabilize them and the region for some time to come. After the smoke clears and the killing mostly ceases, we will return in force to pick up the pieces.

Posted by: silas at February 1, 2007 02:39 PM


Stephen says:

"Funny, there was no lie in going to Iraq. The WMD's were sent via a russian airplane to Damascus. This story is coraborated by Sadams then #2 general in a detailed interogation."

Correction: the story was not "corroborated," but INVENTED by Georges Sada, who's made quite a name for himself by peddling it to American evangelical groups.

And if his story were true - if all those alleged WMD were transported, as Sada claims, via 52 flights to Syria at a time when Iraq was under intensive, continuous satellite surveillance by the US and its allies - then Bush was even more incompetent than he seems today.

But keep shoveling, as they say...there's bound to be a pony in there somewhere.

Posted by: Phila at February 1, 2007 02:31 PM


KATIE>>> Sorry but I'm right on this one. You seem to have a very bad case of short term memory loss or you are A.D.D.

sorry to hear your so dillusional.

Posted by: STEPHEN at February 1, 2007 02:21 PM


Its wrong to say that most Americans don't like Bush. He's a jovial enough fellow. A true village idiot if there ever was one. That does not mean I don't like him. Hell, he's good for a laugh almost every day.

But when he puts on his "The Decider" costume and starts making up stuff that gets American GIs killed for false reasons - that is just plain wrong! It should not be tolerated in a free country. It is his arrogant use of American resources (military and monetary) for what has become his own personal agenda that infuriates me. Every time the tide turns in Iraq he comes up with a new and different reason we have to be there. I think many of us are tired of the B.S.

So remember - Bush is good for a laugh. But it stops being funny when good American youth are being killed just because he's too stupid to try any other options.

Posted by: Hawk521 at February 1, 2007 02:21 PM


Stephen #1 You are totally wrong. Bush went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies richer. Bush even admitted that they went into Iraq for OIL,OIL,OIL.There was no WMD in Iraq. This was an illegal war period.

Posted by: katie at February 1, 2007 02:18 PM


Stephen #1 You are totally wrong. Bush went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies richer. Bush even admitted that they went into Iraq for OIL,OIL,OIL.There was no WMD in Iraq. This was an illegal war period.

Posted by: katie at February 1, 2007 02:14 PM


I think it would be supporting our troops better to keep them from being killed in a pointless war than to ignore Bush's lies and subterfuge.

Posted by: Lauren at February 1, 2007 02:12 PM


NEWT

Posted by: Sunshine48 at February 1, 2007 02:08 PM


yeah, we can't talk to iran. somehow our sunni allies and we will craft a plan for security.

btw, sadr is the most anti-iran shi'ite you can find in iraq. i guess you'd rather support hakim (who visited the white house in december) great, all those lives lost to empower iran's favorite, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. genius!

Posted by: benjoya at February 1, 2007 02:08 PM


NEWT

Posted by: Sunshine48 at February 1, 2007 02:08 PM


Funny, there was no lie in going to Iraq. The WMD's were sent via a russian airplane to Damascus. This story is coraborated by Sadams then #2 general in a detailed interogation. Why the media will not report this is beyond me,...Oh ya if they report this then Bush and the rest of the worl were correct. ooops can't have that, eveybody hates Bush. Oh and don't forget this about Oil, not, if it was for oil why not go into Venezuela removed that dictator and keep the fight in this hemisphere. Because this war is a two front war thats why. One was to liberate Iraq, the other is to combat muslim facists.

Posted by: STEPHEN at February 1, 2007 02:08 PM


Iran is Bush's Cambodia...
let us revisit..1970
http://vietnam.vassar.edu/doc15.html

Posted by: nogo postal at February 1, 2007 02:04 PM


The value of 21,500 was never enough, and we have known for a while that the ratio of support to infantry is bloated. This is not surprising. However, it is troubling that the increase is just now being considered, and that the plan from the beginning involved 21,500 infantry, NOT including support. I blog on the recent reports from generals that the equipment to support the troops may not be available, from supplies to transport to "up-armored" HMMWVs, in "Do you support the war but not the troops?."

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2007/01/31/do-you-support-the-war-but-not-the-troops/

Posted by: Herschel Smith at February 1, 2007 01:41 PM


It's bloody amazing. This president demonstrably lied to all of us, including US troops as to the reasons for going to war in Iraq. Worse than that has been the bloody outcome, a civil war which threatens the stability of the region, and indeed our security. All of us who have been screaming at this president since long before the war started, haven't been doing it out of some natural calling from the wild, of being a natural born Bush hater. We've been screaming at him all along because of his actions, his words, and now the results of such. That anyone can still support this walking disaster, especially in regards to his criminal and reckless use of our awesome military, is fascinating. The issue of being against this war, this surge, does not at all equate to not supporting the troops. It hasn't been Bush that has stepped up and tried to expand benefits to returning vets. It wasn't Bush who harped on the need to up-armor the humvees. It wasn't Bush who refused to cut their combat pay while in a combat zone. It's not Bush refusing to send more into a frikken civil war where they haven't a rats chance in hell of deciding who is the enemy. But we are to believe that it's Bush, and his die hard supporters who really really support the troops, and not us who didn't want any of them to die for a lie in the first place. Seems illogical.

Posted by: Brian at February 1, 2007 01:36 PM


This country seriously needs to get over the fact that most of us do not like Bush, and instead make sure that our troops there have our full support to win this war. Our only exit strategy should be victory, defined by a cessation of hostilities by the Shi'a militias, the destruction of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the end of the Baathist insurgency.

Interesting. This fine bit of advice assumes that the United States is in a position to influence events. What carrot does the US offer all these fine folks to desist? Nothing. We can't protect anybody. What stick? The alleged 20,000+ troops "stick" would have a hard time working even assuming that they were trained and fully equipped. But they are not. There are no active Army units at the brigade level or higher with sufficient readiness to deploy. They lack key personnel and equipment, and if they go they will be useless. Reserve units (including Marine reserve units) stateside have had no money for serious training, so they're going over to the sandbox and won't have any idea what to do, either. And their equipment is falling apart or nonexistent.

How did America's intelligence fall so far as to believe that all it takes to win is a will to win? It takes logistics and we have none. It takes an intelligent strategy, and there is none. Our military's gone terminal as far as Iraq is concerned, and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

Posted by: Mr. Flibble at February 1, 2007 01:34 PM


Yugoslavia, after it was split apart, was in a state of chaos for SEVEN years. Only NATO troops and a massive air campaign on Serbia put an end to the violence.

It could be said that in the end partition worked, but the cost in lives was major. Major cities were purged of ethnic minorities. Now, the partitioned countries are essentially homogenous. Are you really proposing that multi-ethnic cities like Baghdad and Mosul be purged of ethnic minorities so a split can work? Please.

Posted by: John at February 1, 2007 01:31 PM


I ask Anonyomous: Was Yugoslavia in a state of chaos and sectarian genocide after it fell apart? Are there now multiple states that are operating at levels one would like to see Iraq? Throwing too few troops at a problem seems, from many aspects, a dubious method for dealing with a sectarian civil war. I'd feel more comfortable if one could point to a sectarian civil war in history where a troop surge of this magnitude actually worked.

Posted by: PAR at February 1, 2007 01:25 PM


itreallydoesn'tmatter wrote: "The real amount of troops needed, to really stop the insurgents and bring order, is between 500,000 and 1,000,000. Less than that and we will never be successful. Unfortunately, we neither have the resources nor the political will to make that happen. This war is a travesty, in that good people know damn well that we are not fighting it in a way that will let us win, yet persist in pretending victory is only a year away. This war is lost. Bring the troops home."

That's exactly what I was going to write. Colin Powell has been proven correct as has George H. W. Bush; they knew better than to invade Bagdad in 1991 for *exactly* the reasons that have come to pass in Iraq now. This situation is as bad as it gets and there are no good answers. We *should* have stayed in Afghanistan and completed the mission there and, quite frankly, that STILL needs to be our #1 priority since the Taliban are returning to power in the vacuum we've left behind after sending our resources to Iraq. George W. Bush is the worst president in history.

Posted by: Tracy at February 1, 2007 01:24 PM


The Prez should surge 100,00 troops, terrorize the terrorists, surround Sadar City, round up every militia member and execute Muqta al Sadar where they find him.

The the PR people deal with the fall out.

Posted by: Dano at February 1, 2007 01:24 PM


Did anyone thoroughly read their CBO's comment. 1. "Assume....." break that down ass/u/me....Never trust comments when assume is placed in their supposedly factual findings.
2. "If........" as the the say goes, "if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his butt!"

Come on.....enough as this Bush hatred.....bipartisan....if so, then why comment on assume's and if's.

Posted by: E J at February 1, 2007 01:24 PM


Bush LIE? no, no more than Clinton "I did not have sexual relations with that woman!".....cute, huh? all depends upon ones' own interpretation of the wording....

no, Bush didn't lie. WE all understood him to mean "combat" troops, and he meant us to understand that.....while still being able to field as many other personnel as he wants....

in any case, it's all moot. Iraq is a loss. Shall we begin gearing up for Iran now?

and Osama laughs and laughs and laughs.....

Posted by: campbell at February 1, 2007 01:23 PM


And also, they do want to kill the British. 130 of them have given their lives so far. The British have been successful in southern Iraq for two reasons... (1) their troop levels are sufficient for counter-insurgency compared to the population they control, as well as the relative level of the insurgency, and (2) southern Iraq is more homogenous, and less prone to the type of sectarian fighting that was provoked by al Qaeda in Baghdad and Anbar.

so then to compare what the british are doing to what we are doing....kinda like apples and oranges yes?...look dude...we all want to "win the war", we all want the terrorists dead, we all want justice for the attack on our country...but not at the cost of one more american life or limb at this point...time for a new solution, not same ole...and dont try to tell me that they will "follow us over here". thats a fuc∈ irresponsible, and TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED GUESS. guess what...they were already here for sept 11, and the 93 bombing, and i imagine still out there in our beloved homeland. but finding a peaceful solution or a violent solution cannot guarantee our safety, and anyone who believes "winning in iraq" will do so...is living in a fantasy

Posted by: tony at February 1, 2007 01:23 PM


You're missing the point. Clear and HOLD. Our troops DON'T leave. They clear the militias, let them "Scatter," if you will, and then allow the Iraqi police to take over. Order is restored, rebuilding begins anew, and as time passes, the desire for young Iraqis to join the Mahdi army or whatever else is out there will dissipate.

This doesn't require our troops to be there forever, just long enough to secure Baghdad and Anbar, allow the government to gain control of the entire country, and allow the Iraqi police/army the time and ability to quickly put an end to any activity that resurges.

I am over-simplifying this, but it is the best option. In five years time, Baghdad will look more like Los Angeles. There will be violence between rival factions/gangs/criminals, but for the most part, society will function.

Posted by: John at February 1, 2007 01:23 PM


if its not 300,000 troops, its just more of a total waste of American lives. Bush is bum, had he or cheney had ever served, they would have sent 300,000 to begin with. What a waste! But thank god the dems took back control. We need to cut and run the hell out of Iraq, right towards afganistan and pakistan, where we should have been all along.

Posted by: willis at February 1, 2007 01:22 PM


(This was "Anonymous", though I don't see how "John" or "Tony" is any less anonymous)

I agree there are other plans out there. I've seen them. I happen to support this one. Diplomacy with Iran and Syria just doesn't seem too pleasing to me. We are engaged in diplomacy with other, more moderate states in the region to gain support, by the way.


And also, they do want to kill the British. 130 of them have given their lives so far. The British have been successful in southern Iraq for two reasons... (1) their troop levels are sufficient for counter-insurgency compared to the population they control, as well as the relative level of the insurgency, and (2) southern Iraq is more homogenous, and less prone to the type of sectarian fighting that was provoked by al Qaeda in Baghdad and Anbar.

Posted by: John at February 1, 2007 01:18 PM


ok...so cessation of militia...hmmm, they scatter until our troops leave, or have you figured out a way to hunt them all down?

destruction of al quada....hmmm...how will you know when you've acheived that, since we let many of them sign up for the iraqi military unbeknowst to us

can you tell a baathist from a suni? think the troops can? oh yeah thats right, they wear those silly pink uniforms....

Posted by: tony at February 1, 2007 01:17 PM


and did ya ever think the british plan might be working because they dont want to kill the british...they want to focus on us...the snake, the beast, the evil empire, as they call us? who are you wanting to declare victory over, pal? the terrorists? hmmmm...ill bet there might be some others lerking in other parts of the globe besides iraq...whaddya think?

Posted by: tony at February 1, 2007 01:12 PM


While Bush didn't say "combat troops," in both his address to the nation and the SOTU he made it clear that the troops will have the authority to clear and secure troublesome Iraqi neighborhoods, in fact, this is part of their defined mission.

So we have 21,000+ troops going in with the mission (among other things) to work with Iraqi forces to clear and secure troublesome neighborhoods. Sounds like combat troops to me. Perhaps he could have been more specific. Perhaps he intentionally was NOT more specific so as not to tip the enemy off as to the exact number of combat troops heading to Iraq. At any extent, this is clearly not a LIE.

This country seriously needs to get over the fact that most of us do not like Bush, and instead make sure that our troops there have our full support to win this war. Our only exit strategy should be victory, defined by a cessation of hostilities by the Shi'a militias, the destruction of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the end of the Baathist insurgency.

If you don't believe the President listened to alternatives, that is your choice. The fact is, you must admit that you don't know whether he listened to alternatives or not. Perhaps he did, but decided that this is the wisest course. Regardless this is the course we are taking. Shouldn't we all hope that it is the right one?

Posted by: Anonymous at February 1, 2007 01:12 PM


But of course!

Posted by: Anne Holmes at February 1, 2007 01:11 PM


hey "nony" you coward, since the already attempted escalation/violence plan didnt work, and there is not guarantee that this "new" plan will work, why not at least attempt a solution through diplomacy. how can it be a worse plan than the one on the table? (btw there are now about 12 other plans floating out there put forth by those opposed to the escalation)

Posted by: tony at February 1, 2007 01:08 PM


Waiting for alternatives. I've heard Murtha's Okinawa plan, and Joe "pretty clean himself also for a white guy" Biden's strategy of splitting the country in three, which worked so well in the former Yugoslavia. The ISG's plan was essentially to slowly cut and run, and beg Iran and Syria for help. As trustworthy as Iran and Syria are, I don't have a lot of faith in them. Besides, Iran is too busy hosting holocaust denial conferences and sending their own troops into Iraq to cause trouble to want to seriously sit down and talk, anyway.

This plan seems to follow the British model, which is to have enough troops to clear and hold troublesome areas. (remember, though the British have fewer troops, they also are only occupying sparsly populated (with the exception of Basra) southern Iraq, and with much more success).

Posted by: Anonymous at February 1, 2007 01:04 PM


question...who are we supposed to surrender to? i mean...theyre not even organized enough to have leadership roles...should we surrender to osama? and for those of you who want to just "kill the terrorists", uh...how do you tell them apart from regular middle eastern citizens? this should have been a special ops, and intelligence war to "find and bring to justice" those who attacked our country, i mean isnt that how all this crap started?

Posted by: tony at February 1, 2007 01:00 PM


The real amount of troops needed, to really stop the insurgents and bring order, is between 500,000 and 1,000,000. Less than that and we will never be successful. Unfortunately, we neither have the resources nor the political will to make that happen. This war is a travesty, in that good people know damn well that we are not fighting it in a way that will let us win, yet persist in pretending victory is only a year away. This war is lost. Bring the troops home.

Posted by: itreallydoesn'tmatter at February 1, 2007 12:59 PM


Hey Anonymous. Try re-READiING the SOTU address and find the Presidents words "So we're deploying reinforcements of more than 20,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Iraq". NO mention of "combat" anywhere. Contrary to what the Adminstration pounds into the media every five minutes, there are ALTERNATIVE plans for Iraq that are neither CUT nor RUN.

Posted by: PAR at February 1, 2007 12:56 PM


As a Vietnam veteran, it sure looks like we're headed down the same road. Will we never learn?

Posted by: Duane Burritt at February 1, 2007 12:55 PM


Anonymous,
What you and too many others fail to grasp is that disagreeing with the President's "plan" (for lack of a better term) in Iraq is not the same as abandoning the stated goals for Iraq.

And let me go ahead and address yor next point for you - "If you've got a better plan let's hear it". I've got some thoughts, but I'm no Middle East diplomacy or military anti-insurgency expert. Ask them. But it won't matter, because Bush already has, and has discarded all of their plans, suggestions, and advice in favor of his "gut".

Posted by: legion at February 1, 2007 12:54 PM


This is just going to incite the insurgency even more. It's a civil war. American lives aren't worth wasting over people who are always going to kill each other. Bring them home NOW.

Posted by: bodemillerjokes at February 1, 2007 12:52 PM


Send 300,000 troops, get the job done, kill the terrorists and the backstabbers in the Iraqi government (like these 2 generals), and get the hell out of there in 6 months.

End of story.

Posted by: Baldeagle79 at February 1, 2007 12:48 PM


I'm of two minds. On one hand, increasing troop levels will be helpful in maintaining the peace and scaring away militias. There are countless examples of violence and instability returning to previously stable areas once the US forces move to another area.

On the other, The troop numbers really need to be increased to much higher levels to really make a difference, perhaps in the range of 150,000-200,000. BushCo has tried to win Iraq on the cheap from the get go, and this instance is no exception. If Iraq was as crucial as they tell the public, they'd be doing things like raising taxes to fund an expanded war effort and vastly increasing the size of the military, whether by hook or by crook.

Posted by: Brian at February 1, 2007 12:47 PM


Not neccessarily a lie. Possibly another calculated mis-direct or, nearly as bad, a basic misunderstanding by our esteemed Commander in Chief.

Posted by: PAR at February 1, 2007 12:47 PM


Pay me now or pay me later, we get out tomorrow save GI lives, stay lose more lives, and nothing changes, we just find someone to blame it on and move on ... idiot chimp and idiots who believe him

Posted by: IdiotChimp at February 1, 2007 12:45 PM


Its about time Bush did what the Democrats told him to do last summer and send enough troops in there to get the job done!

Posted by: veteranman at February 1, 2007 12:45 PM


It is not appropriate to lie by saying falsely that Bush lied.

Posted by: Richard L.A. Schaefer at February 1, 2007 12:45 PM


It's not a lie. He requested 21,000 more combat troops. Combat troops need support, thus there will be additional support troops.

Nobody is doing anything to stop this because it would be insane to send in 21,000 combat troops without support.

Of course, I'm sure you'd prefer to surrender and leave Iraq for al Qaeda and Iran to split up, and then hope they just leave us alone. Sure worked well in the past, didn't it? If you disagree, meet me at the Windows on the World restaurant anytime you'd like to discuss over lunch. My treat.

Posted by: Anonymous at February 1, 2007 12:43 PM


Gee, can that be right?? Bush lied again? I'm in total shock. How come nobody is doing anything to stop this?

Posted by: Vinny at February 1, 2007 12:39 PM


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