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I had read in this site few years ago that a military vehicle called humve2 will replace the humvee. So when will this vehicle be ready to be used by the military ?

Posted by: tom at December 28, 2007 09:45 AM

I am a welder and I have a better idea for a armored vehichles in Iraq.It was a welder who came up with the adapter to bust through the hedge groves in France in WW2,I have one that will lessen the danger from the roadside bombs.Im a welder,not a quarterback recliner.

Posted by: James Fullerton at October 1, 2007 01:42 PM

What about the Aussie Bushmaster APC.
The Bushmaster carries 10 infantry and is blast resistant.
The Netherlands just bought 25 of the Bushmaster to use in Afghanistan.
Australia already uses a number of the Bushmaster in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: Mick at March 30, 2007 09:27 AM

If you guys buys South African Products whilst in Irag and Afganistan, you will be saving lifes. This Vehicles were made specifically for Mine protection. In the mean time you still need you troops back home in the USA,so just buy what is on the market whilst you are still developing.
good luck guys

Posted by: Martin Modisane at March 27, 2007 09:15 AM

Here's the MRAP leader... They got 3 models: Bufallo, cougar and the new smaller cheetah.

Amazing trucks, the lucky troops that got one of those simply loves them!

http://www.forceprotection.net/

Posted by: Eric Gagnon at March 26, 2007 06:24 PM

The M-1114 is great, but too heavy. We got stuck about three times that I recall due to the tire not spreading the weight evenly enough over the ground/road. As far as needing more armor it makes the vehicle safer, but less mobile.

Just food for thought.

Posted by: noip at March 26, 2007 04:30 PM

As a former soldier that was in during the switch from the jeep to the hummer, I can say that the hummer is a worthy replacement for a jeep, but it is far from a cure-all. I agree with the use of Strykers for convoy duty and anywhere an armored solution is needed. My son currently serves in Iraq and he says that the uparmored hummers are a good step forward, but something more is needed. Let's just hope Congress doesn't make things worse in the name of petty politics and cut the funding needed to find a better (Vehicular)fit.

Posted by: Bob Gray at March 25, 2007 07:25 PM

I agree call in the strykers, I for one was glad to see the jeep replaced, it like the hummer served a purpose in its time, now with the IEDs its time for something like the stryker. The Hummer still has a role to play, such as light duties on base or maybe in a perimeter defense role where it can move within a secured perimeter and be a part of a reaction force, but for leading convoys of heavy trucks (command and control) its time for something else.

Posted by: Rich Stockton at March 25, 2007 06:25 PM

The British Army used Brinks like trucks here in Belfast for the last few years. i swear ther're modified versions with heavy armour, does anyone know how they have been in Iraq/Afghan compared to their Landrover snatch vehicles?

Posted by: John at March 25, 2007 12:41 PM

I spent 13 years as a squid.. Part of the "Glowing, Smoking Hole Group" And Part of MAD.. A Fair Assesment of the Concept but not even good english... But it seems to ME that a One size Fits all Design, Doesn't Fit any Purpose really well...

But what do I know....

Posted by: Chuck at March 25, 2007 07:08 AM

We were using the gun trucks years ago in desert storm. They worked great then, they'll work great now. Everyone in the combat theatre knows that when you add all the armor plate to the hummers, all you do is slow it down and bog it down in the sand. Fuel consumption goes WAY up, and a convoy sitting still to refuel its own vehicles in the middle of nowhere ALWAYS gave me the willies.

I'm not saying that armoring it was exactly a bad idea ... just ask any of the survivors that crawled out of one that got blown to hell. But trying to use the same chassis for EVERYTHING just doesnt work. Relegate the hummer to what it was designed for: scouting, and light infantry support.

You need something with a little more punch than Ma Deuce?? Call in some Strikers or Bradleys. When their 20's talk, people dont listen ... cuz they got killed before they can hear the report. Both have proven themselves to be great command vehicles, ambulances, infantry support, and even though they are armored, they can really kick up their heels when its time for some git up and go!

Posted by: J C M (>>> at March 24, 2007 12:34 AM

As a Vietnam era vet, I was doubtful of the wisdom of trying to use one vehicle chassis to replace units as different as a M151 JEEP AND A m715 1 1/4 ton truck. I have been impressed with the off-road ability and adaptability of the HUMVEE but still doubt the wisdom of the choice. It seems to be a jack of all trades and master of none.

Armored gun trucks worked well in Vietnam as a counter to unconventional warfare and should work as well in Iraq. They need to be supported by light, fast armored units to provide heavy punch, but are inexpensive, durable and adaptable.

Posted by: Richard Smith at March 23, 2007 11:31 PM

We went to war with vehicles that were marginal for what they were designed for. Then we put them in places and situations they were never designed to go. Try accelerating in an up armor, you can get out and run quicker. You have a normally aspirated GM 6.2 or the "new improved" 6.5 diesel. It cannot get out of its own way.
Retire them all, replace them with vehicles that will withstand a "moderate" IED. They are out there.

Posted by: John at March 23, 2007 11:27 PM

Having used the HMMWVs as convoy command/control/security platforms in Iraq, the 1800# payload of the HMMWV up-armored with ~1000# of armor plate was an issue that left us scratching our heads. The range of the HMMWVs was often a factor in halting an entire convoy of fuel trucks (M915-A2s) to re-fuel the HMMWVs.

By the end of our year-long deployment, most of the HMMWVs were broken or wrecked but the old sandbag shielded 5-tons that we used as gun trucks kept right on rolling.

For all the shortcomings of the old jeeps, at least nobody could accuse them of pretending to be an armored vehicle like the up-armored, aluminum foil-floored HMMWVs.

I've been looking at the Brinks trucks and wondering how they would fare if given a combat role.

Posted by: TargetDriver at March 23, 2007 05:17 PM

The real problem here is the Humvee was designed for conventional warfare as a vehicle to move troops to and from the front line. It's new role is front line combat during Urban warfare. The vehicle is too large, too heavy and nowhere near mobile enough for this job. The military is trying to use the one size fits all concept by upgrading the Humvee. Having variations of a weapon (be it a plane, tank, troop carrier) is fine if this was part of the original concept, but band aid fixes, modifications will never get the job done.

Posted by: Nelson Samot at March 23, 2007 03:57 PM

Who is doing the upgrades on hummers also how can I get a job with them as a welder Fabricator/Mechanic I live in Florida and have a home in Ma. PLEASE HELP

Posted by: Norman H.Cournoyer at March 23, 2007 03:40 PM

The HMMWV is not a tank. It wasnt designed to be a tank so quit trying to make it a tank. We've got all these Bradleys and Strykers that we spent so much money on so lets use them. What really needs to happen instead of designing a whole new vehicle is just redesign the HMMWV. Gives it a stronger suspension, powerplant, transmission and some composite armor on the sides and back with plating on the floor and ballistic glass for the windshield and door.

Posted by: Jim at March 23, 2007 02:12 PM

Like anything else the military planners contract
to have produced, they try to get one item to replace 5, spending '10 cents' in production and
development costs, then millions in modifications
and upgrades. Exaggeration? Just look at the M16,the Beretta 'NATO' pistol, the F-111 and now
the JSF. All these military machines were
created to unify the armed forces inventory thus
reducing costs. When will the planners realize
we have 4 (not including the Coast Guard)
distinct armed forces with their own UNIQUE
missions. These missions require just as unique
machinery and armaments. If the Congress TRULY
wishes to save costs in the military, try
promoting fewer admirals and generals! Maybe
then we can afford to give our people the stuff
they need to carry out the orders of the
Commander in Chief!

Posted by: Paul at March 23, 2007 12:46 PM

Like anything else the military planners contract
to have produced, they try to get one item to replace 5, spending '10 cents' in production and
development costs, then millions in modifications
and upgrades. Exaggeration? Just look at the M16,the Beretta 'NATO' pistol, the F-111 and now
the JSF. All these military machines were
created to unify the armed forces inventory thus
reducing costs. When will the planner realize we
have 4 (not including the Coast Guard) distinct
armed forces with their own UNIQUE missions
These missions require just as unique machinery
and armaments. If the Congress TRULY wishes to
save costs in the military, try promoting fewer
admirals and generals! Maybe then we can afford
to give our people the stuff they need to carry
out the orders of the Commander in Chief!

Posted by: Paul at March 23, 2007 12:44 PM

It was made to replace the M-151 Jeep and 1 1/2T truck.It wasn't designed to be a M-113 APC.Let's get real and use as it was designed.Bradleys were made to replace APC's, use them.

Posted by: Bruce at March 23, 2007 12:10 PM

Like it has been said a Humvee is not an APC but the US needs to build our own equipment. The Humvee was getting over loaded when we had XM1109s in Bosnia. We out source everything else not the military. Even if we don't design it let's build it.

Posted by: Kent at March 23, 2007 09:41 AM

If you need a tank, use a tank. Trying to make a vehicle into a tank will end up as another tank. Not cost effective. It would be better to design and build a desired vehicle than a hodge-podge upgrade of a humvee.

Posted by: Charlie Brown at March 23, 2007 07:26 AM

I find it both funny and sad when I read about the proposed 'upgrades.' Modified antennas, more electrical power and a rear mounted video camera aren't the sort of things one typically sees as helping to make the vehicle safer. As for the easy to pop out windows, I wonder how many times getting out has been an issue, especially when th doors have already been blown off by the force of the explosion? Get serious, the only upgrades that will save lives is to get people out of the current vehicle and into something better. Adding additional armor to help make it safer only tends to slow it down while lining the pockets of those who win the contracts.
The really sad part is that the South Africans already had the the answer years ago, but those who control this sort of things either didn't see that or didn't want to because they had ties to firms like AMC.

Posted by: Dorsai at March 23, 2007 05:49 AM

So, why did the US military turn down the opportunity to buy the South African vehicles. Sounds like a domestic profit motive to me.

Posted by: Jeff at March 23, 2007 04:14 AM

The spec ops version of the Humvee (the GMV) does well in places like Afganistan, but 2 things to keep in mind- 1.-all GMNVs are extensively modified by the users in terms of firepower and survivability in ways that would make Monster Garage look tame. Much of this material is aquired by "unconventional means" 2.-If you hit a typical IED in one of these things, you are lucky if anyone survives.

Posted by: bo at March 23, 2007 03:44 AM

Foreign Boy,

I'd say that Canada was able to field new technologies more quickly because they have a lot fewer forces deployed? If the US Army is going to field those vehicles in proportionate quantities, they'd have to purchase a lot more of them. Being the biggest sometimes means moving the slowest.

Posted by: Brian at March 21, 2007 08:25 AM

Foreign Boy,

I'd say that Canada was able to field new technologies more quickly because they have a lot fewer forces deployed? If the US Army is going to field those vehicles in proportionate quantities, they'd have to purchase a lot more of them. Being the biggest sometimes means moving the slowest.

Posted by: Brian at March 21, 2007 08:23 AM

Mrnitropb the trucks from S Africa that you were unclear about is the RG31, Cougar, Husky, and Buffalo. I have had a lot of experience with these trucks in the box and trust me when I saw you want to be in these trucks when a bomb goes off. Too bad we had to wait till the war was started before we had them.

Posted by: Allan at March 19, 2007 11:16 PM

mrnitropb the trucks from S Africa that you were inclear about is the RG31, Cougar, Husky, and Buffalo. I have had a lot of experince with these trucks in the box and trust me when I saw you want to be in these trucks when a bomb goes off. Too bad we had to wait till the war was started before we had them.

Posted by: Allan at March 19, 2007 11:16 PM

Mr. Wilson's comments are very extreme.... I think the problem with 'leveling a city' is that trying to win over the civilian population is part of a winning strategy. Imagine if you were told that your home was about to be leveled in a situation similar to Red Dawn (Russians occupying west coast USA).. the Iraq Equivalent is that you would become an insurgent. I certainly hope that when they say that the government is getting in the way of doing their jobs... I think it's because they don't want casualties, and end up camping out in big bases (Ref: New Lawrence of Arabia)

Mike:
While I agree with Mike that the HUMVEE was meant to be a Jeep. I was surprised to hear Canada was able to procure new 'existing' technologies in over 2 years.... why can't the US do the same? I guess it's they are always looking forward, and not looking at the now.

Posted by: Foreign.Boy at March 19, 2007 02:51 PM

The title of the post should have been Bureaucracy wins out.

More than likly the troops will be out of Iraq and Afghanistan, before a MRAP program is delivered.

MRAP vehicles are different than a HUMVEE. The HUMVEE was simply not designed for what its is encountering in Iraq and Afghanistan. As to whether a armored car or a BAE upgrades will do , well I guess you can make do with anything.
"With flat-bottomed vehicles, the blast effect can be amplified if an explosion occurs directly beneath. A blast wave striking the underside will be ‘reflected’ back at the ground. Before dissipating, that energy will be redirected at the vehicle
"

The web site
Canadian American Strategic Review .

has a series of articles about the differences between armoured and blast resistant vehicles

Blast-Resistant Vehicles For Beginners: Distinguishing 'Armoured' From 'Mine-' and 'Blast-Resistant' Vehicles

Posted by: Peter at March 19, 2007 02:48 PM

Lie mike said, there's plenty of wheeled transports on the market, that were designed with mine resistance. Can't think of names of th etop o my head, but I know South Africa developed several transports/fav/whatnot vehicle that would hold up against any of th ethousands of AT mines scattered through out thier neighborhood.

Hell, then there's the Merkeva Namera, and such APC's. Take an old take, clean out the insides, put on remote weapons station on it, and have an APC that can take a hit, and hit back.

Posted by: mrnitropb at March 19, 2007 02:32 PM

Actually, it is antennas and not antennae for hardware. Only antennae for insects.

See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antenna

Posted by: Dave Barnes at March 19, 2007 02:31 PM

I have been trying to follow the War in Iraq and since I am a Vietnam Veteran (1967-1968 [68 Tet Offensive)I find the way our Government allows our Military to fight or should I say the way our Government does not allow our Military to fight this current war, it makes me sick and mad to find our KIA and wounded in Action totals to rise on a daily basis. The work I did in Vietnam was mainly Top Secret and I cannot devulge what I did.

I believe in Vietnam that we did not loose a major battle and if our Government would have let us fight the war how it was suppose to be from a military perspective, at the very least we would have had a north and a south Vietnam.

As in Vietnam, it is in Iraq and Afganistan, we need better equipment and we need to be able to use the lethal weapons that we have in our arsenal. We are loosing our soldiers when we should not be. Instead of having a somewhat high dollar payment for the death of our soldiers, we must take some of that money and upgrade our humvee's so the road side bombs take a lower death rate. We need to use the weapons that are in our inventory to fight against our enemy. We need to give the civilian population a very short time to evacuate a town, a city, an area in general, and at the end of that very short period of time, we need to level the area in question. I know some of the ememy will escape as a result of this method, but they do not care about their fellow country men and women and this is quite evident by the many are being killed on a daily basis. I do not know any one personnally fighting in Iraq or Afganistan, but every time one of our force is killed or wounded, it hurts me deeply.

I do not care of the political outfall that would result by these methods, but I do care greatly about those of our killed and wounded.

Except for Isreal, none of the world countries cares about us except for our money we give them in a time of need for them.

We are suppose to be the leading world power, let us show how powerful we are.

I am proud to me a Veteran and the service I performed for my Country. I have lost tears over my Brothers and Sisters who have lost their blood and life and it would break my heart if we would leave Iraq and Afganistan and not have resolved the terrible issue we are fighting for.

In closing, we can change a truck or a car to look better and safer in a very short period of time if we have sound and proper planning. I am a 100 % disabled Veteran who cannot work or drive due to the pain I have and the medication I must take to lessen the pain caused by my diabetes Type II and my peripheral neurapothy that extends from my knees to my feet on both legs and the pain in both of my hands.

It is bad enough that the general public does not understand that I am going through this pain 24/7, but when my own family does not understand and will not let me hold my young grand babies or have for some reason have told my somewhat your grandchilder that if I touch them, kiss them, they will get my medical problems by just kissing them, hold them, hug them.

I am sorry for the context of these comments, but due to my medical condiltions I many times loose the ability to write sensible and understandable note to people. I have been told by the VA Medical Staff, that unless God sees fit to lessen my pain or better, takes the peripheral neuropathy away from me, I will only get worse. So, please forgive me and I hope you have been able to understand me. I love my COUNTRY and I am proud to have served it. I just need to pray and ask God to give me the ability to write a better and stronger understandable note to everyone.

In closing, I do not ask for sympathy, I ask for your prayer, asking God to help me, by taking HIS Big OL Daddy Arms and wrap them around me so I can feel HIS love, HIS power, HIS Grace, and be able to you and anyone else that GOD touched me since we last spoke, and HE made me feel so GREAT that I just had to tell someone besides my wife, who I have been married to for almost 34 years and she loves me dispite the HELL I put her through due to my pain 24/7.

May GOD BLess You and Keep you and may HE Wrap HIS big OL Daddy Arms around you and hug you so much and will not let go until you can fully know that it is coming from GOD and no one else.

Yours in Christ my fellow Brother,

Dan Wilson
Home E-mail - jammsreg@charter.net

Posted by: Daniel J. Wilson at March 19, 2007 12:51 PM

Someone made a good comment on this a few weeks back-- the Humvee was intended as a rear-areas liaison and utility vehicle. It's a Jeep replacement, folks.

Unsurprisingly, it's turned out to make a rather poor APC, and I kind of doubt that any amount of mods will address the fact that the Humvee is being asked to do jobs it was not designed for.

The stupid part of this is that there's no shortage of more suitable vehicles on the world market for pretty low prices, even as a stopgap measure.

Posted by: mike at March 19, 2007 11:18 AM