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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

The COIN Aircraft Comeback

ALXSuperTucano_5-web.jpg

The Iraqi air force in two years will be flying a new fleet of single-engine turboprops as counter-insurgency (COIN) aircraft. See the contract solicitation, posted by the US Air Force, here.

The requirement limits the potential bids to companies that have an aircraft that a) is already in wide use and b) is powered by the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engine.

That narrows the bidders to four that Defense Tech can think of: the Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano, the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6 Texan, the Korean Aerospace KO-1 Wong Bee and the Pilatus PC-9M.

Not to play favorites, but Defense Tech humbly suggests this means there are only two serious candidates: the AT-6 and EMB-314 -- with the AT-6 gaining a huge advantage from the "Made in America" sticker stamped on the program's marketing literature.

But don't count out the Brazilians with the Super Tucano. Expect the executives in Sao Jose Dos Campos to propose moving the EMB-314 assembly -- or opening a second production line -- to Florida, if they win the contract.

Keep your eye on this program. This could be the first of many such requirements for a dedicated counter-insurgency aircraft fleet to come down the line, both abroad and in the US.

A reader commented on The Dew Line a few weeks ago:

"The T-6 is a trainer, and attempts by Hawker Beechcraft (or whatever it's called this week) to remodel it as an armed platform are not convincing. That's not what it was designed to do.

"Remember, the T-6 is just a Pilatus PC-9 and the original Swiss design is forbidden by law from being armed...anyone with armed PC-9s has made their own, alternative, arrangements. So flying in combat is not in its genes. Attempts by Raytheon to compare the armed T-6 with the F-15 were met with an embarrassed silence at one show I remember, not so long ago.

"The Super Tucano on the other hand was designed to be a combat aircraft from Day 1 – that’s why it makes a lousy trainer because it’s so big and heavy. The Brazilians deploy it into Amazon dirt strips to fight drug smugglers, it has guns (not an “internal gun pod” but two 0.50-cals in the wing), it can carry air-to-air missiles and has a very sophisticated (data linked) cockpit (thank you Elbit). In its class the Super Tucano is probably the aircraft you want to go to war in."

Also, see my colleague John Croft's account of his recent experience flying the AT-6 here on FlightGlobal.com.

I'll just note that an armed variant of the T-6A is flown by the Hellenic Air Force, but lacks internally mounted guns in favor of a 50-cal pod.

-- Stephen Trimble

Comments


Camp is completely spot on with the old OV-10 with the turreted 3 barrelled 20mm autocannon. A cheap, efficient, reliable insurgent killing machine. I wonder why they ever got rid of it.

This terribly sticky, expensive counter insurgent war Bush got us in to requires a much simpler type of combat / recon aircraft than our other imagined enemies would - why use $15 Million supersonic jets and $80,000 bombs to killl a couple guys with an AK and an RPG riding in a toyota pickup? I don't want to pay for it anymore.

For a COIN aircraft I would think you want:

Great downward visibility
Really long loiter time
Slow flight speeds
A turreted FLIR
A turreted 20mm cannon
Fuel efficient engines, wings

What you don't need:
single engine in front, low wing blocking your view
high speed / dogfight capability
ANY bombs / missiles / rockets
defense from fighter Jets or AA fire (insurgents don't HAVE any)

The OV-10 with the 2 engines and twin boom tail gives you awesome visibility - the cockpit bulges out so you can see straight down.

A turreted 20mm cannon is one of the best COIN weapons, very accurate, low collateral damage, you can carry like 3000 rounds if it's the only weapon, and loiter above a town all day in a slow turn at 5,000 feet and destroy anything an insurgent is hiding in.

The idea is it is way cheaper than a helicopter, with far better loiter time, but still allows precise and easy shooting at ground targets from above. Why go on low level high speed strafing runs when you can just use a joystick to blast away at dots on your screen? If haven't seen AC-130 spooky video it's hard to imagine how effective turreted guns in a slow airplane is - there's nowhere to hide.

I hope someone out there is listening - we could save billions of dollars a year if we switched many flight operations over to some cheap, slow aircraft with turreted guns.

Posted by: Air Newbie at June 18, 2008 10:51 AM


Why not the IA-58 Pucara - upgraded with modern avionics, HUD, new engines and other features of latest generation aircraft? It is tough, battle proven, dependable, armored, dual-engined and packs a huge punch. It has significant excess carrying capacity as currently configured. It seems essentially like a turboprop A-10. Although no longer in production the assembly line could be reopened if enough planes were ordered.

Posted by: Fred at April 4, 2008 01:45 PM


But arm those COIN planes with:
EW array
More rocket pods
MiniGun Pod.
Missile pods.
40mm cannon pod.
Napalm
Armor plating
Strong engine.
2, 3 man crew.
Use for FAC???
Test use in Colombia Jungles, Peru,
So Mexico???
Carrier launched???
STOL
VSTOL
Hybrid type planes.
C123 reuse COIN gunship???
Reuse the T37??
T38???
T45?
Russian prop trainer plane, 1978 era, 1989 era.
Sweet.

Posted by: stephen russell at December 31, 2007 01:07 AM


The current crop of COIN aircraft are too slow. All of them need to be capable of approaching the Sound Barrier in a Dive safely and exceeding 500mph in level flight.

Most of current crop look like cheap upgrades of private light aircraft and not using the latest materials. Except for the tub around the pilot.

The PA48 Enforcer is a proven model to work from. Think the new T-6 is a promising but compromised 2nd design.

These COIN AC need to add full moving surfaces to provide instantaneous maneuverability. Build a 10k#, 6000 shaft HP Turbo Prop planne with Contra Rotating Propeller with the latest in movable configuration.

The Russian TurboProp Bears Top Speed Cruise is 575mph. SO it should be doeable.

These TurboProp COIN aircraft will be encountering all kinds of Combat Jets. They need to be competitive facing for example an East European L39 type light attack jets or an A10 or Russian Frog. Which would be hard pressed in a Dog Fight.

Even a Mig, F16 or F22 would have to be careful in close combat. Against a properly configured TurboProp with enough HP, Cannon and Rockets will turn the tide.

Posted by: Issa at December 13, 2007 04:25 PM


if they use MIGs, some guys won't make money.
that's what is wrong with MIGs

Posted by: some1 at October 21, 2007 08:01 PM


There was a unique aircraft built years ago called the Sadler Vampire that was adapted for COIN. A single seat, single engine, twin boom, pusher propeller airplane.

Posted by: gabe at October 8, 2007 09:39 AM


I was reading aircombat and saw that there was yet another updated version of the old mustang with a turbine (read turboprop) engine fitted for COIN missions they have been around for about three decades and to my knowledge no one has ever bought ONE! the mustang was a great aircraft and more than adequate ground attack but the newest of the airframes is what circa 1950? Even the skyraider would have worked if the airframes were not better than 45 years old.

Posted by: FooMan at October 3, 2007 01:51 PM


I think it is worth looking at the new Fairchild AU-23A with the new modern protective armor and weapons systems. They are very versital, adaptive and effective. Use them as an orbiting mini gunship (4 of them) now that is laying lead on the land, can also deliver troops, supplies, medical evacs and whatever else you might dream up. Sure they are slow, so are helicopters, so use common sence when you plan your missions. The price of these aircraft systems are less than half of the compition and they are so versatol and effective. Yes, there is one other thing, it is very short field capable and a tailwheel, requiring very good pilots.

Posted by: ELC at July 20, 2007 12:24 PM


Crikey, another expensive "tech" solution to a police problem. How fast will these little throwbacks be shot down? Very.

We wouldn't have so many insurgents if we hadn't foolishly invaded Iraq and tried to establish a colony, steal their oil and carelessly bombed the s@it out of "suspected" targets. Collateral damage is a great recruiting tool for Al Qaida.

But the money must be made, however bad the idea. Pea-shooters will win the war on terror!

Posted by: Josh Reese at May 23, 2007 01:00 PM


Re: why not use attack helicopters?
-faster
-cheaper to operate & repair.
-better payload

Why not migs-
to fast
unarmored
ancient cockpit
no modern avionics
need for steady stream of repairs.
engine swaps at absurdly low house.

Posted by: Aaron at May 15, 2007 12:23 AM


Another plane not to ignore is the Ayers Vigilante. Built from a modified Ayers Turbo Thrush it has a cockpit that seats two, was armored against small arms. It was equipped with FLIR and weapon support systems. Seven hour loiter time on all internal fuel, four hardpoints under each wing with innermost on each wing rated for 1200 lbs, and three tandem hardpoints under the fuselage for a total ordance lift of 4200 lbs. Several have been in use with the US State Department in the drug war in Columbia and have a respectable performance.

Of course they are cheap (reported less than $1.5 million per plane), and they are built from crop dusters, so they ain't sexy. Hell I think the *US* military could use a few to drop JDAMs on insurgents, but at a operating cost roughtly 1/5 of what a F16 is you ain't never going to see one acquired.

Posted by: Jeb at May 13, 2007 03:54 PM


Does anybody thought of the FMA IA-58 Pucara that was being used by the Argentinians during the Falklands war? It was built by Argentina specifically for COIN and it has 2 Hispano 20MM Cannon, but was replaced later on the IA-58B model with a pair of DEFA 30MM Cannon mounted on the belly of the fuselage. Plus 2 pairs of (7.62 MM) 30 Caliber Browning machine guns on each side of the forward fuselage. It can carry more ordanances than the Super Tucanos, Pilatus PC-9's and AT-6 Texans. Or, Why not used any surviving Hinds or Sukhoi's SU-25 Frogfoot if any of'em survived the Gulf War Part II.

Posted by: Virgilio "Lambada" Colcol at May 11, 2007 05:36 AM


Pete: The Super Tucano has an armored pilot capsule specifically to deal with ground fire.

And a little more performance info (if I was in charge of the Army convoys, I'd definatly want a few of these little bad boys overhead...

6.5 hour endurance, with a service ceiling of 35000 feet and a max speed of 400 knots.

Able to operate off of SHT@#{) airstrips in the amazon.

2x .50 caliber machine guns.

3000 lb bomb capacity (with advanced avionics for smart bombs, so 12 Small Diameter Bombs)

And $5M a pop.

So harder to hit than an Apache, cheaper, and with equal/more WhupAss.

As an insurgent, which would you rather deal with?

One F-22 or 40-50 of these little bad-boys?

Posted by: Nicholas Weaver at May 10, 2007 04:20 PM


The COIN A/c promoters share the same deception/delusion that nobody is going to shoot at these slow, lightly armored [pilots flak vest?] aluminum pidgeons. They won't have the benefit of the entire USAF loitering [wonderful word]with a cornupia of ordnance at their beck and call. give'm Hinds or A-10's, something survivable

Posted by: pete saussy at May 10, 2007 02:30 PM


Using a turboprop trainer for COIN is probably a better idea than trying to bring back an old aircraft. It's easier to get parts, and newer designs tend to benefit from a lot of improvements in design and maintainability. Fixed wing seems to have better survivability than helicopters, too, and vastly better reliability.

Posted by: George Skinner at May 9, 2007 12:20 PM


Update: It looks like the Tucano's former designer
has been brought in to help with the A-67 Dragon
COIN aircraft program. See:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/03/13/212539/us-aircraft-taps-tucanos-former-designer-for-new-look-a-67.html

Posted by: esmoore5 at May 9, 2007 11:00 AM


Personally, I liked the old Marine Corps OV-10 Night Observation Gunship (NOGS) with a turreted M197 20 mm gun slaved to a FLIR. Sort of a Mini-Spooky.

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/ov-10-nog.jpg

Posted by: Camp at May 9, 2007 08:50 AM


We are re-winging and upgrading the A-10's. No need to build new ones when the existing airframes are still sound - and with us until 2040. The Tucano is the best choice for this role. Open the line in FL so the systems can be installed under our supervision and fire up the PW Canada factories as well.

Don't go more capable than the COIN Tucano - basically a more capable Predator - there's still the question of training up trustworthy Iraqi pilots.

And if I had my choice of WWII planes to bring back for this role it'd be Vought F4U Corsair

Posted by: RTLM at May 9, 2007 01:07 AM


The first thing that comes to my mind is either the Pucara (no idea how I remembered that), or the heavily upgraded P-51 type-thingy ("Enforcer," after a moment of research) that we were supposed to build and ship to various South & Central American countries in the 80s.

Posted by: Kurt Montandon at May 8, 2007 08:36 PM


Might just as well pull out some A-37's out of storage.

Seems with the Navy standing up riverine warfare units and our Army fighting a counter-insurgency war while our Air Force is worried about the imminent communist err chinese airpower threat, we might as well avoid re-re-inventing the vietnam wheel for one time in this conflict.

Posted by: Joe at May 8, 2007 06:57 PM


Let's just bring back the the P-51 (updated appropriately, of course).

Posted by: Ken at May 8, 2007 03:53 PM


Attack choppers are super expensive...

Posted by: Foreign.Boy at May 8, 2007 02:00 PM


A little history, and a few comments.

The Iraqi Air Force used the Tucano as a trainer; they got them from Egypt. The Super Tucano was partially developed by Northrop with Embraer for the JPATS competition that was won by the T-6. IIRC, there were complaints that Raytheon reverse engineered or copied aspects of the Super Tucano.

If you read the RFP at the link, it calls for a 1200 hp engine. I think the standard T-6 engine is flat rated at less. That favors the Tucano, but the RFP also calls for significant use as a trainer. That might favor Raytheon, as might the requirements for interoperability of avionics, sensors, ISR equipment, etc. That's Raytheon's core business.

Bear in mind that we're probably not going to give the Iraqis a heavily armed platform they can use on our troops -- at least, not without one of our guys in the back seat with a pistol. Come to think of it, maybe that's why the USAF wants to go back to the .45.

In the near term, these aircraft will more likely be used for FAC -- e.g., as target designators, like the original T-6 Texans were used in Korea. They'll be "nodes" in the "battlespace", marking targets for US aircraft. In this context, COIN may not mean all the same things it has in the past.

Finally, bear in mind that the US torpedoed a sale of Super Tucanos to Venezuela, and it was proposed at the time (by Defense Industry Daily, IIRC) that we buy those Tucanos and give them to Iraq. Also bear in mind that Raytheon does business with Embraer.

Don't be surprised if the winner of this race is an Embraer with Raytheon avionics, and it costs more than either of them.

Posted by: Demophilus at May 8, 2007 01:53 PM


I think you overlooked the P-9s. Our little ol Air Corp are using them with good results.

Enjoy

Weapons Practice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFJpys6CY1Y

Formation Flying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkiB3n-AEOI

Posted by: Thomas at May 8, 2007 12:17 PM


And speaking of COIN aircraft, it looks
like the USMC is examining the possibility
of bringing back the OV-10 Bronco.

See:

http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=10607&printer=yes

Posted by: esmoore5 at May 8, 2007 11:59 AM


What about the A-67 Dragon COIN aircraft?:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/10/18/210033/picture-exclusive-a-67-dragon-counter-insurgency-aircraft-quietly-makes-first.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/10/24/210120/warbird-specialist-flies-a-67-dragon.html

This looks like the kind of situation it
was designed for.

Posted by: esmoore5 at May 8, 2007 11:05 AM


What about the Piper PA-48 "Enforcer", they still have the prototype at the Air Force Museum in Dayton. Or Rutan's plane that had the off-center jet engine.

Posted by: brad at May 8, 2007 10:54 AM


So, why not just go with attack helicopters?

Posted by: Siconik at May 8, 2007 10:51 AM


"Their MiGs are probably all fast movers. I say sell 'em some A-10s and any old Spookys/Spectres we have in storage!"


We need those A-10s and they cannot be produced anymore. More power to the revive the A-10 and to the massive amount of armchairs who agree.

Posted by: Galls at May 8, 2007 10:38 AM


The Super Tucano sounds perfect. Hence the T-6 will be chosen.

Posted by: Grandjester at May 8, 2007 09:54 AM


foreign.boy:

you want something that can run REALLY slow, is cheap to operate, can run off of S@#)(* quality dirt runways, carries serious WhupAss, has enough armoring to deal with light weapons/machine gun fire, and sophisticated modern avionics.

That Super Tucano sounds like a real winner: the avionics are top notch: all glass cockpit and night-vision-goggle compatible, 1500 lbs of Whup Ass under the wing including 2 50caliber machine guns and whatever rockets/small bombs you want, reasonably agile, reasonably tough, oxygen supply to reach a high altitude, air to air missiles, etc...

The only thing which suprises me is that Brazil has only made & sold <200 of the things. Frankly, if I was in charge of the Army in Iraq, I'd want a couple hundred of them, and just fly two over every convoy.

I guess because prop planes just aren't sexy like jets.

Posted by: Nicholas Weaver at May 8, 2007 09:22 AM


Their MiGs are probably all fast movers. I say sell 'em some A-10s and any old Spookys/Spectres we have in storage!

Posted by: Tartan69 at May 8, 2007 09:14 AM


What's wrong with Iraq's MIGs?

Posted by: Foreign.Boy at May 8, 2007 08:50 AM


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