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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Jet Noise Can Make You Rich!

Hornet in landing pattern.jpg

Market Watch is reporting the following: "The Justice Department and the U.S. Navy have reached a settlement agreement with approximately 3,400 property owners in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake, Va., regarding litigation relating to jet noise at a naval air base. Under the terms of the agreement, the participating plaintiffs agree to dismiss their claims and acknowledge that the settlement does not constitute an admission of liability by the United States.

"'We are pleased that the federal government and residents near the Naval Air Station Oceana and Naval Auxiliary Landing Field, Fentress have been able to reach an amicable resolution in this matter and avoid further litigation,' said Matthew J. McKeown, Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department's Environment and Natural Resources Division. 'This resolution signals an end to six years of litigation and provides positive results for the citizens as well as the government.'

"The class-action lawsuit stems from the relocation of 156 Navy F/A-18 C/D Hornet fighter jets from Cecil Field, Fla., to Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia Beach, Va., between December 1998 and July 1999. Plaintiffs own approximately 2,100 properties and alleged in a group of nine lawsuits filed between April 2001 and June 2005 that the introduction of the Hornets resulted in a substantial increase in overflights and jet noise. Under the settlement, the federal government will pay the plaintiffs an amount not to exceed $34.4 million."

matthew-lesko.jpg

As one who flew out of NAS Oceana for more than 15 years (and who also owned property under the landing pattern) all I can say is "are you kidding me?" The base has been in place since 1943. This is nothing but an elaborate drug deal, the result of home builders in collusion with the Virginia Beach city council wantonly ignoring the existence of a "master jet base" in their midst. This is the same sort of activity that landed NAS Oceana back on the BRAC list for the next go 'round -- a wreckless disregard for existing jet traffic (and known future requirements) in the face of money-making opportunities.

In the meantime pilot training has been affected by "noise abatement" rules that grow more restrictive with each rewrite until fighter pilots might as well be driving Boeing 777s. And now the tax payer takes it on the chin on the order of $34 million because of underhanded civic dealings and stupid homebuyers?

Ridiculous . . .

-- Ward

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Rob you just have to call people names. Well we're not stupid, we're not uninformed as you appear to be. My home is not "near a runway" never was near a runway, and never will be near a runway. The FA 18s encroached on the city, not the other way around. They are too big and too loud to be flying over a city THE SIZE OF VIRGINIA BEACH. You inconsiderate name calling "the navy can just do whatever it wants with no regard to the citizens of VB" blinded fools just don't get it. Don't bring up the lame arguement: "the base was there first". If that's germaine, then the arguement "i was here before the F18s is just as germaine. No one i've met in dozens of conversations over my 21 years of living near bow creek golf course ever stated they want the jets to leave. Just don't think we're so stupid as to believe they HAVE to fly over the neighborhoods to practice...BRAC said "...the future of naval aviation is not nas oceana..." not this retired chief petty officer turned hotel desk clerk. And Rob, speaking of stupid, it's the NAVY, not the AIR FORCE. Before you go calling people stupid, make sure you are not going to display your stupidity out there for all to see.

Posted by: Alan at June 5, 2008 04:30 PM


People who build homes near or next to runways of any kind should not complain. Those who didn't sell before the noise became intolerable have only themselves to blame.

I find it interesting that nobody complains when the ocean makes noise. The ocean is very good at making noise.

That it is a military runway does not matter.

Stop looking at the pretty pictures in the ads and start looking at the neighborhood before you buy a house. With 'pre-approval' to spend a couple hundred thousand dollars, people can still be so stupid. In no way should any government agency be made to pay for the lack of due diligence on the part of several thousand home owners.

Planes make noise. I am so sorry your dream of a house by the beach didn't work out the way you had hoped. Find another beach. The AF owns that one.

Posted by: Rob at April 16, 2008 01:26 PM


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Posted by: wowpowerleveling at April 15, 2008 01:38 AM


Now what Sandra? Now you're screwed. Because the Navy can do what it wants, they haven't had to answer to anyone over their encroachment. I bought my house it was so nice,,,planes on the horizon. Now the F-18s fly right over Bow Creek Golf Course, it's insane. We get them 14 hours a day sometimes, so low you can literally read tail numbers. And the exhaust is horrible, when they're flying their circles over the population (why do they do that anyway when all that water is just due east is beyond me) the exhaust drives you inside. I guess if we don't like it we're pro-terrorists, according to the many namecallers that write here. Actually I was here first, WEST OF THE BASE near Bow Creek Golf course. I will never give up my arguement that the Navy can and must revise the way they're TRAINING so that it doesn't fly over LARGE POPULATIONS areas of our cities. That's why BRAC targeted Oceana, for flying over the city. Or just bomb the golf course and get it over with. Oh that's right, they bombed the Moving Company instead....

Posted by: Alan at November 21, 2007 10:22 PM


Okay, what about us here in the Hickory area of Chesapeake? You know...the NO FLY ZONE. We bought and built out here for a reason...PEACE and QUIET! Now our NO FLY ZONE has been turned into a NO PEACE ZONE. We didn't buy and build near an Airforce Base and WE WERE HERE FIRST. Now what?

Posted by: Saundra Barlow at November 14, 2007 06:56 AM


WHAT PART OF THE LAW DOESN'T THESE NOISE MAKERS UNDERSTAND, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PATRIOTISM OR FREEDOM. READ THE LAWS BELOW. WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS SAME FIGHT HERE AT MACDILL AFB, TAMPA, FL.

In 1972 Congress declares that Americans be free of excessive noise.
*Noise Control Act 1972 – Congress declares that it is the policy of the United States to promote an environment for all Americans free from noise that jeopardizes their health or welfare.

*Both the Department of Defense’s Air Installation Compatible Use Zone (AICUZ) guidance and the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) Administration Noise Compatible Planning Toolkit identify residential use as incompatible in the 65Ldn Contour and higher.

*Fl Article 2- Section 7 (a) It shall be the policy of the state to conserve and protect it’s natural resources an scenic beauty. Adequate provision shall be made by law for the abatement of air and water pollution and of the excessive and unnecessary noise and for the conservation and protection of natural resources.

The Mayor and City Council have also taken an oath to protect and defend the constitution, and have a legal responsibility to protect its citizens from violations of noise or incompatibility regardless of what type of industry.. Violations of the law by any entity or individuals regarding Health Safety & Welfare of the Citizens of every City regardless of what company or industry are violations that need to be enforced. Greed does NOT Supersede Public Safety.

AFB Base Commanders have a responsibility by law to fulfill their NEPA responsibilities, and they have failed miserably to address these issues and are derelict in duty to protect residents that surround the Base, from Base activities and missions.

HUD- Noise is a major source of environmental pollution which represents a threat to the serenity and quality of life in population centers and that noise exposure is a cause of adverse physiological and psychological effects as well as economic losses. Scientific evidence on noise impacts clearly points to noise as not simply a nuisance but as an important health and welfare concern. 65dB LDN and above are incompatible for residential housing and human habitat.


Court Case References:
*United States v. Causby – Overflight Taking of Property Rights & Enjoyment interference.
*A.J. Hodges Indus., v. United States – Taking of Avigation Easement- Compensable
*Branning v. United States – Damage of Noise – Compensable
*Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Commission – Bundle of rights under 5th Amendment – Compensable.
*M&J; Coal Co. v. United States – Bundle of Rights – Compensable
*Batten v. United States – Diminution of property value- Compensable
*Federal Tort Claims Act(FTCA), 28 U.S.C.A. ss 1346(b) (1976), 2671-2680 (1994) Omissions in Public Documents
*Speir v. United States – Substantial interference – cell phone reception, TV, Enjoyment, Compensable under the 5th Amendment
*De-Tom Enterprises, Inc v. United States – Inverse Condemnation, Undue influence by Airforce over Zoning Board, Compensable by taking of property. Denying property owners due process, devaluing property values.
*Armstrong v. United States, 364 U.S. 40,49 (1960) 5th Amendment Compensable
*Griggs v. Allegheny County (1692) – 14th Amendment (369 U.S. 84, 82 S.Ct. 531)
*City of Jacksonville vs. Schumann, 167 So. 2d 95,98 (Fla. 1st DCA 1964). Regulatory Taking, Compensable.


Thank You for your attention in this important Safety Matter

Posted by: MICHAEL at November 1, 2007 02:23 PM


It is sad to say but I checked out my house well before buying but it didn’t help. I am always a smart and informed consumer but Virginia Beach is crazy to accept this level of noise. I have never live by a MILITARY AIRPORT but I have been near quite a few civilian ones. My home is in the quietest noise zone, at the time I bought the home the third zone. At this time I am writing, I can not talk to people in the room due to the level of noise. I could careless about how many jets fly over my home. The fly overs are not an issue. The real issue is the level of noise. The Navy has changed. I checked out my home completely before buying, the noise reports were well accepted. All this changed and now I can not use my yard nor enjoy my home. How American would I be if I let the government invade my home without standing up for my rights? The fight is sometimes closer to home than anyone wants to admit. I have spoken up and tried and hope the problem would resolve. However, I will not continue to accept the harassment from the Navy. I am pulling my business out of Virginia Beach and moving my company to a quieter area.

For all those people that say they LOVE Jet Noise, guess what...I have a house for sale...and I am asking premium price because of the daily air show included and as much noise and you would like to hear, on almost a daily basis.

My twelve year old has gone to bed; it is 9:15 pm. She came to say goodnight again because the noise is keeping her awake. I wish the problem could have been fixed.

I would tell you my name and address by I don’t want the next poor sap that buys this house to blame me. He or she can blame the real estate agent. I would suggest ear plugs if you like to garden.

One last point, I have not invested in improvements for my home property nor have I expanded my business. The house and commercial property are actually not as good of shape as when I purchased them. So to the City of Va Beach whom I feel is not acting in the best interest of the citizens, I am carrying my money west ward. I will build a much larger nicer home in the new area. I am also building a commercial operation to house my company and expansion. As you can guess, my employees with need to relocate as well.

Posted by: Mike at October 22, 2007 10:35 PM


There really just has to be a better way for them to train than over the city...there has to be and no amount of name calling will change my mind. Just look at a map...what good does flying over Bow Creek Golf Course 14 hours a day accomplish? It's the Navy's unwillingness to be proactive and progressive and recognize their ever-widening area of operation over the city is really encroachment as well...this isn't 1943 anymore, this is a city of almost 500,000 people. Geez start the name calling again...sorry but that's the fact. When the Navy continues their free pass and start conducting flight ops over Pembroke...LOL. Look out that's what got them on BRAC. Increasing their flight ops over half the population of this city is what will push BRAC to close this base in it's next go 'round...Funny but those who "complain" about the Jet Noise realize that the Navy has to figure this out or BRAC will shut them down. Those who blindly give the Navy a free-pass on their ever increasing noise pollution just resort to name calling.

Posted by: alan at October 11, 2007 06:01 PM


I would like to get my hands on the list of people who stole this money from the Navy. They ought to be publicly recognized.

Posted by: Scooter at October 6, 2007 08:14 AM


Now there you go Jeff calling people stupid. Really uncalled for to stoop to a level which I'm sure is beneath you...but what is "...near the air base..."? There is a growing number of people that think it's stupid to cling to the notion that since Oceana was here first they have a right to not adapt their training patterns? What's wrong with being progressive and proactive to be better neighbors about it? And please don't categorize me as some sort of liberal anti-military anti-everything...you haven't a clue about me, my home, family, history, anything. Far from stupid, I believe that in order to save Oceana, (which I want to see), the Navy needs to find a way to lessen their practice over the largest city in the state. Look at a map my friend, the F-18s have encroached more and more west of the base. Need proof? Just stand at Bow Creek Golf Course on most any weekday. What does reaching that far west accomplish? There are several alternatives and compromises that can and should be reached to alleviate the noise pollution brought to this city by the Super-Louds. This arguement isn't going away, and name calling isn't helping your side that just gives the Navy a free pass on their noise pollution.

Posted by: Alan at September 18, 2007 07:25 AM


This is sick. I grew up in Va. Beach and lived there until about 3 years ago. Yes the jets are loud. The A6's were bad and the F-18 Superhornets were worse. BUT I BOUGHT A HOUSE NEAR OCEANA. A JET BASE!!!!!! Common sense people. It amazes how stupid people actually are.

Posted by: Jeff at September 17, 2007 01:54 PM


Wow what hate filled rants. I bought my house in Virginia Beach in 1987, near Bow Creek Golf Course. The A-6s and F-14s were loud, but rarely strayed west of Lynnhaven Mall. Of course the Navy told us that the Super Hornets are louder (fact) but never did they mention that they would require more airspace, more operational time (daily touch and goes), and a basically a free pass just by posting a two paragraph sentance in the newspaper about "...24 hours operations...). What lousy neighbors the Super Hornets have turned out to be. But I'm not joining the class action lawsuits, my real estate assessment continues to increase (as my quality of life decreases). Irony at its best. All the pro-jet noise proponents apparently are against development in this great city. There's a reason Virginia Beach is the largest city in the state, people want to live here. Weather, water, open land, educational opportunities, recreational activities. The way I see it the greatest hinderance to the continued growth of Virginia Beach is noise pollution by the constant circling of the Super Louds. What's with the free pass the Navy gets from you? Take the training out to sea where it belongs (or get it over with and just bomb Bow Creek golf course). And why are you so hung up on the jobs Oceana provides? I moved here in 1986 and it's still the same 10.000 jobs at Oceana...it's a No Growth industry. That's fact. I've met pilots that fly (and have flown) out of Oceana and to a man (and woman) they told me that noise generated by their training is never a consideration. By the results of the Super Hornets encroaching on the city that appears to be fact also. So go ahead and start the name calling, liberal, pansy, whiner, uniformed home buyer, what ever makes you feel superior. Rest assured my 20 years active duty in the greatest Navy the world has ever seen made me tough enough to handle your hate filled rants. We just want the Navy to be better neighbors, take their training out to sea where it belongs. I should know, I had 14 years sea time that I'm very proud of and wouldn't trade for anything.

Posted by: Alan at September 13, 2007 08:19 PM


Sounds of freedom? The last i checked we were already free! It's the afterburners that sucks. Do that part over the ocean were we don't live. I have seen them fly by with almost no noise so i know thy can. Two day straight and am pretty over it already.

Posted by: JOHN at September 13, 2007 06:25 PM


Hey, scooby...what are you asking for it? I'd love to hear the sounds of freedom all day/night long. Doesn't bother me a bit....and I'm no dumbass.
And as for 'what else could you ask for'? How about a clear view of said freedom flying all day and night? You got that too?

Posted by: Kelly at September 13, 2007 09:13 AM


Close Oceana and move everything to Pensacola. The citizens of Pensacola would welcome the increase.

Posted by: Don Blish at September 6, 2007 07:59 PM


I'm selling my house in Oceana, Any of you dumb asses willing to buy? Hey.....it's the sound of freedom all day long and up your ass....What more could you ask for?

Posted by: scooby at September 5, 2007 08:44 PM


I am absolutely appalled at those who have filed a lawsuit over jet noise. I also live near the Fentress field and had my chance to file a suit but had enough decency NOT TO! What will my reward be for not suing? Most likely my taxes will be raised to cover the lawsuits of all you greedy people who have sued. And what's worse is some of you people grew up around jet noise. Is this ill-gotten gain gonna lessen the noise? NO! When the gov't gave so freely of our tax money to you greedy people, you SHOULD have had to use that money to pack up and move as far away from the jets as possible. Is that how you show your appreciation for freedom? I have 2 things to say to you greedy people. First of all, when it comes time to up our taxes, I think the gov't needs to raise the taxes of those who recieved the money and second, should they decide to bring the draft back, draft ONLY those greedy people who thought so little of their freedom - no matter your age or gender.
I'm appalled and ashamed of you greedy people!

Annie

Posted by: Annie at August 26, 2007 08:29 PM


First off, if you move to Virginia Beach, or anywhere else near a major military installation, check out the properties first. Talk to neighbors. Find out about your area. This bull crap about "too much jet noise" is ridiculous. I bet these people that are moaning and groaning are the first one's to say "God Bless America", "I support our troops", but god forbid they have to listen to what the troops and sailors have to hear everyday. Unlike our troops, atleast they have a home to go to, and a comfortable place to sleep without the fear of IED's in the middle of the night. I just returned home from an 8 month deployment on a Carrier and I lived with that noise and the constant shuddering of the ship each time the catapult slammed a bird off the ship. I don't feel sorry for you if you live by Oceana and can't stand the noise. If this is how you "support our troops", then maybe I should file a lawsuit on ignorant civilians that make our short time at home with our families unbearable because of the stupidity and the complaining on something that is giving you the freedom that you have everyday! Suck it up people, if you don't like it, move! We as military members have more to worry about than people complaining that it's "too loud". I LOVE JET NOISE and I BREATHE JET FUMES!

Posted by: Travis at August 14, 2007 01:57 AM


When I first heard about it, I thought the proposition of a lawsuit complaining of jet noise for property owners who, for the most part knowingly purchased their homes within just a few miles of a Master Jet base, sounded pretty ludicrous, especially for those of us who were stationed at NASO and purposely did so but, this is America and I signed up even though I really didn't have a complaint. I figured 'what the hell', it'll probably fizzle out and not amount to anything. Personally I felt the Federal Government should have broken it off in Va Beach's ass for allowing construction to encroach on the base as had been permitted. Retired, I have since sold my home and moved to another state. I had all but forgotten about this silly lawsuit until yesterday when I received a check. I'm not sure how I feel about the outcome; surprised mostly I guess.

Posted by: JayAre at July 22, 2007 04:14 PM


I imagine it must be like living under the flight path at JFK or BOS and griping about all the planes...."but I didn't know it would be so loud...". Yeah, right.
I'd sell my sould to live so close to an airport or military fighter base.
BTW, does nayone know where I can find a bumper sticker that reads "I love jet noise"? I live in Bermuda, and they can't be found here.

Posted by: Kelly at July 10, 2007 02:12 PM


Let Freedom Ring...just not at 4 am. lmao

Posted by: Dean at July 2, 2007 11:41 PM


I agree with Shane on this one, 3 and 4 am is ridiculous. I don't think a lawsuit is the answer but there needs to be an agreement. When you get a 5 month old down to sleep and top gun and his merry men go buzzing the tower, it is very frustrating. I love seeing and hearing those jets up until midnight. I am curious why they can't head out over the ocean after midnight and play? Dawn has a point, the contract reads less than or equal to 65 db, but it sure as hell doesn't say until 5am...We got the same story about Fentress "IT IS HARDLY USED" hahaha what a joke. I used to work on planes in the army and I know how pilots are. There are a few that like to fly low and throttle up.

A better sales contract and/or appraisal would help. They show the characteristics of a flood zone why not have a page for fly zone and 24hr db rating that is accurate?

It is truly sad how "We Americans" are the first to crucify each other when opinions differ. As someone once said "don't judge a person until you have walked in their shoes"

Posted by: Dean at July 2, 2007 11:39 PM


Interesting debate to say the least. I definitely do not agree with the lawsuit but do agree that jet noise at midnight, 1 am, 2 am, 3 am is quite rediculous. Yes it has been coined "the sound of freedom," however with respect to everyone there should be limits. Just as we need well trained pilots, we need well rested professionals in all fields. The reality is that when jets fly over anywhere in southeast virginia beach it is very loud, but as mentioned in numerous comments, it is bearable. However, when they fly, at times until 4 am, it is robbing people of their sleep. Before anyone gets offended remember, it takes individuals in all fields to make a society work and not everyone signed up to be in the military or chooses where they are born and raised. A great example is a friend of mine that is a critical care nurse that has had less than 2 hours of sleep a night for the past 2 nights due to late (until nearly 4 am) low flying jets. This same nurse may be caring for you or your loved one just as those pilots are caring for our freedom. You know what is really rediculous is that some of you think the answer is if you don't like it then move. Well, that is just a big cop-out, and a true lack of compassion. The eutopic answer would be to come to some kind of agreement as to how low and how late the jets should be able to fly. Allowing the citizens they protect to do their jobs which are just important to the circle.

Posted by: Shane at June 28, 2007 02:46 PM


Well, what would you expect from DefenseTech site???
Sound of freedom up your rooroo.

Morons..... STFU crusty turd

Posted by: scooby at June 20, 2007 08:51 PM


I am a Navy wife and a PROUD one at that who has lived in VA Beach for 7 years.The people who have complained about the "jet noise" should all have to relocate to a country where the people have no freedoms at all.The very jets they gripe about are the same jets that protect their right to complain!!!I have an "I love jet noise" cover around my license tag and quite a few t-shirts that say the same.I am proud of my husband's 25 yrs of service and look forward to doing the last 5 here in VA Beach-where you can hear the SOUNDS OF FREEDOM!!!The millions that the "whiners" are getting should be given to the spouses and children of those who have given all they have to protect our nation-they have more than earned it and deserve it for the sacrifices made.

Posted by: Lisa at June 10, 2007 02:53 PM


I cannot understand how our citizens of America can truly grieve over noise from the jets that protect our freedom. I have lived here in Va Beach for 20 plus years, in the Oceana area. I am proud to have these jets flying above and am angry that homeowners are making money off of our freedom fighters. Go and sell your home, someone else will be willing to buy it. You knew there was a jet base here. Go somewhere else please. My next statement to the homeowners, I pray that some day you never need these Jets like New York did.

Posted by: Margie at June 6, 2007 10:44 AM


RE: Dawn
You say that you had no time to find a house or check out the community but I find it hard to believe that there was no one at your previous command who had been stationed in this area and give you information on it if you had asked. Additionally when I transferred to this area I came from overseas (Yokosuka, Japan) as well, and I had hard copy orders in hand 6 months before my transfer date. I don't know about everyone else but the last time I checked the Navy (as well as other branches of service) gives you your orders well in advance of your actual transfer date. So for you to say that you "did not have time" to find out more about the community is incorrect, the correct statement is that you were not willing to take the time and use the resources available to you to find out about the community. You also could have contacted your prospective command and asked them to send you a welcome aboard package with information on the area. Your husband could have done any of these things as well.

Posted by: Catherine at May 31, 2007 12:05 PM


Those greedy, un-American lawyers that closed the sale of those properties, and real estate people that were just as greedy should be held accountable for this un-American act.

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 11:34 PM


Oh! I see there has been a response. A worthless response at that.

Give it up and turn in your citinship, you don't deserve to be an American.

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 11:28 PM


I detest greedy wimps, and traitors to the American tax paying people, and most of all to the idiots that claim they are Americans.

Reminds me of the coyotes in mexico and those in DC..

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 11:24 PM


I hope the real Americans that have sons, husbans, daughters and relatives protecting our Country understand the kind of people living in their area.

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 10:53 PM


Now you know some of those *^RE() that perpetuated this dishonarable act against America
are reading this...but have no guts to defend themselves.

I hope the surroundin Real Americans neighbors treat them as dirt, Americans my arsh....

Please respond. I pray that the monies they get torments them for the rest of their lives.

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 10:49 PM


As far as I am concerned they are a bunch %*()(_%#
greedy you know whats, they along with the real estate people that sold them the properties and the lawyers that perpetuated this act of treason against the tax paying American citizens should all be dealt accordingly.
Why do we have the "buyer beware" clause still on the books??????
The real estate mongers are still trying to get FT. Monroe to sell off. They are as bad a thieves as some of our politicians.

I pray the LORD GOD shows them their worthlessness.

I am a veteran of 32 years, and I say we have some people living in this country that ought to be run over to the Mexican side of the border and see how they like living in a country that don't give a damn about any of their citizens.

Posted by: Harry at May 29, 2007 10:42 PM


I agree with several others. Those people knew that those jets were there all along. It was no surprise. I'm sure they wouldn't be complaining about the noise if the Iraqies were here and our boys were fighting them in our country...I lived next to the Pocono Raceway... I didn't just wake up one day and it was there..I knew very well to expect noise..I LOVE JET NOISE..........I know they are there for us every time they fly by..THANK YOU to our flyboys...And all the other men and women protecting those greedy people..

Posted by: Rebecca L.Jordan at May 29, 2007 04:07 PM


All I have to say is that most of these residents moved in, knowing the airfield was there, and had to acknowledge the airfield and hazard during the purchase process. Why should they get one red cent. They knew what they were getting when they moved in.

Posted by: Mike at May 27, 2007 01:18 PM


I am in the navy, and have worked on the flight deck around the F-14, and I am currently in a F-18 command (VX-30 Bloodhounds). I have to say that the F-14 is a lot louder than the F-18. NAS Oceana had the F-14 for years and noise was never a problem. I think it is sick that these homeowners saw the chance to squeeze the government for a nickle, and taxpayers are the ones that end up footing the bill. I bet that the homeowners wouldn't complain about the noise if they where in the dirt, and counting on one of these jets for some close air support.

Posted by: James at May 25, 2007 10:41 AM


this is what has been going on for the longest. i was stationed at NAS Oceana for 2 1/2 years and the home owners around there think that if they get rid of the base, the city will be able to use it as an amusement park. they want disney, or whoever to come in and turn it to a tourest attraction. not caring that they are destroying history and tearing apart some families' lives in the process. it is all about the almighty dollar bill to these people.

Posted by: venus at May 25, 2007 10:10 AM


I have lived near airfields most of my 65 years and worked around Army and Naval aviation for many of those years. At age 4 a Navy fighter crashed one street over, at 17, we moved 100 yards off the end of an active runway where a F-102 ran out of go-juice and slid across the back yard which was followed years later by an A-10 Warthog banking severely to line up with the strip, losing a little too much airspeed and falling out of the sky. I love living and working near/at airports and have trouble sleeping without the aircraft noise. I firmly believe that there should be a federal law which bans lawsuits against either the military or commercial civil aviation by idiots who didn't do their homework before buying a house in close proximity to an active airfield. The principle of "caveat emptor" should prevail - let the buyer beware. Seems that I have read, for many years, about how noise abatement to placate the wienies is a greater danger in the event of an emergency than the noise. As for "Dawn"- all branches of the military fly something, if she and hubby are both lifers, they have had a sheltered existence if this is their first encounter!

Posted by: Len at May 24, 2007 10:39 AM


I'VE BEEN ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN AVIATION SINCE 14 YEARS OLD. I AM A FORMER NAVAL AVIATOR MARINE CORPS JET PILOT AND HAVE BEEN AN FAA INSTRUCTOR PILOT SINCE 1968, AND STILL ONE TODAY. THE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT AIRCRAFT NOISE ARE REALLY A BUNCH OF WALTER MITTY'S THAT WOULD LOVE TO DO WHAT THE "PILOTS AND AIRCREW" DO, BUT NEVER HAD THE WILL POWER NOR FOLLOW THROUGH TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOAL! THEY HAVE SETTELD INTO MEANINGLESS JOBS AND CAREERS BY DEFAULT AND CAN'T STAND THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE PUTTING THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE AS A MILITARY PILOT IS ALSO HAVING THE MOST FUN OF THEIR LIVES PROTECTING OUR LIBERTIES AND FREEDOMS. IF YOU DONT WANT THE JET NOISE DONT MOVE INTO A HOUSE NEAR THE AIRFIELD. NOT ONE SINGLE NAVAL AVIATOR EVER HAS INTENTIONALLY SCREWED UP A TRAFFIC PATTERN, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE LANDING IS PRATICE FOR A CARRIER APPORACH WHERE IT NEVER GETS ANY EASIER YOU JUST GET BETTER AT CARRIER LANDINGS OR YOU DIE! HOW MANY OF THOSE COMPLAINING HOME OWNERS WOULD TAKE THE OFFER OF A COMPLETE SORTIE IN THE JET OF THEIR CHOICE TO INCLUDE A CARRIER LANDING IF OFFERED? I'LL BET MORE WOULD VOTE FOR THE JET RIDE THEN THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SIGNATURES ON THE COMPLAINT FORMS!
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
P. ERIC AUGUST
USMC (ret.)

Posted by: p. eric august at May 24, 2007 10:28 AM


ok, dawn1 - this is sad - very sad. i'm really ashamed we have the same name at this moment. i HAVE lived outside of an airfield, in spring lake, nc - literally out the back door of the pope afb flight line. our house was directly in the LANDING flight line, to be exact. and since you had no clue what oceana was - i'll enlighten you - pope afb is right beside FT BRAGG - home of the Airborne. soooo, uhm, yeah - u think F18's generate alot of noise??? try the good ol'747's so close u can read the numbers on the side from ur front porch! my son wasn't scared of the planes, he loved watching them come in - only thing he loved more was us going to the park right beside the landing strip and watching them take off. and heck yes, the realtor lied to us too, told us that the noise was very low - but what u seem to fail to realize is that the realty society is into making money, not guarantee'ing that u find the perfect home in the perfect area for u. u also seem to fail to realize that u r ultimately to blame for the circumstances u have gotten urself into - u should have never tried to buy a house in 2 days without ur husband there to help choose (after all, that's a decision he has to live with now too, isn't it?), u should have never taken the word of the seller or the realtor as sole basis for how good the house location was, and u should never ever EVER blame someone else for ur own mistakes - a mistake made from blind haste and disregard for others - much like the mistake u r once again making in sueing the entire country for ur decision to live near an flight base. btw, i NEVER felt the need to sue the airforce for the 747's flying over my house in spring lake - i was proud to say i lived there and grateful to see our nations armed forces in action. heck, i actually miss the sound of the flyovers - as i NOW live in chesapeake near greenbriar mall. the sound that wakes me up is the constant traffic outside my condo complex - so if i were to take ur stand on things, should i sue the city of chesapeake for allowing this wonderful complex to be built in such a noisy area? uhm, no - i prefer to think of the fact that i only have to make 2 turns to get onto the highway when i leave out in the mornings. and, oh yeah, i took over 2 mths to find the best apt to rent for my family before signing a contract and putting money down - it didn't matter to me that it gave me a 45min commute to the job i moved here for, location, ammenities, cost, and pets over 50lbs allowed meant more to me than lessening the commute, and i didn't make one decision without getting my husband's opinion as well - i MADE time to research and investigate before signing - and i'm a busy working mom of 2 teenagers - so y didn't u?

Posted by: Dawn2 at May 24, 2007 03:29 AM


this is stupid. i grew up in chesepeake and live within two mile of oceana. anybody buying a home near the bases know to expect the noise or they are plain stupid.

Posted by: tom at May 19, 2007 06:28 PM


Man )' man, I can't beleive the gaul of some people. I'm so sick and tired of the winers in this country. That so called "jet noise" is the sound of freedom and I for one am glad that there are people willing to bust thir butts to go to work each and every day and do what most of us wouldn't even be able to, let alone want to! Also. these selfish people that complain about the noise.......................they were the ones that bought a flippin' house next to one of the oldes naval bases in the country.......DUH!!
I think the gov't should tell them to stuff it!

Posted by: T.B. at May 19, 2007 08:25 AM


As a CH-47 Chinook pilot for a while now I have noticed that there is always someone willing to complain about noise no matter how high you fly. I noticed that ignorant "Dawn" complained that the training pilots did not follow the pattern and flew to low. Well, I am not aware of what kind of training that they do there but I remember when I trained I was not always exactly on the pattern. As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet that the glorious, does nothing wrong, innocent little lamb "Dawn" has driven off the road, hit a curb, crossed the median line with out intending to and all she had to do was control the left and right turns of her poor little steering wheel to keep it between the lines. She didn't even have to worry about altitude, or angle of approach or stall speed or any of the myriad of other things that go along with the successful operation of such a glorious piece of equipment. How can, as many others have already said, sue the government or any other airfield because it is noisy. If it is really that noisy why did "Dawn" stay there for 16 years? did she think that one day the jets would get mufflers installed, did she think that they would stop flying because she screwed up when she bought the house. I know I was in a rush one time when I bought the wrong size underwear and pinched something but I didn't sue the store for undue comfort and canceled BarBQ's and my wifes sore eardrums from me screaming. So what is it that they are really suing for. To get them to stop flying over their house, or to get back at the aviators who "get a kick out of buzzing the roof tops" or stick it to the people with the bumper stickers supporting the men and women that have and do support this nation by putting their lives on the line and live with lots of discomfort and missed BarBQ's and painful eardrums and sleepless nights and seeing their children scared and being scared themselves. Can each soldier, sailor, airman, and marine sue the government and the U.S. public for the decision that they made to serve this country that is sometimes done on a short and uneducated decision. I think not and the arrogance and defiance that "Dawn" wrote in her statements are, to me, a testament as to the quality of person she and the rest of them probably are.

Posted by: Eric at May 19, 2007 02:02 AM


I believe those people should be deported out of our country.I was stationed at NAS Oceana in 1964 in VF-33 and on the USS America.Those jets and pilots keep our freedom here in america.How can it be that a bunch of idiots can sue our government for anything that helps to keep this country free.Sent them to Russia.

Posted by: Larry at May 18, 2007 11:47 PM


Re: Dawn, The Lady Who Doth Complain Too Much...

I, my dear Messmate, am not a Hampton Roads Lemming. Nor am I such a Luddite or ignoramus as to expect quietude in the vicinity of the OLF.

After 24 years before the mast and more hours listening to cock-and-bull stories from Sailors who've made ill-advised, myopic decisions, I must say that I that the odor of BS permeates your story.

With all due respect, the arguments of operational requirements, only two days to apply for a mortgage and buy a house, etc., etc., etc. can always be traced back to a failure to plan. Remember the old saw: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance?

Caveat emptor, Shipmate. You bought a pig in a poke, but have wallowed in your own self-pity for 16 years. Honestly, who's the lemming? Those of us who scoff at you for your ignorance or you who leapt off the cliff following the shallow advice of a realtor?

Between you and your beloved you have a half-century of naval experience. Have you not fathomed the purpose for Fentress? Then let me enlighten: It is to train our brave little nuggets to land aboard a carrier. If they were all flawless automatons they'd ALWAYS be in the ACIUZ. Unfortunately for you, they're young, human, and prone to error.

Lastly, I'm sure you are gravely mistaken regarding your assessment of the potential loss of NAS Oceana to your property values. Were Oceana to swallow the anchor Virginia Beach and Chesapeake would find themselves once again the proud proprietors of only seasonal tourism, bedroom communities, and soybean fields. I'm not going to do your homework for you. You do the math. How many Sailors are stationed there? How many GS and contracted employees? How many suppliers? How many homes and apartments? What is the total of government salaries paid every month to those stationed or employed there?

In any case, the die is cast and nothing any of us might write here has any chance of changing your belief that you're the victim. However, perhaps those younger and still impressionable might take some learning from our exchange. I caution that the "culture of complaint" and the lawyers' advocacy of perpetual victimhood is an ever narrowing channel that leads only to shoaling waters.

Posted by: Crusty Old Chief at May 18, 2007 10:01 PM


We live one road away from an airfield. We had a porch built facing the runways. We enjoy sitting out at night watching the air craft approaching and taking off. This is us. We enjoy it and knew what we would be getting into. The thing I can not understand is how any one could purchase a house near any airport either military or civilian and not understand DA, maybe the big planes will make a nose when they take off and land.

Posted by: Jimmy O at May 18, 2007 09:08 PM


This is a rebuttal for Dawn, I live in San Diego in military housing less than a 1/2 mile from the International airport and here planes taking off from 5am to 11pm. It shakes the windows and gets annoying while trying to watch TV but we chose to live here since less than 5% of Californians can afford to buy a house out here. You being a prior active duty member should have known that any airport is going to produce noise especially a military airport and saying you didn't know there was a military airport nearby just shows your ignorance to your surrounding neighborhood. You should be ashamed at being part of a lawsuit against the US Gov't after having served in the military.

Posted by: Jeff at May 18, 2007 06:26 PM


OK, Fentress was established in 1940?.... most of the houses were there before 1940 (Dawn)?
What 2 days were there no flights from Oceana... none that I can ever remember unless it was a safety standown (Dawn)?
Who has their facts straight?

Posted by: Ohsix1 at May 18, 2007 06:12 PM


OK. You didn't know when you moved in. So when you can move out. Me I love to live by military airports. It makes me feel good to know they're there.

Posted by: Sgt.K Vietnam at May 18, 2007 05:06 PM


Dawn,

Who is playing into whose hands? I might have some small sympathy for you but you are doubly naive to: A - Buy a house near an airbase in ignorance and B - Expect anyone here to be in the least bit sympathetic to your plight.

I am orginally from the West Coast (up the 405 from El Toro) and I effing had heard of Oceana.

Posted by: Grandjester at May 18, 2007 04:26 PM


This is for all you folks that were compelled to respond; particularly crusty...I knew you'd fall right into the trap. Like all the other Hampton Roads lemmings, you immediately assume that we knew all about the area, that we knew all about the base, that we would understand the proximity of this unknow base to where we were looking, that we had time to talk to the neighbors, had time to explore, and that we would just know that planes were flying over our head. Well we were moving to Hampton Roads from overseas. We had never been to Hampton Roads and had never even heard of Oceana. (Believe me, outside of Hampton Roads, nobody knows about or cares about Oceana). It was our first house and we didn't know what questions to ask and I had exactly two days to find a house and apply for a mortgage, all without my husband because we were both operational at the time and only one of us could get leave. We did call family service and they had no info to provide. Everyone assumes that we are at fault for the situation we're in. Well, when you're on active duty, have a limited amount of money and just spent what you have to buy a house, in what appeared to be a safe, quiet community, have to check in, and realize you made a big mistake, it's hard to figure out the next move. For over 16 years now we've (our community) been doing everything in our power to work with the Navy to get the aviators to fly the correct pattern and altitude that is on the ACUIZ maps. They have disregarded every letter, phone call, city council meeting, newspaper editorial, news article, and plea from the public. The Oceana CO and ones before him claim to be a friends of the community yet he/them make no effort to rein these rogue aviators in. On the days when they comply with pattern and altitude integrity, the noise is somwhat tolerable. But, those occasions are few and far between. I joined the lawsuit not for the money but to send a message to the government that we're sick and tired. Oh by the way, most of the houses in my area were there long before Fentress. So now who's invading whos backyard? Before you cast your misguided judgement, get the facts straight. Homeowners liveing near an international airport, are given government funding to fit their homes with sound dampening improvements. What has the Navy given Hampton Roads homeowners besides a hard time. BRAC would be the best thing to happen to VA Beach. Property values will not decrease. Oceana is prime real estate. If the City Council had any business sense they would market that land as a business/industrial park and generate mega tax dollars. Way more than they now. Oh by the way the $ are in excess of 30K based on loss of property value. I'll use the money to insulate; this is my home where my childre were born and raised, I like my neighbors, and don't want to move again. I'll always love the Navy but I don't have to lover the jets.
Me - 30 year veteran
Husband - 20 year verteran
We paid our dues!

Posted by: Dawn at May 18, 2007 03:01 PM


This is for Dawn, the idiot who says that she is happy about this verdict. She should have sued her Realtor and not the government! She bought a house on short final to a military base and didn't think that would be noisy? Dawn does not complain about the good deal she got on this house, does she! She really shouldn't breed! People like her will cause this last super power to implode. People seem to forget that freedom does not come free! I hope you do ram my minivan when you see my bumper sticker Dawn and you had better have good insurance! Wake up America!

Posted by: Reno at May 18, 2007 02:07 PM


Some are too obtuse to recognize the Sound Of
"Freedom." They also buy good "deals" in the noise zones....Listening to the engines that pump the local economy. Oh well, that sound continues to give them the freedom to complain...
It's a shame we have to pay them too!

Posted by: Oldbob, retired noise maker at May 18, 2007 01:16 PM


If the government can shell out this money for private property owners, why can't they pay for bi-lateral ear tinnitus to Vietnam vets. Many of us worked day in and day out, especially during campaigns, on the flight line with poor or non existent ear protectors. Yet the Supreme Court denied bilateral tinnutus due to worded incorrect bill and the legislature won't re-write it. Write to you Congressman for "bilateral hearing tinnutus" requireing 2 10% disability rating (one for each ear)! How many ears does your Congress have?

Ray (inactive Vietnam Marine Veteran)

Posted by: Ramon Luna at May 18, 2007 01:07 PM


Re: Dawn's Complaint

Let me see if I understand what you written here:

You were active duty military, presumably stationed somewhere in Hampton Roads.

You presumably were in Hampton Roads long enough to buy a house.

You didn't bother to check out a map, go to the NAS Oceana website, ask anyone in the neighborhood about the airfield, or check with the housing office or family service center.

You presumably never even spend enough time in the neighborhood to have heard even ONE jet using the OLF.

You did, however, trust both your realtor (who's in it for the money) and the seller (ditto).

When you realized that you'd been bent over sternsheet you wisely called a lawyer. BUT, your crocodilian JD knew that there'd be less money for HIM if you sued the realtor and former owner. So, being a patriotic little nattering naybob, who believes all the Doctor Spock crap fed to you during your formative years, chose the easy route your belly-crawling lawyer recommended: SUE THE GOVERNMENT!

The government is a softest of soft targets when it comes to class action suits. Settle out of court, get the courts to bless a ream of soiled rump ribbon declaring its innocence, and pay off the pirates, charlatans, nitwits, and ambulance chasers in the vain hope that they'll just somehow go away. (heh.)

Now, Shipmate, what's next? Are you going to take the $2,500 you got from Uncle Sugar and move the hell away from there? Or will you use it as a retainer for a lawyer to sue the realtor and the former homeowner? My guess is that you'll not do a blessed thing... other than spend the loot as fast as you can.

You know, BRAC should shut the whole damned thing down and turn it over to whoever wants it. Pull the hell out of VABeach and out of the state. Then you can complain about how your property value is plummeting in blissful silence.

Cheers!

Posted by: Crusty Old Chief at May 18, 2007 10:23 AM


Everytime I see a I love jet noise bumper sticker on a car I want ram right into it's back end. All you jet loving, noise intoxicated, boneheads are pure idiots. You claim homebuyer should have know about the noise. Well this is just a demonstration of how narcissitic Virginians can be. Not everyone is familiare with the miliatary or aware of the type of noise jets can make. My unscrupulous realtor and the former home owner lied when I asked about that "little air field" down the road "fentress" They said it was hardly ever used. The night we closed was our intro to the deafening roar of jets flying low and fast directly over our house. The lawyers said there was nothing we could do, except move out, sue the owner and realtor. Of course that would mean temporary quarters until all law suits are settled. We learned to live with the noise. Cancelled BarBQ's, Ear Pain while bringing groceries in, watching my 3 year old son run crying in fear when a jet suddenly roared over our house and scared the daylights out of him. Over the years the noise got worse to the point that the new F18's rattle our windows. We learned that the nuggets don't stay on pattern and fly well below the authorized altitude and that's why the noise is so bad. We learned that calls to the base ops complaint line does nothing. And the best part, I was active duty and had an opportunity to work with the pilots out of Oceana. They didn't know about my noise problem. I learned that it's big joke for them to fly low over the houses. They get a kick out of buzzing the rooftops. Isn't that special! I sued the government and am glad I won. I want compensation for the rude behavior I've had to endure from the LSO's at Fentress, the aviators flying over my house, the ops folks manning the complaint line and the idots who use those bumper stickers. Do not judge me until you've spent a night in my house during flight ops at Fentress. I'll bet you change your tune.

Posted by: Dawn at May 18, 2007 09:54 AM


The government should make some arrangements to pay the service men in the area in some odd currency (like $2 bills) and let the economy see how many of those show up in the local area. They would be surprised how much money the military contributes to their local economy. After that maybe they could stand a little noise.

Posted by: Jim Boyd at May 18, 2007 09:26 AM


I live next to an Air Force base and miss the old F-4 Phantom fighters. Yes they made noise but they were cool! The F-16s that replaced them were ok but it wasn't until the B1-B bombers came that we had really cool planes again but alas, those are gone again now.

Someone in the government should be fired for failing to fight this to the bitter end. In fact it makes me wonder if they didn't pay off the decision maker.

Posted by: Miss the noise at May 18, 2007 08:34 AM


When individuals are fully aware of aircraft noises when locating in an area near a military facility, then they should have no recourse to complain and particularly file lawsuits, or is this just an easy "get rich quick" scheme. Developers of these areas should have to bear the expense of any settlements made. Are they not aware also that in the end they're also penalized by increased taxes or is just quick money the goal. Frankly, I feel pride when even hearing a military jet -- isn't it the "sound of freedom."

I'm the wife of a military retiree.

Posted by: Reva at May 18, 2007 08:32 AM



Virginia Beach is now best known as a Sanctuary City for Criminal Aliens.
I have noticed a pattern of the locals around military bases that have always been hostile to service members, when the local economy clearly depends on the base.
I wish we had a legal system that would recognize nuisance lawsuits with a looser pays penalty. In the end “JET NOISE IS THE SOUND OF FREEDOM”

Posted by: Scot at May 18, 2007 08:14 AM


We had a similar problem wher I live in the early 1970's. The Government played smart then with complaining home owners. The approach from the north was directly over a housing addition and owners complained about noise and safety issues constantly. To cure the problem the base worked with local governments, condemned all of the housing in the flight zone area, bought all of the homes then bulldozed the area. Then people complained about having to move out of their homes so the government allowed them to buy and move the houses out of the affected area. If Virginia doesn't like the Sounds of Freedom the Navy is more than welcome to move to Oklahoma. We already have the Navy E6 wing here.

Posted by: Larry at May 18, 2007 07:57 AM


What a crock!

"Under the settlement, the federal government will pay the plaintiffs an amount not to exceed $34.4 million."

The federal government has NO money! Every penny of this settlement will be paid by the taxpayers!

These people sued themselves and the rest of us. The federal government (whoever that was) settled on our behalf.

Posted by: James Long at May 18, 2007 07:56 AM


The Army used to have a method for problems like this. IF a city near a base started to complain about the Base, The Army would pay every soldier and civilian in nothing but $2 bills (This was before the reissuance of them into the main stream) The city in question would then see just how much thier lives were affected by the base and that would fix the problem.

BTW IF you can't stand loud noises DON'T MOVE NEAR AN AIRPORT!

Gray Army Airfield (Ft Lewis, Wa) once had a sign at a major intersection at the edge of the field that stated "Pardon Our Noise, Its the Sound of Freedom"

Posted by: Richard J Reed at May 18, 2007 06:55 AM


Now this is a dilema. I would normally have said that the Government should not have caved in and kept this thing in the court systems until the cows came back home.

Caving into this type of litigation provides others with the encouragement to attempt similar actions, which could easily spin out of control - not a good thing.

The Government knows this as well and believe it or not, they do have reasonably competent attornies handling this type of issue. The Government, no doubt felt that there was reasonably good chance of losing this litigation once it got to court, or they simply would NOT have settled - they did hang on for six years before settling this case.

A loss in Federal court would have done much MORE damage than settling this thing of $34M - not a lot of money in teh grand scheme of thing as Demophilus pointed out. However a loss would have set legal presidence, which could and probably would come back to bite us again and again.

While I disagree with the tenets of the lawsuit, I have to believe that there was, at least, some rational and a legal basis for it otherwise it would not have made it this far.

First off, suing the Federal Government is NOT something that can be done willy-nilly. There is a concept of sovereign immunity, which basically stipulates that you need to ask the Government if you can sue them, before you can even bring about the litigation... This coupled with the fact that the Government indicates, to me at least, that in this this particular case, there must have been some reasonable justification for the suit and the subsequent settlement.

Bottomline - I also hate it, can never condone it and still personally swell up anytime I hear the "Sounds of Freedom roaring in from above", but in this case; probably probably justified.

Posted by: Frenchie Thuotte at May 18, 2007 06:03 AM


What's next paying the Iraqi's every time we make jet noise shooting Taliban? Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the Afgans, Bosnians, and millions of other people that we have helped attain freedom by flying noisy jets and attacking their oppressors.

Posted by: Jeff at May 18, 2007 05:53 AM


These people move into a jet noise base area and sue because of noise? What a scam. How many of them make a good living because of the presence of the base? They should be sued for obstructing the mission capability of the US military acft. Is Langley AFB next. Sounds like a great welfare scam for minorities. Only in the land of the great liberal thieves and dumbocrats

Posted by: afret91 at May 18, 2007 03:59 AM


I was stationed in Oceana during 1971-1974. I worked on the F-4 and stayed on the base. The noise would wake me for the first couple weeks there, but after that, you just learn to ignore it. There was a noise abatement then on Sundays while people were in church. I don't believe civilians should get anything. If they don't like the noise, then move away. I believe the military belongs there more than anyone else. If anything, the civilians should be paying the government for the free air show that they get every day :)

Posted by: Paul Crissman at May 18, 2007 03:02 AM


I have done several "summer" training exercises @ Ft. Story with the transportation command and the excercises have invited responses from several local home owners regarding the noise. At that time the local Mayor responded with, "That's the sound of freedom" I wish the US could charge those complainers at "freedom" tax.

Posted by: Michael Unger at May 18, 2007 02:25 AM


I lived on base at NAS Oceana from 1973-1976, and 1978-1980, at base housing (across from the corn field)i knew the sound of the f-4's very well, I worked on them, they had a lot bigger (and louder)engines than the f-18 every thought of having, after the first couple months the noise becomes whae is concidered white noise, you learn to tune it out; I had a son born there and it never kept him from sleeping all night. the base was there long before these ahole's were even born, they knew before the moved there what was going on; so why were they allowed to sue when they knew what they were getting into. What happened to common sense (hey you money grabber's at my expense) ever heard the old adage if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen well move you ass away from there.

Posted by: gary hale at May 18, 2007 01:23 AM


Seen the same argument - almost the same words - around almost every air field I've worked at. All over the country, and in many other countries. "Hey, here's a nice big open field. Let's build a school/mall/housing project here." People come in, buy, then find out the planes flying over or nearby are an annoyance and suddenly the airfield has to cough up big bucks and/or close down operations.

Posted by: Bush at May 18, 2007 12:24 AM


I used to live by Bermerton, WA Navy base when I was in washington. There is a channel leading into that base that it just big enough to get a carrier in. Anyway all the people in Port Orchard that lived on the water complained all the time about how the ferry and the navy was washing away there beach. Apparently the Ferry was started in the 1800s but they got their money (from the navy and the ferry system) and made the new fast ferry slow down (which added 30 min to my commute).

It should always come down to who was there first. When it comes to Norfolk, if you owned that house in say 1945 or before when you get money for your house so you can move and maybe a little extra. Everyone else can STFU.

Posted by: The Cenobyte at May 17, 2007 07:41 PM


I used to live by Bermerton, WA Navy base when I was in washington. There is a channel leading into that base that it just big enough to get a carrier in. Anyway all the people in Port Orchard that lived on the water complained all the time about how the ferry and the navy was washing away there beach. Apparently the Ferry was started in the 1800s but they got their money (from the navy and the ferry system) and made the new fast ferry slow down (which added 30 min to my commute).

It should always come down to who was there first. If you owned that house in 1945 or before when you get money for your house so you can move and maybe a little extra. Everyone else can STFU.

Posted by: The Cenobyte at May 17, 2007 07:40 PM


From 1964 to 1972 we lived just a corn field from the Oceana Navel Air Station, right under the flight path. Those big F-4 Phantom jets fly over was really some thing, Our young sons use to wave at the pilots, and if you happened to be on the phone when one went over you just had to wait until it was past. We never ever thought of complaining. We were glad that they were flying and training. The base was there long before the homes. The corn field that was there then is most likely a houseing area now. to bad our gov. don't fight back.

Posted by: Ted George at May 17, 2007 04:58 PM


"You want a real SHOCKA? Ask the Gov't how many of the litigants (pirates!) are retired NAVAL AVIATORS. So what do we call this: blue on blue, filicide, or simple arrogance?"

Given the communities in that area, I'm guessing that a goodly portion (note -- I'm not saying "all") of the "victimized" home-owners are the kind of people who rant and rail about gummint handouts and welfare queens and sleazy trial lawyers and so forth. But since they no doubt consider themselves "real" Americans, they're entitled, I guess....

Posted by: sglover at May 17, 2007 10:04 AM


You want a real SHOCKA? Ask the Gov't how many of the litigants (pirates!) are retired NAVAL AVIATORS. So what do we call this: blue on blue, filicide, or simple arrogance?

The US Gov't ought to strike back and just condemn their damned houses. "Here's 10 cents on the dollar; try not to build at the end of a runway next time."

Posted by: Crusty Old Chief at May 17, 2007 09:35 AM


I moved from the Norfolk/VA Beach area earlier this year. I loved the sound of freedom booming overhead every few minutes, but then I have had a life long love affair with the military, especially jets.

No matter where you are in the Ocean View, Chix Beach, VA Beach, Sandbridge, Chesapeake area, you are going to hear jets. In Ocean View, you get the wonderful sounds of C-5's, C-17's, 747's and the never ending parade of E-2 and C-2's coming into NAS Norfolk. In all other areas its the fast movers from Oceana. No matter where you go, the sounds of freedom are all around. What's next, the entire population of the Norfolk/VA Beach area suing for some cash?

When I sold my house in Norfolk, I had to provide certification as to the decibel level of overflight noise in my neighborhood. Every single person buying a property in the area has been alerted to the noise level they could expect.

The Government should be countersuing each individual for bringing a frivolous lawsuit to court.

Posted by: ExSWO at May 17, 2007 07:17 AM


Just beam up noise to cancel the noise from the engine, and build blocks around the air strip to reflect the noise, and these idiots would have no reason to insult again.

Posted by: pedestrian at May 16, 2007 10:45 PM


Okay regarldess of the politics involving the iraq war or what my position on the war is, this is the most ridulous lawsuit I've ever heard. You mean to tell me theres people out there willing to sue our military, the men and women who protect our country because they complain about the noise. Well guess what too bad, these people should have known that if your going to buy a house near an air base, airport or anything that generates noise its common sense to go buy a house somewhere else. Sounds like a bunch of middle aged complaining loosers trying to make a free buck off the service that protects us. And even more of an outrage because of all the tax payers money to be paid to these complainers. I'm sorry but I don't pay taxes for some stupid complainers to get a bigger share than what I get in april because they're unhappy about noise. People well sue over anything even the very service that protects them from a foreign attack.

Posted by: Sean at May 16, 2007 07:52 PM


Screw the NIMBYs, congress needs to pass legislation banning these lawsuits and giving the military free reign to operate their bases however necessary to best serve the national defense.

Many people who love their country will be happy to live near military bases and hear the best aircraft and pilots in the world flying overhead training to fight on the other side of the world to protect American interests. Since when should a handful, a HANDFUL of affluent homeowners get priority over the security of the United States?

By the way, DC Loser, South Orange County republicans didnt want MCAS closed, quite the opposite. They were happy to have the USMC there, they just fought a conversion to a commercial airport after the base was closed. I personally supported the airport and saw them as selfish NIMBYs but it was really a non-military issue at that point, just a matter of a lot of rich folk in quiet suburban neighborhoods fighting the introduction of a lot of traffic and commercial aircraft noise.

Posted by: kaltes at May 16, 2007 03:31 PM


Great story on defense. Not so sure on "tech", but I'll give ya this: y'all sure know how to get teeth grinding.

Expect more of this on both the military and civilian fronts. Fact of the matter is, real estate interests have a lot of pull in local politics. That means building permits are granted, even where they shouldn't be (or, in this case, shouldn't have been).

There are a lot better places to build homes than under the approach/departure paths of jet-capable airports. Apart from crash risk, there's pollution and noise to consider. You've got to wonder what local burghers are thinking, when they zone a runway area for residential.

Since aviation (and national defense) are Federal in nature, Congress could have passed a law decades ago preventing such construction. That horse has left the barn. In some cases, the FAA (and on occasion, DoD, or the War Department before it) anticipated the problem by putting easement restrictions into airport development grants, or the release of Federal properties to local control. There are airport areas all around the country where you can't build homes, or much else, which is as it should be.

In too many other areas, there wasn't as much foresight. So the people who move there buy low (on account of the noise), and want to sell high. It may not be truth or justice, but it's the American way.

Not to justify this kind of nonsense, but at $34M for 3,400 homes, you're talking about $10K per household, which isn't much for that part of the country. It's barely enough for some of these environmentalist patriots to put a down payment on a new SUV.

If it still seems an outrage, consider this: the settlement is probably a charge against the properties affected, which means the USG is buying the easement it should have had all along. If that still seems outrageous, consider that it's theoretically enforceable from now on. If the settlement's properly documented, no subsequent owner of these properties can sue on the same grounds.

Discounted over the continued useful life and operation of the base, $34M is not a lot. That kind of money is better spent on training and readiness, rather than gold plated turkeys.

I'm as pissed as any of you about this, but I think the Republic will survive.

Posted by: Demophilus at May 16, 2007 01:35 PM


This kind of crap happens everywhere and it's not just jets. Northwest of Las Vegas, there's been a pig farm and a shooting range (not co-located :) for a long time. In the past 10 years or so, houses were built right up next to the farm and the range and then people have the nerve to complain about the smell and the noise. Well, duh! WTF did you expect?

Posted by: bespoke at May 16, 2007 01:09 PM


You've got to be kidding...this is a crock...Haveing lived and flown out of Oceana for many years I,ve been able to see this develope since the early 70s' Not one person who bought property didn't know about the "sounds of freedom" Time to close the base and move...we don't need this kint of "support"

Posted by: John Pieno at May 16, 2007 12:35 PM


You've got to be kidding...this is a crock...Haveing lived and flown out of Oceana for many years I,ve been able to see this develope since the early 70s' Not one person who bought property didn't know about the "sounds of freedom" Time to close the base and move...we don't need this kint of "support"

Posted by: John Pieno at May 16, 2007 12:34 PM


These people knew full and well there was a very active jet fighter base there when they moved in. It wasn't exactly a surprise that the planes were noisy. If they thought the F-18s were noisy, they should've been around when F-4s flew there. This was exactly what happened with Tustin and El Toro MCAS when the Southern Orange County Republican NIMBYs got their way and had both of them closed. Now I see that the NIMBYs in La Jolla has put the kibosh on flights out of Miramar too. What's this world coming to?

Posted by: DC Loser at May 16, 2007 11:07 AM


I don't know about you but I would pay extra to live there. You get 2 bonuses. 1 the added security for having the jets in your back yard and 2 free air show!
I know I going running outside when I hear a military jet or Huey to try and catch a glimpse.

Posted by: Mark at May 16, 2007 10:28 AM


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