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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Snake Eaters for Life?

Force-Recon-web.jpg

MarSoc Update:

Yesterday Defense Tech reported a little-noticed line in Vice Adm. Eric Olson’s written testimony regarding the career path for Marines in special operations forces.

DT readers will remember that one of the main selling points – particularly for opponents of the new MarSoc force within the Corps – with the service’s entry into the spec ops world was that once Marines finish with a stint in the snake eater world, they’d return to the “regular” Corps with new knowledge, tactics and specialized skills that could help make mainstream grunts better.

But Olson’s answer to lawmakers that he wants a “spec ops for life” career path for Marines – like the other services – flies in the face of that logic.

MarSoc officials have backed away from that earlier argument, saying instead that, although Marines assigned to MarSoc may serve in the command for longer than the usual three-year assignment because of the training investment, the service wants to make sure Marines who do a stint there are competitive for promotion; meaning they still need to do “Marine” things to advance in the Marines.

Here’s a statement from MarSoc spokesman, Maj. Cliff Gilmore:

MARSOC is working with Marine Corps Manpower to determine the best model for personnel assignment and career paths within MARSOC and the SOF community. Our intent is to balance three factors: First, we must ensure we build and maintain our SOF capabilities; Second, we must ensure a good return on time and money invested to train SOF personnel; Third, we must ensure our Marines remain competitive for promotion within the Corps.

Because it was given such short shrift in Olson’s testimony, maybe the issue won’t come to any kind of conflict. But there is a lingering doubt within the “legacy” SOF that the Corps special operators are “immature” and inexperienced. One thing the old SOF has been proud of is the maturity and experience of its personnel, the kind of expertise that comes only from spending an entire career in the community.

Will the Corps be willing to give up its best leathernecks forever? I’ll bet that will be a tough sell.

-- Christian

Comments

Hey, these Marsoc operators aren't some kids who signed up to be Spec op's. They are the most seasoned men to come out of Force Recon.
There is not a fast path to Marsoc. You have to be in Force Recon for at least two years before you are eligible to try out for Marsoc, and it ain't that easy to get into Recon in the first place. All of these men have been in Recon and then gone through selection for Marsoc. which almost all of them have been in for more than three years before thay start operating for Marsoc. Calling them immature is as childish of the Army as it was for them to kick Marsoc out of A-stan on false charges just to preserve there coveted status as "special".

Posted by: Lane Ezell at August 28, 2008 12:44 PM


All the other services is angry because they can not be a Marines so they do want the Marines to have anything that would make them more better than what they are now. I know false pride when I see it-go Marines get all you can get. What you can not get then steal it!

Posted by: matt hood at April 18, 2008 01:12 PM


It seems to me what the Marine Corps wants to do with their "special forces " Marines sounds right and looks good. But and this is a big but , after 3 years in this capacity, a real SOF operator is just finishing their training! to send them back to the Fleet would be a waste of time and training!
I was in the Corps for 6 years, I can understand the Corps reluctance to lose quality warriors, but what is the tradeoff in the long run? It sounds to me like their SOF forces will always be filled with young Marines always in a state of training.Certainly this will lead to a "poor" quality sof force.
The Marine Corps needs to understand that these Marines are going to be an elite force within an elite force wether the Corps accepts this is something else all together. { note: if they were not an elite force within an elite force , then all Marines should be able to make it thru this extensive training, this is something I rather doubt though,}.

Posted by: Chris Morgan at June 20, 2007 08:50 AM


Anyway....

It's a long-standing tenet of SOCOM's that SOF cannot be mass-produced and take years to reach maturity. Despite VADM Olson's assurance that MarSOC is developing ahead of schedule, a rotation plan will effectively stunt development of MarSOC to a certain stage with limited growth after the first cadre of Marines are replaced.

The AF does rotate some of its SOF personnel in and out of AFSOC (ex. C-130 pilots rotating in and out to "slick" units from AFSOC sqds), but it is limited and only for those selected for long-term development by their performance. It's not a normal track nor a long-term one. Eventually, they (AFSOC) pull you back in, to quote M. Corleone.

All in all, that's necessary (imo). SOF skills take time to develop and then must be constantly refined, sharpened and practiced. That's not because the skills themselves can't be learned by GPF. It's because those skills must be second nature when implemented so that SOF can use the best weapon they have (i.e. 10-lb brain) to win hearts and minds or direct precision firepower (and usually both) in ways that GPF aren't accustomed to.

Posted by: SOF supporter at June 16, 2007 10:45 AM


sorry. I haven't yet learned to control my anger, obviously... It's not your fault. But I wish someone would start talking some truth. and I see none of it.

Posted by: sharp-tongued SSG at June 15, 2007 03:18 PM


What's the matter, Christian?

No stories about the way your loser neo-clown buddies shit-canned General Casey after he opposed their latest brilliant "surge" strategy? Nothing on how your loser neo-clown buddies shit-canned Shinseki when he TOLD their deluded asses BEFORE the war, what it was actually going to take to secure the PEACE after the initial conflict? Or how about the way your loser new-clown buddies just 'retired' Peter Pace's ass? What about General White? Or General Eaton? Or General Batiste? Nothing? Not even a mention?

OK, what about when Bush claimed again and again that we didn't need more troops in Iraq (coincidentally during the 2004 Presidential campaign when John Kerry was calling for more troops – and to expand the Army)? The whole time the Generals on the ground WERE screaming for more troops after all?

Should we even mention Body Armour? Or up-armoured Humvee’s? How many lives could we have saved by being a little prepared? Or shit food and contaminated water being served to our troops? Or the fact that private contractors are making so much more than our troops – with no military regs –that it’s massively undercutting our troop morale – and even our ability to recruit/maintain our forces? What about your boy not even having the sack to call for a draft? What about stop-lossing our asses and extending our deployments over and over again? What about our National Guard being ground down to pieces? What would you be saying if this was a Democratic President???

But Halliburton made their money, huh?

Maybe someday you’ll realize that by letting these clowns get away with all these mistakes – and keeping nice and quiet like a good little church mouse – that you’re not actually HELPING us out, you’re HURTING US. Maybe. Someday.

And you know I didn’t even mention half the shit I could have. History won’t forget any of it, that’s for sure. You can go on about some nation-building dream you guys have… and that’s wonderful and all… But you know as well as I the actual reality of us actually making anything peaceful out of Iraq, right? Or have you too started believing your own shit-talk, like our shit-talker in Chief? I mean, War Czar??? You kidding me? Is THAT what we need? Until someone up there pulls their head our of their asses – and pulls your head out of their ass too- it’s just going to be more of the same, aint it?

Was that all too negative for you? Well, maybe you can just call me a liberal then, huh? That’ll make you feel better, won’t it? Put everything back in perspective for you? If it makes you feel better, then go with it, bro… whatever keeps ‘em deluded… meanwhile some of our best Americans are getting cut to pieces every damned day… not by the ones and two’s anymore either, but by the 5’s and 7’s...

Better get back to the daily propaganda now, man… They’re counting on you to be their mouthpiece not matter what new BS they’ve come up with today… How about a nice South Korea comparison? Boy, that was brilliant, huh? Wake up, man. Wake up.

Posted by: sharp-tongued SSG at June 15, 2007 02:25 PM


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