Subscribe via RSS

Archives by Date
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008

See all Archives
Archives by Category
'Canes
Afghan Update
Ammo and Munitions
Armor
Around the Globe
Av Week Extra
Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
Bizarro
Blimps
Blog Bidness
Body Armor Blues
Bomb Squad
Brownshoes in Action
Bubbleheads, etc.
Cammo Green
Catch the "Buzz"
Chem-Bio
Civilian Apps
Cloak and Dagger
Commandos
Comms
Contingency Ops
Cops and Robbers
Cyber-warfare
Data Diving
Defense Tech Poll
Dissent Tech
Door Kickers
Drones
DT Administrivia
Eat DT's Dust
Extra! Extra!
Eye on China
Fast Movers
FCS Watch
Fire for Effect
FOS Files
Friday Funnies
Gadgets and Gear
Going Green
Grand Ole Osprey
Ground Vehicles
Guns
Homeland Security
In the Weeds with Eric
Info War
Iraq Diary
Jarhead Jazz
JSF Watch
Just War Theories
Lasers and Ray Guns
Less-lethal
Logistics
Los Alamos and Labs
M4 Monopoly
Medic!
Mercs
Missiles
Money Money Money
Most Wanted
MRAP Edge
Net-Centric
Nukes
Old Skool
Our Shrinking Planet
Planes, Copters, Blimps
Politricks
Polmar's Perspective
Popular Mechanics
Rapid Fire
Raptor Watch
Red Team
Retro-Futuro
Robots
Roll Your Own
Sabra Tech
Ships and Subs
Snipertech
Space
Special Ops
Star Wars
Strategery
Stray Trons
Tactical Development
Terror Tech
The Deadlies
The Defense Biz
The Peoples' Site
The Sunday Paper
The Tanker Tango
The View from Av Week
Those Nutty Norks
Training and Sims
Trimble on the Case
Video Lounge
War Update
Ward'z Wonderz
You can run...

See all Archives
Newsletters

Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Boomer Fleet

Yesterday it was attack subs, so why not missile boats today?

ssgn_dt.jpgOf the 18 Ohio-class nuclear ballistic missile submarines built from 1976-1997, all are still in service. Four of them have been removed from strategic service and have been converted to SSGN cruise missile subs. USS Ohio (SSGN 726) and USS Florida (SSGN 728) rejoined the fleet last year, USS Michigan (SSGN 727) just rejoined the fleet a couple of weeks ago, and USS Georgia (SSGN 729) should rejoin this fall. The remaining 14 Ohios continue to serve as strategic nuclear deterrents much as they did during the Cold War.

Unlike the attack sub force, which has been nearly halved since 1990 with more cuts to come, the missile sub force has not been cut back nearly so much. Though Northrop Grumman's Newport News recently said it was ready and willing to start designing the next class of boomer, no current plans call for new boats.

If the attack sub fleet finds itself scrambling to justify its existence in an age of asymmetric land warfare, the missile subs have an even tougher task in convincing budgeters of the need for a massive nuclear deterrent in a post-Mutually Assured Destruction world. In fact, the four boats converted to SSGNs were to have been retired beginning in 2002 rather than undergo the upgrade to the D-5 Trident II missile.

How many ballistic missile subs are required to provide the US Navy the deterrent it needs? A study published last year suggests that a force of 10 SSBNs would strike the right balance between capability, cost-savings, and treaty agreements. Current treaty plans indicate a total of around 1440 nuclear warheads for US subs, meaning about 4 per missile if all 14 boats are retained. Each missile now carries up to 8 warheads. The report notes:

This distributes the available warheads across a large force which maximizes survivability but affords little savings in that additional missile airframes must be purchased to outfit a submarine force with a 45-year lifespan. The Navy should reduce the SSBN force to 10 submarines, which would increase the number of warheads per missile to six. Reducing the size of the SSBN force would save money in two ways. First, fewer D-5 missile airframes need be purchased. Second, depending upon the future missions assigned, the cost of continuing to operate four SSBNs in strategic service is eliminated. This second cost savings is reduced as the four submarines removed from the strategic mission would still be put to sea but not with the expense of maintaining a nuclear arsenal.

The study also recommends what to do with the four subs removed from strategic service. Two of them converted to SSGNs (bringing the total to six), particularly useful as special operations will continue to grow in importance in the coming years and talk of a intermediate range conventional ballistic missile means no shortage of work for the SSGN force. The other two could be used as training platforms, replacing two retired Lafayette class boats in that role.

Also, two recent columns by controversial Washington Post military blogger William M. Arkin noted the missile sub issue. In What the Weapons Makers Want he likened the boomers to the Air Force's long-range strategic bombers, and received a response from an officer on an Ohio-class sub claiming that the boats are contributing nothing, nothing at all, to the national security of the United States. Arkin discussed this response in More Subs, Fewer Boots on the Ground. Read the letter and the response for yourself and see if there's anything there. Also, check out Bubblehead's commentary on the matter.

-- Murdoc

Comments

I like this part of war. Indeed it's not normal saying that I like war, but what I mean is that I like the submarines and the technology used on them.

Posted by: papaya enzyme at July 30, 2008 04:13 AM


the old say is...walk softly and carry a big stick (the Boomer is that Big Stick)...i served on 2 boomers and it was the biggest honor of my military service...

Posted by: idcsubdoc at July 3, 2007 11:08 AM


One thing history shows is that the future is never certain and threats keep evolving. The first Cold War may be over, but Putin's increasing belligerence and China's rapid advancement in both conventional and nuclear capabilities means that it would be premature for the USA to cut it strategic missile boat fleet too much.

Posted by: Cameron Gill at June 30, 2007 11:12 AM


We MUST keep the 14 SSBNs and the 4 SSGNs the US Navy has in the works.....The newly modified SSGNs carry 22 MACs in their 24 missile tubes, the 2 spares are for SPECIAL OPS, MACs are multiple all round up cannisters that each hold 7 improved Tomahawk land attack missiles, that's gives the SSGN 154 cruise missiles that can be volley fired in 6 minutes.
The Russian navy under Putin's guidance is building 3 new SSBN's armed with the new Bulava ICBM, which apparently now works, after a few dismal failures, this missile has 6 MIRVS. The PLAN, China's navy is build new project 094 SSBN's to be armed with the JL-2 sub launched missile. While China's new Project 093 SSNs are being built to replace the older Han class nuke attack boats, they'll carry the newest versions
of wake homing and wire guided torpedoes, high speed anti-ship cruise missiles and are aimed at keeping US Navy Carrier Strike Groups well away from China's mainland....The new Chinese "String of Pearls" defense plan is also aimed at keeping the USN at bay. China plans to equip each of her three naval fleets with a small deck carrier which will use the naval variant of the Russian SU-27 Flanker, fighter bomber, the SU-33. China's has just purchased several of these SU-33's from her main weapons supplier, Russia. Eventually they will build their own versions with Chinese engines. The SU-33 has "fold up" wing tips and extra canards as well as additional hard points under the wings for weapons, like anti-ship missiles.

We now have the 21st century version of the COLD WAR being set in place, the US at odds with Russia in the Atlantic, North Pacific, and maybe South America and a growing threat from China in the Pacific and SE Asia. China now has "access" to several ports in the Indian Ocean, courtesy of Pakistan...One is near the Strait of Hormuz..the good news is that India is now becoming a US ally
and hopefully she'll act as a counter-balance to China in the Indian Ocean.

Sometime before 2050, the date set by Beijing as when they'll be able to face down the US, we're going to have a serious military conflict with either of the above two "baddies," or with them both at the same time. We need to build our military resources and focus on the strategic issues wew confronted by in the 21st century,
and at the same time end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by destroying the outsiders who are
killing our troops every day.
It is in China's and Russia's best u=interest to have the US bogged down in a prolonged war draining our vital resources of PEOPLE and arms.
WE desparately need real people of vison in Washington, our country deserves nothing else at this time.

Posted by: Robert A. Melley at June 30, 2007 08:55 AM


hey

first question:what is the point of our enemies present and future being affraid to start a war if they develope gama weapons or what have you that instead of nukes they use gamma or whatever warheads. weapons that except for a few minerals leave no radioactive fallout only destroying biologicals.(i know half the ppl reading this just rolled there eyes) but think about it say to defend against air attack he developes weapons capable of intercepting missiles and any fighter or bomber because of the flight time maybe develope hipervelocity nuke missiles that fly low and fast.......the future is here anything above the waves will either have to accept it may not be possible to go without armor on the surface or mount enough defences to keep afloat and satelites get cheaper and easier to deploy. being able to go silent and deep and then pop up and attack then fade away may be our biggest deturent.....and for everone who thinks there wont be anymore large wars...how many would have said there couldnt be another before ww2....people will always take advantage of a weakness were hunters its our nature it cares nothing for logic or reason its about millions of years of evolution


fact is no one likes us..hell even canada thinks were bad ppl we have to be able to play a good bluff and let them know or hand is far better than theres

Posted by: James at June 29, 2007 07:38 PM


The deterence value of the SSBN is severely limited. We already have an ICBM force and a nuclear bomber capable force. How much deterence do we need?
and this 'we need them to stike back after the first wave of the nuclear war' bit above is simply delusional.

And if anyone is concerned that we dont have the money, well we now pay approximately 165 billion dollars a year in debt service. courtesy of RR, GHWB, and GWB. want more money available for weapons? vote democrat in 08.

Oh and its not the subs that defeated the USSR in the cold war. It was the Saudis.
Check this link from notorious rightwing 'thinktank' AEI:
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/5975.html

Posted by: Aaron at June 29, 2007 01:50 PM


I served on 2 SSN's, and 4 SSBN" over 28 years of my 32 year career, Source rate was Torpedoman, later changed to Missile Tech. I worked on every class of SLBM to date, including Polaris A2, A3, Poseidon C3, Trident C4, and D5. I retired as Masterchief Missile Tech(SS/SU/DV).
I am, and will be forever amazed, at the ignorance of so called defense analysts, and those who would purport to speak for the entire Submarine Force, regarding past mission profiles, current Mission Profiles, and more importantly Future Mission Profiles.
One can look at todays strategic, tactical, and diplomatic relationships with the rest of the world, and probably determine on face value, we do not need the current sub force. I think any of us who served on these boats over the years, recognize, that not all is seen or known, by the public and our defense planners, regardless of clearance level.
Bluewater, as well as Littoral Operations, speciffically as it relates to SSN's, has morphed dramatically over the years.
With exception of Patrol Reports, and Intel gleaned from those at the Operational level, and Intelligence collection, analysis, and distribution, to those consumers of the Intel in the Military, legislative, and executive branches, very little about Our Operations over the past 60 years is known by the general Public.
Much can be filtered through all of these channels, to forcefeed vague concepts of the SUB Force mission, and platform necessity.
I have long supported the classified, and clandestine mission, many of us know precisely what happened, but will forever keep this knowledge close to the breast.
By Same token, the American Public ought to know, some additional truths about current and future threats, they do not know now.
This idea we can reduce our current SSBN force to 10 deployed nuclear platfroms, is only valid, if one is thinking in purely shortsighted, limited, timelines.
Apparently those who would suggest, that we reduce our SSBN platforms to 10, are not taking into account current SSBN and SSN building programs in both Russia, and China. Nuclear deterrence when directed at the biggest junkyard dogs on the block is fine and dandy, as long as everyone continues to play by current rules.
I have been around long enough to know, the rules change, and they usually change when you least expect them too. China and Russia are both eyeing the United States with an eye towards the future. These People do not plan ideological and Military options, in 4, and 6 year slices of time. They do not think in terms of the next election.
Both countries, are very much patience. Both are watching a United States, that in my personal opinion is declineing at many levels. societal, and cultural changes are massing in this country in ways we never thought possible...A weaker, more vulnerable Military in my opinion is destined to result.
Having some big guns like the Tridents is crucial to long term stability. in the world. We have to make it very clear to current and future Foes, that it is not in their best interest to challnege us, or hurt us.
I would on balance not be totally opposed to a reduction to 10-12 Tridents retaining full nuclear certification. Conversion of 2 additional Boats, would certainly add to our Littoral and land attack, mission profiles with either conventional warhead TLAM's or the possibility of ressurecting the TLAM-N with those W80 units still in our stockpile.
The War on Terror, is a generational war. This war, will live on long past anything going on in Iraq, and Afghanistan right now.
Looking towards Radical Islamic penetration into Central and South America, joint operations between AL QAEDA, and perhaps other radical Islamic groups, and some of the Central, and South American countries, Like Nicaraugua, and Venezuela is possible. MS-13, is thought to have had superficial contact with Al Qaeda.
Threats from the south, as well as existing conventional threats, need a broadbased Strategic, as well as tactical, and SPECOPS, offensive, and defensive capability. a Healthy combo of Trident, and SSGN, SSN, platforms, makes damn sure we can mount successful foreign policy descisons for the current and long term future.
I hope considerable long term planning goes into any decisions our policy makers engage in.
I quite frankly am not optimistic we have legislative, and defense Planners who are capable of making these decisons. And given the current crop of Presidential material we are given, I am also not optimistic we will have the leadership in the future capable of making some tough decisions about force levels, as well as conventional and Nuclear Force response Options.
Nuff Said. Thanks for allowing an Old Masterchief to state my opinions.

Posted by: Robert W Keene at June 29, 2007 12:40 PM


I served on the USS Lafayette, SSBN 616 74-78. I have heard several reports that it was our submarine service and technology that brough down the Russians. The Cold War, although seldom acknowledged may have been the greatest war ever fought, and we won without firing ashot. How many more wars can be handled this way, if we keep our fleet prepare at all times. China's technology is looming on the horizon, they are a communist nation and a potential threat to our security. Our missile boats may be the only thing that is keeping them is restraint.However, our paroblem is gong to be the lack of leadership and confidence in our government, that they will use the big guns, when needed.

Posted by: David Berry at June 29, 2007 11:18 AM


Training a boat crew to maneuver in littoral waters is time consuming and expensive. Littoral operations place the boat and crew at extreme risk for detection.(I still remember how it felt) The relatively compact size and maneuverability of fast-attacks makes them better platforms for such operations and does not expose a large number of nuclear warheads to capture. And in the event of a really bad day you don't need as many scuttle charges with the smaller boats.

Navigating an undersea mountain range or plotting airholes is child's play compared to littoral operations. Littoral operations place a boat near the surface; the surface is where targets live.

Posted by: Alex at June 29, 2007 11:12 AM


In light of the recent Chinese advancements, (our fault, security leaks and give aways) a 5% loss would be devistating. The military arsenal numbers should always include a worst case loss number.

Posted by: James Baudier at June 29, 2007 10:41 AM


To ajay, murdoc and Allen T: The difference between all the other launch platforms and the SSBN: DETECTABILITY!
The NVA had little problem knocking down fighter-bombers and B-52s in the 60s & 70s. (Aerial defenses have advanced since then.) Most any surface ship can be neutralized from hundreds of miles away. (Though we ARE developing low detectable surface ships now, 95% of our surface fleet still has this vunerability.) OUR fleet could only detect our SSBNs 5% of the time, when they KNEW they were present and nearby. The Soviets were even LESS capable, their declassified records show. Sub-dispatched SOF forces either "lock-out", through escape chambers (scuba or drager breathing systems) or leave via "piggy-back" mini-subs. Both technologies have been in use since the 70s. The sub never surfaces, thus is near non-detectable.
I helped BUILD the Los Angeles and Trident class subs, at Electric Boat, in the late 80s. These systems were in general use even back then.
Earlier commenters have hinted, America has a very unhealthy habit of crippling our armed forces, between wars. We have ended up regretting it, but STILL have a perchance of doing it again. Our legislative branch seems to prefer "cost effectiveness", rather than "combat readiness", throughout our history. Better to stop giving away tens of BILLIONS to a world that rarely reciprocates, (even attacks us) than short-change our military.
Keeping the subs, as our primary launch platform, is the best option. Detection systems have lagged behind sub technology for decades. In the 60s & 70s our subs were so covert, we were able to park them in Soviet sub ports (for early detection of sub deployments) and even comprimise a communication cable for the Soviet's Pacific Fleet! (If memory serves; I think it took them about 2 years to realize what we'd done. They couldn't believe we even HAD that capability.) All in all, we have the most advanced and undetectable subs in the world, let's not cripple ourselves by scrapping them! (BTW, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that we've had a SSBN parked off Iran's coast, for a year or so, waiting for them to do something incredibly stupid.) Radar, US Army `73-`75

Posted by: Radar at June 29, 2007 09:09 AM


Gentlemen, remember the one single aspect of a submarine.. It is a Mobile platform... Period.
In my opinion, we are a number of Subs short..
Considering, that for a 18 month time span, 3 subs, make up 1 deployment. 1 on deployment, 1 on stand down, 1 on refit, for deployment..

People always forget that there is a rotational period for crews. North Korea just launched a test missile. Iran, is very close to doing it. The need for a highly mobile, stealthy launch platform, nuclear capable is needed, and will actually rise.. China is develeping their military at an aggressive rate.
The huge deterent isnt the number of weapons on the platform. It is the fact that it is out there, undetected.
Incase of an actualy conflict, we would have to go with a 30% loss , meaning, that even before our subs launch, we stand to loose 30% before they can launch.. No need to be caught with pants down..
Last week alone, Russia stated the fact, or re-targeting missiles at Europe.. SO the threat is stilll there.. may not be obvious but it is still there..

Posted by: Ron at June 29, 2007 07:35 AM


Gentlemen, remember the one single aspect of a submarine.. It is a Mobile platform... Period.
In my opinion, we are a number of Subs short..
Considering, that for a 18 month time span, 3 subs, make up 1 deployment. 1 on deployment, 1 on stand down, 1 on refit, for deployment..

People always forget that there is a rotational period for crews. North Korea just launched a test missile. Iran, is very close to doing it. The need for a highly mobile, stealthy launch platform, nuclear capable is needed, and will actually rise.. China is develeping their military at an aggressive rate.
The huge deterent isnt the number of weapons on the platform. It is the fact that it is out there, undetected.
Incase of an actualy conflict, we would have to go with a 30% loss , meaning, that even before our subs launch, we stand to loose 30% before they can launch.. No need to be caught with pants down..
Last week alone, Russia stated the fact, or re-targeting missiles at Europe.. SO the threat is stilll there.. may not be obvious but it is still there..

Posted by: Ron at June 29, 2007 07:32 AM


Better to have a weapon system already "on the
shelf" so to speak and not need it than to need
one and not have it.
If the boomer's go they will probably never be
replaced considering the current tone in
Congress.
People have forgotten the Army and Navy pre
WWII when troops drilled with broomsticks or
limited ammo.
Do not scrap something just because it appears to not be needed at the moment

Posted by: L. Briggs at June 29, 2007 06:49 AM


Ajay,
A surface vessel is a lot easier to find and sink.
The boomers are the most cost effective way of continuing a nuclear deterrent. The four that have been converted to cruise missle,s/f insertion subs are also more cost effective than a surface vessel. Dropping an s/fteam by helo has already shown, in Afghanistan, to be a quick way to loose the chopper and the team The subs already exist and only a complete fool would scrap vessels halfway through their life spans.

Posted by: Max at June 28, 2007 01:07 PM


Good Morning Folks,

As usual the obvious hasn't been stated here. Of the Cold War Triad, SAC is history and the silos that are left are approaching 50 years old.
The "Boomers" are the ONLY nuclear response the U.S. has left. In the event of war any operational land based missiles would have to be fired in less the 18 min., lets face it the silos would be among the first targets on any bad guys list.

The Ballastic Missile Submarines offer the only varable and measured response to a nuclear event the U.S. has. Instead of putting a region of the globe back into the stone age a measured response could be make to the offending party with a single low yeld device instead of the typical 100MKT standard Minuteman warhead.

Additionaly subs are cost effective. during low threat periods one or two boats could be on ramdom patrols. During periods of expanded threat several boats could be despatched to an area where a nuclear response could be likely. Subs with crews of about 130 personal are cheaper to maintain then land bases that would have that many in "Public Works" on base alone.

The nuclear threat is no going to go away, the U.S. needs a deterence as well as a response. The "Boomers" are the best and most cost effective method of maintaining these goals.

ALLONS
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at June 28, 2007 12:40 PM


More importantly, how much use is it to rerole SSBNs as SSGNs rather than just scrapping them?

An Ohio SSGN has two roles.

First, it can launch a lot of cruise missiles. But so can a surface ship, or an aircraft. Do we really need a ferociously expensive submarine to do a job that a modified frigate or destroyer could do?

Seriously. Take an old Burke-class destroyer, rip out the Aegis kit and the helo hangar, and replace it with lots and lots of VLS cells. Fast, cheap arsenal ship. Burkes already have 90 VLS cells and a crew of 300. Ditch the helo and the anti-air role and you could cut the crew by, say, 80 and double the number of cells - more cells than Ohio, slightly more crew.
Or just send two unmodified Burkes, or a squadron of B-52s with AGM-86s.

Don't forget the range of these things. They can launch from well over the horizon - you don't need a stealthy platform to get within a thousand miles of the enemy coast. You could hang them on a 747 or fire them off an oil rig if you wanted.

Next, SOF deployment. This is a hell of an expensive platform to put at risk sneaking around an enemy littoral. And, if you lose it, it's carrying 154 SLCMs - big loss of capability for the fleet.

Are there really so many occasions on which we need to put large SOF teams on an enemy coast that we need lots of immense billion-dollar platforms to do it? Is this really such a valuable capability? Can it really not be done by, say, a current SSN, or HALO drop, or any of the other sneaky ways of inserting?
Yes, I'm sure there are some occasions where it would be necessary. There are some occasions where it would be necessary to have a VTOL hypersonic transport. But not very many; and given limited resources, maybe we should look elsewhere.

Posted by: ajay at June 28, 2007 07:11 AM


Allen: Right you are. It would have been better phrased to write "How many ballistic missile subs are required to provide the US Navy the capability it needs to meet it's share of America's deterrence requirements" or some such.

The report that I link to does, in fact, go into the Navy's part in a shared deterrence capability.

Posted by: Murdoc at June 27, 2007 07:49 PM


> "How many ballistic missile subs are required to provide the US Navy the deterrent it needs?"

This is perhaps overly picky, but that's just the way I am.

The US Navy doesn't need a strategic nuclear deterrent. The United States of America probably does.

Decisions about what the US deterrent force should be should certainly be informed by input from the Navy and Air Force, but only in the context of higher-level considerations about what America needs.

Posted by: Allen Thomson at June 27, 2007 04:48 PM


Post a comment




Remember Me?


Please enter the code as seen in the image below to post your comment.