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Posted by: luxury watch at April 21, 2009 03:31 AM

There's no way a modern weapon attached to a tank could melt a bus. Think about the energy requirements involved to power such a device.

The big news in Iraq is a TTL killing program, probably by irradiating the enemy in a way that they're easily picked up on by a spotter UAV. (imho)

Posted by: David Stone at September 17, 2008 03:03 AM

damn some of you peoplare f'n scarry.

There are always those idiots in society that help perpetuate the abuse and tyranny as it grows....thats just history repeating itself over and over again.

Posted by: timmy o tool at September 10, 2008 12:20 PM

nice to meet you

Posted by: wowpowerleveling at April 15, 2008 02:57 AM

what silliness. want to disperse a crowd? ask a chemist. start tossing butyric acid and some thios on the pavement just in front of the crowd. Throw in some putricene and you've got quite a NON-LETHAL party. Cost? A whole lot less than this silly contraption. It can be sprayed from a super-soaker, or misted over the crowd by a predator drone.

All you 'kill em all' christian conservatives here are blood-thirsty hypocrites, bent on pissing away what remains of any world-wide good will and my tax money to boot. You couldn't freakin' balance the budget in the last six years, and now you just want to waste more on worthless techniques for 'crowd control'. Get off your cross-bearing hatred of socially-evolved countrymen and start thinking up inexpensive effective alternatives to your sci-fi 'weapons'. Or impeach the current administration for getting us into this fix, and go buy something that doesn't perpetuate your addiction to overseas energy. Blubbering idiots.

Posted by: Oh Yawn at December 30, 2007 01:16 PM

Defense Tech? How about Defense Baloney. What a silly discussion.

Posted by: john smith at September 10, 2007 07:30 PM

This thing should be deployed immediately!! The media and many of the weak headed that always holler human rights or torture should not be dictating policy. Now that Rumsfield is gone, Gates may do the right thing and get into the theater immediately. Sure a lot better to make people feel uncomfortable fir a little while than to have them wounded or killed either by troops trying to protect themselves or the bad guys intermingled with the crown.

Posted by: CRSChief at September 6, 2007 12:32 PM

Is it that much more effective than current non-lethal systems like teargas, rubber bullets, and water cannons?

How easy in practice would it be to protect the vehicle & crew? - Once it becomes a known quantity, while the crowd is running there's going to be people positioned ready to take potshots at it.

Posted by: AK at September 2, 2007 05:28 PM

Without these things bullets at most will have to be used more or rubber bullets wich can cause death if impacts with the head and will cause deep bruises if they hit anywhere.

Posted by: txzen at September 1, 2007 03:15 PM

I got zapped by the small demo unit of this at Sea Air Space a few years ago. It left a small scar on my finger. Time for full size deployment! All they need is a dial that goes to 11.

Posted by: dag at August 31, 2007 03:16 PM

Since when the a human rights group's opinion dictates miltary policy? The extreme liberalism "cancer" has reached even the Pentagon..... I hope this is a nightmare, and we are going to wake up soon, or we are certainly doomed! We pride ourselves so much about respecting human life, but we do exactly the oposite with our decisions. This weapon needed to be out there wherever needed "yesterday".

Posted by: Aida at August 31, 2007 02:05 PM

The Active Denial System should be employed immediately in Iraq and other hotspots in the world where human lives can be spared while our troops are trying to accomplish their mission.

Legislators need to get some backbone and stop allowing every bonehead who claims to be for human rights to dictate what is common sense.

The temporary pain from a heat ray pales in the face of loss of human life by bullets and missles, and the too often broadcase scenes of dead bodies in the streets, including sometimes the bodies of our troops.

APPROVE THE A.D.S. RIGHT AWAY PLEASE.

Posted by: Gerald Richardson at August 31, 2007 08:36 AM

I know I'd be running from one of those microwave toasters if they tried frying me :P It sounds pretty damn uncomfortable while you're in the way of the beam, but if test dummies can laugh afterwards, the effect doesn't linger too long.

As for the funny tank with bus-melting capabilities... If it actually exists, and works, then the more the merrier, if they'll melt a bus, they'll take care of a BMP or BMD without a problem. the question is does it take more gas to power the generators than it cost to fire a 120mm round?

Posted by: Rhys at August 31, 2007 05:04 AM

...What's next? Invisible soldiers? Heat rays? Really, this is stuff right out of a bad sci-fi movie! Cool, though. And I'm all for it as long as it's used in the RIGHT WAY.

Posted by: The Kris at August 31, 2007 03:31 AM

Good answer Dave,thats why I first described that article as an "urban legend." thats what also gave me my fantasy idea of some sort of hovercraft like out of the original "War of the Worlds" movie.Someone said that the weapon described would need to use so much power to operate it that it most likely would be on a track vehicle....however......this vehicle operating with normal M1A1/A2 tanks? Somebody(like an M1 tanker) is going to talk.I'm sorry,you can tell Pvt Joe Average Tanker(with just a normal clearance) that what he saw was classified,but he IS going to spill the beans.I'm sorry,if I saw a weapon that can melt a bus & shrivel & burn a human down to the size of an infant,I'm selling my story & it ain't to the Enquieror or the World Weekly News.
But okay,how about a UH-19XRW Hoverwing modified to fly unmanned & with thrust vectors so it can fly stationary,add a Trophy or Quick Kill Active Protection System to it,& have the Active Denial System come up out of its bay? You can set the Active Denial System to non-lethal or to "melt a vehicle into a pool of molten metal & burn & shrivel a body up to the size of an infant" lethal mode. Huh,huh?

Posted by: Roy Smith at August 31, 2007 01:37 AM

Who beside Ghazali, has seen the effects as described by the Bill Dash report. The Telsa effect does not shrink humans nor melt buses. The effect of the weapon would be no more than the living persons struck by lightning exibit. get real.

Posted by: Dave at August 31, 2007 12:38 AM

Torture? I don't know, all the videos I've seen of people getting blasted by this thing are hysterically funny! Granted, I wouldn't necessarily want to be on the business end of it, but obviously it can't be too awful when even many "zapped" people crack up laughing themselves after they've been hit.

Obviously it's uncomfortable and you have to leave, but torture? The only way this device could be used to torture is if you couldn't get out of the way. But with crowd dispersal, the goal is to make people want to move out of the way. Everything has the potential to be a torture device, and the barbaric regimes of the world do quite well with the low tech stuff they have on hand. Besides, the price of this thing will probably limit its use for a good time coming, if it ever gets deployed.

Posted by: Schrecken Licht at August 30, 2007 10:36 PM

There are obviously too damned liberals at the pentagon that wants our troops to lose the war.
Maybe even their lives.

Posted by: Ron Christian at August 30, 2007 06:25 PM

Of course,what we need to "mess" with the enemies' minds is a modified hovercraft that can hover off the ground on an electro-magnetic field,emit an electro-magnetic "Tesla Dome" field to block incoming rockets & missiles,& armed with this weapon turned up to "melt" enemy vehicles & "shrink" bodies like the previous post described.Shades of the original "War of the Worlds" movie.We'll just deliver them(the vehicles) to the battlefield enclosed in metallic cylinders that land from the sky(I bet you thought I was going to say "space," huh?) & have them travel in threes(just kidding).Come on,don't you think that our superior technology could come up with that?

Posted by: Roy Smith at August 30, 2007 02:39 PM

Horrifying US Secret
Weapon Unleashed In Baghdad
Exclusive By Bill Dash
c. 2003 All Rights Reserved
8-25-03

A nightmarish US super weapon reportedly was employed by American ground forces during chaotic street fighting in Baghdad. The secret tank-mounted weapon was witnessed in all its frightening power by Majid al-Ghazali, a seasoned Iraqi infantryman who described the device and its gruesome effects as unlike anything he had ever encountered in his lengthy military service. The disturbing revelation is yet another piece of cinematic evidence brought back from postwar Iraq by intrepid filmmaker Patrick Dillon.

In the film, al-Ghazali, whose english is less than fluent, describes the weapon as reminiscent of a flame thrower, only immensely more powerful. It is unclear what principle the weapon is based on. Searching for a description, al-Ghazali said it appeared to be shooting concentrated lightning bolts rather than just ordinary flames. Drawing on his many years as a professional engineer, al-Ghazali speculates that radiation of some kind probably figures into the weapon's hideous capabilities. Like all men in Saddam's Iraq, al-Ghazali was compelled to serve in the Iraqi equivalent of the Army National Guard and fought in three wars over the past thirty-odd years. Via email, he told me he has seen virtually every type of conventional weapon employed in battle, and is well acquainted with their effects on people and machines, but nothing in his extensive combat experience prepared him for the shock of what he saw in Baghdad on April 12th.

On that date, al-Ghazali and his family sheltered in their house as a fierce street battle erupted in his neighborhood. In the midst of the fighting, he noticed that the Americans had called up an oddly configured tank. Then to his amazement the tank suddenly let loose a blinding stream of what seemed like fire and lightning, engulfing a large passenger bus and three automobiles. Within seconds the bus had become semi-molten, sagging "like a wet rag" as he put it. He said the bus rapidly melted under this withering blast, shrinking until it was a twisted blob about the dimensions of a VW bug. As if that were not bizarre enough, al-Ghazali explicitly describes seeing numerous human bodies shriveled to the size of newborn babies. By the time local street fighting ended that day, he estimates between 500 and 600 soldiers and civilians had been cooked alive as a result of the mysterious tank-mounted device.

In a city littered everywhere with burned-out civilian and military vehicles, US forces were abnormally scrupulous about immediately detailing bulldozers and shovel crews to the job of burying the grim wreckage. Nevertheless, telltale remnants remained as Dillon found when al-Ghazali later took him to the site. Dillon said they easily uncovered large puddles of resolidified metal and mounds of weird fibrous material that, al-Ghazali explained, were all that remained of the vehicles' tires. Dillon, who accumulated plenty of battlefield experience as a medic in Viet-Nam, and has since covered a number of wars from Somalia to Kosovo, told me that he has witnessed every kind of conventional ordnance that can be used on humans and vehicles. " I've seen a freaking smorgasbord of destruction in my life," he said, "flame-throwers, napalm, white phosphorous, thermite, you name it. I know of nothing short of an H-bomb that conceivably might cause a bus to instantly liquefy or that can flash broil a human body down to the size of an infant. God pity humanity if that thing is a preview of what's in store for the 21st century."

For Majid al-Ghazali, images of the terrifying weapon and its victims haunt his every day. In addition to his work as an engineer, he is also a highly accomplished classical violinist, occupying the first chair in the Baghdad Symphony. He is widely acknowledged as one of the preeminent violinists in the Middle East. Besides his family, one of his greatest joys is teaching at Baghdad's premier music conservatory. Unfortunately, the conservatory was utterly destroyed. Yet somehow, despite the war's horrors and its seemingly endless privations, he manages to maintain a remarkably hopeful outlook. He recently informed me that the Baghdad Symphony continues to exist and has been invited to perform in the United States in December.

Posted by: Roy Smith at August 30, 2007 02:20 PM

Anyone who has ever put metal in a microwave would be worried about this thing. Did any of the tests ever consider people with pocket change, belt buckles, etc?

Posted by: Lee J Rickard at August 30, 2007 01:28 PM

anyone for teargas?

Posted by: eric at August 30, 2007 04:02 AM

You know,there is an urban legend on conspiracy websites that an electro-magnetic weapon similar to this but was so big that it had to be mounted on a track vehicle,maybe like on an M1 chassis,was used in the invasion of Iraq by the American army against a crowded Iraqi bus.Supposedly it "melted the bus & [this is where my suspension of disbelief ends] shrunk the burned remains of the bodies to the size of an infant(talking about adult average size,no dwarfs,bodies being shrunk).Well,hope you enjoyed that story.You can find it on the web.

Posted by: Roy Smith at August 30, 2007 12:12 AM

PS. Could this thing be of any use against IED's? What would it do against people wearing Suicide Vests? I'm not sure about it's directional capabilities. But if it were something like a phased array, couldn't it be used to cover several areas almost simultaneously? Such as covering multiple windows & doorways of multi-story buildings? Or at least making it difficult for enemy snipers... just a thought.

Posted by: Camp at August 29, 2007 09:50 PM

IMHO, the people preventing US troops from using this system should be given a choice. Shot with the 'Active Denial System', or shot with a 5.56mm... It sounds reasonable to me.

Here's an idea: Mount the array (or arrays) on a C-130, similar to a Spooky & don't tell anyone. Out of sight, out of mind, and save lives.

I maybe wrong, but this system could also have great benefit mounted aboard ships. Preventing small craft from approaching warships (USS Cole), enabling the crew to discriminate between determined attackers & curious bystanders. Creating a no-go zone around ships when docked (an automated system), or maybe help deter pirates from attacking cargo vessels & tankers at sea (ie. coast of Somalia). I wonder what affect this system would have on small aircraft & pigeons?

If the ADS has an image problem, it's probably because nobody is out there effectively educating people on the alternatives (ie. get shot).

And they should probably stop calling the ADS 'non-lethal', & say it's 'less-than-lethal'. Otherwise some old fart with pacemaker is going to go, and stand out in front of this thing one day. Trying to prove something to someone, only to end up croaking... then people would stand around saying, "See! It kills old people."

Or maybe not. 8O)

Posted by: Camp at August 29, 2007 08:42 PM

Ok, this has good and bad uses:
The Good:
Can be used to get bad guys hiding-out to come out for apprehension, nice way to keep soldiers from getting killed, better than tasers. Can be used to force all the bad guys to one region ?

The Bad:
Drug Dealers, Bad Guys, Forced Confessions, Interrogation Techniques without evidence, Only a matter of time before the Chinese clone it and sell it on the black market. It's big and bulky, the unit is too big for non-vehicle portability

Somehow this reminds me of large microwave towers.
It's an "Outdoor Oven" for people !

Posted by: Idont wanna tellya at August 29, 2007 07:23 PM

We are such wimps! The system is a dream come true. It can disperse crowds with out killing any one by causing discomfort that can be instantly relieved by getting away. I have not seen any one advocate tying somebody to a post and turning the beam on them to torture them. These people will vacate of their own free will and if they don't we will know what their real purpose for being in the crowd is. Then military can take appropriate action at that time. We are accused of killing civilians whether we did or did not and the public media picks up on this and says the we killed civilians and if we didn't there is no retraction by the media. If we use the ADS before deadly force is authorized and some one is injured or killed it will be because they were injured by the crowd trying to get away or the insugents in the crowd committed the crime, but this would prove our true intent to not hard civiians. I feel that we should give our troops every advantage that we can, to protect them and any innocents in the area. This system should be deployed as quickly as possible and we should tell the human rights people to rethink there position. Is it better to kill some one or just disperse them. Which is more Humane.

Posted by: Michael Tascarini at August 29, 2007 04:20 PM