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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

How To Avoid Another Va. Tech

va-tech.jpg

You know, Defense Tech’s descriptor says “the future of military, law enforcement and national security”... and I’ve admittedly been negligent in the whole “law enforcement” part of it.

Well, no longer.

My good friend David Woroner who is the head honcho with Survival Consultants International down in West Palm, Florida, wrote an assessment of the Va. Tech murder spree back in April, and updated his report a couple days ago with the release of the official investigation by the Virginia state government.

Dave is a veteran security contractor and consultant with international experience. You might remember - he’s the inventor and manufacturer of the Wor4 Tacrail.

I’ve posted his April assessment to be followed by his latest review of the Kaine report.

(Originally posted April 18 – Editor)

Time for some changes... finally?

I have spoken for years not only to corporations but to educational facilities, outreach programs, and many other places where people congregate.

What I have said so many times has come home to roost once again. The awful rampage of one man, only armed with a semi-automatic pistol, can be and was devastating. I have tried to get the message out—tried to implant a simple piece of knowledge that "everything can change in a second."

There are a few things I would like to address and, as a professional, feel it is my responsibility to do so again here and now. Any place where people congregate is, and has been, a target for a "lone active shooter" or a determined group to rain down the horror we have again witnessed. It doesn't matter if it's a local mall, school, church, etc.... These ill-intentioned people seek "clusters of people."

Some mentalities that must change:

An active shooter within a closed, confined space is only going to stop when one of several things happens:

They run out of ammunition

There are no targets within range

They take their own lives

An armed professional engages and "removes" the threat

Behavior must change—do not "hunker down." Move in any way possible away from the threat as quickly and safely as possible. The youngsters at Columbine who may have cut themselves or injured themselves getting out of a second story window made a much wiser choice than simply staying where they were.

What colleges, corporations, and other facilities cost for a person to learn, work, etc. these days demands that each large building—on a campus for instance—should have an armed professional within. If there was an armed security agent in any of these places, surely the toll taken would have been less. A trained and skilled security agent/retired law enforcement/active duty law enforcement officer who is armed has a much greater chance of ending an "active shooter's" rampage. Without question, it is my opinion that an armed professional should be located within the ranges of these places where numbers of people congregate.

"It won't happen here..."

Well, I think that point is shown to be absurdly wrong with the latest rounds of homicidal, suicidal Kamikaze-type attacks in small school houses, large campuses, and shopping malls. Usually a director of security is then forced to hire "baton only" type security. This must change. You don't bring a club to a gunfight.

When will the "higher echelon" of business, educational, and other entities finally realize that there are a lot of highly-trained men and women that would gladly accept these positions? Is the money more important than the well being of the people who visit you? Think for a moment, if you will, how many ex-law enforcement and soon to be ex-soldiers will be coming home. There will be a large pool to draw from. It would be about time to find these folks, offer them a decent living wage, and know that children, women, and brave men (a 76-year-old holocaust survivor) would not have to die needlessly.

Finally, there are a multitude of other ramifications, opportunities, techniques, and more to be had and obtained to assist in keeping people safer. In the end, there is no guarantee, but some people "up the ladder" should now, hopefully, get the message. Anytime, any place... yes, there are monsters.

We’ll post Dave’s “Part II: Assessment of the Kaine Report” later today.

-- Christian

Comments

"If this guy was known to TWO Dr's to have MENTAL ISSUES, why didn't the "fantastic force" have intel on that? hmmm?"

Because the doctors (and university officials) are barred from disclosing the information as a result of state and federal privacy laws. This could easily be changed to create some sensible safe harbors to protect public safety with new new additional personnel and only modest training of existing personnel through existing continuing education systems.

The American Bar Association proposed a similar reform for attorneys in the latest round of legal ethics reform proposals and those are currently being adopted by state supreme courts around the country. In Colorado, those changes take effect January 1, 2008.

Posted by: ohwilleke at September 21, 2007 01:25 PM


Once again, everyone misses the point. There were "trained professionals" on site at Virginia Tech. They were unable to stop the threat because they could not reach the threat. Until this country begins to obey the Constitution, namely the Second Amendment, and allow armed citizens to carry weapons, this kind of senseless tragedy will never stop, no matter how many "trained professionals" are around.

Posted by: david at September 7, 2007 10:52 AM


Paid armed professional can be a good countermeasure against a student going mad. However, it also adds the risk of the armed professional going mad; he's a human too, with his own problems, and in case of a war vet possibly also with latent case of PTSD.

Posted by: Shad at September 7, 2007 05:34 AM


Hi All,

Im gonna offer you something to look at.
If AFTER YOU VIEW VIEW IT, you tell me your this adept w/a pistol fine.........ok?

But if you watch them and your NOT, ADMIT IT! So its time to put up or umm shut up.

www.berettatactical.com/forums/thread/247.aspx

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres., SCI at September 7, 2007 04:28 AM


Quote: "An active shooter within a closed, confined space is only going to stop when one of several things happens:

They run out of ammunition

There are no targets within range

They take their own lives

An armed professional engages and "removes" the threat" End Quote.

An armed "professional"? How about an armed CITIZEN?

Posted by: L at September 6, 2007 09:55 PM


"So now you are criticizing the police? these guys put their asses on the line every day. Go back to waxing your pistol shallow water sailor boy. Why do you try so hard to prove your manliness, are you gay?"

No Sir, Are you a Police Officer?

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres. SCI at September 6, 2007 03:00 PM


You guys have not read the victims reports on the wikipedia have you? These are some of the things i noticed and are left as a random thought for you all to ponder.

A soldier did die trying to tackle the idiot.
Two Professors did die trying to save the students they taught one succeeded the other did not.
Bicycle chains were used to lock the doors so no one could escape. Professors and Classmates alike shunned this man and made him feel unwelcome disliked and pretty much expelled him from his classes. Students all think it is someone else's responsibility for their safety parents think pretty much the same thing. It is YOUR responsibility no one else's.

I get so tired of hearing hire more security, ban guns, and sue the officials for not keeping my kid safe. It is just not cost effective and generally not a good deterrent. Common decency would have been a good deterrent, as well as charity of the heart. It was plane as day obvious he was having problems at school, yet everyone doing something about it was doing the wrong things to him there needed to be balance to restore his balance.

Oh well there are my random thoughts
D~W

Posted by: Draq Wraith at September 6, 2007 05:32 AM


So now you are criticizing the police? these guys put their asses on the line every day. Go back to waxing your pistol shallow water sailor boy. Why do you try so hard to prove your manliness, are you gay?

Posted by: Hubris Sonic at September 5, 2007 09:46 PM



I don't know who is responding to this peice, and I apologize to see that the "second part" is not up..... i can't help that.
However, if after 9-11, folks STILL cant think outside the box, please don't take one of my CT courses, you'll have to be wheeled out with oxygen and ativan drip! I teach it very rarely, and honestly don't care who listens or who doesn't.
If you think 9-11 was bad, if you think 4-16 was bad......... you got your collective heads buried firmly where the Ts' want em'...
Would you be responding "oh don't worry bout us, we got professionals roving now" if it was your child who was murdered? Listen, Listen VERY CLOSELY......... Your Uniformed Officer is NO WHERE NEAR the MATCH of a Train Professional in my definition. I'm not blaming local L/E, not at all, if you ask them, they will have to if pressed admit to you that THEY ARE NOT PREPARED for these things... And, as far as avoidable? Perhaps not the first casualties, thats life in the real world my friend, but way less? ABSOLUTLY!! ( I suggest you do a little research in ref: Definition of an Armed/Skilled and Field Experienced Professional VS. very excellent Law Enforcement in that area. Again, no disparagement to LE, but the last time I watched (and not from your area) a bunch of police offers try and shoot under duress, they couldnt hit and 8in plate at 10 ft. < If that doesn't say it.........I don't know what does?
Again, I hope you will wait for the second part of this, as I believe it will shed a light on what my FULL INTENT of this peice is, as right now, it is out of context... Deep Breath All, Lets wait for second peice, then if ya gotta beef, bring it, we'll talk, we'll learn...
If this guy was known to TWO Dr's to have MENTAL ISSUES, why didn't the "fantastic force" have intel on that? hmmm?
Best, David Woroner, President
Survival Consultants International, llc

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres. SCI at September 5, 2007 07:28 PM


Hi, VT student here writing from torgersen hall on campus. The shootings here were a tragedy, yes, but wholefully unpredictable and unpreventable. The campus here is covered by no less than 3 separate police departments (VT, Blacksburg, Montgomery) and is far safer than most campus compared to say... VCU in downtown Richmond. The students here, and on campuses across the nation, are more aware to the vulnerability of troubled students and unchecked mental issues. 4/16 will never happen again. Putting an armed guard in every hall will not prevent shooters, just confront them after the fact. We have police on campus anyways putting armed guards roving around campus, so why increase that number for a purely psychological comfort?

Stop blaming the school for what happened. Stop blaming law enforcement for not predicting the unthinkable. Stop blaming the lack of "vigilante guards" for the death toll. Stop blaming anyone but ourselves for not seeing the dangers of mentally troubled people. The answer is not putting more guns in the streets - the answer is preventing guns from reaching the hands of those who do not know how to respect it's power.

Posted by: Mark at September 5, 2007 01:39 PM


VA Tech had hundreds of armed guards on campus already.

They needed to:

Take stories of violent intimidation seriously (there were several that VA Tech ignored)

Have a lock down when a murderer is on the lose.

They did neither.

Posted by: Meme at September 4, 2007 07:06 PM


Hey Folks, I am enjoying checking in on this.
I do hope however, that you will at least give (PART 2) a read, to clarify alot of points you folks are making. I believe in a simple philosophy, "An Armed Citzenry is a Safer Republic." I do not want to send "Blackwater" to Universities. I don't want to turn Univ. L/E into roving ParaMilitary Teams.
You will read* (Christian has advised he needs to hold off until tommorow for Part 2) *that I simply place a plan that while still missing some components (and what I miss, I truly appreciate hearing from you.) < If we discuss, with dignity and respect eachother, there is a great deal of knowledge that can be put together just from this thread....After all, if you read it up to now, its gotta alot of great ideas, really haven't read any terrible ones....So, lets all sit back, take a breath and wait for the bell on ROUND 2 (Ding!!) Have a good evening and its my honor to have this forum to share w/ you my thoughts. Sincerely, D. Woroner, pres. SCI

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres. SCI at September 4, 2007 06:46 PM


Hey Folks, I am enjoying checking in on this.
I do hope however, that you will at least give (PART 2) a read, to clarify alot of points you folks are making. I believe in a simple philosophy, "An Armed Citzenry is a Safer Republic." I do not want to send "Blackwater" to Universities. I don't want to turn Univ. L/E into roving ParaMilitary Teams.
You will read* (Christian has advised he needs to hold off until tommorow for Part 2) *that I simply place a plan that while still missing some components (and what I miss, I truly appreciate hearing from you.) < If we discuss, with dignity and respect eachother, there is a great deal of knowledge that can be put together just from this thread....After all, if you read it up to now, its gotta alot of great ideas, really haven't read any terrible ones....So, lets all sit back, take a breath and wait for the bell on ROUND 2 (Ding!!) Have a good evening and its my honor to have this forum to share w/ you my thoughts. Sincerely, D. Woroner, pres. SCI

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres. SCI at September 4, 2007 06:46 PM


I'm not convinced by the argument that we need an armed security guard in every place people congregate in numbers, and we already have guards at lots of places (like symbolic court houses and legislative/executive offices and airports) where there is a history of problems.

To put some numbers of the problem, about 0.15% of murders involve 4 or more victims, which is the FBI definition of a mass murder. This are on average about two dozen deaths, in an average of no more than three incidents per year, in the entire United States. A large share of these murderers already end up dead or incarcerated for the rest of their lives, after a single mass murder incident.

There are millions of places where people gather in numbers, and hence, millions of armed guards would be required, and no armed guard can be expected to stop the first few shots fired by an active shooter.

There are cheaper alternatives that are more effective. Most importantly, establishing an early warning system so that those with a history of mental illness (e.g. both the Va. Tech shooter, the Colorado Governor's office gunman this year, and an Englewood, Colorado shooter), don't get guns (the mental health part of the background check system is broken), and do have access to mental health treatment (we routinely release mentally ill felonys from prisons without any treatment plan) that can prevent incidents. Similarly, with a fraction of the resources necessary to hire a million armed guards, you could have very intensive parole supervision of every felon at high risk of committing a violent crime. There are rare cases were mass murderers come out of nowhere, but it is often the case that a small number of very troubled people account for the vast majority of the risk.

A more prevention oriented regime wouldn't be perfect, any more than a rapid reaction regime would be, but it would produce more results for a smaller investment.

Posted by: ohwilleke at September 4, 2007 06:29 PM


> I would ask you to understand one >thing.....(needs caps)
> SURVIVAL CONSULTANTS CREATES SYSTEMS PRODUCTS
> AND DEVICES We do not hire out ourselves? I had
> my day, but thats not what we do.

OK, fine, but then why are you giving advice on
that exact topic to others? If you are an
expert, great, justify it. If you can not justify
this expertise, then abstain.

> The difference between an armed
> professional and a well intentioned, great
> citizen w/ a CCW
> (and Im all for letting students, faculty, etc legally carry.) is
> apples and oranges. I am not going to defend myself from "haphazard
> personal shots." You make your own minds up.

Fine. I will. Armed civilian vs uhm, nobody for hours at VT.. Tough one here.. Lets see, paid guy, working for his check vs civilian with life on the line.. Which one exerts more effort?
BTW, doesn't a CCW require training? a full time position does not equal "professional" behavior. Check Reason.Com for some
"Professional" behavior of SWAT teams..

> Read the second segment, and I think you might see that while I am
> STRONGLY in favor of placing armed professionals in ANY place that
> attracts large groupings, Im not in that business? What gives?
> Nobodys' paying me for this, and Im sure not gonna make any money
> off it.

Then why advocate so strenuosly?

> SCI creates systems, products and devices for
> those that go "In Harms Way"...... And our
> Motto is "Bring Em' Home Alive"

That is great. How is it relevant?

> That includes Soldiers, Students, etc. NO, i
>do not want a "police state."

Who does. Puppies are cute, too.

> But do we have to turn the Metropolitan Areas of this country

"Metropolitan Areas" is new to the discussion, and does not clarify.

> into Gaza? or any other place where people like to commit

The VT stuff was not about religion or feuds, or whatever. It was about mental illness. Not sure how this is relevant.

> mass murder before we get it? Anyone look at
> the Israelis' lately? Go to your local
> airport, and walk up to an El Al counter....
> :) Best, David Woroner, President, SCI

Ok, so "Armed Professionals" in every building prevents this?
Or is better than this? Or what? Don't really see the point.

Thanks for your time.

PS. your entire article reeks of "Paid Placement". The suggestion that paid pro's
does not solve the problem.

Follow me here, 1 guard per building. A smallish
building so he can here all gunshots. He responds
and heroically kills the bad guy. Ok. During all of this, in a typical classroom of maybe 30-50
still leaves SEVERAL minutes of shooting time.

How many dead, with the paid pro on site?
With the added bonus of many paid pros sitting around for YEARS.

I think an economic impact analysis might be in order..

Posted by: Robert at September 4, 2007 02:06 PM


well said, Mr. Woroner


oh, and folks?.....kindly stop flaming DT! It's not tech, it's entertainment with a little tech thrown in; as such, it's great escape, a little learning, a little grandstanding, a little venting.

Relax! where's the love for Christian, Ward and all our other friends who take a little time out and share some fun stuff?

Posted by: campbell at September 4, 2007 01:59 PM


Hello All,
I always appreciate the commentarys even though I may not agree with them. Thats why were here, to "get it out in the open".
I would ask you to understand one thing.....(needs caps) SURVIVAL CONSULTANTS CREATES SYSTEMS PRODUCTS AND DEVICES We do not hire out ourselves? I had my day, but thats not what we do. The difference between an armed professional and a well intentioned, great citizen w/ a CCW (and Im all for letting students, faculty, etc legally carry.) is apples and oranges. I am not going to defend myself from "haphazard personal shots." You make your own minds up.
Read the second segment, and I think you might see that while I am STRONGLY in favor of placing armed professionals in ANY place that attracts large groupings, Im not in that business? What gives? Nobodys' paying me for this, and Im sure not gonna make any money off it.
SCI creates systems, products and devices for those that go "In Harms Way"...... And our Motto is "Bring Em' Home Alive" That includes Soldiers, Students, etc. NO, i do not want a "police state." But do we have to turn the Metropolitan Areas of this country into Gaza? or any other place where people like to commit mass murder before we get it? Anyone look at the Israelis' lately? Go to your local airport, and walk up to an El Al counter.... :) Best, David Woroner, President, SCI

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres. SCI at September 4, 2007 12:31 PM


My single-action Colt .45 is no match for Cho's semi-auto Glock, but it is better than using a chair for self-defense or trying to hold a door shut in order to save the lives of my fellow students, my professor and my own.
Sadly, there was plenty of evidence that pointed to Cho's instability and violent tendencies long before the incident occurred, and as the report notes, campus officials failed to take it seriously enough to do something about it until it was too late. That doesn't necessarily mean the tragedy would have been prevented, but hopefully it has been a wake-up call for other potential similar incidents. One would have thought that Columbine drove college officials to take it seriously enough to have rules in place to remove students that show potential violent tendencies.Clearly, Cho's prior actions and writings pointed to trouble ahead.

Posted by: j house at September 4, 2007 10:48 AM


Society just needs to come to the solemn realization that tragedies like this are inherently unpreventable, and that suicidal maniacs are going to carry out kamikaze acts despite any kind of feel-good preventative measure. Just like those silly ADT security commercials where the defenseless housewife is home alone and the would-be criminal is scared off by an alarm or sign. In real life, the police would show up just like on TV, only after people are dead - like in Virginia. If we are willing to put limits on the ability for students to carry weapons for self protection, then we have to be willing to live with the consequences.

Posted by: C. Foskey at September 4, 2007 10:23 AM


Most college campuses have regulations today banning students from possessing or carrying firearms on campus. While this seems sensible and well-intentioned, it basically leaves the law-abiding student populace completely vulnerable to this type of incident. There have already been multiple case histories where a student has stopped a rampage on campus by killing a perpetrator with a firearm that was retrieved from their car or residence on campus. Of course, police and college officials always downplay these incidents and the media ignores it...vigilante justice is not PC, nor will ever be endorsed,condoned or accepted (no matter what the outcome) by the 'armed professional' legions (which includes law enforcement as well as private security firms).
As the previous commenter mentioned, these shootings are very rare incidents and putting security personnel in every building on every college campus in the U.S. is totally unnnecessary and unrealistic. An 'armed proffessional' would not have prevented the V-Tech tragedy, but it is possible it could have reduced the number of fatalities.
David W. does have a good point about having an action plan for evacuation of a building in place and noting that 'hunkering down' is probably the worst thing that one can do when a rampage shooting is underway.
I don't expect the ACLU will come to defend the fundamental right to possess a firearm in one's home in order to defend themselves from nuts like Cho...however, they will make heavy investments in time and resources to ensure your child has the right to display a 'bong hits for Jesus' banner on campus.
Thank goodness they have their priorities in order when it comes to the defense of our Bill of Rights.

Posted by: j house at September 4, 2007 08:54 AM


oh, nice. I just checked the website. this guy was coast guard. give me a break. nice porn stache guy....

Posted by: Hubris Sonic at September 4, 2007 08:36 AM


oh, please.

Paramilitarizing the campus cops is not the answer. Nice fear mongering, perhaps you would like to leave a business card Mr Tough Guy bad ass.

This is one event. Made all the more 'shocking' by the 24 hour a day coverage and breathless news breaks. How many of these have we had in a decade? How many colleges are there? Feh...

Be Afraid! Be Afraid! instead of providing and real alternatives to suffering another VATech this second rate business promotion piece is just another example of the sorry assed state of defensetech...

Posted by: Hubris Sonic at September 4, 2007 08:33 AM


I have trouble seeing what the benefit of an "armed professional" is over an armed civilian, especially if the sole purpose of the armed professional is to provide an immediate response to the laughably unlikely situation of a school shooting. If you're concerned about having a gun in the right place at the right time, then put that gun in the hands of a student who has spent the time to obtain a conceal carry license. Allow students to carry on campus, and you increase school safety without any cost to the college or the government.

There's no guarantee that allowing concealed firearms on campus would have prevented or mitigated the tragedy on VT. But given that there is no evidence that conceal carry decreases safety, and plenty of evidence that conceal carry has saved lived, it should be allowed on college campuses.

Posted by: Kevin at September 4, 2007 07:51 AM


...armed professional engages...
...should have an armed professional within...
...security agent/retired law enforcement/active duty law enforcement officer...
...armed professional should be located...
...director of security is then forced...
...would gladly accept these positions...
...to assist in keeping people safer...

Perhaps "David Woroner who is the head honcho with Survival Consultants International" is a bit biased?

We are unable to defend ourselves? We must have the owners of all venues pay for armed gaurds? And then pass the costs along?

And last your first paragraph is somewhat baffling. Is private armed security "the future of military, law enforcement and national security"?!?

I am not saying that paid for security is bad.

Posted by: Robert at September 4, 2007 07:26 AM


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