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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Axe: Disband the Air Force!

USAF logo.jpg

Fed up with unnecessary gold-plated fighter jet programs, the service’s impatience with counter-insurgency and its anti-China rhetoric, back in August I proposed the disbanding of the U.S. Air Force. The air service’s missions could be folded into the Army, Navy and Marine Corps without any loss in national power -- and we’d benefit from cuts to Pentagon overhead.

Now Robert Farley over at The American Prospect has taken up the cause in a new piece, “Abolish the Air Force.” To complement the piece, Farley has solicited input from a number of bloggers, including yours truly.

“Does the United States Air Force fit into the post–September 11 world, a world in which the military mission of U.S. forces focuses more on counterterrorism and counterinsurgency?” Farley asks:

Not very well. Even the new counterinsurgency manual authored in part by Gen. David H. Petraeus, specifically notes that the excessive use of airpower in counterinsurgency conflict can lead to disaster.

In response, the Air Force has gone on the defensive. In September 2006, Maj. Gen. Charles Dunlap Jr. published a long article in Armed Forces Journal denouncing “boots on the ground zealots,” and insisting that airpower can solve the most important problems associated with counterinsurgency. The Air Force also recently published its own counterinsurgency manual elaborating on these claims. A recent op-ed by Maj. Gen. Dunlap called on the United States to “think creatively” about airpower and counterinsurgency -- and proposed striking Iranian oil facilities.

“Striking Iranian oil facilities?” That’s exactly the kind of bone-headed chest-thumping that has made the Air Force a liability to U.S. diplomacy, as I explained in my reply to Farley’s piece:

In September Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne brazenly undermined years of careful diplomacy aimed at heading off an unnecessary war with China -- all in the name of defending the service’s latest Cold War-style fighter jet.

Defense experts had proposed cutting the planned 1,800-unit production run of the $100-million F-35 light fighter, a plane originally justified to Congress on the grounds that it would cost less than the current $50-million F-16. The F-35 program’s $300-billion budget would be better invested elsewhere, the argument went. But Wynne rejected the proposal: “How big do you think China is?” he said.

As if a fleet of short-range fighters would make any difference if the United States went to war with China. Does Wynne honestly believe that we’ll somehow find ourselves holding territory in China from which to operate these aircraft? Does he really anticipate a ground war on the Chinese mainland?

Of course not. The idea is sheer lunacy. (You think the occupation of Iraq is expensive and bloody? Imagine the occupation of China!) Wynne’s statement was pure rhetoric.

But in the world of diplomacy, rhetoric matters. Note the care with which Navy and Marine Corps leaders have approached China in recent years. Since the low point in U.S.-China relations in the aftermath of the 2001 collision between a Navy patrol plane and a Chinese fighter, our sea services have taken the lead in reaching out to the communist state and industrial powerhouse. Admiral William Fallon, who organized the first exchange of port visits in years and plotted out joint exercises with Chinese forces, has steadfastly avoided painting China as a prospective enemy. And Marine general James Mattis said in Washington this year that China should be a partner, not an enemy – and that we’d best be conscious of the way our words and attitudes influence Chinese behavior.

But to Wynne, our delicate relationship with the world’s future superpower is grist for the military-industrial lobbying machine. His dangerous characterization of China is indicative of deep cultural problems in the nation’s youngest military service. The Air Force’s top priority is buying airplanes. Don’t take it from me. Air Force general Ronald Keys said in August that the air service’s “hardest wars” weren’t in Iraq or Afghanistan, but in the halls of Congress. For the Air Force, global strategy and fighting our current low-tech wars are both secondary concerns. That’s putting the cart way before the horse.

-- David Axe

Comments

Pantera:
I seem to remomber Germany having superior numbers of fighters as well as an over abundance of 88's on the ground during that same period in question. I also seem to remember that most battles involving zeros happened over or near water with the navy and their aircraft carriers.

Bryce:
CONTRACTORS do most of what you describe, not AF personel.

Which brings to question...Do we really need a segragated defense force. If all the services have variations of the same thing why not combine all the branches and realign for task based operations?

Posted by: Bork at October 26, 2007 11:24 PM


robur,
hmmm, that's strange. I distinctly remember the US getting it's bombers getting shot down in huge number over Germany in the early stages of the war. I also seem to remember US planes being shot down by faster and more manuerverable Japanese Zeros a lot to. Perhaps the Army Air Force wasn't so great in WWII.

Posted by: Pantera at October 26, 2007 06:13 PM


Yes, fold the air farce back into the Army. It was orginally separated out on the notions that strategic bombing would cause civilian populations to lose heart and that nuclear weapons would be the (relatively) cheap solution to all future wars. Both notions have since been proven false and the USAF has by far been the most lavishly wasteful of the services. The Army Air Corps did us proud in WWII and Army Aviation has continued that excellent record. The screw-ups of the USAF are legion and legendary. Just because the USAF was mistakenly spun off doesn't mean we have to be stuck with the mistake forever. This is America; we're supposed to be better than some backward culture hidebound by tradition or sheer pigheaded interservice partisanship. And no, I didn't serve in either service.

Posted by: robur at October 26, 2007 04:10 PM


Oh good gawd. Disband this....change that. Hey the zoomies are okay. They give us a ride (sometimes) to the war zone. All I can say is this: so far in the GWOT, the Army has done the bulk of the fighting, the work, and the security. This isn't to say other branches don't chip in, but most of the "airforce" I saw over there were Apaches, Chinnooks, and Blackhawks.

Posted by: SFC MAC at October 26, 2007 03:12 PM


Bottom line,Like my comments or not. The Air Power Domminance has made the USA what it is today. I believe Air Power is the only way to fight. In the long run it saves American lives. The Army or Marines fighting on the ground only ends up killing American boys by the thousands. We would have been further ahead in dollars, american lives, and world esteem had we only used our airforce to make our point and returned home, promising to return again should there be another justifiable reason. We won the war in the air and on the sea, we're losing it on the ground.

Posted by: Joe at October 26, 2007 10:03 AM


Why was this ridiculous article posted on Defense Tech in the first place? It isn't as if anybody with any sense would take it seriously.

Posted by: Mac at October 26, 2007 08:59 AM


Brian,

Everyone on this thread appreciates your intelligent comments. Thank you for all the deep insight that you have provided us.

Best wishes.

Posted by: Timmay at October 25, 2007 11:35 PM


"Ah, interesting. Please tell me, where are these "soviet-built fighter" coming from? I wasn't aware that either the Taliban or the 6347 sub-factions in Iraq had an air force of their own."

No, because our Air Force shot down every hostile Iraqi fighter that dared get off the ground. You can't just come in at the end and say "oh, well, they don't have any planes now". Of course they don't have any planes now. They all got shot down. They don't have any tanks now, either. Does that mean the Abrams is useless?

Timmay: I don't care if China is so US-friendly that they give all Americans free blowjobs just because we're Americans. They aren't necessarily going to stay that way. Forgive me if I'm a suspicious bastard who doesn't trust foreign nations with competing special interests just because they say "trust us". By your own words, its 1.3 billion people who are going through massive cultural, social, and economic changes. You really think that wherever they end up AFTER those changes might not be a place very friendly to us? China is like a bear rooting through your garbage. Will the bear try to attack? Will it go away? No one can say for certain. But I'd like to have something more than a pointed stick, just in case.

Posted by: Brian at October 25, 2007 10:40 PM


yeah what the hell, why not? Let's stick the navy in the army while we're at it. Just stick 'em all together and give it a nazified commie name like MotherHomeLand Mega Force.

Posted by: Juancho at October 25, 2007 10:05 PM


Being an Army officer and having been attached to an Air Force unit at one time, I will tell you first hand that if you thing we shouldn't have an Air Force then you don't understand what the Air Force does. Sure, they fly planes, but the Army actually has more aircraft and aviators (including mself) then the Air Force, and flying jets isn't their main focus.

Any one visited Colorado Springs?!? Check out the site for Schriever Air Base. The AF runs the GPS system, montiors 10,000 objects in orbit, operates our commo equipment for all military forces, operates the best SAR team in the world, support all intel agencies and operates in a corporate-like efficency and environment many of the services envy.

There is no way to join them together...that is why they split in he first place. Stop thinking the Air Force is just a bunch of flyboys who need speed and shiny new planes. The USAF is still relevant and is only going through growing pains as the Army, Marines, and everyone is going through with the current mission.

Posted by: Bryce at October 25, 2007 07:31 PM


If we are going to consider such a broad brush and indeed extraordinarily unlikely and difficult measure as Axe suggests, I should like to submit that rather than eliminating the Air Force and redistributing its mission set amongst the other services, we consider a complete unification of the services. Just as many Air Force missions could be redistributed, the same could be said of redundancies between the Marines and the Army Rangers, or SEALS and SF. Yes each element brings unique capabilities to the table, but the amount of redundancy is simply excruciating, not to mention expensive. Why, for example, must we have completely separate training and operations facilities for AF and Navy fighter pilots, or AF and Army rotary wing pilots. Could AF pilots not learn to take off and land from an air craft carrier?
Yes I understand the difficulties inherent in such a force unification proposal, but there is something to be said for interoperability. Cultural differences between the services aside (that is another whole can of worms), I could envision a unified air power made up of multi-mission capable pilots. When serving on ship they would wear the Navy uniform, when CONUS or fixed facility, the Air Force blues, when at Balad, Army flight suits. A similar tact might be successful for a variety of other career fields - combining Army Signal with AF Comm, Navy Seabees and Army Engineers, a unified medical command. Specialties unique to each of the services would remain in an expanded MOS catalog, so that Nuclear Engineers for example would almost assuredly spend the majority of time in Navy positions, while fixed wing bomber pilots would likely rarely see an Army unit.
This proposition would likely cause a huge number of problems in the short to mid term, but it makes far more sense than dismantling USAF.

Posted by: IvyLeagueGrunt at October 25, 2007 06:51 PM


The USAF might (just might) have more friendly fire accidents because they are actually flying in combat were there are 2 sides (interesting idea). I think the Army and USMC should defiantly be left alone and be allowed to do their mission, even though right now it is the same dang one. The USAF is key to winning any war we might ever fight in the future. The Army deals with the guys on the ground, and the USAF blows the crap out of the ones in the air, then proceeds to blow the crap out of the enemy ground forces.

If you look back though history you realize that only recently have we been using "smart bombs" which accounts for why the USAF didn't do that much damage per ton of bombs dropped in past years.

just like 22lr has been saying, there is a reason it isn't the Army Air Corp, anymore. It has a lot to do with the fact that it just works better like it is.

Posted by: MSGT at October 25, 2007 05:14 PM


Any nation that has a capability to take on the USA must be treated as a treat. Planes must be made, and we must stay one step ahead of them. When you mention the fact that China is that nation, you really have to. Deterance is a good weapon, but you must have force to back it up.

Posted by: 22lr at October 25, 2007 04:17 PM


Just some thoughts on the mini-Chinese debate that is going on within this thread:

The Chinese aren't inherently evil, sorry. I know that's a nice, clean, simple way of thinking of those 1.3+ BILLION people, but I'd argue that it might not be entirely accurate. Just like us, China is a nation of many different languages, customs, and ethnicities. Just as we're not 300 million fat, stupid, war-loving Yankees, China is not a 1.3+ billion person conspiracy secretly plotting to take over the world and destroy America in the process. In fact, Chinese people are *much* more pro-American than soviet citizens were during the Cold War, which shows you how much the Chinese government is investing in a psychological "us versus them" campaign as a prelude to armed conflict.

Truth be told, the Chinese central government has the (impossibly?) large task of holding that entire population together during a break-neck cultural/spiritual/societal/economic boom delayed by the Mao-induced disasters. Just as dropping someone from the 1400's into the middle of modern day New York might result in some situational tensions, the same is to be expected when you expose such a large nation of people to such extraordinary changes as China has witnessed over the last thirty years.

During the Civil War period of national instability, our government did things that, today, we would deem egregiously bad ... but they were done so that our nation would survive and blossom into what it is now - an example of stability and prosperity for the world. This sort of thing still happens, and not just in America.

Some people in our nation really need to put aside their snap judgments of other nations' actions and at least *attempt* to understand some of the background in which those actions occur.

Things like China's aggressive stance on Taiwan, their theft/infringement of [not just military] technologies, or even the awful events in Tiananmen Square have more to them than the Chinese government being "a secretive, repressive regime".

Let's not make an enemy where we don't need one.

Posted by: Timmay at October 25, 2007 03:35 PM


glover said:
Neither the North Vietnamese nor the many partisan factions in Iraq have anything close to the U.S. aviation inventory, yet in both have defeated American forces in every sense that really matters. In each case this was inevitable, because not even tens of billions of dollars in technology can compensate for a brain-dead "strategy".

It seems that the North Vietnamese and the factions in Iraq dont have anything close to the U.S. Naval inventory either, should we disband the Navy as well? NV and the Iraqi insurgents cant come close to the US's Army and Marine inventory, shall those be merged into something else as well? The US's failure's in SEA and SWA have nothing to do with the existance or nonexistance of the USAF. Like I said before if you want to disband/merge the AF you need to examine all the missions and capabilities that the AF has and then show how they can be done better by another service, Be sure that yuo take into account not only the current conflict, but potential conflicts for the next 40 years.

Posted by: NTV at October 25, 2007 02:59 PM


"Those MRAP vehicles and extra body armor aren't going to do you any damn good when a soviet-built fighter drops a 2000 lb bomb on your head. You can't even BEGIN to do your job until after the AF guys have done theirs."

Ah, interesting. Please tell me, where are these "soviet-built fighter" coming from? I wasn't aware that either the Taliban or the 6347 sub-factions in Iraq had an air force of their own.

Posted by: sglover at October 25, 2007 02:46 PM


"Sounds to me like this guy is a real tool! To say that we are irrelevant, is a joke. If there was no Airforce to protect the sky's we would all be in a mess of danger. One thing you nee dto learn buddy is to never mess with a soldier or their family! If it weren't for them you wouldn't be here!"

Lots of emotion, little insight, and a pointed refusal to even engage with any of Axe' arguments. Seems to be a lot of that among the folks who insist that we simply *must* have an Air Force.

Anyway, in the last **60** years, the U.S. has been in precisely ONE conflict in which the other side had an air force that was capable of doing anything more than harassment. That was in Korea, more than **50** years ago.

Neither the North Vietnamese nor the many partisan factions in Iraq have anything close to the U.S. aviation inventory, yet in both have defeated American forces in every sense that really matters. In each case this was inevitable, because not even tens of billions of dollars in technology can compensate for a brain-dead "strategy".

Posted by: sglover at October 25, 2007 02:42 PM


gonoles74 --
Thanks for answering my arguments in some detail. I don't really have time to respond at the length that your comment deserves, but let me just quickly hit a couple of points.

"1) The Air Force is not redundant as described by others. The Army is primarily helicopter based which has been proven to be susceptible to such relatively low tech threats as AK-47s and RPGs. That kind of force can't sustain any type of significant long range reach. The Navy certainly does have a potent air force of its own but where is the ability to reach out long distances (airlift/global strike) and the ability to sustain that pressure since Navy aircraft don't loiter as long or carry as heavy a payload?"

But you're really talking about the Army and Navy as they've evolved **with the Air Force as a separate bureaucratic player**. For instance, you can hardly blame the Army for relying on helicopters, when that is a direct consequence of one of the more famous inter-service turf battles of the last half-century.

"2) FCS? DDX? EFV? All of these projects have been in the works for 20 years or more and examples of "circuses" that may never come to fruition...it's not just the Air Force."

I think I pretty much responded to this objection in my previous comment.

"3) The Air Force may have gotten its start from strategic bombing, but it has morphed completely since then. It's about dominance across the entire spectrum of air and space, from strat bombing to intel to airlift. Roll the Air Force into the Army, the Navy, whoever, I don't care. The fact is SOMEBODY will still have to do these missions."

Well, yeah, exactly. Again -- this seems to elude a good fraction of the participants in this thread -- it's not like anybody's talking about doing away with **airplanes**. The question is, why is an entire armed service and its attendant bureaucracy necessary? Particularly when the bread and butter of said service, aviation, is performed perfectly well by the other services?

Posted by: sglover at October 25, 2007 02:30 PM


USMC Steve:

You're full of it.

Those MRAP vehicles and extra body armor aren't going to do you any damn good when a soviet-built fighter drops a 2000 lb bomb on your head. You can't even BEGIN to do your job until after the AF guys have done theirs.

The best argument FOR the Air Force is that half the ground pounders out there don't think they need them anymore. Maybe you should ask the Iraqi pilots in Gulf War I and II what they thought of our aviators -- considering they found that their planes lasted longer if they just left them on the runway instead of trying to combat USAF pilots.

Posted by: Brian at October 25, 2007 01:23 PM


Sounds to me like this guy is a real tool! To say that we are irrelevant, is a joke. If there was no Airforce to protect the sky's we would all be in a mess of danger. One thing you nee dto learn buddy is to never mess with a soldier or their family! If it weren't for them you wouldn't be here!

Posted by: Proud Airforce Wife at October 25, 2007 01:17 PM


22ar, the US AIR FORCE did exactly the same thing in Korea and Vietnam that the Army Air Forces did in WW2 as regards strategic bombardment, and lost a crapload of aircraft in doing it. They learned nothing nor did they innovate or adapt to the wars they found themselves in. Further proof that they need to have some adult leadership. Further, in the two Gulf wars, A-10 pilots alone participated in 14, count them 14, fratricidal incidents. That is more than all Navy and Marine aviators COMBINED in the two wars. If I needed to call in tac air and the zoomies were all that were available, I would readily do without. I would be more likely to stay alive that way, and lots of Marines feel the same way, as well as some of my Army comrades.

Posted by: USMC Steve at October 25, 2007 01:17 PM


First sentence should read "the economic INTERESTS we share."

Posted by: Brian at October 25, 2007 01:11 PM


The air force is pretty much redundant in today's world. They cost roughly 40 percent of the defense budget, and less than 5000 of them are intended to go in harms way. We could have bought a hell of a lot of body armor or better MRAP vehicles for what one of their B-2 flying Edsels cost. As an example, the entire operating budget of the Marine Corps is less than the cost of one of those waddling cows, and we have wrought a whole lot more death and destruction than the air force has in the last three years. Other than those roles set aside for the zoomies in the Key West agreement, there is nothing they can do that Naval Aviation could not do better if allowed the resources and the missions they cannot perform. Regardless of the assertions of the air force pep squad, they have yet to perform any mission that was all that vital to a war effort, and we could still have won any war without them, albeit losing more people in doing so. WW2 proved that, in that the daylight "precision" bombing campaign didn't do more than inconvenience the German war machine. It certainly didn't cripple them up. And then there is the matter of air force fratricide. Frankly, the zoomies regard anything other than sniping other aircraft with high speed low drag missiles as being beneath them. They don't like to do ground support, and they DO NOT do it as well as Navy and Marine aviators do. The 21st century terrorism influenced world does not make the air force any more useful, but less. You cannot hold shit with an airplane. It takes infantry. For further proof of their lack of military skills I would suggest you visit an air force base. Civilians in a camo suit is what they are for the most part.

Posted by: USMC Steve at October 25, 2007 01:10 PM


J house:

It's true that it is currently in China's best interest to keep a friendly relationship with the US. A large part of this is the economic we share. However, economic interests change. I used to practice civil law, and have seen enough business deals go south that I wouldn't want to rely solely upon that. In 10 years, we may want to change our business dealings with China. It may be in our best interest to reduce our trade with them. There may be an oil crisis and we may have to stop buying so much cheap chinese crap. We PROBABLY won't go to war with China at any time in the next 50 years. But if we take the military option completely off the table, all we're left with is our economic ties. And it may not be in our best interest to maintain those ties as they currently exist.

I am not some crazy guy who is counting down the days until we bomb China. But there are very real problems with them that will need to be resolved (one way or another) at some point in the future. It's always best to negotiate from a position of strength.

The US Air Force gives us the luxury of fighting insurgencies. It allows us to operate basically as we please, without fear of enemy aircraft. The US Navy allows us to do the same, projecting power into any corner of the globe. Just because our AEGIS cruisers haven't had to shoot anything in a while doesn't mean that they aren't valuable. And just because our F-22s will have no real challengers doesn't mean they aren't worth every cent.

Posted by: Brian at October 25, 2007 01:09 PM


Your answer: Disband The Air Force

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! Wrong!

Guess again.

What service were you in?

Posted by: ELP at October 25, 2007 11:32 AM


If anyone thinks the Air Force is irrelevant, just go back to 2001/2002 in Afghanistan. The novel use of strategic air power/PGMs combined with Special Forces A teams on the ground(granted we had air supremacy from day 1) helped decimate Taliban and arab muj forces, in a period of weeks. It would have been even more effective if the US had bombed on 9/12th (better, in 1999), but that's politics.
Without the use of the Air Force strategic power and CAS in Iraq, there would have been far,far more friendly casualties on the ground the last 4 years.
We fortunately, on occasion, have the means to call in a strike on an enemy position without the need for a ground-based assault..for example, the AMZ strike. Who can argue that doesn't save American lives?
Unfortunately, we have solidified the mentalities of the leaders of the three branches to such an extent that it would be difficult and counterproductive to roll this branch into to Army or Navy.

Posted by: j house at October 25, 2007 10:17 AM


Brian,

China does not want a war with the US not only because it would lose, but because it would be killing the golden goose and make no strategic sense. The only real beef China has with the US is Taiwan (not Tibet, for sure) and ultimate dominance of the S. China Sea, where their future energy needs are stored.
China knows it will be able to get its way with Taiwan down the road, and it won't require force, only the threat of force.
The Chinese leaders know that strengthening their military capabilities is needed to project this threat, even if they are far below parity with the US. They are counting on a weak and pliable Taiwanese leader down the road and a crisis that will allow them to leverage their economic might with the US.
Our leaders will determine Taiwan isn't worth it, which will further embolden China to take Malaysian, Bruneian, Vietnamese and Indonesian oil assets in the China Sea within the next 20 yrs.
The Russian bear has no dog in this fight, but it will seek advantage elsewhere while we deal with a China that in the first time in its history, must look beyond China to support itself with energy and raw materials.

Posted by: j house at October 25, 2007 09:52 AM


Re: "Since the low point in U.S.-China relations in the aftermath of the 2001 collision between a Navy patrol plane and a Chinese fighter, our sea services have taken the lead in reaching out to the communist state and industrial powerhouse"

Infusing Ameican dollars into Communist countries only serves to help prop up the totalitarian regimes. If anyone thinks that giving them a dose of capitalism will make a difference, the fact that China is still hostile to the West, engaging in military and political deals with Putin, and cracking down on free speech and dissent, should cast away all doubt.

Posted by: SFC MAC at October 25, 2007 09:46 AM


The kind of mentality that suggests that striking Iranian oil facilities is going to bend them to our will is incredibly short-sighted and is of the era of 'bomb them back to the stone age'.
Not only would it further negatively impact the stability of the price of oil, but it would affect Iran in a way that would be completely counterproductive to our national interests, in terms of the long-term economic stability of that country. Gee, while were at it, why not destroy their electrical generating capacity, their dams, bridges and water pumping stations?
When will our national and military leaders understand that destroying the modern infrastructure of a foe does not get us where we want to be in the long-term?
If the US wants to disrupt Iran's nuclear program for several years or more, there are far more limited military and covert means to do that.
If the US Air Force's leaders suggest that this is the best use of this branch of our armed forces, they need to reire earlier rather than later.

Posted by: j house at October 25, 2007 09:30 AM


Solomon:
Axe is not just calling for a change in CULTURE, but the elimination of an extraordinarily capable and useful branch of the military. In eliminating the AF and somehow redistributing its assets, and missions, to other services it is very likely that we would erode National Defense Capabilities. Ask yourself, what expertise do the Army, Marines, and Navy bring to the table to direct most of the AF missions and asserts? Sure they know and understand CAS, and a little bit of airlift, but what about Global Strike? What about long range ISR missions? ICBM's? Space Operation? And the list goes on. If people really want to break up the AF then they need to go through all the missions and assets of the AF and explain how, and why another service can do them better. Such an assessment needs to have not only address current conflicts, but long term threats as well. The AF may have leadership problems currently, but that hardly is a reason to terminate the service.

Posted by: NTV at October 25, 2007 08:43 AM


sglover,

To answer your points:

1) The Air Force is not redundant as described by others. The Army is primarily helicopter based which has been proven to be susceptible to such relatively low tech threats as AK-47s and RPGs. That kind of force can't sustain any type of significant long range reach. The Navy certainly does have a potent air force of its own but where is the ability to reach out long distances (airlift/global strike) and the ability to sustain that pressure since Navy aircraft don't loiter as long or carry as heavy a payload?

2) FCS? DDX? EFV? All of these projects have been in the works for 20 years or more and examples of "circuses" that may never come to fruition...it's not just the Air Force. On the other hand, there have been great successes from the Air Force such as UAV development, stealth technology, etc. And just because one program doesn't work completely, that doesn't mean some part of the program can't be used elsewhere to improve the military's way of doing business. The Army's Future Warrior system that came about in the mid 90's was a concept that hasn't worked, yet we are seeing aspects of that system coming to fruition in combat w/ Blue Force tracker systems, helmet mounted cams, etc.

3) The Air Force may have gotten its start from strategic bombing, but it has morphed completely since then. It's about dominance across the entire spectrum of air and space, from strat bombing to intel to airlift. Roll the Air Force into the Army, the Navy, whoever, I don't care. The fact is SOMEBODY will still have to do these missions. SOMEBODY will have to fly the bombers, the UAVs, the satellites, etc. These missions will not go away...and neither will the fuel costs.

Axe brought up the points about the Air Force not fitting in today's insurgency/COIN missions. He used the Air Force's expensive F-35 program as an example along w/ Petraeus' comments about excessive airpower being a detriment to the COIN fight. BTW, who's airpower was Petraeus referring to...Army? Navy? Marine? Air Force? I'm also willing to bet, just like excessive airpower, excessive use of ground-based or sea-based firepower will cause a COIN disaster as well.

Axe also adds in the comment from General Keys and his description of the budget fights in Congress. That comment can be viewed as either a negative or a positive. Axe most definitely uses it in a negative light, but it can mean the Air Force, and the US military in general, has been so successful in its mission the only real fights we have are with each other. It's up to each individual person to determine how they view such comments.

Going back to the programs I listed in my original post, all of them are "gold-plated" and don't fit into the current COIN focus very well, but Axe only focuses on the Air Force's "gold-plated" program. Every single one of our military service's has a mission(s) or program(s) that do not fit into the current COIN fight. I don't have a problem with that. Part of each service should be focused on potential future conflicts and should be pushing programs that they think will help in the future fight. Like many others, I believe focusing on the now will leave you short for the future.

Posted by: gonoles74 at October 25, 2007 06:21 AM


Why not break out the tactical support role from the airforce. no more of this helicopter crap for support. Let the army run the A-10's and gunships.

And while we're at it, break out the strategic transport as a seperate branch. It would include former airforce intra theater transports and naval fast lift ships. And would rely more on guard, and non military personel during push times.

Posted by: aaron at October 25, 2007 03:15 AM


One more point. If we posit that social organizations or cultures are both enabled and formed by technology -- the printing press, radio, TV, etc. -- then the services may need to evolve to fit new tech. Much has been made of how "network centric warfare" enables the warfighter, or the RMA. Less has been said about how it might affect a service bureaucracy.

In commerce, the Internet has enabled disintermediation: the elimination of middlemen. For music, you get iTunes, for books, Amazon, and the traditional intermediaries -- record and book stores -- evolve, or die.

We're probably never going to be able to buy weapons the way we buy music, or books, but at some point you've got to wonder what disintermediation means for service bureaucracies. Like I said before, task forces become more important than divisions, much less regional commands.

I'm not saying that we can wage war by flash mob -- although, the folks over at Global Guerrillas, or 4/5GW adherents, might not have a problem with that. I'm wondering what disintermediation portends for combined operations.

Maybe network centric warfare means that a traditional service bureaucracy has to be more of a capability conduit than an end in itself. Maybe an air force, navy or army's job is to push capability down a funnel, and let the end users point the narrow end at the enemy. Maybe networking technology should simplify that process, rather than re-complicate it.

Maybe it's not so much a question of abolishing the USAF, as streamlining it. Maybe grunts should be able to dial up CAS the way you buy music or books on the Internet -- point, and click. [Assuming, of course, they have the blue on blue and collateral damage angles covered.]

Don't know; can't say. If anyone's got a better handle on it, sound off.

Posted by: demophilus at October 25, 2007 01:35 AM


If your only goal is to re-prioritize the USAF assets, rolling them into the Army isn't going to do it. The Army's not any better at keeping its priorities straight than USAF; I call Comanche, FCS, XM8, etc as evidence. If you want the USAF run right, lobby for A-10 and C-17 drivers for the top spots.

Posted by: Moose at October 25, 2007 12:20 AM


You gotta think of feasibility. Trying to combine several already created bureaucracies is close to impossible. We've seen it in the failed Unified Medical Command (which would have been great if it happened). There are way too many people defending their jobs.

As for getting rid of the USAF completely, that's really extreme and the least feasible thing to do with the Air Force. I do agree if you reallocate air assets across several services we can still have a very formidable air power. But getting from point A to point B is more than just pointing where point B is. You have to have a means of getting to point B. The transition for what Axe is proposing will be a very painful one. The backlash would be great and we may end up with a "Revolt of the Generals".

Something that has glimmer of possibility is rolling the USAF back into the Dep of the Army (2 militaries under 1 dept, like the Dep of the Navy). And not as a subordinate service (the Commandant of the USMC does NOT report the Chief on Naval Operations). That way you cut the number of bureaucrats that's above military organization, and under a single Secretary we can have single vision of the AirLand sphere of war. Less fighting on who gets to do what mission (just do the mission!). Though, this proposition will also have an uphill battle to succeed. With Axe's proposal you'll have personnel and bureaucrats defending their jobs, with this you'll only have bureaucrats defending their positions (less people to fight). Nonetheless, you'll still have significant number of people against you.

A third proposal would be to evolve the Air Force out of TacAir (and to a degree, air superiority) and have it strictly concentrate on strategic matters. Have the majority of assets and personnel of TacAir and air superiority transferred to the other services, and expand the remaining parts (space, SIGINT, strategic bombers, inter-theater airlift, cyberspace, etc). Dilute the fighter mafia across several services to empower the non-fighter community within the USAF and make them the dominant component. There will be no problem with aging airlifters and tankers if the Generalship is composed of more personnel from those communities.

Posted by: G at October 24, 2007 11:18 PM


Anyone who refuses to see the myopic behavior that Air Force officials have engaged in is being naive. The call is for a CULTURE change not a reduction in National Defense Capabilities. To confuse the two is to be dishonest in your approach to this conversation. Blind "worship" at the alter of technology is an underlying weakness in the American way of war. The Air Force is the most symbolic representative of this weakness among our armed forces. The refusal of many to recognize this is the ability of those same individuals to "willfully suspend disbelief." Nuff said.

Posted by: Solomon at October 24, 2007 11:13 PM


Why not give the budget authority to OSD alone and take it away from the services? That would end the budgetary infighting. Of course that would have meant that Rumsfeld's budget would have been fully in effect and stuff like body armor and MRAP would have been toast. In fact, didn't Rumsfeld consider canning the Air Force during the QDR?

To be honest, I have no idea why David Axe is so insistent on trashing the Air Force. I think the problem is that the Air Force and airpower is like oxygen, you don't think about it until you need it -- aka you don't have it.

The services are aligned to organize, train and equip across domains that they own primary competency: Army - land, Navy - sea and Air Force - sky. The services only have activities in other domains when they directly augment that domain. For example, Army helicopters supporting ground forces, or Air Force combat controllers opening and operating landing zones. I'm not sure where the Marines fit in this schema except perhaps to permit the Navy to access littorals (not like that's happening in Iraq).

Axe fails to permit to allow that there is value in domain-based services. Just because a platoon can operate a small UAV doesn't mean they know how to conduct interdiction nor would the Army necessarily allow UAV missions beyond CAS and close-range recon. Another challenge to competent airpower (and space power) with the Army structure is that the Army is extremely doctrinally inflexible.

Posted by: doc75 at October 24, 2007 10:55 PM


Dave's at it again, playing the provocateur. It's pretty entertaining, but it tends to bring more heat than light.

Separation of powers has served Americans pretty well: Federal vs. state, executive vs. legislature vs. judiciary (vs. press...). Separation of powers prevents a single point failure from spreading. It's a question of redundant, backup systems. Abandoning that for a bigger Army or Navy is comical. What does SNAFU mean?

The Army had its shot at running air superiority before WW I and II. The Big Green Machine failed, both times. We entered both wars without a single world class fighter beyond the prototype stage. We entered WW II without a firm foundation in emerging fighter tactics, despite lessons learned by Americans fighting in China and Spain.

The solution to an unresponsive bureaucracy is not to create a bigger, more ungainly one somewhere else. Naw, this story's more a canard, a stalking horse for more reasonable reforms.

What those might be is harder to say, but ohwilleke's onto an interesting tack: allocating air assets to and integrating them with the end users. There's been some discussion of swarming and network warfare as part and parcel of the RMA. You don't use divisions where brigades are more nimble, or separate services where task forces might do the job better.

Maybe ALL the services should be funding, training and procurement conduits for the creation of inter-service task forces, and/or networks. Maybe the sister services should continue their focus on their traditional spheres of responsibility -- air, land, sea, and expeditionary warfare, primarily from the sea -- but the shots should be called by the end users.

The Maginot Line is frequently cited as a failure of fixed fortifications, but it was just as much a failure of fixed doctrine. Maybe monolithic services are a potential doctrinal failure of similar proportions. Maybe the push to close the sensor/shooter cycle or OODA loop favors a task force with direct control over its assets, rather than a chain of bureaucracies.

It's an interesting idea. I can think of at least two places we might test it.

But, eliminating the Air Force? Please. That's a PR stunt.

Posted by: demophilus at October 24, 2007 07:25 PM


Anyone who feels the need to disband one an entire military service, even if it means blending it into another is completely ignorant and naieve. If you think that the world is going to stay on the current course for any length of time, any more than just a few years, you need to read a history book. There are numerous places that could expolde into war at any moment. India/Pakistan, Isreal/Middle East, North Korea, Venezuela, and even China. All it takes is one trigger to set it off. Why take the risk of disbanding one of the most effective battle forces in history only to be caught off guard. Strategic bombing is NOT outdated, it is just not needed at the moment. WWII is a perfect example. The country was caught off guard. We even had WARNING that problems were brewing, and we weren't fully prepared. The so-called grandiose projects are what enable us to stay on top. Why don't we just stop trying to make any technological innovation, sit on our asses and let the rest of the world catch up. If you maintain the worlds best military, you can prevent major world wars, and you can't do that without the Air Force.

Posted by: fighterpilot317 at October 24, 2007 06:50 PM


FINALLY!!!! You've finally said what many have been thinking! The Air Force as an institution is in dire need of reform and if its "destruction" is the price to be paid then so be it. General Mosley and his ilk have rendered themselves obsolete with their bureaucratic nonsense. Attempting to circumvent UAV development by other services, flawed support missions in Iraq, flawed procurement practices and finally this misguided counter insurgency document they produced has convinced me...Either fire the top guys and rebuild the culture or destroy it and roll it into the Army. Either way the Air Force as it currently stands cannot be allowed to continue!

Posted by: Solomon at October 24, 2007 06:45 PM


Exactly who did I ‘call’ precisely what ‘names’?

This is not to say a reader might not correctly deduce (from my earlier comment) that I thought the author was offering rather simplistic observations and propositions using context-free factoids which were composed with the sophistication and logic of an adolescent....But what else could have been rightfully expected in response to such an unserious piece?

IMHO this was clearly a “throw red meat to the masses” exercise on Axe’s part -- Perhaps a bid to generate traffic to view the author’s original work?

Whatever the motive, I hope it 'worked', but the idea of doing away with the AF is hardly worth use of any of our time or bandwidth.

Posted by: SMSgt Mac at October 24, 2007 06:29 PM


All this talk about "counterinsurgency and terrorism" is shortsighted. Sure, we can trash all of our Raptors and JSFs, invest it all in MRAPs instead. Then a decade or so down the road we'll find ourselves at the mercy of conventional superpowers.

Posted by: Benjamin Fan at October 24, 2007 05:51 PM


Why should we plan for the war of tomorrow when we are fighting the war of today? How naive can one person be? While I agree the Air Force has been its own worst enemy in recent years, to promote the extreme position of disbandment is also about as dumb.

I won't waste my time arguing against the merits of continuing the use and production of aircraft initially designed over 30 years ago. Do you then also consider your 8086-based PC with an updated hard-drive comparable to the latest dual core CPUs?

And while all of the services should support joint missions, there are certain areas that only an independent air arm should be tasked with...just as some missions are ground or naval based in nature and should be handled accordingly.

If you have an ax to grind against the Air Force, at least use valid arguments. Just think where maneuver warfare would be if we used your logic and stated that tanks should still only be used to provide direct infantry support. Likely we would still be flying bi-planes as well...

Posted by: dav zaj at October 24, 2007 04:46 PM


Those opposed to eliminating the Air Force don't seem to realize that this is not about needing fewer air assets.

The problem with the Air Force is that it priorities the wrong problems as it allocates resources to R&D, procurement and training (too little transport and CAS, too many air to air fighters), and encourages other forces to make suboptimal purchases to stay out of the Air Force command structure (excessive reliance on artillery, helicopters and drones by the Army, even when fixed wing aircraft would do the job better).

The Navy has similar faults. It underinvests in high speed sea lift, littoral warfare and sea based fire support, while overinvesting in technologies like ship based cruise missiles even when long range aircraft based cruise missiles would make more sense for sea control. The Navy also systematically over invests in blue sea surface warships based far more on institutional history than bottom up need. But, the Navy's situation has been less acute, because having the Marines under its wing has encouraged it to address some land based force needs, and because its ability to use carrier based fixed wing aircraft has reduced its incentive to make inappropriate purchasing choices.

Ending the Air Force is a bureacratic move about organizing the command structure in a way that encourages R&D spending and procurement spending more in line with the U.S. military as a whole, and encouraging better coordination in training and operations. It is unlikely that any future U.S. war will be exclusively or even primarily an air war. Winning in the air is almost always a necessary but not sufficient prelude to winning on the ground. Thus, the Army doesn't have an incentive to gut necessary air to air, or strike mission resources, merely to be proportionate in how many of those resources are purchased.

It is about allocating resources between the Army and the Air Force in a manner more rational than the modified share and share alike system in place now that has not coincidentally produces comparably sized military services, due to equal representation in the decision making bodies rather than military need.

The problem is not just Major General Charles Dunlap, and Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne. Dozens have held their posts and acted the same way. If you are cast in a play as Hamlet, you're not going to play the role as someone decisive, no matter who you are personally. They are embodiments of institutional culture and bureacratic incentives that have existed for decades in the Department of Defense. When you innovate in a large complex organization like the DOD you have to make bold steps, because minor ones just get rolled back and ignored as much as possible.

The top people in any military service are almost inherently most responsive to the wants and expressed desires of their underlings. An Air Force General doesn't have Colonels in the officer's club with him at lunch moaning and groaning about the need for more cargo planes and CAS tailored forces. An Army General hears that regularly and responds with a classic "not my department" go gripe to the SecDef answer.

The procurement director for a combined Army and Air Force isn't going to build ground vehicles that don't fit on a C-130 without making a very conscious effort to do so. Want proof? Look at the draconian size constraints placed on all new ground vehicle purchases in the Marine Corps.

In the same vein, while an separate Air Force has a strong incentive to see all air assets as theater-wide assets controled by the top Air Force person around, using air traffic control as an excuse an integrated Air Force and Army is more likely to integrate different assets into the joint force at different levels of the force. Small drones might end up getting assigned to companies, helicopters to battlions, small fixed wing transports and close air support aircraft might get assigned to brigades, high altitude reconnaisance resources, bombers and jet fighters might be assigned to divisions, and C-17s and C-5s might still be managed on a worldwide basis from Dayton, Ohio. The air space might be broken up with certain alitudes over certain areas controlled by different controllers. The people operating the integrated assets would base together, train together and fight together.

Posted by: ohwilleke at October 24, 2007 04:34 PM


If we did not have air superiority, we would have the same number of casualties within the hour as we have had within the last five half-decade of war in Iraq.

Axe, love ya, mano, but disbanding the air force is the worst idea anyone has ever voiced out loud in a long time, besides the lunatics that want the Air Force to have a bake sale to buy bombers.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at October 24, 2007 04:15 PM


From the over-production of mraps to talk of cutting the jsf, the US military seems dangerously close to the old 'fighting the last war' problem. (Actually the current one of course)

Clearly Iraq is the #1 priority, and similar deployments have to be given weight. But longer-term thinking can't be ignored in this rush to get a military capable of this 'new' style war.

This means subs, carriers, f-22s, JSF - and a separate airforce with planners looking at more than immediate tactical concerns.

Posted by: ak at October 24, 2007 04:08 PM


Axe, I'm not sure why were are pretending that China and Iran are NOT our enemies?
We cannot simply ignore real future threats in the intrest of not going to war right now. Mark my words, China and iran will both be involved in future conflicts with our country, its only a matter of time.

Posted by: Jonathan at October 24, 2007 03:36 PM


The only thing worse than a military still preparing for the last war is one that thinks the current war is the last one. The likelihood of a conflict happening goes up the less prepared you are for it, I personally prefer maintaining an advantage which discourages potential opposition.

Posted by: Moose at October 24, 2007 02:45 PM


Wow, this hurts since my dad was C-47 pilot in CBI theater during WWII (then literal USAF Reserves for years), but Axe and Farley have a point. I suggest a less-extreme compromise: Keep the AF, but make it smaller and reduce its mission to homeland security (like scrambling fighters to stop intruders, intercept hijacked planes, fly radar planes, etc.), "space" missions (operate satellite killing and ABM missiles, etc.), and I suppose the ICMB force and maybe some other things. It would be mostly a sort of "aerial Coast Guard" with some other functions.
What do you think?

Posted by: Neil B. at October 24, 2007 02:44 PM


The solution of disbanding the Air Force is like using an axe to perform surgery...it's far too blunt. A reallocation of certain assets though would make sense, such as giving the Army some of the air-to-ground assets that support Army operations already such as the A-10 and Spooky gunships. That leaves the Air Force able to concentrate on the missions that it wants to.

Posted by: elijah at October 24, 2007 02:27 PM


ummmm.....would it not be more economical, faster, and easier.......to simply get rid of Major General Charles Dunlap, and Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne?

well,....duh!

Even in the Airforce, ahem, there should be some common sense, grounded, warriors to replace these semi..with.

Posted by: campbell at October 24, 2007 02:25 PM


ummmm.....would it not be more economical, faster, and easier.......to simply get rid of Major General Charles Dunlap, and Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne?

well,....duh!

Even in the Airforce, ahem, there should be some common sense, grounded, warriors to replace these semi..with.

Posted by: campbell at October 24, 2007 02:24 PM


SGlover says "It is the most redundant of any of the services, which all have their own air forces -- which themselves, last time I checked, are pretty much the equal of the air force of any other NATION."
This just isnt true, Yes the Navy and Marines have nice aircraft, but what happens when they need to stike a target more than 400 miles into defended airspace?? They both have limited tanker capability and no LO aircraft. Which will lead to a lot of brave dead Naval Aviators. How are the vaunted Navy and Marines going to get important EEOB intel. Do they have RC-135's to do that? As for Axe's arguments, they might be more credible is he realized that the Air Force could do without F-35 "Cold War Jet" whatever that means. It would be hard, but they could do it. The folks that would reeally be hardest hit by chopping the F-35 would be the vaunted Navy and Marine air forces. Yes, their is duplication in air assets, but their is duplication in gound assets as well, but you dont hear the AF saying that the the Marines should be disbanded and put under the Army. Also if you wanted to reduce duplication you could get rid of the Navy, Marine, and Army air arms and put all aircraft undaer USAF control.

One last thing, in the 50's when Nuclear War ruled the strategic thought, there was some thought the Army was no longer needed. That thought, of course tuned out to be rather short sighted, so to does this debate. While 4th Generation war is prevelant today, there are other crisis that will pop up tommorow.

Posted by: NTV at October 24, 2007 02:08 PM


Whether or not the air force is a separate service, they do have to work in a complementary fashion to the rest of the armed forces. There are definitely legitimate concerns about this aspect of our armed services. But infighting between branches is by no means limited to the military. Pretty much every government agency wants as much of the fiscal pie as possible, and typically that means claiming as much exclusive territory as possible and using it as it pleases. Be it the air force trying to be the sole operator of UAVs, or the CIA trying to keep the FBI out of it's territory.

Ultimately though, I don't see getting rid of the air force as a real solution to the infighting problem. Say you make it subordinate to the Army command structure. Sure the Army brass will redirect the service to suit the tactical needs of the Army ground forces, but it would likely neglect areas of its own choice.

Also note, that just because you say the AF is part of the army, doesn't mean you solve any infighting problems. In all likelihood the struggle for influence and funding will shift from being AF vs Army to being Army sub-faction A versus Army sub-faction B. There will always be factions at odds with one another whether they are different organizations, different teams, or just officers with different ideas.

The only answer is to try to elect people who can make the right decisions at the top. There is no magic bureaucratic restructuring that will alleviate the problem.

Posted by: ADyer at October 24, 2007 01:56 PM


I don't think I saw the mentioning of the R&D that the AF does. Or the pilot training.

If we do nix the AF, then all the supremacy pilots would still have to be trained in the same place, anyway. (for any efficiency)

But I figure the main argument against getting rid of the AF would be readiness for more conventional warfare.

Crap Happens

Posted by: Patron Vectras at October 24, 2007 01:49 PM


"Fine, roll the Air Force into the Army...you are still going to have expensive airplanes, ICBMs, satellites, etc. You say the Navy leads the way, but isn't the Navy having a hard time figuring out what to do with all of those expensive submarines? Haven't we seen problems with cost overruns in the LCS program, Ford class carriers, DDX? By the way, where does DDX fit into the counter-terror/COIN fight? The Army had its Crusader program and is still hanging in with its FCS. Let us not forget our Marine brethren who have fought for years to get the Osprey which may or may not work and are continuing the development of their EFV. All of the services have their issues with gold-plated toys."

I don't think you're making quite the case that you think you are. All you are doing is describing the other side of the very same coin.

ALL of the services (and, crucially, the industries that profit from them) are devoted to phenomenally expensive projects of very dubious utility. Given the extravagant costs of thesee systems, a rational citizen might reasonably expect ask, "How do they support our grand strategy? What IS our grand strategy?" The answers to both are invariably vague and disappointing, when they aren't phantasmagorical. In the end, all that most of these big-ticket items do is provide jobs programs.

In this context, the Air Force gets special attention mainly because

1) It is the most redundant of any of the services, which all have their own air forces -- which themselves, last time I checked, are pretty much the equal of the air force of any other NATION.

2) More than any other service, the air forces is entirely devoted to grandiose and untenable technological circuses.

3) The core air force mission, the reason why it was originally created as an independent service, is strategic bombing. After nearly a century of experience, strategic bombing is ready to join Hannibal's elephants and the battleship as another of the extravagant fads that dot military history. With the Cold War over, and nothing at all similar on the horizon (despite the fervent wishes of many of this site's readers), the Air Force is a solution in search of a problem. And a damned expensive one -- among other things, the USAF uses a quarter of all the fuel consumed by the entire U.S. government.

It's worth noting that the people in this thread who object most stridently to Axe's argument don't bother to tackle any of his points. They seem to be arguing from a kind of theological perspective, when they aren't just spewing insults.

Posted by: sglover at October 24, 2007 01:44 PM


Realize something here, Modern war isnt just the War on Terror, ya that is the one we are fighting now, but 20 years from now, 50? A military force must look to the future, and we have several big treats we have got to be able to match. If China overwhelms our skies, we my friend are screwed. The United States Army just could not repulse an invasion of that size, and in 20-50 years china will have the capability to make that invasion. Future, future, future, who, what,when, why, how. For someone to think the USAF is not longer even useful, remind yourselves of why we have an Airforce in the first dang place. No one is going to mess with use if we will hold dominance over the battlefield (major nation that is) who ever rules the skies will eventually win. It working in WW2, Korea, Nam, and twice in Iraq, it just works that way.

Posted by: 22lr at October 24, 2007 01:43 PM


Watch transformers... then tell me you don't need the air force.

Posted by: Dustin at October 24, 2007 01:40 PM


While we are at it, we ought to build a "Strategic Service" that would hold our ballistic missile submarines, our ICBMs, our long range bombers, our nuclear weapon carrying bombers, and such ballistic missile defense assets as we choose to acquire.

The balance of the Air Force could go to the Army.

Posted by: ohwilleke at October 24, 2007 01:26 PM


"Yan know, I was reading something that said that in the begining, the air force was not a seperate service and was rolled into the army. Then the Brits discovered that a seperate service made the air force stronger, They used it to keep Iraq from rebelling against them quite effectivly.

Personally, I like the idea of being able to blow up a hostile building at little threat to our troops instead of having to send men inside to clear it. "

Look, just because the guy is advocating scrapping the Air Force doesn't mean he's advocating scrapping air*planes*.

Gotta say that it's to this site's credit that it published Axe's piece, which is directly contrary to the outlooks and careers of several of the editors.

Posted by: sglover at October 24, 2007 01:18 PM


Dan, China doesn't have to solve its problems to be a military threat. The USSR was falling apart, its people starving, with a life expectancy rivaling that of sub-saharan Africa. That didn't stop them from making bombs and guns and tanks and planes.

"Enemy" nations will be friendly as long as we are bigger and stronger than they are. China does not want a war with the US, and one very large reason is because they would lose, decisively. If you downgrade our military capabilities, you are gambling that this will not change. I don't like to gamble. I've never played the lottery or gone to a casino. I see no reason to move from a position of strength to a position of weakness.

The best outcome for the F-22 and other "gold-plated toys" would be that they never had to fire a shot. Very few people will pick a fight they are guaranteed to lose. The Air Force (along with the rest of our armed forces) provides that guarantee. Some people have said that history has changed, that major wars are a thing of the past. Those people are wrong. History doesn't change, because people don't change. The same things were said after WWI, that countries wouldn't dare declare major war again given the destruction caused by the fighting in Europe. Peace lasted barely twenty years.

Posted by: Brian at October 24, 2007 01:06 PM


Good Morning David,

Good for you David, you talk common sense. The Air Force like the Battleship Navy and the Horse Cavalry are no longer a part of modern warfare.

Anybody who thinks the AF is still in the loop just has to look at the recent tenure of Gen. Meyers as CJCS, he was lottle more the a "Boot Lick" and echo for Rumsfeld.

The GWOT has passed the AF by. Other then serving as an airbirne bus service for the ground combat elements they are of little use and the missions they are flying could be done better and more cost effectivly by UCAV's.

This will be my third attempt to respond to your quote, you touch a nerve with our minders.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at October 24, 2007 12:48 PM


Once you come to the realization that the US is not attacking another nuclear nation state, you can take that rhetoric and procurement off the table. That just leaves counter-insurgency/post-conflict/CA, which is mostly non-kinetic. We have all learned our lessons that “winning the peace is just as important as winning the war.”

Whatever happened to “jointness” anyway? I guess the USAF wants to be rogue. The USAF must be forced to adapt their culture and budgets to this mission. If they do not, then moving their assets and money into more relevant branches would be necessary.

Posted by: BT at October 24, 2007 12:36 PM


Yan know, I was reading something that said that in the begining, the air force was not a seperate service and was rolled into the army. Then the Brits discovered that a seperate service made the air force stronger, They used it to keep Iraq from rebelling against them quite effectivly.

Personally, I like the idea of being able to blow up a hostile building at little threat to our troops instead of having to send men inside to clear it.

Posted by: Pantera at October 24, 2007 12:32 PM


The Air Force's mission is "to fly and fight in air, space, and cyperspace." Considering that the world DEPENDS on space, and much of the intelligence we recieve on terrorism is over the internet, I think it would be a good idea to leave it all alone. Besides, if you want to fold the air domain into the army, why not throw in the sea domain. What's the difference? In the end, you'd end up with WAY too many assets under one command, which would be divided into separate groups anyway, which might as well be sepapate services, that can deal with their specific problems separately, not have to put up with some umbrella solution. Finally, considering how old the other services are, they could take a lesson from how the Air Force takes care of its people. They offer the best leadership training and some of the best benefit programs. The AF academy was ranked #2 in the nation for leaderhip training. Annapolis was #6 and West Point #8. Obviously they have an idea what they are doing...

Posted by: fighterpilot317 at October 24, 2007 11:41 AM


Anyone who believes that China is a serious, direct, conventional military threat to America needs to invest a little time reading about the incredible challenges before that nation. Last May, I was fortunate to meet with officials at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing as well as officers at consulates in Chongqing and Chengdu. What these State/Treasury dept guys had to say blew me away. China has some VERY serious internal issues with which they need to deal … simple water supply for 1.5 billion people, the ability to control provinces, the growing economic disparity, etc.
Provided they somehow handle the myriad internal issues before the country breaks apart, they then have to tiptoe around small little backwater nations such as JAPAN, INDIA, and RUSSIA. History suggests that some of these nations might have serious reservations about letting China’s military growth go unchecked.
Point is: abolishing the AF might be a pretty wild argument, but if the AF is posturing and budgeting for war with China, then they're abolishing themselves.

Posted by: Dan at October 24, 2007 11:16 AM


Air power is a necessary component of modern warfare. You cannot just wish it away. The reason why our air force is not being challenged in air to air combat is because our force has maintained total air supremacy through superb technology and training. Allow that to lapse, and our enemies will once again challenge us with aircraft.

Counter-insurgency is a luxury. We can pursue it now because we have the resources to do so, but that situation will cease to exist if we are forced to face more powerful or more numerous adversaries. When the proverbial shit hits the fan, we can't afford to spend massive amounts of money carefully protecting civilians and people's perceptions of what is nice. That's when strategic bombing campaigns come into play. Strategic bombing has proven to be very effective when applied, see World War II.

And it's not like we don't have some serious potential enemies on the radar screen. Ignoring, for a moment, the 10 percent or so of the world's billion Muslims who state their unconditional support for jihad against the west and our unwillingness to take the warning signs seriously, take a look at China. Mr. Axe decries "anti-China rhetoric", suggesting that he is unaware of the threat they pose. China is a communist nation whose governing principles run counter to ours. They oppress their own people when it suits them, and continue to threaten Taiwan. Worst of all, Chinese agents are constantly infiltrating our intelligence agencies and military research institutions. They are aggressively attempting to steal our military secrets on a daily basis, and frequently succeeding.

China is no partner, no friend. China is an enemy that is biding its time. The only thing stopping them from doing whatever the hell they please is the knowledge that we are still in a position to prevent them from succeeding. People like David Axe would have us ignore their constant provocations and turn our military from a credible deterrent force into a feel-good institution whose primary goal is to not to offend people's sensitivities by appearing mean. It reflects a major misunderstanding of world politics and of human nature itself.

Posted by: ADyer at October 24, 2007 10:27 AM


Now I remember why DefenseTech used to suck so much, Axe used to write here more often.

Posted by: jim at October 24, 2007 10:20 AM


If you really think this is such a good idea why stop there? Fold all the services into one purple suit force that will multiply the benefits you suggest several fold. Of course, when you're done reorganizing you'll end up with pretty much the same thing but you already have only run by the bureaucratic winners in fancy new uniforms issuing orders on pretty new letterhead sitting behind brand new mahogany desks in newly remodeled offices.

Yeaaah, that's just what we need.

Posted by: crazy at October 24, 2007 10:11 AM


Interesting. Wouldn't this mean dropping the (what was it called? the Key West Agreement I think) and spreading air assets throughout the other services? I guess that would make a service more mission specific rather than asset specific and that could be a good thing. But jeez, I can't imagine anyone other than the air force managing long-range bombers, icbms, space control, continental interceptors, etc...

Posted by: JID at October 24, 2007 09:50 AM


"My Father was MI in ww11 and gaurded the psesident in Purrsia , He told me that this would happen ? He said removeing the Air Force from the Army was like removeing the Mariens from the Navy . And now it has come home to Roost ? .
Looks like the Old Man ? was Smarter than i thought !."

Yu ARe Goot sUm gud ensglish skilz?.!~& I iz 2 uderstant uRs wurds%. anD putin ?* teh sutf in de maddel uv ? ur centanses iz raly smert two?!

Lemme guess, Army?

Posted by: Bubba at October 24, 2007 09:49 AM


This is nucking futs. Liberalism is a mental disorder, that’s my only explanation of this. This only shows weakness for our nation at the most volatile time. And what of China, Russia and Iran, if we go to war with any of them it will be a more conventional war and will have great need for the AF. Just my thoughts.

Posted by: Lockness75 at October 24, 2007 09:46 AM


This article appears to be picking on a few comments from Air Force leadership to harp on disbanding the Air Force while using the cost of the JSF as another example of Air Force going after a gold-plated toy. The same could be said for any of the services, either now or at some point in the recent past.

Fine, roll the Air Force into the Army...you are still going to have expensive airplanes, ICBMs, satellites, etc. You say the Navy leads the way, but isn't the Navy having a hard time figuring out what to do with all of those expensive submarines? Haven't we seen problems with cost overruns in the LCS program, Ford class carriers, DDX? By the way, where does DDX fit into the counter-terror/COIN fight? The Army had its Crusader program and is still hanging in with its FCS. Let us not forget our Marine brethren who have fought for years to get the Osprey which may or may not work and are continuing the development of their EFV. All of the services have their issues with gold-plated toys.

Let's face it, you can make an argument to disband any of the services if you press hard enough.

Posted by: gonoles74 at October 24, 2007 09:45 AM


I think there are some salient points in the post above that should be addressed, and that can be done without typos or name-calling.
David asserts that the AF leadership is not well-equipped for diplomacy, and that is certainly true. Most DoD leaders are not trained as diplomats, nor should they be. Let the State Dept negotiate with foreign leaders, and let the Generals and Admirals do what they do best, which seems to be protecting their "rice bowls" and avoiding risk.
It is true that the AF has lost its way somewhat since the Cold War. We no longer have any opposing nation with an Air Force of its own willing to challenge our air superiority head-to-head. It's much more effective to oppose the US military in low-intensity conflict warfare.
As an AF Veteran myself, I had to laugh in 1999 when the AF Generals claimed sole victory in Kosovo. They didn't realize that Milosevic capitulated (if you can use that strong of a word) only after he'd accomplished his objectives in Kosovo, and only with the threat of invasion by the US Army forces massed on the border. After-the-war BDA proved that AF jets hits only about 15% of their intended targets, so how effective was the AF in winning its last traditional bombing campaign?
It is true that the AF leadership now just wants to protect their funding by any means possible. That is why they staked a claim to cyber warfare and stood up the AF Cyber Command last year. That is also why they continue to paint China as a possible adversary, even though it would be better to court China as an ally in the region. China still has a long ways to go on human rights, and there's still the thorny issue of Taiwan, but the AF sees China as one of the few remaining OPFORs that could sustain their reason for existence.
That, of course, ignores Big Bad Vlad Putin and Russia, and the possibility that they will not be our friends in the future. The level of rhetoric coming out of Russia these days hearkens back to Cold War levels, which is amazing. If the AF wants a reason to exist, there you go.

Posted by: bigboid at October 24, 2007 09:44 AM


While were at it lets disband the USMC they are only doing the same job as the army right? The USAF is vital to the nations security. Heck the Navy dosnt even do much these day either so lets though them in there as well. I will join the USAF as soon as I can because they actually treat there people better than scum. I will admit an overhaul might be needed, but I would never disband the USAF. Have we forgotten the lessons of why we have a USAF, or did we just forget that because some politicization dosnt think it applies anymore. Terrorism is our main fight right now, but just wait until China become a enemy. The USAF and the Navy is our only hope in that situation. The Army would be overwhelmed by simple numbers. The USAF has a different role than the Army, and look at why that is. Look at the tactics that cost us so many bombers in WW2 under the Army Air Corp.

Posted by: 22lr at October 24, 2007 09:18 AM


Wow, so the opposition, realizing the truth of this subject, resorts to name calling (SMSgt Mac).


This is very much talked about in the A7 Community. The truth of the matter is that the Air Force is finding themselves severely under budgeted for the sheer rediculous amount of money needed for maintaining aging facilities in high priced real estate (Beale anyone?). Combined with the price of operating an entire air mission seperate to the Navy's...

We're already talking about lowering the amount of F-22 sorties to almost zero, saving cash, and training in legacy aircraft.

When will we realize that it's just easier to roll it up?

Posted by: gxavier at October 24, 2007 08:24 AM


Oh, and since all future wars will be COIN, we don't need things like armored or mechanized forces, nor a great amount of artillery. We should just turn the entire Army into one big COIN force, right?

Posted by: Andy at October 24, 2007 08:22 AM


I guess everyone is allowed to have a hopeless fantasy - for David it's abolishing the Air Force - a service he really doesn't understand. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Andy at October 24, 2007 08:19 AM


Thats Nice. Have a cookie.
Let me know when you get someone who actually understands the subject (Airpower) who says the same thing. Wish we could chat longer but we grownups have to go to work...and isn't that your Mom calling?
BTW: The Air Force DOES still need a serious Leadership injection.

Posted by: SMSgt Mac at October 24, 2007 08:14 AM


My Father was MI in ww11 and gaurded the psesident in Purrsia , He told me that this would happen ? He said removeing the Air Force from the Army was like removeing the Mariens from the Navy . And now it has come home to Roost ? .
Looks like the Old Man ? was Smarter than i thought !.

Posted by: mgilfoy at October 24, 2007 08:04 AM


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