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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Secret Russian Aircraft Designs Revealed

russian-secret.jpg

Here’s another interesting article from our friends at Aviation Week that I thought was worthy of a comment or two. It’s a great example of how internet journalism/blogging can bring some “value added” to readers interested in defense issues and technology.

Bill Sweetman ran across a series of entries at the Secret Projects blog, which yours truly occasionally takes a look at, and found some really cool pictures clicked at a Russian aeronautics lab that shows some intriguing technology being developed there.

Aside from the whiz bang of it all, this sort of post tugs at my “Cold War” heart strings – being a student of Soviet foreign policy and Cold War diplomacy, there’s still a part of me that looks at Russia as this dark, closed place where crazy science experiments are allowed to run amok. Revelations of a variety of weapons development programs that went on behind the iron curtain revealed only as the wall fell have kept those embers smoldering.

This post comes a day after an equally interesting show was broadcast on the History International Channel titled “Secret Superpower Aircraft.” This series was like manna from heaven for someone like me who still yearns for the kind of Cold War rivalry that drove aerospace technology to its limits. The Avro Arrow? The F-103 Thunder Warrior? Hmmmm, yummie.

Well, enough about my addiction, feed yours with Bill Sweetman’s article at Military.com. Here’s an excerpt:

The invaluable Secret Projects website carries frame grabs from an early-2000s Russian TV documentary, filmed at the vast TsAGI wind-tunnel complex at Zhukovsky. While wind-tunnel models are not equivalent to real hardware, and while known sensitive material wouldn't have been shown, the models are a real indication of Russian industry and government thinking.

First is a flying-wing aircraft, looking (from the inlet and exhaust shape) like a four-engine bomber.

There is also a stealth fighter design that superficially resembles the Lockheed YF-22.

Significant differences from the US fighter include prominent leading-edge root extensions and a different wing and tail planform. This may be the rumored Sukhoi design nicknamed Big Ears, a precursor to the T-50 PAK-FA.

-- Christian

Comments


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Posted by: Dell optiplex at April 29, 2009 07:51 AM


many airframes from russian planes were thought up by russians only not americans..very few planes were mixed with western and soviet designs which was why some russian aircraft look bizarre but advance.

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Posted by: Dolla Jasey at October 31, 2007 07:52 PM


As far as the U.S. having secret aircraft,what do you think a lot of those "UFO" sightings in the U.S. could be.I still believe though that a whole butt load of planes up in the air flying in a zone defense CAP mission could make life for the F-22 difficult.If they cannot field so many fighter jets,then find a way to throw up an EMP field(Tesla Dome) in the air.Is the F-22 ruggedized to withstand an EMP?

Posted by: Roy Smith at October 31, 2007 12:51 PM


Russia has is recent years just copied American airframes, and put there stuff into them. I personally think its just a cheap way to do it, heck just buy the American plan. I realize it is all about national pride, but gosh. Heck they just started this not to long ago, and we are already working on the replacement for the F-22, they are a little behind. "It isn't about what nation we can fly the F-22 against, it is what nation will fly against the F-22."

Russia just has never been up to the Western standard, there airplanes only last 10-15 years (most of them). I just cant see how they could put together any serious competition this late in the game. Cant wait till we can fly one against the F-22 for testing though, just to see.

Posted by: 22lr at October 31, 2007 09:41 AM


The Russian's are only limited by their lack of funds. Don't kid yourself about their technical abilities and ingenuity. They continue to have some of the brightest minds.

Do you know where the lift fan design for the F-35 (JSF) came from? Russia. There are other technologies the USA is using that came from Russia (and other European nations).

The difference between the American minds and the Russian minds is for Russia, it has been a requirement for survival as a nation (former communist). For the US, it's a job, a paycheck.

India just signed a $5B (US) agreement with Russia for the PAK-50. Russia claims it will contribute $5B US as well. Preliminary information says it looks a lot like the F-18/22 and some scoff at that but the fact is, companies within the US were pursuing an alignment with India for that business but you see who won out.

I am not claiming that Russia is being a military aggressor, just don't blow them off as pumping smoke.

Posted by: Dan at October 31, 2007 08:08 AM


I talked with a 'friend' of mine,who calls the Urals his 'playground'. He returned a few months ago to relay his latest sighting.

Several aircraft,more than one make/model, fly at speeds that astonish him. He found out that these craft are using the Earth's magnetic flux lines to propel them at velocities greater than mach 4!!! NO VAPOR TRAILS. NO ENGINE NOISE (at cruise).

I wonder what OUR government is to,in this propulsion arena?

Posted by: Ron at October 31, 2007 03:43 AM


I talked with a 'friend' of mine,who calls the Urals his 'playground'. He returned a few months ago to relay his latest sighting.

Several aircraft,more than one make/model, fly at speeds that astonish him. He found out that these craft are using the Earth's magnetic flux lines to propel them at velocities greater than mach 4!!! NO VAPOR TRAILS. NO ENGINE NOISE (at cruise).

I wonder what OUR government is to,in this propulsion arena?

Posted by: Ron at October 31, 2007 03:42 AM


I remember back in 1979 that a friend of mine was an instructor for F-15 mechanics.He told them that the F-15 was the best fighter jet in the world(for that period of time).He then say that unfortunately,the Soviet Union had a heavy numerical advantage of fighter jets over the F-15(As,I believe,Lenin once said,quantity has a quality all its own).
To use football & basketball terminology,if the Russians had a zone defense of (serviceable,flyable) MiG-25,MiG-29,MiG-31,& Su-27s,maybe even a few MiG-21 & MiG-23s,flying CAP missions & the ability to calculate the direction of an air to air missile fired at one of their planes,they could make life difficult for the F-22.The question is how many of their fighter aircraft are serviceable?

Posted by: Roy Smith at October 31, 2007 12:33 AM


In fairness the Mig 15 is a great plane. There is one that flies in/out of Quonset NAS (ret). here. Einstein said make it simple, no simpler. i.e.: Mig 15. I’ll take a picture and offer as a post. The owner or keepers painted it in the original red colors. It’s pretty cool.

Posted by: Blake at October 30, 2007 08:52 PM


Yup, and were supposed to believe this. Im sorry but Russia has always been behind the times, I highly doubt that they could catch us this late in the game. Maybe they could but they have yet to offer a testbed for Stealth Tech, yet alone a full fighter.

Posted by: 22lr at October 30, 2007 08:17 PM



Dear Citizens of the rapidly dying planet Earth,

This information has been sent to NATO, the Whitehouse (Pres. G .W. Bush) the Gov. of California, the Democrat & Republican parties (USA), PM Gordon Brown and the EU parliament (they responded).
'When the earthquakes start in earnest', then you will realize humanity's destiny!

It's the environment... stupid!!

John Berbatis Perth, Australia October 19th, 2007

RE: Global environment collapse -how+why(seismic)‏
From: Disaster Diplomacy (disasterdiplomacy@hotmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2007 12:06:10 PM
To: john berbatis (johnberbatisau@hotmail.com)
Dear John, Please accept my apologies for a typo in the message below. Of course, UNHCR should be UNHCHR. Best regards, Ilan > From: disasterdiplomacy@hotmail.com> To: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Global environment collapse -how+why(seismic)> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:32:39 +0000>>> Dear John,>> Thank you kindly for your email and for the information. Yes, there is a reasonable amount of credible scientific literature on the topic of linkages between (i) weather and climate and (ii) tectonic events. The linkages are even stronger when we consider disaster events, not just the environmental changes. It is good to hear about your contribution to this body of research and I hope that you find opportunities to continue such endeavours.>> I would be cautious about promoting endorsements of science from lawyers, such as the politicians and judges whom you mentioned, because their values and training are not always the most appropriate for judging scientific merit. Some are able to straddle more than one field and make important contributions in several areas, but that does not apply to them all. Mary Robinson left UNHCR in 2002.>>> Reality rules this universe! ... not unproductive discussion & debate?>> As is clear from my work, including on the disaster diplomacy website, I agree with this sentiment.>> Ilan>> ________________________________> From: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com> To: webmaster@ptwc.noaa.gov; maureen.fordham@northumbria.ac.uk; admin@isc.ac.uk; isdr@un.org; info@gdacs.org; disasterdiplomacy@hotmail.com> Subject: Global environment collapse -how+why(seismic)> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:12:44 +0800>> Global environment collapse. ______________ John Berbatis, Australia>> Many citizens of earth do not realize the seriousness of the parlous state of the global environment, but will just prior to their obliteration by 'a raging mother nature'. Judging by the current extremes of global weather conditions and the recent increase in worldwide seismic activity, I believe humanity will face extinction before the end of 2008.>> In the past ten years there has been an exponential melting of the ice sheets and a noticeable disintegration of the ice shelves, owing to 'global warming'.> The loss of mass from the underlying Tectonics Plates causes them to ascend (iso-static rebound), and this results in an increase in the intensification and frequency of global seismological activity. The seismic data of the past ten years confirm this conjecture. Furthermore, the ice shelves impede the flow of glaciers and ice sheets into to the oceans; and when the 'polar regions' are subjected to unprecedented seismic upheavals, these events will then cause the ice sheets and glaciers to be dislodged en masse into the ocean!> This occurrence will then instantly destabilize the earth's surface weight distribution (isostasy), and so precipitate a 'crust displacement' (Mag. 12). i.e., axis change! The previous subterranean extraction of fossil fuels will greatly exacerbate this impending Apocalypse.> Currently, the excessive amount of carbon and methane gasses in the atmosphere is causing catastrophic weather conditions, globally - and this situation will rapidly deteriorate... 'a climate runaway!'> The global environmental and geo-political situations are now coalescing into a 'critical mass'; so I believe humanity can expect a catastrophe of worldwide proportions within this year!> In 1998, I submitted my dissertation on the above matter to various eminent institutions and individuals, to which I received positive responses from PM's Tony Blair, Helen Clark (NZ) & Lee Kwain Yew (Singapore) as well as the UN's - Dr Mary Robinson, Hon. Justice Michael Kirby AC CMG of the High Court of Australia, Premier P. Beattie (Queensland, Au) and Chief Justices of Canada, Norway, Taiwan, Mexico and Netherlands etc,.>> Reality rules this universe! ... not unproductive discussion & debate?>> John Berbatis> 4/21 Cornelian St> Scarborough 6019> Perth Australia Tel: +61 0422621382 October 8th, 2007> Estimating Exponentials> by Bob Powell, 5/29/07> [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/images/icon-printer.gif] Printer page> [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/images/icon-email.gif] Email article>> An article, Australian Researcher warns about Mass Human Extinction from Global Environmental Collapse by John Berbatis made me think, "Gee. Maybe things are worse than even I thought."> He writes: "Judging by the current extremes of global weather conditions and the recent increase in worldwide seismic activity, I believe humanity will face extinction before the end of 2008."> 2008 !!! Holy Cow. And here I've been worried about the coming economic collapse at about that time.> Alarmist? Maybe. Maybe not. That's next year. Maybe he's wrong and it's at least 10 or 20 years away. Whew! That would be a relief.> But really. Exponential increases do quickly get out of hand and humans are really, really terrible at recognizing how quickly. How terrible? This graph shows how bad we are at it based on experiments with real human beings.> [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/exponentialgrowthestimate.jpg]> Estimating Exponential Growth. From The Logic of Failure, Recognizing and Avoiding Error in Complex Situations by Dietrich Dorner, 1996, that I used in my Systems Thinking and Problem Solving class at Colorado Tech (in the slides for the second class).>> Link to Systems Thinking and Problem Solving class.> Beyond this, we're terrible at understanding the dynamics of stocks and flows as described at Global Warming: An Inconvenient-to-Understand Truth and Sterman's paper to which there is a link, also based on experiments with human beings, students from MIT and Harvard.> So that's two reasons why the seriousness of climate change is so easy to obfuscate, which I view as a crime of planetary proportions considering the number of people who will die unless the human race takes immediate action.> ________________________________> URL: http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/estexp.shtml>> [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/images/icon-top.gif] Top of Page [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/images/icon-email.gif] Email Article [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/images/icon-printer.gif] Printer>> © 2003 Continuous Improvement Associates>> [http://www.exponentialimprovement.com/cms/uploads/stmoretriangle-new.jpg]

Subject: FW: Editor. Logical proof of Monotheism and Pantheism.

Dear Editor,

Syllogisms I submitted in 1998, which were recognized by the UN’s High Commissioner for Human Rights – Dr Mary Robinson and the Hon. Justice Michael D. Kirby AC CMG of the High Court of Australia.

‘Time must exist before matter can be created, and only an animate entity can conceive of space-time. Time must be a stabilized and uniform condition before matter can form, thus Monotheism is a Truth.’

‘The Universe consists of space-time; which is functionally active and growing but remains stable. These combined characteristics are indicative of an animate entity only, thus Pantheism is a fact.’

‘Reality is the dream of a Universal sentient being; sensations of all mortals’ are merely light flashes within elongated fractal crystals, flowing in a white mist that is time itself, ensconced within a beige coloured and velvet textured Pearl, i.e. a holographic Universe.’

‘If all electrical particles were in different time zones matter would not form, thus time is a controlled electromagnetic radiation… energy… E=mc 2.’

‘To be perfect… one must know the past, present and future… there is only one… the one that created Time.’

John Berbatis Perth, Australia July 14th, 2006 Tel: +61 0422621382 Email: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com



Posted by: John Berbatis at October 30, 2007 07:42 PM


I watched some of those shows on th History International the other day. I saw a lot of pretty cool stuff that I had never even heard of before. One that I thought was pretty pimp was the Bartini A-57.

Posted by: murc at October 30, 2007 06:29 PM


The Russians want to sell jets to anyone who can pay. I'm sure there are a lot of countries with oil revenue who don't want to do business with the US who might want a new Mig or two. Iran, for example, could field a couple of hundred advanced fighters. India would fly 'em too, as might Venezuela, China etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they get a decent export design and sell 500+ to the world market.

Posted by: Rix at October 30, 2007 06:16 PM


"manna from heaven for someone like me who still yearns for the kind of Cold War rivalry that drove aerospace technology to its limits"

Look, I like airplanes, too. But I think Christian's statement reveals at least as much about our current "strategy" as all the American Enterprise Institute gassings ever written. We really don't **need** an enemy. But certain very powerful segments of our society do very nicely by perpetually hyping "the threat". Orwell said it best in "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism", among other places.

That said, I'm more and more curious about the Russian aviation industry, because such an industry is the capstone of a slew of other sophisticated industries -- materials, electronics, the lot. But when I travelled in that part of the world (in 2001), I saw lots of economic and educational devastation. I can see how they might be able to build sophisticated aircraft, but I'm puzzled about how they're still able to **develop** them after so much social breakdown.

Posted by: sglover at October 30, 2007 06:02 PM


Kind of hoping they could have included the whiz-bang fascinating suffix that every Russian system report contains:

...are equipped to overcome missile defense systems
...can detect and defeat stealth technology
...cannot be jammed into or by western technology;)


Posted by: Blake at October 30, 2007 03:12 PM


Pretty cool stuff - giant hypersonic test facilities are like crack cocaine for engineers! I wonder what this says about the state of Russian aerospace engineering? Do they have a greater reliance on empirical testing because of less CFD capability? How does this affect their development process, given that good empirical data can find things missed in computer models, but costs a lot and takes longer?

Posted by: George Skinner at October 30, 2007 02:54 PM


And don't forget this super-secret Russian fighter:

http://www.thinkinrussian.org/flightsim.cfm

:)

Posted by: ExUrbanKevin at October 30, 2007 11:08 AM


While I agree that there is a good possibility that such aircraft might exist. It is also known for the russians to blow smoke.

It is easy to build a wind tunnel model.
It is much more difficult to design a testbed aircraft.
It is even more difficult to design an aircraft that is feasible to fly and support for a mission-ready status.

The same applies to rocketry.

So, while I think there is an ideas factory out there - which is definitely something to be feared. I would think the Russians would have really shown something off if they had the ability.

Posted by: Vstress at October 30, 2007 08:11 AM


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