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Posted by: wowpowerleveling at April 16, 2008 04:06 AM

For Lu: Marine One should be a VIP Osprey.
And the a330 is flying corrosion trap junkpile.

Posted by: GM Cassel AMH1(AW) USN RET at March 8, 2008 03:35 PM

It's EADS. -Frank

Posted by: Frank Shuler at February 29, 2008 04:51 PM

> If Boeing wins, I would expect them to
> immediately propose a 777, 787, or even 747-8
> to replace the KC-10's.

There are plans for future follow contracts called KC-Y and KC-Z. The KC-Y will replace the KC-10 and the KC-Z will replace the rest of the 135's.

Posted by: NTV at February 29, 2008 11:28 AM

The problem with using foreign parts for the military is that the first time the Europeans disagree with our military politics try and get support for the aircraft they build!!!

Posted by: Vince at February 29, 2008 08:47 AM

I'm still trying to figure out if you want a few big tankers that can carry a lot of fuel but be in few places, or more smaller tankers that can be in more places. I wonder if its an issue to have more eggs in one basket with each larger aircraft?

If Boeing wins, I would expect them to immediately propose a 777, 787, or even 747-8 to replace the KC-10's.

Posted by: nb at February 28, 2008 08:48 PM

Cargo capacity is fairly important for tankers. The Air Force uses tanker cargo capacity to enable units to self-deploy quickly: load ground equipment, spares, and personnel on board the tanker, and then use the tanker to refuel aircraft en-route. The KC-135 has relatively little cargo capacity, but the KC-10 has proven very useful.

Posted by: George Skinner at February 28, 2008 04:21 PM

While I agree that generally a power like the US should keep things in-house, this is one example of a program that could go either way without any great detriment to US industry. Selecting the EADS product doesn't suddenly mean the US loses it's ability to design airliner-derived tankers. For an f-16 replacement or an M1 follow on etc, keep US design skills for sure.

But with 777s and 787s filling the skies for the next few decades and whoever wins this doing the specialist tanker equipment install in the US anyway, it can be a pragmatic choice.

I do wonder however if general cargo capacity in what AFAIK is a busy tanker fleet is really much of a selling point.

Posted by: ak at February 28, 2008 03:56 PM

"Since most Americans buy foreign built cars, tvs, ipods, ect why can't the Pentagon just do what we do and buy the best product for the best price. I guess that makes too much sense....

Jack"

1) Fundamentally, the ability of the nation to defend itself in time of war is directly related to the strength of the US defense industry.

2) Here's a newsflash: Boeing aircraft, Northrop-Grumman aircraft, and Chevy and Ford trucks ARE the best in the world.

If you disagree on the truck end, go buy a Tundra. I hope your driveshaft doesn't grenade and flail away underneath the truck at 1000 rpm or so, but according to Toyota, there are no guarantees...

We'll just leave the grenading camshafts,

Posted by: PacerX at February 28, 2008 02:58 PM

The ability to lift LESS fuel over a SHORTER range is a WAR LOSING WEAPON that suggests the A330 will win.

The cancelation of the C5 engine upgrade program last week is also a good pointer - A330s carry a lot of freight!

Posted by: Pedro at February 28, 2008 02:26 PM

Despite being partnered with Northrop-Grumman, the KC-30 is still a European product. Toyota and Honda have car assembly plants in North America, but I think most people wouldn't consider them American cars. Same thing with the KC-30 - the real value-added component(design and engineering) is done in Europe. Assembly jobs pay well, but without the design component, they don't provide a long-lived economic benefit. That's why truly domestic manufacturers are usually preferred. This is all irrespective of the quality of the product, of course.

Posted by: George SKinner at February 28, 2008 11:13 AM

Fords and Chevys? I if he walks through the parking lot at work with his eyes shut. (I see plenty of European and Japanese makes in mine.) Not that it really has anything to do with the central point- I expect an Boeing buy as much as anyone else simply on these grounds. T'hell with EADS, anyway.

Posted by: SgtF at February 28, 2008 11:11 AM

Wish Boeing would have put forth the KC-777 instead of the KC-767.

Posted by: Benjamin Fan at February 28, 2008 11:04 AM

I think many are missing the point here. EADS / Airbus are partnered with Northrop Grumman......a US company!

If the consortium wins......and on paper they have the better aircraft.....then the majority of the work will be carried out in the US.

It's time people stopped worrying about where various companies in a partnership originated and start demanding that the equipment purchased is the best bar none.

Posted by: Wren Mandagorn at February 28, 2008 05:03 AM

Kevin, perhaps you should get some of your facts straight before posting such nonsense.

Posted by: pfcem at February 27, 2008 11:32 PM

Boeing has taken the American tax-payer for granted and things have gone way too far with military contractors ripping us off. If Northrop/EADS wins, it will send a message to Boeing that it must compete fairly and effectively, if they want any business.

Posted by: Kevin at February 27, 2008 10:36 PM

We need "life saving" robots for our Fire Fighting Departments.They need to be programed to search for possible survivors in burning buildings,& when they find them,the robots can say to the victims in a thick German accent,"Come with me if you want to LIVE."
For anybody reading this,there are two interesting articles about robots in combat.

"Robot wars 'will be a reality within 10 years'"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/02/27/scirobots127.xml

"Automated killer robots 'threat to humanity': expert"
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080227111811.y9syyq8p&show_article=1

Can the defenders of UAVs,UCAVs(fighters & bombers),UGV(both armed & unarmed),& unmanned surface vessels explain to me why they are creaming in their panties in orgasmic joy over unmanned technology in "war"?

Posted by: Roy Smith at February 27, 2008 08:29 PM

The problem that the air force faces is that it's not as simple as a choice between an ok American plane and a superior european one, it's a choice between a cheaper plane that mostly hauls fuel and a more expensive one that hauls fuel plus some other stuff you can cram into it. Versatility is always a good thing, but it's not as if the air force doesn't have other things to spend money on.

Posted by: Ben at February 27, 2008 07:54 PM

Why in the hell is it that companies can protest contracts. All it does is draw out the time it takes to obtain these aircraft. And with the current state of the Air Forces tanker's, they can't afford any more lag time. Another thing too, these are freakin tankers were talking about.

Here's what the air forces requirements should be for tankers.

1.) They can fly.
2.) Gas can actually be transfered from the tanker to the recieving air craft.

Oh yeah, and another thing, they must be built in
The United States of America.

Posted by: WIGGUM at February 27, 2008 07:21 PM

This contract has a potential value of 100 billion dollars. It is almost certain that the bidder that is not selected when the award is announced will file a protest. It is a shame that this contract bid, which is critical to our national defense, has had the shadow of a scandal hanging over it.

Posted by: Thom Moriarty at February 27, 2008 06:53 PM

Since most Americans buy foreign built cars, tvs, ipods, ect why can't the Pentagon just do what we do and buy the best product for the best price. I guess that makes too much sense....

Jack

Posted by: Jack at February 27, 2008 06:43 PM

If a European helicopter can win the Marine One competition, then nothing is impossible.

Posted by: Lu at February 27, 2008 06:16 PM