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Guns and fists as "snow rage" erupts

QUEBEC CITY, Quebec (Reuters) - Although Canada is one of the snowiest countries in the world, a series of violent "snow rage" incidents reveal that even the locals have their limits.

Police in the French-speaking province of Quebec said on Wednesday that people were fighting over snow clearing and even parking spaces.

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Posted by: Who would Jesus snuff at March 13, 2008 06:01 PM

Christian,
I think this weapon is awesome. It is obviously a concept.
As a gun-toting-loony I would say that the NRA is a joke who has been assimilated into the D.C. Borg? perpetuating the same old stuff never solving any real problems like most power-hunger ruling class types. What I mean is that the Government talks about hunger, homeless, family ... but these problems have not gone away. The NRA has never solved nor contributed anything to protecting the 2nd amendment. The NRA does contribute to making gun ownership responsible, safe and the like, but ensuring that the Government doesn't infringe on the average-Joe by protecting the 2nd amendment - they come up short.
The firewall intended to limit Government power (Constitution) has been trampled. Irresponsible people in control of or better, the lack of control of firearms is not the Governments job nor do they have the authority to place limits on this right.
However, there exists a higher moral duty of citizens to ensure that people use firearms in a way that contributes to our civilization as we see it. BUT... not the Government. Respectfully, the NRA has failed to uphold and support the implementation of this firewall.
The fact that there are gangs and illegal use of firearms is exclusively a Government failure, not the lack of (illegal) modifications to the second amendment.
As alway, for these lazy men it is easier to levy blame, responsibility and the financial burden on people who take this right and the rule of law VERY SERIOUSLY. If you want to change the Constitution, do it legally.
I'm going to purchase one of those weapons when they are available because I can; and because I respect the people who fight everyday to ensure this. Hitler disarmed a whole population using the sporting purpose clause and sadly people use that in the US. In support of these people I chose to hunt with my AK-47 (Strictly regulated: 5 rd clip, side mounted scope). I have your sporting purpose right here.

One more thing, when everyone carries a gun it is not the wild west, it is Vermont. A very nice place.

BTW: Christian, not directed at you, just my hot button.

Posted by: Blake at March 12, 2008 12:14 PM

Wembley

Because the predominantly 14 to 21 year age group you are talking about are not generally prone to get formal firearms training, and are likely to rely on what they see in popular culture for their training.

Recently however, there has been an increase in the infiltration of the US Military by gang members, and that is causing some of the crimes to shift to a more violent and deadly trend when military tactics and training are applied to violent gangland felonies.

Posted by: ssrpaulo at March 11, 2008 03:41 PM

Seems like it would make a good backup for military types. Perhaps a beefed up version (that's really a SMG instead of a glorified pistol) would fit nicely into a soldier's webbing. That fancy M16 jams up, out comes the transformer gun.

Posted by: BobJim at March 11, 2008 03:39 PM

Here is the problem I have with this response. You mention “common knowledge in the behavioral health field” using terms language designed to assert a degree of paranoid delusional behavior. When I asked you to cite this common knowledge instead of being able to cite so weak a source as an article in Psychology Today, you respond with an editorial from a blog that won’t load. An editorial.

I read “racially coded” and what comes to mind is the sly insinuation of racism… I find that to be particularly important because neither you nor the author of your cited blog know my racial makeup, history, or anything pertinent to who I am. It is simply the meme of racist motivation. The so called “white guilt”, or other such nonsense that people try to foist when they can’t substantiate an argument.

In 2006 [the most complete numbers available from the FBI], “Robbery, Location, Percent Distribution by Region, 2006” street/highway was consistently at the top of the demographic breakdown by population. Additionally, the top 5 types of property stolen through robbery were Currency, notes, etc., Jewelry and precious metals, Clothing and furs, Locally stolen motor vehicles, and Office equipment.

Arrests by race for Murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible Rape, and robbery show some interesting information that does not support a racially motivated attitude. “In 2006, 70.1 percent of all adults arrested were white, 27.6 percent were black, and the remaining percentage was of other races.”

“Forget that you are most likely to get killed by someone that you know.” The total felonies perpetrated by a family member or person known to the victim: 6335; Committed by a stranger: 1905; and unknown 6750, actually makes for a pretty even split.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Now, I live in an area of the country where gang activity is high. The manufacture of meth, and its sale combined with human smuggling are the major industries of the illicit population. The rise in meth in this area has been linked to a correspondingly higher rate of forcible home invasion robbery, larceny and automobile theft.

So, you are not anti-gun, hooray. So you are against “spouting off BS about carrying one in public”; I’m not into bragging about it either. You are not impressed “…nor would be the fantasy thugs he's describing”; I’m not loosing any sleep over that either.

What I am concerned about is the safety of my kids, and their mother. We wear seatbelts, don’t smoke, exercise and don’t go places where I think I need a gun to go; because if I need a gun to go there, I have no business going there in the first place.

I have a first aid kit in my vehicle, and one in my home. I have a fire extinguisher in each as well. That does not mean I’m going to become an arsonist or that I am accident prone. It means that I am taking reasonable precautions. But when all the common sense precautions have been taken, and you still end up in a spot, you show me something that is as effective at defending my family as a firearm and I’ll carry it, and I’ll make sure I am safe and proficient with it, otherwise it is a very expensive and rather poor club at best.

Until then, I hope you stay happily unconcerned.

Posted by: ssrpaulo at March 11, 2008 03:34 PM

Spot on, Buffalo. The high risk group for being shot are young black males. Strangely enough, they're also quite well armed. So why doesn't it protect them?

Posted by: Wembley at March 11, 2008 08:48 AM

I too lived in a dicey part of DC, the "bad" end of U-Street two years ago before the forces of gentrification pushes the boundary from 16th street to 10th street.

Getting a virgina driver's license is easy. Getting firearms in virginia is easy. Driving across bridges is easy.

It's how the gangstahs do it, it's how paranoid white men do it.

I'm so happy i moved out of that city...

Posted by: Anonymous at March 10, 2008 06:35 PM

You look up the stats and studies, but here's an overview of what the average gun-on-the-streetcorner joe should know about the world of mayhem which swirls about them( and which only the like-minded can see):

"For guys, it's different, and particularly for the white guys who make up the overwhelming majority of the providers and consumers of the firearms/self-defense discourse.

What these guys are afraid of--and I use the word "afraid" advisedly because the self-defense discourse masks the fear with confidence and grim determination--is drug crazed (racially coded) gangsters crashing through their door at 3 am.

There are endless discussions of muzzle velocities, bullet types, shotguns vs. pistols, etc., all aimed at preparing men for that crucial moment when the drug crazed (racially coded) gangsters come crashing through the door, intent on killing you and raping your women.

[in fact, one of my favorite comments summed it all up neatly in 20 words: "Lying in a pool of your own blood watching your wife being raped while your house burns down around you." ]

But is that really what guys, especially white guys, ought to be afraid of?

Hell, no.

Forget that you are most likely to get killed by someone that you know.

Forget that if a white male dies of a gunshot wound, the odd are it was either an accident or a suicide.

Forget that when people do, in extremely rare cases, come crashing through a door at 3 am, it's almost always related to the drug trade--either you burned someone who's out for revenge, or you scored a lot of dope, and someone who knows about it has come to steal it.

No, the real thing to bear in mind here is that death by a firearms wound is itself an extremely unlikely occurrence for white men.

When white men die, they generally die of things like heart disease or cancer.

That's what these guys ought to be afraid of.

Just once, I'd like to see if all these guys who can quote the muzzle velocity and loaded weight of each piece in their arsenal can even come close to guessing their cholesterol levels.

"Say, Mitch--is that a Smith & Wesson 357PD you've got there?" "Sure is Bart, but what's been on my mind lately is my triglyceride level--it's been creeping up lately, and my HDL isn't where it ought to be."

Yeah, right. Like that day is gonna come anytime soon.

But that's not even the worst of it. You want to know what the biggest killer of white men is?

What the census calls "Accidents and Adverse Effects."

Not (racially coded) drug crazed gangsters--just good old fashioned D.U.I, not wearing your seatbelt, and slipping in the tub."

http://barkbite.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-guns-and-intolerable-threat.html

Posted by: Da' Buffalo at March 10, 2008 05:38 PM

"Da' Buffalo", I would be interested in seeing if you can post links to 2 or more studies that support your claim and have been published in any reputable journal. It is easy to claim “common knowledge in the behavioral health field”. It is even easier to undertake an off the cuff diagnosis of “behavioral health problems”.

Now, most reputable people in the field would agree that any unsubstantiated, undocumented statement of “fact” is not even a viable hypothesis and as is not worth wasting time on.

Posted by: SSRPaulO at March 10, 2008 01:12 PM

Da'Buffalo

I am not saying sketchy places dont exist, I am saying he, and you, should not be such pussies about it.

as a side note, perhaps someone on this board can explain to me why someone would even want to conceal a weapon.

as far as I can tell there are two reasons to carry:

1) self defense, in which case you would want it visible so thugs no not to start anything. I cannot see why you would want anything other than an AK47

or 2) Irony, to make fun of people who live in one of the safest countries on earth yet seem to believe it is as dangerous for middle class white people as Johannesburg during the revolution. in this case I cant see why you would want anything other than a hello kitty AK47

Posted by: evangeline at March 10, 2008 01:04 PM

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I want one.

Posted by: nam at March 10, 2008 10:16 AM

It would classify as an SBR. The one shown at the SHOT show has no auto sear in it, so its semi only.
One thing that most of you are forgetting is that even with as short a sight radius as that piece has, its a longer sight radius than a midsized pistol, AND a stocked weapon like a carbine or an SBR will always be a more stable platform than a pistol when shouldered. Yes a pistol might be faster, but this puppy would also be more accurate in general because of that fact (assuming you can shoot worth crap).

Put one as the detatchable handle on your briefcase, or slip it into your "man purse" or have it stowed under your desk at home. There are many possibilities for something like that that folds up to the size (approximately) of a VHS tape.

Posted by: coolhand77 at March 10, 2008 09:39 AM

Looks cool, but don't go thinking it provides any actual protection on the streets.

On the other hand, it'll be really useful for the bad guys and makes life that much harder for the cops.

Posted by: Wembley at March 10, 2008 09:35 AM

Q: If your so anti gun, hate 'em, etc.........

What the hell are you doing in here anyway???

Personally, I'm not anti-gun.

I'm against spouting off BS about carrying one in public.

I'm not impressed, nor would be the fantasy thugs he's describing.

It's common knowledge in the behavioral health field that people who's lives revolve around defending themselves from mythical or perceived but yet un-confronted predators who might threaten them or their family at some random unstated time in the future become the 'crazy' they seek to defend themselves from.

In other words, the author's brag & boast is an indicator of behavioral health problems.

Posted by: Da' Buffalo at March 10, 2008 09:33 AM

This seems to defeat the whole purpose of being armed. Unless you think the point is to get the chance to shoot things up rather than to avoid problems in the first place

Posted by: g at March 9, 2008 09:18 PM

KragCulloden,
When I was in the army during the 80's we had the M16A1 rifle & we only were allowed 20 round magazines as medics in support battalions.When I was in 1/15th Infantry battalion,I carried a M1911A1 pistol.I heard that medics in artillery battalions could carry a M3 sub-machine gun & in fact spoke to one who said he did(imagine my envy over that one).If medics are allowed 30 round magazines today,then they have it a hell of a lot better than we did in the "peace-time/cold war" army & forget about optic sites for us.At least common sense has finally hit the medical corps then.I stand corrected on criticizing that photo of the female medic who deservedly won the Silver Star.

Posted by: Roy Smith at March 9, 2008 07:11 PM

Thanks for the comments, guys. The FMG-9 is currently in prototype phase - we went from design to prototype in about 10 days, so if/when this gets released it will be in a much more refined format. We just thought it was a cool idea, so we built it...not much more to it than that.

The FMG isn't really designed to be a CCW pistol replacement, or standard issue military/police weapon. It's got very specific applications, some of which have been named here. I see this being useful for the Secret Service, under cover, the alphabet soup agencies in Washington D.C., etc. I love the FMG, but it's still slower to deploy than the .45 that rides in a holster on my hip, and it still fires a pistol bullet. It has its place, but duty applications are somewhat limited.

That said, even at SHOT Show - a place full of guns and gun nuts - no one "made" the FMG as a gun until we pushed the magic button on the side. Very cool stuff...

Posted by: Nick B. at March 9, 2008 04:36 PM

@Roy -

I have no idea what you are talking about...banana clips - do you mean the standard 30 round magazine for all M16s and M4s in the US military? If so, then yes, that is standard, at least for the Corpsman in the USMC.

I have read that many Corpsmen in Iraq carry a shotgun, but I believe that is unique to the city fighting in Iraq. All that I knew carried the standard M16, which nowadays for Marines would be the A4 with ACOG. I thought the Army standard was an M4 with CCO optics...anyone here an Army type?

Posted by: KragCulloden at March 9, 2008 02:31 PM

Off-topic,does anybody know if all of our soldiers,to include combat support & combat service support,are being issued rifle scopes,or a scope of some sort,to go with their m4 carbines? The reason I ask is because AOL.com has an article about a 19 year old medic who won the Silver Star for saving her buddies after an IED blew up their vehicle & they came under enemy attack.
Any,the publicity photo of her holding an M4 rifle with a scope on it AND a 30-round "banana-clip" magazine has drawn questions from some,including me,who know that medics did could carry M4/M16s,but they were restricted to carrying 20 round magazines.Some,including me,feel that the PR people just gave her an M4 that obviously wasn't hers,to pose like a "Xena warrior princess." Others feel like such an opinion is showing jealousy towards her because we are pointing out the mistake of the weapon she's carrying.If medics today are allowed to have scopes & 30-round magazines with their M4s,then nevermind.I just want to know? We sure weren't allowed banana clips when I was a medic in Germany during the 80's.

Posted by: Roy Smith at March 9, 2008 01:39 PM

I have ONE and only ONE question in regards to the "negative posts" I see in in here on this subject.

Q: If your so anti gun, hate 'em, etc.........

What the hell are you doing in here anyway???

RATM rocks the house, but there commie scum;;;;;;;;;1
Have a nice day

Posted by: David Woroner, Pres/CEO Survival Consultants Int'l llc at March 9, 2008 12:03 PM

Evangeline: "if you life somewhere that you need an SMG to take a walk its time to consider a relocation.

I live in Vancouver, the marijuana trade capital of north America, the nexus of pacific rim organized crime activity on the continent (of which three are currently in a gang war), the port of choice for al qaeda operatives seeking to enter America, the place where the rest of the country sends its recently released convicts. not once have I felt so unsafe as to require a weapon of any kind, let alone an SMG, to go outside."

I busted my chops as a 14 year old runaway kid on the streets of the Lower East side in the 60s, so I KNOW there are places like what he describes in DC.

But I also know he either doesn't live there, or really needs to take the 'Rollie" off before he walks home.

Posted by: Da' Buffalo at March 8, 2008 06:29 PM

Well maybe the gun designers have the businessman/casual mercenary as the target market? Just another day in his double shift? Psychologically I suppose it is likely that many aggressors will be awed delaying them enough for said person to eventually be shocked.

And for the life of me this guy in the video reminds me of the karate teacher in napoleon dynamite.

Posted by: Galls at March 8, 2008 11:10 AM

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Let's all be honest people, this is not for any of us. this is more or less a executive protection piece for high paid asshold body gaurds. Its like something out of a movie, a crew of peopel hit a button on their briefcases and produce said weapon.

It seems really cool, yes, these guys are up to some big things, yes, is it something you would want, or find useful in a typical self defense situation? I would think not.

If someone is coming at me or my loved ones with intent to harm, i would think that the process of going to a waist holster and getting your sights up is already long enough. I would not want to ask a crack head to hold on while my transformer fun gun got caught in my TactiCool MilSpec jacket.

But, yes, it is really cool looking. So with that said, this entire post is out the window for most people.

Posted by: TheBoogyMan at March 8, 2008 10:56 AM

Hmm, it seems as if we have "groupies" from the band "rage against the machine" in here for the most part.
Now dont get me wrong, the system is mighty broken, and, when it all comes tumbling down, will you be a slave or a free human?
Thats your choice. Why? Because G-D gave you free will. I choose to live free or die.
Those whom forget history are doomed to relive it.

Posted by: Loosy Goosie at March 8, 2008 03:30 AM

"a dicey part of DC" -- That's redundant, my friend.

When I worked on Capitol Hill back in 1979, I lived at 10th and Independence S.E., I had an illegal roommate, Mr. Mossberg, who helped me keep the peace.

It worked.

Posted by: Lewis Perdue at March 7, 2008 10:21 PM

This is actually an old idea. Eugene Stoner, lead designer on the AR-15/M-16, did a folding SMG when he worked with ARES, Inc., back in the 70s. There was another version, the Boatman M-21, after that, and the Russians copied the ARES weapon as the PP-90.

The chief difference here is that it is largely a shell/stock for COTS components -- another manufacturer's pistol.

Civilian apps seem pretty limited; even as a semiauto, it's got a folding stock, and/or "short barreled rifle" configuration. IIRC, that puts it into a whole world of Federal and State legal hassles.

Don't know about police/military apps, either. In the proper caliber, it could be an alternative to a pistol, or holsterable PDW; you could fit one in a MOLLE pouch. Otherwise, like its predecessors, it's pretty much made for clandestine ops. Fold it up, and it looks like something it's not.

As for carrying one around your neighborhood, that's hyperbole, I hope.

Posted by: demophilus at March 7, 2008 08:57 PM

My question is how would this correspond to current gun laws? Would this technically classify as carrying a concealed weapon? Or could carrying this in the open be similar to carrying a holstered pistol or a slung rifle (not illegal in some areas on the face of it, but the police would likely find some pecuniary charge to bring you up on)? This will be a very interesting court case in the near future, I can assure you that much.

Posted by: RPB at March 7, 2008 08:10 PM

Gotta Love those folks at MagPul, I really hope this thing goes into production.

Posted by: Eric at March 7, 2008 04:45 PM

Christian,

either its time to move out of Baghdad or your just a pussy.

if you life somewhere that you need an SMG to take a walk its time to consider a relocation.

I live in Vancouver, the marijuana trade capital of north America, the nexus of pacific rim organized crime activity on the continent (of which three are currently in a gang war), the port of choice for al qaeda operatives seeking to enter America, the place where the rest of the country sends its recently released convicts. not once have I felt so unsafe as to require a weapon of any kind, let alone an SMG, to go outside.

Evangeline

Posted by: evangeline at March 7, 2008 04:36 PM

Hey,I want one of these to go with my Swiss Keychain mini gun that fires real[ly tiny] bullets.

Posted by: Roy Smith at March 7, 2008 03:51 PM

I need one of those.

I want one of those.

It is a really cool weapon.

Posted by: Big Daddy at March 7, 2008 03:31 PM

Joshik,

Please tell me you're joking. I'm gonna start calling you Johnny Law. Get a grip, bro, wilya?

No, I haven't ever had to "draw my weapon" and no, I recognize it is illegal to have a pistol in DC. Would that stop you? And who said I'm carrying a pistol?

No, I have not been physically assaulted, but yes, I and my wife have been frequently verbally assaulted and I have more than a half dozen friends/neighbors have have been either physically or verbally assaulted (usually teenagers...we're talking 13, 14, 15 years-old). And did I mention the bullet lodged in the tree in my front yard, the shattered windshield from a 9mm round in my neighbor's driveway or the running gunbattle between drug dealers that went down on my street a couple months ago?

Hand me the Magpul baby!

Posted by: Christian at March 7, 2008 03:09 PM

"(and trust me, it happens plenty in my 'hood)"

If it WAS your "'hood", you wouldn't be getting harassed. Honky.

Wishing you luck with the "rat pack"...

Da' Buiffalo

Posted by: Da' Buffalo at March 7, 2008 02:27 PM

Have you ever drawn your weapon in DC? Were you being physically assaulted? Verbally harrassed? Looked at the wrong way? Did you call the cops? Were there any repercussions? Since carrying a weapon in the streets of DC is illegal, I would think you would be the one ending up in prision, unless maybe the other person also had a firearm and was actively threatening your life.

Posted by: Joshik at March 7, 2008 01:36 PM

OK, I just now watched the video. I love this thing. It is essentially a Glock 18 with a stock and elongated barrel. A new machine pistol (or sub-machine gun as we in the US call it).

So Christian, this is a sub-machine gun. No semi-auto about it if I am inferring what the presenter is saying. He calls it a FMG: Folding Machine Gun.

Nice. Now all you need is:
1. Supreme Court to invalidate the DC weapons ban (an at the same time possibly the Federal laws concerning ownership of automatic weapons, or
2. A couple thousand dollars for the Tax Stamp,a 4 month background check, and a move to NVA and you could be in business.

Posted by: Bob at March 7, 2008 01:10 PM

Christian,

I would classify it in the same category as the Colt Sporting Rifle I can buy at the gun store down the road. Small caliber (.223), and semi-auto. Just a better design for concealability. My question would be how rapidly could you deploy it? In downtown DC I'd still rather have my Glock or HK USP and Remington tactical shotgun.

Posted by: Bob at March 7, 2008 01:02 PM

Bob,

So, you seem to have proven my point...Submachine (small caliber round) gun...But then YOU make the point subMACHINE (full auto fire)...hmmm, not sure what to call it now. Is this a new class of weapon maybe?

Posted by: Christian at March 7, 2008 12:55 PM

OMG!!! I love these guys. what a sweet weapon. I hope they decide to make them. I'll take two!!!

Posted by: Erik at March 7, 2008 12:37 PM

Technically, I don't believe you can have a semi-auto sub-machine gun. Machine guns are by definition fully automatic weapons (requiring an individual to have a Federal Tax Stamp to buy/own/sell). A sub-machine gun is a machine gun firing a cartridge in a defined small caliber range (read assault weapon).

A semi-auto is strictly a type of firing mechanism, i.e., double-action or single action.

That what makes me crazy about the "Assault Weapons Ban". Assault weapons are already heavily regulate.

Nonetheless, a neat tool (which is what after all a firearm is). I live in MD outside of DC and you could not pay me to move down their.

Posted by: Bob at March 7, 2008 12:36 PM

Fascinating - that thing is a thing of beauty.

Posted by: Benjamin Fan at March 7, 2008 12:31 PM