Subscribe via RSS

Archives by Date
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009

See all Archives
Archives by Category
'Canes
Afghan Update
Ammo and Munitions
Armor
Around the Globe
Av Week Extra
Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
Bizarro
Blimps
Blog Bidness
Body Armor Blues
Bomb Squad
Brownshoes in Action
Bubbleheads, etc.
Cammo Green
Catch the "Buzz"
Chem-Bio
Civilian Apps
Cloak and Dagger
Commandos
Comms
Contingency Ops
Cops and Robbers
Cyber-warfare
Data Diving
Defense Tech Poll
Defense Tech Radio
Dissent Tech
Door Kickers
Drones
DT Administrivia
Eat DT's Dust
Extra! Extra!
Eye on China
Fast Movers
FCS Watch
Fire for Effect
FOS Files
Friday Funnies
Gadgets and Gear
Going Green
Grand Ole Osprey
Ground Vehicles
Guns
Homeland Security
In the Weeds with Eric
Info War
Iraq Diary
Jarhead Jazz
JSF Watch
Just War Theories
Lasers and Ray Guns
Less-lethal
Logistics
Los Alamos and Labs
M4 Monopoly
Medic!
Mercs
Missiles
Money Money Money
Most Wanted
MRAP Edge
Net-Centric
Nukes
Old Skool
Our Shrinking Planet
Planes, Copters, Blimps
Podcast
Politricks
Polmar's Perspective
Popular Mechanics
Rapid Fire
Raptor Watch
Red Team
Retro-Futuro
Robots
Roll Your Own
Sabra Tech
Ships and Subs
Snipertech
Soldier Systems
Space
Special Ops
Star Wars
Strategery
Stray Trons
Tactical Development
Terror Tech
The Deadlies
The Defense Biz
The Peoples' Site
The Sunday Paper
The Tanker Tango
The View from Av Week
Those Nutty Norks
Training and Sims
Trimble on the Case
Video Lounge
War Update
Ward'z Wonderz
You can run...

See all Archives
Newsletters

Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Tanker Weekend Roundup

kc45.jpg

Controversy over the tanker deal continues to snowball as Boeing quietly waits for momentum against NG/EADS to build in its favor before launching a public assault on the deal.

Rep. John Murtha's hearing last week was downright embarrassing, with the HAC-D chairman lecturing Air Force officials on his ability to kank the deal on a whim -- "We appropriate the money, so you can't do anything if we tell you you can't" he basically said. Then Murtha went on to compare the Boeing loss to the Dubai Ports World deal, saying the reflexive, jingoistic, anti-trade reaction that scuttled that deal could rear its ugly head here again too.

Never shying away from a tap dance on the fringes of political polemics, he then pushed the start button on hanging the whole nefarious deal with NG/EADS on McCain's head:

"Because of the individual in the other body stopping what the Air Force had already approved to do ... is costing billions of dollars and we're at a point where we don't know how long it's going to take to get these things [KC-135s] out of the air..."

Lemme get this straight: You thought the Boeing lease deal that McCain exposed was a better idea than an open and fair competition for the replacement? Do you remember, Mr. Murtha, that deal lead to jailing of a Boeing official and the resignation of a couple more? Unbelievable.

Here's what our friends at Aviation Week had to say about the affect of the deal on Boeing bigwigs:

Arrogance about its relationship with the U.S. Defense Dept., lack of focus on customer requirements and reluctance to provide detailed pricing data contributed to Boeing's stunning loss late last month of a Pentagon contract to build aerial refuelers. "Boeing 'knew more than the customer' what the customer wanted, and in its arrogance it didn't listen," says a source close to the 767 tanker team. The proposal's executive group spent a lot of time "doing some soul-searching" as a result.

The defeat could bring on a wave of personnel changes for top executives involved in crafting the proposal. And it could reshape Boeing's business strategy for capturing U.S. defense work. The company lost the $300-billion Joint Strike Fighter program to Lockheed Martin in 2001 and, while it still has an active F/A-18 product line, it is unlikely to break back into the fighter market. Last year, Boeing's unmanned combat air system design lost to Northrop Grumman's X-47 in a Navy project.

While the company still has strong rotorcraft, space and missile defense businesses, its place among airframers is unclear.

And the New York Daily News has gotten into the fray:

Angry Boeing supporters are vowing revenge against Republican presidential candidate John McCain over Boeing's loss of a $35 billion Air Force tanker contract to European plane maker Airbus.

Boeing supporters in Congress are directing their wrath at the Arizona senator for scuttling an earlier deal that would have let Boeing build the next generation of Air Force refueling tankers.

"I hope the voters of this state remember what John McCain has done to them and their jobs," said Rep. Norm Dicks (D-Wash.), whose state would have been home to the tanker program and gained about 9,000 jobs.

McCain said he is keeping an open mind on the contract, but in the past he has boasted about his role in blocking a 2004 version that gave the contract to Boeing.

He has run ads touting his role in fighting "pork" such as the tanker project and cited it in a recent debate.

So let me get this straight...It is McCain's fault for exposing what many consider a criminal deal between the Air Force and Boeing? Why isn't the wrath being directed toward Boeing for its earlier finagling and for its loss based on the merits of the two competitors this time? Politics, my friends, politics...

And here's a Machiavellian strategy for you: maybe there won't be a resolution to this debate/controversy at all until after the election in November since it could prove useful as a campaign issue once the Democratic nominee is anointed. Since McCain is tied so directly to the tanker tango, why not keep it alive for a while to use on the stump in Red states that lost jobs in the deal?

(Thanks to NC for the gouge)

-- Christian

Comments

irtusk,

I never said there wasn't any shady deals that went on during the prior contract. In fact it was those shady deals which lead the cancellation of the previous contract & politicians dictating that Boeing could net be "given" the contract without another more extensive competition. I also never said it was a "fair" competition, how could it have been with one competitor being so obviously superior...

A better question is why would the USAF let Boeing "five months to rewrite the official specifications for 100 aerial refueling tankers"...And despite what the conspiracy theories say it was not because Congress told them to do so - rather it was becasue the USAF already knew what it wanted & that the 767 was the best fit. From your beloved hit-piece "...the e-mails and other documents show just how intent the Air Force was on steering the deal to Boeing..." The choice of the 767 over the A330 was based on a number of factors, many of which came about from the Tanker Requirements Study 2005 conducted in 2001 which determined what it was the USAF needed.

How many of the supposed "original" 26 capabilities were in the 2007 KC-X RFP? Better yet, how about you go though what the 26 capabilities & show how important they each are & how the KC-767 could not meet them but the KC-30 could...

Posted by: pfcem at March 13, 2008 06:51 PM


ok, i did some more digging on the Revised AE litter station requirement

while what i quoted as 3.2.11.11.3 is in fact what it currently is, it appears the section numbering got changed around from the draft

in the draft, here is what 3.2.11.11.3 said:

> The aircraft shall have the capability to accept the seat rail litter stanchions used on the C-17

i found the comparable text under secion 3.2.1.6.7.3 in the final RFP

> The aircraft shall be capable of using the existing Litter Station Augmentation Set (LSAS) (THRESHOLD).
> The LSAS is a kit containing 9 C-17 litter stations providing 27 litter positions.

neither plane should have a problem meating this

Posted by: irtusk at March 13, 2008 02:05 AM


> EADS offered the A330 for the previous lease deal & lost
> (& the USAF made it perfectly clear why).

no, McCain made it clear why after he found Boeing BRIBING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS

is there ANY other explanation for how they were given FIVE MONTHS to REWRITE the RFP to their liking while Airbus had 12 DAYS to write their bid?

please explain how that was a fair competition

you can't

it wasn't

> Politics dictated that the contract had to be rebid

how about simple ethics?

> because of the "shady" dealings of a few peole

i like how you put shady in quotes, as if it wasn't a big deal

HELLO, EARTH TO PFECM, WAKE THE HELL UP

two people went to jail, boeing's ceo resigned, it wasn't 'shady', it was rotten to the core

> Replaced sortie rate with enroute turn time requirements

just a different way of calculating the same thing

here's what the new language says:
> The KC-X shall be capable of an enroute turn time of three hours, 15 minutes for
> all-cargo missions. Time starts with the cargo door open on an empty aircraft
> with cargo loaders standing by and ends when the aircraft is fully loaded with
> pallets, the cargo is secured, the aircraft has been refueled to maximum gross
> weight, and routine scheduled thruflight maintenance is complete. Assume less
> than eight personnel, not including ground vehicle drivers, are available to
> accomplish the enroute turn.

so again, please explain how that unfairly favors the KC-30

that's right, YOU CAN'T

if anything that hurts the KC-30 because 'fully loaded with pallets' requires more pallets for the KC-30 than the KC-767

> Revised AE litter station requirement at 3.2.11.11.3

here is 3.2.11.11.3

> Additional capability of storing and maintaining cold beverages and meals,
> preparing hot beverages and reheating meals for a full passenger load shall
> be provided

wow, that's totally biased in favor of the KC-30!

> I provided a document which conclusively proves that to be false

the only thing you've conclusively proven is that
1. you still haven't read the article i linked
(here it is again, read it this time: http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Galloway_033104,00.html)
2. there were NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO ACCOMODATE EADS/NG

Posted by: irtusk at March 12, 2008 06:53 PM


irtusk,

You really are pathetic.

You continue to prove NOTHING but your own ignorance.

EADS offered the A330 for the previous lease deal & lost (& the USAF made it perfectly clear why).

Politics dictated that the contract had to be rebid & because of the "shady" dealings of a few peole in the previously won contract there HAD to be another cometition.

NG/EADS were not even going to bid for the new contract until the critera were changed so that their A330 would be competative (because under the existing criteria they knew it wasn't). Even after the criteria were changed (this was prior to the 15 Dec 2006 Draft RFP), NG/EADS threatened to pull their bid unless the criteria were "further revised/clearified" but the USAF having already bent over backwords to accomodate NG/EADS declined.

I never said the changes brtween the 15 Dec 2006 Draft RFP & 30 Jan 2007 RFP were major - in fact I said they were comparatively minor. But there are two itens in that summary which could (being that it is just a summery we do not know what the exact changes actually were) have benefitted NG/EADS...Replaced sortie rate with enroute turn time requirements at 3.1.9.3.1 and 3.1.9.3.2 &
Revised AE litter station requirement at 3.2.11.11.3. The point is you claim no changes were made - I provided a document which conclusively proves that to be false (& it only summerizes the changes between 15 Dec 2006 & 30 Jan 2007).

Posted by: pfcem at March 12, 2008 04:35 PM


> The program that has lead up to this existed (had been GIFTED TO BOEING) prior to 2006

FTFY

> They were changed/modified after the lease deal was cancelled & prior to 2006

are you seriously suggesting the AF should have used the RFP from the lease deal?

the RFP that Boeing had FIVE MONTHS to modify

the RFP were Boeing eliminated 19 of the 26 capabilities the Air Force originally wanted

is that the RFP you're holding up as the model of all that is good and holy?

yes, the RFP for this contest is quite different from that RFP, and that is a GOOD THING

> they had to just so that there would be another competion

who said anything about 'had to'? they originally wanted a more capable tanker (before Boeing removed all those requirements) and they went back to what THEY ORIGINALLY WANTED

> NG/EADS were not even going to bid otherwise

this line keeps getting bandied about but is absolutely false

in Dec 2006 / Jan 2007 they THREATENED to not bid if the USAF didn't change the RFP

the USAF called their bluff, made no changes, and EADS/NG bid anyways

you claim i'm spreading lies? well fell free to prove me wrong (please, no quotes from Dicks)

> were changed/modified again between the 2006 & the "final" 2007 RFP

the only change during 2006 was to 'refocus on the refuelling mission'

and if you think that favors EADS/NG, then i've made my point

> There was a prior deal to lease 100 tankers (later changed to leasing 20 & purchasing 80) which was won by Boeing.

and you accuse me of lying, lol

how can you POSSIBLY say they 'won'? it was a gift pure and simple

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Galloway_033104,00.html

> The 767 was determined to BY FAR be the better aircraft to replace the KC-135.

your ignorance/blindness is amusing, read the article and then come back and tell me with a straight face you still believe that

> For those interrested in just how wrong irtusk is, here is a SUMMARY
> of the CHANGES just from the 15 Dec 2006 Draft RFP & the 30 Jan 2007 RFP

i've read it and i'm not wrong

those are all minor details, administrative housecleaning

there is no bombshell gifting to EADS/NG, just standard corrections and clarifications

when i say 'no changes' i obviously don't literally mean 'the text is exactly the same'

i mean 'there were no substantive changes'

out of curiosity, which of those changes do you think were put there solely so EADS/NG would bid?

that's right, NONE OF THEM

Posted by: irtusk at March 12, 2008 09:57 AM


For those interrested in just how wrong irtusk is, here is a SUMMARY of the CHANGES just from the 15 Dec 2006 Draft RFP & the 30 Jan 2007 RFP (which are comparatively minor compared to the changes made up to the 15 Dec 2006 Draft RFP).

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/01/30/2003548546.pdf

Posted by: pfcem at March 11, 2008 10:37 PM


irtusk,

I am really getting fed up with yout LIES (& you calling the truth lies). The program that has lead up to this existed (had been competed for & won) prior to 2006. And the criteria were changed/modified a number of times. They were changed/modified after the lease deal was cancelled & prior to 2006 (they had to just so that there would be another competion because NG/EADS were not even going to bid otherwise) & were changed/modified again between the 2006 & the "final" 2007 RFP & were even changed/modified again shortly before NG/EADs was declared the winner.

There was a prior deal to lease 100 tankers (later changed to leasing 20 & purchasing 80) which was won by Boeing. The 767 was determined to BY FAR be the better aircraft to replace the KC-135. Unfortunately (as quite often happens) even after the 767 had been chosen over the A330 there were some individuals who felt they had to "sweeten" the deal to ensure it went through & benefitted "everyone" (others were just plain stupid).

Posted by: pfcem at March 11, 2008 03:00 PM


> Boeing had already won^H^H^HBEEN GIVEN the previous tanker contract

fixed that for ya

> And even after the competion critera were changed JUST SO THAT NG/EADS WOULD COMPETE

no they weren't

> what Boeing proposed met & exceeded all criteria

and the KC-30 exceeded it even further

> forced to change the criteria because the only other competitor threatened to not bid

no they didn't

EADS/NG threated to, but the AF called their bluff


> (because it had already lost & could assume would loose again otherwise)

you mean the one where Boeing was given FIVE MONTHS to rewrite the specifications to their liking and then EADS was given ONE WEEK to write a proposal?

> Unfortunately for Boeing the USAF had to judge the proposals based
> on the criteria they put in the final RFP & under those criteria
> the NG/EADS had a number of distinct advantage

yes, unfortunately for Boeing they had to compete on merit instead of being gifted the contract

poor Boeing

> (plus there is a very anti-Boeing sentiment within the KC-X decision committee)

do you enjoy just making stuff up?

> The choice of the A330 for the KC-X will (mark my words) FORCE the
> USAF to chose something more along the lines of the 767 for the KC-Z

once all the hangars accomodate the A330, pray tell what would be the compelling reason for a 767?

> Congress can do what they want....
>
> ...until the courts are involved

courts have no say over how congress spends money

> I wouldn't be surprised to see this go to the supreme court

not possible

> Or just awarded to boeing by act of congress.

possible

Posted by: irtusk at March 10, 2008 10:59 PM


Frank Shuler,

You may be right given that a KC-Y contender (intended to replace the KC-10) has now been chosen for the KC-X (intended to replace the oldest KC-135).

Posted by: pfcem at March 10, 2008 10:41 PM


I wouldn't be surprised to see this go to the supreme court. Or just awarded to boeing by act of congress.

Posted by: Rix at March 10, 2008 06:55 PM


pfcem:

If the NG/EADS order stands and their version of the KC-45 actually flies, I suspect the whole concept of Future Tanker X-Y-Z goes by the wayside. By removing the smaller tanker, the Boeing 767 size aircraft from the process, it’s very possible the entire inventory of USAF tankers will be one design. With almost 600 tankers to replace, it will be interesting to see how many new tankers will actually be ordered and make the fleet; my guess is no more than 400 or so. EADS has stated they will also consolidate the entire commercial-freighter-version business of the 330 to Mobile as well. We may see cargo versions of this aircraft built in small numbers for the USAF in the future. This is going to be a far reaching loss for Boeing.

Frank Shuler
USA

Posted by: Frank Shuler at March 10, 2008 04:08 PM


Congress can do what they want....

...until the courts are involved, and if the NG/EADS bid is blocked, i can definitely see it heading there.

Posted by: paco at March 10, 2008 04:04 PM


Harlequin:

Another advantage EADS had in this competition was that they had a working prototype of the exact aircraft they bid. The winning 330 design was based on the Australian version of the EADS 330 tanker that uses the larger wing of the Airbus 340. As stated, EADS also built a new boom to meet the USAF requirements for this competition. Boeing never built such a dedicated USAF prototype 767 and their new automatic refueling boom was still in R&D. The NG/EADS KC-45A was deemed to have lower risk than the Boeing product.

Frank Shuler
USA

Posted by: Frank Shuler at March 10, 2008 03:48 PM


Whareagle,

As Camp said only Boeing can say for sure why it offered the 767 & in the configuration it did but...

Boeing had already won the previous tanker contract but that contract was cancelled do to that questionable actions of Druyun & Sears and the USAF was forced to start over & recompete the contract.

And even after the competion critera were changed JUST SO THAT NG/EADS WOULD COMPETE, what Boeing proposed met & exceeded all criteria. My guess is that even though the USAF was forced to recompete the contract & forced to change the criteria because the only other competitor threatened to not bid (because it had already lost & could assume would loose again otherwise) that the USAF would still choose the 767 as they did previously (since it is obviously the right aircraft for the job).

Unfortunately for Boeing the USAF had to judge the proposals based on the criteria they put in the final RFP & under those criteria the NG/EADS had a number of distinct advantages (plus there is a very anti-Boeing sentiment within the KC-X decision committee).

My problem is not with NG/EADS or the A330 derived tanker they proposed - it is/will be a quite capable tanker & serve the USAF well (within the limitations its weight/size dictate). My problem is that it is the wrong aircraft for the KC-X program. The choice of the A330 for the KC-X will (mark my words) FORCE the USAF to chose something more along the lines of the 767 for the KC-Z (the KC-Y is to replace the KC-10 & should be a larger aircraft with greater fuel & cargo capacity) & with the nature of the airline business there may not even be a commercial airliner that fits the bill by then so the KC-Z may end up having to be an all-new airframe designed from the ground up to not only replace the remaining KC-135 but all military 707-based aircraft.

Posted by: pfcem at March 10, 2008 03:34 PM


Frank Shuler

Boeing developed the KC767 based upon the requirements they wrote for the usaf 10 years ago for the lease to buy ; this got scrapped and a new RFP came out stressing they wanted airframes that could fly further , with more cargo/fuel/people - boeing then chose to offer the KC767 even though they knew it was up against the A330.

boeing dropped the ball but will use all the lobbying it can to get there out of date product purchased; but look at all the issues with the 7late7 to see how much they messed up.

Posted by: Harlequin at March 10, 2008 03:29 PM


Good Morning Folks,

All the pi**ing and bit**ing aside the Aie Force and Boeing are still locked in a cold war mentality. Reality say that future conflicts will be fought in land lock countries of South Asia and a Pacificcentric defense stratigy in the future, the EADS Airbus 330 has the range and the additional capacity that the 767 simply just lacks furl capacity and endurence/range to meet these projected needs.

The argument about runways is a non starter. The Air Force just doesn't put fueling depots in hazardious areas, and as far as the ability to carry 19 pallets vs. 6 and 90 more passengers along with more fuel for it's customers makes the Airbus 330 a no brainer.

The bonus could be with higher capacity and a shrinking Air Force the tanker demand might drop from 500 to say 300 a savings for the tax payer.

The jobs issue seems to be a zero sum deal. For every job lost by Boeing (or jobs that don't yet exist but would have) a job will be created by Northrop/Grumman only in a different part of the country.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at March 10, 2008 02:05 PM


Boeing has been actively developing the B767 as a tanker for the last ten years as the successor to the KC-135 series. It is now actively being built and delivered to Japan and Italy. All corporate future tanker development funds have gone to this platform because Boeing decided this was the best aircraft in its inventory for the tanker role and worldwide sales. EADS made the same business decision regarding its Airbus 330 series aircraft after winning contracts in Great Britain, Saudi Arabia and Australia. EADS took a look at its inventory of platforms and made the same business call on the 330 as Boeing did on the 767. EADS put all its future tanker development funds into the 330 to the extent they even built a custom automatic refueling boom for the 330 with their own money. Request for proposals from the USAF are not tied to a specific platform but more to its perceived needs. The Air Force stated their needs in the request and the vendors respond with their best proposal based on how their product met the Air Force need, with their lowest cost, an explanation of manufacturing risk, delivery schedules, and related findings. The Air Force selects the winner and issues a development contract for initial production of test aircraft to validate the proposal. If successful, the Air Force then commits for a production contract and series production of operational aircraft is commenced.

Boeing had no more time to develop the 777 as a tanker than did EADS, say, for the 320. Both vendors took their best shot with the aircraft they decided were their best hope for worldwide sales. Both decisions were influenced by corporate politics, Boeing wanted to keep the 767 in production for the US military as commercial sales were dwindling and the line scheduled to close.

It is a tough loss for Boeing. The stockholders face the end of the 767 line and also the premature closing of the C-17 line in California as the new Northrop-Grumman KC-45As cargo ability will supplement the C-17s in inventory and remove the need for future C-17s beyond what the Air Force has generally requested.

If the NG-EADS tanker was such a political mistake, Congress should never have let them bid on the project in the first place. However, if the goal was to provide the USAF the best tanker for the best price, I think they got it right.

Frank Shuler
USA

Posted by: Frank Shuler at March 10, 2008 01:49 PM


Whareagle


the 767 `frakentanker` being offered is about the limit of what they can do with the 30 year old airframe - it takes bits from the -200, -300 , -400 and freighter versions (and isn`t actually built yet either)

the japanise aircraft isn`t the same as the boeing offering.

Posted by: Harlequin at March 10, 2008 01:38 PM


Whareagle,

Only Boeing can answer that. It may have something to do with this:

"But Barksdale said Boeing doesn't yet have a preference, despite having already sunk about $1 billion into developing the 767 variant."

"777 to be Boeing's alternative proposal for tanker" (September 26, 2006)
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003275629_777tanker26.html

Also, I have yet to see a time table on which the KC-777 could have been produced. Heck, according to StrategyPage, "49 of the AirBus tankers... by 2013, [vs] only 19 of the Boeing version...". And the 767 is a smaller aircraft.

Posted by: Camp at March 10, 2008 01:35 PM


There is a lengthy report in Flight this week where US politicians are quoted as saying "this is not a done deal, all we have to do is stop the money and it is dead" and even talk of changing the law for defence bids. How can this be right just because the USAF wants the best tanker it can get?

Posted by: Harlequin at March 10, 2008 01:16 PM


Okay, I guess my only question is, Why wasn't Boeing encouraged to present either a larger or longer-range 767 airframe, or the trip7? Is there evidence pointing to active persuasion against a KC 7^3?

From what I know (and I know an Aero Engineer who was instrumental on the wing of the 67 and 77), from performance standpoints, the Boeing products really do win hands-down. It's just the 'other' stuff (like COST) that hurts them.

Something is rotten about this deal. I'm not so much against the KC-45, but I am suspicious that Boeing 'mis-read' the request to such a large degree. "Wha' Happened?"

Posted by: Whareagle at March 10, 2008 11:05 AM


If murtha talked to me like that i would deck his old ass in the throat. that loser knows nothing about airborne refueling ops and to tell the airforce what plane they need according because hes getting kick backs from boeing is bullshit.

Posted by: slntax at March 10, 2008 10:51 AM


Over the past week, I've slowly become strongly convinced to support the EADS/Airbus side of this deal.

Posted by: Benjamin Fan at March 10, 2008 10:24 AM


From what I've read EADS/Northrup offered a better aircraft & sooner... Why Boeing didn't, is beyond me. StrategyPage sums it up...

"The two big factors were superior performance (fewer of the AirBus aircraft were needed to get the job done) and more reliable performance of the suppliers."

"49 of the AirBus tankers would be available by 2013, only 19 of the Boeing version would be ready."

"The KC-30 carries 20 percent more fuel than the other candidate, the KC-767, plus more cargo pallets (26 versus 19) and passengers.Thus the KC-30 can stay in the air longer, while transferring more fuel."

"How AirBus Beat Boeing"
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc/articles/20080309.aspx

also..

"Breaking Silence About the B-3"
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20080310.aspx

Posted by: Camp at March 10, 2008 10:07 AM


BLAME BOEING MANAGEMENT!
When it becomes impossible to imagine losing, it becomes impossible to compete. Boeing has a history of cheating which cost the jobs of their CEO, and CFO, and sent a senior DOD buyer to jail over a previous tanker deal. Defense procurement is badly broken. Congress interferes and micromanages way too much, and DOD doesn't demand value or accountability. Defense contractors take advantage of an inefficient, esoteric system which encourages incestuous relationships. Sixty percent of procurement dollars are non-competitively awarded under large "umbrella" cost-plus contracts to avoid the requisition process. Congress protects defense contractors at the expense of national defense, and fiscal security. Dept. of Defense destroys its credibility by consistently going substantially over budget, behind schedule, and even under performance guidelines. The following major programs have at least 2 of those 3 failures: Boeing /Bell V-22, General Dynamics Expeditonary Fighting Vehicle, Lockheed F-35, CSAR-X award protest delay, Lockheed & General Dynamics Litoral Combat Ship, Boeing Future Combat Systems, Lockheed/ Northrop DEEPWATER cutter replacement, Bell Armed Recon Heli., Bell huey & cobra rebuild, Lockheed/ General Dynamics DDX destroyer, Northrop/ Eurocopter VH 71 Presidential helicopter, with new carriers and manned bombers to come. These programs represent over several $100 Billions, and don't include most defense procurement spending. WHILE WE HAVE THE MOST CAPABLE MILITARY, WE SPEND MORE THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED.There are no effectve institutional incentives within DOD to protest, economize, or reform, and resisting the whims of congress may be career ending. This system is rotten to the core. Although the fear and outrage of Boeing dependents, including congressmen, is understandable, on the part of the American people it is pitiful. Do we enjoy being robbed? It is no less tragic than televangelists telling us to, 'plant that seed.'. The Department of Defense shows some courage, and John McCain is going to be crucified for defending us. We desperately need performance based, fixed-cost contracts. The crisis in Congress, and D.O.D. is every bit as serious as our economic predicament, and no one is being held accountable.
Rather than competing, Boeing counted on its domestic status, and lobbying clout in a presidential election year.

Posted by: lance d logue at March 10, 2008 09:07 AM


All these senators telling whats best for our air force. Jesus christ let the air force do its dam job.

As for blaming McCain, that is just rediculous. Obviously there was foul play, or there wouldn't have been a 600m+ fine, as well as two (three?) people in jail. We are willing to accept a lesser product and laziness when it comes wrapped in am American flag?

Posted by: paul at March 10, 2008 08:38 AM


Post a comment




Remember Me?


Please enter the code as seen in the image below to post your comment.