Subscribe via RSS

Archives by Date
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008

See all Archives
Archives by Category
'Canes
Afghan Update
Ammo and Munitions
Armor
Around the Globe
Av Week Extra
Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
Bizarro
Blimps
Blog Bidness
Body Armor Blues
Bomb Squad
Brownshoes in Action
Bubbleheads, etc.
Cammo Green
Catch the "Buzz"
Chem-Bio
Civilian Apps
Cloak and Dagger
Commandos
Comms
Contingency Ops
Cops and Robbers
Cyber-warfare
Data Diving
Defense Tech Poll
Dissent Tech
Door Kickers
Drones
DT Administrivia
Eat DT's Dust
Extra! Extra!
Eye on China
Fast Movers
FCS Watch
Fire for Effect
FOS Files
Friday Funnies
Gadgets and Gear
Going Green
Grand Ole Osprey
Ground Vehicles
Guns
Homeland Security
In the Weeds with Eric
Info War
Iraq Diary
Jarhead Jazz
JSF Watch
Just War Theories
Lasers and Ray Guns
Less-lethal
Logistics
Los Alamos and Labs
M4 Monopoly
Medic!
Mercs
Missiles
Money Money Money
Most Wanted
MRAP Edge
Net-Centric
Nukes
Old Skool
Our Shrinking Planet
Planes, Copters, Blimps
Politricks
Polmar's Perspective
Popular Mechanics
Rapid Fire
Raptor Watch
Red Team
Retro-Futuro
Robots
Roll Your Own
Sabra Tech
Ships and Subs
Snipertech
Space
Special Ops
Star Wars
Strategery
Stray Trons
Tactical Development
Terror Tech
The Deadlies
The Defense Biz
The Peoples' Site
The Sunday Paper
The Tanker Tango
The View from Av Week
Those Nutty Norks
Training and Sims
Trimble on the Case
Video Lounge
War Update
Ward'z Wonderz
You can run...

See all Archives
Newsletters

Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

Lobby Worries About Saudi F-35s

saudi-f5.jpg

In 1992, the first line combat air strength of the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) consisted of approximately 200 aircraft, organized into six fighter/ground-attack squadrons and five fighter-air defense squadrons. However, the RSAF declined during the 1990s' as the Kingdom's F-5EIIs and F-5s lost substantial operational capability.

In September 2007, Saudi Arabia and Britian signed a deal for the sale of 72 Eurofighter Typhoon fighter aircraft for 4.43bn (British pounds). The deal followed a 21bn al-Yamamah contract negotiated by the Thatcher government and involving the sale of BAE Systems Tornado jets and medical equipment.

Now, the US is reportedly considering a sale of the advanced stealth F-35 Lightning II to Saudi Arabia. In an effort to maintain military superiority, Israel has asked the Bush administration to purchase the the F-22 Raptor, despite the fact that foreign sales of the aircraft are currently banned by Congress.

In addition, Israeli defense officials have requested two new advanced JDAM models (laser-guided and immune to jamming) to offset the standard JDAM smart-bomb kits sold to Saudi Arabia that converts existing 500-, 1,000- and 2,000-pound unguided free-fall bombs into accurately guided "smart" weapons.

Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., has expressed concern over US arms sales to Saudi Arabia, noting that the Kingdom “has not been a true ally in furthering the United States interests in the Middle East,” and noted that “about 40 percent of all foreign fighters [in Iraq] are Saudi.”

However, according to US Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States will “help bolster forces of moderation and support a broader strategy to counter the negative influences of al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran."

Nevertheless, Daryl G. Kimball of the Arms Control Association has compared the Bush administration arms sales policy of “sell, sell, sell” to throwing “gasoline on a brush fire.”

The possibility of a rogue pilot or the eventual overthrow of the Saudi regime also concerns officials and analysts. Dr. Michael Donovan of the CDI emphasized that “as of Sept. 11, [Saudi] stability can no longer be taken for granted...The Islamic values upon which they based their authority for so long are now, seemingly, in conflict with forces they could not control even if they chose to do so.”

(Gouge: NC)

-- Aharon Etengoff

Comments

新奇特批发 http://www.jsxqt88.com
新奇特产品 http://www.xqt007.cn
成人玩具 http://www.jsxqt88.com/tupianl.htm
剪板机  http://www.jxwjs.cn
弩 http://www.jsxqt88.com/indexi.htm
乳化机 http://www.ntdyjx.cn
过滤器 http://www.dryent.com
卷板机 http://www.nthljc.cn
弓弩    http://www.gongnuw.cn
弓弩   http://www.gongnuw.com
通风机 http://www.qdwdl.com.cn
剪板机  http://www.ntjixie.com
三面翻  http://www.gr-door.com
混合机 http://www.85399888.cn
搅拌机 http://www.85399888.cn/jiaobanji-01.html
呼吸阀 http://www.ntdyjx.cn/product_29.html
阻火器 http://www.ntdyjx.cn/product_26.html

Posted by: 弓弩 at September 14, 2008 06:23 AM


After entering into the RF game, I picked up the weapons with no rf gold which was gave as a present by systems and began a new journey.

Posted by: rf gold at September 9, 2008 12:27 AM


Buy Rolex replica? Funny

Posted by: Rolex-replica at September 2, 2008 10:56 AM


[url=http://www.dearwatches.com]replica watches[/url]

Posted by: replica watches at August 29, 2008 10:10 PM


[url=http://www.dearwatches.com]replica watches[/url]

Posted by: replica watches at August 29, 2008 10:07 PM


One of the most interesting and possibly the best aspect of Runescape’s game play is its wilderness section and Runescape Pking. So what is Runescape Pking? Well Pking stands for Player Killing. So basically it’s where you enter the Runescape wilderness and attempt to kill other Runescape players. This of course is much more interesting that killing the regular NPC monsters of Runescape because you are fighting a living, thinking and creative person on the other side.

http://www.rs2-coins.com
http://www.rs2-coins.com/index.html
http://www.cheap-msmesos.com
http://www.cheap-msmesos.com/index.html
http://www.allgametrade.com

Posted by: ms at August 24, 2008 02:12 AM


replica rolex watches

Posted by: replica rolex watches at August 21, 2008 11:13 PM


rolex replica watches

Posted by: rolex replica watches at August 21, 2008 10:05 PM


How can people say how superior of an aircraft the f22 is and then say they are considering selling it to even our best friends. Why not sell the B2 stealth, V22 osprey and latest and prized possession of US military hardware so that it can be reversed engineered and some of it's attributes made obsolete. Unless there is something more advanced then the f22. I'm confused, some secrets are kept secrets even to best of friends. Even to your spouse or parents. Is greed and money that important to compromise US security.

Posted by: replicas watches at August 20, 2008 11:23 PM


Omega gold watch - Don't miss our great warranty offers on luxury watches. Posted in Omega Pocket Watch by admin on the November 21st, 2007
replica watches
replica watch
rolex replicas
rolex replica
This article will help you understand why some watches are more desirable then others and how to buy a new watch, especially a replica of a famous brand. You will .A Personal (Watch strap omega) Review of Rado Watches. Posted in Omega Replica ... Rado watches have cornered the niche for upmarket watches that are different .

Posted by: replicas watches at August 20, 2008 11:22 PM


asdfasdf gege

Posted by: runescape at August 14, 2008 04:15 PM


Second Life http://www.secondlife-linden.com(非常重要)
It is free, with option to pay option to pay for additional features of SL linden. Here is about what is Second Life. Let's come here to understand the depth of Second Life Lineden. Instead you have to apply your own second life money real life skills in Second Life in order to succeed. On this game. The Second life linden is very much more useful. You can use several Secondlife linden to buy your equipment and upgrade level. If you want to buy second life linden and need very cheap SL linden I suggest that you can go to the company http://www.gameim.com.

Posted by: Second Life linden at August 13, 2008 08:27 PM


I remembered that when after registering a login name and password on the Silkroad gold game from Web site http://www.gameim.com. Now I cherish the memory of my better friend who once help me and give me much more Silk road gold when I was in economic hardship and have no sro gold. Trader Association where one can buy Silkroad online gold a Trader Flag, which is required to buy sro gold trade. Shop where one buys cheap silkroad gold and sells trader goods.

Posted by: Silkroad Gold at August 13, 2008 08:25 PM


TIBIA http://www.tibia-gp.com(非常重要)
Even with a slow internet Tibia Gold connection downloading the client is a matter of minutes. Characters have a variety of Tibia coins skills that will raise through training. All items are unique and come to buy Tibia Gold with their own characteristics and graphics. A balanced set of rules ensures that cheap Tibia coins does not sink into anarchy while giving great freedom to players. I didn't hesitate to think more time and try playing at once. Now I love the Tibia money Game very much.

Posted by: Tibia Gold at August 13, 2008 08:13 PM


It is may be useful for some people who like playing the RS Gold. At last if you want to buy this New RS game and want to buy your favourite equipment to buy runescape gold. I can tell you a good website http://www.gameim.com which my good friends told me they said that the company always provides Cheap runescape Gold and several runescape money. Now if I want to use Runescape Gold I will Buy Runescape from the above website. I hope that we will play together with the new RS happily.

Posted by: RS Gold at August 13, 2008 08:11 PM


This world, I kill a person that need so much strengthen, maybe I have no enough holic gold. I think so. Therefore, I only could give up.

Posted by: holic gold at August 11, 2008 07:53 PM


Every time, when I received the imvu credits, I always gave them to you.

Posted by: imvu credits at August 11, 2008 07:52 PM


I was excited, originally it was such simple, and it also needs a little cheap mabinogi.

Posted by: cheap mabinogi at August 11, 2008 07:50 PM


I was excited, originally it was such simple, and it also needs a little cheap mabinogi.

Posted by: cheap mabinogi at August 11, 2008 07:49 PM


In the hero2, I had already changed 4 regions. The hero online gold also has changed several times.

Posted by: hero online gold at August 11, 2008 07:47 PM


Remember we just met with each other by chance, we practiced the level and made last chaos gold together.

Posted by: last chaos gold at August 11, 2008 07:45 PM


Now, you have Hellgate London Palladium and you might buy tens of billions experience values.

Posted by: Hellgate London Palladium at August 11, 2008 07:43 PM


Your reality husband can buy LOTRO Gold for you, but I also can be.

Posted by: buy LOTRO Gold at August 11, 2008 07:41 PM


I know that you are not a sloppy person, you have your aspiration, have your ideal. You will not care the game Habbo gold. Therefore you are doomed to leave Habbo, leave friends who these share some hardships, and leave me who am lonely apprentice.

Posted by: Habbo gold at August 11, 2008 07:32 PM


Many people think that Meisha good kill. The sense of aversion to the, No friends (pegged out) and of course there will be no joy. No maple story mesos, you will not feel happy! I just like playing a few career, spent a total of 100 to block it.


Posted by: maple story mesos at August 8, 2008 03:19 AM


In fact, we take the risk on the island for what, mesos, what the plan is, is not happy? Of course, you can buy cheap mesos in my game, not blindly upgrading; if training wash your face as its own estimates BOSS can see a mirror.

Posted by: mesos at August 8, 2008 03:16 AM


Our island adventure, hope for a better, as if the joy of childhood when the growth to continue in pursuit of that future, ~ can step by step, the development of advanced, it, of our time, the motherland Time, the world's time, gradually the past, our childhood memory of ~~~ happy time! We have to remember that to purchase maple mesos, to facilitate our task to do!

Posted by: maple mesos at August 8, 2008 03:14 AM


With a goods Quhuan mabinogi gold, first came to the grocery store in front of Ottawa and special, and he said to me Lengleng later time come back to patronize his store, watching his thin face, and reached the only pocket 1 money, the relentless heart, or do not buy today Gelinasi mother-in-law’s delicious breakfast.

Posted by: mabinogi gold at August 7, 2008 07:11 PM


Remember that when we play together, I use my NosTale money to buy needed goods, I breeze Chuifu delicate face, mind you and I are known in the region……

Posted by: NosTale money at August 7, 2008 07:09 PM


We reduced their need for aircraft when we destroyed the Iraqi Air Force. The only air force an F-35 is legitimately necessary to counter is Israel's and there is no point in fueling both sides of the Saudi-Israel arms race.

Posted by: 出会い at August 7, 2008 04:03 AM


On this game, I have accumulated much 12Sky Silver Coins have more experience of this game.

Posted by: Twelve sky Gold at August 5, 2008 08:43 PM


In order to make a little bit of hundreds of thousands of eve isk, I commanded all of the staff hung up the number on the computer, and help me mine the mining.

Posted by: eve isk at August 4, 2008 07:43 PM


I as if could also recall minding initially your appearance because of have no dofus kamas, and then you met misfortune.

Posted by: dofus kamas at August 4, 2008 07:41 PM


Afterward my several schoolmates forced me to play; I did not want to sweep their interests, and to play, from the very beginning they have given me 100,000,000 cronous cro.

Posted by: cronous cro at August 4, 2008 07:39 PM


ROSE Online is an interplanetary fairy-tale MMORPG that immerses players in an embattled world where gods wage war for control over seven different Rose zuly planets. Each planet has it own set of particular environments, rules, laws and characteristics. Players can actively affect the outcome of each planet, and are able to climb the local power ladder to use as a basis of invading other planets through force or subterfuge rose zulie.

Posted by: ROSE at August 2, 2008 03:50 AM


ROSE Online is an interplanetary fairy-tale MMORPG that immerses players in an embattled world where gods wage war for control over seven different Rose zuly planets. Each planet has it own set of particular environments, rules, laws and characteristics. Players can actively affect the outcome of each planet, and are able to climb the local power ladder to use as a basis of invading other planets through force or subterfuge rose zulie.

Posted by: ROSE at August 2, 2008 03:45 AM


ROSE Online is an interplanetary fairy-tale MMORPG that immerses players in an embattled world where gods wage war for control over seven different Rose zuly planets. Each planet has it own set of particular environments, rules, laws and characteristics. Players can actively affect the outcome of each planet, and are able to climb the local power ladder to use as a basis of invading other planets through force or subterfuge rose zulie.

Posted by: ROSE at August 2, 2008 03:25 AM


http://www.replicaseller.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-pens/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Chanel/
http://www.replicaseller.com/MontBlanc/
http://www.watcheschannel.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/forums/
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/paypal-payment.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/panerai-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-breitling.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-cartier-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/omega-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex-watches.html

Posted by: fake watch at June 30, 2008 04:34 AM


http://www.replicaseller.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-pens/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Chanel/
http://www.replicaseller.com/MontBlanc/
http://www.watcheschannel.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/forums/
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/paypal-payment.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/panerai-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-breitling.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-cartier-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/omega-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex-watches.html

Posted by: imitation watch at June 30, 2008 04:33 AM


http://www.replicaseller.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-pens/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Breitling/
http://www.replicaseller.com/TagHeuer/
http://www.replicaseller.com/Chanel/
http://www.replicaseller.com/MontBlanc/
http://www.watcheschannel.com
http://www.replicaseller.com/forums/
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/paypal-payment.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/panerai-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-breitling.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-cartier-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/rolex-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/omega-replica-watches.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-watches-sale.html
http://www.replicaseller.com/replica-rolex-watches.html

Posted by: imitation watch at June 30, 2008 04:31 AM


wow power leveling http://www.coolingame.com
wow powerleveling http://www.coolingame.com
world of warcraft power leveling http://www.coolingame.com
ffxi power leveling http://www.coolingame.com
ffxi powerleveling http://www.coolingame.com
ffxi http://www.coolingame.com/ffxi-gil.php
ffxi gil http://www.coolingame.com/ffxi-gil.php
lotro powerlevelinghttp://www.coolingame.com/powerleveling/index.php?gid=14
lotro power leveling http://www.coolingame.com/powerleveling/index.php?gid=14
lotro gold http://www.coolingame.com/lotro-gold.php

Posted by: wow power leveling at May 26, 2008 01:45 AM


The F-35 JSF will be the most security compromised jet in history. Better start thinking about a fourth export "configuration" that is really dumbed down.

Posted by: ELP at April 16, 2008 02:06 PM


And...a RCS the size of a golfball. :)

Posted by: pfcem at April 15, 2008 10:10 PM


Vitor,

According to the latest official/unclassified data the empty weight of the production F-35A is 26,664 lbs with an internal fuel capacity of 18,307 lbs. That SHOULD put "normal" take-off weight with max internal fuel, two AMRAAM & two 2000 lb JDAM at ~50,000 lbs (~40,000 lbs in air-to-air configuration with a reduced but still very respectable 12,000 lbs of internal fuel).

What makes you think that maneuverability is the BE-ALL-AND-END-ALL of fighter capability? Do you not realize that there ARE in fact several other factors to a fighter's capability? Even if you ignor stealth, the F-35 will outclass the Typhoon in most categories.

Even at this early stage the F-35 test pilots have indicated that they are fully confident that the F-35 will be MORE maneuverable than the F-16 (the F-16 is STILL the standard by with fighter maneuverability is judged & in fact the maneuverability of the F-16 EXCEEDS the capabilities of most pilots).

While I am sure most would probably conceed that the Eurofigher is more maneuverable in "airshow condition" than the F-35 in "airshow condition", the two in "combat condition" will likely be closer than you think. Most would still likely give a slight edge to the Eurofighter in pure air-to-air condition (at least once it loses its drop tanks anyway).

There is NOTHING mediocre about the F-35. It carries more fuel internally than a Eurofighter carries WITH three drop tanks! More fuel internally than a F-14 or F-15 - the only fighters which carry more internal fuel are the significantly larger F-15E (with CFTs), F-22 & Flanker. Its sensor suite will be the most advanced in the world & it is capable of carrying more than 5,000 lbs of weapons INTERTNALLY. Oh & 28,000 lbs of dry thrust/43,000 lbs with afterburner. All that in a package smaller than a F/A-18A-D!

Posted by: pfcem at April 15, 2008 09:50 PM


Except for stealthness, eh! Except for that "bullet" a sword is way more effective than a machine gun. And im Italian and i love the EF.

Lets not forget, tho, that export JSF will be significantly downgraded. The only full capable JSFs will be USA's and UK's (maybe). I expect that third tier JSF (being the first tier USA and UK, second tier the other JSF project countries,) will have a even more down/de/graded stealth/software versions, and their RCS somewhat tagged.

Moreover, i wont be that sure that reversal engineering would be *that* easy. Iran got Shaw's F-15 for 20 years and got nothing.

Not precisely a piece of cake, but something to think about (when you need desperately money and oil).

Posted by: Maffa at April 15, 2008 05:31 PM


DFW,

"You know, this forum used to have some great intelligent discussions. It's REALLY gone downhill over the last 6 months. "

Hear, hear! Well said, DFW! :)

Posted by: WR at April 15, 2008 03:47 PM


So...finally getting on topic..I doubt the saudis would team up with Iran. There are a lot of bitterness between them. Well, that actually happens with most of Islam.

Posted by: Vitor at April 15, 2008 03:43 PM


Victor you are missing my point. You are making a comparison in a thread that has nothing to do with your comparison. But since we can't seem to keep it on topic... No I don't believe that. If that were the case then the j-11 wouldn't be a carbon copy of the su-27. I'm not saying that china doesn't have some capabilities, but they have many quality and manufacturing issues which are necessities if a stealth aircraft is to be successful. I don't believe even Britain has the stealth technique down pact hense them signing on to the JSF. The concepts may be there but that doesn't give you the know how. But back on topic, I don't believe we should sell the Saudi's another thing. I agree with most on the board, that they haven't done enough to prevent terrorism. It sickens me to have them threaten Isreal. We don't even import that much oil from SA, we import more from a host of nations on our hemisphere.

Posted by: Greg at April 15, 2008 03:16 PM


The fundaments of stealth is well understood nowdays by China and Russia, but Russia has a tight budget, what prevents futher development, but the moment that China really want to go stealth, they will.

Posted by: Vitor at April 15, 2008 02:22 PM


The Saudi's are our FRIENDS! Yeah right!

Posted by: Festus_1961 at April 15, 2008 12:22 PM


You know, this forum used to have some great intelligent discussions. It's REALLY gone downhill over the last 6 months.

Posted by: DFW at April 15, 2008 12:14 PM


Honestly Victor what does that have to do with anything. You are just posting pure non-sense. This article is not about the sale of the Eurofighter to Saudi Arabia, its about us selling stealth jsf to SA. Yes it may be more maneuverable then the JSF but that wasn't the intent of the JSF. I don't think Britain is worrying to much of stealing Maneuverability, but we honestly would like to keep the technology from the techno thieves china.

Posted by: greg at April 15, 2008 09:53 AM


"Leave it to Bush and Cheney to do something this idiotic should they get it to go through. Sell the top of the line stuff that even our own forces are not even equipped with yet. And then watch Saudi Arabia go the way of Iran and suddenly Russia and China also now have their hands on our latest for reverse engineering."

You've got it all backwards: The "threat" of F-35's or -22's or -whatevers in nefarious swarthy is a BONUS. Future LockMart/Boeing/Raytheon disinfo, er, "marketing" campaigns will practically write themselves!

Posted by: sglover at April 15, 2008 09:44 AM


Reasons why the EF is better than the F-35...maybe because its much more agile and not ridiculously heavy? Just the fact that the F-35 manages to be heavier than the much larger F-22 is already intriguing...

The F-35 is the embodiment of mediocrity. I remember a guy trying to defend the F-35 with the argument that it was "so manuverable as a F-16". My god! Manuverable as a plane made 30 years ago?! Amazing!! There is nothing that stands out on the F-35 except for the fact that is stealth.

Oh, the EF is already operational, while the F-35 is getting more expensive everyday...

Posted by: Vitor at April 15, 2008 09:34 AM


Leave it to Bush and Cheney to do something this idiotic should they get it to go through. Sell the top of the line stuff that even our own forces are not even equipped with yet. And then watch Saudi Arabia go the way of Iran and suddenly Russia and China also now have their hands on our latest for reverse engineering.

Why worry about the little items sold on ebay like night vision goggles and uniforms when all you need to do it talk to our president and he will sell you the latest technology we have.. including items not even in production yet!

Posted by: Todd at April 15, 2008 09:27 AM


This is the Saudi situation. The current Saudi government is as friendly as they can be, given their situation. They want to continue to sell us oil, so they can continue to be rich. They also allow the crazies to preach the wacko version of islam, so they can maintain their power.

We want the current Saudi government to maintain their power, because they ensure oil flow. Sometimes you have to go to bed with the devil, unfortunately.

Posted by: Brian at April 15, 2008 09:23 AM


The Israelis care for nothing but themselves and their own goals and will stop at nothing to attain their goals.....the Liberty is a great example.....Johnathan Pollard compromised American National Security and the Israelis want him pardoned and released so they can throw him a parade....we are just a means to an ends for the Israelis.

Posted by: CR at April 15, 2008 09:13 AM


hell yea paulb

i also agree saudis are headed to civil war most of the terrorist are funded by saudi rulers not ppl.

Also if we were in a war for survival dont you think or atleast hope that if a ship was off our waters giving info to the enemy theyd find a asntiship missile up there ass?

Posted by: James at April 15, 2008 06:30 AM


I was in the Persian Gulf back in 79 when the hostages were taken. I was on board the USS LaSalle COMIDEASTFORCE and the F-4's that we had sold to Iran were tracking us. I agree with everyone else don't sell our enemies short they will use our own weapons against us at the drop of a hat.You make an aircraft spending billions to keep it a secret and then sell your enemy one what kind of stupid thinking is that.
Army/Navy vet......

Posted by: paulb at April 15, 2008 06:05 AM


"How many times has the Saudi military attacked a US naval vessel, killed US sailors, and lied about it?"

Forgot about those Israeli madrassas churning out fresh suicide bombers to blow up our troops and put bitchin' new skylights in our skyscrapers.

But then again, the Zionist Pig-dogs carried out 9-11, so I guess its cool then, right, chief?

Posted by: Vercingetorix at April 15, 2008 12:58 AM


after we go into Iran it will be the Saudis turn. I would hate to be fighting against our own tanks and planes when the time comes. we hand our enemies the guns they use to shoot us in the back. makes perfect sense.
thank you george bush
from an
Iraqi Freedom veteran

Posted by: jarrid at April 14, 2008 11:13 PM


This is the biggest mistake ever. As was mentioned, we sold F-15's and 16' to Israel to defend against islamic nations.
F-15's to Saudi to counter Iraq. Iraq is no longer a viable fighting force so why sell them the JSF? Big Biz! If the Shaw of Iran weapons deal of 50+ f-14's taught us anything, never sell your best to a fair weather friend.I think Saudi is well on it's way to civil war Their gov. says one thing the people do another. let them get their stuff from our Russian friends. Then we know when the day comes to make them understand our resolve, we aren't fighting our own equipment.
And that day is coming.

Posted by: Sgt Harvey at April 14, 2008 11:00 PM


I urge NO sales to Saudis.
Come clean on terrorisim issues, Denounce Militant Islam & dont Fund terror groups.
& expand Oil Production.
Otherwise NO.
Can use planes on our forces & Israel alone.
Let Israel have some F22s & F35s.
Give them the Good Planes.

How do we know Saudis wont use planes in combat or issue to allies for use IE Iran.

Posted by: stephen russell at April 14, 2008 10:43 PM


Vitor,

Care to provide ANY reasoning for your THINKING that except for the "stealthness", the EF is clearly superior to the F-35...

Posted by: pfcem at April 14, 2008 10:41 PM


How many times has the Saudi military attacked a US naval vessel, killed US sailors, and lied about it?

Not too much 'what if' to fret about there.

Posted by: Joe at April 14, 2008 10:34 PM


It has to be comforting to Israel to know that the next war could happen without their knowing until the first bombs fell.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at April 14, 2008 09:31 PM


Tell our friends the Saudi's too bad and
"tough luck". They refuse to give us even a little break on the price of oil and we should sell them our top of the line planes? Crapola.

Posted by: Kepmeister at April 14, 2008 09:08 PM


People forget the reasons for Israeli concern. Israelis remember that before the 1967 war, the French, who were their major aircraft supplier at the time, cut them off. Israel had to attack and win in six days because the French had cut off their spare parts.

The Israeli's also remember that the United States abandoned their allies in South Vietnam. And abandoned the Shah. And abandoned the Sandinistas. And got chased out of Lebanon in 1984. And abandoned Somalia. And now major pressure to abandon the new Iraqi regime.

They also remember that the United States, on the orders of Secretary of state Kissinger, abandoned Israel in 1973. Kissinger thought that he would force Israel to the peace table with the arabs by cutting off aid when the Arabs attacked Israel. The Arabs, of course, led by Nasser, had promised to slaughter every Israeli citizen and were breaking through on both the Golan and Sinai fronts. Israel forced the US to resume aid by threatening to nuke Arab forces in the event of a breakthrough and thus start WW3. Without this aid, every Israeli citizen would have been killed in a second Holocaust. The Israeli's remember this. The United States does not. The Israeli's also remember fighting against Iraqi, Algerian, Sudanese, financed by the Saudi's and Kuwaitis in 1973. They remember that the PLO has been financed largely by Saudi and other gulf petrodollars. So of course, it makes them nervous when the Saudi's get better planes.

Posted by: Rix at April 14, 2008 08:35 PM


RSAF allready flies F 15s

RSAF has broken agreements as to the deployment of their F 15s.

They were sold with th eunderstanding that they would not be deployed to a RSAf base just south of Jordan not far from Israel.

Screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me.

Lets not forget that Iran has no Air Force to speak of. Iraq is gone. Only people Saudi really has to worr about are the Cambodians.

Israel has no need or desire to ocuppy the sands of saudi Arabia nor that of Egypt.

What the western suppliers of weapons should do is refuse to let their nationals maintain the sophisticated weapons systems unless they cut the price of oil. Since these arab countries don't maintain their own aircraft and use many foreigners as pilots lets put a bit of prssure on them.

Posted by: Jake at April 14, 2008 07:19 PM


Isn't the problem that we allow these kinds of weapons to be sold all over the world to begin with? How much fun would the Iran Iraq was have been if the reds had not given them both a all that junk? Then we go in at do the same thing, and come back to face it a few years after that. Not always our hardware but our policies blow back pretty good. Stop giving any of those guys weapons at all. It's just a bad policy.

Posted by: The Cenobyte at April 14, 2008 06:41 PM


Except for the "stealthness", I think the EF is clearly superior to the F-35.

Posted by: Vitor at April 14, 2008 06:06 PM


Israel may not have terrorist in this country but they are VERY active in spying in America. Only China right now spies more on the US than Israel. With friends like this who needs enemies.

Posted by: Jack at April 14, 2008 05:20 PM


"The US only is concerned with Iran(for no real reason), and we sell to everyone, as a result."

Hamas, Hezbollah, Nukes, and Revolutionary Guard, IEDs, armor-piercing grenades, Sadr's militia, Beirut bombing, hostage taking, in the embassy and Royal Navy, and trying to do the same to one of our destroyers in the Persian Gulf.

Yeah, Iran is not being unfairly singled out amongst all of the good citizens of the world because we don't like their shoes. We have good reason to be against the "Persians."

And there is good reason - beyond the defense of Israel - to avoid selling the F-35 to Saudi Arabia. Beyond keeping the technology secret (Chinese F-35 knockoffs, anyone?), those fighters are designed for offense. We want to, or should want to, keep Saudi Arabia cozy in their sandbox, not in a position to strike from Mogadishu to Tel Aviv, Baghdad to Tehran.

This is a bad idea. Sell them all the F-15s they want, no JSFs.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at April 14, 2008 04:47 PM


CR

Well, the Israelis will do everything they can to block that deal...and they generally get what they want.

good because i dont know of any israeli terrorist in iraq or aphg. do you?

socalmaverick

war sucks but no offense they shouldnt put bomb factories in the same building or area as a residence....no go put the tinfoil hat back on so the zionist consperacy cant read your mind

to israel yes to japan...maybe there not real big on security...already had some leaks about ageis. and bryan..iran is a threat iran funds both hezzbollah,hamas, and other smaller terrorist groups....now imagine what a world without hezzbolla, hamas and there copies would be like? iran is THE sponsor of world terror next is saudis.

so no planes to saudi arabia...youd think we would have figured out and stopped selling crap to a country that birthed what 90% of the 911 highjackers.

also ask a question those of you who seem to see israel as the bugyman...if a man fired off a rocket that rocket blewup caused your son/daughter to lose a leg what would you feel like doing? There can be no peace in the holy land(sence some here probbly dont see israel or palestines bla bla right to exist bla bla)till the palestinians renounce terror and try to live like men and not mad animals...hell and im not even jewish or israeli and i see that!

Posted by: James at April 14, 2008 04:38 PM


First, the US can sell our crap to whomever we choose, and Israel will just have to accept it.

Israel fears Arabs and Persians, and the Arabs fear Jews and Persians. The US only is concerned with Iran(for no real reason), and we sell to everyone, as a result.

The Saud's recycle petrodollars and buy our weapons, and Israel recycles our foreign aid to buy our weapons. Nice.

The F35 should have never been designed with stealth and other 5th gen technology if everyone was concerned about tech transfers, which will happen regardless of safeguards.

The F35 is a multi role plane for all US branches plus our Allies, numbering several thousand airframes. Export market was a a primary goal in order to keep cost per plane down to affordable levels and spread risks across to all, so why does everyone have their panties in a wad?

Did I read that Israel wanted F22's to potentially shoot down F35's? We should sell the F22 to Japan and Israel, just to keep the F22 lines open and make money, not just to subdue others paranoia.

Posted by: Bryan2020 at April 14, 2008 03:31 PM


To :

Let's not forget that the massive U.S. arms sales to the Arab Gulf countries are primarily directed against the potential IRANIAN threat. It is very doubtful that any of the U.S.-supplied hardware to Saudi Arabia - including F-15s and AWACs aircraft - pose a threat to Israel. Even the Saudi theater ballistic missiles that were procured from the People's Republic of China are not mobile and they sit on "fixed bases," i.e., less of a threat to Israeli security. The question remains whether the Royal Saudi Arabian Air Force will be technically able to effectively absorb, man and operate F-35 technology. The Saudis procured the M1 Abrams tank as well. A large number of those tanks simply sits in storage.

Posted by: LEP1 at April 14, 2008 03:18 PM


Is it the intent of this post to deliberately not mention the fact that the RSAF flies F-15 warplanes?

Posted by: Mark Pyruz at April 14, 2008 03:03 PM


When is the last time you saw an Israeli fly a plane into a skyscraper full of civilians or strap a bomb to their chest?

Posted by: steve at April 14, 2008 02:58 PM


someone remind me. when was the last time the saudi fighter planes kill innocent women, children, and days old babies?
the same can't be said about Israel.

Posted by: socalmaverick at April 14, 2008 02:46 PM


Well, the Israelis will do everything they can to block that deal...and they generally get what they want.

Posted by: CR at April 14, 2008 01:47 PM


Selling advanced weapontry to the Saudis is bad policy. They are the bad guys. They are a repressive brutal monarchy.

They make Castro's regime look warm and fuzzy by comparison.

Their foreign fighters and 9-11 fighters are a leading cause of U.S. casualties. We need to be sending them foreign civilian aid to help them find a productive purpose for unemployed college educated (in Islamic theology) young men, not advanced jet fighters.

We reduced their need for aircraft when we destroyed the Iraqi Air Force. The only air force an F-35 is legitimately necessary to counter is Israel's and there is no point in fueling both sides of the Saudi-Israel arms race.

Posted by: ohwilleke at April 14, 2008 01:45 PM


How can people say how superior of an aircraft the f22 is and then say they are considering selling it to even our best friends. Why not sell the B2 stealth, V22 osprey and latest and prized possession of US military hardware so that it can be reversed engineered and some of it's attributes made obsolete. Unless there is something more advanced then the f22. I'm confused, some secrets are kept secrets even to best of friends. Even to your spouse or parents. Is greed and money that important to compromise US security.

Posted by: kookoooo at April 14, 2008 01:37 PM


Post a comment




Remember Me?


Please enter the code as seen in the image below to post your comment.