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Edited by Christian Lowe | Contact

The F-117 Nighthawk is Gone. . . We Think!

F-117 Web.jpg

The F-117 Nighthawk -- the U.S. Air Force's greatly touted stealth attack aircraft -- is gone. At least, we think it's gone -- can one really be certain with a stealth airplane? The aircraft, which won combat honors during operations over Panama, Serbia, and Iraq, was officially retired in late April after a 27-year service life.

"It was a mistake to retire them," said Dr. Richard Hallion, former historian of the Air Force and special assistant to that service's secretary. Hallion explained to this writer that the large number of F-16 and F-15 fighter-type aircraft flown by the Air Force are not stealthy and the number of F-22 Raptors, which do have stealth characteristics, are too few in number to meet the U.S. need for low-observable strike aircraft.

Cited by the Air Force as the world's first operational aircraft designed to exploit low observable -- stealth -- technology, the F-117A entered service in 1982. Through 1990 Lockheed built 59 aircraft at a Burbank facility.

The F-117 first flew in combat during the U.S. invasion of Panama in 1989 that led to the capture of dictator Manuel Noriega. F-117s were also flown in the air campaign over Serbia in 1999, and were among the first aircraft to strike targets in the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and in the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One F-117 was shot down by Serbian anti-aircraft fire on 27 March 1999. Serbian forces launched Soviet-provided "Neva-M" missiles (NATO designation SA-3 Goa) to down the F-117A serial number 82-806. The pilot ejected after the aircraft was struck and was subsequently rescued by Allied forces.

According to then-NATO commander General Wesley Clark and other NATO officials, Serbian air defenses found that they could detect F-117s with their radars operating on unusually long wavelengths. This made the aircraft visible by radars for short times.

The wreckage of the F-117 was not immediately bombed due to possible media fallout from news footage showing civilians around the wreckage. The Serbs were believed to have invited Russian personnel to inspect the remains, inevitably compromising the U.S. stealth technology.

Some of the wreckage is reportedly on display at the Museum of Yugoslav Aviation close to Belgrade's Nikola Tesla Airport.

During the 1991 air campaign against Iraq, the F-117 was the only coalition aircraft to fly over Baghdad. (The Navy's ship-launched Tomahawk cruise missiles also "flew" over Saddam's capital city.)

F-117s flew combat missions only at night, hence their name Nighthawk.

The F-117 was born at the Lockheed "Skunk Works" in Burbank, California, the same design facility that produced the ultra-secret U-2 and SR-71 spyplanes. A production decision was made in 1978 and the first flight was made on 18 June 1981. The single-seat F-117's low-observable characteristics were derived from both its bat-like shape, with twin turbofan engines "buried" in the "boxy" fuselage. Capable of in-flight refueling, in 1992 F-117s flew non-stop from Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, to Kuwait, a flight of approximately 18-1/2 hours -- a record for single-seat fighters that still stands.

Although designated as a "fighter," the F-117 had no air-to-air capabilities. It was an attack aircraft that could carry some 4,000 pounds of bombs or missiles in an internal weapons bay.

The first F-117s were retired in December 2006. The surviving aircraft will be stored in hangars at a secret location in Nevada. Their special storage is based on retaining the secrecy of their special features rather than any consideration of someday reactivating the planes.

-- Norman Polmar

Comments

please answer back as quick as u can

Posted by: nic at June 4, 2008 12:37 PM


i was woundering how many f-117's were made in 2008. i would also like to know how many have been shot down and how much fuel it uses in one flight. i would dearly like to know these answers for a project

Posted by: nic at June 4, 2008 12:35 PM


so now that the ar-1 is on the street, what is exactly stelath.

Posted by: max anderson at May 13, 2008 07:55 AM


The USAF historian is wrong. F-117 may be able to do some things in a legacy IADS but not modern ones like what are forming today with S-300 and S-400_like SAM systems being fielded in the coming years.

The F-22 doesn't just depend on stealth to give it an edge: Super cruise and a higher altitude and passive sensors like the AN/ALR-94 that can geo locate emitters give it a significant edge. SEAD/DEAD of high-end threats will be it's mission.

No way will the F-117 survive a modern IADS. Lack of useful sensors, subsonic means that in a negative stealth event, it's all over. Comments by LM after the F-117 shootdown state that even a simple turning maneuver can kill your RCS by a factor of 100 or more. Stealth is useful but it isn't the be-all, end-all.

Then of course there is the maintenance of the F-117 which sux and of course the near non-existent funding of U.S. stand-off jamming. Hope no one is counting on the slow, pudgy Grower (escort jammer) to save their stealth hide. This includes Growler being fielded with yesterday's jamming gear. Operation Shoestring.

Posted by: ELP at May 12, 2008 09:05 PM


HumanPestControl,

You are absolutely wrong about the F-22.

The F-22 more than likely WILL drop bombs (which is very much part of its mission) & shoot down another aircraft.

Deterance IS NOT the F-22's only purpose. Its purpose is to ensure US air dominace by being able to shoot down other aircraft (& drop bombs) with relative/comparative impunity.

Posted by: pfcem at May 10, 2008 04:25 PM


methinks that if the raptor would be a lot more readily accepted if it looked more like the nighthawk (or gasp, the most exotic YF-23 was chosen instead). The raptor just looks so...conventional compared to the nighthawk and spirit that people have a hard time matching the cost and what it's capable of to its appearance.

perhaps the airforce should just go ahead and paint all the raptors black...(that was supposed to be sarcasm, but one second thought, that would look incredibly cool)

Posted by: elijah at May 10, 2008 11:52 AM


HumanPestControl,

"You could say something MIGHT happen because of the capabilities someone thinks they have, like the F22 dropping bombs on high valued ground targets during the opening phase of another unlikely conventional war; BUT I AM TELLING YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN. The F22 will never drop bombs, and never shoot down another aircraft. Sorry. The F22 is not a 'stealth' bomber, like the F117 and B2. But you can keep justifying the F22 ground role all you want to."


How are you going to tell anybody what will happen in this context? How do you know the F-22 hasn't ALREADY flown classified combat operations? The short answer is YOU DONT. Look, I respect your passion. But logically your statements don't stand up to scrutiny. You are right about one thing though. THe F-22 is definately not a "stealth bomber" like the F-117. It is far superior and much more versitile. Even if it was not stealthy, its kinematic performance would make it a very difficult target. The chances that the F-22 will never shoot down another plane or drop bombs in combat, assuming the latter hasn't already happened, are slim to none. No post WWII frontline USAF fighter that I can think of has not seen air or ground combat. The F-4 and F-15C were considered just as revolutionary and expensive in their time as the F-22 is today. Both were used extensively in all roles. Remember, the United States is almost always in a state of constant war somewhere on the planet since 1776. And it is always preparing for war continuously. So to think in the 25 to 50 year service life the Raptor is likely to see it will not be used in anger is absurd.

Leon,

The F-117 shootdown was a result of bad tactics and espionage. I don't doubt that the Serbs and perhaps a third party had some experimental means to attempt to target it as well. By the late 1990's the concept of stealth aircraft was well understood so it's concievable that some countermeasures were in development.

Keep in mind though, that out of all the combat sorties, ONLY ONE F-117, and just one F-117 has been shot down despite many many attempts. Thats an almost negligible success rate against a jet thats been flying for decades.

-DA

Posted by: DarthAmerica at May 10, 2008 12:51 AM


Regarding the Serbian shoot down of the F-117: I seem to remember discussion at the time of technical assistance being provided by the Chinese. That the Chinese supposedly had some ideas regarding tracking the F-117 with long wave radar and used the conflict to share the ideas with the Serbs.

I also remember shortly after the F-117 was shot down the U.S. "accidentally" bombed the Chinese embassy.

Posted by: Camp at May 9, 2008 09:15 PM


As I understand it the F-22 requires no modifications to do the F-117's job. If you think the F-22 is too expensive to do ground attack missions, what the hell did you think of the F-117. I'm betting that when you adjust for inflation, the F-117 turns out to be the more expensive jet.

The only real downside of the F-22 vs the F117 is the inability to mark its own targets for laser guided weapons, but in almost every case passively guided weapons should do the job just fine.

Posted by: ADyer at May 9, 2008 02:07 PM


You could say something MIGHT happen because of the capabilities someone thinks they have, like the F22 dropping bombs on high valued ground targets during the opening phase of another unlikely conventional war; BUT I AM TELLING YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN. The F22 will never drop bombs, and never shoot down another aircraft. Sorry. The F22 is not a 'stealth' bomber, like the F117 and B2. But you can keep justifying the F22 ground role all you want to.

Its (F22) only purpose it to DETER unfriendly countries, not to fly their massive fleets of high tech fighters or bombers (?) against us, during some conflict that a US Pres dreams up.[had to throw that it in]

Your response is no one can predict the future, and bring up WW1 or WW2 or Vietnam F4's, or whatever.

Posted by: HumanPestControl at May 9, 2008 11:07 AM


I think some people are confused with what ground attack means. The F22s role will not be as CAS. It's an opening hours of a conflict option as others have pointed out that will clear paths for follow on forces like bombers.

8 weapons per planes is plenty. Each can be programmed for different targets. I think alot of people assume to that you need 50 bombs to get things done. Even bombers on strike missions usually aren't engaging more than a few target sets.

Modifying the F117 means spending money on a very old design to make it closer in capability to something we now have that is better.

The F35 will do just fine once they are done. All the nay sayers make me laugh. In my life I have listened to how the Nimitz class, the M1, the M2, the Apache, the C17, the Stryker, B1, B2, and I can't remember how many other systems were all junk that were going to be huge failures. Somehow they seemed to all perform pretty decent.

Posted by: vince at May 9, 2008 10:27 AM


I believe the Serbian SAM commander that hit the F-117 also nailed another NATO aircraft on a separate occasion. Sorry I can't find a link to the guy's story, but here's the gist. He was a clever fellow who knew his job well and understood the technology inside and out. The main tactic was to keep the radar off until he had a target in range. That was done through a network of observers using cell phones. I believe he actually had a visual on one of the two planes before he lit up the radar. The task was eased by the mission planner's complacency in using similar flight paths over and over. You can't assume technology will always beat a smart and disciplined opponent.

Posted by: Leon Trotsky at May 9, 2008 09:26 AM


Can someone please explain why we would use a 50+ million dollar F-15C as a cruise missile when we have TLAMs by the hundreds which are much more effective? Also, why would we use them as UCAVs when we have superior UCAV designs flying as prototypes that can actually meet the requirement.

Just because the Chinese might have modified some of their old 1950's era fighters into Kamakazies doesn't mean it's something we should adopt.

Posted by: DarthAmerica at May 9, 2008 01:41 AM


Humanpestcontrol,

1. You are misrepresenting a few things. The F-22 will almost certainly use ground attack weapons in any future conflict that involves the USAF and especially against IADS which is one of its primary target sets.

You ask for the justification for using a 120 million dollar aircraft for ground attack? Well, a pair of Raptors conducting SEAD/DEAD could knock out a battery of S-400 missiles out of a fight and then kill or escape from interceptors/AWACS at will with little more than tanker support before entering into denied airspace. So we are talking about 5. to 2 million dollars in ordinance used and roughly 250 million dollars in assets plus two pilots at risk. A single F-22 squadron would be able to threaten the entire S-400 regiment near Elektrostal and any fighters that were in the area.

To achieve those results with conventional aircraft or even the F-117 would require dozens more aircraft and pilots and billions of dollars in assets at risk. Moreover, such a strike package would have a significant logistics footprint and might lose the element of surprise considering the number of platfroms involved.

Look at Abkhazia and current events to see why this hypothetical above could be very real one day. An F-117 would not be able to accomplish the same mission without much more support.

2. B-2's proved to be invaluable in Afghanistan as did other strategic bombers. In fact they made the difference in the air war. Strategic Bombers and Carrier Strike Fighters were key to success in OEF. In fact, a B-2 flew the longest air combat mission in history during OEF.


-DA

Posted by: DarthAmerica at May 9, 2008 01:33 AM


Makes me think that Skunk Works has something in the wings already...

Seriously; we most definitely have an ace in the hole on this one. If we don't, then the nation is screwed.

Posted by: Patron Vectras at May 9, 2008 12:59 AM


To Kyle:

I am very aware of the F-22's air and ground capabilities. I was a major F-22 fanboy during the '90's, but it came 15 years too late, and too expensive for a single mission manned plane. Now I am basher. The ground attack role is a very limited afterthought, and will never be used. Not impressed. Cool tests, but not useful enough for ground combat.

Dropping 8 SDB, or 2 1000 pound JDAM, LOL. Just trying to justify a 120 million dollar fighter jet, that has no current air to air uses, and no ground uses, ever. The AF already decided they could not make a ground attack version, like the F-15E. Better stick to shadowing the Russian Bombers near Alaska, because that is what it was designed to do. Cannot even afford a 2 seat trainer version or much actual flight time. Simulations galore.

(Using the B2 in Afghanistan was not really a good idea either, but at least it has a payload and range to bring the pain, which the F22 does not.)

I think the AF is more interested in controlling UCAV's development and acquisitions, keeping the Marines and Army from meddling, than actually making it a priority anytime soon. Some call it a plane, others call it a weapon system. That is the culture. I am sure the younger AF personnel love them, but the ones whom make the decisions, appear to me to be skeptical. Others slso share my view.

Posted by: HumanPestControl at May 9, 2008 12:14 AM


Remember that the F-117 was not KNOWN to the general public (yes there were SOME who did) until 1989 when it entered service in 1982...

I guarantee that the USAF now has SOMETHING (feel free to speculate what THAT might be) that has made the F-117 redundant/obsolete. And like the vast majority of out current forces, the F-117s were procured in the 1980s, making them 20+ years old & prohibitively expensive to maintain.

Posted by: pfcem at May 8, 2008 11:42 PM


Modify F117 for more bombs, 2nd crewman?
bigger fuel load, improved engines & avionics, fwd swept wing?
Just tweak the airframe & electrnics to upgrade F117.
Carry bombs & missiles in mini cylinder module.
Or in pod Gun??
Its doable.

Posted by: stephen russell at May 8, 2008 09:20 PM


HumanPestControl:

From Wikipedia: "In testing, a Raptor dropped a 1,000 lb (450 kg) JDAM from 50,000 feet (15,000 m), while cruising at Mach 1.5, striking a moving target 24 miles (39 km) away."

Yeah, that sounds like severely limited ground attack capability to me.

"We need a shit load of UCAV's right now, anyway. I don't think the AF culture is a big fan of UCAV, though."

Sounds like you don't know too many people in the Air Force...

Posted by: Kyle at May 8, 2008 07:34 PM


'Maybe converting F-15s into "Cruise Missiles"'...

I can see it now. Johnny Taliban is firing off his AK-47 at US soldiers, only took look into the sky with bewilderment, as a remote F-15 rolls in headed right for him... and at the last moment a smiley face is seen, painted on the canopy! :p

The F-22 discussion reminds me of this old pic...

"Sacrifice"
http://op-for.com/buff-4-raptors.jpg

Posted by: Camp at May 8, 2008 06:43 PM


Yes.

Trying to keep the budget situation in mind. I know everyone wants their toys for every imaginable scenario one dreams up, but REALITY gets in the way.

The USAF wants their new future toys, F-22 and F-35, next gen bombers..etc, (questionable relevance), but they can't buy them with their budget. There is no way in hell the AF will get more money, probably get even less of the pie in the future. Have to sacrifice today's useless toys, like the F-117, F-15C, for tomorrow.

The F-117 is now obsolete for its single mission, and has no way to be upgraded. Can only carry 2 bombs internally, anyway.

The F-15C is falling apart, and there is not an Air to Air threat of any kind to justify the expense. The 180 F-22's are all that we need for that unlikely air to air mission. The F-22 will never be used for ground attack. Marketing ploy only, even if it does have limited ground attack capability.

The F-35 multi-role, multi-service plane would be great, but won't see it before 2015, and its costs are out of control, and gets worse every FY. Back to the budget again. Seven more years is an eternity in today's fast pace world. That is why I have my doubts it will survive, as it stands now.

I would love to have more manned ground attack/CAS capability, with or without 'stealth', but that is not happening. The F-15E, F-16, A-10, retired F-111, B-1B, B-52s...etc. Nothing going on in the future, unless the F-35 arrives. All the ground attack action today seems to go towards loiter time, ie UCAV's. We need a shit load of UCAV's right now, anyway. I don't think the AF culture is a big fan of UCAV, though.

Posted by: HumanPestControl at May 8, 2008 06:02 PM


HumanPestControl,

You think that the F-117, F-15, F-22, and F-35 are either not good for the job or are increasingly a pipe dream. Please tell us what you see or what the US should do regarding military fighter and/or attack aircraft.

Yes, Roy with his APOSTATE Elders of Zion can be a laugh.

Posted by: WR at May 8, 2008 05:05 PM


Get rid of the F117. It is a waste of money for a plane that may only have a small utility during a conventional war.(more like useless against a modern opponent(whoever that is))

It is my understanding that planes are only going to get mothballed, not scraped. They should can the F15C's also.

F22 is not a ground attack plane. They claim it can carry bombs, but it will NEVER be used. Only needed to sell their BS justifications to Congress.

The F35 looks more like a pipe dream as time passes. No wonder the USAF is always bitching about their fleet. Most of their high tech fleet is currently not relevant, and becomes less relevant each day that passes. Only fantasies about the future, and nostalgia for the old days keep them going. Too funny, but a waste of scarce money and other resources.


Roy Smith is always good for a laugh, too.

Posted by: HumanPestControl at May 8, 2008 04:54 PM


Maybe converting F-15s into "Cruise Missiles" like China planned to do could buy time until new systems come online.They would be one-time use aircraft,which is the same as if you converted them to target drones.
While I guess I could understand standing down B-52s & B-1 bombers,we still have no replacement for them & nobody can agree on what the replacement should be.To me,it doesn't look like we are exchanging old weapons for new ones,it looks like we are standing down our military.

Posted by: Roy Smith at May 8, 2008 04:25 PM


The F22 can bomb targets and at far higher altitudes moving far faster than the 117s. With the SDBs it can carry 8 precision weapons internally, super cruise, fly at 60,000 feet, and has far and away better radar than the 117s. It is a better plane in every way. The USAF needs to save $ to buy new systems, it's as simple as that. Same reason they wanted to stand down some of the B52s, and the B1s, to save costs.

Posted by: vince at May 8, 2008 04:01 PM


Roy, the F-22 can carry bombs and has dropped them before.

One of the big costs of aircraft is maintenance, so if you convert a bunch of old F-15s to uavs, you still have to pay the upkeep costs. So they'll be really expensive to operate, even if you get them for free.

Posted by: Brian at May 8, 2008 03:14 PM


"There were about 52 F-117s remaining in the fleet when they were retired. Currently, there are about 91 active F-22s (with more coming)."

As far as I know,NONE of those F-22s have been fitted to drop bombs.....yet.Stop....stop.....stop....do not say F-35,none of them are online yet,they are still being tested.They are still in the experimental phase,in the "waiting for the V-22 to become operational phase" & I would not be surprised if it takes just as long for the F-35 to come online as it did the V-22 Osprey.We are talking about "new" technology aren't we? Not so "apples & oranges" after all is it?

Posted by: Roy Smith at May 8, 2008 03:06 PM


Who says that all of our UCAVs have to be bright,shiny,& new? You could convert almost all of those F-15s into UCAVs also.Make them more than just "target drones." Whats the harm in doing that? what "precious" project would lose out by making aircraft we already have,& desperately want to retire to make room for F-22s & F-35s,into UCAVs.

Posted by: Roy Smith at May 8, 2008 02:59 PM


Turning them into drones is not a bad idea.China is supposed to be converting their old obsolete Ba-5(J-5/MiG-17) & J-7(MiG-21) fighters into UCAVs,although now the sight says that they are "target" drones.The original plan was to make them in effect "cruise missiles" that could crash into airports or depots or....naval ships.They could also be armed with anti-ship missiles to fire before they go "Kamakaze."
The F-117 could still do what it's made to do,except unmanned this time.

Posted by: Roy Smith at May 8, 2008 02:55 PM


Shenanigans.

There were about 52 F-117s remaining in the fleet when they were retired. Currently, there are about 91 active F-22s (with more coming).

So we now have larger numbers of a more capable aircraft. Where's the problem?

Posted by: Some Guy at May 8, 2008 02:53 PM


Maybe they are just upgrading the technology and hiding it away until needed. Letting people think they don't have the air craft will make it possible to regain the element of surprise.

Posted by: Foreign.Boy at May 8, 2008 02:20 PM


Maybe they could turn the remaining F117s into drones & put them to use... in live or mock target practice, readiness drills (penetrating US airspace), or as a decoy carrier & lead penetrator. If I recall correctly, the aircraft flew mostly by computer assistance already.... Eh, just a crazy thought. :)

Posted by: Camp at May 8, 2008 02:06 PM


When ever we retire weapons systems without adequate replacements,the excuse always is that something better is coming.....some day in our lifetime,or.....there is no credible threat to justfy keeping such a weapon around."We have never had any credible threat from enemy air forces since WWII,blah,blah,blah,yadda,yadda,yadda."This excuse justifies gutting our fighter aircraft & anti-air artillery resources.The F-117 was a stealth Strike Fighter/Fighter-Bomber.It's primary mission was to BOMB things.It has not been proven that the F-22 can BOMB things & the F-35 is still a very long ways away.But then,we'll just use the "saw" that "there is no credible threat to justify keeping the F-117." The next thing you know,they'll scrap every F-117(just like they did the F-14s) because Iran might get a hold of one.You mean,because there is a fear that corrupt & traitorous Americans would SELL F-117s to Iran? We don't need all of these weapons because the cold war's over & we are fighting primitive terrorists hiding in caves(with IEDs,internet,movie studios,etc.)....

Posted by: Roy Smith at May 8, 2008 01:59 PM


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