He is not an idiot. you are the one idiot.

thats all

Posted by: barb at June 30, 2008 01:31 PM

New poster here. Never replied before, but i had to just for this one reason.

Jonny you're a complete tool.

That is all.

Posted by: New Poster at June 29, 2008 06:39 PM

--As the best thing someone can do with trolls is to ignore them, that's what I'll do with johnny.

--a fu.ck.. your post is not worth to be answered.

Now grow some neurones and mix them together my dear Gamelin, as in the first place, my post was not pointed to you, neither I care you read or comment it. Talks the one that drops grenades to level buildings and artillery barrages to obliterate neighborhoods. C'est la drôle de guerre!

Posted by: Cartman at June 26, 2008 06:18 PM

It could move around with speed, it could dodge, it could operate in narrow corridors, it could switch targets faster, it could kill faster (moving up your arm is faster than rotating the gun turret of the AFV).

what a speed exsactly? people do not move faster inside of those batle suits. dodge? you think this suit can dodge bulets and RPGS? operate in narrow corridors? seriously? you belive that buildings are only corridors? some idea why tunel rats in Vietnam war were sll small guys? switch target faster? how at the heck? and why do you need that in a building?

a fu.ck.. your post is not worth to be answered.

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 26, 2008 06:09 PM

--Away from puerile sci-fi fantasy, I see a lot of potential in this

another playstation game dream. seriously dude. you are so out of real life.

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 26, 2008 06:01 PM

As the best thing someone can do with trolls is to ignore them, that's what I'll do with johnny.

Back on topic, I think exoskeleton armor with infantry support in APCs could make a difference in urban combat. I am going to theorize a little and contribute to this post. Feel free to discuss whatever I say, politely please

An exo armor could be less probably hit by RPGs, could be impervious to small arms fire and most important, it could have much greater visibility and awareness than a crew enclosed in a big tracked vehicle.

APCs could be still fired upon, of course, but you reduce target risks from tanks and APCs to only APCs and you also add better protection to your convoy now, as exo units would be more 'battlefield aware' than vehicle crews.

If enemy units are found or soldiers know where to search, we get back to old close combat and door busting. As I said before, if exos are that large there would be few places where they could enter themselves unless smaller versions are developed and the terrorist busting job wouldn't change much. (See another parallelism here: tanks didn't immediately end trench warfare, exos wouldn't immediately solve the indoor fighting)

So the point is that at this stage, unless miniaturized to human size (no larger than a BDU), exo armor could be used only as a support role, like many of you said.

In any case, exos could maneuver and help infantry more efficiently than an armored fighting vehicle in the street does. It could move around with speed, it could dodge, it could operate in narrow corridors, it could switch targets faster, it could kill faster (moving up your arm is faster than rotating the gun turret of the AFV). It would be like if you had a terminator there, or squad of terminators, they shoot, they kill, they get shot, they are unharmed. I don't like making sci-fi comparisons but this one was necessary. Also, about room clearing, not all doors are 2 m tall, exos could operate inside warehouses, hangars, mosques and buildings big enough where tanks couldn't. That's a point.

Definitely, artillery strikes in a neighborhood wouldn't be good. The Wehrmacht in Stalingrad, with indiscriminate artillery and air strikes created literally fortress of rubble where enemies could hide/fortify/ambush/snipe with ease, you don't want that to happen. Not even counting the thousands of civilians dead or displaced, unacceptable today.

But what if we encounter a hard target, like a building full of bad guys and a tank round or artillery or some heavy firepower would be needed? well, an exo's autocannon wouldn't be a great help if we want to demolish the building without risking our soldiers. But the exo could be modified with a kit, it could be fitted with a missile launcher or some recoilless but powerful thing to blast the entire apartment. The kit could be deployable in another APC-like vehicle dedicated to exo support. This exo tender could be an armored truck, like a large MRAP, the exo goes inside and gets fuel, ammo, field repairs or changes to another kit, the crew never goes out and never exposes to enemy fire. This exo tender could also serve as a control center for exo units or it could even be made fully automatic and autonomous, without any crew.

Let's see a couple of possible scenarios about potential use of exo suits:

Team 1: infantry in APCs with tank/MGS/whatever support.

Team 2: infantry in APCs, exo tender armored vehicle and a squad of exo armors dancing around.

Scenario 1: Our convoys run into a street where bad guys in windows and opposite sides start shooting at our guys in the open. What is better, a tank that can engage with its full potential one or two points at a time? or our squad of exos firing at everything at the same time and eliminating the threat much faster?

Scenario 2: Bad guys are met inside a warehouse or a large mosque and made it a strong point but this place can't be destroyed. Team 1 can't use the tank and needs to commit the infantry, there could be casualties. Team 2 sends the exos, they go inside and leave the place white clean without a scratch.

Away from puerile sci-fi fantasy, I see a lot of potential in this.

Posted by: Cartman at June 26, 2008 05:34 PM

Hello,

A couple things from an Infantryman who has actually done CQB in the real world, and not just watched in the movies or on TV.

First, we don't toss grenades through doors to clear rooms. Sure, that happens in some circumstances (and it happened a lot in Fallujah), but not as a general rule. And when we do throw grenades, it doesn't level the building, or the city block like Artillery would. TV Grenades do that, and I once saw Rambo use a grenade to destroy a building, but it doesn't work that way in real life. Anyone who thinks they are the same thing has no idea what he is talking about.

The suit is too bulky to be of any use in room clearing, even if it were heavily armored. It might do well in a combat support roll - carrying a heavy weapons platform, etc. But not for your regular grunt.

In the rear, loading trucks and planes - it would be pretty great - even the way it is currently configured. Fast and highly maneuverable, much more so than a forklift, and you don't need as much steering room.

As far as Plutonium cores, and Starship Troopers - are you people serious? Maybe they should give it a lightsaber, and a phaser - and build them as big as houses...

Posted by: SGT_K at June 26, 2008 04:50 PM

Cartman

how old are you? why are you here? go and play your playstation.

coolhand77

you are failed to bring your point. are going to agree with Cartman? i hope you are old enough to get some Lebanon war 2006 pictures. best documented exsample how urban warfare realy is.

Bob

i agree with you. kids here realy belive that with exsosceletons US-army doesnt need Infantry carriers, tanks, bombers and heavy artillery.

urban "combat" FTW.

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 26, 2008 03:02 PM

Ha ha johnny you totally discredited yourself with such childish and paranoid behavior, thank you very much for making things so easy my dear friend Gamelin.

Mondieu is that a Stuka? Run run!

Posted by: Cartman at June 26, 2008 02:43 PM

Ooooh, someone sounds like they need to grow up a little. Untwist your panties Jonny, and get a spell checker. No need to get so bloody infantile over a freaking blog.

There is potential in this technology. Whether it is useful the way they think it will be remains to be seen. Thats part of the whole R&D dance. Can't wait to see whats next.
In all honesty, its going to be a while before we have Heinlen's "Mobile Infantry" suits with nuclear powered jump jets and sub tactical nuclear bazookas. I agree that the best short term use (once they get all the kinks worked out and armored up) would be in the same range as Tanks and IFVs are being used now, and letting more limber/smaller softies support the hard suits for building and urban ops.

Besides, its cool!

Posted by: coolhand77 at June 26, 2008 02:26 PM

Wow! You guys have been watching "iron man" way too many time!

Compact plutonium reactor, Starship Troopers, nuclear demolition mine? How many of you are actually startrek geeks?

Fear factor? What? A exoskeleton is supposed to be more frightening than a battletank?

Anyone think the US problems in Iraq and Afghanistan is the result of not enough technology?

---

We believe Burns still has that bill hidden somewhere in his house. But all
we've ascertained from satellite photos is that it's not on the roof!
-Agent Johnson, "The Trouble With Trillions"

Posted by: Bob at June 26, 2008 02:05 PM

---You talk about intensive urban combat and then you propose giving good artillery support to standard soldiers of 2008. My god!! Does it help to reduce buildings to rubble? Or killing tons of civilians? ---

hey, son of the biatch!! how do you think is urban warfare works today?!! do you realy think that to drop hand-granates by infantry into every room is better and saver then to rave whole house with artillery? fu_ucking hell, how naive and retar_ted are you? or do you realy think that this "arest-terorist-job" what we see in american tv is a real urban fight? its a fu_cking SWAT-police job and not an urban fight between millitaries. go and suck your mothers tita, kido!!

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 26, 2008 01:53 PM

Johnny:

You talk about intensive urban combat and then you propose giving good artillery support to standard soldiers of 2008. My god!! Does it help to reduce buildings to rubble? Or killing tons of civilians?

In urban combat the only way to save the day is door to door, house to house, face to face, in two words: close combat. Maybe this thing couldn't get through many doors at this stage but it could patrol streets that an armored vehicle couldn't, while foot soldiers go inside houses and clear the mess. Maybe an even more advanced version of the exo could be more human size than this one and then your exo-soldier could do the work all alone.

Remember that many first versions of a brand new military hardware are not perfect. As a clear example, tanks in 1916 were poorly mobile, mechanically unreliable, dangerous for their crews and didn't even caused such an impact on trench warfare at the moment, but they achieved further improvements across the years and you know the rest. I am not even going to remember what were the French thinking about armored warfare and what were the Germans. Maybe we got a paralelism here? Maybe you are a Frenchy and I am a German for believing in the potential battlefield transformation of this thing?

Posted by: Cartman at June 26, 2008 01:24 PM

To the poster "Old Sailor":

You wrote: "The only power supply for an exoskeleton with real firepower (20mm autocannons etc) that makes sense is a compact plutonium reactor. It could be done, but..."

I totally agree: That idea was long overdue! Compact plutonium reactors for exoskeletons could easily be miniaturized by simply doing away with all the totally unnecessary safety measures, for example steely containment structures (pure civilian paranoia - they didn't work in Chernobyl either...) . Radiation shielding needs only to be added between the mini-reactor and the exoskeleton's / soldier's back, too, to reduce weight. (In case of persistent high radiation levels, use of the exoskeleton is limited to a safe 20 minutes per combat). The overall weight can further be reduced by making the reactor cores of such light-weight materials as styrofoam etc. (which don't rust either!). In case of doubts: A friend of mine knows a brilliant young Ukrainian nuclear scientist who is GREAT at simplifying nuclear reactors! Should the remaining technical glitches of the feather-weight plutonium reactors still diminish their service lives excessively then just declare them as single-use, throw-away objects (always think of the 4.000 new jobs this factory will create - no French parts incorporated this time!).

Cooling could be a problem... in exchange, this back-pack plutonium reactor has a lesser-advertised dual role as a nuclear demolition mine, too: Just drop it close to a target and shoot once at it, from a safe distance!

Only operational drawback: Being nuclear-powered, these exoskeleton suits can't be shut off after each 5-minutes-use. Even when not in use, someone needs to walk on inside these exoskeleton suits.

Posted by: freefallingbomb at June 26, 2008 10:43 AM

Johnny,

I have read several posts from you and I must admit a few things. You never seem to know what you are talking about.

You are always pessimistic.

You don't have a good grasp on higher level thinking.

Posted by: Greg at June 26, 2008 10:28 AM

Everybody go read "Starship Troopers" by Heinlein. If you had an armored suit with infrared, microwave radar, a potfull of ordnance and trained troops...

Heinlein was an aeronautical engineer and laid out a good plan for the system, including insertion. What we are looking at is the first prototype. Sort of like looking at the Wright Brothers and whining about what it would take to produce the F-22.

If you think horses and mules are so great, don't forget what they eat. It is not so compact as gasoline, diesel or methanol. The emissions aren't so great, either.

Posted by: Wade at June 26, 2008 08:03 AM

--Even if exoskeletons turn out to be completely useless in real combat situations and mostly unnecessary for logistics, think about how useful they can be as recruiting tools.--

hehehe.. god bless japanese and their gundam animes.

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 26, 2008 04:51 AM

I can drive my car dry in about four hours and it is supremely useful. This thing doesn't need to have a two week endurance; it just has to get around the block or ten.

And it doesn't need to have superman strength; that prototype is possibly way overpowered.

Give it just twice the strength of a typical adult male in a package that can defeat small arms and the infantry have an insurmountable advantage over unenhanced enemies, equivalent to mailed and mounted knights over peasants.

Posted by: Brad at June 26, 2008 12:05 AM

Even if exoskeletons turn out to be completely useless in real combat situations and mostly unnecessary for logistics, think about how useful they can be as recruiting tools.

Especially if civilian organizations never bite and the only place you'll ever find these are the military, putting guys in these suits, adding a macho soundtrack and then airing the footage during sporting events might encourage the forces to spring for the suits out of their recruitment budget, even if no other arm would touch them.

Posted by: Michael Smith at June 25, 2008 10:44 PM

Regarding the power supply, a methanol fuel cell would do the trick, it'd probably add 10 or 20 pounds and the fuel would be another bit. The methanol fuel cell could produce the energy necessary to power this thing for an hour or two, and could be refueled quickly. They are very expensive, this 25w version's only potential customer is the army, at around $6000:

http://www.ultracellpower.com/sp.php?xx25

So you imagine that cell could be scaled up to 1000 watts. Honda is about to start selling a car with their revolutionary hydrogen fuel cell that produces about 100 kilowatts. The fuel cell in the car couldn't weight more than a few hundred pounds. The only difference is that this methanol fuel cell has a small modular reformer to convert the liquid fuel into hydrogen.

So the technology is available right now to power this thing, it's not too expensive either, I bet Honda could whip up a methanol fuel cell for this beast in a year or two. I'm guessing that as the fuel cell technology matures, and this suit becomes more efficient, run times could get up into hours and days.

jonny the fart: RPG's might work but this suit is not a tank, it'd be hard to hit at long range, and in urban combat nobody is going to fire an RPG indoors. Molotov cocktail could be easily extinguished, the suit would need a fire extinguisher built in if it were topped off with methanol. Recoil is not a problem either, it's the weight that matters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM307

A plutonium generator, if you're thinking the RTG's used on space probes, would not provide sufficient power. The most you could get from one of those at a reasonable size is a few hundred watts. Not to mention the other problems with it.

I'd also point out that "fear factor" is very important IMO, and a powered armor suit like this would be totally demoralizing to enemy fighters.

Posted by: Jeff M at June 25, 2008 10:41 PM

While I'm hoping that someone while buy troy's prototype; you have to remember that this is a exoskeleton prototype. Its big and clunky now.. but prototypes still just fleshes out the concept. Once they figure out what they need and what they don't.. and how to make the bigger parts smaller etc.. they'll be getting somewhere.

You'll probably see the end product under some kind of hard modular body armour. The benefits of the power suit will get negated by the heavy armour.

I could see a utility being used back on the 'bases' or even carriers. Imagine a single dude pulling a plane to the catapult... or 2 men hoisting weapons onto bomb pylons.

Posted by: Foreign.Boy at June 25, 2008 09:02 PM

The Exoskeleton ain't nothing....

Fear teh "Monster Arm Suit" 8O)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cTXuklVV3AM

It's just one of those days...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSz72Bn4tFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm1gQUPPGCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOyj4ciJk34
http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/walle/trailer_large.html

Posted by: Camp at June 25, 2008 08:01 PM

The only power supply for an exoskeleton with real firepower (20mm autocannons etc) that makes sense is a compact plutonium reactor. It could be done, but...

Posted by: Old Sailor at June 25, 2008 07:59 PM

-H0ow about its usefulness in support roles?
-Loading up weapons on a plane on board a carrier, where space for a forklift is limited?

Seriously dude. have you even looked on how big this thing realy is? or how long this all "high-tech" can run in a real battle? you thing that those small motors and reverse mechaniks can do it job long enough? who will keep it running? you need specialy educated people for that..

--Its expensive while its a prototype.

gosh. its still expensive.

---Allow civilian models to be produced (for the above applications) and the price drops much further).

why? for workers? do you thing it will make a difference compared to cheap forklift?

---Imagine the next generation of this thing, with an armored cover, more complexity and freedom of movement, more autonomy and with attachable weapon kits: 20 mm autocannons, grenade launchers, machine guns, MANPADS, antitank missiles... all modular.

ok.. i will try it: you will get a heavy guy with complex mashine and who has heavy gun wich cant be used because of recoil and because he needs an operator who will use those gadgets in a time when he must run and hide whole construction.

aside that imagine that all modular crap on him going into urban battle with a doors where 2 meter guy have problems to go trough.

and dont forget energy.. urban fights are very long-time fights.

if you want to save soldiers life then give them lightly guns, munition, protection and some good artly support. to drop those "super cool and expensive battlesuits" into a bee-hive full with RPGs and molotov cocktails is a same like to make them into Kamikaze.

Posted by: jonny tha fart at June 25, 2008 07:40 PM

the problem with the technology is the power supply. the technology for all the rest is already off-the-shelf, this company just put the pieces together. There is nothing new about mechanical limbs.

getting the power supply small enough, and potent enough, to give heavily armored soldiers the ability to fight for at least 20-30 min at a time between refueling, and this will give new meaning to the term mechanized infantry.

An APC can transport a group of suits near a specific target that needs to be defeated, the squad moves in and clears the target, then leaves and lets non-powered soldiers take over. It is basically the job we use tanks for now, only soldiers in powered armor will be able to go places tanks can't, like inside buildings, bunkers, and through difficult terrain.

Posted by: Kaltes at June 25, 2008 07:18 PM

Imagine the next generation of this thing, with an armored cover, more complexity and freedom of movement, more autonomy and with attachable weapon kits: 20 mm autocannons, grenade launchers, machine guns, MANPADS, antitank missiles... all modular.

You could have the basic exo and then specialize it with kits: combat engineering, assault, antiarmor, antiair, regular infantry, medic and medevac, logistics... Kits and modules are the way to go with this

Posted by: Cartman at June 25, 2008 07:01 PM

Key Performance Indicator: Dancing and Prancing

haha

Posted by: daskro at June 25, 2008 06:11 PM

Johnny:
Really? Lets forget about the potential usefulness of this suit in urban combat.
How about its usefulness in support roles? Loading up weapons on a plane on board a carrier, where space for a forklift is limited? Unloading a cargo truck on uneven ground? Construction in a hard to reach place?
Its expensive while its a prototype. Order thousands and the price drop. Allow civilian models to be produced (for the above applications) and the price drops much further).

And accumulators? What is this, the 50's? They are called capacitors nowadays.

Posted by: Ken Magalnik at June 25, 2008 05:42 PM

With the armor cover, it could Save lots of lives and make it easier fighting house to house.

Posted by: Joe at June 25, 2008 05:32 PM

It is realy fascinating how USA army forgot own horses and animals.. at next we will get cyber-cockroaches for soldier bases because its cool and modern.

but back to video..:

inbefore Patlabor and Armored Trooper Votoms..

1: american sodiers are not well trained and fit.

2: this exoscelet is useless and to expensive for became a Battlesuit.

3: only possible use of this crap will be asault atacks in the mountains where infantry and tanks cant do a job. and where bombers cant bomb. (aeehmm short said because we can bomb everywhere this exosceleton is useless)

4: a simple mountain trained horse is more cheaper and doesnt need acumulators.

it were much better to spend this money on better assault rifle and lighter equpiment and munition.

Posted by: jonny the fart at June 25, 2008 04:48 PM