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Posted by: lowestmalllowestmall at October 23, 2008 09:05 PM

There is more updates, video and pics on the exoskeleton project at TacticalWarfighter

http://www.tacticalwarfightergear.com/tacticalgear/catalog/soldier_exoskeleton.php

Posted by: delpin at October 18, 2008 03:09 PM

well ppl look at the new iron man and see the future !

this battle suit mr stark has is both flexible and durable in fact we have the tech to make it its all about to join forces all can bebifit from this technology besides the stuff Posted by: stephen russell at September 6, 2008 09:35 AM there is also applications for new sorts of hardspace suits able to cope whith radiation and gamma rays out there ;D OPEN YOUR MIND !!!

Posted by: niels at October 8, 2008 03:31 PM

I've seen quite a few of them already....we just call them cockroaches...

Posted by: homeless at September 11, 2008 11:35 AM

You want a lifter, get a lifter.
You want a loader, get a loader.
You want transit, get a bike or an ATV.

They seem to want this thing to do everything a guy can do, but stronger, faster - Wah-hoo. This is the ultimate in a work scope gone wild.

It mey be possible, but the R&D time will probably approach the R&D time it took to produce the soldier himself - figure on a few million years.

In the mean time, buy the loader, the lifter, or the bike. They work now, for a lot less cash.

Posted by: Rozinante2 at September 11, 2008 11:23 AM

One other use for this technology is to make a humanoid robot, an android. It is much easier to teach a machine by giving it examples than by a room of engineers sitting at desks and trying to describe theoretical movements for hypothetical situations that may never happen in real life.
Here the tasks are being performed successfully by the guy in the suit so the data coming in is real and the responses to feedback stimuli are human intuitive. Having a puter mimic by such methods as artificial neural networks and cybernetic fuzzy logic is a lot simpler than having it try to understand and plan every increment of every little actuator...
If you are going to remove the human from the suit you will not want to replace it with a multimillion dollar fragile and energy intensive puter of the same weight. If you have a handful of grunts do a dozen tasks a hundred times in the suit the data extracted will be priceless. I say good on the US military for persevering in this research. It will immediately make a stable platform for versatile drones to prove both Minsky _and_ Heinlein wrong!

Posted by: Power Bill at September 10, 2008 04:59 AM

Ok, you caught me. I cannot distinguish the Army from the Navy.
And ok, the suit is a bad idea. The concept of being able to go up a set of stairs and get shot 10 times with an AK-47 in the legs; face; chest; have a grenade go off next to you; and not worry about it is a crazy thing to want.
And body armor is a bad idea too, it just slows you down.
And helmets get in the way and will not stop a direct hit anyway.

Posted by: Dennis at September 9, 2008 08:47 AM

O oh,I'm onto your signal path!You are using a certain signal that doesn't do anything unless I
go somewhere else,and you bump it from strategypage to here,where my new posts don't appear on the pages....Hot links...I would think
it's a wiccan...

Posted by: reshtet at September 8, 2008 11:59 AM

Dennis!You are copying from two Public DOD DOCUMENTS and you are trying to it one whole!You
aren't even capable is distinguishing ARMY from NAVY??? You are slow,because you have no signals.

Posted by: reshtet at September 8, 2008 11:51 AM

E2-E4 in the NAVY isn't PFC at all!It's an ARMY
rank/paygrade...This proves a whole lot stupid things here...

Posted by: reshtet at September 8, 2008 11:46 AM

Still I believe the exoskeleton if properly debugged will be the combat suit of tomorrow. I have watched Robotech and played a few of the Mech Warrior games, read Heinline and other sci-fi authors. We could see in the next 15-20 years,the development of those.

I can fore see special units at first being fast strike Ranger and Marine units using them to go after terrorists. Can you inagine a guy in a exo-battle suit wielding a 30mm cannon like it is an M-16 and taking out some al-Queda punks?

Lovely image of that.

Posted by: Wiccanwolf at September 8, 2008 10:34 AM

Sorry for the repost, new computer/browser....

Posted by: Dennis at September 8, 2008 08:19 AM

Jake,
Do your homework:) The Military already has a twin turbine, single person transporter.
We know this due to the small company that makes them got a little crazy and put one on EBAY with the caveat that they would give it to the purchaser when the military allowed them to.....
As you can imagine, The Army was not pleased that they put secret technology on EBAY. I heard they got spanked......
Rooftop warfare, no helicopter needed.
Of course I do not see special forces giving these up anytime soon....Which is a shame.

Posted by: Dennis at September 8, 2008 07:58 AM

Jake,
Do your homework:) The Military already has a twin turbine, single person transporter.
We know this due to the small company that makes them got a little crazy and put one on EBAY with the caveat that they would give it to the purchaser when the military allowed them to.....
As you can imagine, The Army was not pleased that they put secret technology on EBAY. I heard they got spanked......
Rooftop warfare, no helicopter needed.
Of course I do not see special forces giving these up anytime soon....Which is a shame.

Posted by: Dennis at September 8, 2008 07:56 AM

Jake,
Do your homework:) The Military already has a twin turbine, single person transporter.
We know this due to the small company that makes them got a little crazy and put one on EBAY with the caveat that they would give it to the purchaser when the military allowed them to.....
As you can imagine, The Army was not pleased that they put secret technology on EBAY. I heard they got spanked......
Rooftop warfare, no helicopter needed.
Of course I do not see special forces giving these up anytime soon....Which is a shame.

Posted by: DennisD at September 8, 2008 07:55 AM

Jake, has it! How about an exoskeleton with a jump/jet pack. Now you're talking heinlein.

Posted by: Mad at September 8, 2008 02:52 AM

This is going to go the same way personal jetpacks went in the 50's/60's. Completely useless for warefare and with a hefty pricetag so it will never become commercially viable.

Posted by: Jake at September 8, 2008 01:47 AM

Exoskeletons are the first step, next thing you know we will have full on mecha like in these Japanese animes or Mech Warrior games.

Posted by: Lewis at September 7, 2008 11:42 PM

"Ruggedize" is the Army's word; not mine. Can I come out of my room now?

Posted by: Ward at September 7, 2008 09:20 PM

OK, I made the first PFC comment. It was a joke. As an E2-E4 in the NAVY, there was always work to do.
Packing for deployment. Bagging the laundry. Stripping and waxing the floor. Fixing aircraft.
If I only had a robotic suit. (Anther joke for you slow folks)
Logistics are already as mechanized as they can be. The days of loading Jerry cans one at time are long over.
And if they can work out the power issue, this suit can carry enough armor to make a solder bullet-proof (except for sniper fire and 50 cal..ect. But your dead anyway with or without it)
Put that solder on an ATV, you have a heavy duty, quickly deployable (to anywhere in the world) unit that could hold the line until the heavies show up.
Highly Mobile Super Marines, Super Airborne.
Many of you think these are a joke.
They are not, they are the future.

Posted by: DENNIS at September 7, 2008 08:33 PM

I just realized why you use PFC for a horrible way
to enlighten everyone!Because it's a person with light(or),in hebrew...Your covers are blown...

Posted by: reshtet at September 7, 2008 06:42 PM

Why are you always mentioning PFC rank? There are
more SPC's and SGT's than PFC's...Therefore quit acting like a brass,you don't hold the note well!

Posted by: reshtet at September 7, 2008 06:39 PM

Long term cost of carrying to fruition for multiple MOS: 100,000 Soldiers x $100,000 = $10 billion...every few years plus O&S!!

They have devices that greatly assist a single Soldier in logistics: Forklifts! Add palletized loading systems that put the whole flatrack load on the ground and you can break individual pallets down by hand. Other trucks have MSE built into them to offload pallets.

FCS has autoloaders to resupply its manned NLOS-cannon, NLOS-mortar, and mounted combat system (medium tank). Unmanned "mules" will carry Soldier backpack so Soldiers can maneuver with less weight on their back and move longer distances dismounted. Leader-follower techologies will allow fewer drivers with trailing logistics vehicles mimicking the actions of the lead vehicle in convoys. NLOS-Launch System 15-round missile launch container units are dropped in place ready to fire.

Spend that $10 billion making missiles, crew-served weapons, dismounted mortars, and body armor LIGHTER, yet more effective. Precision mortar rounds and Excalibur 155mm for M777 towed howitzers will mean fewer rounds handled by hand.

Posted by: Cole at September 7, 2008 01:06 PM

Actually, the engineer and logistical types would see a lot of benefit from this. Why beat the crap out of troops when you can have a device that makes hard work easier. Sure, you could have three or four guys bust their humps to unload heavy loads from a truck or you could have one or two guys in suits do it faster and without risking injured backs and the like.
It would be a long time before we saw one fit for direct combat. I would think even then it would be in limited service at first. You wouldn't outfit all your troops in it, but, would instead have a division or two like we have with airborne troops.

Posted by: steve at September 7, 2008 12:31 PM

Ruggedize? RUGGEDIZE?!?!?!

Bad writer! Go to your room and think about what you've done. You can come back out when you can use real verbs like the rest of us.

Posted by: BadLiberal at September 7, 2008 10:55 AM

It sounds like an awesome idea. Still, one must see new tech for it's potential for misuse or worse, it's potential to become scrapped and reduced to devices that improve your golf swing or get rid of tough soap scum... or maybe somebody will show up tomorrow from the year 3000 with a warning of a great conflict that destroys humanity, laying it's creators to waste. One thing's for certain, there's no shortage of comic value. just kidding, folks... LOL

Posted by: CyberGhetto at September 7, 2008 01:01 AM

I'm looking forward to this tech eventually replacing wheelchairs. I have a feeling it is going to be a long time before the power supply conundrum is fixed.

Posted by: kelly H at September 6, 2008 02:44 PM

This whole concept is stupid, like TrustButVerify said, you need freedom of movement and mobility. you need to be able to hide or take cover. The gap between actual needs being met and technology today is so vast that it's absurd to be wasting money on this. sure one man's strength is amplified and you could save money by having less men on the ground, but what about support!
3 men may be reallocated by one with this suit, but it will take 10 men to repair, maintain, ship, drive, tweak these suits into battle, it's too complicated and far too unreliable.

you cant have men becoming mobility kills because windows crashed on his suit. suit technology is probably almost here, yes, battery technology on the other hand is not and software reliability is so far short of any battle worthy standard that this whole project is a money pit that we can all pray will never be forced upon some young GI in the middle of a distant war like the "amazing technological wonder" the M16.

Posted by: willy boy at September 6, 2008 02:13 PM

Those of you grumbling about how PFCs need to work, consider that a workable man-amplifier would free up two or three PFCs (or A1Cs) to work somewhere else. Personnel costs are the single biggest chunk of the military budgets... Whether introducing a new piece of equipment like this would result in a net drop in personnel requirements is debatable but it's at least worth considering.

Like every other Heinlein fan, I'm waiting patiently for the day we can deploy cap troopers in marauder suits. That day may be a long way off, but technology like this is a step in that direction.
Maybe.

Posted by: TrustButVerify at September 6, 2008 11:59 AM

The only reason a soldier would need a suit like the picture at the top would be in outer space!!!. a soldier on the ground needs freedom of movement.the ability to blend in to the scenery.to flaten his self out aganst a world of shapes,holes,shades,terrain features that have depressions,elevations,and allows concealment.now if we were in star wars we would be ok.execpt they would need oxygen!!!.

Posted by: ron pond at September 6, 2008 10:01 AM

I see a huge market for Renting & Leasing Exo suits or for these Industries:
Aircraft Services- jumbo jet size
Fuelling rockets, planes
Search & Rescue
Logging
Deep sea diving
archelogy digs
earthmoving
clearing land mines
moving cargo
warehouse
factories
Tech services
load shells into artillary?
WWE Boxing bouts?
WWF boxing?
Ultra boxing.
Paramedic use.
Loading wine, beer, whiskey casks?
Food production
Roadway work
Construction.
Huge $$$$$$

Posted by: stephen russell at September 6, 2008 09:35 AM

What they are proposing as a first step is effectively the big yellow "power loader" from "Aliens".

The first step in producing an exoskeleton is to produce one to fulfill a short term accomplishable utility. A battle version is a decade or more off, possibly longer. By having an immediately practical application it guarantees a steady stream of money to support further development. The other important issue to consider is the fact that the military has stated what they want to do is allow this sort of basic work to be done by fewer soldiers. If you have less soldiers dealing with logistical support, that means the ones that would otherwise be working can be diverted to a combat duty.

The biggest hold up to developing a battlefield model is probably the battery more than anything else. Until it has a battery that lasts at least 24 hours, I'm doubtful it will be seen any where near combat. Right now their test model has to be plugged directly into a generator to operate.

Posted by: JN at September 6, 2008 01:38 AM

Watch the exoskeleton in use here. Impressive!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhj3Z9o6t0g

Posted by: Piotr at September 6, 2008 01:16 AM

Oh please, not hear too.

Like strike capable UCAVS, combat capable exoskeletons are decades away from wide-spread service, not years.

Posted by: pfcem at September 5, 2008 11:13 PM

Any PFC in uniform is there to work,no ifs or but's...Are you even close to the military?And why
is it,when I cancel my account they switch me with
a hacker and paste my so called IP in banned status????Beause it's a work of rank...

Posted by: reshtet at September 5, 2008 08:31 PM

I understand the concept of using the exoskeleton for logistics as a way to advance the technology.
But really, are we going to spend millions so PFC's have less work to do? Right.
I think it is a poor sales pitch.
How about a bullet proof PFC, with built in NVG, communications and GPS due to wearing an exoskeleton.
How about a built in sound sensor in each suit; that with two other suits allows software to give range and elevation of sniper fire?
Now if they can just figure out how to make enough energy to run the thing.
How about a small six stroke engine running an incredibly high octane fuel? Small, high speed turbine?
Even if the fuel just lasts an hour, they could work out a system like the firemen use to replace oxygen systems before they run out.
Granted, this may be hard under fire, but that whole "bulletproof" thing would make it worth it....

Posted by: Dennis at September 5, 2008 07:59 PM

Why use Ai? People love war and death but if they don't then they are known as hacks...Secular
people are only those two things people...The world is as small as that!

Posted by: reshtet at September 5, 2008 07:16 PM

HAHA!Don't hook it up to a pc or it will be compromised by your own IT's like the NAVY ones
hacking me,and telling lies to mods,admn and webmasters...I found it to be,Explorer nodes,clone-nodes and Javabean bridging etc...TOKINS are a majic syntaxe for sure...

Posted by: reshtet at September 5, 2008 07:11 PM

Ward, I think you meant "Mobile Infantry"

Posted by: Alex at September 5, 2008 06:18 PM

To be perfectly reasonable, I think this is an awesome application for the firefighting people of the world; in its current form, it is more versatile to use when trying to free someone from a trapped car! Use it in it's current form, and learn what the hinderances are from people who are using it in-service!

Posted by: Vstress at September 5, 2008 04:25 PM

There are very few circumstances that I can imagine when an exoskeleton would be preferrable to a robot which is remote controlled with a glorified Wii, or for loading type tasks, a small forklift like vehicle like a Mule brought on the back of a truck.

Remote control grasping and loading robots are not terribly high tech. The guys who pick up my recycling every couple of weeks have one (a highly agile grapsing arm, not a couple of prongs that pick up a dumpster). Yes, you'd need to do legs for all terrain capability for some uses, but why should robot legs be any harder to do than exoskeleton legs?

The main argument I might see for having a person in it would be sensory awareness, but many exoskeleton designers contemplate digitally enhanced sensory systems as well as muscular ones.

The only reason to have an exoskeleton rather than a robot, it would seem to me, is when the purpose is to transport the person, rather than to get something done, much like a prosthetic, but for someone who has weak muscles, rather than missing limbs. But, even then, an exoskeleton seems preferrable to alternatives like small personal sized ATVs only in the most extreme or confined terrains.

Posted by: ohwilleke at September 5, 2008 03:58 PM

This exoskeleton is a great example of the long-term and revolutionary technology development that the military does well. If they make this work, imagine the civilian applications: this could be used everywhere from construction to nursing (seriously, nursing - any idea of how common back injuries among nurses who have to handle patients all day?) I'm pretty sure that the stumbling block will be the power supply, though.

Posted by: George Skinner at September 5, 2008 03:33 PM

atacms:

They do see the "mechanized infantryman," as you put it. This sort of development is iterative, of course. The logistics version is more doable and missionize-able on arrival.

Posted by: Ward at September 5, 2008 03:02 PM

Wish they'd hurry up I want my Queadluun-Rau now!

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/sdfmacross/queadluun-rau.htm

Posted by: Takeo at September 5, 2008 01:50 PM

I'm sure the army is happy to see development go into a logistics version of the project. It seems like the best solution to me. Combat exoskeletons are probably a decade away, at least. But a logistical version could be operational right now, giving you plenty of time to work out all the little kinks (like balance, power storage, freedom of movement, etc). Armoring it up seems like the last step. If the thing is going to have a major systems problem, better we work out the bugs when its walking around a warehouse rather than in a firefight.

Posted by: Brian at September 5, 2008 01:22 PM

Ward,

It seems that Natick is working solely on using it for logistics. Did they mention or do they forsee its potential as an evolution of mechanized infantryman, where instead of disembarking from a Bradley, you ARE the Bradley so to speak.

Considering the urbanization of today AND tomorrow's battlefields (and yes that DOES include the next BIG war), shouldn't the Army look into work on developing an armored, highly mobile unit that will help the infantryman secure areas that perhaps are too narrow for armored vehicles, yet just right for an exo-equipped soldier?

Ask Natick if they recall any work that Los Alamos did with the Pittman project? This was Reagan era program designed to develop an armored, fast exo able to take .50 caliber rounds! I think processing power was the issue then in addition to power sources. NOw it's really just the power source.

I know Sarcos seems to envision more ambitious uses for exos than simply logistical, I'm just curious how the Army as a whole sees this?

Posted by: atacms at September 5, 2008 01:14 PM

Exosceleton is just one part of Battle Suit, wich is moving this suit. i dont think we will talk about it like about bodyarmor.
----------------------------------------------

They also have a vision of assisting Air Force and Navy ordies with loading missiles and bombs.

----------------------------------------------

never. why should someone use this exosceleton when he can do it cheaper, saver and more efective with lifter?

Posted by: jonny the fart at September 5, 2008 12:59 PM