Why not just go with Star Trek uniforms, instead of the Empire from Star Wars!! They could wear them along with the flying cars and robots on the flight line. LOL. Like many have said I retired last year and just in time!!! Happy Veterans Day!!

Posted by: Nick at November 11, 2008 10:06 PM

I went through AFROTC and did an active duty tour in the Air Force before defecting to the Army reserve components and am now a retired field grader.

I'm not going to bash either this misidentified Billy Mitchell Uniform or the actual Hap Arnold Uniform any further than it's already been bashed, although I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. The uniform is only a symptom of the identity crisis the Air Force has had its entire existence as a separate service, something I realized even as a cadet and a lieutenant in the Air Force.

The Air Force was as autonomous as it needed to be back in 1944 when it wiped out the German Luftwaffe over its own turf and was about to do the same to the Japanese naval air arm and army air force. They should have applied the rule of "If it ain't broke, don't f*** with it!" back then. Who was the head of the Air Force at the time? Hap Arnold.

By designing a dress uniform in the late 1940s that tried to be as different from the Army's as practical, the AF uniform board made the AF uniform as unmilitary as possible: pre-tarnished buttons and badges, no unit insignia on the dress uniforms, the "bus driver" look. It's a chicken and egg issue, but the Air Force largely divested itself from its Army heritage AND its identity as a fighting force starting in 1947, and that has haunted that service for the last 61 years. The Air Force in 1947 was like a rebellious teenager who left home and turned his back on his family as soon as he turned 18. It still is.

The various uniform changes from Ralph Kramden to McPeak Airlines and now to the the Hap and Billy Show are a symptom of this identity crisis. The uniform issue and identity crisis are also symptoms of larger problem in cosmetic "fixes" with no solution to the substance of the issues. As several other people on this thread have already said, what is the AF doing wasting time and money on dress uniforms in the middle of a war with Congress screaming for budget cuts?

I strongly recommend everyone read the book SILENT KNIGHTS by Dr. Alan Diehl, who was the Air Force's senior safety scientist and who articulates the problem nicely.

I'm not necessarily advocating that the AF merge back with the Army or even a "single service" concept like the Canadian military. And I'll be the first to admit the Army isn't perfect. Just getting in my 2 cents' worth as an outsider who used to be on the inside.

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Posted by: angel at October 21, 2008 05:25 AM

MSgt Jones AD USAF

This uniform shows an shows a cronic lack of focus for what's important. The people working uniform issues for the United States Air Force should be fired. The PT gear is a joke and the above belted suit makes me weep in despair. I'd like to see a uniform that I can be proud to wear and improves retention. It's already tough enough to keep the good folks and get them to re-enlist.

Please don't make my job harder than nessessary.

Posted by: Brian at October 17, 2008 12:58 PM

It looks like a combination of a unisex Mao suit and a 1930s era army uniform with a belt. Congratulations. Now all that is needed is breast pads for the male suit and the feminists and femi-male officers of today's U.S.A.F. will be well on the way to achieving their obvious goal - complete eradication of the "bad" gender. Manditory gonad extraction for males next?

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Posted by: angel at October 16, 2008 04:27 AM

I went in the AF in '69. The dress blues were great looking then, I still have mine after all these years, (still fit in them too) and really can't understand a need for any change. We all looked sharp then. Why the need to change what isn't broken?

Posted by: Mark Allan at October 12, 2008 01:44 AM

I WANT MY NEW AIR FORCE DRESS UNIFORM AS IT APPEARS IN THE ARTICLE. HOW MUCH AND WHEN, LET'S GET BUSY ON THE PRODUCT... DEFINITELY A GO HERE!!!

Posted by: RRR at October 10, 2008 11:04 AM

Y YES I APPROVE OF THIS NEW DESIGN, ITS VERY COOL. ITS DEFINITELY A GO WITH ME. CONTINUE TO AIM HIGH !

Posted by: RRR at October 10, 2008 11:01 AM

I think the People who keep changing the uniforms way tooooo often should really be concentrating on what is really needed, like proper protective gear and weapons for the military personnel who are outside an office Really Protecting Americans, and less time on how a uniform worn in an office LOOKS. I am a disabled Air Force veteran and my husband has been in the Air Force for 25 years and we have seen way too many UN-NECCESARY changes to the uniforms over the years. When I was "Active" I stayed in WWII era dorm buildings, shouldn't things like that be up-dated before a "New Look" is implemented to "Uniforms".

Posted by: C Green at October 10, 2008 01:00 AM

Sarah,
You rock. I wish there were more folks like you commenting on here. You are one of the few that get it. The most enjoyable time I've had as a shirt was with the cops. Keep up the good work!

Defender!
Hooah!

Posted by: Sh1rt at October 10, 2008 12:42 AM

Jimbo, If you get the chance to read this, you know not of what you speak. I have a comm maintenance background and have done tactical comms, combat comms, and airborn comms. I deployed Desert Shield/Storm, Southern Watch, OIF/OEF, Horn of Africa. I have slept in the mud and ate tons of sand. I've been in more than half my life and will continue to bust a hump when it is called for. In my daily duties as a 1st sgt, there is not usually the requirement for me to get dirty. I will don a chem suit and a gas mask along side everyone else when we exercise. I still get dirty when the Airmen need a hand. Hell, I'm usually grabbing them to give me a hand. I will mock the folks that wear zoomeralls that don't fly planes. It is a "flight" suit, not a "sit-at-a desk" suit. How much money do you think we spend on that uniform. I pay for mine; flight suits are issued. They ain't cheap. I am proud of the AF AND the blues I get to wear each Monday. Don't worry about the Airmen doing the grunt work. They are still in there BDUs/ABUs.
And you're damn skippy we need to upgrade our aircraft, but whining about the uniform isn't going to prompt your congressman to do anything about it.

Posted by: Sh1rt at October 10, 2008 12:33 AM

You've got to be kidding me...Leaders, please focus on fixing the sizes on the P.T. gear first. I am roughly a 32 to 34 inch individual and have to wear XXlarge shorts and a XLg shirt just so they will fit right and be able to run 3 miles (comfortable). Please focus on the mission then worry about the nice little blue jacket that is probably going to hang in my closet and collect dust due to the nature of my job. Also, I recommend summer weight ABU's since I don't work in an office and am constantly outside. It gets pretty darn hot wearing these things....Have a nice air force day all...

Posted by: Cruzer at October 8, 2008 03:39 PM

I have served in the active duty from 1980-1997 and the Air national Guard now. Don't wear the uniform too often but, I was proud of the style I wore during the cold war era. PLEASE go back to that style. NO $ WILL BE SPENT ON STYLE DEVELOPEMENT IF YOU DO. WE STILL HAVE THAT PATTERN. IT SHOULD NEVER HAD BEEN CHANGED IN THE FIRST PLACE! When I do finally retire I want to remember and keep what I have. I hope it is the correct style (old). BRAC is dimantling the Air Force (because it concentrates only on the Air Force). Too much money is being spent on paying those people for that commission that we can't focus on what our new equipment that is really needed. Get the leadership needed to make the decision to go back to the uniforms that works and that is part of our real heritage and, get the things we need to fly and fight. My son is a MARINE because he was embarrassed to be an Airman. He is proud of me but, the STUPID changes I had to go thru really STEERED him away from the Air Force. GET REAL BEFORE I RETIRE.

Posted by: Tom at October 7, 2008 12:29 PM

Retired MSGT 2001, Glad i did not have to wear this thing...does it come with air condition...lock your knees and you will be down fast. Get real AF.

Posted by: Garret at October 6, 2008 01:48 PM

The proposal uniform looks horrible. The high collar looks very uncomfortable. Since the jacket is not tapered at the waist it does not look neat and professional. I agree with so many of the comments I could laugh. Our other brothers and sisters in arms will make us a laughing stock. Other priorities are far more important like equipment, training and personnel resolves. My heart and prayers go out to AF Active. I thank God I do not have to endure poor priority decisions. It is nice to be retired and not dealing with the stupid decisions.

Posted by: russell banks at October 6, 2008 07:15 AM

I am a retired AF Lt Col...served from 1980-2004 and now teach AFJROTC. I cannot imagine having to put my High School kids in this stupid looking thing. Our current service dress is bad enough...but this looks stupid. If we must change...let's reverse McPeak's folly and bring back the uniform we were all proud to wear. It looked like a military uniform. This high collared costume looks like something from low-budget sci-fi movie...or a cheap halloween costume. As my stdents would say...IT SUCKS!

Posted by: Rob at October 4, 2008 02:55 PM

The Air Force should come up with comfortable, economical and easy to maintain Dress Uniforms. I stayed in fatigues when I was in the Air Force and very rarely wore any of my Dress Uniforms. I can remember the Air Force being wild about Patches on Fatigues, it costed me more to get patches sewed on than the fatigues costed. Members are spending far too much of their time and money on clothes with fancy glitter just to satisfy Ego-Eccentrics.

Posted by: Dan at October 2, 2008 04:27 PM

The Hap Arnold uniform reminds me of a failed experiment back in the 70's---they tried to have Law Enforcement folks wear an "Ike" jacket. It had built in holster clips that made your holster (and firearm) sit up too high---I remember the jacket being featured on posters, but the jacket was ultimately scrapped. And how about the Tony McPeak era that required a v-neck tee for men---it was very unprofessional to have guys chest hair being featured!!!!! I am glad that I'm retired and don't have to suffer through the "Hap Arnold" period!

Posted by: Linda, Great Falls, MT at October 1, 2008 08:30 PM

When Gen McPeak became Chief of Staff, he wanted to modernize the uniform. While I was in the AF, we were taught to think towards the future. With this new uniform they are trying to go back to the past. Besides I think that the proposed uniform looks tacky. Looks like I retired just in time.

Posted by: Will at October 1, 2008 06:34 PM

I spent 23 years in AF Blue, and I have but this to say: if you want the uniform to look "space-age", just get the folks who designed the uniforms for Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica to come up with some ideas. Otherwise, just buy the Army's digital camo and BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Posted by: rcwhiteh at September 30, 2008 10:38 PM

The new uniform....Ha, HaHaHa, HaaaHaHa, HAHA, HEE HEE, GASP, HAHA, HAHA, HAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA ad infinitum...God I'm Glad I'm retired!!!

Posted by: Rick at September 30, 2008 09:26 PM

Got out of the Air Force just in the nick of time because of stupid decisions. This one proves my point.

Posted by: Dave at September 30, 2008 05:37 PM

My personal thought is that 2 things drove this new change:

1) Some general officer trying to get another star by implimenting a wasteful change so that he has something to put on his performance report

2) Spouse of same hen-pecked general officer making a "suggestion" that they change the look of the uniform at dinner at home. My brief experience as an AF Officer indicates that the spouses of general officers (plus some Colonels in key leadership positions) get pampered and coddled almost as much as the generals.

We're in the middle of a war where the Army is spread thin during 15-18 month deployments in Iraq, GI's killed in Pakistan hotel bombings, and where we're losing ground in Afghanistan. The last thing we need to spend money on is a belt on the AF service dress jacket. Give me a freaking break!!

Posted by: Joe at September 30, 2008 04:44 PM

I am currently wearing the ABU. This poorly constructed idea is too hot, fits poorly, and blends in only with the ACU and the rocky parking lots of the Forward Operating Bases. Once outside the wire, this uniform does NOT produce the effects that it was intended to. CAMOUFLAGE.

Posted by: JTAC at September 30, 2008 11:41 AM

Are our USAF leaders serious? Surely they jest! I laughed out loud when I saw the picture of the suggested new uniform. Holy cow, the picture in this article has to be the most rediculous uniform I have ever seen suggested. What an astonishingly rediculous idea. If we don't have morale problems now, try this on for size and watch both the existing morale drop through the floor. Come on you guys ... get real! Get your heads in the game and straighten-up. Our old uniforms looked very sharp and military-like, then we went to the United Airlines civilian look and the people chuckled (out loud!); now it's suggested we go to this clownish, "got dressed in the dark after drinking too much" look. Please, either get serious or drop the issue, you're embarassing all of us!

Posted by: Rocket13 at September 30, 2008 10:28 AM

Are our USAF leaders serious? Surely they jest! I laughed out loud when I saw the picture of the suggested new uniform. Holy cow, the picture in this article has to be the most rediculous uniform I have ever seen suggested. What an astonishingly rediculous idea. If we don't have morale problems now, try this on for size and watch both the existing morale drop through the floor. Come on you guys ... get real! Get your heads in the game and straighten-up. Our old uniforms looked very sharp and military-like, then we went to the United Airlines civilian look and the people chuckled (out loud!); now it's suggested we go to this clownish, "got dressed in the dark after drinking too much" look. Please, either get serious or drop the issue, you're embarassing all of us!

Posted by: Rocket13 at September 30, 2008 10:26 AM

First thing is first. Our AF leadership needs to pull their heads out of their rear ends. Next our leaders need to go to theater, and not take the standard DV tour. For example, go to Scania, go out with some EOD teams responding to an IED. Maybe, (while wearing ABUs, IBA, helmet, rifle...etc) hop in with an Army convoy across the ITO up to let's say Balad, maybe receive some small arms fire along the way just to really get 'em sweatin'. Then once they're up there have them join an A1C babysitting TCN's (vehicle not included). Go work on a busted up C-130 in 120+ degree heat for a few hours, let them hear a couple mortars land, maybe an alarm red too. Then take them to the theater hospital to work at the helipad for a few hours on a busy night. Enough talk about uniform changes, go talk to the Airmen Tier, NCO Tier, the CGOs, then you'll know what the Air Force NEEDS. I think our leaders (for the most part) are competent and have earned their rank appropriately, but I think sometimes they forget about what it's like being in the everyday, practical Air Force and common sense gets tossed out the window. And 'Blue Monday'?...pun intended...need I say more?

Posted by: Anon at September 29, 2008 05:31 PM

I joined the Air Force because I loved the uniform and the pride i feel wearing it. But, that's when we were wearing BDU's. These people need to work on the ABU's before they try to come up with the 1950s dress uniform. I work in the medical field and I'll tell you those ABUs are the most uncomfortable thick and heavy uniforms ever!! Getting patients on a gurney and into an ambulance is becoming a workout in itself while wearing the ABUs. Let's try to come up with a summer weight that is lighter and more breatheable instead of a stupid dress uniform. Matter of fact once you come up with it. LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!! NO MORE CHANGES!!!! I seriously can't afford to change my unifrom every year because you wanna "save" money on deployments!!! BULL@#$%

Posted by: sticking up for airmen at September 29, 2008 12:56 PM

With all due respect, the government in general, DOD and Air Force leadership must all be on drunken binge beyond believe in their quest to spend money for bail-outs, buy-ins and perhaps other scams. ANOTHER new uniform? Regress to WWI in another color? Must be a joke. The wanna-be Eastern Air Lines and Navy combination uniform look attempted by Gen Mc Peak was bad enough. New BX's, now called 'Service Life Style Centers' and 'Shopping Destinations' at 85+ Million (not considering the usual cost overuns)a pop, just because 'the markets and shoppers are changing and want nicer offerings'? Who are we kidding? Improve quality and quantities and best prices of products using the latest technology!!! The Air Force and DoD can't provide necessary weapons systems in a timely manner and they worry about nonsense like this? What happenened to adages of the past: 'Don't fix what isn't broke' and 'we must do more with less?', among others. But like I was told not too long ago "You don't understand -this is a new Air Force." So be it. Kudos to General Schwartz!!! for putting the uniform issue on the back burner.

Posted by: Johann Behnken at September 29, 2008 12:21 PM

Totally rediculous!! There are Senior Airmen that could do a better job running the Air Force. Same sh--, different day! No leadership to speak of and like so many politicians these numbskulls are trying to deflect attention away from all the real world issues....like winning a war. The last thing in this world the Air Force should be concerned with is what the dress blues look like. Hell, who has time to wear that uniform anyway???...The Chief of Staff. Get real and get smart.

Posted by: SMSgt Helton at September 29, 2008 09:36 AM

This looks like a German outfit. They should never think this way. If they need ideas look at the uniforms from Star Trek Next Generation. Those are mondernized!

Posted by: Martha at September 29, 2008 09:16 AM

DUDE.. WTF. Who hired this dude? How are we goign into the future, when he wants us to wear uniforms from the 1950s? Back to basics huh. Now he's got us wearing blues every Monday in the middle of a war. I've got a huge inventory due tomorrow, that I cant even do because I might get my blues dirty. Focus on resources we really need and NOT another uniform. Pretty soon we'll be like the Navy!

Posted by: Yeah Right at September 29, 2008 08:58 AM

The Air Force and its troops deserve better than this. As a retiree I wore the uniform proudly as did my peers. Its no secret that in this day and age te Air Force needs to get back to the basics as does its leadership. There are far more things the Air Force needs than another uniform change and in particular the blues. You do not see the U.S. Army changing uniforms only to change them again. The Blue uniform of the 80's looked great and I might add sharp and instilled tradition. I think folks need to also look at the indirect costs that the troops incur as well when a uniform is changed and changed again. Yeah they get a clothing allowance, but big deal. THere are still alot of out of pocket expenses that some airman just do not need to incur. Get back to the traditions and put that funding where it should be and for better use. Ihonestly can not believe where we have come from and where we have landed.

Posted by: Bill at September 28, 2008 08:39 PM

When I first saw the picture in this article, the proposed Air Force dress coat reminded me of a scaled-down version of the Marine dress uniform. While I like that uniform, I can't say the same thing about this one. One word comes to mind: TER.RI.BLE. Come on, Air Force powers that be. Your active duty members and veterans deserve better than this.

Posted by: Frances at September 28, 2008 07:06 PM

Is this April's Fools? All the problems the Air Force has; tight budgets, old airplanes, etc and they are concerned about this "dumb" looking uniform. When I was in (60/70's) we had some sharp looking uniforms (blue shirt w/tie and the military crease, ike jacket, gabradines with blue service hat to name a few). The other services have to be laughing their heads off over this "I don't know what you call it." Personally, the Marines still have the sharpest looking uniforms. Semper Fi to all the Marines out there from a retired Air Force crew dog.

Posted by: Retired E-8 at September 28, 2008 06:34 PM

Enough of the uniform tweaking 'fer %#%#&$&!' sake.
I could go on a uniform change diatribe but I'll spare you the obvious rhetoric.
Leave well enough alone.
I have inside scoop on the the origin on the ban of the "T" shirt showing with open neck blue shirt, "Clothes Police" spouses wearing husband's rank.
Enough is enough

Posted by: Doc Rodney at September 28, 2008 03:56 PM

Enough of the uniform tweaking 'fer %#%#&$&!' sake.
I could go on a uniform change diatribe but I'll spare you the obvious rhetoric.
Leave well enough alone.
I have inside scoop on the the origin on the ban of the "T" shirt showing with open neck blue shirt, "Clothes Police" spouses wearing husband's rank.
Enough is enough

Posted by: Doc Rodney at September 28, 2008 03:56 PM

I've been in for 15+, undergone what seems a change in the uniform every other year, if not every year. The only "heritage" the Air Force has is to constantly change- as noted by other services witty banter, if you've ever worked in a joint assignent. Is the change for the Air Force or to make us look just plain stupid...and I'm expected to wear it? You've got to be kidding! Stick to designing a better Air Force, not a "better uniform?" I say leave the friggin thing alone and stop changing.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 28, 2008 03:32 PM

This just proves that as "smart" as the general staff thinks it is, this colossal brain fart really stinks. What a waste!

Posted by: Maj Dave at September 28, 2008 02:15 PM

1918 General Pershing uniform? It looks like a chairman Mao jacket with brass!!!! I was in from 1966 to 1970 and we had some good looking uniforms. It's the military not a fashion show!!!!! Let the seagoing bellhops have the fancy uniforms ours look just fine circa 60's & 70's.

Posted by: James G Elder at September 28, 2008 12:11 PM

I am glad I retired. For some reason the leadership in the AF belives they must be difined by what new uniform they can bring into the service while they are in charge. I cannot belive once agin they go to changing the uniform while we are in the middle of a global conflict, what is worse is they fail to see those warfighters out on the front lines (SF, CC, PJ, etc) who are accomplishing ground warfare and provide them with a real good combat uniform...one that is not hotter then hell...stop thinking office wear, start asking the Airman fighting the war what they need...

Posted by: Roger Brushaber, USAF Ret at September 28, 2008 08:18 AM

It's truly hard to believe that we're talking about new uniforms changes while fighting a significant war in two zones. Every penny saved could be directed to the total war effort or for programs to give our single service members a better quality of life at home station. Our image with the american public has been really tarnished due to the nuclear weapon misteps,our former air force's (Gen.Moseley) chief of staff lack of focus in supporting the war effort in Iraq and Afghanistan. Addressing a uniform issue now is just totally condescending in attitude to the general public..tax payers.Wake up air force leaders, stop the wasteful agenda now!

Posted by: joebrucee at September 28, 2008 06:54 AM

I'm hoping no one else crunched the numbers and posted this before me, but the end of fiscal year 2008 force shaping was supposed to bring us in the ball park of 328,600 enlisted personnel. Someone wants to authorize $125,000,000 to be spent on this uniform design. That equates to about $380 per enlisted member from the newest Airman Basic to the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. If I'm not Mistaken $380 would buy a full new set of ABUs and maybe even steel toed boots (haven't wasted my money on staining a set of them in the engine shop yet). I'm all for the Tradition of the Air Force, I'm 3rd Generation myself and would love to be able to be more proud of it, but when things like this get in the way of common sense it really frustrates me that we have the command we have.

There have been mentions of how the force morale is circling the drain and something needs to be done about it. spending $125 million on a new uniform won't do it. spending $125 million on taking care of the needs of your troops and their families whether it be monetarily or in the form of new uniforms so they don't have to buy them or even putting the $125 million towards better bullet proof vests for when we have to help the army and make convoy runs.

I have one simple request from my chain of command. Stop talking about morale and do something about it.

Posted by: SrA Kaufmann at September 28, 2008 12:55 AM

Hang in there! One more tweak and we are there. Just replace the nazi SS collar with a normal flap collar, lose the top button and belt and we are back to the four button, four flap pocket, pre-McPeak service dress. Put this one in the closet with the white ceremonial (wore it once to graduate from ACSC) and the American Airlines wannabe with naval stripes for officers rank (turned promotion ceremonies from a pin on to a coat change.) If you want to return to roots bring back the Combination three, the blue wool shirt with military creases, worn with a tie. Think Gregory Peck as Gen Frank Savage in 12 O'Clock high, except in blue.

Posted by: Mike S at September 28, 2008 12:09 AM

I entered the AF when it was a good service 1962-1966, and now they all look like Boy Scouts in training. Ya I wore the 1505's and the good looking blues, and was happy looked good and did not have to have it tailored for fit. 125 mil OMG and they make the vets pay for meds even from the VA???? Yes they can order for a new uniform change whenever they want but they can't put some of the excess into the veteran that needs help... Oh yes not to say that you can join a pscript card club and go to the VA and get your drugs cheaper than the co-payment they charge you for the same drug. Besides that when I enlisted I got my first set of all my clothes and only had to pay for then when they were worn out or needed repair that could not be fixed. What I can't figure out is why the change the fit of the uniform don't care what color your blood is or where you live, be on a SAC base sometime......

Posted by: Big Jon at September 27, 2008 06:41 PM

I entered the AF in Jan 1957. A couple of years later the AF got rid of two of the sharpest uniforms they ever had; the blue Ike Jacket and the Army kahki shirt and pants worn with blue flight cap, blue tie and blue belt. Of course, that was during the days when pot bellies were not part of the standard AF uniform, and General McPeak was only a figment of someone's imagination.

Posted by: Mike Hahn at September 27, 2008 05:25 PM

I was deployed for 365 days and sent an AF Survey on the new uniform, you can imagine my response. Not sure what has happened to our sharp leadership, I came in during the Colonel/General Horner days, who understood mission, compliance and accountability and slammed buffoonery as soon as it reared it's ugly head. But, I do hope this next generation of leaders display more "Courage" and not Salemanship as they now have some real world "boots on the ground" experience that will influence perspective and priorities.

Respectfully

Retiring very soon...

Posted by: Donna at September 27, 2008 09:19 AM

I am pleased that the chief of staff has decided to put a hold on these uniform changes. If the picture is anything to go by--these jackets will not be complimentary to anyone who wears them. I would much rather see the money proposed for this change be put into somthing that will actually benefit the members of the Air Force.

Posted by: Joanne at September 27, 2008 08:00 AM

Yes, this is true and our new Chief of Staff has put the idea on hold. The intended thought process was to return the AF to its heritage, mainly the look of Gen. Billy Mitchell, pre-World War 2 Army Air Corp. But at some other time. Not now. We're too deep into a two+ front war to be messing with this idea.

Posted by: Greg at September 27, 2008 02:18 AM

They MUST be kidding! First, they can't even make the models jackets fit right. That's scary for the normal folks who will have to wear these disasters without benefit of constant tailoring to allow for normal body changes. The cut shows every body flaw. Without the "break" of a lighter shirt collar the overall effect is dull and centers attention on the guy's fat gut (did I just say that?). Belts are a horrible idea under any condition, and this style is suggestive of SS/Gestapo uniforms, like something out of Indiana Jones. It isn't like the Rhode Island State Troopers, who have an awesome, cool, and unique uniform that hasn't changed; this AF uniform jacket is such an extreme change to a poor style ill-fitting mess that..... I can't even express it. And the COST; why not spend the money on (gasp!) better medical care? Care for dependents? Updating medical facilities, housing, new ambulances? Navy uniforms, by the way, are SO nice to look at. And Marines Corps dress blues? Take your breath away. Don't see them changing uniform styles every five minutes!

Posted by: Air Force FAMILY at September 27, 2008 01:24 AM

The country is running out of money and we are paying Generals to come up with a blue version of General Pershing's 1918 uniform!

Posted by: Patrick Quinn at September 26, 2008 10:51 PM

I'm sure its just a joke, no one in there right mind would even suggest a uniform such as this, except for those people who dont have a job and their only purpose in life is to make changes to justify their existence. I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2008 10:32 PM

Have to agree this is another step backwards. I spent 27 years (6 AD Air Force)and saw this uniform at the Nevada Professional Airmen s Conference. Uniforms normally progress not regress. You build on what you learn. The service went to all BDUs in the late 80s to cut costs, now we blow scarce DOD dollars on uniform changes that not only the majority of personnel despise, but waste valuable time and resources on this. I voiced my disgust then and now. Glad that as a retiree- if I choose to wear the uniform at an approved function, I can wear the uniform I had at retirement. I would not want to be buried in this version- uncomfortable for eternity.

Posted by: Tim ANG Retired 1st Sgt at September 26, 2008 10:29 PM

I am a retired USAFR CCM so I dealt with many many changes in the uniforms over the years. Most were very positive changes, of course I still lament the elimination of the 1505 uniforms of the 70's and before as well as the update of the Air Force emblem. BUT this proposed change has to be most absurd thing that I have ever seen come across the drawing board. Thank goodness I am retired, this looks like a clown outfit and I would not want to be seen in one. Take the money for this research and do something decent for the troops.

Posted by: James Weaver at September 26, 2008 10:01 PM

I am currently a SRA in the Air Force and I can honestly say they are horrible at designing uniforms. ESPECIALLY for women. The new ABU's are sized horribly and they are supposed to have women's sizes. My top is a size two which was two times to big still so I had to have it altered. Then my pants are a 6 and are to small in the waist but if I had got the eight then they would of been 3 times to big in the thighs and I would of ended up spending about 20 more dollars to get those altered. I don't know how hard it is to figure out the shape of a woman. I wish the Air Force would stop making uniform changes and start thinking about the ladies and get us better FITTING uniforms.

Posted by: Becca at September 26, 2008 07:29 PM

Man, where do I start?
1) I've worn stiff collared uniforms like that and they're VERY uncomfortable. As usual, these new uniforms make the fat guys look fatter and make the women look like men. Shoot the designer.
2) Here's an idea: spend money on all the tankers and equipment the AF needs. New clothes? Are you kidding??? How about putting resources into making sure the AF stops dropping the ball with the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal?
3) The AF is pitiful with all the costume changes. The McPeak uniform was a big improvement (other than the stupid officer sleeve rank thing he tried). Go back to that.

4) I can't BELIEVE how much we keep changing the uniform. The size of the AF is the smallest it's ever been and the morale is in the toilet. Everyone is waiting for the AF to be folded back into the Army, based on all the Army duties we're having to do now. Everyone's trying to work out like the army, train like the army.... It's ridiculous how insecure the service is. We used to be the bomb. Now, all we're known for is flying nukes to the wrong place, taking launch codes out of silos accidentally, firing Chiefs, and god damned uniform changes. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN THE AIR FORCE WAS COOL? That's what we get for promoting the supposed "best and brightest" these last 20 years. Look at the mess these idiots have made of what used to be the most envied service. I hope you're proud of yourselves!!!

Posted by: Ryan at September 26, 2008 07:02 PM

If I were still on active duty I would find this to be a great embarassment to wear. I hope that a promotion or cash award wasn't given to the person who came up with this !!!

Posted by: Gary at September 26, 2008 06:44 PM

why bother? As a retired SMSgt, I think I might have worn my blues 10 times in my 23 year career.
As a Stan/Eval Loadmaster on C-130's, I always wore a nice worn out flight suit, before that I was a REDHORSE Electrician and wore first the OD fatigues and then later the Original BDU'S, the bag was definitely the better of all uniforms.

Posted by: Mudd1206 at September 26, 2008 06:35 PM

How many badly tankers can be bought with 125 million? Think about it...stupid looking uniforms or airplanes? Does the Sec of the A/F need help with this decision? If so, we have the wrong man in the job (again)!

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 26, 2008 06:06 PM

OK...I have it, the solution to this blunder or mess or just BAD decision making. Back to the basics!

To start, Leave the Class A Uniform alone. No change, leave it as it is...for now!

Next everyone to include ALL ranking officers, EVERYONE (flight crew or not) who is currently wearing a flight suit more than 2 hrs before scheduled flight and 2 hrs after flight, gets a reprimand in their files. Everyone who is not on flight status and is or has been known to wear a flight suit, gets a suspended bust for 6 months. Everyone that is not working in a job that required fatigues (mechanic, CE, cooks, select medical staff etc) must wear their Class A's everyday. If you are scheduled to fly, you change your uniform prior to heading out to the plane just before you crew brief or file your flight plan.

Once a month, each base will have a parade. Take the 10 LOWEST ranking individuals on base as the judges. Everyone gets to march, Wing C/C, Base C/C, everyone. The judges will select the best squadron and then, next month they get a pass and don't have to march.

This should take care of the little bit of morale that is remaining the USAF today. When everyone is happy, then, change the uniform. Let each Wing submit a rendering of that that Wing thinks it should look like men and womens. Once all renderings are available have a MS PowerPoint presentation made of all of them and send to all Wings and allow them to vote. They CAN NOT vote for their own rendering. When a winner is selected, make the change and everyone will be happy again. Pride will overcome the A/F and moral will surely go up too. Everyone will calmer to wear their new zoot suit everyday. If you buy two Class A's you get a discount. Next, start on the hat. Gotta do something with the hat so it will match the new uniform.

Now is this an idea or what? Can't say it is a waste of time...the A/F is already doing that every 3 to 4 years with their uniform changes. This is just a different kind of approach to waste time and money and increase re-enlistments.
Ya gotta love it!

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 26, 2008 05:57 PM

First of all,the new Chief of Staff should be more mindful of the true mission of our Airmen serving TODAY. Service Dress Mondays, I think is a waste of time for Airmen. Are we not in a "war" mode? Sure, Commanders' have a say in this issue; however, this "Service Dress Mondays" should have never come up in the first place. Our Airmen are more important than if they have a Service Dress uniform. Put our Airmen in the uniform that will best sute the "MISSION" at hand.
As for this new Service Dress Jacket. Throw the design in the garbage. This thing looks like something out of WWI. I'm a proud retired Airman and if I had to put that thing on, I would ware BDUs first. Can this mistake, $125,000,000.00 is to much to pay for this uniform desaster.

Posted by: Gary L. Bridges at September 26, 2008 05:52 PM

I've been to Texas, 4 state fairs, 32 goat ropings, and served 22 1/2 years in the USAF and this is a waste of money and if approved would be changed with a new CSAF comes to office.

Posted by: Ken at September 26, 2008 05:09 PM

Some other General Officer wants to leave a legacy of some sort on his Air Force. In the 80's it was paint everything Creech Brown, but turned out OK. McPeak's uniform was a bold move, but it's turned out OK, and is still OK. This new uniform, to change just for the sake of maintaining heritage, is stupid. Back then, they got rid of it for a reason, probably still a good reason to avoid it now. Come on General, you made a mistake, own up to it, your ego will be OK. 25 yrs USAF/ANG Retired MSgt

Posted by: Paul at September 26, 2008 04:55 PM

I agree with the folks, that there are more important issues facing the Air Force than uniforms and a belt... this isn't a fashion show! I mean we have war to worry about... not clothes!

Posted by: Amber Westerlund at September 26, 2008 04:04 PM

It is very concerning that us officer has to continue to expend $$$$$ with every modification or change in uniforms. This is and has been a very costly endeavor and needs to cease and desist. If they were to be provided free then bring it on! However $125 million and we expect who to cover that the taxpayer. Don't you think that the $700 Trillion bailout is enough without piling on. If the AF is going to spend this type of money, spend it on upgading our equipment for crying out loud.

Posted by: Air Force Loyalist at September 26, 2008 03:52 PM

My husband and I are both retired AF (1997 and 2000) and went through so many uniform changes, it was ridiculous! While I hated the McPeak fiasco of a dress uniform, at least it seemed comfortable. This high-necked monstrosity looks like it would be so uncomfortable -- and what abou those of us "older" folks who don't really need to highlight our waistlines and don't want to choke on that stupid collar?!?!?! We're thanking our lucky stars we're retired!
Come on, Air Force, we can do better than this. Spend the money on the IMPORTANT things, like upgrading the AF fleet of aircraft! How about new tankers and fighters, as well as improved training? I can think of hundreds, if not thousands, of better ways to spend the taxpayers' money.
Ellen Stevens, SMSgt ,USAF, (RET)

Posted by: Ellen at September 26, 2008 03:33 PM

If we are going to change uniforms lets go back to the ones that were worn during WWII Pink and Greens. They were good looking and neat. Forget the new Blues, they are not what the troops want.

Posted by: M.L. Speed at September 26, 2008 03:21 PM

Shades of 1917. WOW!!!. Good thing you'd never catch me in one of those monkey suits - too old.
Don't know who is on the uniform selection board but, how about assigning only the CMSgt's of each major command to the board, one from each command, and only the Chief's. They can do the same for the officer uniforms. But, keep a motif for repsenting the USAF and NO compromises. I suggest leading edge technology. The mess dress uniform for the 90's was a smart, sharp unifrom and airmen (et al) were proud to wear it.

Posted by: Richad S. Jones at September 26, 2008 02:34 PM

The Navy, Marine Corp and the Army, for the most part, have traditions. The uniform is part of military tradition. The Air Force seems to resist tradition. When the Navy departed from their traditional sailor uniform, they soon realized their mistake and corrected it. The Air Force, a spin off from the Army, has adopted/retained some brown shoe Army's management policies that are not appropriate for a highly technical service. One such policy is 20-year retirement or RIFing the lower grades because they cannot charge up the hill. That policy is another economically inefficient and demoralizing policy that causes loss of experience and expertise. If we adopt other services policies, should they not have value and purpose? Why can't leadership strive for more practical changes that instill pride and promotes productivity.

What was wrong with the "semi-tux" of the 60's? It had class. The air Force has made many uniform "dress code" changes during recent years including authorizing the wearing of jungle fatigues state side. Air Force personnel are seen in commercial facilities all over this country wearing jungle fatigues and it does not seem appropriate. The casual dress adopted by much of industry and the military has done little to improve productivity or increase pride in the work place. Appropriate dress in the work place and a classy formal uniform for dress functions would instill pride.

I'm sure that changing the dress uniform through the Governments burdensome contracting process would cost the Government a great deal; however, uniforms are purchased by the airmen, NCOs and Officers. Some purchases, I assume, are done with a uniform allowance. I don't believe that allowances are increased or anyone is reimbursed for ill advised or discretionary uniform changes made by the leadership.

The leadership needs to listen to the troops. When the navy changed the uniform of the enlisted ranks, they realized their mistake and returned to the traditional "sailer" uniform.

No, I do not like the proposed uniform. I hope that inertia in the Pentagon is not stoppable and promotions have not been given for this effort.

Posted by: LM at September 26, 2008 02:00 PM

Where is the leather cross strap and belt to support sidearms? Or, for that matter, a row of brass buttons placed horizontally across the front? Let's not forget the gold leather helmet to top it off with the initials AAF emblazoned on the front and some knee high jack boots. I think this uniform was designed by the Lee brothers. They are best known by UG Lee and Home Lee! Spend the money wasted on idiotic things like these uniform proposals on weapons systems and better pay for active duty or to off set the cost of TriCare for retirees. Retirees support the active Troops and in turn, the active Troops should support military retirees because if you stay 20 years or more, eventually you'll be a retiree one day yourself. Hmmmmmmmm?

Posted by: Wurtsmith lives! at September 26, 2008 01:26 PM

As a proud veteran of the USAF I would like to see any uniform changes reflect ideals of the future. Perhaps looking at the futuristic jumpsuit uniforms from Star Trek series would be appropriate. After all, Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek has inspired countless millions including NASA scientists.

I prefer the jumpsuits worn by Belana Troi and Tom Paris in the episode where they piloted the Flyer in a cosmic race. The colors and style were superb.

Posted by: Frederick W. Brink at September 26, 2008 01:13 PM

Think! Regulations will require that the belt has to be buckled while in the uniform. In case of an air transport water crash landing, the time spent removing the jacket via unbuckling vs. ripped buttons is substantial. This could cost lives.

Posted by: JackE at September 26, 2008 01:03 PM

What a DUMB and a STUPID Idea. - - and a waste of money

Posted by: LARRY MCKENNA at September 26, 2008 12:47 PM

I am a retired Air Force Senior NCO and I think all these uniform changes is nothing but a waste of money. The last big change made officers look like airline pilots and it only lasted a little while and then they went back to the original uniform. Instead of wasting millions of dollars for a uniform change, why not spend that money on something USEFUL such as, our military folks that need financial assitance or for better protective gear for the people that are in a combat zone or for a better increase salaries for our military people including the retirees. Why is it that everytime we have a new person in charge, they always want to make rediculous mondane changes just to leave their mark.

Posted by: Pat at September 26, 2008 12:33 PM

It must be nice to get paid to come to work and think of the most rediculous ideas for uniforms. We(Air Force) waste too much money and time on changing the uniform. Give me the $125 million and I'll show you a uniform. They're crazy!

Posted by: Darryl at September 26, 2008 12:00 PM

You know, after reading quite a few comments about the NEW Dress uniform, I think that I have to agree with everyone else. I have only been in the Air National Guard for nine years, but I also spent 9 years in the Army National Guard and I also spent 9 more years on Active duty in the Army. I really do not like this proposal, at all. The best uniform I ever wore was the very first Dress Uniform I wore. The Army Class A's from the early 1980's. It was comfortable, somewhat cool in the summer, and warm in the winter. I don't understand why we keep changing the stupid Dress uniform. If the Air Force could take that old Army uniform and dye it blue, change the buttons, and the belt. I think we would have a uniform that would be functional AND comfortable. I also agree with most everyone else about the ABU's. They are EXTREMELY hot in the desert. I spent five months over there in 1990-1991, and I just cannot understand why we are being forced to wear a POLYESTER uniform, of all things! Has the uniform board EVER been to SW Asia? It's things like this that are making people want to get out, not the war. If you are going to change the unform AGAIN, then at least make it something comfortable and easy to wear, not this monstrosity!

Posted by: David at September 26, 2008 11:47 AM

After reading the article, $125 million for the uniform change? A uniform that looks like the Nazis SS troops. The Neck colar will rub your throat and will cut into your neck everytime you look down. In my opinion, we should just stop fixing the uniform and keep what we have. If you want to spend $125 Million on something that is effective and works, then give it to the enlisted personnel, not to something like this "New" uniform. The uniform is suppose to seperate the different branches, not look like Hitler is running the Board. What we have works, so just stick with what works! Like many have stated, "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it!". If you want to fix something "Broke" send the money that is projected for this ridiculous uniform to the "Broke" enlisted personnel, that will "Fix" some financial problems!

Posted by: Nikkia at September 26, 2008 11:01 AM

My biggest complaint concerning uniform changes does not have to do with the change, but rather that they never provided funds for the sewing of all the accouterments on the new uniform; not to mention that the clothing allowance also amounted to 25% of the total cost to replace all uniforms; so it would take four years to "replace" the uniforms.

Talking about priorities, why are we replacing jet fighters in the first place (last time I checked, Al Qaeda doesn't have any), rather than putting all the effort expended in the last years on the Raptor, and the Lightning, towards a new tanker. Talk about short sighted leadership!

Of course what can you expect from a service that only demands accountability from the enlisted and not the higher echelons (e.g., the Taiwan fiasco; no Article 15s, no courts martial for Generals that definitely were derelect in their duties of safe guarding nuclear components).

Posted by: William at September 26, 2008 11:00 AM

It is sad that in an era of shoddy nuke accountability, and Airmen in need of strong mission leadership, that we would even be discussing this. The proposed uniforms are sickening and "Nazi" was the very first thing that came to mind. Remember McPeak? It only takes one bad idea (or many in his case) at the right level and all hell realigns and people start jumping through the highest hoops possible. I feel for the folks still in and I am glad I served but glad I'm retired now. I wonder how Gen Fogelman would react to all of this??

Posted by: Scott at September 26, 2008 10:42 AM

Here is my 2 cents worth! I can't belief my eyes! These uniforms are terrible! Like others who've commented, my first thought was 'Nazi Uniform....What?, Why?!'

That collar would be very irritating for everyone.

Posted by: Larry B-Retired Major at September 26, 2008 10:31 AM

These new BDU coats look like something from Hitler's reign!!!

Posted by: Rene' at September 26, 2008 09:58 AM

Well the Army is going Blue with their new service dress. Why don't we go Green! The WWII USAAF :Pinks and Greens" is truely a great looking uniform. By the way, having worn the Marine Corps Dress Blues while in ROTC, trust me, you do not want that stupid vice of a collar aound your neck. And what is the underlying shirt. In Haps day it was collarless. Won't that look grand while your working around the office!

Posted by: Mike at September 26, 2008 09:49 AM

Who came up with this ridiculous uniform change? As usual it probably stems from some general that that wants to put his/her stamp on the AF, or a fast burner that wants to create a reason to get promoted, or may be someone that wants to land a job with a defense contractor after their military career is over. The AF has more important things like procuring warfighting equipment. Let's do something that probably hasn't been done before, ask the lower ranking airmen their opinion since they will have to purchase and wear this silly uniform,if it is adopted. Let's change the paradigm and spend money on useful items. I spent 20 years in the Air Force and this has to be one of the most, if not the most ridiculous proposal to change the uniform. NO to this useless, unnecessary change to the uniform!

Posted by: LR at September 26, 2008 09:48 AM

I like them very much. Great job.

Posted by: Natalie Greene at September 26, 2008 09:44 AM

You've got to be kidding me!

Daniel E. "Stump" Sowada
Col USAF (Retired)
Austin, Texas

Posted by: Daniel E Sowada at September 26, 2008 08:24 AM

I thought this was the Air Force....why are we trying to look like Marines?

Posted by: Ron at September 26, 2008 08:05 AM

Those are the new air force uniforms? The ones in the pic?
They suck! They look like a cross between waffen SS and hotel doormen.

Posted by: Olternaut at September 26, 2008 07:38 AM

I have read the majority of comments and I must say everyone seems to be bothered my the proposed design of the service dress uniform. I agree with them. The theme they are using is let's get back to our heritage. Our heritage officially began in 1947 when we became the Air Force; I know change is a part of life but make a change for the better not the worse. Someone posted that a slight change to the old service dress was all that needed and I agree. I have grown to except the current service dress uniform but I do not wear it that often. My job requires me to be able to get dirty on an occasion along with some office work. I'd rather have comfort and a good fit any day because we as military people spend majority of our day in the uniform.

A change is need but not in the current service dress uniform, not yet. We should correct the mistakes with the PT gear and the ABU before we journey out to make changes to other uniforms that do not require immediate change. The AF personnel is not known for its physical standards. We have some people that are out of shape and would be an embarrassment to the AF if they wore a uniform with a belt to further enhance their roundness (Officer & Enlisted). I would like a uniform that would make us look like a US military rather some military clowns. The uniforms are part of our history but the people and the progress we make in aviation is our true history. The uniform doesn’t make the military the people do. If our leaders took real pride in their jobs and stop kissing up or playing favorites then we would have a proud heritage like the Army, Navy, and the Marines.

We are the youngest military branch and we act like spoiled brats. We should act like the proud men and women that we are. A change in the right direct is always good but a change in the wrong direction is wrong and fatal.

Posted by: Chris_my 2 cents at September 26, 2008 05:25 AM

Who dreams up this sillyness? Desolve the Uniform Board. Let the members focus on their people and primary jobs. It's been said a million times "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Have an active duty AF daughter, son in law and nephew. Allow them and their fellow airman to focus on their jobs not cluttering their closets. Uniform changes over the past 4 years has been a wast of resources. Keep it simple, distinctive and most importantly functional. Don't get me wrong, The Air-Force is the "bomb"! But seriously, don't distract those currently serving with unnecessary change. Focus the effort and dollars on the right needed tools!

Posted by: Tim at September 26, 2008 04:47 AM

The Air Force is trying to find itself lets go back to the Arnold Days and bring back the Cacky dress uniform i thought i looked sharp back in the Air Corps day and hell we are trying to get back to our Haritage thats back to the Corps days.

Posted by: cody covert at September 26, 2008 04:45 AM

When I was in we had to wear plain green jungle fats and white underwear. No camo. In SEA. Not much of a combat outfit. Stateside, we still wore starched green pickle suits everywhere. The 1505's were just being phased out. Heck, if you wanted stylish military fashion--the Hair Force wasn't the place...

Posted by: Larry at September 26, 2008 12:56 AM

If this uniform get passed out to the troops, I'll be retiring.

Posted by: TRANES at September 26, 2008 12:47 AM

I agree with G re Naval Aviation Working Greens, or even WW2 Army Air Corps/Force style and colour.

Posted by: Bill at September 26, 2008 12:20 AM

I have to chime in with the bajillion (Sp?) negative reactions to this proposed "NEW" uniform. My first reaction was complete contempt for the look. I thought we defeated the Nazis WWII? Why are we trying to immitate them now?! Dissolve the uniform board and focus on what really matters...taking care of the troops. I haven't heard anyone saying moral is down because of the current uniforms!!! If it isn't broken don't fix it!!!

Glad to have served...my heart and prayers to those serving now!!!

Posted by: Marc, MSgt (Ret) at September 26, 2008 12:13 AM

I still like the Army Air Force "Pinks". Heck, lets bring them back for officers and enlisted.
They were a really cool uniform then. With everything else being brought up. Lets bring these up now. Who knows, with some modification, we might have something going. This can be no worse than what is being suggested now.

Posted by: Bob at September 25, 2008 11:56 PM

Just follow the money. Hundreds of millions. Don't even doubt that money does not talk.

This shows what the up-or-out promotion policy produces--fraternity flunkies with lots of rank and short on wisdom and integrity. When will the AF stop acting like the PTA? Shameful. What a ridiculous uniform. When they figure out that it is the person in side of the uniform that they need to fix, they will half way there. Careerists are fascinated with "fun" things. Case in point.

Posted by: AFCalvin at September 25, 2008 11:35 PM

As a retired Chief, I'm embarrassed that we have people coming up with such a rediculous uniform idea. The people that would even consider this uniform are way, way out there. As a tax payer I'm appaled that we've paid for even the demo versions of this. Leave the uniform alone. I'd say get rid of the flight cap too, but I'm afraid of what someone might come up with.

Posted by: Chief OX at September 25, 2008 11:16 PM

I retired in 1977 after 20 years active service. I remember the many uniform changes during my career. I spent two tours as a Military Training Instructor and took pride in the wearing of our uniforms. Change is inevitable, but stick to basics, keep it military, but functional and yet distinctive. There is no need to go retro or copy any other military uniform. I am so glad I am retired. I feel for the airmen on active duty having to put up with these changes and expense. We catch enough flack from the Army, Marine Corps and even the Navy without having to endure anymore uniform changes. Change for change sake does not make any sense. Save some money, get functional and yet distinctive and stick with it.

Posted by: Horace R. Tumey at September 25, 2008 10:40 PM

It's still a bus driver's uniform. BTW -- really enjoy retired O-5's and O-6's working for a retired SMSgt.

Posted by: Ben at September 25, 2008 10:17 PM

Com-on Folks,

Leadership,

In an era where the United States is falling apart, were concerned about what uniform works best. It's truly time to get back to the basics. How about we start being more concerned about the people than what fashion statement were making.

I mean, I'm only an retired enlisted SMSgt but I believe in common sense and attempt to focus on real issues.

The troops deserve better.

Posted by: Michael Montgomery at September 25, 2008 09:49 PM

I enlisted in the USAF in 68 and althought my daily uniform was always fatigues I got to agree with bringing the 1505 class 2 uniform back. I was "way cool" and seperated us from the other branches. Nobody had a more sharp "khaki" uniform than the Air Force wore. As for the new Mitchell dress blues blouse I hope the statement saying the decision is postponed to sometime next year means it will die a quiet death and be forgotten about, FOREVER! Leave such uniform styles with the Corp where it belongs I say. They wore it first anyway so it belongs to them.

Posted by: Dave Butler at September 25, 2008 09:44 PM

Retired in 1998. My Dad retired in 1970. Go back to the 1505's or the 1960's to 1980's blue blouse and badges. You can't make a tradition overnight, you build it over time. Hated everything McPeak did. Appears a bunch of his cronies are running the show now. Feel sorry for our Airman today.

Posted by: Don at September 25, 2008 09:43 PM

This uniform is long time overdue......with the exception of the belt. It makes it look like a raincoat. Remove the belt and you have a winner!

Posted by: T-bird at September 25, 2008 09:41 PM

Being one that wore two different dress uniforms in my career, I believe that the AF needs to pursue the Hap Arnold design. I love the look! It actually looks like a military uniform unlike the bus driver and airline pilot dress uniforms I wore.

The AF needs to go a step further and get rid of the flight cap. It's ugly and does not serve any purpose except to say that they have a hat for their blues. It does not have a bill so it does not keep the sun out of the wearer's eyes. Let's get past tradition on this one and come into the 21st century where business people do not wear hats!

Posted by: Ken at September 25, 2008 09:26 PM

If i wanted to look like a circus clown i'd join the circus. I'm going on a tax strike im not
getting my taxes deducted so the government can
spend money on this circus fashion!

Posted by: JT Sack at September 25, 2008 09:18 PM

If i wanted to look like a circus clown i'd join the circus. I'm going on a tax strike im not
getting my taxes deducted so the government can
spend money on this circus fashion!

Posted by: JT Sack at September 25, 2008 09:17 PM

The new uniform is the most unsightly uniform. I served from 1955 to 1979 and liked the unform.

Posted by: bw2alls at September 25, 2008 09:17 PM

Uniforms - AF Leadership PLEASE WAKE UP!!!! Funding is limited, manpower is limited, morale is DOWN, and the last thing the AF should be focusing on are new uniforms. Redirect the energy toward the MISSION and the personnel. More importantly help to regain our credibility before the American people lose more respect for the AF. Joined the AF in 1989 with much pride and motivation...it is becoming difficult to continue maintaining a positive outlook when I see the AF going down the wrong road.

Slogans..."AIM High". Another misallocation of funds. The money spent on changing a phrase that the American people have grown to know and Airmen have been proud of is unnecessary. More importantly, money was spent to pay Marketing companies to develop a new concept. Also money was spent to change letterhead to reflect the new slogan. Come on AF Leadership. Would you manage your OWN company like this...if so I am sure you would be in the unemployment line.

Lack of Leadership. AF is being managed like Capitol Hill - Good Old Boy Concept. Some, not all, leadership positions are being based on popularity and not always on leadership/management skills. Doing the "RIGHT THING" is not always the right thing. Speaking the truth, no matter how tactful, can result in individuals being looked upon unfavorably.

Stand up and be LEADERS that subordinates can look up to because this is the time the AF needs to make a POSITIVE CHANGE to redirect our Service in the RIGHT direction. General Schwartz has been levied a tough job...recommend cleaning house with folks who are not doing right by the AF. We still have personnel in the AF who are willing to support leaders who are willing to do the right thing for the AF. Will the TRUE leaders PLEASE step up and join the fight. Lead by "Example".

Lack of Discipline. The lack of discipline displayed by some Officers/NCO's is embarrasing. Many times true leaders are reluctant to discipline personnel when needed because the leaders are being reprimanded for discipling personnel.

Bottomline...Although I am frustrated with MY AF, I still LOVE MY AF. Plan is to stay in the Service, continue to do the RIGHT THING and support others who are love the AF and WANT and WILL do the right thing. We owe this to all the other Airmen who have come before us and those who will follow us in the fight.

FYI. Other Services speak negative of the AF but many of them would be honored to wear the blue suit regardless of the current challenges we face.

Posted by: FRUSTRATED...BUT HOPEFUL at September 25, 2008 09:13 PM

Boy! That is the most Beatle Bailey looking crap I have EVER seen. Can we just "stay" with something without trying to copy the other services for once in our era. We are the "Air Force," not a bunch of Army/Navy/Marine wannabees. The McPeak uniform that many of you dog is the most professional uniform, we have had and fits well with the Air Force. I retired after 20 years in that uniform in 2006. I am so glad I was honored to wear it. I hope we "keep" running out of money to change it and spend it on keeping our troops taking care of.

Posted by: Shay at September 25, 2008 09:02 PM

Honestly, we needed a change in our service dress. The Marines by far have the nicest uniform and I truly believe this new uniform is a fresh breath of air versus our current one. I know most people are afraid or tired of change but its been desperately needed. We are pressing into 2009. Embrace the change and strive to look great in your uniform. We should all be proud and looking sharp. "FIT TO LEAD" The only thing that I feel needs to change is the belt. It needs to be a different color. At least with this prototype you can wear your function badges and ribbons without the collar covering them!

Posted by: joe at September 25, 2008 08:25 PM

You want a good serviceable uniform? Let some Airman design it and get it out of the hands of the uniform challenged folks that dreamed up the 19 teens look. Better yet,save the money being foolishly spent on changing uniforms (once again) and increasing the pay of our over worked lower enlisted. Shame on the Air Farse Management club.

Posted by: Steve at September 25, 2008 08:19 PM

Has ANYONE in the USAF General Officer Ranks remembered that we are fighting a WAR? WHAT are you Generals doing in your 'spare-time'?!
Time wasted is Lives Lost!
The USAF 'Leadership' is a JOKE and result of years of political-correct promotions over competencel.
Here is the result!

Posted by: MajorTargetLC at September 25, 2008 08:13 PM

Here's what you do... Whoever designed this monstrosity can give it a try in Texas during the months of July - August and if you STILL think this is a good idea I'll be surprised. I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to buy all these new uniforms. Some things just don't need to be changed!!

Posted by: Marvin Goodman at September 25, 2008 08:00 PM

The AF needs a traditional uniform -- the current one is a McPeak abortion--another of his abberations in which the rest of the AF had to clean up after him. Who wants to look like a US Airways pilot? The AF is a MILITARY organization, not a civilian commercial airline. The Marine uniform is one of the sharpest MILITARY uniforms. If the Hap Arnold uniform is modified-- it could be a very distinctive uniform that could be proudly worn.

Posted by: Stephenc Chock at September 25, 2008 07:42 PM

Wouldn't it be great if a General or someone in charge made a command decision to take a hint from the Marines.... "LESS IS MORE"... Less changes & more emphasis earning the respect due to wearing it. How many people do you see complains about the Marine Blues? My advice to AF-DOD & future uniform boards: Start a new tradition, keep is Simple, keep it Smart/Fit, and keep those around you from changing it every year!!

Posted by: Tim Fenwick at September 25, 2008 07:27 PM

Those are the stupidest uniforms I've ever seen. I'm so glad I'm retired.

Posted by: MxMan at September 25, 2008 07:21 PM

The coat with a choker collar looks almost the same Winter Blouse that the New York PD wore from turn of the century to the 1970's. That collar style is most uncomfortable. I know, as I wore one for 20 years. The whole coat is reminiscent of the Salvation Army Uniforms of the earlier era also. The designer must be on some ego trip to think that this abortion is progressive and stylish. The proposed coat is suitable only for standing in front of department stores at Christmas, ringing a bell in front of a donation kettle! Get smart Air Force!!

Posted by: Robert at September 25, 2008 07:12 PM

FAKE WINGS now adorn the "flight" suits of groundpounder officers and airmen in the AF Space Command! The have velcro-on name tags with their names and new fake wings that look much like real pilot wings until you get up close (about one foot) and check them out. Moreover, they eventually become fake senior nonpilot wings and command nonpilot wings, signifying that these nonpilots have not flown for nine and fourteen years. I suppose it makes them feel good (and safe on the ground), but it is insulting to those of us who actually earned real wings as we slipped the surly bonds of earth and risked our lives in the skies. It is much like allowing the sanitation squadron to wear badges with winged garbage trucks and six medals for cleanliness, or like giving kindergarten kids awards for showing up for recess without wetting their pants.

Jonahmel

Posted by: Mel at September 25, 2008 07:10 PM

I like the service coat that Christoper Walken wore in Pulp Fiction. It looked similar to the ones now, but with the older style pockets (breast pockets only) and no belt.

Posted by: A1C at September 25, 2008 06:53 PM

This uniform is a joke. The service dress jacket that is presently being used is adequate, but that was a waste of money also. The service dress uniform I was issued in 1984 was perfect. Besides, a uniform does not make an aircraft fly, airmen, fuel, parts in short beans & bullets for the troops before a stupid looking comical jacket.

Posted by: MSgt. (Ret.) R.C. Moore, Sr. at September 25, 2008 06:47 PM

That would be a great idea...why don't we bring back the raciest that wore them as well, great job--Dumb Ass--

Posted by: JOE at September 25, 2008 06:43 PM

Have lay off the negativity about the new uniforms. Someone will get a star for pushing it through. Just like all other new stuff that comes down the pike. As my first supervisor told me, if you don't like it just wait a few years, it will come full circle. Keep those Hapless stars coming.

Posted by: pb at September 25, 2008 06:36 PM

I'm sorry, but I like the present Blues. These blues would not look good on a lot of the airmen/women

Posted by: Tricia at September 25, 2008 06:25 PM

I retired last year after 21 years in the USAF. I was okay with the change from fatigues to BDU's and I was okay to the change to the current service dress. I was not looking forward to the new ABU's and thankfully retired before I had to wear them. But this new service uniform is by far the worst I have seen. What a joke! A belt is supposed to be used to hold up your pants-not to show how "robust" a senior NCO has become over the years. What is the USAF thinking?

Posted by: Darrell at September 25, 2008 06:22 PM

It looks like its from a made up kidish show. I think it should have a new look but not that kind

Posted by: justin at September 25, 2008 06:04 PM

Somebody mentioned that we would be the laughing stock of the services, too late we already are and they're still laughing. We can't seem to find our identity, that's why we have and Airmen's creed. By the way, we shouldn't call one of our ranks Airmen because you know what; when you call Hey Airmen! the only person who is going to turn around is the person with that rank. Notice that all of the other services don't use terms that people call them as a rank, ie: Soldier, Sailor, or Marine. Maybe they are smarter then us or at least have more common sense. I heard that the more Educated some peole get the less common sense they have. UMM, might be true
Getting back to the new uniform it looks like a POS. However, the person who stated that we should bring back the 1505s has hit on an ideal. Make a uniform again with more then one color but still stick to the Air Force's heritage not the Army.
For the time being, can we get back to the real world and spend our dollars on fixing jets and flying missions, and for crap sake DUMP ALL OF THE ANCILLERARY TRAINING SO WE CAN ACTUALLY TRAIN OUR PEOPLE TO DO THE JOBS THEY WERE HIRED OR EMLISTED TO DO. Now wonder our planes are looking like crap and our airmen our poorly trained. They spend too much time in the classroom or behind a computer then actually doing their fricking job. That's why our safety reports have gotten worse and so have our aircraft mishaps. Please, somebody wake-up at the wheel and get back to basics, the computer doesn't fix everything and it sure doesn't make every task easier. I think the Chief of staff should have to accomplish all new ancillerary trainig requirements before they are fielded. This stuff needs to be funneled. So let him feel our pain...
The war is not the reason why people are leaving the Air Force, It's micro manageing regulations that are being forced down their throats, just like the uniform changes. Love the job hate the BS. How do we function any more???

Posted by: JCG at September 25, 2008 06:03 PM

Somebody mentioned that we would be the laughing stock of the services, too late we already are and they're still laughing. We can't seem to find our identity, that's why we have and Airmen's creed. By the way, we shouldn't call one of our ranks Airmen because you know what; when you call Hey Airmen! the only person who is going to turn around is the person with that rank. Notice that all of the other services don't use terms that people call them as a rank, ie: Soldier, Sailor, or Marine. Maybe they are smarter then us or at least have more common sense. I heard that the more Educated some peole get the less common sense they have. UMM, might be true
Getting back to the new uniform it looks like a POS. However, the person who stated that we should bring back the 1505s has hit on an ideal. Make a uniform again with more then one color but still stick to the Air Force's heritage not the Army.
For the time being, can we get back to the real world and spend our dollars on fixing jets and flying missions, and for crap sake DUMP ALL OF THE ANCILLERARY TRAINING SO WE CAN ACTUALLY TRAIN OUR PEOPLE TO DO THE JOBS THEY WERE HIRED OR EMLISTED TO DO. Now wonder our planes are looking like crap and our airmen our poorly trained. They spend too much time in the classroom or behind a computer then actually doing their fricking job. That's why our safety reports have gotten worse and so have our aircraft mishaps. Please, somebody wake-up at the wheel and get back to basics, the computer doesn't fix everything and it sure doesn't make every task easier. I think the Chief of staff should have to accomplish all new ancillerary trainig requirements before they are fielded. This stuff needs to be funneled. So let him feel our pain...
The war is not the reason why people are leaving the Air Force, It's micro manageing regulations that are being forced down their throats, just like the uniform changes. Love the job hate the BS. How do we function any more???

Posted by: Joel at September 25, 2008 05:59 PM

Just make it look like Starfleet and call it a day!

Posted by: jr at September 25, 2008 05:38 PM

The USAF uniform does not need change. What we need is new leadership, new tankers, new fighters, new bombers, etc.

Posted by: Rene at September 25, 2008 05:27 PM

Who the heck designed the uniform?? It doesn't look RETRO at all. It looks dated, uncomfortableand unflatering. A dress uniform should represent a military tradition, but at the same time be wearable. An airman should feel able to work in it and still look sharp.
A little tip for the AF: hire people that KNOW about fashion design and get some advise!!! People who earn their living making clothes know a thing or two about mixing the modern with old and coming out with wearable pieces that can become timeless and allow the airmen to look sharp and feel proud of their uniform.

Posted by: Yashira Quiles at September 25, 2008 05:27 PM

WOW! This AF uni stuff really generates some buzz, eh!?!? I think we are fairly unanimous in the idea that chasing better uniforms is a collosal waste of time.

I agree with many here including Doc Boink's lengthy diatribe. Did I look like a Bus Driver back in the 80's...yeah, maybe; but, I didn't look like charter pilot like those horrid McPeak American Airlines Class A's nor did I look like some kind of action movie clown (World Police) in the current blue tiger stripes. The USAF does not need unique unis as part of our 5-year plan to have esprit d'corps. You could have paid the USMC a royalty & simply removed the eagle, globe & anchor from their ACU pattern...I would have worn it!!! You could simply dye an Army dress uniform blue, I would have worn it...but with maybe a few less badges, lanyards and other dressy mess (***I will refrain from discussing our pathological love affair with friggin award ribbons, God help us we must have fragile egos***).

I'd rather have the funding to keep our airframes in the air! I'd rather have Pentagon yo-yos STOP snafuing tanker contracts! I'd rather ensure our pilot's get enough stick-time! I'd rather have our Airman be truly prepared for the coming conflicts!

Too many prima donnas wanting to leave their lasting mark on the force!!! Pissing away the citizens tax dollars while the fleet gets older & older, maintenance crews have to get more & more imaginative, pilots put their lives and those of their cargo (service members & precious war materials) on the line...and some hump in DC wants us to have nostalgic uniforms. These clowns can go get a job with the BRAVO TV network and work on clothing lines with the guys from Queer Eye, and leave the Force to those who really care about it.

SOAP BOX put away...for now.

Posted by: HAZMATMAN at September 25, 2008 05:26 PM

For the love of everything good. I've been out as long as I was in (8 years) and in the time I was in they changed the uniform at least four times (give or take) and since I've been out maybe even more. Don't they have enough issues to worry about?? Leave the uniform alone and focus on more important issues. Its expensive and a hassle to have to replace blues and BDU's everytime someone decides that we need to change something that doesn't need fixing in the first place.... Can we please find a tradition and stick to it???

Posted by: Tanya Self at September 25, 2008 04:48 PM

I’d like to make a few comments on the matter of Air Force uniforms, as I have been following the developments attendant to the selection of new Class A uniforms for US Air Force personnel with great interest.

My active US Air Force service period took place in the mid 1960s, a time when the original 1950s style 4-button, 4 pocket Air Force Class-A blouse was still being worn. That blouse was selected as the desired style for use in replacing the old OD colored USAAF style blouse, when the Air Force first received recognition as an independent Armed Service under the aegis of the National Defense Act of 1947.

At no time while serving (1966-69) did I EVER hear any of my fellow airmen complain about being mistaken for bus drivers, despite the existence of an apparent ‘urban legend’ to that effect that remains with us to this day. As airmen, we were all quite satisfied with the cut and style of that unbelted, 4 patch pocket blouse and wore it with pride during those ‘Cold War’ years. We well understood that the force was only as good as the men in it and no amount of catchy little visual effects (fancy uniforms, et al) could belie that fact. I still have my old uniform today and I regard it with respect as perfectly emblematic of the emerging US Air Force airpower image of the 50s and 60s that played such an important part during that era.

When General McPeak suddenly decided to revise that original blouse style in 1991, I, along with many of my former service colleagues, were absolutely stupefied by what struck us as the bizarre and spectacularly ‘wrong-headed’ redesign of the old Class A blouse to achieve what McPeak described as a ‘cleaner appearance’. Given McPeak’s horsepower as CoS and the ponderous momentum behind his determination for change in uniform style, most of us simply shrugged, despite our profound collective misgivings, and privately regarded McPeak as suffering from some sort of generalized bureaucratic breakdown (while simultaneously grudgingly accepting his seemingly capricious act as inevitable).

Having marked that 1991 event as an isolated fluke of time and circumstance, I was again appalled to learn that the Air Force is once more suffering from an apparent identity crisis: as evidenced by the latest campaign to change the Class A uniform. As before, I completely fail to comprehend why the Air Force simply will not stop messing around with the uniform!

However, since it seems HQ is bound and determined to make changes again, I’d like to offer my two-cents worth in the hope that someone at the top will finally get a grip on reality. While it is my basic opinion that periodic USAF Class-A uniform updating efforts are not only misguided, but totally unnecessary, here are a few thoughts on the current uniform redesign concerns, since once again Pandora’s box appears to have been regettably reopened.

I feel that both the ‘heritage’ uniform prototypes being evaluated are more than a bit ‘off the wall’. To begin with, the ‘Billy Mitchell’ design is clearly unacceptable for the extremely uncomfortable and archaic collar design it reflects; archaic ‘stand-up collars’ may have a cozy nostalgia associated with them, but anyone who has had to wear uniform collars of that type for even the briefest period of time will readily attest to their high level of uncomfortable awkwardness. Ask the US Marines; they’ll readily affirm that fact, after suffering their own such design for a century or more.

Second, the ‘Hap Arnold’ style blouse, with its wide lapels, 3-button style, and belted waist, is also unsuitable. Wide lapels are a styling affectation of the 40s and should remain as such; they are a curious relic of former times that are somewhat awkward in appearance and a bit too dated to warrant resurrection. The cinch-waist, belted styling was perfectly well suited to US Army Air Service uniforms of the 30s that frequently incorporated riding style jodhpurs and calf-boots, but as a styling feature of the modern Class A uniform they are just as dated and awkward as the wide lapels of the ‘Hap Arnold’ prototype. In short, while a nice try (to revive that strong sense of ‘Air Corps’ esprit d’corps that many still look back on with misplaced nostalgia), the Hap Arnold prototype is effectively just as unsuited and inadequate for force adoption as the alternate Billy Mitchell proposal. (I don’t have to remind you, I am sure, that the relaxed roll-down collar of the former ‘Mitchell’ blouse was originally just the traditional stand-up collar unbuttoned and folded over, since you are all presumably well versed in the sartorial evolution of men’s clothes styling.)

The original US Air Force blue Class A blouse was loosely adapted (in 1947) from the RAF’s traditional uniform design, as we all know, merely omitting the latter’s belt, keeping the single-breasted moderate lapel, and adding cloth epaulettes for application of US style rank insignia. It was a wise and well suited (no pun intended) choice, since the uniform ‘worked’ extremely well in all the important parameters of consideration: appearance, comfort, and distinctiveness. The original shade of US Air Force blue may have been just a shade too light (a slightly darker shade of blue might have been a better choice, but that’s splitting hairs), but the original USAF blouse could be worn for many hours and still remain just as comfortable and functional as it was when first put on in the morning.

In my opinion, what is needed most is to toss out those outlandish ‘Hap Arnold’ and ‘Billy Mitchell’ heritage proposals currently being evaluated and return to the original 1950s Class A uniform blouse, complete with those excellent US Air Force emblem emblazoned buttons it started out with (get RID of that wretched winged-star design now in use!). Keep the original cloth flap epaulettes, return to the original 4 patch pockets design, keep the waist unbelted, and retain the single-breasted ‘moderate’ lapel. In short, what would be best for everyone (airmen, officers, and the traditions of the service) would be a return to a slightly updated variant of the original US Air Force blue Class-A blouse of the 50s and 60s!

Once that has been done, it would be well advised to place a stringent moratorium on any further hair-brained schemes by bored higher headquarters staff who are suffering ‘designer moments’ in those lulls between wars!

I always look to the British RAF with great admiration, for many reasons. One reason among those them is the fact that they’ve managed to restrain any urges they might have had to redesign their very functional, traditional, and comfortable Class-A uniform, and have successfully left unchanged a design that has served them extremely well for almost 90 years! Aside from the fact that there’s no legitimate need to do so, they have had the good sense to refrain from falling victim to that affliction of adolescent minded American culture: I reference here the ‘new and improved’ mania that our society has inherited from commercial advertising’s relentless quest to market material consumer ‘things’ to people who really would do quite well enough without them! ‘New and improved’ really serves very little real purpose other than to sell familiar old things to the same people in a new package, when examined critically and objectively, since simple appearance is not and never has been a worthy substitute for substance.

In essence, I suppose you could distill all of my comments down to this single observation: “Return to the past (but not that FAR in the past)”. If you’ve studied Buddhist or Asian philosophy in the past, you are already vaguely familiar with the Buddhist ‘360 degree journey of enlightenment’. It presupposes that you end your journey right back at the starting point, with the journey being necessary in order to gain perspective on where you have been all along. It may sound odd to the narrowly aware, but that is exactly what I allude to here. Return to the ‘beginning’….not of the Army Air Force of the late 30s and early 40s, but to the beginning of the modern US Air Force of 1947 as an independent and equal military service. Readopt the original US Air Force blue Class-A uniform (with slight modific