I believe that the Air Force bashes the Marines too much. But when an Airman is asked about he Air Force, more than a few say "I wanted to join the Marines". When I asked a few Airmen about how they like the Air Force, they replied that its too political and its really hard to get promoted, they wished they joined the Marines. They wanted to be looked at with more respect with thier uniforms on out in public, like they went to Iraq and did something (combat related). Also to let "Jim" know. I am a Marine and have been one for 11+ years. I have an Associates in Forensic Anthropology and a Bachelors Degree in Criminal Justice (with honors 3.89 GPA). Hmmm.....not a "dumb jarhead". But if you look at the new proposed uniform. It looks like the Marine Corps dress blues. Our high collar was from a tradition dating way back when we needed to protect our necks from swords. This was made of leather. Hence the name "leatherneck". We have a proud tradition from 1775 to the present day. We are known as America's 911 force. If the Air Force lined up all of its aircraft with the Navy. The navy has more aircraft. The only thing the Air Force has given the war is moving boxes from one base to another.I have been deployed four times in combat. I also went to a joint service school where a majority of the Airmen there only played "World of the Warcraft". Stick to that Airmen, let the Marines take care of the war. Air Force has some knowledgeable people, but when the shit hits the fan, let the Marines do thier jobs. If not the Air Force would get run over in ground combat. Hey, basically put, the Army and the Airforce need to get thier priorities strait, they need equipment and manpower more than they need a stupid uniform.

Posted by: EddieGUSMC at July 2, 2009 06:38 PM

I am trying to locate fellow Veterans that was assigned to the Third Field Hospital, from Nov. 1967, until May 1969, if you are out there, please contact me, Sherman Carliles, shermancarliles@comcast.net. I am looking fordward to hearing from all of you.

Posted by: Sherman Carliles at June 12, 2009 03:12 PM

I am trying to locate fellow Veterans that was assigned to the Third Field Hospital, from Nov. 1967, until May 1969, if you are out there, please contact me, Sherman Carliles, shermancarliles@comcast.net. I am looking fordward to hearing from all of you.

Posted by: Sherman Carliles at June 12, 2009 03:11 PM

So what would you rather. Military or none. Sure government spending is out of control. No doubt.. But I'd much rather have them there than not. There is allot of paranoia going on about the black ops. That they are here to kill us, Americans. Youtube it and you can find one conspiracy freak after another. Sorry to say it but fire power is the only way to keep the peace. I live near an AFB and I sleep VERY well knowing there's enough fire power in that ONE place to wipe out a small nation. There's allot of people who are down on the military. WHY?? They work for us. If you want to angry with some one try looking up the tree towards the top. Military personnel DO NOT wage wars. Leaders of nations wage wars.. I'd love to see these guys thrown into a cage match situation and let them figure it out rather than watch our soldiers killed one after another. War is young men dying and old men getting rich over it. That has not changed from the stone age. Always over religion, land or some thing else STUPID! IF you've ever watched Dances with wolves Dunbar says this after fighting off an attack from a rival tribe. "I've never been in a war like this one, there was no dark politacal agenda, it was not about land or riches, it was about protecting children and loved ones just a few feet away, it was about protecting the food stores that would see us through the winter".. These days wars are waged over "dark political agendas".
I am 100% behind out troops. I don't agree with the wars, but our troops? I love them all. Which brings to a sore spot to say little. The wife of a dead congressmen gets ONE MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR UNTIL SHE DIES!.. WTF??! Yet our own vets are more often than not rejected and treated poorly when they return home. They live on the streets begging!.. These men who fought for this country are treated like dirt... Shame on allot of you. I read you posts.. SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU!... These vets should be treated with velvet gloves. They should be housed, fed and taken VERY excellent care of. The families of the fallen get what? A free funeral, a thanks, and a flag? While some old broad that was married to a DEAD US congressmen get ONE MILLION A YEAR until she dies!? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE?! We send money over seas while AMERICANS go hungry and live on the streets. A PRISON INMATE gets more money than a school teacher! Not only that but out of a teachers pittance of a paycheck they are expected to BUY their own teaching materials?.. Allot needs to change in this country. Prisons are over flowing, children are getting passed along like some kind of disposable commodity and many graduate UNABLE to fill out a W2? A prison inmate can go to college! Get a Ph.D if they want one. But our own children are NOT getting a proper education?.. I could go on for DAYS about whats wrong. We need SERIOUS changes if we are to survive as a country and we need them now!

Posted by: Dusty at June 8, 2009 05:38 PM

Dad was a Korean war AF vet - His tailored uniform looked good then and now. Don't change what works. PS the new army BDUs look stupid.

Posted by: Californio at June 2, 2009 11:16 PM

You mean "wearing", a little odd for someone so concerned on looking smart.

Posted by: j jones at May 7, 2009 04:36 PM

I'm in JROTC and I don't want to join waering that uniform. I'd rather wear the old four button service coat- That one makes everyone look smart(even the ones who aren't).

Posted by: Al at February 28, 2009 01:50 PM

What made the Army Air Corps uniform look so great was the dark green jacket, khaki pants, and spit shine brown low-quarters.

This version is comical by comparison. Hap Arnold would surely snort in disgust at the ridiculous "design" sense of current Air Force leaders (I use the term loosely).

You wouldn't stick an ICBM missile officer in an F-16 and expect them to get bombs on target would you? So why allow generals with too much time on their hands to play Barbie dress up and design?

We all know that boredom can lead to some ridiculous mistakes. Clearly our leaders are so bored and without tasks - now they're creating things to justify their existence. Job security? I guess.

Retirement is knowing I'll never have to walk into Wal-Mart and get asked if I can tell someone the price on the item in their hands.

Posted by: Cathleen at February 27, 2009 05:17 PM

It is sad to see the overall negativity and bitterness of Air Force and other military personnel. It's funny to read postings by Marines because I didn't even know they knew how to read much less write a cognitive sentence.
The first question is why should anyone care about dress blues when there are other things such as tankers, a successful battle dress uniform or uniforms (hey the Marines got something right- still wouldn't be one), maintaining the overall safety of our ground personnel by giving them the right tools for the job, and oh yea tankers?
Tankers, need I say more? I believe all the services should adopt the Marines battle uniforms or switch to multicam. They work, simple as that. No real need to invest money when one service found what works (amazing what they can do with 4% of the DOD budget). Wasn't this a team effort at one time?
But dress uniforms? The Air Force does have the worst one. Bus driver, bell hop, you name it and the current uniform looks it. It should be changed to something more military. Why not have a professional tailor make something? When the Marines wanted their uniform that's what they did. You keep seeing generals putting in way too much input on what it should look like and even go as far as coming up with sketches. Let the guy do his job and maybe they would get something worth wearing. The Air Force has two options: Look like the Army from which they came or look like the Navy/Marines. Anything else would look "unmilitary."
Finally, I am a firm believer in, "if you're going to do something, you sure as hell do it right."� The uniform change is going to happen one day in the next 10 years. The current uniform is just too ugly for it not to. And what the hell is up with the v-neck? That takes a day to change. Come on Air Force, you have the world's best shit and you can't dress yourself.

Posted by: Jim at January 23, 2009 03:55 PM

It is sad to see the overall negativity and bitterness of Air Force and other military personnel. It’s funny to read postings by Marines because I didn’t even know they knew how to read much less write a cognitive sentence.
The first question is why should anyone care about dress blues when there are other things such as tankers, a successful battle dress uniform or uniforms (hey the Marines got something right- still wouldn’t be one), maintaining the overall safety of our ground personnel by giving them the right tools for the job, and oh yea tankers?
Tankers, need I say more? I believe all the services should adopt the Marines battle uniforms or switch to multicam. They work, simple as that. No real need to invest money when one service found what works (amazing what they can do with 4% of the DOD budget). Wasn’t this a team effort at one time?
But dress uniforms? The Air Force does have the worst one. Bus driver, bell hop, you name it and the current uniform looks it. It should be changed to something more military. Why not have a professional tailor make something? When the Marines wanted their uniform that’s what they did. You keep seeing generals putting in way too much input on what it should look like and even go as far as coming up with sketches. Let the guy do his job and maybe they would get something worth wearing. The Air Force has two options: Look like the Army from which they came or look like the Navy/Marines. Anything else would look “unmilitary.�
Finally, I am a firm believer in, “if you’re going to do something, you sure as hell do it right.� The uniform change is going to happen one day in the next 10 years. The current uniform is just too ugly for it not to. And what the hell is up with the v-neck? That takes a day to change. Come on Air Force, you have the world’s best shit and you can’t dress yourself.

Posted by: Jim at January 23, 2009 03:51 PM

I was an Army Air Corps Pilot during WW2 and was vwery proud wearing the Winter dress uniform of Blouse and pinks

Posted by: Richard Cooke at December 14, 2008 08:58 PM

Why not just go with Star Trek uniforms, instead of the Empire from Star Wars!! They could wear them along with the flying cars and robots on the flight line. LOL. Like many have said I retired last year and just in time!!! Happy Veterans Day!!

Posted by: Nick at November 11, 2008 10:06 PM

I went through AFROTC and did an active duty tour in the Air Force before defecting to the Army reserve components and am now a retired field grader.

I'm not going to bash either this misidentified Billy Mitchell Uniform or the actual Hap Arnold Uniform any further than it's already been bashed, although I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. The uniform is only a symptom of the identity crisis the Air Force has had its entire existence as a separate service, something I realized even as a cadet and a lieutenant in the Air Force.

The Air Force was as autonomous as it needed to be back in 1944 when it wiped out the German Luftwaffe over its own turf and was about to do the same to the Japanese naval air arm and army air force. They should have applied the rule of "If it ain't broke, don't f*** with it!" back then. Who was the head of the Air Force at the time? Hap Arnold.

By designing a dress uniform in the late 1940s that tried to be as different from the Army's as practical, the AF uniform board made the AF uniform as unmilitary as possible: pre-tarnished buttons and badges, no unit insignia on the dress uniforms, the "bus driver" look. It's a chicken and egg issue, but the Air Force largely divested itself from its Army heritage AND its identity as a fighting force starting in 1947, and that has haunted that service for the last 61 years. The Air Force in 1947 was like a rebellious teenager who left home and turned his back on his family as soon as he turned 18. It still is.

The various uniform changes from Ralph Kramden to McPeak Airlines and now to the the Hap and Billy Show are a symptom of this identity crisis. The uniform issue and identity crisis are also symptoms of larger problem in cosmetic "fixes" with no solution to the substance of the issues. As several other people on this thread have already said, what is the AF doing wasting time and money on dress uniforms in the middle of a war with Congress screaming for budget cuts?

I strongly recommend everyone read the book SILENT KNIGHTS by Dr. Alan Diehl, who was the Air Force's senior safety scientist and who articulates the problem nicely.

I'm not necessarily advocating that the AF merge back with the Army or even a "single service" concept like the Canadian military. And I'll be the first to admit the Army isn't perfect. Just getting in my 2 cents' worth as an outsider who used to be on the inside.

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Posted by: angel at October 21, 2008 05:25 AM

MSgt Jones AD USAF

This uniform shows an shows a cronic lack of focus for what's important. The people working uniform issues for the United States Air Force should be fired. The PT gear is a joke and the above belted suit makes me weep in despair. I'd like to see a uniform that I can be proud to wear and improves retention. It's already tough enough to keep the good folks and get them to re-enlist.

Please don't make my job harder than nessessary.

Posted by: Brian at October 17, 2008 12:58 PM

It looks like a combination of a unisex Mao suit and a 1930s era army uniform with a belt. Congratulations. Now all that is needed is breast pads for the male suit and the feminists and femi-male officers of today's U.S.A.F. will be well on the way to achieving their obvious goal - complete eradication of the "bad" gender. Manditory gonad extraction for males next?

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Posted by: angel at October 16, 2008 04:27 AM

I went in the AF in '69. The dress blues were great looking then, I still have mine after all these years, (still fit in them too) and really can't understand a need for any change. We all looked sharp then. Why the need to change what isn't broken?

Posted by: Mark Allan at October 12, 2008 01:44 AM

I WANT MY NEW AIR FORCE DRESS UNIFORM AS IT APPEARS IN THE ARTICLE. HOW MUCH AND WHEN, LET'S GET BUSY ON THE PRODUCT... DEFINITELY A GO HERE!!!

Posted by: RRR at October 10, 2008 11:04 AM

Y YES I APPROVE OF THIS NEW DESIGN, ITS VERY COOL. ITS DEFINITELY A GO WITH ME. CONTINUE TO AIM HIGH !

Posted by: RRR at October 10, 2008 11:01 AM

I think the People who keep changing the uniforms way tooooo often should really be concentrating on what is really needed, like proper protective gear and weapons for the military personnel who are outside an office Really Protecting Americans, and less time on how a uniform worn in an office LOOKS. I am a disabled Air Force veteran and my husband has been in the Air Force for 25 years and we have seen way too many UN-NECCESARY changes to the uniforms over the years. When I was "Active" I stayed in WWII era dorm buildings, shouldn't things like that be up-dated before a "New Look" is implemented to "Uniforms".

Posted by: C Green at October 10, 2008 01:00 AM

Sarah,
You rock. I wish there were more folks like you commenting on here. You are one of the few that get it. The most enjoyable time I've had as a shirt was with the cops. Keep up the good work!

Defender!
Hooah!

Posted by: Sh1rt at October 10, 2008 12:42 AM

Jimbo, If you get the chance to read this, you know not of what you speak. I have a comm maintenance background and have done tactical comms, combat comms, and airborn comms. I deployed Desert Shield/Storm, Southern Watch, OIF/OEF, Horn of Africa. I have slept in the mud and ate tons of sand. I've been in more than half my life and will continue to bust a hump when it is called for. In my daily duties as a 1st sgt, there is not usually the requirement for me to get dirty. I will don a chem suit and a gas mask along side everyone else when we exercise. I still get dirty when the Airmen need a hand. Hell, I'm usually grabbing them to give me a hand. I will mock the folks that wear zoomeralls that don't fly planes. It is a "flight" suit, not a "sit-at-a desk" suit. How much money do you think we spend on that uniform. I pay for mine; flight suits are issued. They ain't cheap. I am proud of the AF AND the blues I get to wear each Monday. Don't worry about the Airmen doing the grunt work. They are still in there BDUs/ABUs.
And you're damn skippy we need to upgrade our aircraft, but whining about the uniform isn't going to prompt your congressman to do anything about it.

Posted by: Sh1rt at October 10, 2008 12:33 AM

You've got to be kidding me...Leaders, please focus on fixing the sizes on the P.T. gear first. I am roughly a 32 to 34 inch individual and have to wear XXlarge shorts and a XLg shirt just so they will fit right and be able to run 3 miles (comfortable). Please focus on the mission then worry about the nice little blue jacket that is probably going to hang in my closet and collect dust due to the nature of my job. Also, I recommend summer weight ABU's since I don't work in an office and am constantly outside. It gets pretty darn hot wearing these things....Have a nice air force day all...

Posted by: Cruzer at October 8, 2008 03:39 PM

I have served in the active duty from 1980-1997 and the Air national Guard now. Don't wear the uniform too often but, I was proud of the style I wore during the cold war era. PLEASE go back to that style. NO $ WILL BE SPENT ON STYLE DEVELOPEMENT IF YOU DO. WE STILL HAVE THAT PATTERN. IT SHOULD NEVER HAD BEEN CHANGED IN THE FIRST PLACE! When I do finally retire I want to remember and keep what I have. I hope it is the correct style (old). BRAC is dimantling the Air Force (because it concentrates only on the Air Force). Too much money is being spent on paying those people for that commission that we can't focus on what our new equipment that is really needed. Get the leadership needed to make the decision to go back to the uniforms that works and that is part of our real heritage and, get the things we need to fly and fight. My son is a MARINE because he was embarrassed to be an Airman. He is proud of me but, the STUPID changes I had to go thru really STEERED him away from the Air Force. GET REAL BEFORE I RETIRE.

Posted by: Tom at October 7, 2008 12:29 PM

Retired MSGT 2001, Glad i did not have to wear this thing...does it come with air condition...lock your knees and you will be down fast. Get real AF.

Posted by: Garret at October 6, 2008 01:48 PM

The proposal uniform looks horrible. The high collar looks very uncomfortable. Since the jacket is not tapered at the waist it does not look neat and professional. I agree with so many of the comments I could laugh. Our other brothers and sisters in arms will make us a laughing stock. Other priorities are far more important like equipment, training and personnel resolves. My heart and prayers go out to AF Active. I thank God I do not have to endure poor priority decisions. It is nice to be retired and not dealing with the stupid decisions.

Posted by: russell banks at October 6, 2008 07:15 AM

I am a retired AF Lt Col...served from 1980-2004 and now teach AFJROTC. I cannot imagine having to put my High School kids in this stupid looking thing. Our current service dress is bad enough...but this looks stupid. If we must change...let's reverse McPeak's folly and bring back the uniform we were all proud to wear. It looked like a military uniform. This high collared costume looks like something from low-budget sci-fi movie...or a cheap halloween costume. As my stdents would say...IT SUCKS!

Posted by: Rob at October 4, 2008 02:55 PM

The Air Force should come up with comfortable, economical and easy to maintain Dress Uniforms. I stayed in fatigues when I was in the Air Force and very rarely wore any of my Dress Uniforms. I can remember the Air Force being wild about Patches on Fatigues, it costed me more to get patches sewed on than the fatigues costed. Members are spending far too much of their time and money on clothes with fancy glitter just to satisfy Ego-Eccentrics.

Posted by: Dan at October 2, 2008 04:27 PM

The Hap Arnold uniform reminds me of a failed experiment back in the 70's---they tried to have Law Enforcement folks wear an "Ike" jacket. It had built in holster clips that made your holster (and firearm) sit up too high---I remember the jacket being featured on posters, but the jacket was ultimately scrapped. And how about the Tony McPeak era that required a v-neck tee for men---it was very unprofessional to have guys chest hair being featured!!!!! I am glad that I'm retired and don't have to suffer through the "Hap Arnold" period!

Posted by: Linda, Great Falls, MT at October 1, 2008 08:30 PM

When Gen McPeak became Chief of Staff, he wanted to modernize the uniform. While I was in the AF, we were taught to think towards the future. With this new uniform they are trying to go back to the past. Besides I think that the proposed uniform looks tacky. Looks like I retired just in time.

Posted by: Will at October 1, 2008 06:34 PM

I spent 23 years in AF Blue, and I have but this to say: if you want the uniform to look "space-age", just get the folks who designed the uniforms for Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica to come up with some ideas. Otherwise, just buy the Army's digital camo and BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Posted by: rcwhiteh at September 30, 2008 10:38 PM

The new uniform....Ha, HaHaHa, HaaaHaHa, HAHA, HEE HEE, GASP, HAHA, HAHA, HAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAA ad infinitum...God I'm Glad I'm retired!!!

Posted by: Rick at September 30, 2008 09:26 PM

Got out of the Air Force just in the nick of time because of stupid decisions. This one proves my point.

Posted by: Dave at September 30, 2008 05:37 PM

My personal thought is that 2 things drove this new change:

1) Some general officer trying to get another star by implimenting a wasteful change so that he has something to put on his performance report

2) Spouse of same hen-pecked general officer making a "suggestion" that they change the look of the uniform at dinner at home. My brief experience as an AF Officer indicates that the spouses of general officers (plus some Colonels in key leadership positions) get pampered and coddled almost as much as the generals.

We're in the middle of a war where the Army is spread thin during 15-18 month deployments in Iraq, GI's killed in Pakistan hotel bombings, and where we're losing ground in Afghanistan. The last thing we need to spend money on is a belt on the AF service dress jacket. Give me a freaking break!!

Posted by: Joe at September 30, 2008 04:44 PM

I am currently wearing the ABU. This poorly constructed idea is too hot, fits poorly, and blends in only with the ACU and the rocky parking lots of the Forward Operating Bases. Once outside the wire, this uniform does NOT produce the effects that it was intended to. CAMOUFLAGE.

Posted by: JTAC at September 30, 2008 11:41 AM

Are our USAF leaders serious? Surely they jest! I laughed out loud when I saw the picture of the suggested new uniform. Holy cow, the picture in this article has to be the most rediculous uniform I have ever seen suggested. What an astonishingly rediculous idea. If we don't have morale problems now, try this on for size and watch both the existing morale drop through the floor. Come on you guys ... get real! Get your heads in the game and straighten-up. Our old uniforms looked very sharp and military-like, then we went to the United Airlines civilian look and the people chuckled (out loud!); now it's suggested we go to this clownish, "got dressed in the dark after drinking too much" look. Please, either get serious or drop the issue, you're embarassing all of us!

Posted by: Rocket13 at September 30, 2008 10:28 AM

Are our USAF leaders serious? Surely they jest! I laughed out loud when I saw the picture of the suggested new uniform. Holy cow, the picture in this article has to be the most rediculous uniform I have ever seen suggested. What an astonishingly rediculous idea. If we don't have morale problems now, try this on for size and watch both the existing morale drop through the floor. Come on you guys ... get real! Get your heads in the game and straighten-up. Our old uniforms looked very sharp and military-like, then we went to the United Airlines civilian look and the people chuckled (out loud!); now it's suggested we go to this clownish, "got dressed in the dark after drinking too much" look. Please, either get serious or drop the issue, you're embarassing all of us!

Posted by: Rocket13 at September 30, 2008 10:26 AM

First thing is first. Our AF leadership needs to pull their heads out of their rear ends. Next our leaders need to go to theater, and not take the standard DV tour. For example, go to Scania, go out with some EOD teams responding to an IED. Maybe, (while wearing ABUs, IBA, helmet, rifle...etc) hop in with an Army convoy across the ITO up to let's say Balad, maybe receive some small arms fire along the way just to really get 'em sweatin'. Then once they're up there have them join an A1C babysitting TCN's (vehicle not included). Go work on a busted up C-130 in 120+ degree heat for a few hours, let them hear a couple mortars land, maybe an alarm red too. Then take them to the theater hospital to work at the helipad for a few hours on a busy night. Enough talk about uniform changes, go talk to the Airmen Tier, NCO Tier, the CGOs, then you'll know what the Air Force NEEDS. I think our leaders (for the most part) are competent and have earned their rank appropriately, but I think sometimes they forget about what it's like being in the everyday, practical Air Force and common sense gets tossed out the window. And 'Blue Monday'?...pun intended...need I say more?

Posted by: Anon at September 29, 2008 05:31 PM

I joined the Air Force because I loved the uniform and the pride i feel wearing it. But, that's when we were wearing BDU's. These people need to work on the ABU's before they try to come up with the 1950s dress uniform. I work in the medical field and I'll tell you those ABUs are the most uncomfortable thick and heavy uniforms ever!! Getting patients on a gurney and into an ambulance is becoming a workout in itself while wearing the ABUs. Let's try to come up with a summer weight that is lighter and more breatheable instead of a stupid dress uniform. Matter of fact once you come up with it. LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!! NO MORE CHANGES!!!! I seriously can't afford to change my unifrom every year because you wanna "save" money on deployments!!! BULL@#$%

Posted by: sticking up for airmen at September 29, 2008 12:56 PM

With all due respect, the government in general, DOD and Air Force leadership must all be on drunken binge beyond believe in their quest to spend money for bail-outs, buy-ins and perhaps other scams. ANOTHER new uniform? Regress to WWI in another color? Must be a joke. The wanna-be Eastern Air Lines and Navy combination uniform look attempted by Gen Mc Peak was bad enough. New BX's, now called 'Service Life Style Centers' and 'Shopping Destinations' at 85+ Million (not considering the usual cost overuns)a pop, just because 'the markets and shoppers are changing and want nicer offerings'? Who are we kidding? Improve quality and quantities and best prices of products using the latest technology!!! The Air Force and DoD can't provide necessary weapons systems in a timely manner and they worry about nonsense like this? What happenened to adages of the past: 'Don't fix what isn't broke' and 'we must do more with less?', among others. But like I was told not too long ago "You don't understand -this is a new Air Force." So be it. Kudos to General Schwartz!!! for putting the uniform issue on the back burner.

Posted by: Johann Behnken at September 29, 2008 12:21 PM

Totally rediculous!! There are Senior Airmen that could do a better job running the Air Force. Same sh--, different day! No leadership to speak of and like so many politicians these numbskulls are trying to deflect attention away from all the real world issues....like winning a war. The last thing in this world the Air Force should be concerned with is what the dress blues look like. Hell, who has time to wear that uniform anyway???...The Chief of Staff. Get real and get smart.

Posted by: SMSgt Helton at September 29, 2008 09:36 AM

This looks like a German outfit. They should never think this way. If they need ideas look at the uniforms from Star Trek Next Generation. Those are mondernized!

Posted by: Martha at September 29, 2008 09:16 AM

DUDE.. WTF. Who hired this dude? How are we goign into the future, when he wants us to wear uniforms from the 1950s? Back to basics huh. Now he's got us wearing blues every Monday in the middle of a war. I've got a huge inventory due tomorrow, that I cant even do because I might get my blues dirty. Focus on resources we really need and NOT another uniform. Pretty soon we'll be like the Navy!

Posted by: Yeah Right at September 29, 2008 08:58 AM

The Air Force and its troops deserve better than this. As a retiree I wore the uniform proudly as did my peers. Its no secret that in this day and age te Air Force needs to get back to the basics as does its leadership. There are far more things the Air Force needs than another uniform change and in particular the blues. You do not see the U.S. Army changing uniforms only to change them again. The Blue uniform of the 80's looked great and I might add sharp and instilled tradition. I think folks need to also look at the indirect costs that the troops incur as well when a uniform is changed and changed again. Yeah they get a clothing allowance, but big deal. THere are still alot of out of pocket expenses that some airman just do not need to incur. Get back to the traditions and put that funding where it should be and for better use. Ihonestly can not believe where we have come from and where we have landed.

Posted by: Bill at September 28, 2008 08:39 PM

When I first saw the picture in this article, the proposed Air Force dress coat reminded me of a scaled-down version of the Marine dress uniform. While I like that uniform, I can't say the same thing about this one. One word comes to mind: TER.RI.BLE. Come on, Air Force powers that be. Your active duty members and veterans deserve better than this.

Posted by: Frances at September 28, 2008 07:06 PM

Is this April's Fools? All the problems the Air Force has; tight budgets, old airplanes, etc and they are concerned about this "dumb" looking uniform. When I was in (60/70's) we had some sharp looking uniforms (blue shirt w/tie and the military crease, ike jacket, gabradines with blue service hat to name a few). The other services have to be laughing their heads off over this "I don't know what you call it." Personally, the Marines still have the sharpest looking uniforms. Semper Fi to all the Marines out there from a retired Air Force crew dog.

Posted by: Retired E-8 at September 28, 2008 06:34 PM

Enough of the uniform tweaking 'fer %#%#&$&!' sake.
I could go on a uniform change diatribe but I'll spare you the obvious rhetoric.
Leave well enough alone.
I have inside scoop on the the origin on the ban of the "T" shirt showing with open neck blue shirt, "Clothes Police" spouses wearing husband's rank.
Enough is enough

Posted by: Doc Rodney at September 28, 2008 03:56 PM

Enough of the uniform tweaking 'fer %#%#&$&!' sake.
I could go on a uniform change diatribe but I'll spare you the obvious rhetoric.
Leave well enough alone.
I have inside scoop on the the origin on the ban of the "T" shirt showing with open neck blue shirt, "Clothes Police" spouses wearing husband's rank.
Enough is enough

Posted by: Doc Rodney at September 28, 2008 03:56 PM

I've been in for 15+, undergone what seems a change in the uniform every other year, if not every year. The only "heritage" the Air Force has is to constantly change- as noted by other services witty banter, if you've ever worked in a joint assignent. Is the change for the Air Force or to make us look just plain stupid...and I'm expected to wear it? You've got to be kidding! Stick to designing a better Air Force, not a "better uniform?" I say leave the friggin thing alone and stop changing.

Posted by: Stephanie at September 28, 2008 03:32 PM

This just proves that as "smart" as the general staff thinks it is, this colossal brain fart really stinks. What a waste!

Posted by: Maj Dave at September 28, 2008 02:15 PM

1918 General Pershing uniform? It looks like a chairman Mao jacket with brass!!!! I was in from 1966 to 1970 and we had some good looking uniforms. It's the military not a fashion show!!!!! Let the seagoing bellhops have the fancy uniforms ours look just fine circa 60's & 70's.

Posted by: James G Elder at September 28, 2008 12:11 PM

I am glad I retired. For some reason the leadership in the AF belives they must be difined by what new uniform they can bring into the service while they are in charge. I cannot belive once agin they go to changing the uniform while we are in the middle of a global conflict, what is worse is they fail to see those warfighters out on the front lines (SF, CC, PJ, etc) who are accomplishing ground warfare and provide them with a real good combat uniform...one that is not hotter then hell...stop thinking office wear, start asking the Airman fighting the war what they need...

Posted by: Roger Brushaber, USAF Ret at September 28, 2008 08:18 AM

It's truly hard to believe that we're talking about new uniforms changes while fighting a significant war in two zones. Every penny saved could be directed to the total war effort or for programs to give our single service members a better quality of life at home station. Our image with the american public has been really tarnished due to the nuclear weapon misteps,our former air force's (Gen.Moseley) chief of staff lack of focus in supporting the war effort in Iraq and Afghanistan. Addressing a uniform issue now is just totally condescending in attitude to the general public..tax payers.Wake up air force leaders, stop the wasteful agenda now!

Posted by: joebrucee at September 28, 2008 06:54 AM

I'm hoping no one else crunched the numbers and posted this before me, but the end of fiscal year 2008 force shaping was supposed to bring us in the ball park of 328,600 enlisted personnel. Someone wants to authorize $125,000,000 to be spent on this uniform design. That equates to about $380 per enlisted member from the newest Airman Basic to the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. If I'm not Mistaken $380 would buy a full new set of ABUs and maybe even steel toed boots (haven't wasted my money on staining a set of them in the engine shop yet). I'm all for the Tradition of the Air Force, I'm 3rd Generation myself and would love to be able to be more proud of it, but when things like this get in the way of common sense it really frustrates me that we have the command we have.

There have been mentions of how the force morale is circling the drain and something needs to be done about it. spending $125 million on a new uniform won't do it. spending $125 million on taking care of the needs of your troops and their families whether it be monetarily or in the form of new uniforms so they don't have to buy them or even putting the $125 million towards better bullet proof vests for when we have to help the army and make convoy runs.

I have one simple request from my chain of command. Stop talking about morale and do something about it.

Posted by: SrA Kaufmann at September 28, 2008 12:55 AM

Hang in there! One more tweak and we are there. Just replace the nazi SS collar with a normal flap collar, lose the top button and belt and we are back to the four button, four flap pocket, pre-McPeak service dress. Put this one in the closet with the white ceremonial (wore it once to graduate from ACSC) and the American Airlines wannabe with naval stripes for officers rank (turned promotion ceremonies from a pin on to a coat change.) If you want to return to roots bring back the Combination three, the blue wool shirt with military creases, worn with a tie. Think Gregory Peck as Gen Frank Savage in 12 O'Clock high, except in blue.

Posted by: Mike S at September 28, 2008 12:09 AM

I entered the AF when it was a good service 1962-1966, and now they all look like Boy Scouts in training. Ya I wore the 1505's and the good looking blues, and was happy looked good and did not have to have it tailored for fit. 125 mil OMG and they make the vets pay for meds even from the VA???? Yes they can order for a new uniform change whenever they want but they can't put some of the excess into the veteran that needs help... Oh yes not to say that you can join a pscript card club and go to the VA and get your drugs cheaper than the co-payment they charge you for the same drug. Besides that when I enlisted I got my first set of all my clothes and only had to pay for then when they were worn out or needed repair that could not be fixed. What I can't figure out is why the change the fit of the uniform don't care what color your blood is or where you live, be on a SAC base sometime......

Posted by: Big Jon at September 27, 2008 06:41 PM

I entered the AF in Jan 1957. A couple of years later the AF got rid of two of the sharpest uniforms they ever had; the blue Ike Jacket and the Army kahki shirt and pants worn with blue flight cap, blue tie and blue belt. Of course, that was during the days when pot bellies were not part of the standard AF uniform, and General McPeak was only a figment of someone's imagination.

Posted by: Mike Hahn at September 27, 2008 05:25 PM

I was deployed for 365 days and sent an AF Survey on the new uniform, you can imagine my response. Not sure what has happened to our sharp leadership, I came in during the Colonel/General Horner days, who understood mission, compliance and accountability and slammed buffoonery as soon as it reared it's ugly head. But, I do hope this next generation of leaders display more "Courage" and not Salemanship as they now have some real world "boots on the ground" experience that will influence perspective and priorities.

Respectfully

Retiring very soon...

Posted by: Donna at September 27, 2008 09:19 AM

I am pleased that the chief of staff has decided to put a hold on these uniform changes. If the picture is anything to go by--these jackets will not be complimentary to anyone who wears them. I would much rather see the money proposed for this change be put into somthing that will actually benefit the members of the Air Force.

Posted by: Joanne at September 27, 2008 08:00 AM

Yes, this is true and our new Chief of Staff has put the idea on hold. The intended thought process was to return the AF to its heritage, mainly the look of Gen. Billy Mitchell, pre-World War 2 Army Air Corp. But at some other time. Not now. We're too deep into a two+ front war to be messing with this idea.

Posted by: Greg at September 27, 2008 02:18 AM

They MUST be kidding! First, they can't even make the models jackets fit right. That's scary for the normal folks who will have to wear these disasters without benefit of constant tailoring to allow for normal body changes. The cut shows every body flaw. Without the "break" of a lighter shirt collar the overall effect is dull and centers attention on the guy's fat gut (did I just say that?). Belts are a horrible idea under any condition, and this style is suggestive of SS/Gestapo uniforms, like something out of Indiana Jones. It isn't like the Rhode Island State Troopers, who have an awesome, cool, and unique uniform that hasn't changed; this AF uniform jacket is such an extreme change to a poor style ill-fitting mess that..... I can't even express it. And the COST; why not spend the money on (gasp!) better medical care? Care for dependents? Updating medical facilities, housing, new ambulances? Navy uniforms, by the way, are SO nice to look at. And Marines Corps dress blues? Take your breath away. Don't see them changing uniform styles every five minutes!

Posted by: Air Force FAMILY at September 27, 2008 01:24 AM

The country is running out of money and we are paying Generals to come up with a blue version of General Pershing's 1918 uniform!

Posted by: Patrick Quinn at September 26, 2008 10:51 PM

I'm sure its just a joke, no one in there right mind would even suggest a uniform such as this, except for those people who dont have a job and their only purpose in life is to make changes to justify their existence. I'm sure you all know who I'm talking about.

Posted by: John at September 26, 2008 10:32 PM

Have to agree this is another step backwards. I spent 27 years (6 AD Air Force)and saw this uniform at the Nevada Professional Airmen s Conference. Uniforms normally progress not regress. You build on what you learn. The service went to all BDUs in the late 80s to cut costs, now we blow scarce DOD dollars on uniform changes that not only the majority of personnel despise, but waste valuable time and resources on this. I voiced my disgust then and now. Glad that as a retiree- if I choose to wear the uniform at an approved function, I can wear the uniform I had at retirement. I would not want to be buried in this version- uncomfortable for eternity.

Posted by: Tim ANG Retired 1st Sgt at September 26, 2008 10:29 PM

I am a retired USAFR CCM so I dealt with many many changes in the uniforms over the years. Most were very positive changes, of course I still lament the elimination of the 1505 uniforms of the 70's and before as well as the update of the Air Force emblem. BUT this proposed change has to be most absurd thing that I have ever seen come across the drawing board. Thank goodness I am retired, this looks like a clown outfit and I would not want to be seen in one. Take the money for this research and do something decent for the troops.

Posted by: James Weaver at September 26, 2008 10:01 PM

I am currently a SRA in the Air Force and I can honestly say they are horrible at designing uniforms. ESPECIALLY for women. The new ABU's are sized horribly and they are supposed to have women's sizes. My top is a size two which was two times to big still so I had to have it altered. Then my pants are a 6 and are to small in the waist but if I had got the eight then they would of been 3 times to big in the thighs and I would of ended up spending about 20 more dollars to get those altered. I don't know how hard it is to figure out the shape of a woman. I wish the Air Force would stop making uniform changes and start thinking about the ladies and get us better FITTING uniforms.

Posted by: Becca at September 26, 2008 07:29 PM

Man, where do I start?
1) I've worn stiff collared uniforms like that and they're VERY uncomfortable. As usual, these new uniforms make the fat guys look fatter and make the women look like men. Shoot the designer.
2) Here's an idea: spend money on all the tankers and equipment the AF needs. New clothes? Are you kidding??? How about putting resources into making sure the AF stops dropping the ball with the world's most powerful nuclear arsenal?
3) The AF is pitiful with all the costume changes. The McPeak uniform was a big improvement (other than the stupid officer sleeve rank thing he tried). Go back to that.

4) I can't BELIEVE how much we keep changing the uniform. The size of the AF is the smallest it's ever been and the morale is in the toilet. Everyone is waiting for the AF to be folded back into the Army, based on all the Army duties we're having to do now. Everyone's trying to work out like the army, train like the army.... It's ridiculous how insecure the service is. We used to be the bomb. Now, all we're known for is flying nukes to the wrong place, taking launch codes out of silos accidentally, firing Chiefs, and god damned uniform changes. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN THE AIR FORCE WAS COOL? That's what we get for promoting the supposed "best and brightest" these last 20 years. Look at the mess these idiots have made of what used to be the most envied service. I hope you're proud of yourselves!!!

Posted by: Ryan at September 26, 2008 07:02 PM

If I were still on active duty I would find this to be a great embarassment to wear. I hope that a promotion or cash award wasn't given to the person who came up with this !!!

Posted by: Gary at September 26, 2008 06:44 PM

why bother? As a retired SMSgt, I think I might have worn my blues 10 times in my 23 year career.
As a Stan/Eval Loadmaster on C-130's, I always wore a nice worn out flight suit, before that I was a REDHORSE Electrician and wore first the OD fatigues and then later the Original BDU'S, the bag was definitely the better of all uniforms.

Posted by: Mudd1206 at September 26, 2008 06:35 PM

How many badly tankers can be bought with 125 million? Think about it...stupid looking uniforms or airplanes? Does the Sec of the A/F need help with this decision? If so, we have the wrong man in the job (again)!

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 26, 2008 06:06 PM

OK...I have it, the solution to this blunder or mess or just BAD decision making. Back to the basics!

To start, Leave the Class A Uniform alone. No change, leave it as it is...for now!

Next everyone to include ALL ranking officers, EVERYONE (flight crew or not) who is currently wearing a flight suit more than 2 hrs before scheduled flight and 2 hrs after flight, gets a reprimand in their files. Everyone who is not on flight status and is or has been known to wear a flight suit, gets a suspended bust for 6 months. Everyone that is not working in a job that required fatigues (mechanic, CE, cooks, select medical staff etc) must wear their Class A's everyday. If you are scheduled to fly, you change your uniform prior to heading out to the plane just before you crew brief or file your flight plan.

Once a month, each base will have a parade. Take the 10 LOWEST ranking individuals on base as the judges. Everyone gets to march, Wing C/C, Base C/C, everyone. The judges will select the best squadron and then, next month they get a pass and don't have to march.

This should take care of the little bit of morale that is remaining the USAF today. When everyone is happy, then, change the uniform. Let each Wing submit a rendering of that that Wing thinks it should look like men and womens. Once all renderings are available have a MS PowerPoint presentation made of all of them and send to all Wings and allow them to vote. They CAN NOT vote for their own rendering. When a winner is selected, make the change and everyone will be happy again. Pride will overcome the A/F and moral will surely go up too. Everyone will calmer to wear their new zoot suit everyday. If you buy two Class A's you get a discount. Next, start on the hat. Gotta do something with the hat so it will match the new uniform.

Now is this an idea or what? Can't say it is a waste of time...the A/F is already doing that every 3 to 4 years with their uniform changes. This is just a different kind of approach to waste time and money and increase re-enlistments.
Ya gotta love it!

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 26, 2008 05:57 PM

First of all,the new Chief of Staff should be more mindful of the true mission of our Airmen serving TODAY. Service Dress Mondays, I think is a waste of time for Airmen. Are we not in a "war" mode? Sure, Commanders' have a say in this issue; however, this "Service Dress Mondays" should have never come up in the first place. Our Airmen are more important than if they have a Service Dress uniform. Put our Airmen in the uniform that will best sute the "MISSION" at hand.
As for this new Service Dress Jacket. Throw the design in the garbage. This thing looks like something out of WWI. I'm a proud retired Airman and if I had to put that thing on, I would ware BDUs first. Can this mistake, $125,000,000.00 is to much to pay for this uniform desaster.

Posted by: Gary L. Bridges at September 26, 2008 05:52 PM

I've been to Texas, 4 state fairs, 32 goat ropings, and served 22 1/2 years in the USAF and this is a waste of money and if approved would be changed with a new CSAF comes to office.

Posted by: Ken at September 26, 2008 05:09 PM

Some other General Officer wants to leave a legacy of some sort on his Air Force. In the 80's it was paint everything Creech Brown, but turned out OK. McPeak's uniform was a bold move, but it's turned out OK, and is still OK. This new uniform, to change just for the sake of maintaining heritage, is stupid. Back then, they got rid of it for a reason, probably still a good reason to avoid it now. Come on General, you made a mistake, own up to it, your ego will be OK. 25 yrs USAF/ANG Retired MSgt

Posted by: Paul at September 26, 2008 04:55 PM

I agree with the folks, that there are more important issues facing the Air Force than uniforms and a belt... this isn't a fashion show! I mean we have war to worry about... not clothes!

Posted by: Amber Westerlund at September 26, 2008 04:04 PM

It is very concerning that us officer has to continue to expend $$$$$ with every modification or change in uniforms. This is and has been a very costly endeavor and needs to cease and desist. If they were to be provided free then bring it on! However $125 million and we expect who to cover that the taxpayer. Don't you think that the $700 Trillion bailout is enough without piling on. If the AF is going to spend this type of money, spend it on upgading our equipment for crying out loud.

Posted by: Air Force Loyalist at September 26, 2008 03:52 PM

My husband and I are both retired AF (1997 and 2000) and went through so many uniform changes, it was ridiculous! While I hated the McPeak fiasco of a dress uniform, at least it seemed comfortable. This high-necked monstrosity looks like it would be so uncomfortable -- and what abou those of us "older" folks who don't really need to highlight our waistlines and don't want to choke on that stupid collar?!?!?! We're thanking our lucky stars we're retired!
Come on, Air Force, we can do better than this. Spend the money on the IMPORTANT things, like upgrading the AF fleet of aircraft! How about new tankers and fighters, as well as improved training? I can think of hundreds, if not thousands, of better ways to spend the taxpayers' money.
Ellen Stevens, SMSgt ,USAF, (RET)

Posted by: Ellen at September 26, 2008 03:33 PM

If we are going to change uniforms lets go back to the ones that were worn during WWII Pink and Greens. They were good looking and neat. Forget the new Blues, they are not what the troops want.

Posted by: M.L. Speed at September 26, 2008 03:21 PM

Shades of 1917. WOW!!!. Good thing you'd never catch me in one of those monkey suits - too old.
Don't know who is on the uniform selection board but, how about assigning only the CMSgt's of each major command to the board, one from each command, and only the Chief's. They can do the same for the officer uniforms. But, keep a motif for repsenting the USAF and NO compromises. I suggest leading edge technology. The mess dress uniform for the 90's was a smart, sharp unifrom and airmen (et al) were proud to wear it.

Posted by: Richad S. Jones at September 26, 2008 02:34 PM

The Navy, Marine Corp and the Army, for the most part, have traditions. The uniform is part of military tradition. The Air Force seems to resist tradition. When the Navy departed from their traditional sailor uniform, they soon realized their mistake and corrected it. The Air Force, a spin off from the Army, has adopted/retained some brown shoe Army's management policies that are not appropriate for a highly technical service. One such policy is 20-year retirement or RIFing the lower grades because they cannot charge up the hill. That policy is another economically inefficient and demoralizing policy that causes loss of experience and expertise. If we adopt other services policies, should they not have value and purpose? Why can't leadership strive for more practical changes that instill pride and promotes productivity.

What was wrong with the "semi-tux" of the 60's? It had class. The air Force has made many uniform "dress code" changes during recent years including authorizing the wearing of jungle fatigues state side. Air Force personnel are seen in commercial facilities all over this country wearing jungle fatigues and it does not seem appropriate. The casual dress adopted by much of industry and the military has done little to improve productivity or increase pride in the work place. Appropriate dress in the work place and a classy formal uniform for dress functions would instill pride.

I'm sure that changing the dress uniform through the Governments burdensome contracting process would cost the Government a great deal; however, uniforms are purchased by the airmen, NCOs and Officers. Some purchases, I assume, are done with a uniform allowance. I don't believe that allowances are increased or anyone is reimbursed for ill advised or discretionary uniform changes made by the leadership.

The leadership needs to listen to the troops. When the navy changed the uniform of the enlisted ranks, they realized their mistake and returned to the traditional "sailer" uniform.

No, I do not like the proposed uniform. I hope that inertia in the Pentagon is not stoppable and promotions have not been given for this effort.

Posted by: LM at September 26, 2008 02:00 PM

Where is the leather cross strap and belt to support sidearms? Or, for that matter, a row of brass buttons placed horizontally across the front? Let's not forget the gold leather helmet to top it off with the initials AAF emblazoned on the front and some knee high jack boots. I think this uniform was designed by the Lee brothers. They are best known by UG Lee and Home Lee! Spend the money wasted on idiotic things like these uniform proposals on weapons systems and better pay for active duty or to off set the cost of TriCare for retirees. Retirees support the active Troops and in turn, the active Troops should support military retirees because if you stay 20 years or more, eventually you'll be a retiree one day yourself. Hmmmmmmmm?

Posted by: Wurtsmith lives! at September 26, 2008 01:26 PM

As a proud veteran of the USAF I would like to see any uniform changes reflect ideals of the future. Perhaps looking at the futuristic jumpsuit uniforms from Star Trek series would be appropriate. After all, Gene Roddenberry and Star Trek has inspired countless millions including NASA scientists.

I prefer the jumpsuits worn by Belana Troi and Tom Paris in the episode where they piloted the Flyer in a cosmic race. The colors and style were superb.

Posted by: Frederick W. Brink at September 26, 2008 01:13 PM

Think! Regulations will require that the belt has to be buckled while in the uniform. In case of an air transport water crash landing, the time spent removing the jacket via unbuckling vs. ripped buttons is substantial. This could cost lives.

Posted by: JackE at September 26, 2008 01:03 PM

What a DUMB and a STUPID Idea. - - and a waste of money

Posted by: LARRY MCKENNA at September 26, 2008 12:47 PM

I am a retired Air Force Senior NCO and I think all these uniform changes is nothing but a waste of money. The last big change made officers look like airline pilots and it only lasted a little while and then they went back to the original uniform. Instead of wasting millions of dollars for a uniform change, why not spend that money on something USEFUL such as, our military folks that need financial assitance or for better protective gear for the people that are in a combat zone or for a better increase salaries for our military people including the retirees. Why is it that everytime we have a new person in charge, they always want to make rediculous mondane changes just to leave their mark.

Posted by: Pat at September 26, 2008 12:33 PM

It must be nice to get paid to come to work and think of the most rediculous ideas for uniforms. We(Air Force) waste too much money and time on changing the uniform. Give me the $125 million and I'll show you a uniform. They're crazy!

Posted by: Darryl at September 26, 2008 12:00 PM

You know, after reading quite a few comments about the NEW Dress uniform, I think that I have to agree with everyone else. I have only been in the Air National Guard for nine years, but I also spent 9 years in the Army National Guard and I also spent 9 more years on Active duty in the Army. I really do not like this proposal, at all. The best uniform I ever wore was the very first Dress Uniform I wore. The Army Class A's from the early 1980's. It was comfortable, somewhat cool in the summer, and warm in the winter. I don't understand why we keep changing the stupid Dress uniform. If the Air Force could take that old Army uniform and dye it blue, change the buttons, and the belt. I think we would have a uniform that would be functional AND comfortable. I also agree with most everyone else about the ABU's. They are EXTREMELY hot in the desert. I spent five months over there in 1990-1991, and I just cannot understand why we are being forced to wear a POLYESTER uniform, of all things! Has the uniform board EVER been to SW Asia? It's things like this that are making people want to get out, not the war. If you are going to change the unform AGAIN, then at least make it something comfortable and easy to wear, not this monstrosity!

Posted by: David at September 26, 2008 11:47 AM

After reading the article, $125 million for the uniform change? A uniform that looks like the Nazis SS troops. The Neck colar will rub your throat and will cut into your neck everytime you look down. In my opinion, we should just stop fixing the uniform and keep what we have. If you want to spend $125 Million on something that is effective and works, then give it to the enlisted personnel, not to something like this "New" uniform. The uniform is suppose to seperate the different branches, not look like Hitler is running the Board. What we have works, so just stick with what works! Like many have stated, "If it ain't broke, Don't fix it!". If you want to fix something "Broke" send the money that is projected for this ridiculous uniform to the "Broke" enlisted personnel, that will "Fix" some financial problems!

Posted by: Nikkia at September 26, 2008 11:01 AM

My biggest complaint concerning uniform changes does not have to do with the change, but rather that they never provided funds for the sewing of all the accouterments on the new uniform; not to mention that the clothing allowance also amounted to 25% of the total cost to replace all uniforms; so it would take four years to "replace" the uniforms.

Talking about priorities, why are we replacing jet fighters in the first place (last time I checked, Al Qaeda doesn't have any), rather than putting all the effort expended in the last years on the Raptor, and the Lightning, towards a new tanker. Talk about short sighted leadership!

Of course what can you expect from a service that only demands accountability from the enlisted and not the higher echelons (e.g., the Taiwan fiasco; no Article 15s, no courts martial for Generals that definitely were derelect in their duties of safe guarding nuclear components).

Posted by: William at September 26, 2008 11:00 AM

It is sad that in an era of shoddy nuke accountability, and Airmen in need of strong mission leadership, that we would even be discussing this. The proposed uniforms are sickening and "Nazi" was the very first thing that came to mind. Remember McPeak? It only takes one bad idea (or many in his case) at the right level and all hell realigns and people start jumping through the highest hoops possible. I feel for the folks still in and I am glad I served but glad I'm retired now. I wonder how Gen Fogelman would react to all of this??

Posted by: Scott at September 26, 2008 10:42 AM

Here is my 2 cents worth! I can't belief my eyes! These uniforms are terrible! Like others who've commented, my first thought was 'Nazi Uniform....What?, Why?!'

That collar would be very irritating for everyone.

Posted by: Larry B-Retired Major at September 26, 2008 10:31 AM

These new BDU coats look like something from Hitler's reign!!!

Posted by: Rene' at September 26, 2008 09:58 AM

Well the Army is going Blue with their new service dress. Why don't we go Green! The WWII USAAF :Pinks and Greens" is truely a great looking uniform. By the way, having worn the Marine Corps Dress Blues while in ROTC, trust me, you do not want that stupid vice of a collar aound your neck. And what is the underlying shirt. In Haps day it was collarless. Won't that look grand while your working around the office!

Posted by: Mike at September 26, 2008 09:49 AM

Who came up with this ridiculous uniform change? As usual it probably stems from some general that that wants to put his/her stamp on the AF, or a fast burner that wants to create a reason to get promoted, or may be someone that wants to land a job with a defense contractor after their military career is over. The AF has more important things like procuring warfighting equipment. Let's do something that probably hasn't been done before, ask the lower ranking airmen their opinion since they will have to purchase and wear this silly uniform,if it is adopted. Let's change the paradigm and spend money on useful items. I spent 20 years in the Air Force and this has to be one of the most, if not the most ridiculous proposal to change the uniform. NO to this useless, unnecessary change to the uniform!

Posted by: LR at September 26, 2008 09:48 AM

I like them very much. Great job.

Posted by: Natalie Greene at September 26, 2008 09:44 AM

You've got to be kidding me!

Daniel E. "Stump" Sowada
Col USAF (Retired)
Austin, Texas

Posted by: Daniel E Sowada at September 26, 2008 08:24 AM

I thought this was the Air Force....why are we trying to look like Marines?

Posted by: Ron at September 26, 2008 08:05 AM

Those are the new air force uniforms? The ones in the pic?
They suck! They look like a cross between waffen SS and hotel doormen.

Posted by: Olternaut at September 26, 2008 07:38 AM

I have read the majority of comments and I must say everyone seems to be bothered my the proposed design of the service dress uniform. I agree with them. The theme they are using is let's get back to our heritage. Our heritage officially began in 1947 when we became the Air Force; I know change is a part of life but make a change for the better not the worse. Someone posted that a slight change to the old service dress was all that needed and I agree. I have grown to except the current service dress uniform but I do not wear it that often. My job requires me to be able to get dirty on an occasion along with some office work. I'd rather have comfort and a good fit any day because we as military people spend majority of our day in the uniform.

A change is need but not in the current service dress uniform, not yet. We should correct the mistakes with the PT gear and the ABU before we journey out to make changes to other uniforms that do not require immediate change. The AF personnel is not known for its physical standards. We have some people that are out of shape and would be an embarrassment to the AF if they wore a uniform with a belt to further enhance their roundness (Officer & Enlisted). I would like a uniform that would make us look like a US military rather some military clowns. The uniforms are part of our history but the people and the progress we make in aviation is our true history. The uniform doesn’t make the military the people do. If our leaders took real pride in their jobs and stop kissing up or playing favorites then we would have a proud heritage like the Army, Navy, and the Marines.

We are the youngest military branch and we act like spoiled brats. We should act like the proud men and women that we are. A change in the right direct is always good but a change in the wrong direction is wrong and fatal.

Posted by: Chris_my 2 cents at September 26, 2008 05:25 AM

Who dreams up this sillyness? Desolve the Uniform Board. Let the members focus on their people and primary jobs. It's been said a million times "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" Have an active duty AF daughter, son in law and nephew. Allow them and their fellow airman to focus on their jobs not cluttering their closets. Uniform changes over the past 4 years has been a wast of resources. Keep it simple, distinctive and most importantly functional. Don't get me wrong, The Air-Force is the "bomb"! But seriously, don't distract those currently serving with unnecessary change. Focus the effort and dollars on the right needed tools!

Posted by: Tim at September 26, 2008 04:47 AM

The Air Force is trying to find itself lets go back to the Arnold Days and bring back the Cacky dress uniform i thought i looked sharp back in the Air Corps day and hell we are trying to get back to our Haritage thats back to the Corps days.

Posted by: cody covert at September 26, 2008 04:45 AM

When I was in we had to wear plain green jungle fats and white underwear. No camo. In SEA. Not much of a combat outfit. Stateside, we still wore starched green pickle suits everywhere. The 1505's were just being phased out. Heck, if you wanted stylish military fashion--the Hair Force wasn't the place...

Posted by: Larry at September 26, 2008 12:56 AM

If this uniform get passed out to the troops, I'll be retiring.

Posted by: TRANES at September 26, 2008 12:47 AM

I agree with G re Naval Aviation Working Greens, or even WW2 Army Air Corps/Force style and colour.

Posted by: Bill at September 26, 2008 12:20 AM

I have to chime in with the bajillion (Sp?) negative reactions to this proposed "NEW" uniform. My first reaction was complete contempt for the look. I thought we defeated the Nazis WWII? Why are we trying to immitate them now?! Dissolve the uniform board and focus on what really matters...taking care of the troops. I haven't heard anyone saying moral is down because of the current uniforms!!! If it isn't broken don't fix it!!!

Glad to have served...my heart and prayers to those serving now!!!

Posted by: Marc, MSgt (Ret) at September 26, 2008 12:13 AM

I still like the Army Air Force "Pinks". Heck, lets bring them back for officers and enlisted.
They were a really cool uniform then. With everything else being brought up. Lets bring these up now. Who knows, with some modification, we might have something going. This can be no worse than what is being suggested now.

Posted by: Bob at September 25, 2008 11:56 PM

Just follow the money. Hundreds of millions. Don't even doubt that money does not talk.

This shows what the up-or-out promotion policy produces--fraternity flunkies with lots of rank and short on wisdom and integrity. When will the AF stop acting like the PTA? Shameful. What a ridiculous uniform. When they figure out that it is the person in side of the uniform that they need to fix, they will half way there. Careerists are fascinated with "fun" things. Case in point.

Posted by: AFCalvin at September 25, 2008 11:35 PM

As a retired Chief, I'm embarrassed that we have people coming up with such a rediculous uniform idea. The people that would even consider this uniform are way, way out there. As a tax payer I'm appaled that we've paid for even the demo versions of this. Leave the uniform alone. I'd say get rid of the flight cap too, but I'm afraid of what someone might come up with.

Posted by: Chief OX at September 25, 2008 11:16 PM

I retired in 1977 after 20 years active service. I remember the many uniform changes during my career. I spent two tours as a Military Training Instructor and took pride in the wearing of our uniforms. Change is inevitable, but stick to basics, keep it military, but functional and yet distinctive. There is no need to go retro or copy any other military uniform. I am so glad I am retired. I feel for the airmen on active duty having to put up with these changes and expense. We catch enough flack from the Army, Marine Corps and even the Navy without having to endure anymore uniform changes. Change for change sake does not make any sense. Save some money, get functional and yet distinctive and stick with it.

Posted by: Horace R. Tumey at September 25, 2008 10:40 PM

It's still a bus driver's uniform. BTW -- really enjoy retired O-5's and O-6's working for a retired SMSgt.

Posted by: Ben at September 25, 2008 10:17 PM

Com-on Folks,

Leadership,

In an era where the United States is falling apart, were concerned about what uniform works best. It's truly time to get back to the basics. How about we start being more concerned about the people than what fashion statement were making.

I mean, I'm only an retired enlisted SMSgt but I believe in common sense and attempt to focus on real issues.

The troops deserve better.

Posted by: Michael Montgomery at September 25, 2008 09:49 PM

I enlisted in the USAF in 68 and althought my daily uniform was always fatigues I got to agree with bringing the 1505 class 2 uniform back. I was "way cool" and seperated us from the other branches. Nobody had a more sharp "khaki" uniform than the Air Force wore. As for the new Mitchell dress blues blouse I hope the statement saying the decision is postponed to sometime next year means it will die a quiet death and be forgotten about, FOREVER! Leave such uniform styles with the Corp where it belongs I say. They wore it first anyway so it belongs to them.

Posted by: Dave Butler at September 25, 2008 09:44 PM

Retired in 1998. My Dad retired in 1970. Go back to the 1505's or the 1960's to 1980's blue blouse and badges. You can't make a tradition overnight, you build it over time. Hated everything McPeak did. Appears a bunch of his cronies are running the show now. Feel sorry for our Airman today.

Posted by: Don at September 25, 2008 09:43 PM

This uniform is long time overdue......with the exception of the belt. It makes it look like a raincoat. Remove the belt and you have a winner!

Posted by: T-bird at September 25, 2008 09:41 PM

Being one that wore two different dress uniforms in my career, I believe that the AF needs to pursue the Hap Arnold design. I love the look! It actually looks like a military uniform unlike the bus driver and airline pilot dress uniforms I wore.

The AF needs to go a step further and get rid of the flight cap. It's ugly and does not serve any purpose except to say that they have a hat for their blues. It does not have a bill so it does not keep the sun out of the wearer's eyes. Let's get past tradition on this one and come into the 21st century where business people do not wear hats!

Posted by: Ken at September 25, 2008 09:26 PM

If i wanted to look like a circus clown i'd join the circus. I'm going on a tax strike im not
getting my taxes deducted so the government can
spend money on this circus fashion!

Posted by: JT Sack at September 25, 2008 09:18 PM

If i wanted to look like a circus clown i'd join the circus. I'm going on a tax strike im not
getting my taxes deducted so the government can
spend money on this circus fashion!

Posted by: JT Sack at September 25, 2008 09:17 PM

The new uniform is the most unsightly uniform. I served from 1955 to 1979 and liked the unform.

Posted by: bw2alls at September 25, 2008 09:17 PM

Uniforms - AF Leadership PLEASE WAKE UP!!!! Funding is limited, manpower is limited, morale is DOWN, and the last thing the AF should be focusing on are new uniforms. Redirect the energy toward the MISSION and the personnel. More importantly help to regain our credibility before the American people lose more respect for the AF. Joined the AF in 1989 with much pride and motivation...it is becoming difficult to continue maintaining a positive outlook when I see the AF going down the wrong road.

Slogans..."AIM High". Another misallocation of funds. The money spent on changing a phrase that the American people have grown to know and Airmen have been proud of is unnecessary. More importantly, money was spent to pay Marketing companies to develop a new concept. Also money was spent to change letterhead to reflect the new slogan. Come on AF Leadership. Would you manage your OWN company like this...if so I am sure you would be in the unemployment line.

Lack of Leadership. AF is being managed like Capitol Hill - Good Old Boy Concept. Some, not all, leadership positions are being based on popularity and not always on leadership/management skills. Doing the "RIGHT THING" is not always the right thing. Speaking the truth, no matter how tactful, can result in individuals being looked upon unfavorably.

Stand up and be LEADERS that subordinates can look up to because this is the time the AF needs to make a POSITIVE CHANGE to redirect our Service in the RIGHT direction. General Schwartz has been levied a tough job...recommend cleaning house with folks who are not doing right by the AF. We still have personnel in the AF who are willing to support leaders who are willing to do the right thing for the AF. Will the TRUE leaders PLEASE step up and join the fight. Lead by "Example".

Lack of Discipline. The lack of discipline displayed by some Officers/NCO's is embarrasing. Many times true leaders are reluctant to discipline personnel when needed because the leaders are being reprimanded for discipling personnel.

Bottomline...Although I am frustrated with MY AF, I still LOVE MY AF. Plan is to stay in the Service, continue to do the RIGHT THING and support others who are love the AF and WANT and WILL do the right thing. We owe this to all the other Airmen who have come before us and those who will follow us in the fight.

FYI. Other Services speak negative of the AF but many of them would be honored to wear the blue suit regardless of the current challenges we face.

Posted by: FRUSTRATED...BUT HOPEFUL at September 25, 2008 09:13 PM

Boy! That is the most Beatle Bailey looking crap I have EVER seen. Can we just "stay" with something without trying to copy the other services for once in our era. We are the "Air Force," not a bunch of Army/Navy/Marine wannabees. The McPeak uniform that many of you dog is the most professional uniform, we have had and fits well with the Air Force. I retired after 20 years in that uniform in 2006. I am so glad I was honored to wear it. I hope we "keep" running out of money to change it and spend it on keeping our troops taking care of.

Posted by: Shay at September 25, 2008 09:02 PM

Honestly, we needed a change in our service dress. The Marines by far have the nicest uniform and I truly believe this new uniform is a fresh breath of air versus our current one. I know most people are afraid or tired of change but its been desperately needed. We are pressing into 2009. Embrace the change and strive to look great in your uniform. We should all be proud and looking sharp. "FIT TO LEAD" The only thing that I feel needs to change is the belt. It needs to be a different color. At least with this prototype you can wear your function badges and ribbons without the collar covering them!

Posted by: joe at September 25, 2008 08:25 PM

You want a good serviceable uniform? Let some Airman design it and get it out of the hands of the uniform challenged folks that dreamed up the 19 teens look. Better yet,save the money being foolishly spent on changing uniforms (once again) and increasing the pay of our over worked lower enlisted. Shame on the Air Farse Management club.

Posted by: Steve at September 25, 2008 08:19 PM

Has ANYONE in the USAF General Officer Ranks remembered that we are fighting a WAR? WHAT are you Generals doing in your 'spare-time'?!
Time wasted is Lives Lost!
The USAF 'Leadership' is a JOKE and result of years of political-correct promotions over competencel.
Here is the result!

Posted by: MajorTargetLC at September 25, 2008 08:13 PM

Here's what you do... Whoever designed this monstrosity can give it a try in Texas during the months of July - August and if you STILL think this is a good idea I'll be surprised. I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to buy all these new uniforms. Some things just don't need to be changed!!

Posted by: Marvin Goodman at September 25, 2008 08:00 PM

The AF needs a traditional uniform -- the current one is a McPeak abortion--another of his abberations in which the rest of the AF had to clean up after him. Who wants to look like a US Airways pilot? The AF is a MILITARY organization, not a civilian commercial airline. The Marine uniform is one of the sharpest MILITARY uniforms. If the Hap Arnold uniform is modified-- it could be a very distinctive uniform that could be proudly worn.

Posted by: Stephenc Chock at September 25, 2008 07:42 PM

Wouldn't it be great if a General or someone in charge made a command decision to take a hint from the Marines.... "LESS IS MORE"... Less changes & more emphasis earning the respect due to wearing it. How many people do you see complains about the Marine Blues? My advice to AF-DOD & future uniform boards: Start a new tradition, keep is Simple, keep it Smart/Fit, and keep those around you from changing it every year!!

Posted by: Tim Fenwick at September 25, 2008 07:27 PM

Those are the stupidest uniforms I've ever seen. I'm so glad I'm retired.

Posted by: MxMan at September 25, 2008 07:21 PM

The coat with a choker collar looks almost the same Winter Blouse that the New York PD wore from turn of the century to the 1970's. That collar style is most uncomfortable. I know, as I wore one for 20 years. The whole coat is reminiscent of the Salvation Army Uniforms of the earlier era also. The designer must be on some ego trip to think that this abortion is progressive and stylish. The proposed coat is suitable only for standing in front of department stores at Christmas, ringing a bell in front of a donation kettle! Get smart Air Force!!

Posted by: Robert at September 25, 2008 07:12 PM

FAKE WINGS now adorn the "flight" suits of groundpounder officers and airmen in the AF Space Command! The have velcro-on name tags with their names and new fake wings that look much like real pilot wings until you get up close (about one foot) and check them out. Moreover, they eventually become fake senior nonpilot wings and command nonpilot wings, signifying that these nonpilots have not flown for nine and fourteen years. I suppose it makes them feel good (and safe on the ground), but it is insulting to those of us who actually earned real wings as we slipped the surly bonds of earth and risked our lives in the skies. It is much like allowing the sanitation squadron to wear badges with winged garbage trucks and six medals for cleanliness, or like giving kindergarten kids awards for showing up for recess without wetting their pants.

Jonahmel

Posted by: Mel at September 25, 2008 07:10 PM

I like the service coat that Christoper Walken wore in Pulp Fiction. It looked similar to the ones now, but with the older style pockets (breast pockets only) and no belt.

Posted by: A1C at September 25, 2008 06:53 PM

This uniform is a joke. The service dress jacket that is presently being used is adequate, but that was a waste of money also. The service dress uniform I was issued in 1984 was perfect. Besides, a uniform does not make an aircraft fly, airmen, fuel, parts in short beans & bullets for the troops before a stupid looking comical jacket.

Posted by: MSgt. (Ret.) R.C. Moore, Sr. at September 25, 2008 06:47 PM

That would be a great idea...why don't we bring back the raciest that wore them as well, great job--Dumb Ass--

Posted by: JOE at September 25, 2008 06:43 PM

Have lay off the negativity about the new uniforms. Someone will get a star for pushing it through. Just like all other new stuff that comes down the pike. As my first supervisor told me, if you don't like it just wait a few years, it will come full circle. Keep those Hapless stars coming.

Posted by: pb at September 25, 2008 06:36 PM

I'm sorry, but I like the present Blues. These blues would not look good on a lot of the airmen/women

Posted by: Tricia at September 25, 2008 06:25 PM

I retired last year after 21 years in the USAF. I was okay with the change from fatigues to BDU's and I was okay to the change to the current service dress. I was not looking forward to the new ABU's and thankfully retired before I had to wear them. But this new service uniform is by far the worst I have seen. What a joke! A belt is supposed to be used to hold up your pants-not to show how "robust" a senior NCO has become over the years. What is the USAF thinking?

Posted by: Darrell at September 25, 2008 06:22 PM

It looks like its from a made up kidish show. I think it should have a new look but not that kind

Posted by: justin at September 25, 2008 06:04 PM

Somebody mentioned that we would be the laughing stock of the services, too late we already are and they're still laughing. We can't seem to find our identity, that's why we have and Airmen's creed. By the way, we shouldn't call one of our ranks Airmen because you know what; when you call Hey Airmen! the only person who is going to turn around is the person with that rank. Notice that all of the other services don't use terms that people call them as a rank, ie: Soldier, Sailor, or Marine. Maybe they are smarter then us or at least have more common sense. I heard that the more Educated some peole get the less common sense they have. UMM, might be true
Getting back to the new uniform it looks like a POS. However, the person who stated that we should bring back the 1505s has hit on an ideal. Make a uniform again with more then one color but still stick to the Air Force's heritage not the Army.
For the time being, can we get back to the real world and spend our dollars on fixing jets and flying missions, and for crap sake DUMP ALL OF THE ANCILLERARY TRAINING SO WE CAN ACTUALLY TRAIN OUR PEOPLE TO DO THE JOBS THEY WERE HIRED OR EMLISTED TO DO. Now wonder our planes are looking like crap and our airmen our poorly trained. They spend too much time in the classroom or behind a computer then actually doing their fricking job. That's why our safety reports have gotten worse and so have our aircraft mishaps. Please, somebody wake-up at the wheel and get back to basics, the computer doesn't fix everything and it sure doesn't make every task easier. I think the Chief of staff should have to accomplish all new ancillerary trainig requirements before they are fielded. This stuff needs to be funneled. So let him feel our pain...
The war is not the reason why people are leaving the Air Force, It's micro manageing regulations that are being forced down their throats, just like the uniform changes. Love the job hate the BS. How do we function any more???

Posted by: JCG at September 25, 2008 06:03 PM

Somebody mentioned that we would be the laughing stock of the services, too late we already are and they're still laughing. We can't seem to find our identity, that's why we have and Airmen's creed. By the way, we shouldn't call one of our ranks Airmen because you know what; when you call Hey Airmen! the only person who is going to turn around is the person with that rank. Notice that all of the other services don't use terms that people call them as a rank, ie: Soldier, Sailor, or Marine. Maybe they are smarter then us or at least have more common sense. I heard that the more Educated some peole get the less common sense they have. UMM, might be true
Getting back to the new uniform it looks like a POS. However, the person who stated that we should bring back the 1505s has hit on an ideal. Make a uniform again with more then one color but still stick to the Air Force's heritage not the Army.
For the time being, can we get back to the real world and spend our dollars on fixing jets and flying missions, and for crap sake DUMP ALL OF THE ANCILLERARY TRAINING SO WE CAN ACTUALLY TRAIN OUR PEOPLE TO DO THE JOBS THEY WERE HIRED OR EMLISTED TO DO. Now wonder our planes are looking like crap and our airmen our poorly trained. They spend too much time in the classroom or behind a computer then actually doing their fricking job. That's why our safety reports have gotten worse and so have our aircraft mishaps. Please, somebody wake-up at the wheel and get back to basics, the computer doesn't fix everything and it sure doesn't make every task easier. I think the Chief of staff should have to accomplish all new ancillerary trainig requirements before they are fielded. This stuff needs to be funneled. So let him feel our pain...
The war is not the reason why people are leaving the Air Force, It's micro manageing regulations that are being forced down their throats, just like the uniform changes. Love the job hate the BS. How do we function any more???

Posted by: Joel at September 25, 2008 05:59 PM

Just make it look like Starfleet and call it a day!

Posted by: jr at September 25, 2008 05:38 PM

The USAF uniform does not need change. What we need is new leadership, new tankers, new fighters, new bombers, etc.

Posted by: Rene at September 25, 2008 05:27 PM

Who the heck designed the uniform?? It doesn't look RETRO at all. It looks dated, uncomfortableand unflatering. A dress uniform should represent a military tradition, but at the same time be wearable. An airman should feel able to work in it and still look sharp.
A little tip for the AF: hire people that KNOW about fashion design and get some advise!!! People who earn their living making clothes know a thing or two about mixing the modern with old and coming out with wearable pieces that can become timeless and allow the airmen to look sharp and feel proud of their uniform.

Posted by: Yashira Quiles at September 25, 2008 05:27 PM

WOW! This AF uni stuff really generates some buzz, eh!?!? I think we are fairly unanimous in the idea that chasing better uniforms is a collosal waste of time.

I agree with many here including Doc Boink's lengthy diatribe. Did I look like a Bus Driver back in the 80's...yeah, maybe; but, I didn't look like charter pilot like those horrid McPeak American Airlines Class A's nor did I look like some kind of action movie clown (World Police) in the current blue tiger stripes. The USAF does not need unique unis as part of our 5-year plan to have esprit d'corps. You could have paid the USMC a royalty & simply removed the eagle, globe & anchor from their ACU pattern...I would have worn it!!! You could simply dye an Army dress uniform blue, I would have worn it...but with maybe a few less badges, lanyards and other dressy mess (***I will refrain from discussing our pathological love affair with friggin award ribbons, God help us we must have fragile egos***).

I'd rather have the funding to keep our airframes in the air! I'd rather have Pentagon yo-yos STOP snafuing tanker contracts! I'd rather ensure our pilot's get enough stick-time! I'd rather have our Airman be truly prepared for the coming conflicts!

Too many prima donnas wanting to leave their lasting mark on the force!!! Pissing away the citizens tax dollars while the fleet gets older & older, maintenance crews have to get more & more imaginative, pilots put their lives and those of their cargo (service members & precious war materials) on the line...and some hump in DC wants us to have nostalgic uniforms. These clowns can go get a job with the BRAVO TV network and work on clothing lines with the guys from Queer Eye, and leave the Force to those who really care about it.

SOAP BOX put away...for now.

Posted by: HAZMATMAN at September 25, 2008 05:26 PM

For the love of everything good. I've been out as long as I was in (8 years) and in the time I was in they changed the uniform at least four times (give or take) and since I've been out maybe even more. Don't they have enough issues to worry about?? Leave the uniform alone and focus on more important issues. Its expensive and a hassle to have to replace blues and BDU's everytime someone decides that we need to change something that doesn't need fixing in the first place.... Can we please find a tradition and stick to it???

Posted by: Tanya Self at September 25, 2008 04:48 PM

I’d like to make a few comments on the matter of Air Force uniforms, as I have been following the developments attendant to the selection of new Class A uniforms for US Air Force personnel with great interest.

My active US Air Force service period took place in the mid 1960s, a time when the original 1950s style 4-button, 4 pocket Air Force Class-A blouse was still being worn. That blouse was selected as the desired style for use in replacing the old OD colored USAAF style blouse, when the Air Force first received recognition as an independent Armed Service under the aegis of the National Defense Act of 1947.

At no time while serving (1966-69) did I EVER hear any of my fellow airmen complain about being mistaken for bus drivers, despite the existence of an apparent ‘urban legend’ to that effect that remains with us to this day. As airmen, we were all quite satisfied with the cut and style of that unbelted, 4 patch pocket blouse and wore it with pride during those ‘Cold War’ years. We well understood that the force was only as good as the men in it and no amount of catchy little visual effects (fancy uniforms, et al) could belie that fact. I still have my old uniform today and I regard it with respect as perfectly emblematic of the emerging US Air Force airpower image of the 50s and 60s that played such an important part during that era.

When General McPeak suddenly decided to revise that original blouse style in 1991, I, along with many of my former service colleagues, were absolutely stupefied by what struck us as the bizarre and spectacularly ‘wrong-headed’ redesign of the old Class A blouse to achieve what McPeak described as a ‘cleaner appearance’. Given McPeak’s horsepower as CoS and the ponderous momentum behind his determination for change in uniform style, most of us simply shrugged, despite our profound collective misgivings, and privately regarded McPeak as suffering from some sort of generalized bureaucratic breakdown (while simultaneously grudgingly accepting his seemingly capricious act as inevitable).

Having marked that 1991 event as an isolated fluke of time and circumstance, I was again appalled to learn that the Air Force is once more suffering from an apparent identity crisis: as evidenced by the latest campaign to change the Class A uniform. As before, I completely fail to comprehend why the Air Force simply will not stop messing around with the uniform!

However, since it seems HQ is bound and determined to make changes again, I’d like to offer my two-cents worth in the hope that someone at the top will finally get a grip on reality. While it is my basic opinion that periodic USAF Class-A uniform updating efforts are not only misguided, but totally unnecessary, here are a few thoughts on the current uniform redesign concerns, since once again Pandora’s box appears to have been regettably reopened.

I feel that both the ‘heritage’ uniform prototypes being evaluated are more than a bit ‘off the wall’. To begin with, the ‘Billy Mitchell’ design is clearly unacceptable for the extremely uncomfortable and archaic collar design it reflects; archaic ‘stand-up collars’ may have a cozy nostalgia associated with them, but anyone who has had to wear uniform collars of that type for even the briefest period of time will readily attest to their high level of uncomfortable awkwardness. Ask the US Marines; they’ll readily affirm that fact, after suffering their own such design for a century or more.

Second, the ‘Hap Arnold’ style blouse, with its wide lapels, 3-button style, and belted waist, is also unsuitable. Wide lapels are a styling affectation of the 40s and should remain as such; they are a curious relic of former times that are somewhat awkward in appearance and a bit too dated to warrant resurrection. The cinch-waist, belted styling was perfectly well suited to US Army Air Service uniforms of the 30s that frequently incorporated riding style jodhpurs and calf-boots, but as a styling feature of the modern Class A uniform they are just as dated and awkward as the wide lapels of the ‘Hap Arnold’ prototype. In short, while a nice try (to revive that strong sense of ‘Air Corps’ esprit d’corps that many still look back on with misplaced nostalgia), the Hap Arnold prototype is effectively just as unsuited and inadequate for force adoption as the alternate Billy Mitchell proposal. (I don’t have to remind you, I am sure, that the relaxed roll-down collar of the former ‘Mitchell’ blouse was originally just the traditional stand-up collar unbuttoned and folded over, since you are all presumably well versed in the sartorial evolution of men’s clothes styling.)

The original US Air Force blue Class A blouse was loosely adapted (in 1947) from the RAF’s traditional uniform design, as we all know, merely omitting the latter’s belt, keeping the single-breasted moderate lapel, and adding cloth epaulettes for application of US style rank insignia. It was a wise and well suited (no pun intended) choice, since the uniform ‘worked’ extremely well in all the important parameters of consideration: appearance, comfort, and distinctiveness. The original shade of US Air Force blue may have been just a shade too light (a slightly darker shade of blue might have been a better choice, but that’s splitting hairs), but the original USAF blouse could be worn for many hours and still remain just as comfortable and functional as it was when first put on in the morning.

In my opinion, what is needed most is to toss out those outlandish ‘Hap Arnold’ and ‘Billy Mitchell’ heritage proposals currently being evaluated and return to the original 1950s Class A uniform blouse, complete with those excellent US Air Force emblem emblazoned buttons it started out with (get RID of that wretched winged-star design now in use!). Keep the original cloth flap epaulettes, return to the original 4 patch pockets design, keep the waist unbelted, and retain the single-breasted ‘moderate’ lapel. In short, what would be best for everyone (airmen, officers, and the traditions of the service) would be a return to a slightly updated variant of the original US Air Force blue Class-A blouse of the 50s and 60s!

Once that has been done, it would be well advised to place a stringent moratorium on any further hair-brained schemes by bored higher headquarters staff who are suffering ‘designer moments’ in those lulls between wars!

I always look to the British RAF with great admiration, for many reasons. One reason among those them is the fact that they’ve managed to restrain any urges they might have had to redesign their very functional, traditional, and comfortable Class-A uniform, and have successfully left unchanged a design that has served them extremely well for almost 90 years! Aside from the fact that there’s no legitimate need to do so, they have had the good sense to refrain from falling victim to that affliction of adolescent minded American culture: I reference here the ‘new and improved’ mania that our society has inherited from commercial advertising’s relentless quest to market material consumer ‘things’ to people who really would do quite well enough without them! ‘New and improved’ really serves very little real purpose other than to sell familiar old things to the same people in a new package, when examined critically and objectively, since simple appearance is not and never has been a worthy substitute for substance.

In essence, I suppose you could distill all of my comments down to this single observation: “Return to the past (but not that FAR in the past)�. If you’ve studied Buddhist or Asian philosophy in the past, you are already vaguely familiar with the Buddhist ‘360 degree journey of enlightenment’. It presupposes that you end your journey right back at the starting point, with the journey being necessary in order to gain perspective on where you have been all along. It may sound odd to the narrowly aware, but that is exactly what I allude to here. Return to the ‘beginning’….not of the Army Air Force of the late 30s and early 40s, but to the beginning of the modern US Air Force of 1947 as an independent and equal military service. Readopt the original US Air Force blue Class-A uniform (with slight modifications only). No greater tribute to all who have sacrificed and served the nation as Air Force personnel over the past 61 years could be given, in my opinion.

A few other comments on peripheral accessories would be salient, perhaps. Efforts to bolster self-esteem of enlisted ranks by adopting a single uniform “US� device on the collar for both groups should be avoided. Officers are officers and Enlisted Ranks are enlisted ranks. There is no need to adopt the same ‘US’ device for both. The original uncircled ‘US’ was as perfect for identifying officers as was the original circled ‘US’ was for differentiating Enlisted Ranks. The same applies to the Class-A uniform visored hat insignia for both officers and men: again, a return to the original protocol is perfectly sufficient.

To establish some ‘customs and traditions’ synchronicity with the US Army customs, a silver chin-strap on the Class-A uniform visored hat MIGHT be adopted for all officer ranks, in place of the black leather strap. The black leather strap is very adequate for enlisted hats, as it has always been. [Fortunately, the Air Force has authorized the two ‘farts & darts’ visor bullion embroidery for wear by Majors (as well as both Colonel ranks), something that in my opinion was long overdue for ALL US military field grade officers.]

Similarly, the change of a few years ago to brilliant silver hat and blouse insignia (instead of burnished or brushed silver, as was formerly authorized) has always struck me as being a bit too flashy and a tad too gawdy, when the original dull silver finish was both tasteful and well suited for wear with the Class-A uniform.

In summary, you might say that I advocate a return to the original articles established for wear when the new US Air Force came into being in both essence and in physical fact. I remain steadfastly unconvinced that it is not necessary to periodically reinvent the uniform every few years, since the best way to attract quality personnel to serve in Air Force blue is to establish a long and proud tradition that our people may look up to and admire. Adopting flashy redesigns of uniform items is not only unwarranted, therefore, but a thinly disguised version of that wretched political correctness doctrine that fails so miserably in our schools (the erstwhile ‘self-esteem’ movement that seeks to substitute false and often undeserved rewards for hard-earned recognition, so that everyone ‘feels good’—regardless of whether they deserve to ‘feel good’ of not). Self esteem must be earned, not handed out like candy to bad babies.

[One final comment on ribbons and awards, as long as I mentioned the cult of ‘feel goodism’: In the US, we tend to give our personnel awards for the most trivially insignificant and unimportant achievements. The result is often a chestful of decorations that looks impressive as hell, but that really signifies little in the way of signifying genuine personal achievement. The result of that is that far too many US ribbons have little intrinsic value, thus the value of all decorations is commonised and significantly lessened. The opposite philosophy holds true in England, where awards are seldom given to military personnel unless some great act of achievement or sacrifice has been accomplished. The result of that is that individual military awards and decorations have a value in the UK that is of an order of magnitude above that which obtains in the US among corresponding counterpart military forces. It’s a standing joke that by the time an officer in the US has achieved the rank of full colonel, his entire left chest is almost totally obscured by all the ‘fruit salad’ mufti that has sprouted up under his aviation qualification badge.

In this connection, and to illustrate my point, I well recall a New Yorker cartoon of a few years ago in which an American Air Force officer and an RAF officer are chatting over cocktails at an embassy affair. The US officer has the usual chestful of trivial ribbons which he is attempting to interpret for the RAF officer, citing such things as ‘small arms qualification’, ‘American Defense Medal’, ‘Good Conduct Medal’, and so forth in great detail. Finally, after a recital that has taken the better part of10 minutes, he turns to the RAF officer, who is wearing three ribbons only, and asks him what his awards are for. The RAF officer smiles apologetically (as if embarrassed to be asked) and states his three awards are for extraordinary heroism (the Victoria Cross with clusters, the George Cross with clusters, and the Distinguished Service Order…again with clusters). It is a dryly amusing cartoon in the typically understated New Yorker Magazine manner, but one that gets the point across extremely well, in my opinion.

Thanks for listening, folks. I fully expect all these remarks to become submerged and lost among the thousands of similar comments submitted to you on the subject of current US Air Force uniform revisions, but one can only hope that good sense ultimately prevails at the Department of the Air Force when action is finally completed on this matter! In view of the recent embarrassments suffered by the USAF at the hands of the DoD (by CoS Mike Mosely and the former AF Secretary), one can only hope for the best!

Posted by: Doc Boink at September 25, 2008 04:44 PM

This has the look of Stalag 13. It reminds me of Col. Klink and his group, except the uniforms are in blue.

Posted by: Mel at September 25, 2008 04:12 PM

What? Is the Air Force now into wearing retro uniforms like sports team? Why on Earth would we want to dress like Hap Arnold? I retired in 1997 after 26 years and my favorite uniform was the old 1505's. I nearly cried when they phased them out. Bring back the khaki and blue!

Posted by: Chuck Williams at September 25, 2008 04:04 PM

I Would like the two individuals posing in uniform at a nice air conditioned office, to go ahead and do a funeral service in the middle of sunny Florida for about two hours in the same uniform and them report how they the maintain their professional look.

Posted by: Jose at September 25, 2008 04:03 PM

I dont like this blue uniform with the belt around the jacket. it looks to much like a world war 2 German uniform. Not a good reminder for the people held in German POW camps.Lets keep it American in Style.

Posted by: FRED EURE at September 25, 2008 03:59 PM

I have spent 26 years in the Mil. 14 in the Army side and 12 in the Air side, Active duty in both branches. One of the biggest mistakes I have seen is the AF wanting to change uniforms every time there is a new boss. This cost everyone. Taxpayers, SMs time and frustration in the changes, and now the AF requires the rank to be sewn on the shirts instead of the shoulder boards. So when a SM gets promoted, the shirts will be ruined to sew on the new rank. Lets see if we can move the money to things that matter more. Training, computers, more personnel for the Air Guard & Res, since they are required to do the same things as the AD component but in 24 to 35 days a year!

Posted by: Ron Allen at September 25, 2008 03:43 PM

For the love of God.I had to deal with that totally uncomfortable collar as a kid at the military academy. There is no way that I am going to deal with that again at my age and time in service. It is bad enough when I have to wear a dress shirt,tie and jacket. Give me a break.We have got to stop paying attention to these guys, that come up with these brain storms while their kicking back a couple of cold ones at the Community Club.

Posted by: B.Ramos at September 25, 2008 03:31 PM

hey lets bring back the oppression of those times as well. that is all they remind me of. whe are the freaking airforce on the "cutting edge" and can't come up with anything that is more for the future and stop sticking to the past. damit man, lets give up the past and look to the future!

Posted by: david at September 25, 2008 03:19 PM

As an active AF vet I am quite content with our current blues and see no immediate need for a change. I agree that the new coat looks like something my father wore back in WWII. I will say that the ABU's are a nice change (aside from the parka issue). I like not having to spend money at the cleaners every week.

Posted by: Dan at September 25, 2008 03:10 PM

As a 21 year veteran of the USAF (retired in 1991). This new Uniform looks likes the Marines, from the Mcpeaks days of copying the Navy style to this, and changing the AF logo from Hap Aronld Wings to the Volcan Death ship (waste of tax payer money, the worst uniform change ever!!) I understand our AF is technologically driven, but this is not a weapon system. Can we have our own identity and not follow everyone? Let's not change just to change. Who will pay in the end? everybody who has to wear the new uniform. As my old supervisor say, "K.I.S.S" Keep it simple stupid.

Posted by: Yee Cheng at September 25, 2008 03:04 PM

It looks like the outfits that the storm troopers (the officers) wear on the Death Star...HAHAHA!!!

Posted by: El Sargento at September 25, 2008 03:03 PM

I finally figured out what was missing on that officer's uniform. Needs a Sam Browne belt! LOL (In blue leather of course) and a fitting to hang the sword. (Wonder how many folks know the Air force has a regulation sword?)
dress blues still hanging in the closet where they spent most of the time when I was in.
Flight suits for the pilots, and fatiques for the rest of us, except for the admin types.

Posted by: bydand at September 25, 2008 03:01 PM

When I first saw the "new" uniform, I throught it was a joke. Then I realized they're serious about this Nazis SS like uniform. I thank God everyday that I'm retired! -:)

Posted by: Don Troscliar at September 25, 2008 02:54 PM

You have got to be kidding. I served for 25 years and went through 3 sets of blues "changes." The first was a change from cotton to perm press. The second was a shade change that was unnoticeable unless you mismatched pieces. The third was a change that was because we needed a "distinct" uniform (weren't the other two???). It went to an ill fitting jacket where arms could not be lifted to reach for anything on the table or salute without damn near ripping the sleeves off. The final uniform was mis-cut...it was known...and nobody cared and went on to production anyway because there was a time line to meet. Then came the santa clause belt suggestion on the BDUs...that was laughable. Now it appears that some determined idiot has decided to go back to the original uniform I wore with the addition of a stand up collar and the belt that never made the BDUs. I have to say the last uniform was a POS and probably needed to change...but not to a bigger POS. I can already see that there will be one neck size cut per uniform size and one size does not fit all. It looks stupid and I'm glad that I'm retired and will not have to wear it...to bad for the unfortunate that will...but after the DEMs get in office it should be far fewer people that should have to suffer.

Posted by: learned one at September 25, 2008 02:44 PM

When I first saw this picture, I asked if it was a joke. Is this the USAF or the Salvation Army. Stop wasting airmen dolloars.

Posted by: A. Anderson at September 25, 2008 02:43 PM

Judging from the first several comments, it appears that there's a problem; the story correctly says the uniform would look like that made famous by Hap Arnold -- in other words, a blue version of the USAAF's "pinks and greens" (much like the 1950-70 uniform but witha belt).
The photo shows a uniorm prototype that was NOT accepted, a blue version of the World War 1 uniform, which buttons ar the neck.
The "heritage" uniform acutally looks great, having added the one thing USAF's uniforms needed all along to look military: a cloth belt.
When adopted, the heritage uniform finally will make a USAF general as sharp-looking as a Marine Corp private.

Posted by: Neal Gendler at September 25, 2008 02:18 PM

Plain and simply the ugliest uniform change I have ever seen. Air Force members would be the laughing stock of all the services!!!

Posted by: aaron rosenberg at September 25, 2008 02:14 PM

30 years service ... and these are the worst uniforms that I've ever seen. I wonder why our brothers in arm (army, marine corps) look at the Air Force as a joke.

Posted by: Mark at September 25, 2008 02:11 PM

Why is that general's have got to continually mess with the uniform. The USAF dress blues that I wore in the 70's & 80's were great. Then they tried to make it look like a business suit and they ruined it. Now they want to go back to something from WW I. The USAF neds planes and people....NOT NEW UNIFORMS. The generals at the puzzle palace need to get their heads out of their butts!

Posted by: PR at September 25, 2008 02:09 PM

I don't know why we insist on wasting time and money constantly changing our uniforms.

First, WE HAVE MORE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES TO TAKE UP OUR TIME (like fighting and winning a war, maintaining our force, convincing our politicians to fund research and development of future aircraft and equipment, fixing our internal problems, welfare of our airmen, etc).

Second, this costs MONEY. Our budget has already been slashed beyond bare bones. How can our Air Force leaders even ponder shaving 125 MILLION DOLLARS from the mission in favor of "LOOKING STYLISH"? We could buy 15 MQ-9 Predator UAVs with that money to fight the War on Terror!

Third, the uniform is part of OUR TRADITION, and the men and women that wear the uniform should wear the same uniform that I wore and that the next generation will wear. The only acceptable reason for change is OPERATIONAL NECESSITY.

Fourth, and of least importance, that uniform is not practical, would be uncomfortable and extemely warm with that neckline, and it looks ridiculous.

I suggest that General Schwartz cut orders and send the staffers that worked up this proposal to Iraq and Afghanistan for a year. There, they will get some firsthand experience to "recage" their priorities. They've obviously been sitting in their air conditioned offices at the Pentagon for too long with too much time on their hands and have lost track of "the mission".

Posted by: Ralph1951 at September 25, 2008 01:57 PM

The best and most affordable way to "recreate" a "history uniform", is to simply return to the dress jacket the adornments that were on it from the 1920's thru WWII and into the very early 1950's. By this I mean, Right shoulder patches showing which AF a person is assigned to, The Command patch on the LEFT shoulder, the Service Stripes on the Left Sleeve and the Oversea Stripes on the Right Sleeve. We are derived from the U.S. Army Air Service/Corps/Forces, so our Tradition should REFLECT that and all it takes is to add these traditional items back on our current "bus driver" jacket to actually make it look not only MILITARY, but Traditional.

Posted by: JimM at September 25, 2008 01:56 PM

This "uniform" is just plain butt ugly! It looks like the wearers should be standing next to a Spad or Sopwith Camel, in Eddie Rickenbacker's Lafayette Escadrille. The best Air Force dress uniform ever was the one we wore BEFORE McPeak got his meathooks into the clothier business. They looked good, wore well, and were clearly a modern military uniform not a business suit. I spent 22 years in the Air Force, and one of the things that came out of that was the right to wear at appropriate occasions "either the uniform you retired in, or the current one." This includes at the time of my interment. If this is the approved uniform at the time of my demise, I can promise you that literally "I wouldn't be buried in it!"

Posted by: Mike at September 25, 2008 01:53 PM

What a JOKE!!!!!!!! Kind a looks like the jap uniforms from WWII

Posted by: Jesse E. Butler at September 25, 2008 01:52 PM

I've only got 1 thing to say for that pictured uniform: Star Wars Episode 4 - seriously, the geek in me is screaming, "no!" My father's uniform that he wore from 1972-1993 is the one I admire and the one I want to wear. Why would I want to wear something that screams 1970s nerd? What happened to the USAF's sense of tradition? (i.e. keeping things the same, "if it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT.")

Posted by: Luke Zimmerman at September 25, 2008 01:36 PM

This constant uniform change or name change has been going since the beginning. These are costly changes, and the malcontents don't care. If a change contributes to the mission, then OK. Otherwise NO! Most of these changes are pushed by some Pentagon type with his/her personal ax to grind.

Posted by: Chuck Leslie at September 25, 2008 01:35 PM

Integrity, Service, Excellence...I don't see it here. The only thing that is constant is change (for the better, I understand), but uniform changes produce "zero" impact towards mission, heritage, or focus. WHAT drives these changes? Seems there must be a lobbyist behind the scenes; the only ones comes out losers are the airman with less cash to spend on essentials (don't give lip-service that they receive uniform allowance, which don't cover the bill); the only WINNERS - are the retailers.

Posted by: Russell at September 25, 2008 01:32 PM

I have served 21 years in the air force and you have got to be kidding me with this crap! Are the individual on this board retarded.

Posted by: concerned vet at September 25, 2008 01:26 PM

Thank goodness that I can retire at my leisure and will not have to wear this joke of an AF uniform...please!!!!
Adopt the Army ACU material and put the ABU pattern on it for our brothers and sisters roasting in SW Asia. Lets look at what we need in the field instead what "people who need a job" are wanting us to wear state side.
Leave the dress blues alone...

Posted by: Scott at September 25, 2008 01:17 PM

The uniforms in the photo look ugly, and is laughably ridiculous.

I served in the AF 20 years from 1977 to 1997. In 1977 the dress uniform looked like a bus driver's. By 1997 we had a dress uniform that looked professional and business like but was still clearly military. Hopefully we don't go backwards!

Posted by: Mac McClellan at September 25, 2008 01:13 PM

You have got to be kidding...The dress blue uniform depicted is an absolute joke, starting with the bush-jacket style belt of the pre-vietnam khaki "505s" to the ridiculous high collar reminiscent of a bastard offspring of a marriage between a marine corps dress collar and a jehru jacket. Puleeeze. The dress uniform of the 70s and 80s was a very attractive but professional attire. Concentrate more on benefits, morale and family support and LEAVE THE UNIFORMS ALONE.

Posted by: John Messick at September 25, 2008 12:48 PM

After 20 years in the military I have to say this uniform is UGLY...To say the least. This looks like a uniform you would find on the French Foreign Legion in old movies. Why can't you just leave the uniform alone and get better use of "OUR" money. Do these people who are always trying to change our uniforms not have anything else to do. Let's give them a job, send them to IRAQ or Afganistan.

Posted by: Donna at September 25, 2008 12:45 PM

When I was in 1968 turu 72 I always had hoped our uniforms would be updated so we didnt look like mailmen.To my dismay the new ones look worse!Come on guys you can do better than that.This will not help our image.

Posted by: Jim Spanel at September 25, 2008 12:36 PM

I agree with TENNman's posting. I served from 1954 to 1976 and loved it! As General Macalfi said at Bastone, Franch, to the Germans "NUTS!"
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, GOD BLESS THE PRESIDENT and GOD BLESS THE USA!
MSG USAF Retired

Posted by: Dave Edmiston at September 25, 2008 12:33 PM

Please.please do not adopt that uniform !! It
looks to me like the old Army tunic of WW1 !!
Leave the dress uniform as it is ! The Air Force
doesnt need another bout of being a laughing stock !!

Posted by: Msgt R. Law (ret) at September 25, 2008 12:33 PM

You've got to be kidding! Doesn't the Air Force have better thing to do, like keeping track of their nukes, than changing uniforms again. Isn't about time USAF focuses on the mission and those bored, tired people that thought this up out to pasture? This smacks of an office trying to justify their job!

Posted by: John at September 25, 2008 12:22 PM

I have just finished reading the many comments on the proposed new uniform. I am struck by the almost total agreement that, "it sucks" I agree. With 30 years service from 1954 on, I have seen many changes to the uniform, some good, some really stupid.

With all of the negative press the Air Force leadership has "earned" in the near past, it makes me wonder what is going on at the top. It is scary when you put together a list of things that have happened over the past few short years that have had a negative impact on the Air Force leadership and indeed on the United States. Now this. The proposal for a new uniform is not in itself an earth shattering thing but it is indicitive of a self-serving mis-direction of priorities. With existing problems that are screaming to be fixed, surely the Brass has better things to do with their time. The mistakes made on the tanker deal alone cry out for immediate correction.

Since I retired in 1984, the uniform board has had a string of questionable inputs. For the sake of the troops, their pocketbooks and their image I hope we can settle down and adopt a uniform for the Air Force. We have a pretty decent one now so after all the more pressing problema are solved, then go for it.

Posted by: D.R. Carlton CMS (Ret) at September 25, 2008 12:17 PM

I really don't understand why we have to change our uniforms. The one that we wear right now are just fine. How many more millions of dollars we have to waist just because of these uniforms! And how many millions of dollars did the government just waisted because of the new ABU's and cound not even keep up of providing the cold weather parkas and the demands of the airmen. Some airmen are suffering in the cold weather regions because the air force could not provide the demands of these personnel. Why must every airmen suffer because of changing new styles for uniforms.

Posted by: Concerned NCO at September 25, 2008 12:15 PM

If the Air Force BDU is like the Army Combat Uniform you can't starch or dry clean it because it will tear it up. And at $80+ per set, they're a bit pricy to destroy. That being siad I don't like the proposed "dress" uniform either. It is sad. Leave the blue suit that my dad wore proudly for 30+ years alone.

Posted by: former dd at September 25, 2008 12:13 PM

This design of a new uniform makes me think that retired AF Chief of Staff, Gen Merrill (Tony) McPeak (McJerk) had something to do with the project. It's ridiculous

Posted by: John Atkinson at September 25, 2008 11:48 AM

Oh wow. Another uniform. In the late '50's we had a uniform so bad we burned them !! The Jungle outfits. Bush jackets, Bermuda shorts and socks in desert sand! The fatiuges were sage green and the legs were so huge you could take two steps before the back of the pants caught up with you.

Best uniform ever was the Ike Jacket ( I know it looked like Ralph Cramden ) but it was tidy!

This new abomination needs to scrapped . Period.
Hap Arnold was never really Air Force but Army to begin with. When I was a young Marine (Mid-fifties) the high collar was a pain and I suspect it will always be.

JD the Retired AF of 20 years.

Posted by: Gene Wright at September 25, 2008 11:42 AM

Oh wow. Another uniform. In the late '50's we had a uniform so bad we burned them !! The Jungle outfits. Bush jackets, Bermuda shorts and socks in desert sand! The fatiuges were sage green and the legs were so huge you could take two steps before the back of the pants caught up with you.

Best uniform ever was the Ike Jacket ( I know it looked like Ralph Cramden ) but it was tidy!

This new abomination needs to scrapped . Period.
Hap Arnold was never really Air Force but Army to begin with. When I was a young Marine (Mid-fifties) the high collar was a pain and I suspect it will always be.

JD the Retired AF of 20 years.

Posted by: Gene Wright at September 25, 2008 11:38 AM

one last comment, the new coat pictured, looks like you should have a tamborine in your hands, clapping and singing on a street corner. No disrespect for the salvation army.

Posted by: john w. at September 25, 2008 11:36 AM

The Air Force does not have one iota of tradition.consistantly changing uniforms and the brass worn on them. It is time to go back to the style of uniform and brass worn in the 70's no excess brass of what your career field is only subdued not glowing in the dark. The dark blue shirts with brass on the collar worn with a tie was an excellant uniform for cool days. thats all folks.

Posted by: john w. at September 25, 2008 11:34 AM

I know a lot of folks are up in arms over the new uniform and that we have more important things to be concerned with like winning the War on Terrorism. I would ask you to remember one thing. WE ARE NOT PERFECT. That's right. Neither you or I are perfect. Mistakes are made. We are professionals and should act as such. The uniform board is there for a reason. They have made choices and changes over the years that some of us have scratched our heads over, laughed at and asked, "Why?'. The fact of the matter is that the board will continue to do what the board does. It is up to us or rather those that are still serving, to do your job. If you are an airmen, then your job is to learn your craft and be the best at what you are paid to do. If you are an NCO then you are to do your job. TRAIN YOUR PEOPLE to be the best they can be. Do not worry about the uniform. It has and will always be changed according to whoever is in charge.

I'm sure the Army, Marine Corps, and Navy have changed their uniforms over the years. Simply go back and check your history books. I'm sure some sailor or soldier in the colonial army was happy when they did away with those short pants and long socks; coats that didn't quite close no matter how small your gut was.

The important thing in wearing any uniform is to wear it with all the pride that knowing you are the best at what you do. I have studied as a hobby military history and the one thing I have seen in many faces of pictures that exist of soldiers was the pride they had when they were getting their pictures taken. The pride that says, "I am an AMERICAN Soldier". Just look at many of the soldiers from the Civil War. Their faces as they sat for a portrait with their uniforms radiated pride. The uniform was nothing to be all that enthusiastic about, but they were proud to wear it anyway.

We need that same pride. Not because of the uniform itself, but all the work that made you worthy of being accepted into the ranks of those who selflessly gave the last full measure of devotion.

By remembering your oath to defend the constitution of the United States and not what your uniform looks like, you can then go on to do the job you VOLUNTEERED for. To protect those that cannot protect themselves. I did it for 26 years. Now it is up to those still serving to protect my family.

Now quit worrying about this nonsense and get back to work.

Posted by: MSGt, USAF Ret at September 25, 2008 11:25 AM

I agree that the last thing we need is a new uniform, although it makes sense that any changes should be BACK to the one that General McPeak scrapped. At least that one looked military.
On the other hand, after reading all of the posts attached to this article I find a recurring theme that bothers me. Many people refuse to acknowledge the contribution that the Air Force has made to this country. In refusing to recognize that contribution they either state that only the other services are worth anything or that the Air Force is a bunch of nonwarriors. Both are self-serving and irresponsible.
If I want to read so much non constructive illiterate drivel, I can read the blogs about John McCain by liberal extremists. If you truly value making the American military as good as it can be, at least try to respond responsibly.

MSgt Dennis Berger, USAF, Ret.

Posted by: Dennis Berger at September 25, 2008 11:20 AM

Per Posted by: Larney McGrath at September 25, 2008 10:36 AM
I am glad someone has finally mentioned the fact of the USAF dropping scouts-FAC's during a "trying time in our History". Wasn't a lot of training then and as Larry says-OJT>

Posted by: T. Harmon at September 25, 2008 11:13 AM

I don't know why we insist on wasting time constantly changing our uniforms.

First, WE HAVE CRITICALLY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO OCCUPY OUR TIME (like the War on Terror, maintaining our force, fighting Congress to fund research and development of future aircraft and equipment, fixing our internal problems, etc).

Second, this costs MONEY! Our budget is already too small to ensure we can continue to "FIGHT AND WIN". How can our Air Force leaders even ponder shaving 125 MILLION DOLLARS from that mission in favor of "LOOKING STYLISH"? That would be a CRIMINAL waste of the taxpayers' money.

Third, our uniform is PART OF OUR TRADITION, and the men and women that wear the uniform should wear the same uniform that I wore and that their children will wear. The only accepatable reason for change is OPERATIONAL necessity.

Fourth, and of least importance, in my opinion that uniform looks ridiculous, would be uncomfortable and would be extemely warm with that kind of neckline.

General Schwartz has the right idea: STAY FOCUSED ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS!

Posted by: Ralph1951 at September 25, 2008 11:12 AM

Wow, that is different.. I like the collar, the belt should be similar to the black belt of the Marines or leave out the belt all together. The tunic should be a darker blue, not the old gray blue of the past.

It reminds me of the old WWII German military tunic, all you need is the high black boots.

Needs work..give me a call if you need help..

Posted by: Dario at September 25, 2008 11:10 AM

U-G-L-Y
You ain't got no alibi,
You Ugly!
Yeah, yeah, You Ugly!

Posted by: Charlie Holmes

I couldn't have said it better! Of course now this little ditty is going to be my first thought whenever I see it again, thanks!

Posted by: Charlie Holmes at September 25, 2008 08:14 AM

Posted by: T.S. at September 25, 2008 11:10 AM

It looks more "militery" than the current one now which looks just like a business man's dress blazer. I like the pockets & the belt however the collar riding up the neck looks uncompfortable & rather ugly. Put a normal flap collar on it...& it will look good like the one Johnny Cash sported in the 1950's which looked great.

Posted by: Justin at September 25, 2008 11:08 AM

The problem is not the uniform--yes it's bad, just like all the unnecessary uniform changes of the past--but the problem is the culture that exists at the officer level.

For years the Air Force has prided itself on producing intelligent officers with little or no sense of AF history or actual leadership ability. Some may argue that young leaders-to-be are actually products of society and must be groomed and mentored to become successful AF officers.

But how is that supposed to happen when those that rise through the ranks (pilots) to become staff officers and commanders have very little if no contact with NCO's and Airmen throughout their formative years. Then once they get into supreme leadership positions people wonder how they can be so out of touch with what's really going on. Add to that the "old boy" network of taking care of one another and promoting their screw-ups instead of kicking them out and you have the perfect recipe for this type of nonsense.

The USAF really needs a paradigm shift and a return to an integrity and honor based system of values but it has to start at the top first. Start grooming some of the special ops officers to be in leaderhip positions and put some of the pilots out to pasture and/or let them do what they love best...fly,fly,fly and be in charge of nothing but themselves. I bet you would see some changes.

Did 26-years and fought every day against this type of "bucket-on-the-head, I can't see the forest for the trees mentality" and found it wearisome...but it is what it is.

"Oderint Dum Metuant...Let them hate so long as they fear"

Posted by: Gym Steel at September 25, 2008 11:07 AM

It the new jackets were brown, I'd swear I saw Black Jack Pershing in the flesh!! The high collar has to go - please don't mess with the unforms now. I believe our men and women in the US Air Force has more important things to consider and do than be sidelined by a uniform change. Keep up the wonderful service you are providing for our country.

Posted by: Gary Webster at September 25, 2008 11:07 AM

If someone wanted to look like a Marine, they should have joined the Marine Corps. Get those generals out of the uniform business and leave the uniform alone.

Posted by: Jerry at September 25, 2008 10:59 AM

I enlisted in the AF in the mid 70s. Instead of Hap Arnold, some genius decided to bring back the "Ike jacket" then. We all were issued them even though no one wanted to wear it. The thing just hung in my closet for several years until my enlistment was up, so I tossed it along with several other useless items. On my final day of outprocessing, some clerk in supply charged me $80 bucks because the Ike jacket was an accountable item. I always shake my head every time the AF comes out with a new plan to fix their adopted Army uniform and create something that represents an independant air and space force...hmmm, how about spandex?

Posted by: Thom at September 25, 2008 10:58 AM

I retired almost ten years age and have seen a few new remakes of the uniform. I remember the old 1505 for a work uniform and the "Blues" for dress. What is the new commander trying to do make us look like we have gone "back to the future"? Jackets, pants, belts, strips and hats do not make an Air Force great. It's the personnel. Stop making our people uncomfortable in there dress and a show place for the next General to change. For many years we were identified by the person in the cloths not the close on the person. We were proud of the uniform we wore and more proud to show it off. Why make this a clothing war? Retain a military look and we will look good for the military.

Posted by: Darrell Edgecomb at September 25, 2008 10:58 AM

Heinous! The Air Force dress uniform has never been anything but ugly!!!

Here’s a hint for all branches of the service! We have been at war for a decade in the Middle East. What we need least is new uniforms. For the AF, there should only be two uniform options:

BDU – Desert Camouflage since we seem to spend most of our time over there. Summer and winter weight with appropriate accessories for different climatic conditions. Everybody wears this uniform!

Flight Suit – The best suit I wore was the CWU-27/P. The worse suit I wore was the one with the side zippers designed by some stupid general nuisance (I mean genreal officer).

NO DRESS BLUES. Waste of time and money for most of us…We are in the military, not in a corporation!

Need a dress uniform? Iron your BDUs!!!!!!

Posted by: SAC_Instructor_Boom at September 25, 2008 10:55 AM

First, this is not the correct version of the new coat they are testing. The new coat is 90% the same as the coat that was worn up until McPeak gave us the business coat. Second, the Air Force is not spending Billions or even Millions on this test. In fact, from what I was told by the Uniform Office the cost is less than $100,000 to design and test this new coat!! The $125 Mill they are reffering to will be what the cost to mass produce...then they put them on the shelves for me and you to pay for them.

Are we not the military? Aren't we suppose to have a military looking uniform. All the other branches have uniforms that are similiar to the coat that is actually being tested (again, not the one shown above). No, we're all just happy and fine with the business suit. I joined the military for the image we hold, not to be confused with an airline pilot. We don't need something functional (that is what the ABU is for) just something that gives us that military look when we have to get dressed up. Give all of us a military looking coat now!!

Posted by: Corey at September 25, 2008 10:48 AM

What an ugly dress jacket. People who have to wear the uniform (and pay for it) should enjoy wearing it to some degree, shouldn't they? There was nothing wrong with the existing uniforms when I retired two years ago. This is an example of people with too much time on their hands who spend too much time in air-conditioned offices and not enough time doing a real job to support the mission. Quit indulging the people keep coming up with this stuff, leave the uniforms alone and spend the time and money in a more professional manner.

Posted by: Karl at September 25, 2008 10:47 AM

I think the AF has a lot more to worry about than new tweaks to a uniform. Let's start with some ethics training. Then let's work on that "we don't care about the nukes" problem. After we get that one done, let's see if the Chief's staff can actually conduct a legal, fair and open competition for a new weapons system (it's still in doubt in my mind).

After we get those little things done, let's get McPeak to bring his designers back in and saddle all the active, guard and reserve members with new bills to pay for some new unis!!

Posted by: curmudgeon10 at September 25, 2008 10:47 AM

First, this is not the correct version of the new coat they are testing. The new coat is 90% the same as the coat that was worn up until McPeak gave us the business coat. Second, the Air Force is not spending Billions or even Millions on this test. In fact, from what I was told by the Uniform Office the cost is less than $100,000 to design and test this new coat!!

Are we not the military? Aren't we suppose to have a military looking uniform. All the other branches have uniforms that are similiar to the coat that is actually being tested (again, not the one shown above). No, we're all just happy and fine with the business suit. I joined the military for the image we hold, not to be confused with an airline pilot. We don't need something functional (that is what the ABU is for) just something that gives us that military look when we have to get dressed up. Give all of us a military looking coat now!!

Posted by: Corey at September 25, 2008 10:40 AM

I wonder if the jack boots that must come with this proposed uniform can stand the rigors of flightline aircraft maintenance? Weapons loaders could use such boots to hold their expended cart punches, rather like boot knives. Seriously, if we want to honor Hap Arnold and his acheivements through our uniforms than we sould use the uniform he wore during his greatest triumph. I am talking about the WW II Army Air Corp "pinks and greens" That was a practical and sharp looking service uniform. Perhaps Airmen would be authorized to wear the classic "50 Mission" service cap without the grommet. That would be rather cool. I digress. In my opinion the Air Force has more important things to do than to imitate airline pilots or doughboys. Lets get serious about defending this country and spend our money to address real personnel problems.

Posted by: Steve Bray at September 25, 2008 10:40 AM

I served from 61 to 94 in the USAF. Yes I have seen uniform changes. But all I see is upper level ego problems, this is the only way they can leave a visable mark on their time as BOSS. The best uniforms I ever wore was in the 60's sun tan 1505's for warm weather and the blues for dress. As one NCO has written and training for battle I was one that was drop in the jungle with no training or what to expect. I am glad I was in scouting because what I had learned came handy. Only to be told when I returned to CONUS I was on the list to go to jungle training I infromed them I took the OJT course and made out alive. Lets move forward and spend my tax do people, parts, and training and put your ego in your pocket and move on.

Posted by: Larney McGrath at September 25, 2008 10:36 AM

Plain and simply...lose the belt, and the pockets, except for a top pocket...just like an actual suit would look.

Posted by: Laval Smith at September 25, 2008 10:35 AM

After reading through virtually ALL of the comments on this, "cough cough", new uniform design, I can only echo, that which has been said by virtually everyone....Someone has too much time on their hands, there is no need for a uniform change, use the money for equipment, training, and supporting the lower enlisted ranks. How many times are we going to change uniform design, change chevron design, change jacket design, change BDU colors before we realize that someone should be concentrating on where our nukes are going when they are airborne!!! Sheesh people..Where is true leadership...It's definitely needed from the TOP and down. Senior NCO's, where are your voices when needed? Guys, my beloved Air Force has many needs, but a new uniform isn't one of them. I hope it all can be stopped NOW!!

Posted by: Pat Northern, 1st Sgt Retired at September 25, 2008 10:35 AM

I retired from the Air Force 7 years ago. After seeing a picture of the proposed uniform jacket, I am so glad I don't have put up with such stupid ideas. The new jacket, without a doubt, is the ugliest uniform item I have ever seen! Dump it in the trash and keep the current style.
The uniforms are fine. Spend the money for more and better body armor for our troops. Now THAT is a good idea.

Posted by: Brian at September 25, 2008 10:34 AM

Not only is this a huge waste of money and time, but we have already screwed up with the ABU uniform change. Whoever approved the ABU uniform must sit in a nice comfy office in North Dakota somewhere. Next time you approve a daily wear uniform try wearing it in the desert or in the South duing August first then see if you really want to wear it. The ABU is horribly hot and stupid looking, as is this uniform.

Posted by: Greg at September 25, 2008 10:33 AM

Unbelievable! let's see, to go along with these uniforms we can't forget the leggings and campaign hats. Oh, yes, and the "Sam Brown" belts, of course. When I was on active duty in the late '60s I was really proud of my uniform. It had some similarities to the Army but that was OK. I always though if they wanted to make a change, they should put a stripe down the pant leg of officers' uniforms. Then McPeak came out with the drab Navy/airline pilot uniform and scrapped the garrison (saucer) cap (except for the high ranking officers)leaving that hideous flight cap. Now some other high ranking officer wants to make his mark on the Air Force with another silly looking uniform. Well, if it's the dress uniform you can be damned sure a lot of airmen won't be going to formal Air Force dinners if they have to wear that costume. (Is it true the Air Force is going to bi-wing fighters and bombers?)

Posted by: Tad O at September 25, 2008 10:32 AM

Lets get new tankers, and other modern useful equipment so we can do our jobs. That will make us look good instead of changing uniforms every few years.

Posted by: John at September 25, 2008 10:27 AM

I agree with an earlier comment. From the uniforms to the way we are choosing our officer and enlisted leadership. The Air Force is undergoing a shit-storm of stupidity. Start promoting leaders instead of kiss-a?;ers and it will eventually straighten itself out.

Posted by: Randy at September 25, 2008 10:26 AM

Good on Gen Schwartz for putting mission first!! Hope the rest of the AF leadership gets the message and focuses on getting Airmen what they really need to do their jobs - training, equipment, etc... - NOT a new uniform.

Posted by: Bulldawg at September 25, 2008 10:26 AM

I joined the Air Force in 1957 and retired in 1977. With this country deeply in debt; what wrong with the Air Force leadership. This proposed uniform is as waste of desparately needed funds. Remember the bush jacket, short pants. I was in Washington DC and very concerned when we pulled Presidential parades (Navy, Army, and Marines all looked professional, we looked like jungle hunters) with outrageous uniforms. At some point kaki's were the uniform of the day for official parade ceremonies.

Posted by: Al at September 25, 2008 10:26 AM

It is totally embarassing that the Department of the Air Force entertaining, yet again, the thought of changing the serice dress uniform. It's quite hilarious, to say the least! It is yet another feable attempt to keep up with the trends of the sister services, must like the "silly" PT uniform, that doesn't "breathe", glows in the dark, and is mandatory wear in, of all places, deployed combat zones!! USAF officials should realize that our service has more pressing matters than a "pretty" uniform. With "live nukes" flying across the continental U.S., military meembers sleeping in silos, nuclear fuses being given to foreign nations, and the firing of the previous SECAF and CSAF, a new uniform should be the LAST thing entertained by USAF.

Posted by: Patriot at September 25, 2008 10:26 AM

How sad! Boy it appears that someone in the A/F does not have very much to do so they are AGAIN changing the Class A uniform. Why on earth would they want a change and why to that kind of uniform? This is surely a sign of bigger problems within the service. Changing the uniform to a Zoot Suit will NOT improve moral nor will it make everyone want to wear it at every opportunity. What it will do however, is foster the creativeness of those in the A/F today to figure out reasons why NOT to wear it. Another great waste of money. I see there are still those in the ranks of the A/F who have forgotten the saying, “if it is not broke, don’t fix it�! What will they think of next? Hair cuts with a part down the middle?

The USAF should focus on being original with a touch of class on their uniform. Trying to mimic another services uniform is a slap at both services. This uniform is embarrassing and did not have forethought nor planning. Whomever is in charge of this must work for the same folks who are trying to buy the next tanker and are responsible for the nuclear blunders of late. Isn’t there ANYTHING the USAF of today can do right the first time out? I miss my years (20+) in the USAF but I would not like to be in uniform today. There is no doubt there is no leadership and the Chiefs are not speaking up when they should. Could this be the demise of a once great service?

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 25, 2008 10:25 AM

Look JCS cut the crap on the new uniforms our troops need more equiptment, personal, and hardware. I spent 24 years in and when I made NCO I made sure my trrop under me had the eqpt. to do the jub. If they didn't I would find a way to get it even if I had to beg borrow or liberate it. As for the upper management you have allot to learn about the NCO corp. When my son made butter bar he ask'ed me how to learn the field he was going in and I told him to get with the oldest NCO in the outfit and say sarg teach me but you be responcable for the for the things you do. Protect your men. Scrap the uniform change we need EQPTMENT!

Posted by: Carl Bodin at September 25, 2008 10:25 AM

After 22 years of wearing the Air Fors blues, this proposed new style looks ugly.Back in the 50s we were known as "Bus Drivers", I wonder what the new phrase would be ?? Forget the idea and get back to the basics and save the money for something useful.

Posted by: David Kosik at September 25, 2008 10:23 AM

Look JCS cut the crap on the new uniforms our troops need more equiptment, personal, and hardware. I spent 24 years in and when I made NCO I made sure my trrop under me had the eqpt. to do the jub. If they didn't I would find a way to get it even if I had to beg borrow or liberate it. As for the upper management you have allot to learn about the NCO corp. When my son made butter bar he ask'ed me how to learn the field he was going in and I told him to get with the oldest NCO in the outfit and say sarg teach me but you be responcable for the for the things you do. Protect your men. Scrap the uniform change we need EQPTMENT!

Posted by: Carl Bodin at September 25, 2008 10:19 AM

Being retired USAF this is a joke. What is the Air Force suppose to look like Marines? Quit screwing with the uniform. McPeek screwed it up once before. Look at the Marines they have had the same uniform for years and it is a tradition. I don't even recognize the service I served in with this silly ass uniform. Plus the money could be better spent on other things for a quality force.

Posted by: Domo at September 25, 2008 10:18 AM

Come on Top Hats, what in the world do you have on your minds? It obviously isn't a decent uniform. May I ask, Please be honest, What is wrong with the current uniform? I served from Korea through Viet Nam. I see nothing bad with the dress uniform. Also, I have purchased one of the current Field jackets and find it crappy compared to the one we had during my service. Be honest with the Citizens, we don't need a new Dress Uniform.

Posted by: WAArnold at September 25, 2008 10:18 AM

I've been in the Air National Guard 26 years. I have to say with the current state of our economy, The threat of massive cuts in our rank structure in the guard, and not enought money for parts,equipment and training. The new uniform is a waist of money. Obviously, this is being pushed by a bunch of desk jockeys who need a good OPR bullet and spend a great deal of time in their blues. I spend my time in a flight suit delivering the beans,bullets,bombs,and band-aids that our warfighters depend on. I currently have a dress blue coat with all my pretty ribbons on it hanging neatly in a garment bag. I rarely have an occasion to wear it. This uniform issue is really a NON issue. Let's move on...

PROUDLY Serving since 1982.....

Posted by: Chris at September 25, 2008 10:16 AM

How sad! Boy it appears that someone in the A/F does not have very much to do so they are AGAIN changing the Class A uniform. Why on earth would they want a change and why to that kind of uniform? This is surely a sign of bigger problems within the service. Changing the uniform to a Zoot Suit will NOT improve moral nor will it make everyone want to wear it at every opportunity. What it will do however, is foster the creativeness of those in the A/F today to figure out reasons why NOT to wear it. Another great waste of money. I see there are still those in the ranks of the A/F who have forgotten the saying, “if it is not broke, don’t fix it�! What will they think of next? Hair cuts with a part down the middle?

Posted by: Reader Bob at September 25, 2008 10:14 AM

Instead of trying the dress of the Air Force you should be adressing the spirit of the Airmen.

Posted by: Carol Akal ex Sgt at September 25, 2008 10:08 AM

The suggested uniform does not portray a professional image since it looks more like a Halloween joke. Other services have traditions, but we (Air Force) want to change tradition almost yearly. A little common sense is really needed at the upper echelons to get rid of this ridiculous looking "uniform".

Posted by: Joyce, Retired CMSgt at September 25, 2008 10:07 AM

ATTENTION AIR FORCE LEADERSHIP..... PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES... PLEASE!!!!!!

Gen McPeak was and is a FUCTARD!! What a waste of stars!!

Why are we considering spending $125 MILLION on a new dress jacket? What's wrong with the dress jacket we have now? Didn't we spending enough money on changing from BDU's to ABU's? And was that really necessary?? HELLO!! We have a WAR going on, and all I hear about is that we don't have enough money for training and equipment to use for THIS endeavor. I'm tired of all the irresponsible, unnecessary, and wasteful spending by our leadership. Too bad our leadership isn't elected into office... wouldn't that be nice!

Unfortunitely, this comment will not be seen by our current leadership... too bad! WE are the voice and future leaders of our military.

Maybe, those of us still serving will rise to these leadership levels and remember these moments and comments, and make the right decisions that need to be made.

Our leadership needs to focus on the current priorities... the WAR, Training, Equipment, Manpower, Deployments, Benefits, ...etc.

JUST SAY "NO" TO WASTEFUL AND UNNECESSSARY SPENDING!!

Posted by: DESERT WARRIOR at September 25, 2008 10:07 AM

What are we doing? Are we looking back or moving forward? This is just plain stupid. It makes absolutely no sense. If this uniform is adopted and put into service, the AF will lose many good people. (Maybe that is their new way of forcing people out, Hmmm) I think the people who thought of this new uniform have too much time on their hands. Get back to work and do your job instead of wasting my taxpayer dollars.

Posted by: Paul at September 25, 2008 10:02 AM

As a retired First Sgt. I feel sorry for today's First Sgt's trying to keep the troops straight but to add this stupid and ugly iniform is just one more pain for the Squadron Commander and First Sgt. Remember the other top coat with a belt some people looked bad with that one. Even the male model in this picture looks silly with the belt. We have better things to worry about than a uniform change (Again and again) PS How many uniform changes has the other services made

Posted by: Art Keinath at September 25, 2008 10:02 AM

I agree w/ all the retired folks out there that do not like the way it looks and the money that will be spent! I don't want to say too much, BUT give us Airmen a break. I thought a belt was made to hold pants up or things closed that did NOT have buttons.

Very Respectfully,

Posted by: B at September 25, 2008 09:57 AM

I was shocked when I first looked at the pic of the proposed uniforms. Now I am laughing....surely this is a joke? I remember the short lived "ice cream" man suit (white) brought in by Gabrial for a year or so. It was a waste of my money. McPeak did his airline pilot thing...now this. Agree with the other comments about the Chief trying to leave his mark. Why not fix the bigger problems that have put the AF in the dog house. The other Services will love this!I am glad I retired when I did so I won't have to wear this silly suit.

Posted by: JW at September 25, 2008 09:56 AM

When I retired 6 years ago I was really missing no longer being a part of our proud Air Force. Seeing this has changed my mind drastically. I would be ashamed to go outside if I had to wear this hedious looking uniform. Another proposed change to the service dress!!! Not what we need right now. This is rediculous.

Posted by: Rob Phillips (USAF Retired) at September 25, 2008 09:49 AM

As a former Captain in the USAF, I was proud of the uniform we wore in the late 50's and 1960's. But this new uniform looks stupid. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Posted by: Ben at September 25, 2008 09:48 AM

I spent years 52 to 56 in the Air Force. During
that time frame we had the Ike jacket along with the blouse. This new uniform look very ugly. I would not want to wear it.

Posted by: al joseph at September 25, 2008 09:41 AM

Ugly - Ugly - Ugly

Posted by: Beth at September 25, 2008 09:35 AM

RIGHT OUT OF STAR WARS . ALL THEY NEED IS THE MATCHING HELMENT.THE U.S.A.F. STAR TROOPERS.

Posted by: frank garrick at September 25, 2008 09:27 AM

I joined the AF in 1965. We had sensible uniform then I guess more time was spent in those days fighting wars and watching developments in the Soviet Union. Now, these nerds with MBAs who lead the AF having nothing better to do then come up with these totally ridiculous uniform ideas!!From what I've seen relative to the Hap Arnold Coat is laughable in the extreme. The other services will have a field day laughing at the AF if this uniform is accepted!! Here's an idea, if you really need a new, distinctive uniformer, go back and dig up the 1505 lightweight summer uniform. I still think those were the coolest uniforms!!

CJohnson

Posted by: CJohnson at September 25, 2008 09:16 AM

Pardon me, but didn't the Air Force just go through a complete FUBAR in dress uniform design. Have the "powers above" decided they don't like looking like a commercial airline pilot anymore? How many times will good money be spent to redesign the dress uniform? I admit this one has some style....some tradition (looks like WWI dress uniforms) and some appeal. Let's pick out a design and stick with it....you can't build traditions on uniforms that change every 10 years.

Posted by: Doc at September 25, 2008 09:15 AM

The problems isn't about the uniform. Where did it all go wrong? Who was watching the gate? Our leadership has been replaced by a bunch of politicians. We as service members promised we would never allow it to happen. Senior Noncommissioned Officers, who want stand for anything, but would rather fall for everything. Junior Officers who want be mentored and disrespectful towards the NCO corp. So we shouldn't be upset/shocked when they become leaders and make BAD decisions. The USAF has cut the enlisted personnel requirements so deep over the pass 15 years that it will take at least 15 years of regluing to get the service back to center. I know the Air Force needs to modernize, but our leadership primary problem that must be addressed and not pushed aside is Personnel. Not only getting the right people in the right jobs, but getting back to the basic. Training, supervisory training, on-the-job training, leadership, values and team building. We have lost our focus and our vision. There is no need for new ideas, when the old one worked so well. We could work with less if the personnel we were left with were properly trained, motivated and respected from Airman Basic to Flag Officer

Posted by: millerhank at September 25, 2008 09:12 AM

all this uniform needs is a george lucas star wars helment. what are they thinging.then they can call us THE USAF BLUE VADERS. my years served 1963-1967

Posted by: frank garrick at September 25, 2008 09:10 AM

Those "boys" drawing attention is fine and good, but those "boys" don't have a belly to hide behind that belt... The AF as a whole needs work.

Posted by: TX ROMAD at September 25, 2008 09:00 AM

NOTE TO THE USAF:

Leadership needs to look at the message being sent, not changing the looks of the message time after time!

Posted by: 66panhead at September 25, 2008 08:59 AM

I LIKE the uniforms. That was one thing I was not thrilled about was the Dress Blue's jacket. As a woman, they were built for one body style, which was box-shaped. I was always proud to wear it, but some women looked terrible in it.(myself included). I do agree with the belt comment, for those of us with a bit of a stomach, that would just make it more obvious. And Yes, it does resemble the Marine Corps but, after having been active duty AF then A Marine wife,I would prefer that the AF take some tips from them, the boys in a USMC dress uniform draw alot of attention in the crowd. Sorry boys, it's true.

Posted by: Denise at September 25, 2008 08:57 AM

My Goodness - I'm glad I'm retired - cause I'd have a hard time wearing this. Let's see, looks like Hitler's, Mussolini's, and the Chinese. Are these made in China like our jump boots were? Shame on the People At The Top! I guess this is one way to "tighten up" the Weight Mgmt program? Tomorrow I will be standing a Flag Line with the Patriot Guard Riders for Sgt Bell, killed in Afghanistan. Let's spend the money and get these men & women back home where they belong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Maureen McNamara at September 25, 2008 08:57 AM

I say fire 'em all! I would like to see your practical Captains and NCO's run the air force for a year or two... the trouble is thatit would make too much sense.

Posted by: TX ROMAD at September 25, 2008 08:54 AM

Klink, you idiot!

Posted by: Todd at September 25, 2008 08:51 AM

Great WWI uniform. Another step backwards like McPeak. A waste of money at time AF needs for combat equipment more important.

Posted by: 0-5 at September 25, 2008 08:49 AM

Bombs and Bullets... But the chief won't be reading this thread any time soon... too bad, because this is the best feedback from his airmen he'll ever find.

Posted by: TX ROMAD at September 25, 2008 08:49 AM

The Hap Arnold service dress uniform is indicative of a perpetual problem that plagues the service I proudly served in for 23 years and it continues today 14 years after I have retired. A "snappy suit" does not make a warrior, it never has and never will. Likewise this fixation on a "snappy suit" shows a lack of leadership and projects an image of insecurity to our sister services. I bet the Commandant of the Marine Corps is laughing himself silly as he looks at this latest fashion failure of the junior service. The Chief of Staff needs to focus everyone on being ready to fight on multiple fronts and for fixing the nuclear safety debacle due to the ineptitude of the fighter jocks at ACC as well as a new Cold War with Russia and China. General Schwartz could put this uniform garbage to bed by simply saying: "Uniform change? No Sir! Not on my watch!"

Posted by: Robert Bonds, Maj, USAF, Ret. at September 25, 2008 08:46 AM

STOP THE MADNESS! Yes, the Air Force needs MANPOWER, TANKERS (Built in the USA) and next generation FIGHTERS- not some ridiculous uniform change, which by the way is obviously for the worse. Hell, ask the distinguished Airman who served when that style was in use- Bet they HATED IT! We currently have a very professional looking Service Dress uniform. We've got a WAR to fight!

Posted by: Anthony Victoria at September 25, 2008 08:45 AM

Being in the USAF, I wish our leadership would quit making costly and unnecessary uniform changes. While I might not particulary like the current service dress - I liked the one before McPeak - it isn't so messed up that we need to invest time and moeny to change it. Fix the PT gear? Yes. Correct the mistakes made with the ABU and the accompanying APEC jacket? Yes, please. Overhaul the service dress? No, thank you. I put that jacket on about once a year. It isn't great, but it isn't so bad that I want anybody spending any time or money on it either. My budget for training and equipment will take a 9% hit this coming fiscal year. Let's stop spending money on this unnecessary endeavor and put those dollars where they're needed.

Posted by: Eric at September 25, 2008 08:45 AM

Merrill McPeak was the worse thing that happened to the Air Force! I retired last year after spending 21 years affiliated with the Air Force, with 4 years active and 17 with the ANG. The uniform changes need to happen, but only when other priorities have been met! Take care of the problems that are out there flapping in the breeze, focus your sights on the target instead of trying to fix something that ain't broke! Too many of the wrong peoples pockets are being padded by this type of shenanigans....Lets get real here folks, the military should not be considered a fashion show, say every 5 years or so....it costs the Air Force, the Airmen and the taxpayers alot of money!

Posted by: 66panhead at September 25, 2008 08:45 AM

I just went through the list of comments, and it seems that nobody is listening to them. I've seen a lot of these wasteful changes that have occured throughout my time in the Air Force both active and reserve. When we upgrade the avionics systems on the C-5 aircraft and don't buy enough antennas to fix the problems that come up too soon from this "lemon" system, something is very wrong. I know as well as everyone else making these comments that nothing well ever change, but this uniform change, again, is just another example of someones dream that has turned into a nightmare. It needs to stop. In todays economy and no end in sight with the direction it continues to head, this does'nt seem very wise to continue to spend the BILLION's of dollars on another wastefull dream, which only hurts the young airmen coming through the ranks. Maybe we could go into these conference rooms and take out all the fine leather back chairs and mohagony tables and replace them with the good old meatal folding the continue to show up at these people's retirements and sell them on E-bay.

Posted by: Carl Bresette at September 25, 2008 08:43 AM

More bombs. More bullets. More money spent on people and technology to get those two things on target accurately and efficiently.

P.S. The desk jockey making our blues and "tactical" uniforms has no idea the meaning of the words "functional" and "practical". What a shit storm of stupidity!

Posted by: TX ROMAD at September 25, 2008 08:43 AM

What's up with that Nehru collar?

Posted by: Rico at September 25, 2008 08:42 AM

The only thing "traditional" about AF uniforms is the "tradition" of constant fiddling with the design!
After 47 a blue dress uniform was adopted (wool)along with the long sleeve kakis. Cooler heads (pun intended) prevailed in the late 50's and a tropical worsted dress uniform (style the same just a material change)along with the short sleeve 505s were adopted. Eventually a short sleeve powder blue shirt appeared...all changes a plus for comfort and ease of maintenance. During this time several items were dropped including the 'Ike" jacket due to the "image" driven Uniform Board...a peacetime military became older, more sedentary and exhibited physiques the "Ike" jacked failed to flatter. I'll differ comment of the "mess" of the Mess Dress to others.
A change of focus is needed here!

USAF(Ret) 1954-1985

Posted by: G Douglass at September 25, 2008 08:41 AM

Over the past few years every time I needed something for my troops the standard answer was we don't have the money. Now the Air Force is thinking of spending millions on new uniforms.
What a joke!!!! I enlisted in 65 and there was nothing wrong with the uniform then, I was proud to wear it and for the life of me cannot see why it had to be changed. Let's get real Uniform Board. Just a case of to many people with to much time on their hands.
CCMsgt John Geremia (RET)

Posted by: John Geremia at September 25, 2008 08:37 AM

After looking at that picture....I'm so glad that I'm retired! Why does senior leadership continue to change the uniform when there are so many more issues that need to be dealt with? More manpower, deployments, benefits, equipment....

Posted by: Chief Deb at September 25, 2008 08:36 AM

Nasty. Looks like a doorman in a NYC hotel - or worse - a Nazi stooge.

Bring back the 50s-60s style. Even the USAFA uniforms of the 80s are WAY better.

Posted by: Former USAFA at September 25, 2008 08:35 AM

What has happened to my Air Force. Where are its priorities. That is the silliest looking uniform I have ever seen. There were days on the flight line in Southeast Asia when I would have settled for jeans and a t-shirt and a broad brimmed hat. Gimme a break ... a dress uniform is the last issue we need to worry over right now. How about parts, new hardware (tankers, fighters, and ground support vehicles), up-to-date training, and a serious look at strategy.
Jay C. Pierson, SMSGT (Ret)

Posted by: Jay Pierson at September 25, 2008 08:34 AM

I am a retired USAF 0-5 who happens to also be the proud son of a highly decorated Marine Aviator. In entry 2 at the top of this string, "WEB" wrote: “Gen McPeak was an idiot… and that changing the uniform broke with tradition.� I could not agree more! This uniform switch was a factor in my retiring sooner than I ever anticipated. Why? Because I raised my right hand and swore an oath to serve my country wearing a USAF uniform, but when Mc Peak decided to “leave his mark� (aka scar) on the USAF by having us all switch over to some bastardized cross between a commercial airline pilot and a Navy uniform, I decided I had enough “failed leadership�, and punched out.

The reason we as a service have such an identity problem I believe is due to our leadership, or more accurately stated, the lack of leadership. Our Chiefs all seem to want to “leave a mark on the Air Force� and secure their place in the history books for themselves. But instead of providing the kind of bold and innovative leadership that moves us ahead in the eyes of our own people, and cause us to remember them for what they gave us in terms of a sense of who an what we are (the world’s preeminent aviation corps), they instead focus on something "easy" and "visible"….. like the uniform.

Examine if you will the United States Marine Corps. They “considered� changing the SNCO Dress Blue Uniform, but it was shot down. Congratulations USMC! Don’t change the distinctive uniform that defines who and what you are. God Bless the Corps for having the good sense to abandon such foolishness.

A message from this old “blue suiter� to our leadership, present and future: If you want to leave your “personal mark� on our branch of service, then please be our standard bearer. Embrace, teach and preserve through your actions and deeds OUR values and TRADITIONS so all our airmen can see what than really means. Help us focus and build upon our past, and don’t try so hard to change our future. Our brothers and sisters in the other services know this to be true………..it is the past that give you the foundation for any future…….just ask anyone wearing a globe and anchor what is means to them to be called a “Marine�. When our leadership brings each of us to respond as passionately about being called “Airman�, then they will have made their mark our service for all the right reasons.

Posted by: Lowlife at September 25, 2008 08:33 AM

It's simple really: my service coat was issued 13 years ago and it still fits. I DO NOT want to buy another one before I retire. Expecially considering that I've only worn it on a handful of special occasions over the course of those 13 years. Leave the coat alone and attend to more important things.

Fokker, out.

Posted by: Anonymous at September 25, 2008 08:31 AM

I have to agree with the majority commentors. Leave the blues alone and spend the money on important things like spare parts and newer support equipment for maintenance. Better yet,take the attitude of the marines. If you want a set of blues let the individual go out and buy them. I served 31 years and the only time I wore my blues was when I went to a funeral or when the commander mandated a blues uniform inspection. The proposed new uniform not only resembles a Nazi uniform but it looks just down right stupid. It absolutely amazes me that there are people being paid to screw things up. If it's not broken don't fix it.

Posted by: SMSgt Rick Hart at September 25, 2008 08:28 AM

This is a sad commentary on management gone bad. We need to reorganize the Air Force from the top down, eliminating a lot of commanders with too much time on their hands.

Go back to the 1505's and blues that were blues. Stop trying to look like something out of 10 penny opera.

Let's put our effort into airplanes.

Posted by: MSgt G M Brown at September 25, 2008 08:21 AM

That uniform looks like its straight out of WWI, so when do we mothball the F-22 and fire up the Sopwith Camels? (Even Goering would giggle under his breath, but quietly!)

Posted by: Rich at September 25, 2008 08:20 AM

Norty; you are the man...this new uniform proposal was a joke...Our former CSAF was living in the past just like our current CMSAF; who I believe should had resigned just like his two bosses did...We are a new/modern Air Force that deserves a uniform that represents the new era, new time and new generations...We do not need our young airman (officer and enlisted) looking like our service members from back in 1947, we need a 2010 look that represents the past and future...

Posted by: Old Spooky FE at September 25, 2008 08:19 AM

To this "uniform", an old 'hood cheer from back in the day;

U-G-L-Y
You ain't got no alibi,
You Ugly!
Yeah, yeah, You Ugly!

Posted by: Charlie Holmes at September 25, 2008 08:14 AM

What in the heck are you folks in DC thinking!!?? Has our leadership degenerated this far? First its blue cammies, now this WWI throwback. What we need to concentrate on is being soldiers!! We are, after all, part of the military. Many of my friends were killed in Viet Nam because they were thrown into combat without a clue as to what it was all about. Forget about uniform changes and concentrate first on becoming part of the military. BDU's were a good start. Now train my people.

Wayne J. Chandler, CMSgt, USAF (Ret)

Posted by: Wayne J Chandler at September 25, 2008 08:12 AM

What are we becomming Marines? Just change it to their colors and we will fit right in.

Posted by: Brian at September 25, 2008 08:12 AM

The most astonishingly foolish uniform I've ever seen. Please stop the madness!!

Tony Sylvain, Maj, USAF (Ret)

Posted by: Tony Sylvain at September 25, 2008 08:11 AM

No way. That is the WORST looking uniform I have ever witnessed. Looks like something Mel Brooks would come up with in one of his ridiculous parodies. NIX IT!

Posted by: 15EagleKeeper at September 25, 2008 08:08 AM

Have the uniform board sit down in front of a big screen TV, and watch the old Jimmy Stewart movie Strategic Air Command. That movie shows all the great uniform combinations of that era. The board should then recommend the USAF revert back to the uniforms worn in the late 50s early 60s--of course minus the fatigues worn then. I would bet most airmen would happily go back to wearing those uniforms that made veterans like myself very proud to wear them. J. D. Hocking, CMSGT (Retired)

Posted by: Jim Hocking at September 25, 2008 08:07 AM

Modeled after the uniform worn by Hap Arnold? How about Herman Goering? Seig Heil!!

Posted by: Larry at September 25, 2008 08:03 AM

No wonder Gates fired people ... but it's clear he didn't get 'em all.

Posted by: Andy at September 25, 2008 07:51 AM

Does AAFES have a seat on the Uniform board? It would appear so, with the new PT gear and now this.

Posted by: Charlie at September 25, 2008 07:47 AM

Having retired in 1975, and having been through a number of changes at that time. Why can they not just leave well enough alone and spend my tax dollar on something important like adequate pay and supplies for our enlisted.

Posted by: Walter Taylor at September 25, 2008 07:46 AM

Way to go Gen Schwartz. It is about time we concentrated on the important things that will benefit the Air Force. We are in a time of war right now, and how is a new service coat going to help. I have seen too much money wasted while in the Air Force and this is another example. Way to keep people on track General Schwartz.

Posted by: Jason at September 25, 2008 07:45 AM

YOU MUST BE KIDDING!!! This is one of the ugliest attempts at revising uniforms we have ever seen. I Proudly served 28 years in the Air Force and was proud of my uniform, but the look of the Air Force uniforms has steadily declined. This looks like something from the WWII era andl more Marine Corps than Air Force. Where do these people come up withthese ideas. I agree with other comments that Ron Fogleman as the last leader we had with a sense of style and the guts to do the right thing.

Jack H. Brown, CMSGT, ret

Posted by: bj4jhbrown@bellsouth.net at September 25, 2008 07:42 AM

I have seen a few comments about the real issue,which I have been through.I was in the Air Force in the mid 70's and the biggest thing is not the uniform,it is the cost of changing the uniform for the airmen that have to pay for the changes.I was in when they changed the 1505's and also the change in rank.I got one set of each but had to replace more than one,and as the wife Sept 19th said it all cost money that could be spend elsewhere for the people that can least afford it.

Posted by: mike rowe at September 25, 2008 07:39 AM

What in the Hell are our upper level commanders doing? Do they not have time for what really counts, or they just trying to justify their positions. First they bring in the new fairy wings for an emblem, now they are trying to bring on board a crappy looking dress coat. Leave alone what works, like they should have done years ago. Start spending time and efforts in getting proper uniforms in the field, you know the ones that were approved years ago. Start getting spare parts in the field for equipment that is being use. But most of all stop trying to fix what ain't broken. 1505's worked well and looked good. Change for the good, not for the purpose of just change.

Philip Bracewell, Jr., USAF Retired

Posted by: P H Bracewell, Jr. at September 25, 2008 07:36 AM

Stop wasting time on how the dress uniform should look. How about developing an ABU that's comfortable for our airman on the front line in the 110 and higher temperatures in Iraq? Put the comfort and safety of those in harm's way on the top of the list!

Posted by: Leslie at September 25, 2008 07:27 AM

Gen. McPeak was the Chief who botched the uniform with his Navy special version (too much time in PACAF) for a mere $135 millions when we didn't have enough money for aircraft parts. Gen. Ron Fogleman immediately went back to the 'standard' AF Uniform, with minor changes. (McPeak is now engrossed as a 'military adviser' to Barrack Obama, which considering his uniform debacle, isn't reassuring.)Who are the twits that come up with this nonsense? Real aviators have better things to do. Gen. Schwartz needs to root out these clowns and transfer them to some third world country where they belong.

Posted by: Wil at September 25, 2008 07:20 AM

What is wrong with the Uniform Board. The AF uniform was just fine. As a retire that served from 67-88, we had an excellent uniform. Simple and clean cut. This recommend change is just ugly and out of date. Please out of respect for the AF personnel that have served proudly since the establishment of the AF in 1947; do not implement this design

Posted by: Vic at September 25, 2008 07:14 AM

Now that I'm done with my deer in the headlight look. I can only wonder what the Air Force has been and is thinking. When they first decided to change the uniforms, they wanted to get away from the same look as the Army. Well, they used to be a branch of the Army. Okay, so change. However, they went for a change that made them look more like the Navy; and changed the enlisted rank for the top three to look similiar to the Army's. Blue BDUs? Plleeaase! Now they have this? It looks like they are trying to copy the Marines with this jacket. I agree with an earlier posting, go with the Ike Jacket. But I would imagine with all the problems the Air Force has had with issues about tankers and planes, this is the last thing they would want people laughing at. C'mon Air Force!

Posted by: OMG at September 25, 2008 07:13 AM

Very bad choice. Don't let them waste money on this proposal.

Posted by: Howard at September 25, 2008 07:13 AM

Tailgunner - I agree that the best Chief we've had in the modern era was Gen Fogelman, but please check your facts - his name is Ronald, not John. As for uniforms, I served 41+ years and went through everything from gray fatigues and 505s to the digital cammies. The last thing that AF leadership should be concentrating on today is uniforms. Our AF is a mess like much of the rest of government. Let's make it work again before we think about how it looks. Colonel Dave

Posted by: Colonel Dave at September 25, 2008 07:09 AM

This has to be some sort of joke or bad dream. Come on people! There are much more important things to do than coming up with new uniforms and having the troops put their hard earned cash for them. I remember the days of the ceremonial dress blue and dress white uniforms and when MAC became AMC and TA became ACC. What a real waste of money all the way around. Just as this will be. Lets get on with the job at hand, not fool around making changes so someone gets promoted.

Posted by: Walter Wise at September 25, 2008 07:09 AM

I was so laughing when I read your post Tom, I knew I didn't have the guts to say it but was indeed thinking it!!!

"Hail Hitler"

Posted by: tom at September 25, 2008 05:44 AM

Posted by: Court at September 25, 2008 06:59 AM

Heck, this thing looks like an "SS" uniform. I agree with most everyone else. Get rid of the board! McPeak started this mess, and it hasn't stopped since! Get back to real issues. Oh, by the way, send our program (ISR) the $125M. We sure could use it.

Posted by: Ben at September 25, 2008 06:50 AM

After looking at the new uniform that is being offered I think someone at the Uniform Board needs to have his/her head examined. That is one of the uglies uniforms that was ever designed. If you want the belt style go back to the Ike Jacket or early 50/60s uniform. My dad always looked sharp wearing the uniform. I later wore some of the new uniforms and didn't care for them. I much prefered the dark blue long sleeve shirt with tie than the light blue shirt. Then we had those terrible periods of time where we couldn't wear crew neck t-shirts because of a general's wife not wanting to see the t-shirt when the shirt was open necked. Come on let's get real! Ask the troops not the designers.

Posted by: Daryl Allen at September 25, 2008 06:36 AM

Anyone for a modified WWII Luftwaffe uniform? Where is McPeake when you need him?

Posted by: jdshatz at September 25, 2008 06:30 AM

The Air Force has had a great advantage having a uniform that looked great because it was minimalist w/o patches and "do dads." I think looking like a "mounty" with high collar and belt is the most uncomfortable look. Go back to what has served so well in "uniform philosophy."

Posted by: Jim Vornberg at September 25, 2008 06:28 AM

Continuous uniform fiasco since Tony McPeak is hard evidence that the processfor selecting top leadership is broken. I wonder as well whether Goldwater-Nichols and the shift of power to theater commanders has encouraged theservice leadership to focus on trivia.

Bring back the 1583 blues and 1505. If we really need throwback uniforms, let's get blue versions of the Rhode Island State Police uniforms (they appear to have a different one for each day of the week: http://www.risp.state.ri.us/img/gallery/AllUniforms.jpg

Me, Myself, and Irene, anyone?

Posted by: Spot at September 25, 2008 06:23 AM

Follow the money trail. Where do many, not all of these generals go to work after they retire from the military. They become political hacks (Clark/McPeak), lobbyists for the insurance companies, defense and the textile industries.

I think the uniform board is full of out of touch designer nitwits. I had to put up with that idiot McPeak and his uniform changes and TQM during the 80's.

The only real General we have had we any common sense in the last 30 years was Gen John Fogelman. Stop the bleeding, leave the uniforms alone. Come back John, the AF needs you.

Posted by: Tail Gunner at September 25, 2008 06:13 AM

The Navy has been known to change uniforms from 1980 to 85 I know of two complete dress uniform changes, from Cracker Jacks to Ice Cream vendor to Cracker Jacks.

Alice Graham you may not have seen many Blues over the years, but you have to realize every uniform change is purchased and worn at least once a year. Some years it is worn for a uniform inspection just to ensure you have all of the uniform parts.

To the guy who said he does not want to hear from Spouses, keep in mind the spouses are considered support personnel. As support personnel they receive half of the Service Member's retirement.

Uniforms should be addressed when they are completely outdate, sorry Korea era service members, but that four pocket is soo outdate and not a classical style. If you remove all the extra pockets and make it more like the simpel suit coat style that was in place for a while then yes that is a classical cut.

Although the Air Force is working on keeping its members in better shape, you do have to ask yourself, "How are the fat guys or the ladies who have a baby every two years so they don't have to lose the weight going to look in these uniforms?"

You have to be pretty uninterested in the Nation's finaical situation to not believe changes in uniform style is not a back burner issue. I don't know about you, but buying all these new uniforms, whenever there is a change, make me feel like we are just lining someone else's pocket, and down right angers me when a uniform is made in the Dominican Republic, a GSA-approved country.

If we are going to have a uniform change then it should be 100% from design to distribution through companies based in the USA, who pay ALL of their taxes- no loop holes!!!!

Posted by: Mar at September 25, 2008 06:13 AM

Back burner sounds like a good idea to me. I think our AF leaders have bigger issues to worry about. Better places to spend $125 Million.

Posted by: Kami at September 25, 2008 06:07 AM

Hail Hitler

Posted by: tom at September 25, 2008 05:44 AM

i have just seen the new uniform and am not very impressed. i would say to the designer, that if the USAF wanted to be in the British military they would have joined them. they are to most uncomfortable looking uniforms that i have ever seen. i really hate to see our hard earner taxes put to these types of uniforms.

Posted by: Gerald S. Gavin, TSgt, USAF (Ret) at September 25, 2008 05:39 AM

Stop, Stop, Stop! Just stop. Abolish the uniform board. They should only get together every 20 years. McPeak did more to screw up the USAF than any man alive. When Kerry trotted out those looser Generals, his is "supporters", I predicted that McPeak would be among them. I was right. McPeak should forever be remembered as a megolomaniac.

Posted by: Scott at September 25, 2008 05:26 AM

I retired in 1989 after 20 years of combined service. They changed things after I retired. I am sure glad I wasn't there. Some changes in the past were needed. Some were good and then some were not so good. The new service jacket reminds me more of a Marine jacket. I have always been proud of the Air Force and not just because we share the same birthday (exactly). But to change the service dress to look like another branch of the militry is rediculous. I agree with one comment I read earlier about the 1505's. They were a good uniform, even though they were left over's from the Army Air Force days. As for BDU's, well thats another subject. Leave the uniforms alone. Airmen now days have enough to worry about then having to buy new uniforms when they cost so much. I know even we did when they made changes to uniforms while I was still on active duty. If you're going to change them then make at least 1 an automatic issue. I think the best General who was a people person was General Thomas Ryan. He listened to the enlisted.

Posted by: Ron at September 25, 2008 05:24 AM

As a Air Force Vet myself all I have to say is,...if that is the way the powers to be want to look like, I think the Corp has room. I mean come on with all that is going on in the world and the service right now, don't you think you could/should put your assets to better use. I am a proud Vet, proud of the United States of America, and of the United States Air Force, Fly and aim high.

Posted by: pmorgeron at September 25, 2008 05:19 AM

I completely understand the frustration expressed concerning changing the Air Force uniform AGAIN. I am still in the Air Force and have been for the last eighteen years. To the individual who has six years of service and doesn't want to hear from retirees and military wives; you represent the United States Air Force, we fight for freedom for our country and one of those freedoms is speech. Allow their opinions, they have the right to voice them. I myself believe it IS a waste of money, and if they really want to make changes for the people who wear the uniform, leave the uniform alone and take care of the hat! It is a disgrace and non-functional with one small gust of wind.

Posted by: Dawn at September 25, 2008 05:16 AM

There is no need to change the Class A uniform again. I went through the McPeak era, like many of you did, and those uniform changes received mixed reviews, to be polite. I don't care for the design shown above. As for having pride in the uniform--it is very important to look smart and military professional--it helps in establishing and maintaining unity and pride. Leave well enough alone and move on to more pressing military equipment needs and personnel matters.

Posted by: WEB at September 25, 2008 05:12 AM

Gen. McPeaks was an idiot and a meglomaniac! He was the root cause of uniform changes and bad ones that added just another break of tradition.
His most notorious changes included a new uniform and a heritage program that involved renumbering of many organizations. General McPeak's change produced severe scar tissue for both himself and the Air Force. This was the beginning of the end of traditions in the USAF.
This new attempt at a uniform looks horrible! A belt??? Colored in shades of McPeak...

Posted by: F Asbury at September 25, 2008 05:00 AM

As a wife to an active duty airman, i don't think it is a good time to make more changes to uniforms. While i think the new dress jacket is sharp and I love a man in a sharp uniform ;0), with the ecomony on a downward spiral, cost of living rising fast and deployments putting our airmen in harms way, the LAST thing on most peoples minds are new uniforms. It just doesn't seem a smart decision at this time. It just seems that the money for this project could be better spent in other areas right now.

Posted by: Proud AF Wife at September 25, 2008 04:17 AM

Are we trying to save money on shirts and ties here? The combination one from the 70's and 80's was terrific. Comfortable and distinctive. Change the shirt and tie, and you have a semi-formal. This thing is a Marine dress uniform in Air Force blue! Bill Creapaux, MSgt., retired.

Posted by: Bill Creapaux at September 25, 2008 04:12 AM

Yeah, putting this on the backburner is a good idea, the whole EPR/OPR promotion system encourages this non-essential ingenuity and diversity as opposed to specialty and common sense desired traits & accomplishments. The so called "checking the boxes" for promotion boards for senior enlisted & officers is more than likely the cause. Instead of specializing the airman's craft and primary afsc , you have to do a wide variety of non-afsc "jobs" in order to get promoted. In doing these things volunteer work, creating some sort of program, the accomplishment-impact reasoning of this process is encouraging this type of behavior. Unfortunately the actions of the few getting promoted and making these decisions are taking putting a bad mark on the many actions of the many. The Air Force is doing a great job at what it does and should not forge itself like the navy/army, but continue its heritage of Curtis Lemay and others.

US Airpower has proved time and time again that it is saving lives on the ground. Precision airstrikes, aidrop, airlift, tactical & strategic attacking(fighters, bombers, a-10's and ac-130's), & aerial manned/unmanned reconnasiance has kept a widely disproportinate casualty count in OUR favor to our enemies since we've had an aerial advantage.

Posted by: Yup at September 25, 2008 04:06 AM

I was serving during Gen. McPeaks era and frankly I thought he was an idiot! Too many stupid uniform changes and bad ones to boot .ie V neck tee shirts that made your chest hairs stick out of the neck line of your shirt... I could go on. This new uniform looks terrible! Thank God I am retired and don't have look like something out of WW1.

Posted by: Ronald McAtee at September 25, 2008 03:51 AM

This is good that its set on the backburner. There are much more pressing issues to the AF today, like the lack of direct support for Operational Flyers & Maintenance, ie orderly rooms, etc... Pilots and maintainers should not have to do other people's jobs, ie comm, orderly rooms, execs, finance etc... They should bring back SAC mentality, mission, ie FLYING FIRST, not PT, not uniforms, or this idea of career diversity, but career SPECIALTY, PROFICIENCY but getting AIRPLANES airborne safely and EFFECTIVELY.

Posted by: Random Airman at September 25, 2008 03:51 AM

General Merrill McPeak's changes in the Air Force and in our uniform were not in the best interests of the service and its men and women.

The proposed service dress uniform is probably well-intentioned, and I appreciate the historical tie-in but the uniform is inappropriate in today's Air Force.

Posted by: Thomas F. Fitzpatrick at September 25, 2008 03:30 AM

I saw these a few weeks ago and coulden't believe my eyes! Has everyone above O-3 gone stark raving mad? There are procurement, maintanence and other issues (scandals) ongoing. not to say anything about our men and women in harms way in the current hot zones around the world! And their trying to change the uniform again?! How about making sure they have the QUALITY equipment to do their job? The people that count don't care about a new fancy blue uniform! espically ones that looks like that!
In my four years of service, i wore my Blues maybe twice at most. As an Aircraft Mechanic wedidn't use it much. And in those days the base commander choose what you wore and how you wore it.
Heck, when i went to basic i was issued a Korean War era fatigue jacket! and that was back in '66!

Posted by: Old U.S.A.F. Mechanic at September 25, 2008 03:24 AM

Gunner461,
I appreciate your service, and your ability to understand the truth in what you say. Certain personnel who are excited about wearing blues every monday and still mock desk-jockeys in the same breath (Sh1rt) don't have a true understanding of what some Airmen are actually doing in the Air Force. On to the subject at hand, I am glad the "New Blues" have been put on hold. As an Air Force, we should always be retro-fitting and updating our fleet since we are an "Air" Force. Even money left after that should be diverted to better support the Air Forces ever growing ground force. I know plenty of troops who would gladly give up other amenities to replace some of our ancient 7B and 7D NODs. Hopefully, next year when it comes up again, we will be able to get the "New Blues" pushed back another year. We still have Air Wings and detatchment forces needing these dollars to continue our ongoing campaigns.

Posted by: Jimbo Johnson at September 25, 2008 02:49 AM

Honestly, it's derogatory comments like these which leaves a bad taste in new Airmen's mouths when they read messages from Retired, Acitive Duty and personnel who have never worn a uniform and think they know what they're talking about. I've been in the AF for almost 6 years and I have nothing but PRIDE and HONOR everytime I put my uniform on, no matter which uniform that might be. Everyone on here is talking bad about the 'new' service coat, but how often are we REALLY in Full Service Dress? We just started back with wearing of the Blues every Monday, but the last time I checked, I didn't have to wear my coat along with it. We have a wife on here talking about how the AF needs to spend money on more important things than the new uniform, but then her whole argument was about changing the flight cap and jacket so her husband doesn't look like a soda jerk from Happy Days?! I'm sure your not complaining when the AF gives him a paycheck for wearing that flight cap. We have Retired AF SNCO's stating how they're so happy they are not enlisted right now becuase of how the AF has treated them and now they hold no respect for the Service anymore. Hey, I hope your enjoying that check once a month and your free VA benefits. COME ON!! I have been deployed as a Security Forces member 3 times, among countless TDYs in my short time in and have to say, our uniforms could look a lot worse from the standards in which other countries allow they're military members to look like while in uniform!! People need to remember that we are the UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, and we look good doing our job in ANY uniform we wear!!

Posted by: Sarah at September 25, 2008 02:46 AM

Honestly, it's derogatory comments like these which leaves a bad taste in new Airmen's mouths when they read messages from Retired, Acitive Duty and personnel who have never worn a uniform and think they know what they're talking about. I've been in the AF for almost 6 years and I have nothing but PRIDE and HONOR everytime I put my uniform on, no matter which uniform that might be. Everyone on here is talking bad about the 'new' service coat, but how often are we REALLY in Full Service Dress? We just started back with wearing of the Blues every Monday, but the last time I checked, I didn't have to wear my coat along with it. We have a wife on here talking about how the AF needs to spend money on more important things than the new uniform, but then her whole argument was about changing the flight cap and jacket so her husband doesn't look like a soda jerk from Happy Days?! I'm sure your not complaining when the AF gives him a paycheck for wearing that flight cap. We have Retired AF SNCO's stating how they're so happy they are not enlisted right now becuase of how the AF has treated them and now they hold no respect for the Service anymore. Hey, I hope your enjoying that check once a month and your free VA benefits. COME ON!! I have been deployed as a Security Forces member 3 times, among countless TDYs in my short time in and have to say, our uniforms could look a lot worse from the standards in which other countries allow they're military members to look like while in uniform!! People need to remember that we are the UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, and we look good doing our job in ANY uniform we wear!!

Posted by: Sarah at September 25, 2008 02:44 AM

Alrigthy then I am laughing so hard everyone of you who posted their perspective on this so called
matter, the new uniform is a joke, and you all could have not said it better and then some, and yes we have more important matters like doing our jobs and defending this nation and world and protecting our most deserved military members who have taken an oath to defend, protect and serve...
and learning to budget our resources for better equioment, etc not a fsahion show, get real its ridiculous and just plain pathetic, Remember it now is about Air Cobat force not chairforce, move forward and get your act together leaders!!!!

Repulsed and digusted
M

Posted by: Marianne at September 25, 2008 02:21 AM

I guess my only comment would echo what has already been posted. I served from 1955 thru 1984 and saw many changes to our uniform. Personally I always liked the Ike Jacket as it was know as a Class "B" uniform. Our Class "A" Blouse was a nice looking coat, a little heavy as it was wool. With todays material it could be made lighter. I do not like the looks of the new uniform shown that they might be considering.Thank you for allowing my comments. L.W Griffith, Smsgt. Retired and proud to have served

Posted by: L.W. Griffith,Smsgt./Retired at September 25, 2008 02:10 AM

PEOPLE..REALLY?

All of you are wasting your breath so to speak because girping about the new uniform change here does no one any good. These concerns you all have about the Air Force uniform change need to go to the idiots chairing the Air Force and THEY are the ones who need to hear about it. I realize that the new folks that just stepped in here recently are not the ones to blame initially, but they are at the top and must recognize that most of us who are still serving do not want this type of change. SEND THESE MESSAGES TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE, I like Military.com, but these gripes and complaints do you absoulutly no good here.

Posted by: Howard at September 25, 2008 02:02 AM

I wonder why new tankers are needed. During the Boeing fiasco a study indicated that the current fleet had about 50% of its functional life left (the then AFSEC canned the report, but it is still a valid assessment of fleet capability.) And, the planes Boeing proposed delivering offered no increase in capability or capacity. Everytime I see a 60 year old B-52 flying, I wonder why the KC135 won't be just as robust in the future. And finally, since Boeing was involved in payoffs to procurement officers, even hiring one's daughter as a VP, why are they being considered at all. What we don't need is a bunch of lying crooks involved in a program of this scope.

Posted by: Tom Pugh at September 25, 2008 02:02 AM

Ms Alice Graham,
Thanks, so much. You'll be happy to know we are back in blues! Every Monday, we are now wearing one combination of the service dress. It's a step in the right direction. One day, we might even get the desk pilots out of their zoomeralls!?
Gunner461,
It's sad that guys like you lost your blue along the way. It was up to you-NCO-to get your Airmen to focus on the mission and not worry about uniforms. The AF took care of you and your family for a career and this is the kind of rhetoric you provide back. Thanks for your service, but if you can't say anything nice about the AF, then you aren't really supporting us.
Sh1rt

Posted by: Sh1rt at September 25, 2008 01:50 AM

Doesn't the Air Force have bigger things to worry about than freakin' uniforms???!!Spend that money on something truly important like a dress hat that doesn't make the person wearing it look like a soda jerk in "happy days". The uniforms in the photo look like the ones Teddy Roosevelt and the rough- riders wore, and that belt is just G-y. China Ferrera-Moran,Air Force wife !

Posted by: China Ferrera-Moran at September 25, 2008 01:43 AM

SMSgt(ret) George Shaw,
You said it best. I too, love my job and serving my country. I love the AF. I'll wear whatever they put me in. I miss the old utility uniform and the 4 pocket blue wool uniform I was issued in basic. Times change and the uniform will continue to change. The new generation won't know the difference except for us old timers saying "back in the day..."
By the way...the uniform in this picture is not the one being considered. The one being developed is a 40s style (much like the old 4 pocket) with a retro wider collar and a waist belt. The biggest controversy has been the belt and collar, but most like the return to the basic 4 pocket.
Let's worry about keeping the the planes flying and leave the uniform to the guys in DC.
God Bless! Hooah
Shrt

Posted by: Sh1rt at September 25, 2008 01:30 AM

Air Force Leadership PLEASE get a CLUE!! I am SO happy that I retired from the AF mess last year. This reminds me of the AF BLUE shark fighters uniform requested by the AF Uniform Board a few years ago. I can remember be in the shop with my young soldiers; listening to them laugh and say they would get out of the Air Force and Go Green instead of show up to work in that stupid blue set of Battle Dress (Blue) uniform. The question I have is why doesn't the AF get back to the MISSION! I retired because of the Sr. rear-end kissers, no AF history in site and the constant disappointment of the Air Force leadership. Or should I say lack of Air Force Leadership world-wide. For 20 years I listened to the AF brag about old/new slogans such as AIM-HIGH and ABOVE ALL...... But I see the new technology daily, new weapons, new A/C, new computer tech, new satelites.... Now the Air Force is thinking about Happening Hap Arnold; isn't that a HUGE contradiction to where we need the Air Force to go and the mission it needs to pay attention to?

Good Luck active duty folks; you have a long row to hoe. God Bless you, and even though the Air Force doesn't support you, America Does!

Gunner

Posted by: Gunner461 at September 25, 2008 01:29 AM

Air Force Leadership PLEASE get a CLUE!! I am SO happy that I retired from the AF mess last year. This reminds me of the AF BLUE shark fighters uniform requested by the AF Uniform Board a few years ago. I can remember be in the shop with my young soldiers; listening to them laugh and say they would get out of the Air Force and Go Green instead of show up to work in that stupid blue set of Battle Dress (Blue) uniform. The question I have is why doesn't the AF get back to the MISSION! I retired because of the Sr. rear-end kissers, no AF history in site and the constant disappointment of the Air Force leadership. Or should I say lack of Air Force Leadership world-wide. For 20 years I listened to the AF brag about old/new slogans such as AIM-HIGH and ABOVE ALL...... But I see the new technology daily, new weapons, new A/C, new computer tech, new satelites.... Now the Air Force is thinking about Happening Hap Arnold; isn't that a HUGE contradiction to where we need the Air Force to go and the mission it needs to pay attention to?

Good Luck active duty folks; you have a long row to hoe. God Bless you, and even though the Air Force doesn't support you, America Does!

Gunner

Posted by: Gunner461 at September 25, 2008 01:22 AM

The only things I'd change to the current unis would be to offer a lighter/cooler ABU option and to authorize the wear of unit patches on the ABU. I think the unit emblems help with organizational pride and appreciation of heritage, areas in which the Air Force falls regrettably short of the other service branches; not only that, but they help one roughly identify another Airman's functional area at a glance. Major overhauls, though, can wait.

Posted by: Vincent at September 25, 2008 01:20 AM

OK--I retired after 20 years, but it's not the uniform that has me puzzled--I was wondering when the Marines learned to use computers?????? Jackass.

Posted by: B-Dub at September 25, 2008 01:19 AM

I RETIRED IN 1994. THATS WHEN THEY CHANGED THE CHERVONS (STRIPS). WHY? AND THE CLASS A BLUES. THEY LOOKED LIKE A BUS DRIVERS SUIT. ALSO THEY MADE THE ENLISTED WEAR THE SAME US EMBLEM ON THE CLASS A'S AS THE OFFICERS. WHY? THAT WAS MCPEAKS THING.
AND I DID MISS THE 1505'S.
I HOPE THAT THEY LEAVE THE FLIGHT SUIT ALONE.

Posted by: CARL COLE MSGT,USAF. RET. at September 25, 2008 01:18 AM

This new uniform is not what I expected to see, it looks like something from WW1. Why not the uniform type used during the 1970s thru the 1980s? It sure was a betterlooking uniform.

Posted by: J. Mamola at September 25, 2008 01:18 AM

OMG! If they want tradition they need to keep the uniform the way it is now and go back to the old style wings on the buttons, THEN LEAVE IT ALL ALONE FOR THE NEXT 50+ YEARS!!!!! Enlisted families can't afford to keep buying new uniforms every few years because some higher up got a fashion bug up the you know what.

it's going to end up being like the new ACU's that are all supposed to be the same color. We have to scrounge around through the shelves because some are noticably more brown than green, and everyone can tell when the top and bottom are not the same dye lot.

I have had to make more than one trip to CS to get the correct shade pants to match the tops my husband already has because he likes to have more than one pair of pants ready. He deploys a lot so I get the joy of doing this shopping for him.

If these blues change again I don't want to have to keep going back to get matching blue dye lots so he doesn't get in trouble for being mismatched. This stuff is expensive you know!

Posted by: D3CR at September 25, 2008 01:17 AM

Why the fuss? We retired some 30 years ago, but use the base facilities most every day. We do not see a dress uniform ever. Everyone is wearing fatigues or flying PJs. I realize they are work uniforms.
I know changes, however seing an USAF member dressed in Class A uniform makes me stand straighter, with tears in our eyes, but a smile on my face. We are still very proud of all of you.

Posted by: Alice Graham at September 25, 2008 01:15 AM

Oh God nine more years of this torture!

Posted by: jrod1019 at September 25, 2008 01:04 AM

Disgusting! Leave us alone. Quit playing like we are Ken and Barbie. We are military members not toys. Let us do our job and go away. Lead us don't play with us. I'm sick of the crap. Every time someone else is in charge at every level they have to change something. Ask us what is broken and work on that.... Does the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it!" ring a bell with anyone? So is this really broke? Who's idea is this? Why do we need new ideas on uniforms every six months. Find out from us what works, whats comfortable, what makes it easier to do our job instead of playing dress up with us. Quit already!

Posted by: Airgirl at September 25, 2008 12:58 AM

Remember back in 1951 pulling duty in a warehouse, saw some silver gray uniforms. When I asked if they were going to be the new Air Force uniforms, was told, no, they where rejected. There were thousands of them. Another example of Air Force waste in the uniform department. That was 56 years ago, guess nothing has changed.

Posted by: Bob Keen at September 25, 2008 12:54 AM

Ha ha ... is today April 1st?

Posted by: Ron at September 25, 2008 12:53 AM

I think if you've read all the posts, you see this is something that should hit the shredder, along with whomever is trying to change heritage. I bet, though, there'll be a bunch of leaders subordinate to the policy makers who'll "salute smartly" and say "Yes, sir! We love this and we'll coach our folks into loving it as well." And it'll happen--too bad. The leadership wants to know what you think but it'll fall to deaf ears. Let's see.

Posted by: Old man at September 25, 2008 12:41 AM

This looks like a "Mao Jacket" on the male (Does it come with a copy of "The Little Red Book"?)

The female looks like she belongs to the Salvation Army.

Has the USAF leadership become so irrelevant that this is what they dream up? God save us from small minds!

Steve Crawford, NCO/PACAF(Ret).

Posted by: Steve Crawford at September 25, 2008 12:39 AM

The uniform in the photo is the Billy Mitchell design, not the Hap Arnold. Both versions are equally inappropriate for the AF today. WWs I & II were last century.

Today's AF Service Dress is appropriately plain yet distinctive. Looking for tradition? Start one now with the current uniform. Otherwise watch a movie.

Posted by: Brennan at September 25, 2008 12:25 AM

Praise the Lord I retired. Wore the class A blues for 20 years, the only change was the BDU's which was a welcome change. Everything else should stay the same. You don't see the Navy or Marines changing every few years.
USAF, RET. TSgt

Posted by: Zoomie53 at September 25, 2008 12:24 AM

Welcome to the Salvation Army. Man, your taste in clothes is HORRIBLE!! Get a brain!

Posted by: Ex-airforce at September 25, 2008 12:13 AM

The uniform looks like we're getting ready to invade Poland...lol. Not only does it look stupid, the change is un-neccessary. I didn't thhink we needed to change from the BDU's and DCU's to the new ABU and now they want to make us change our class-A's. I think the AF just likes wasting money! This money could be used much better, like for NEW TANKERS!

Posted by: John at September 25, 2008 12:10 AM

That does it! The Air Force has wasted so much time and every ones money on this stuff that apparently they can't get their act together. Maybe combining the services is the way to go. Give me a break do people not have real jobs? They just sit around thinking this stuff up?
First we were made to look like we were in the Navy and now this? Maybe the combining of the forces would fix this stuff. And get new tankers as well

Posted by: Mike at September 25, 2008 12:07 AM

Where is the bonnet and band instruments? Looks like the salavation army women's uniform. And get rid of the cheap looking airline pilot jacket your currently wearing too. Go back to the WW2 style uniform or the 4 pocket jacket from the 70's or 80's. Stop trying to look like something from a cheap SciFi movie and get back to being in the military again. As far as the ass remark by the Naval Infantry, opps I mean marine, if the AF is such crap, then how come your Corp uses combat tactics and doctrine developed by an AF Col? And last I checked the combat kill ratio for the F-15 was something like 135-0? What is it for the FA-18?

Posted by: Hap at September 25, 2008 12:07 AM

My wife and I agree that the top kind of resembles a Nazi Uniform with the high neck collar and the midsection belt. Please don't adopt this. I understand that we should respect and reflect on our heritage but that doesn't mean that we have to look like we belong in the past. Our current Dress Blues have a more professional and business oriented look to them, thats what we are professionals, let's look like it.

Posted by: jcraigb at September 25, 2008 12:05 AM

I'm an old AF vet from Vietnam era. If I could I would join up again and wear what ever the uniform was and I would wear it with pride. My AF career was the best thing I did with my life. I love the USA and I wish I could still serve my country. I like the uniform. SMSGT George Shaw

Posted by: G Shaw at September 24, 2008 11:55 PM

WAS IN FROM 1956 TO 1960. LOVED THE CLASS A BLUES. THE 1505'S WERE GREAT BUT FORGET THE FRUMPY BUSH JACKET. THE NEW UNIFORMS JUST LOOK STUPID.

Posted by: D. BARNARD at September 24, 2008 11:39 PM

Just take a look at either uniform and what do you see??? LOTS AND LOTS OF WRINGLES AND BUNCHED UP MATERIAL.
Stay with a business-style suit. It is far more stylish.

Posted by: Kevin at September 24, 2008 11:37 PM

knocking the uniform is one thing but the remarks of pvtrick on the 19th @4:51 are an atrosity.We Air Force have fought beside and died beside and in the air above every branch of service out there.think before you write or crawl bck into that dark hole you came from you should be banned

Posted by: sgrimes at September 24, 2008 11:37 PM

Oh hell, just bring back the old AAF pinks and greens! A man could just buy a set from a WWII reenactment uniform supplier, and it would be WAY cheaper than going through all the R&D crap that those bums in the Pentagon waste our tax dollars on!

I was in during the '80's, and those blues were just fine! I personally would have liked some khakis for summer, but some fleabrain at HQUSAF decided we'd wear blues even in 100 degree summer weather...I guess some dimwit had stock in a starch and detergent company.

The purpose of a military uniform is to be distinct from the civilian populace, as well as to engender pride in service in the men who wear that uniform. The uniform in the photo looks like a cross between a WWI-era Army uniform and S&M fetish wear. If I were still in the Air Force, I'd be ashamed to wear that abomination. If the Air Force wants to go back to its roots, then, as I suggested earlier, resume wear of the WWII-era uniform...pinks and greens for officers, Ike jackets for enlisted men. Cost would be minimal, as there are several companies already producing those items for reenactors; change over time would be quick, and THEY LOOK SHARP AS WELL AS MILITARY! They'd have the added advantage of being the uniform worn when the Air Force became its own service.

But then, who ever listens to those of us who love our service? The generals have their heads so far up their butts they're suffocating...and making the Force pay for it.

Posted by: The Cowboy Airman at September 24, 2008 11:22 PM

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.....

Posted by: chevynomad at September 24, 2008 11:21 PM

I proudly served and wore the Air Force blues for more than 30 years but I wouldn't be caught dead in this new uniform. It looks like it belongs on a the German Gestapo (sp?). I'm pretty sure in a very short time (about 3 seconds) I could come up with a better use for the millions of dollars that has been and will be spent on these atrocious uniforms.

Posted by: Ron at September 24, 2008 11:09 PM

UG LEE!

Posted by: Wally at September 24, 2008 11:06 PM

What in Gods name is going on ? I read a post that asked which Gen. has stock in a fabric/uniform company?? If this is what is so important in these times of scrimping, I'm glad I resigned after 9 years. As for the sport coat look, that sucks also. Let a uniform look like a uniform, not something you would torture someone with, and that Hap thing would look ok if it was made of the same material as in the Hap days. Poly ain't the answer.
USAF must have the same bunch of brown nosers as UAL did prior to my retirement... Nuff said...

Posted by: Ken K at September 24, 2008 11:02 PM

I wore the "Classy Service Blues" during the '60s through '80s, and was once mistaken for a Greyhound Bus Drive. I'd much rather be mistaken for a Bus Driver than a "Circus Clown", which is what that proposed new uniform looks like. BIG mistake in my opinion. Get on with the Air Forces Mission and putting it in a position of power and not looks.

Posted by: Richard A. Etheridge, SMSgt, USAF, Ret. at September 24, 2008 10:58 PM

This is so typical of the AF brass--they need to spend more time with the people who wear a uniform and do a job...anyone who doesn't work in an office (ie Security Forces, A/C Maint.) and see what they need in way of equipment before we change anything else. Collectively, the upper staff has failed the junior forces (e-6 and below) by failing to properly train and equip...this is another idiot either trying to fix morale or trying to get and "bullet" for an evaluation. Dear upper echelon brass, before you implement this new uniform thing, please fill the current requirements of the stateside and overseas unit--what requirements you ask??? up-armor vehicle, body armor, new kevlar brain buckets, etc, etc etc....Praise the Lord I retired!

Posted by: Brian Hayden at September 24, 2008 10:56 PM

This is so typical of the AF brass--they need to spend more time with the people who wear a uniform and do a job...anyone who doesn't work in an office (ie Security Forces, A/C Maint.) and see what they need in way of equipment before we change anything else. Collectively, the upper staff has failed the junior forces (e-6 and below) by failing to properly train and equip...this is another idiot either trying to fix morale or trying to get and "bullet" for an evaluation. Dear upper echelon brass, before you implement this new uniform thing, please fill the current requirements of the stateside and overseas unit--what requirements you ask??? up-armor vehicle, body armor, new kevlar brain buckets, etc, etc etc....Praise the Lord I retired!

Posted by: Brian Hayden at September 24, 2008 10:56 PM

What gives? Who things that the Air Force dress uniform needs a belt? What are they thinking? Do they have a hangover the day that they decided on it? It looks like something out of Scifi. It's bad enough that the Air Force is going though alot of problems right now. What's next?

Posted by: Jamie at September 24, 2008 10:55 PM

This uniform looks so-o-o uncomfortable. The guys already kick about wearing a tie. This jacket makes them look like they're choking to death. The female looks like she's wearing a sack tied in the middle and the guy looks like he's carrying a sack around his middle - no style and extremely unflattering to both the male and female form - unless maybe they're built like twigs and wear size zero. Enough with the uniform already Air Staff - you've got UAVs to buy and credibility to restore. This isn't the way to do it.

Posted by: JudyB at September 24, 2008 10:45 PM

You've got to be kidding me. These uniforms look like something out of WW I.

I say go back to the dress blues of the 60's and 70's. That was a sharp looking uniform with a clean contemporary military look.

In fact I'd love to see the Air Force adopt a Class B khaki uniform similar to the 1505's that were still being issued when I signed up back in 1972. Now that would be a return to a uniform that left no doubt that the guy wearing it was serving his country.

Posted by: Bill at September 24, 2008 10:44 PM

Who's bright idea is this? Are we filming a new comedy series for TV? Gomer Pyle USAF maybe? Air Force generals need to get a grip on reality. For years the Air Force has been viewed as the business class of the Department of Defense but this uniform reminds me of the film footage of the Dough Boys in their end of WW1 parades all over the nation.
Why doesn't the photo show the obligatory leggings?

Posted by: RS at September 24, 2008 10:33 PM

Number one: None of you yahoos would give a damn how much they cost if you looked good in it.
Number two: There is no reason why a uniform couldn't make you look sharp as well as be comfortable in it.
Number three: Try giving some good feedback as opposed to boring us with your service justification and homophobia.
Number four: The "choke collar" shown has been and always will be great for display but has been and always will be a nightmare to button and uncomfortable as hell. It was designed to stop sword cuts to the neck and was where the term "leathernecks" came from.
Number five: If you want a "cool" or "sharp" looking "dress" uniform make up a panel of young, horny members of both sexes to judge submissions, not old, tired, bitter Generals with bayonet scars on their flat asses.
Number six: As the "youngest service" we need to quit looking to the army, navy, marines or coast
guard for example. They have had 200 not 50 years of tradition and necessity to work things out. For that matter, look at "camos" cripes, desk clerks and cooks wearing camos? Old airmen never die, they just flap their mouths forever, oops, I'm in that group. Lol

Posted by: ken b. at September 24, 2008 10:32 PM

Not only are these proposed uniforms a waste of tax payer dollars but also a throw back to the NAZI era. The Class "A" dress of the 60's and 70's still looks good today. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Posted by: Marc at September 24, 2008 10:28 PM

Who was the designer? Let me guess a neo-nazi? No? A skinhead? No? I know!!!!!! An idiot.....ding,ding,ding,ding,ding. This is a complete embarassment! Come on men, let the troops decide since their the ones who will be sporting the uniforms after all. If you put our servicemen in this garb they may as well be wearing Daisy Duke shorts and a halter top. Probably wouldn't get as many laughs though!

Posted by: Brian Withers at September 24, 2008 10:24 PM

I can imagine these two coming up and shouting "Show me your papers!" Very big-brotherish. These uniforms are more suited to the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. I'm glad I'm not in the AF anymore.

Posted by: Mike at September 24, 2008 10:22 PM

A blue Navy uniform...or maybe Marines. But I always thought the "squids" wore white and the "gyreens" wore dark (maybe cobalt) blue. Go back to the 1980's AF uniform design, at least that one looked "Military".

This current design looks like it was pulled from a Hollywood sci-fi movie set. Just what the ba-jeezuz is with the Nehru collars?

Posted by: A.B. at September 24, 2008 10:20 PM

This is an ugly uniform that is going back not forward. I got out of the Air Force in 1992 and was always proud to wear our dress blues. If I had to wear this new design I would quit. This is not WWI or WWII. My uniform look beautiful and this new design would give me nightmares. Can it, go back to the more suit like ones we had when I was in. The AF has more pride and honor and to wear the antique looking uniform would set us back instead of forward.

Posted by: Dawn at September 24, 2008 09:56 PM

take the guys glasses and replace them with a monocle and he looks like Col. Klink from Hogan's Heroes with that ridiculous jacket. It's bad enough that the helmets look like what the Nazis used to wear.

Posted by: Jimmy Robinson at September 24, 2008 09:52 PM

All I could think of on first view of this "uniform" is "Helm, set course and engage.", these look like the costumes from a bad episode of Star Trek Next Gen. Please give us all a little piece of mind and if you MUST change the uniform, then go back to the drawing board and find a man who is a little less effeminent to design something respectable. I agree with most of the other vets here, these outfits are NOT what the USAF needs, at least not the WORKING Air Force. My tax dollars would be better spent somewhere else, thanks.

Posted by: Dan Edwards at September 24, 2008 09:21 PM

My first impression, YUCK!! I guess that's due to my 2 year old granddaughter. Seriously though, I retired in '97 and I think this uniform is atrocious. Four pockets and a belt - something has to go. I did like the bottom two pockets. I did'nt like the two breast pockets or belt though but the breast pocket would make it easier to put on your ribbons. Another serious thought - get rid of the belt and at least two pockets. Who needs 4 pockets; esp in uniform?

Posted by: Karyn Riley at September 24, 2008 09:20 PM

Yeah... no need to change the dress blues. So retro... My uncles wore dress uniforms like this one but they were brown and it was WW1! We gotta look forward!
I remember sage green jumpsuits... khaki class b's... Ike jackets. And the dacrons! Boy.. that was a waste of money!
I was stationed at Vandenburg.. '63 to 67. All eyes on Moscow then.

Posted by: Jim L at September 24, 2008 09:18 PM

Boy am I glad my husband and I are no longer in the USAF. One post above said it looks like something from Star Wars but think again. My first thought when I saw the picture above was Nazi Germany or Russia. What a waste of tax payers dollars to change the look of a dress uniform. And the crease to BDU's is really dumb for they are a work uniform not a dress uniform so why do you need a crease? It seems the government just like the people they talk of bailing out need to go to school and learn what a budget is and how to stay in the budget instead of borrowing it or should I say stealing it from our personal hard earned money through taxes. Maybe they forget that most of us work hard for what we get. Just because they all can afford several homes don't mean the rest of us can. If they want to send money at least spend it on things worth wild, like armor piercing bullet proof vest and helmets or giving the soldiers higher pay raises like these cost of living increase that never seem to even come close to the cost of living increase. Or give more to the disabled vets for now a lot of them can't even get a job or at least not as good of paying job like they use to have. Maybe some one should recommend that some of or government leaders who make decisions like this uniform should stop and use a little know gift called commend sense.

Posted by: Patty at September 24, 2008 09:11 PM

I could dig the new jacket, but the belt. The belt would have to go. Theres no need for a belt. I understan that the AF wants the service dress to look more military, but the belt has no use. The jacket in service now makes me feel like I'm putting ribbons and a badge on a CEO suit everytime I have to put it on. I would like to see change in the jacket, but after the AF tends to more of the equipment needs to git the missions done.

Posted by: Miller at September 24, 2008 09:00 PM

BAD IDEA IN A BIG WAY. PLEASE DONT.

Posted by: ROBERT AKERS at September 24, 2008 08:59 PM

Glad I'm retired. Are they liberalizing the weight standards? These uniforms serve one purpose--hide the gut!

Posted by: Gus at September 24, 2008 08:58 PM

I joined the USAF June 1951,mostly for the blue uniform and from being drafted into the army. So guess what happens when I got to Sampson AFB and was issued old army od uniforms. Told us when we got out basic and to our new duty station they would be replaced. Flew to Keesler AFB after basic to be a high speed radio operator. The first day at Keesler a couple of us were walking around and jeep with 2 APs stopped us and told us were out uniforms with our kakhi belts,brown brogans and kahki covers, they told us to get down to base store and get fitted out, which we did. We given the choice of blouse or IKE jackets both not both and we had to keep our army ODs for clothing checks. I had those ODs for the 4years I was in. In the mean time as I was promoted I had some uniforms custom made. Those new uniform creep me out if I was going to design one I would look to the RAF.

Posted by: Steve at September 24, 2008 08:58 PM

Oh my gosh!!! What are they thinking, and I thought the "Delta" airline pilot uniforms I wore in the 90's were bad. Only the Air Force changes uniforms like underwear!

Posted by: John at September 24, 2008 08:35 PM

Does anyone remember the saying : "Leave well enough alone" ? That thing is revolting. Don't do it.

Signed: G. Osgood USAF SSGT. 1978-1987

Posted by: Geoff Osgood at September 24, 2008 08:35 PM

Wow! Glad I'm retired.

Posted by: Brian at September 24, 2008 08:31 PM

I think it looks HORRIBLE! It appears terribly unfunctional(what is the belt for?)and gawdy. It looks more like a COSTUME. I agree with TENNman in one of the first posts---It looks like a belted Nehru jacket. I served in the USAF 74-78. Silly as it may seem,the uniforms they had during that time is ONE of the things that attracted me to the AF(what do kids know). The Khacki's(1505's) were very comfortable in Turkey-however was disappointed when they deleted the shorts that went with it. The overcoat was a necessity in Northern Indiana winters. Fatigues were great for mid-shifts. Short and long sleve lt blue shirts were most comfortable. Long sleve dk blue shirt was snazzy and warm in winter. The versatility addressed all needs and preferences. Most of all they all looked very professional-the Air Force is professional's. Save the taxpayers some money. Eliminate the costume designers and stick with what worked.

Posted by: Anthony Waters at September 24, 2008 08:15 PM

As a retired AF MSgt ('69-'91), I have to wonder is McPeak & Mosely had uniform suppliers in their hip pockets. We all know how much respect McPeak lost with his new uniform design. Forget all the changes and go back to the all-weather blues and standard (what I consider the classic) stripes and quit trying to look like something we aren't. There are much more important things on the table for our leaders to consider than changing uniforms just for changes sake. When was the last time the other services decided to change their look just to be different? Besides, the proposed one looks like one you would see in a military school.

Posted by: Larry at September 24, 2008 07:59 PM

Maybe you should call, queer guya for straght guys.

Posted by: John at September 24, 2008 07:44 PM

In 1950 I was issued the first of the blue dress winter uniforms. Not a thing the matter with them. Use the vast amount of money toward new tankers. I recall way back then we held them together with coat hangers and bailing wire. Lots of fun. Be sensible about the whole AF program.

Posted by: allen P. at September 24, 2008 07:42 PM

Jezzz, please take it back to 58-62. Also the rank.

Posted by: Larry DuBose at September 24, 2008 07:36 PM

With things evolving as they have in the past few years both in the world and in the United States, I often thank my lucky stars I lived 'in the good ole times.'
The same goes for the uniforms I wore in the Air Force (when not in flying suit). The long sleeve 'Silver-Tans' with pleats, the long sleeved dark blue shirts with pleats, 505s and 1505s were all great looking uniforms that I was very proud to wear. Ike jacket was neat too.
If I wore the new proposed uniform, I would feel I was headed for a Halloween costume party.

Posted by: AF 1956-1976 at September 24, 2008 07:33 PM

USAF 1952-1956 41st rsm radio squardon moble Bremerhave Germany.
Looks like something the Russians, who we were montioring, would come up with during the cold war.

Posted by: Roy Austin Smith at September 24, 2008 07:22 PM

With all of the talk of tradition, history, honor.....why not accomplish them all by not changing it and keeping the current uniform as a tradition. Bus driver look, maybe, but it is what millions of us work for many many years. The only other dress uniform (not daily wear) I wore was Mess Dress, now that was a sharp uniform!

Keep the tration, keep the uniform as it is now.

Posted by: paul anthony at September 24, 2008 07:17 PM

I'm not certain who "hooya" is, but as far as saying the AF isn't military. Well, first..the uniform is ok, but that is not as important as the people wearing it. I was a PJ in the AF in the early 80's, and I dare you to say that isn't military. Are you? CCT's, PJs, FAC's...the list goes on. so to you I say "HOOYA"

Posted by: P Thomas at September 24, 2008 07:15 PM

I was in the AF from 1955 to 1963 and other than the 1 piece fatigues I thought our uniforms were great, no change needed.
The first thing I thought of when I saw the new uniforms was a picture I have of my two uncles in their WW1 uniforms, only a different color.
I guess we can't expect too much from the powers that be who tried to give our new tanker contact to France

Posted by: Wayne F at September 24, 2008 07:12 PM

I am a Vietnam Veteran with service in the USAF from 1965-1969. The new uniform being proposed is a travesty ! Bring back the old Class A blue uniform, and the 1505 Khaki summer uniform. If you need to change something consider the blue Eisenhower jacket. We don't need a uniform that looks like a blue, "B" movie version of the USMC tunic.

Posted by: Scott A. Helt at September 24, 2008 07:11 PM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Either go back to the old uniform or look forward and create a respectable one. Personally I think there are more important issues to worry about. No more expensive fighter jets until we take care of the rest of the air force.

Posted by: Paul at September 24, 2008 07:00 PM

I was an AF officer during the '70's and early '80's Loved it when they came out with the all season Class A's, short sleeve and long sleeve light blue shirt with epaulets. Hated losing the short sleeve "khakis" and the dark blue shirt. I shuddered (to put it mildly) when they came out with the "airline pilot" blues in the '90s and thanked my stars that I didn't have to buy and wear them.

With this new Class A, I think I will just PUKE and pretend I was never affiliated with the Air Force. It is a freaking belted NEHRU jacket, for crissake!!! I really don't think they could come up with anything uglier, if they had tried!!

If they feel they have to change, then change from the windbreaker to a dark blue "Eisenhower" jacket. But, go back to the sharp uniform that served us so well from the 50's through the 80's

Posted by: TENNman at September 24, 2008 06:59 PM

I served in the USAF from 1952/56. I think our uniforms at that time were excellent looking and fitting. The dress blue had just been originated in the late 40's, and by 52 most airmen were fitted into their blues. The Ike jackets, I think, were very military looking, and very pleasing to the eye. Fit nice too. ( At that time there were not very many obese waists! ). Our blue dress coat ( no belt ) and the newly designed chevrons really accentuated the uniform. I think those days were the best that the USAF uniform ever saw. I was proud to wear the uniform, and always felt "military" in it. Now, the one piece fatigues were another thing! Very ugly and uncomfortable!! Bill

Posted by: Bill Moore at September 24, 2008 06:39 PM

First,I'm retired Air Force...All I can say is I wish the Air Force would start looking forward instead of living in the past. The AF uniform should be progressive not retro.

If you look at the big picture, their failure to look forward in this seemingly small issue could possibly be a root cause of their current struggle to establish relevancy with in the Department of Defense.

Posted by: Nairb Sreoom at September 24, 2008 06:29 PM

I really don't care what the uniform looks like, it's whose wearing it. I had the privilege of serving with the Air Force in Vietnam and with other branches of our military, and I can tell you we really didn't have time critique each others uniform. I will always support our vets, both past and present irregardless of what the uniform looks like nor what their mos is.

Posted by: Jerry B. at September 24, 2008 06:28 PM

To "P" who left message of September 19, 2008 12:36 PM: That General was Ronald Fogleman, best damn straight-talking, hold 'em responsible Chief of Staff of the USAF since Hap Arnold. He held the "Mother of all Uniform Boards" in 1995 for which I was credited with "inventing" the subdued USAF insignia for the then-mostly-Army Goretex jacket and more. Gen. Fogleman was the most intelligent, well-spoken, common-sense Chief of Staff I ever heard of, and retired with honor to show support for Gen Schwalier in the wake of SecDef Cohen's blame-passing for Khobar Towers. Fogleman was/is best damn Chief of Staff since the 1960s for sure. And forget this belted wonder Service Dress uniform, it will surely pass.

Posted by: PMEL Airman at September 24, 2008 06:23 PM

First it was the rank insignias, then the Air Force Logo, Now a blue Marine Uniform for the Air Force. I am a Viet Nam Vet and all of the changes just make me sick. Go back to the old uniform and rank insignias.

Posted by: Dennis Mullican at September 24, 2008 06:23 PM

I served in the USAF from 1963 thru 1970 and the best uniform was the straight dress blue and for the other class B was the old and great 1505s...these new unis look hideous and with the belt across the waist, give me abreak....

Posted by: BOB VASSALLO at September 24, 2008 06:22 PM

I do not like the new uniforms, I hate that belt around the middle! They look dorky. I served in the mid '70's, our Class A's were super sharp! I also prefer the real stripes. I would not feel proud to wear those new uniforms.

Posted by: Sheri at September 24, 2008 06:21 PM

The last time this new design looked good was on Frank Luke in WW1. On the flip side, I don't know that Space command would be ready for Star Trek-new generations styles (Actors said they were uncomfortable.) I agree with other comments that indicate a need for a long term design that incorporates tradition, Aviation, utility and neatness.

Tradition calls for picking a historical high point, as done by the RAF and the battle of Britain. WW2 was notable for the US, but primarily under Army influence. One surviving item is the leather jacket, and another might be a modified Eisenhower Jacket that carried into the Fifties. Korea, the cold war, Vietnam and the gulf wars were such a mixture that one may just have to pick out the best of a wide spread of choices. My favorite was the dark blue shirt, with or without tie, which could be made in other materials than the wool. It looked sharp with the insignia on it. The light blue short sleeve was ok in warmer climes. Utility uniforms are just that. Whatever the BDU/Camo combination for a given theater should be common for all services except for insigia. Blue Camo does not make sense unless it blends in with concrete and sky for base use.

Posted by: Paul at September 24, 2008 06:15 PM

I keep going back and forth as to whether or not I like this at all (not that I have to wear it). I can't help feeling that, as always, at least the uniform doesn't look as bad on the men as it does on the women. I don't think the Air Force has ever had a great-looking uniform. While I think the resemblance to the Marine uniform is kind of neat....there's just something off about this one. Nonetheless, I was always proud to wear a U.S. military uniform. : )

Posted by: Jodi at September 24, 2008 06:15 PM

I am an Airforce veteran and the proposed changes do not look good at all; leave the service dress a lone

Posted by: Tyrone Garner at September 24, 2008 06:13 PM

I'm seeing an awful lot of comments on here that border from fairly well thought out to being silly to the point of being unworthy of retort. I will agree that spending money on the proper things (equipment, personnel welfare, etc) should always be paramount, but I think there's nothing wrong with changing the uniform to make the branch distinctive. As an airman in the 80s and 90s I was always struck by how the class As were frankly nothing more than blue versions of their Army counterparts. As a student of history, I personally love these new uniform designs. I think they're definitely much more military looking than the current American Airlines-looking class A's they're wearing now. I think the new proposed style is classy, sharp and respectful of the history of this service. It has my vote!

Posted by: Gilmeister at September 24, 2008 06:09 PM

Thank God I served in the Korean era and the uniforms (Olive or Blue) did not look like something from WW1. Those things are butt ugly.

Posted by: Frank at September 24, 2008 06:07 PM

Bad, ugly, expensive... I agree that of all the uniforms.. the USAF is not the snappiest... it was OK...(I had one) but thankfully the Army was there to make us look good... but this... man... I keep thinking I should Martin Landau wearing it with a robot next to him...or maybe Al Gore... well.. same thing.... Boy.. I hope this just goes away.

Posted by: Larry at September 24, 2008 06:04 PM

I Agree, UGLY just ain't the word for this WW 1 type uniform. As an ex airman who retired in 1999, I'm all for change, but forward not backward. What ARE they thinking? Those dress uniforms (pictured) look more like something from the end of the *nineteenth* century than the beginning of the twenty-first!

I again agree they should look badassedly modern as opposed to limply retro, as though stolen from a Star Wars film set and then dyed blue? Ya can't *use* the frickin' pockets and that dang belt really delivers that whole '80s leisure-suit look. Why not add bulging chaps, knee boots, and scarf while they're at it?

Posted by: Cliff Hearne at September 24, 2008 06:03 PM

I came to military.com to get away from partisan bickering that is basically tearing this country apart. I though that current service members and vets would dicuss issues and not bring partisan BS into it, but I can see now, that it's invaded every bit of the American culture.
You people should all be ashamed of yourselves, bashing another branch of the military. You serve and you serve proudly, no matter what branch. You are Americans, HAVE SOME PRIDE!

Posted by: Lon at September 24, 2008 05:56 PM

The uniform looks just like the Marine's
dress outfit. Do not like it!!!

Posted by: Norman Bush at September 24, 2008 05:51 PM

As to the new uniform design, no belt please. It's definitely not needed and certainly not sharp looking. If something were to be done I thing the rank ensigns could be redisigned with the fold over wing tips like we see in some ads. I however agree, that there are more important issue to the Air Force than a new uniform design. I was very proud to serve in the Air Force for 4 years of active duty. I worked with many great people and my tour at Andrews Air Base was a highly of my time in the service. I often wear a baseball cap with the the Air Force ensigna on it to let others know that this is an outstanding branch of our military. Thanks for letting me share.

Posted by: G. DeMay at September 24, 2008 05:46 PM

As a former member of the USAF I have to agree with the majority of the people posting on this subject...the Air Force doesn't need to have such a bad looking uniform. But what really bothers me is how much hostilily is felt by former, and current, members of the other services. Just remember that ALL of us served our country, and all of the services are guilty of wasting money on different projects. If you are mad about what you had to do in whatever branch of the services you were in verses what someone else did/or didn't have to do in another branch just remember that other than during Vietnam no one has been drafted for a very long time. You had the choice to join whatever service you wanted. Are you also mad about people within your respective service that are the not on the tip of the spear? At least we have all taken the step to defend our country, in one branch or another.

Posted by: Bobby at September 24, 2008 05:39 PM

Just one word; UGLY! Glad I retired five yrs ago, no need to wear antiques, let's move forward instead of going back.

Posted by: PR at September 24, 2008 05:25 PM

The uniform? So much for tradition. So much for style and class. So much for the professional military man or woman that we should represent. I am a retired officer from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. This proposed uniform is a disgrace to the service we honor everyday of our service. It is ugly to absurdity. It has the appearance of a communist dictator. For twenty three years I wore a uniform of which I was most proud. Why reinvent the wheel? Get a grip! Do you really think this uniform shows professional pride? Better start all over on this one. You can do so much better. (It is still UGLY!)

Posted by: Gary Norris at September 24, 2008 05:22 PM

Hmmmm.... I suppose Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker would appreciate these jackets (are they also wearing puttee's, and riding boots too?), but I think even he might be a bit uncomfortable in this, on a hot day in June-thru-August. Personally, I'd limit the dress uniform change to the "Bus-driver" hat, with a "hundred-mission-crunch" in it, for tradition from World War II...

Posted by: B52G gunner at September 24, 2008 05:21 PM

Hey!
Remember the last AF utility uniform proposal? Sky blue tunic and trousers with little white clouds all over them?
Serious!
They said concealment wasn't as much an issue as moral when you're hanging around an air field all day.
That about sums it up-hanging around!
Whatever the AF might have been, it's an country club now, wherein arrogance has replaced discipline, and money is of no object.
Clean it up, Airbags!
After working at Brooks AFB for 8 years, tranferring to an Army post was the best move of my life!

Posted by: clyde ward at September 24, 2008 05:18 PM

I like the Hap Arnold outfit. Looks military, as opposed to the near-civilian-sports jacket look of the last few years.
But, I'm reasonably sure I am the minority because I regretted the loss of the medic's standard smock back in the late 60s/early 70s. They were a pain the neck to wear, but they gave a professional look.

Posted by: Joe McAnally at September 24, 2008 05:07 PM

One style of uniform, different colors... whatever. Different hardware, chevrons and patches for different branches. Same cover, different colors, different hardware. Keep it simple, comfortable and utilitarian. I am sure all this can be accomplished and still have it look stylish.
But one military branch with different groups within it? Hmmm... like naval troops that include everything from river boats and subs to aircraft carriers and Coast Guard cutters... or air troops that include everything from Air Cav and CAS to comm birds and fast movers... ground combat troops that would include everything from Marines, Military Police and Armor to SEAL teams, Rangers and Infantry? You might save a bucket of money on uniforms but what a logistical nightmare. Nope, never happen. Everyone covets their history too much... but an interesting concept.

Posted by: 365 SPS at September 24, 2008 04:56 PM

The picture in this article is the General Billy Mitchel uniform, not the General Arnold uniform. The General Arnold uniform is more like the Blues from the 80's and early 90's.

Posted by: Tom at September 24, 2008 04:56 PM

Two Words. Sig Heil.

Posted by: Tamara Say at September 24, 2008 04:54 PM

Just a few words to add to the discussion.
1) Please stop slagging off the USAF. My old man was a real bastard but he was good at his job for many years....AFOSI(though they hardly ever wore uniforms!). My family is part of the USAF tradition and we're damn proud of it!
2) I agree, the many changes made to the USAF uniforms have been a huge waste of time and money.The redesign of the dress blues as shown above are ludicrous.Next they'll be suggesting silk scarves, riding staffs and monocles!
3) By the way, I'm unsure where the comment about the RAF uniforms was being directed but the RAF dress uniforms are actually pretty cool...and no one with an ounce of wit can honestly suggest the RAF lacks tradition.
4) Tally ho!!!

Posted by: BDM65 at September 24, 2008 04:51 PM

UGLY just ain't the word for this WW 1 type uniform. As an ex airman from the Cold War era, late 50s, I'm all for change, but forward not backward.

Posted by: Bill at September 24, 2008 04:46 PM

How would anybody take you seriously in that? What are they thinking? That's the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

Posted by: cbesh2 at September 24, 2008 04:40 PM

BOTTOM LINE THE UNIFORM COAT SUCKS AND IT LOOKS GAY !

Posted by: mike at September 24, 2008 04:35 PM

They look like Russian uniforms. I hate them

Posted by: Jack McCarty at September 24, 2008 04:32 PM

This uniform modification is a throw back to the airman of WWI. It is butt ugly. Airman should reject this lemon and put the funds towards a useful project, like pay etc.

Posted by: PastorMac at September 24, 2008 04:27 PM

You gotta be kidding me? Go back to the mid 70's please! Bring back the all season Class A's, the short sleeve and long sleeve light blue shirt and dark blue trouser combo's (cut the ol duffle bag down to something manageable), bring back the old AIR FORCE stripes, and of course the dark blue wool Class B shirt for those in colder weather climes. Quit messing around with what works best for the troops in the trenches (and on the flightlines) and use that money for better pay, allowances, and support services!!! Enough's enough you garret troopers!!!! No commoon sense!

Posted by: H in blue at September 24, 2008 04:06 PM

Ok I am not in the Air Force any more,and I miss it, BUT this new proposed uniform makes me glad I am out! Can you say U-G-L-Y!!!!! Please Top Brass put your minds to better use, like, hummm, here's an idea--THE WAR AND KEEPING OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN THE WAR SAFE!!!!!

Posted by: Ex Air Force at September 24, 2008 04:05 PM

I think the new look is sick. If the people who designed this Mandarin collar wants to have the SS look, then join the German military. And that's all I've got to say about that!

Posted by: John McCain at September 24, 2008 03:56 PM

Okay, I can understand the AF bashing about this. I'm AF and I think this is a real bad idea for a uniform. Sure, the current one looks like a bad banker's suit but changing the uniform aint' the answer to the many problems we are currently facing. I had the same problem switching to the ABUs. The AF had to have a distinctive look. Okay, staying with the BDUs would have been distinctive because the Army and MC changed theirs. How the hell did AF brass miss that one? Well, it was Gen Mosely, 'nuff said. But now, you stand AF and Army next to each other, step back about 20 feet and ignore the pockets on the sleeves and they look pretty damn similar. On that same note, AF should have just adopted the ACU. Lot lighter, more comfortable, and more functional. Wore them in Iraq (I deploy out witha joint command).

That coat with the mandarin collar needs to go. Looks like Waffen SS. All it needs is the Sam Brown belt and jack boots.

Posted by: Scott at September 23, 2008 05:52 AM

Ok, I got to say something. Every single one of you is so far behind, you're eating dust.

Tontochoc,
If you hadn't noticed, there's not a whole lot of room on this stupid new uniform for decs. Ribbons take up about 1/10th the space a medal does. I guarantee that officer has just as many ribbons as that SMSgt, if not more, and she has probably deployed as many times if not more, than he has. Get your facts straight before pointing your finger at an enlisted person just because they don't spend the taxpayers dollars flying circles to maintain their careers, falling asleep guarding nukes, and planning ceremonies and balls.

John B,
First of all, until about 2 weeks ago, the only time any troop ever had to wear their blues since 9/11 is if they were recruiting, in training, or in trouble. The US Air Force is moving away from being a "chair force", into a Combat Air Force. Security Forces no longer simply guard gates and pull you over for speeding on the base. My buddy in SF deployed a little while back, and he was working right along side Army and Marines, running convoys, and patrolling the streets of Iraq for bad guys.As an AMMO troop, I am expected to be ready at any time to deploy as an augmentee for DFP, convoy, and patrol duty. The only people not required for that duty are some kinds of maintainers and personnelists, and services.

Granted, now that the war is coming to a close, Gen. Schwartz has given the order for the wearing of blues more often for office personnel. But that's the same reg in any branch of the military. Yes, it's an image thing. And I don't care what you say, image is worth a lot. If I wore my stained BDU's in to meet the Wing Commander in order to get picked for some kind of decoration package, his first thought when he sees me is, Wow that airman looks like a dirtbag. But my buddy walks in for the same package, with the samer qualifications, in his dress blues looking all sharp, I guarantee that he'll be getting that decoration over me any day of the week. To the A1C trying to put on SrA, image is everything.

By the way, this picture, it's not our new dress coat. The new dress coat looks a lot more similar to the older Army dress jacket, except it will be blue. A belt is annoying, but it's a lot better than looking like an airline flight attendant. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: AMMOUSAF at September 23, 2008 05:26 AM

HAHAHH what joke. the chair force has the disciplne of a wet paper bag.

Posted by: slntax at September 22, 2008 06:23 PM

You can tell the chairborne commando from the warrior. The warrior has only three medals whilst the chair borne commando has enough bars to appear trhey have been in every conflict since WW1! General Pershing would have approved of the dress uniform - didn't he wear an olive drab version?

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Posted by: dulex4less at September 19, 2008 08:41 PM

Alright thats fair, the Airforce has no culture like the Marines, the Army, or even the Navy. I'm in the Airforce and I think it's stupid to change our uniform and they mirco manage 2 much and yea alot of the ppl in the Airforce are fat but I rather be in a branch were I don't get shot for stupid leadership like the Marines or The Army. U guys think ur the toughest pieces of shit on the earth jst cuz u run in2 bullets. The Airforce has Spec Ops like any other branch an i'm betting more then 99.9% that they couldnt make it thru the training. Its funny u could be a Marine and do Finance or be a freakin Cook an the world thinks ur hot shit. Hey look up Airforce Tacp, CCT, Pararescue,or S.E.R.E then tell me what u think. The Airforce is taking conveys from the Army so think twice cuz yea were changing but its cuz we wanta step up an make a bigger difference or if you dont understand maybe its cuz u got a 3 on your A.S.V.A.B

Posted by: Hooyah!!! at September 19, 2008 06:34 PM

is the AF really a military branch, they don't fight (except over uniforms and money) they are only concerned about "lookin good".
break up the AF and let the other services incorporate it into their own.

Posted by: pvtrick at September 19, 2008 04:51 PM

As usual, Bryant Jordan gives us great coverage on current Air Force issues. I couldn't agree more with the new Chief of Staff about putting the fluff and stuff on the back burner. As far as the "Hap Arnold" uniform goes, I have always thought it was a retro look the Air Force would be better without. While you should never forget history, you should never go back to the days of biplanes, .30 caliber carbines, horses and buggies either.

Posted by: Terry at September 19, 2008 03:14 PM

Outstanding uniform!

P.J. Busche
SSgt, USMC retired
Semper Fidelis

Posted by: P.J. Busche at September 19, 2008 03:09 PM

Here's an idea.

Dark blue Dockers and a light blue Arrow shirt from Mervyn's. Total cost about fifty bucks.

Done and done.

I can haz AF Secretary job now?

Posted by: Grandjester at September 19, 2008 02:35 PM

No comment on the dress uniform; everybody else has done that.

I've got a problem with the BDUs with a permanent crease. First I've heard about that. It's a bad idea that's been tried and discarded before.

Back in the 70s some chowderhead had the same bright idea for the Army utilities. They issued polyester/cotton blend, permanent press. We called them "Pentagon pants".

Problem is, polyester/cotton doesn't breathe, and a lot of your Army bases are in the deep South. That's a recipe for heat fatigue at best, and heat stroke at worst, particularly during PT. Anybody who could get away with it bought, traded or stole the old cotton utilities.

I realize that pretty much everyone's got PT uniforms now, and some blends are warmer in temperate or cold climates. Maybe a polyester or nylon blend makes sense. Maybe the acquisition folks actually thought it through, and have their reasons for the selection.

Still, IMHO, permanent press is a bad idea. You start trading a utility and comfort for a crease, that's just the beginning of a long chain of bad ideas.

Posted by: demophilus at September 19, 2008 12:51 PM

Can't resist one more swipe on this topic or actually an extension of it. Namely spending other peoples money. We've all seen how $ works in the military. 'Use it or lose' it is the phrase. Justification letters to get a ?% increase next FY. Always more, never less. Some people took it as a game to see how much they could pad the figures. Took it as a source of pride like it was their job to waste limited resources. It's from this mentality that springs these $ wasting uniform changes and costs American lives in the end because there just isn't anymore left in the budget for protection or personnel. Face it, we got alot of 'image' people floating around with the wrong priorities and no one putting them in line. Lots of scared people that don't want to rock the boat. My contention is that if you don't rock it, it's gonna sink. Snap out of the dine in or mess nite mode and get back to business 100% of the time. Forget about DC dinners and receptions and reaping (raping) the rewards of the tax dollar. By the way, I've been to them all and not by choice either. STOP spending other peoples money like it's yours!!! the Gunny p.s. Sorry Air Force but I have to kick you once more at least. Reminds me years ago when I went aboard my first AFB in 71. First thing I noticed was that you all had friggin banana splits and sundaes with all the toppings in the chow hall. We at Pendleton had dixie cups without enough spoons. Was like that for years both ways. You all had lithographic art work in frames on the walls and we had left over recruiting posters with scotch tape. You had carpet and we had tile. You sent 5 people TDY and put them up in a fancy hotel with a rental car and we sent 1 that stayed in a transit barracks on base and used a motor pool vehicle. I never had much respect for you after that. Not sour grapes guys. Just sour on the way you did and continue to do business. I'm done :(

Posted by: John B at September 19, 2008 12:39 PM

46 years ago when I joined the Air Force, I was issued 3 fatigue uniforms, they consisted of green shirts and gray pants, at the time they were changing I believe from gray to green fatigues. I was issued two dress blues uniforms, one for winter and one for summer, plus the blue wool overcoat that went to my mothers attic the first time I went home on leave to never leave till we cleaned it out after she died. I was also issued three 505 tan uniforms and to go along with them, the junjle Jim jacked, the shorts and knee socks to go along with it. In twent four years they changed the dress blues twice, got rid of the winter blues when they cam in with the all season blues, which was pretty nice uniform. They changed the 505's to 1505's and then to the light blue short sleeve blue shirt and blue plants. Then along came McPeak who want everybody to look like the Navy with the braid on the sleeve for the officers and changed the enlisted stripes to mimic the Army and Marines enlisted ranks. I guess he must have had a desire to be in the Navy. I don't remember the generals name who took over after McPeak. The first thing he did was get rid of the Navy look alike uniform. I wish he would have changed the enlisted ranks back to the old ones. Air Force history, which a lot of writers talk about. We don't need to look like the Army or Marines. One write suggested we go back to the Ike jacket, which I agree with. Plus bring back the dark blue wool shirt for winter wear. All these uniform changes are stupid, espically with the cost for uniforms today. BDU's over a hundred dollars is stupid. What the Air Force needs is a Curtis LeMay and lets get back to the real Air Force. SAC, TAC, MAC and ADC. The Air Force Leadership the last 15 years has left a lot to be desired. Enough!!!

Posted by: P at September 19, 2008 12:36 PM

This thing is still hanging around? I sent this up over two years ago. And no, it is not 'mock Leatherneck', although I can see how one might think so. See my old post at: http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/2006/05/air-force-changing-uniform-it-must-be.html

I think it would be better described as 'Retro-Rickenbacker' with a poorly selected (not structural enough) material....or perhaps British Bobby Blues?

Posted by: SMSgt Mac at September 19, 2008 11:58 AM

Mock leathernecks!!!

Posted by: Somerville Slim at September 19, 2008 11:24 AM

THAT'S IT! The final straw as far as I am concerned, subordinate the AF back to the Army they are like effing children and cannot be trusted to manage their own affairs whether multi-Billion tankers or changing uniforms.

Just ridiculous.

Posted by: Grandjester at September 19, 2008 11:07 AM

The Air Force has one big problem it doen't know who they want to be. I have served in both the Marine Corps, and the Air Force and let me tell you the Marines don't have an identity problem why because they teach their people the history of the Corps and they know who they are. The Air force seems to run away from theirs, the Marines have not changed their uniform in decades except the combat uniform they do that to keep up with the times. The Air Force better start getting its act together and start spending money where it has to on its people and its gear. The next few yrs will be hard ones on all the services because as always our fearless leaders will start cutting military spending to save money and the military will be the first ones on the hit list, and uniforms should be the last thing on anyones minds.

Posted by: Carlos at September 19, 2008 09:33 AM

As a 22 year veteran of the USAF (retired in 1992), I never understood why general officers wasted time on uniforms. I remember once that the TAC/CC wanted to change the flight suit to blue. With all the problems we have today, I don't understand why the USAF can't get their act together. Someone should make a prioritized list of what needs solving and then tackle them. I'm sure a new dress uniform wouldn't make the top 1000 things that need attention!!!!

Posted by: Bill Roberts at September 19, 2008 09:25 AM

You people still don't get it do you. You're still talkin style not function. "Looks better" is irrelevent to a combat attitude. Forget the damn uniforms! Wounded and dying people could give a rats about looks. Try assigning everyone on the uniform boards to a war zone. Put them in a Humvee protected by dress uniforms and see if their attitude changes. Not one cent for anything but the mission and welfare of out people.Not one minute of time spent on anything but the essentials. Do you get it or what?????? Maybe you have the mindset of "acceptable casualities". If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. the Gunny p.s. Anybody remember all the nice pretty uniforms that the British and French wore as the lost their wars against us. Too many tea parties and prima donna aristocracy running the show. Basically people with too much money and most of it not their own. "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" Santayana

Posted by: John B at September 19, 2008 09:08 AM

Looks alot better than the aweful looking uniform the Army is bringing out. At least it has a belt

Posted by: Andrew Schober at September 19, 2008 08:36 AM

I'm a twenty year veteran security policemen of the Air Force. During my time in, we changed dress coats from the 1950's coat, not a bad looking coat, to the streamlined Airline Pilot's dress coat, still not bad looking. Of course since it was a uniform change for style and not any functional reason, we were forced to spend approximately $200.00 (no clothing allowance increase) to purchase it. Now here we are locked in global conflict with the average troop not having time to even wear a dress uniform, will be forced to spend that hard earned combat pay on this "throw-back" monstrosity. Shouldn't they get their nuclear program in order and the tanker situation over before they tackle the serious issues of new coats and underwear?

Posted by: sp4life at September 19, 2008 08:14 AM

Gotta take this one one step further to hopefully shock some of you into reality. Not only do we need one uniform but it should be the same one for all US forces. BIG savings, ease of logistics and reduction of paperwork. Want to show the world were serious about winning our wars? Cut out all the fat and waste first. Even to the point of creating just one branch of the military and calling it the United States Armed Forces. We could still have our respective missions but under one flag and suit. The whole idea of seperate services needs to be resolved if we are to be able to put 100% of our $ toward winning our conflicts and caring for our personnel. Sound radical? Sure is but anything else is a failure to address todays reality and aids the enemy. Until we as a military community get serious on this subject and quit living in the past we are gonna trade casualities for tradition and worse yet, for style. the Gunny p.s. and yes this is comming from a retired Marine so don't try and tell me about tradition. Get real people. Tradition, like the Constitution, wasn't ment to be a suicide pact.

Posted by: John B at September 19, 2008 08:07 AM

Glad to see that McPeak and Moseley had their priorities straight.

Posted by: Janiz98 at September 19, 2008 08:04 AM

All services need just one uniform. Combat attire. Anything else is just vanity and don't give me this tradition trash either. We're talking either $ and time spent on style vs $ and time spent on getting our real job done. Protecting the USA, not pulling 'dog and pony' shows for somebodies ego or enjoyment. You wanna be a clothes horse? Do it on your off duty time and with your own damn money. Anybody remember we're at war? the Gunny

Posted by: John B at September 19, 2008 07:27 AM

...and poor General Allardice. I served with him and he is an out standing pilot and warrior, and the AF reduces him to being a fashion model for a patheic uniform! I swear that is pain in his face!

Posted by: Frank at September 19, 2008 07:05 AM

When, oh when will the AF Settle on a proper military uniform. I spent 24 years in and my father 20 and it is ridiculous that we have separate uniforms. Look at the Marines, you could put 3 generations of Marines in a room and they would all look the same! Professional and Military. The damn AF is over 60 years old and still has no discernalbe history or image. This is really getting sad. I don't what is worse, the uniform or the atrocity that is the AF Memorial I drive by every day on my way to work. I get now end of greif from my USN, US Army and USMC brothers and sisters everday about the AF...or as they call it "the country club military" How can we be taken serious with all this idiocy going on? All that history we have from WWII as the AAC and then from 1947 on, when we keep doing and showcases the idiocy of our constant uniform changes. Lets get a professional military uniform, (Key MILITARY!) designed and implemented once and for all and stick to it!!! No more BS!

Posted by: Frank at September 19, 2008 07:03 AM

Please, please, PLEASE don't do this to us again!! Every uniform change means hundreds of dollars our family could better spend elsewhere, and many hours for me to tailor and sew to get everything just right. It's just not fair to spring these expensive changes on your troops (and taxpayers) for no good reason. Who cares about the uniform? As long as it's comfortable and covers your privates it should do. Which brings me to the current 'new' PT uniform--Please, please, PLEASE change that!! The swishing drives me nuts and the wierd material chafes so much my husband has to wear bike shorts underneath. The shirts are thin and show EVERYBODY's nipples distractingly, and I have actually seen some unfortunate men's balls showing in certain exercises at the gym. It's horrible! Who thinks this stuff up? Maybe if we weren't all in shock staring at the people running around with their privates on showcase in the new PT gear, we would have noticed the missing nukes sooner...

Posted by: The Wife at September 19, 2008 04:07 AM

Your Tax Dollars well spent!

Posted by: factoryidiot at September 18, 2008 10:20 PM

Confusing with the MC Dress Uniform despite red trim for MC uniforms.
Very 19th century looking for a Future Air Force-
I say Revive the US Army Ike jacket for the new AF Uniform for Enlisted & Officers.
Totally revised Ike jacket look from WW2 era.
Nice.
Dump this uniform look.
Ick.
TOO dated.
Or give copies to the Marines.

Posted by: stephen russell at September 18, 2008 10:19 PM

They still look like bus drivers. Oh, sorry. Bus drivers get tailored uniforms. Can they make those Capt. Kangaroo pockets any bigger?

Posted by: SmedleyButler at September 18, 2008 09:56 PM

What's with the American Flag being incorrectly placed on the shelf in the background? At this point the Air Force should go ahead and turn over their command to Fed-Ex at least they know what their heritage is! We can even make UPS a fighter squadron and train Hollywood actors/actresses to be fighter pilots while filming the next Transformers movie! Better yet lets just make the AF a cesspool of folks who don't earn their wages and give them all the benefits other services rate and throw in extra benefits to keep them fat and happy until 19 years of service is completed and then throw everyone one out before they rate their retirement! Oh what's that? They already do that? I guess I didn't get that e-mail on my government issued blackberry! Before you chairmen get all in a huff be sure to put your world of warcraft on pause, tell your chat buddies you'll "BRB", takeoff your earphones/bluetooth devices, e-mail your first shirt and request leave for 180+ days, and ask Michael Bay (your actual CO) if it's ok to leave the set, I mean base, to come get yer 6 o'clock destroyed! Oh and the "BABY BLUE" suits you all real well!

SEMPER FI!

Posted by: Mike at September 18, 2008 09:14 PM

After 23 years now in the AF/ANG I've seen a lot of questionable uniform changes. Anyone remember the dress blues where the officers had the strips on the sleeves of the dress coat to show rank? I had several officer friends that had to spend serious money for new uniforms then just a few years later they had to go and buy new uniforms again. The AF needs to settle on one uniform for all, and then leave it ALONE! Personally I like the dress uniform that I wear now (which I wear maybe twice a year) has a professional look and is easy to maintain. The "Hap Arnold" uniform looks uncomfortable and the collar could be hot to wear. Maybe we need to go back the the heavy wool uniforms of yesteryear, NOT!
Lets spend the money where it is needed to be spent not where it isn't needed

Posted by: Scott at September 18, 2008 08:50 PM

What's with the American Flag being incorrectly placed on the shelf in the background? At this point the Air Force should go ahead and turn over their command to Fed-Ex at least they know what their heritage is! We can even make UPS a fighter squadron and train Hollywood actors/actresses to be fighter pilots while filming the next Transformers movie! Better yet lets just make the AF a cesspool of folks who don't earn their wages and give them all the benefits other services rate and throw in extra benefits to keep them fat and happy until 19 years of service is completed and then throw everyone one out before they rate their retirement! Oh what's that? They already do that? I guess I didn't get that e-mail on my government issued blackberry! Before you chairmen get all in a huff be sure to put your world of warcraft on pause, tell your chat buddies you'll "BRB", takeoff your earphones/bluetooth devices, e-mail your first shirt and request leave for 180+ days, and ask Michael Bay (your actual CO) if it's ok to leave the set, I mean base, to come get yer a-- destroyed! Oh and the "BABY BLUE" suits you all real well!

SEMPER FI!

Posted by: Air Force Brat at September 18, 2008 08:49 PM

Are you serious?
The belt is idiotic unless you taper the jacket, then build it accordingly to lay on the hips.
The uniform is supposed to be smooth with sharp lines.
The woman got big bazooms got to be tapered!
The guy on the right looks more like an nazi "SS" officer.
I wore the AF Blues.
In my opinion they always were the bottom of the dress uniform chain. Dull as hell.
A sharp dressed marine asked me one time "don't the AF have any dress blues? 20 mins later I told him "your right!"
Then I spent the night in a local holding cell, he spent it at the local ER!

Posted by: nick at September 18, 2008 08:05 PM

Two words:

Total crap.

The USAF has always had the worst of the worst when it comes to uniforms. I remember the V neck t-shirt debacle of the late 60's because of some general's wife not liking to see a t-shirt peeking out of the neck of a uniform shirt.

Money being wasted that should be better spent. Try spending some of that money on securing the nukes instead.

Posted by: Jack D. Ripper at September 18, 2008 06:06 PM

Wow, just add some top secret space battleships and aliens and you've got Battlestar Galactica. Haha, wow. When the Air Force complains about budget constraints I'll think of the 200 mill that went to this.

Posted by: Matt at September 18, 2008 06:04 PM

The outfit pictured in this article is ludicrous! ! Ck out what the RAF has been wareing since 1916, at least Gen Schwartz put in the proper place

Posted by: mulehead at September 18, 2008 05:49 PM

The outfit pictured in this article is ludicrous! ! Ck out what the RAF has been wareing since 1916, at least Gen Schwartz put in the proper place

Posted by: mulehead at September 18, 2008 05:49 PM

The outfit pictured in this article is ludicrous! ! Ck out what the RAF has been wareing since 1916, at least Gen Schwartz put in the proper place

Posted by: mulehead at September 18, 2008 05:48 PM

I don't like these uniforms. The belt is an additional step to get dressed, and it don't even look that good. Not to mention it'll create creases on the coat.

If they want to look more "military", we should just give them the Navy's Aviation Working Greens and save ourselves some money. The AWGs look better than anything the USAF ever had.

Or dress them up in the Army's new ASU. The AF was born from the Army after all. Respect your lineage. It also looks better than anything the USAF ever had.

If they do go through with a uniform change, please at the very least get rid of the "Air Force blue" color. Switch to a darker blue; the current tone looks like a worn out polyester suit.

Posted by: G at September 18, 2008 05:20 PM

As an aside, the AF is not alone in this. While the green Army dress uniform was odd, the new "New York Doorman" look is not an improvement.

Posted by: Moose at September 18, 2008 04:51 PM

Too much, Mac.

AF Dress Unis DO suck, but on the long list of changes needed that HAS to be at the very bottom. And when the issue DOES come up again, adopting Hap Arnold's threads sends a pretty poor message. People who remember Armnold might not remember him so fondly, and those who don't more often equate high collars with this:
http://www.shadowdalecreations.com/imperial_officer_1.jpg

Posted by: Moose at September 18, 2008 04:48 PM

I wonder just how much this "long history of changing or tweaking uniforms" has cost, in total?

Posted by: Mac at September 18, 2008 04:31 PM

That is an old picture and does not depict the "final" prototype. The belt remains, but not the choker collars.

Regardless, most people in the Air Force hate these "new" uniforms and really don't want to change.

Posted by: gonoles74 at September 18, 2008 03:53 PM

Are they planning to bring back dirigibles and biplanes too?

Posted by: A. Nonymous at September 18, 2008 03:09 PM

Having been in the Navy, sometimes uniforms are reeeeaaallllly important thing.
Nothing worse than dressing like an idiot because someone did a hundred years ago.
How hard is it to make a good uniform? It seems really hard when you put a military committee in charge.
Why not sub it out to designers and have a competition....But that would make sense....And they would probably pick the worst one anyway....

Posted by: Dennis at September 18, 2008 03:06 PM

The AF is a complete joke!

Posted by: thebronze at September 18, 2008 03:01 PM

What ARE they thinking? Those dress uniforms (pictured) look more like something from the end of the *nineteenth* century than the beginning of the twenty-first!

Shouldn't they look badassedly modern as opposed to limply retro, as though stolen from a Star Wars film set and then dyed blue? Ya can't *use* the frickin' pockets and that dang belt really delivers that whole '80s leisure-suit look. Why not add bulging chaps, knee boots, and scarf while they're at it?

Posted by: Refunk at September 18, 2008 02:57 PM

Seriosly, the Air Force wonders why the other services can't stand them? $100+ Million just to add a freaking belt to their jacket. Next thing you know they'll come up with a helmet that won't restrict natural hair movement. What a freaking joke.

Posted by: JEFF at September 18, 2008 02:40 PM