Replica A Lange & Sohne
Replica Accutron
Replica Audemars Piguet
Replica Baume & Mercier
Replica Bell & Ross
Replica Breitling
Replica Bvlgari
Replica Cartier
Replica Chanel
Replica Chopard
Replica Christian Bernard
Replica Christian Dior
Replica Citizen
Replica Coach
Replica Concord
Replica Corum
Replica D&G
Replica DKNY
Replica Ebel
Replica ESQ
Replica Fendi
Replica Fila
Replica Franck Muller
Replica Girard Perregaux
Replica Givenchy
Replica Gucci
Replica Guess
Replica Hamilton
Replica Haurex
Replica Invicta
Replica IWC
Replica Jacob & Co
Replica Jacques Lemans
Replica Jaeger LeCoultre
Replica Levis
Replica Longines
Replica Mont Blanc
Replica Movado
Replica Omega
Replica Orient
Replica Oris
Replica Panerai
Replica Patek Philippe
Replica Piaget
Replica Rado
Replica Rolex
Replica Sector
Replica Seiko
Replica Skagen
Replica Swatch
Replica Swiss
Replica Swiss Army Victorinox
Replica Tag Heuer
Replica Technomarine
Replica Timberland
Replica Tissot
Replica Ulysse Nardin
Replica Vacheron Constantin
Replica Wenger
Replica Wittnauer
Replica Zenith
Replica Zodiac ecommerce
open source
shop
online shopping
Rolex Sports watches
Rolex Datejusts watches
A Lange & Sohne watches
Aigner watches
Alain Silberstein watches
Audemars Piguet watches
Bell & Ross watches
Breguet watches
Breitling watches
Bvlgari watches
Cartier watches
Chanel watches
Chopard watches
Concord watches
Corum watches
Dior watches
Dolce & Gabbana watches
Ebel watches
Emporio Armani watches
Glashutte watches
Gucci watches
Hermes Watches
IWC watches
Jacob & Co watches
Jaeger LeCoultre watches
Longines watches
Louis Vuitton watches
Mont Blanc watches
Movado watches
Omega watches
Oris watches
Panerai watches
Patek Philippe watches
Philip Stein watches
Porsche Design watches
Rado watches Roger
Roger Dubuis watches
Sarcar watches
Tag Heuer watches
Technomarine watches
Vacheron Constantin watches
Zenith watches ecommerce
open source
shop
online shopping

Posted by: luxury watch at April 17, 2009 05:05 AM

Hey mister name caller,why is he a coward by stating historical facts?You are a Nazi in half,it
shows its morphe!Satan,transforms into an angel of
light.

Posted by: raftoni at April 4, 2009 11:36 AM

That is the point:Choose your side/God!And no matter what,it produces wars and fights etc...You
can't be anything else,therefore,be a man!The Book
James explains wars...But your side won't listen!

Posted by: raftoni at April 4, 2009 11:33 AM

You are blind as Gaza is rich!Israel is winning the war...Its plain as day!Anyone who is able to do what they do,is a miracle...America,tries the exact tactics and can't produce the same...Its a Jewish victory world...Our victory in Iraq started
by:using Israeli tactics.

Posted by: raftoni at April 4, 2009 11:29 AM

hi all..
many people claim that God is in their side, the statement like..Allah will punish israel and many more statements that made Allah looks BAD, GOD who just love the war...
ask to ourself, is it our trully GOD?
Jew, Palestinians or other nations, all..have the same right to live, to love and to believe.

Posted by: Denny at January 12, 2009 06:57 AM

hi all..
many people claim that God is in their side, the statement like..Allah will punish israel and many more statements that made Allah looks BAD, GOD who just love the war...
ask to ourself, is it our trully GOD?
Jew, Palestinians or other nations, all..have the same right to live, to love and to believe.

Posted by: Denny at January 12, 2009 06:56 AM

Read Revelations.....Israel will prevail....It's in the Bible and God said so. Countries such as Russia, China, Saudi, Lebanon, Syria, Iran will suffer deeply under Israel's might.

Posted by: Maverick at January 9, 2009 07:14 AM

Reply to: Joe at January 6, 2009 10:25 AM

Actually the problem is more about which God has given the land to which people. Yaweh or Alah / Jew or Arab.

I would look for a suitable cave in a remote area and stock up because it sure looks as though we are going to blow ourselves back to the stone age.

Posted by: Stargate at January 9, 2009 06:45 AM

Guys!!!!

Every one is just taking sides and fighting one another. If I were an arms dealer I could make a mint suplying you all with weapons.
Can there be no debate as to how to solve this crisis without weapons.

Posted by: Stargate at January 9, 2009 06:31 AM

Reply to dave m at January 6, 2009 08:48 AM

Big space daddy in the sky!!! AAAAH! Now you are talking....

Is this not the real issue as to why there is no peace at the Geopolitical center of our world?

But with 3/4 of the worlds population believing in Big Daddy you have a problem. How can you convince us that Big Daddy is all just imagination.

Posted by: Stargate at January 9, 2009 06:25 AM

Answer to Michael at January 5, 2009 06:51 PM

The Russians and other arms vendors kept the Arabs well stocked. Israel was always outnumbered and out gunned. YET THEY WON.
Arabs need to learn not to mess with Gods people.

Posted by: Stargate at January 9, 2009 05:41 AM

""You are such a coward. A narrow minded psycopath paid for by the zionist extermination machine.""

-Your just revealing who you are by every little excremental ejection you make, little islamist facsist.

""Do you know that Isreal places it army amonsgt civilian in Gaza? they seize their houses and use them as launching spots so stop that crap about Hamas.""

-Its always funny when you try to turn reality around, if not for the death loving hamas terrorists hiding amongst civilians there would be no need for Israel to go in there and clean it up.

""You are such a brainwashed little fool that I am not surprised that zionist extermination machine is using you in its propaganda.""

-Hehe more of the hate, Just keep it coming little racist. Being called brainmwashed by an islamist is like being called mad by charles manson, its sting is very mild.

""You fail in your dubious actions. The true people of the world are not as dumb as you so dont think we buy your crap.""

-Europeans are waking up to the reality of islam every day, your sick and twisted cult will not be allowed to destroy the world or bring it back into the dark ages.

""You know, my mother used to call me a Jew when I was younger. She said I was wicked and heartless. I never knew why this should earn me the name "a Jew". It is only after I started getting information of the Isreal/Palestinain conflict during my late teens that I knew why my dear mother called me a Jew.""

-That your mother is a racist bitch comes as no surprise, and shes raised a proper little bastard to boost.

""I am so happy that the strong will of the Palestinian people will never be broken no matter what force the giant golliath uses to crush them. Isreal can test one of its atomic weapons on the loving and peaceful people of Palestine but they still wontdie.""

-the psychopatic murderers that run "palestine" will be dealth with one way or another, they are about as peace loving as rabid hyenas and must be put down as such.

""Their courage even at the end of the barel deserves my praise. No matter how long it takes, how many lives are lost, Vitory will be that of the Palestinians.""

-These cowards that use children as shields and store weapons in schools and hospitals can never win anything, and offer only death to those that follow them and the example of their prophet the massmurdering child molesting pedophilic monster mohammed and his sock puppet allah.

Isreal is run by a group of drug taking psycopaths who shal all end in the way of Areil Sharon, God willing.

-Israel represents the finest of human civilization a people who contributes to our shared evolution like no other group of people.

""Amen.""

-Im sure you mean allah ackbar your pretence to be anything but a muslim have failed.

Posted by: Armadillo at January 7, 2009 04:32 PM

""You are such a coward. A narrow minded psycopath paid for by the zionist extermination machine.""

-Your just revealing who you are by every little excremental ejection you make, little islamist facsist.

""Do you know that Isreal places it army amonsgt civilian in Gaza? they seize their houses and use them as launching spots so stop that crap about Hamas.""

-Its always funny when you try to turn reality around, if not for the death loving hamas terrorists hiding amongst civilians there would be no need for Israel to go in there and clean it up.

""You are such a brainwashed little fool that I am not surprised that zionist extermination machine is using you in its propaganda.""

-Hehe more of the hate, Just keep it coming little racist. Being called brainmwashed by an islamist is like being mad by charles manson, its sting is very mild.

""You fail in your dubious actions. The true people of the world are not as dumb as you so dont think we buy your crap.""

-Europeans are waking up to the reality of islam every day, your sick and twisted cult will not be allowed to destroy the world.

""You know, my mother used to call me a Jew when I was younger. She said I was wicked and heartless. I never knew why this should earn me the name "a Jew". It is only after I started getting information of the Isreal/Palestinain conflict during my late teens that I knew why my dear mother called me a Jew.""

-That your mother is a racist bitch comes as no surprise, and shes raised a proper little bastard to boost.

""I am so happy that the strong will of the Palestinian people will never be broken no matter what force the giant golliath uses to crush them. Isreal can test one of its atomic weapons on the loving and peaceful people of Palestine but they still wontdie.""

-the psychopatic murderers that run "palestine" will be dealth with one way or another, they are about as peace loving as rabid hyenas and must be put down as such.

""Their courage even at the end of the barel deserves my praise. No matter how long it takes, how many lives are lost, Vitory will be that of the Palestinians.""

-These cowards that use children as shields and store weapons in schools and hospitals can never win anything, and offer only death to those that follow them and the example of their prophet the massmurdering child molesting pedophilic monster mohammed.

Isreal is run by a group of drug taking psycopaths who shal all end in the way of Areil Sharon, God willing.

-Israel represents the finest in human civilization a people who contributes to our shared evolution like no other group of people.

""Amen.""

-Im sure you mean allah ackbar your pretence to be anything but a muslim have failed.

Posted by: Armadillo at January 7, 2009 04:16 PM

Lament, you now call yourself Armadillo.

Well, you can call yourself any name. Maybe a Pighead should be the next.

You are such a coward. A narrow minded psycopath paid for by the zionist extermination machine.

Do you know that Isreal places it army amonsgt civilian in Gaza? they seize their houses and use them as launching spots so stop that crap about Hamas.

You are such a brainwashed little fool that I am not surprised that zionist extermination machine is using you in its propaganda.

You fail in your dubious actions. The true people of the world are not as dumb as you so dont think we buy your crap.

You know, my mother used to call me a Jew when I was younger. She said I was wicked and heartless. I never knew why this should earn me the name "a Jew". It is only after I started getting information of the Isreal/Palestinain conflict during my late teens that I knew why my dear mother called me a Jew.

I am so happy that the strong will of the Palestinian people will never be broken no matter what force the giant golliath uses to crush them. Isreal can test one of its atomic weapons on the loving and peaceful people of Palestine but they still wontdie.

Their courage even at the end of the barel deserves my praise. No matter how long it takes, how many lives are lost, Vitory will be that of the Palestinians.

Isreal is run by a group of drug taking psycopaths who shal all end in the way of Areil Sharon, God willing.

Amen.

Posted by: Nick at January 7, 2009 03:16 PM

""America and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in ostracising and demonising the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed. ""'

-That really is the worst pile of crap Ive read in a while, the hamas government is demonizing itself, its a fascist mass murdering entity, who preaches not just the removal of Israel but the death of every jew on the planet. Hamas represents unfreedom in its purest form, they are not freedomfighers and can never be freedomfighters because what their fighting for has nothing to do with freedom or justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsvqcp4aWF8

-The "palestinians" are a very convienient way for the surrounding arab states to hold focus away from their own internal problems.

""As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real
victim.""

War is not a mathematical equation, being the seemingly weaker party does not make you right or a victim especially not in the case of the religous facsists in Hamas. Israels blessing is their talents, if the arabs surrounding Israel had half the ability of the Israelis, Israel would have been overrun and destroyed already.

As for the civilian casualities their not even close to the deadly cost of the bombing of serbia by Nato, but with hamas using schools and hospitals for ammo dumps and firing positions Im sure they will rise, all on the head of the Hamas government.

This "professor" just demonstrates how worthless that title has become over the years, hes just another leftist talking head, his apparent jewish name does not give him any more weight.

Posted by: Armadillo at January 7, 2009 12:26 PM

How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastropheOxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions.

Avi Shlaim The Guardian, Wednesday 7 January 2009 Article history

The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question.

I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.

Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.

Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism.

In August 2005 a Likud government headed by Ariel Sharon staged a unilateral Israeli pullout from Gaza, withdrawing all 8,000 settlers and destroying the houses and farms they had left behind. Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement, conducted an effective campaign to drive the Israelis out of Gaza. The withdrawal was a humiliation for the Israeli Defence Forces. To the world, Sharon presented the withdrawal from Gaza as a contribution to peace based on a two-state solution. But in the year after, another 12,000 Israelis settled on the West Bank, further reducing the scope for an independent Palestinian state. Land-grabbing and peace-making are simply incompatible. Israel had a choice and it chose land over peace.

The real purpose behind the move was to redraw unilaterally the borders of Greater Israel by incorporating the main settlement blocs on the West Bank to the state of Israel. Withdrawal from Gaza was thus not a prelude to a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority but a prelude to further Zionist expansion on the West Bank. It was a unilateral Israeli move undertaken in what was seen, mistakenly in my view, as an Israeli national interest. Anchored in a fundamental rejection of the Palestinian national identity, the withdrawal from Gaza was part of a long-term effort to deny the Palestinian people any independent political existence on their land.

Israel's settlers were withdrawn but Israeli soldiers continued to control all access to the Gaza Strip by land, sea and air. Gaza was converted overnight into an open-air prison. From this point on, the Israeli air force enjoyed unrestricted freedom to drop bombs, to make sonic booms by flying low and breaking the sound barrier, and to terrorise the hapless inhabitants of this prison.

Israel likes to portray itself as an island of democracy in a sea of authoritarianism. Yet Israel has never in its entire history done anything to promote democracy on the Arab side and has done a great deal to undermine it. Israel has a long history of secret collaboration with reactionary Arab regimes to suppress Palestinian nationalism. Despite all the handicaps, the Palestinian people succeeded in building the only genuine democracy in the Arab world with the possible exception of Lebanon. In January 2006, free and fair elections for the Legislative Council of the Palestinian Authority brought to power a Hamas-led government. Israel, however, refused to recognise the democratically elected government, claiming that Hamas is purely and simply a terrorist organisation.

America and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in ostracising and demonising the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed.

As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes. Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity.

Like other radical movements, Hamas began to moderate its political programme following its rise to power. From the ideological rejectionism of its charter, it began to move towards pragmatic accommodation of a two-state solution. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a national unity government that was ready to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with Israel. Israel, however, refused to negotiate with a government that included Hamas.

It continued to play the old game of divide and rule between rival Palestinian factions. In the late 1980s, Israel had supported the nascent Hamas in order to weaken Fatah, the secular nationalist movement led by Yasser Arafat. Now Israel began to encourage the corrupt and pliant Fatah leaders to overthrow their religious political rivals and recapture power. Aggressive American neoconservatives participated in the sinister plot to instigate a Palestinian civil war. Their meddling was a major factor in the collapse of the national unity government and in driving Hamas to seize power in Gaza in June 2007 to pre-empt a Fatah coup.

The war unleashed by Israel on Gaza on 27 December was the culmination of a series of clashes and confrontations with the Hamas government. In a broader sense, however, it is a war between Israel and the Palestinian people, because the people had elected the party to power. The declared aim of the war is to weaken Hamas and to intensify the pressure until its leaders agree to a new ceasefire on Israel's terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood.

The timing of the war was determined by political expediency. A general election is scheduled for 10 February and, in the lead-up to the election, all the main contenders are looking for an opportunity to prove their toughness. The army top brass had been champing at the bit to deliver a crushing blow to Hamas in order to remove the stain left on their reputation by the failure of the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon in July 2006. Israel's cynical leaders could also count on apathy and impotence of the pro-western Arab regimes and on blind support from President Bush in the twilight of his term in the White House. Bush readily obliged by putting all the blame for the crisis on Hamas, vetoing proposals at the UN Security Council for an immediate ceasefire and issuing Israel with a free pass to mount a ground invasion of Gaza.

As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim. This is indeed a conflict between David and Goliath but the Biblical image has been inverted - a small and defenceless Palestinian David faces a heavily armed, merciless and overbearing Israeli Goliath. The resort to brute military force is accompanied, as always, by the shrill rhetoric of victimhood and a farrago of self-pity overlaid with self-righteousness. In Hebrew this is known as the syndrome of bokhim ve-yorim, "crying and shooting".

To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party in this conflict. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory and confronted with an unscrupulous adversary, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June. The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government. Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate. The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.

Whatever the numbers, killing civilians is wrong. This rule applies to Israel as much as it does to Hamas, but Israel's entire record is one of unbridled and unremitting brutality towards the inhabitants of Gaza. Israel also maintained the blockade of Gaza after the ceasefire came into force which, in the view of the Hamas leaders, amounted to a violation of the agreement. During the ceasefire, Israel prevented any exports from leaving the strip in clear violation of a 2005 accord, leading to a sharp drop in employment opportunities. Officially, 49.1% of the population is unemployed. At the same time, Israel restricted drastically the number of trucks carrying food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza. It is difficult to see how starving and freezing the civilians of Gaza could protect the people on the Israeli side of the border. But even if it did, it would still be immoral, a form of collective punishment that is strictly forbidden by international humanitarian law.

The brutality of Israel's soldiers is fully matched by the mendacity of its spokesmen. Eight months before launching the current war on Gaza, Israel established a National Information Directorate. The core messages of this directorate to the media are that Hamas broke the ceasefire agreements; that Israel's objective is the defence of its population; and that Israel's forces are taking the utmost care not to hurt innocent civilians. Israel's spin doctors have been remarkably successful in getting this message across. But, in essence, their propaganda is a pack of lies.

A wide gap separates the reality of Israel's actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen. It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It di d so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.5 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe.

The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash. After eight days of bombing, with a death toll of more than 400 Palestinians and four Israelis, the gung-ho cabinet ordered a land invasion of Gaza the consequences of which are incalculable.

No amount of military escalation can buy Israel immunity from rocket attacks from the military wing of Hamas. Despite all the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted on them, they kept up their resistance and they kept firing their rockets. This is a movement that glorifies victimhood and martyrdom. There is simply no military solution to the conflict between the two communities. The problem with Israel's concept of security is that it denies even the most elementary security to the other community. The only way for Israel to achieve security is not through shooting but through talks with Hamas, which has repeatedly declared its readiness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with the Jewish state within its pre-1967 borders for 20, 30, or even 50 years. Israel has rejected this offer for the same reason it spurned the Arab League peace plan of 2002, which is still on the table: it involves concessions and compromises.

This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so.

• Avi Shlaim is a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford and the author of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World and of Lion of Jordan: King Hussein's Life in War and Peace.
Printable version Send to a friend Share Clip Contact us larger | smaller EmailClose Recipient's email address Your name Add a note (optional)


Your IP address will be logged
ShareClose Digg reddit Google Bookmarks Yahoo! My Web del.icio.us StumbleUpon Newsvine livejournal Facebook BlinkList Contact usClose Report errors or inaccuracies: reader@guardian.co.uk
Letters for publication should be sent to: letters@guardian.co.uk
If you need help using the site: userhelp@guardian.co.uk
Call the main Guardian and Observer switchboard:
+44 (0)20 7278 2332

Advertising guide
License/buy our content
World news
Gaza · Israel and the Palestinian territories · Middle East
More featuresMore on this story

40 dead as Israelis bomb UN schools

After bloodiest attack so far, Barack Obama breaks silence saying he is 'deeply concerned'

Shell-shocked children drawn into cult of the martyr

Full coverage of the crisis in Gaza
Related

7 Jan 2009
Gaza invasion: latest news

5 Jan 2009
Mark Seddon: The Middle East Quartet's special representative is strangely silent on Gaza. Why?

4 Jan 2009
Gordon Brown calls for immediate ceasefire in Gaza after Israeli invasion

1 Jan 2009
Food shortages send prices through roof after farmers are forced to abandon their fields

Posted by: nick at January 7, 2009 11:38 AM

Jay, the Palistinians and the rest of the Arab world want the Jews to be driven into the sea...what is there to negotiate?

Posted by: wes at January 7, 2009 11:03 AM

Just because the UN made a decision in 1947 does NOT not make that decision correct or just. Israel was formed in post WWII leading into cold-war mentality. It was illconceived from the outset. It should be repealed and both sides given an opportunity to negotiate terms. Certainly the Palestinians were not represented at the bargaining table the first go-round.

Posted by: Jay at January 7, 2009 07:22 AM

Dear Sir or Madam
Wish you everything goes very well.

I will tell you good new, we manufacture new jammers with lots of function.
It is vehicle mounted bomb jammers for military convoy protection, convoy jamming system counters remote controlled IED attacks by terrorists for convoy security.
More information, please check the attachment.
Any problem, please communicate me.
Waiting for your reply,
Regards

Sunny Deng
Shenzhen Tangreat Technology Co., Ltd.
Website: www.tangreat.com
E-mail: jammer_blocker05@tangreat.com
MSN: hongsunny2008@hotmail.com
Skype: sunny20081634
Tel: 86-755-33620232
Fax: 86-755-82527821
Mobile: 86-15815576734

Posted by: Sunny Deng at January 7, 2009 05:59 AM

Sam, thanks for your contribution. It says it all.

Isreal also claims that Hamas uses civilians as human shields. It is not uncomon for Isreal to move into a Palestinian home inhabited, seize all communication equipement from the occupants, take strategic positions in the houses and lunch their attacks on Hamas. Are't the Palestinians being used as human shields by the Isreali army against their will? certainly they are.

The Isreali/zionist army are terrorists of the highest order. They deserve to suffer the same fate Areil Sharon had any God willing, they will all go bananas.

Thanks to President Chavez of Venezuela for ejecting the Isreal ambasador and Mosad spies from his countri. Good riddance. How I wish other countries follow suit.

The blood of the Palestinian children is not being spill in vain. For those in Isreal army who are committing these heinous crimes, I say to you, look at your own children and put them in Palestine.

The action of the government of Isreal and its army is pushing me to generate a total hatred for Jews and all Isrealis even though I know there are many peace loving, caring people like myself there. I will direct my anger and hatred only to the wicked such ad Olmert, Sharon, Levni, Benjamin, Peres, Barak etc who feed on blood of Palestinians.

They are modern day zombiesssssssssssss

Posted by: nick at January 7, 2009 03:45 AM

Supported by high technology, Israel could kill palestinian as many as they want. But Israel will never kill Palestinian faith & spirit of jihad. Moslems are never fear to death. Death for moslems is the begining of life. In any circumstances, Israel still CAN'T WIN, forever.

Posted by: Eddy at January 7, 2009 01:03 AM

I have never seen so many comments to a post on this site. Mention Israel and the Palestinians and everyone goes nuts.

Christian wrote"..despite the moral justification for responding to repeated rocket attacks from a newly independent state free of the excuse of "occupation.""

Christian are you suggesting that Gaza is not still illegally occupied by Israel? You are aware that Israel still controls Gaza's borders, airspace and territorial waters, aren't you? That meets the definition of occupation. You are aware that Israel has been trying to starve the Palestinians of Gaza into submission as well. That meets the definition of an act of war and a war crime.

Is anybody here confused as to who is right and who is wrong here? It is true that Hamas has targeted civilians and I wish they wouldn't. The Israeli army targets civilians as well, and uses them as human shields. Can anybody tell me which side has caused more death and destruction? I can. Has anyone heard of the UN school just bombed by Israel? The UN gave the Israelis the location so they wouldn't be bombed. Big mistake.

Many of you seem to agree that Israel has a "right to defend itself." Israel has no such right. When a state chooses to take the freedom of a nation and hold its people hostage, steal land, and commit acts of war and terror on a daily basis against its population then it has absolutely no right to defend itself against acts of resistance. Unfortunately, instead of targeting armed Israeli soldiers and settler terrorists, the Palestinian resistance launches unguided rockets in the direction of Israeli cities, an act that only helps the enemy to justify their vicious campaign of terror.

If anyone here can explain why they would support Israel over a people who have been struggling for freedom, security and justice for 60 years then please be my guest. If it's just old fashioned anti-Muslim and anti-Christian bigotry then write to your friends in the KKK or Kahane Khai instead and don't waste my time.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/834937.html

Posted by: Sam at January 7, 2009 12:16 AM

ALL OF THE ABOVE

Posted by: LtCol ROBERT A SCHWEHR at January 6, 2009 11:20 PM

THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT OCCUR,WAR AND RUMORS OF WAR.ONCE AGAIN HOPE IS NOT A PLAN BUT PRAYER AND IMMEDIATE FAMILIARITY WITH THE WAR PLANS IN THIS AREA SHOULD GENERALLY RANK AS OP PLAN B FOR NAVAL AND MILITARY COMMANDERS ANY WHERE NEAR THIS PART OF THE WORLD OR WITH ANY POSSIBLE TANGENTCY FOR MILITARY OPERATIONS NEAR THIS GLOBAL HOT SPOT.

Posted by: ROBERT A SCHWEHR at January 6, 2009 11:13 PM

WOW, THIS WONDERFUL!
In 1964, I befriended this Palestinian family in Lebanon, as 2 of the brothers had graduated from KANSAS STATE UNIVERSITY with my brothers.
They and their father (a Phd & teacher at American University in ebanon) had left Palestine when the Jewish Nation was organized. (They were Orthodox Christians)
I asked why they left: they had no sensible answer, except hatred of the jews. Their property had not been confiscated, they had the right to vote, their was no discrimination against them, etc.
I asked them to explain their hatred of the jews, but they could not. We had many hours of discussion about these things, but after 18 years, their attitude had not softened! These were educated (in the U.S.) people who were hurting themselves economically every day by this attitude, but they continue on!
The main problem with the "so called" palestinians is the neighboring Arab nations have consistently refused to allow them citizenship and preached hatred at them in the "refugee camps" beginning at age one, and they feel their country was stolen from them!!! Actually, "old Palestine" wasn't much of a country, just a fuedal fiefdom like Saudi Arabia et al, except without oil!
We cannot believe any of the muslim/arab nations when they talk peace! Read the history books. Mohammed took all the territory by FORCE, and held it by FORCE. The only advantage the democratic secular governments have is they can't act together!(thank God)

Posted by: old commander at January 6, 2009 07:58 PM

It is the Militant Islamist's goal to remove Israel from the face of the Earth. They are not just fighting Hamas... Heck, even Iran has a bunch of volunteers that want to fight in Gaza.

It comes down to religious beliefs. Militant Islamists want complete control of the "Holy Land". There will never be peace by continuously forcing Israel to give up it's land to other nations. It will never be enough for them, they want all the land of Israel not just chunks.

Posted by: Ptsfp at January 6, 2009 07:18 PM

Can anything be sillier than trying to make peace with a group that is totally dedicated to wipe you off the face of the earth?

Posted by: Jack O'Leery at January 6, 2009 05:18 PM

""Lambert , Israel is just as much a rogue nation as Iran .It manipulates the media and political elite in the USA for its own ends and has betrayed the US by repeatedly spying on US national interests .""

-I see the new anti-semmitism is still thriving, the new version of the evil jews with their greedy tentacles everywhere.

There is a real war between islam and the west going on atm, and it will soon be fought on the streets in europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7T5fbJbq0

Im not saying every muslim is a part of this effort far from it, but their numbers are growing as studies in britain and germany indicates, and this violent minority has proven its ability to subdue opposition before and is already silencing criticism across Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

""It is well know that the US military hierarchy is exasperated by the neocons bellicosity towards Iran and friendship with the Jewish political lobby . They know that Israel is trying to stir up a hornets nest and that a longer strategy of containment and diplomacy is needed .""

-Its utter nonsence, ofcourse Israel is determined not to let Iran develop nuclear weapons, and I fully support them in this and a bombing of Iran should take place sooner rather then later. We do not wish to let a maniac regime who seeks to bring back the 12th imam and start the apocalypse gain such weaponry.

""The only reason that the violence in Iraq has decreased so much is due to behind the scene deals between American and Iranian players . Also Iran abandoned the whole suicide bomber tactics along time ago and you won`t see the mullahs play that card unless they are bombedAs for the roots of Islamic extremism , the fuel for that fire was the USA and UK not telling the Shah of Iran to lay off with his political killings . The result of which opposition in Iran could only be voiced through the mullahs who still had some protection . Prior to this the mullahs were secular and did not get involved in politics and radical islam was pretty much unheard of .""

-The success in Iraq is mostly due to change in tactics and new leadership, hopefully some warnings have been issued to the Iranian regime as well, altough I have no doubt they are still funneling supplies and weapons to their proxies in Iraq.

-The mullahs have never been secular, the suicide tactic has not been abandoned quite the contrary it is being embraced by the Iranian regime. The mullahs where kept in check by the sha, wich is the case in all the arabian dictatorships to varying degrees, it does not indicate that they are somehow moderate or secular, it just means they are prevented from following their religion to the fullest.

Even the so called moderate turkey is currently undergoing an accellerating islamification process, where islam is let free to follow its own path it always leads to the same end, as to be expected from a religion that has no separation between the private and the public, politics and religion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7792239.stm

Extremism is the norm among islamic clergy unfortunately, it stems from their religious teachings and the example of their prophet, they have their own agenda completely seperate from what we do or dont do. I always find it interesting how people like you reduce the rest of the world to hapless victims floating around in the wake of bigger powers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4dsvz5P-8

Radial Islam has been with us since the first jihad, it didnt become a focus again for the west until quite recently.

""Also Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are the breeding grounds for the current brand of islamic nihilistic extremism . The so called war between the West and Islam is a construct of the Israeli lobby .""

-Its a typical face of the "new/old" anti-semitism all this power of the jews that they of course use to negatively inflence the world for their own gains, its sickening to the core to read your dribble. And yes Pakistan and the Saudis are at the center of this war, the saudis trough their massive funneling of money to the west building mosques and places of learning that spread their evil ideology of wahhabism, peacefully at the moment.

""Re the military action in Gaza , it will only work if Israel can wipe Hamas out and then do the same to Hezbollah . Then Israel must pull out all the stops and make peace with Fatah . Unfortunately the Israeli military is not strong enough to do both so Iran will still have leverage through Hezbollah .""

-I doubt Israel will be able to wipe out Hamas simply because of the lack among western armies to do what is needed, such lack of will is however not found amongst our enemies, just currently the lack of ability, I dont doubt they have the strenght Im not so sure about the will.

""Israel has used up the goodwill from the West and deserves no more special treatment . ""

-Israel is the front lines of the war on terror, and are facing an ideologically trained and determined enemy that will resort to any tactic break any treaty, lie cheat and decieve to reach their goals. Such is the nature of islamism. Israel has had little goodwill from the west for a very long time now, its being subjectd to a one sided leftist media war and has for decades, if Israel was a socialist state the silence from the European media and "intellectuals" would be deafening.

-I suggest listening to or reading Christopher Hitchens who has a very wide contact net in Iran and is generally very well informed, on the "rationality" of the Iranian regime.

Posted by: Lament at January 6, 2009 02:42 PM

Of course Israel can't "win" in Gaza. They tried for 40 years to win and Sharon - not exactly a pinko softy - deliberately abandoned the place, because it just wasn't worth it.

Clearly the rocket fire cannot be stopped by any military means, unless Israel physically occupied the whole strip (which exposes the IDF constant attack). Assuming that Israel's leaders realize this, and it's inconceivable that they don't, then those leaders are just engaged in electioneering and a little "terrorism" of their own.

People and countries will always do what they have to do (which goes for both Israel and the Palestinians), but I don't like when the U.S. is forced to spend money and political/diplomatic capital to take sides when both sides are equally guilty.

Posted by: Matt at January 6, 2009 02:32 PM

Good Morning Folks,

For anyone really interested in seeing how all the siuation with Israel and the Palestinians started after WWII I would recommend a reissued book called "The Nazi Dictatorship and the Deutsche Bank by Harold James.

Prof. James examines the relationship between the Nazis and German banking and commercial interest starting the the 1920's, and the integration of looted Jewish assets into the banking system, to the end of the war. One of the more interesting things that developed was a conduit for gold and silver through Turkey and Egypt.

Control of these funds after the war were taken over by unreconstructed Nazis, mainly the SS and upper level bureaucrats of the Nazi era. These funds worked there way into countries like Iran, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan etc. and came back as oil credits that have been redistributed into the Palestinian cause. A quick look at directors of the european banking networks of the middle east will find a lot of the same names that appeared on post WWII most wanted list.

This is the dark underside of this problem that nobody wants to deal with. Anyone who doubts this look back to Adm. Poindexter's idea for DARPA to disrupt these corrupted economic activities and not the reactions of the U.S. Senate and Wall Street. Not even 9/11 could could bring Wall Street into looking into it's own cellar.

Any window for a peaceable solution of the right for Israel's existence in the are was very brief and most likely died in the 1950's. The nuclear card always follows this argument, forget it. It makes no difference how many weapons Israel might or has, there are to many Palestinians spread to far out, it would only be a black eye not a knock out blow to the Palestinians and would turn the word against Israel.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at January 6, 2009 02:16 PM

Lambert , Israel is just as much a rogue nation as Iran .It manipulates the media and political elite in the USA for its own ends and has betrayed the US by repeatedly spying on US national interests .

It is well know that the US military hierarchy is exasperated by the neocons bellicosity towards Iran and friendship with the Jewish political lobby . They know that Israel is trying to stir up a hornets nest and that a longer strategy of containment and diplomacy is needed .

The only reason that the violence in Iraq has decreased so much is due to behind the scene deals between American and Iranian players . Also Iran abandoned the whole suicide bomber tactics along time ago and you won`t see the mullahs play that card unless they are bombedAs for the roots of Islamic extremism , the fuel for that fire was the USA and UK not telling the Shah of Iran to lay off with his political killings . The result of which opposition in Iran could only be voiced through the mullahs who still had some protection . Prior to this the mullahs were secular and did not get involved in politics and radical islam was pretty much unheard of .

Also Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are the breeding grounds for the current brand of islamic nihilistic extremism . The so called war between the West and Islam is a construct of the Israeli lobby .

Re the military action in Gaza , it will only work if Israel can wipe Hamas out and then do the same to Hezbollah . Then Israel must pull out all the stops and make peace with Fatah . Unfortunately the Israeli military is not strong enough to do both so Iran will still have leverage through Hezbollah .

The priority of the West meanwhile should be energy and avoidance of a potential future conflict with russia and china over access to the gulf regions hydro carbons . If the West can bring it self to deal with Iran and the shia`s then we will be in a much stronger position .

I want the west as the major force in the Gulf in terms of military power and political influence , currently Israel is preventing this .

Israel has used up the goodwill from the West and deserves no more special treatment .

Posted by: tim at January 6, 2009 01:33 PM

I've been reading military.com and citing it with pride. And confidence that it could be relied on for accurate and worthy information.

And then I read this piece of old, done over and over again propaganda. It's disgusting.

I can't exaggerate how disappointed I am that I must now research anything I read from military.com before I cite it's use. Just like most every other news source. I feel so let down.

Posted by: JingoJane at January 6, 2009 12:54 PM

I know a lot of Persians and Arabs and I can tell you they are a very moderate people who have been unfortunately left to devices of the Mullahs and Sheiks by the actions of Britain and the USA throughout from the 20th century . We killed various leaders through the CIA , MI5 and MI6 all for the the oil concessions . Would you trust us ?

-I too know the persians quite well and indeed there are moderate people among them, however the religous lunatics at power currently are not people we can negotiate or make deals with, its bad enough we are dealing with the saudis a far greater threat to our civilization, we have no need to walk into another pit of deceit with the Iranian regime.

Re the Mullahs , they have only one interest and that is to be the number one hydro carbon superpower . We have already gifted them Iraq and its oil as well as leaving them the only real military threat in the Gulf .

-The mullahs have only one objective and that is the domination of islam in this world, the powergame is just another means of achieving this objective.

We should try and bring Iran over to the West , there bark is far worse than there bite , it makes no sense for them to engage the West in a military engagement as they know it would set them back twenty years . Over time the moderates will win out in Iran if we them give a guiding and and helping hand .

-You talking about them like their rational people when they are not, rationality is a scarse commodity in the muslim world and scarser more within the iranian regime.

As for Israel they are trying to entice Hezbollah into action who as we know are controlled by Iran . Israel then
wants the middle east in flames and USA and UK jets hitting Iranian targets .

-Nice conspiracy theory.

Israel is terrified of the West bringing Iran in from the cold . Well we have done it with China and Russia who killed and murdered in the millions throughout the last century and if we don`t bring Iran over to the west the Chinese and Russians will take the oportunity .

-The west has no need of playing the games of the Iranian regime, we must continue to support Israel a nation that shares our ideals and values. As for china and Russia we may have brought them in from the cold, but their very much in process of putting us back out into it.

Remember once Iran has upgraded its oil and gas structure it becomes the worlds number one energy power , also it is at the crossroads of energy supply to the west !!

-Well Im sure your willing to sell your soul for energy, Im not so willing however alternate energy sources renewed use of nuclear power are far better alternatives then becoming further entangled in the middle east.

We should be firm and strong but willing to talk .

-The only options to deal with islamic regimes is isolation and covertly supporting moderate opposition within.

I would still like an answer as to whether Israel will ever rush to the aid of the USA and Great Britain ? I think not

Thats a ridiculous requirement, Israel has no great expeditionary force, its like asking would norway would denmark and the answer is no, not out of lack of will but lack of ability, they are however contributing greatly to the defense of the west by their wits science/technology and shared intelligence, in cooperation with the US. And most importantly they are in the forefront of the battle of our time against islamic fundamentalism, which does not have its roots in our treatment of the muslim world or our actions or lack of action in the middle east. Its roots are in the islamic teachings but the current jihad was sparked by the collapse of the ottoman empire, the war between islam and the world however has been ongoing since the robber baron mohammed first set out from the arabian desert.

Posted by: lament at January 6, 2009 11:47 AM

All this stuff about being a Jew or something else does not matter. What matters is the fact the Hamas broke their truce, They as always broke their word.

I dont know why Israel keeps making these truces when they know the terrorist I mean Hamas will break them.

The media only gets involved when Israel hits back AFTER the low lifes, I mean Hamas, attacks first.

Come on now, If they want peace they would have it. If they want to stop the war they would have it. Israel wants peace, Hamas does not.

I challenge you to tell me one thing that Hamas has done to keep or ensure peace with Israel. While Israel have made deal after deal with Hamas to no effect.

Posted by: nick at January 6, 2009 11:36 AM

@ Nick

Study the annals of history!!!

You said:

1)Jews declared their country in an existing country (Palestine)

Answer: Is that a fact or a conjecture? Where did you get that? Are you aware that there was never been a "country" called Palestine in history? There is a piece of territory labeled as Palestine, but a country? You must be joking! And Jews simply declared their country out of the blue? Are you aware that the creation of the State of Israel was based on 1947 UN Partition Plan? Are you aware that it was in September 1947 when the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended partition in Palestine, which was then later ratified by the UN General Assembly on November 1947? Are you aware that the result considered was the creation of two states, one Arab and one Jewish, with the city of Jerusalem to be under the direct administration of the United Nations? Probably not, or you wouldn't have posted what you said. Like I said, quit reading opinions and study facts and figures in history!!!

2) Isreal drove Palestininans from their land into exile, destroyed their houses, farms, etc.

Answer: Again, study facts and figures in history. Isreael didn't attack its neighbors, they attacked Israel. Have you ever heard of Israel's war of Independence and Statehood in 1947? Egypt, TransJordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq declared war against Israel and announced their rejection of the UN partition decision. Have you ever heard of the Six-day War in 1967 wherein Israel defeated the forces of Egypt, Jordan and Syria and then captured the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the formerly Jordanian-controlled West Bank, including East Jerusalem? How about the Yom Kippur War in 1973? These events created a huge refugee crisis. But the question is, who started what?

3) Isreal imposed embargo on the Palestinian people, depriving them of basic fascilities.
4) Isreal inprisoned an entire nation.

Answer: Was the embargo just imposed for the sake of brutalizing the Palestinian population? I don't think so. Hamas ruled Gaza. And for Israel, and even the European Union, Hamas is a terrorist organization, whose main objective is the destruction of Israel. So what do you expect? It is unfortunate that ordinary Palestinians suffered more than the Hamas did. But did Hamas care about that? No, all they want is to smuggle more arms and weapons materials by whatever means to destroy the state of Israel. The suffering of the Palestinian people works to their terror-based interests. Otherwise, they would have quit their unrealistic way of wanting to erase Israel from the face the of the earth and instead start talking about peace.

1) they condemned Hamas as a terrorist organization which shouldn't rule Palestine.
2) they refused to recognize the Hamas government
3) they imposed punishing santions as a means of breaking the steadfastness of Hamas.

My question to you is this: Is Hamas just a simple peace-loving political party? What is terrorism to you? Hamas never hide the fact that they want to destroy Israel. They sent suicide bombers along with many others from Islamic Jihad, etc. So that is not a work of a terrorist organization to you? I wonder what you would do if your own city block or your own home get's blown out by a suicide bomber!!! Would you say, God bless brother. Thank you for bombing my wife and kids to bits and pieces? War begets war, and that's what we are seeing now. I'm not saying its pleasant and it's okay. But like I said, the Hamas I know today is not the kind of organization who will thrive in peace. Let them become a simple political party without any intention of destroying this or that entity and I'll join you in condemning Israel to the ends of the earth if they still target them after that. Will that ever happen? Talk to Hamas and all you'll be seeing is a map without Israel! If peace must come, both sides must want peace. Hamas will never want that until they destroy Israel or they will cease to exist as they are now. That is not a conjecture. That is a fact!!!

Posted by: nonamer at January 6, 2009 11:15 AM

"Meanwhile the Muslim nihilists must be salivating at the thought of getting the IDF on the ground in the Gaza Strip"

lol!

Many of these muslims nihilists are now room temperature. And the IDF rolls on.

Posted by: Wes at January 6, 2009 11:15 AM

Christian,

Your sources are overly pessimistic.

The IDF is operating to a well thought out war plan on the ground as well as in the air. This is from strategypage.com:

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/israel/articles/20090106.aspx

>For the last two years, the Israeli Army has
>been developing new tactics and equipment for
>fighting Hamas and Hezbollah type gunmen in
>urban areas. The Israelis have built training
>areas, with dense urban construction, and run
>many of its ground troops through special
>exercises. How well the new tactics and training
>are will be seen in the next week or so. The new
>tactics are meant to minimize civilian
>casualties, while enabling Israeli troops to
>quickly move through the area and kill or
>capture enemy personnel and equipment. Reservist
>units being called up, that have not gone
>through the special training, are being sent to
>the new training centers for at least a few days
>of instruction on the new tactics. These new
>methods, while officially secret, apparently
>involve some new fighting tactics, and lots of
>electronic warfare. Hamas has had to operate
>with both cell phones and landline
>communications down. In addition, their walkie-
>talkies are sometimes jammed, and apparently
>listened to carefully by Israeli electronic
>warfare troops. This is causing command and
>coordination problems for Hamas fighters

It looks to me that we are seeing a version of the tactics used in the 2003 Iraqi invasion by the British Army in Basra, with IDF special forces reprising the role of the SAS.

It also has added to it the addition of a truely extensive human intelligence and electronic/information warfare system. This is a description of that system from an IT industry pro-Israeli blogger:

http://yaacovlozowick.blogspot.com/2009/01/waging-war-israeli-way.html

>Well, in my professional life I deal with
>complex IT systems, and I've given a bit of
>thought to this issue seen from that perspective:
>
>
>First, Israel clearly has created a
>sophisticated GIS (geographic information
>system). A system that records tens of thousands
>of buildings, their location, and their distance
>from each other. Then there's a database with
>the names of the tens of thousands of families
>who live in the buildings, and the phone number
>of each family. The system has the ability to
>identify all the families and phone numbers that
>could be affected by an attack on any given
>building. Finally, given the numbers involved,
>there must be a system that automatically makes
>concurrent phone calls to dozens of families,
>since everybody has to have the same ten-minute
>warning.
>
>Ah, and someone put tens of thousands of piece
>of information into that database.
>
>Such a system costs real money, takes time to
>set up, and since it is obviously operating
>close to flawlessly, it was tested, fiddled
>with, tested, fiddled with, and tested again.
>The purpose, I remind you, is to save the lives
>of thousands of Palestinians who happen to have
>murderous neighbors.

The battle reports I have seen indicate that the IDF is going in at night with good intelligence (or to obtain it from Palestinian snitches), to do ground operations seizing/flattening key urban terrain and conducts "body snatches" of Hamas leadership. Meanwhile, it does air and artillery strikes during the day to minimize Palestinian casualties.

Hamas is going to be well thrashed and the majority of it's leaders, military supplies and infrastructure will be killed or destroyed. The longer Operation Cast Lead lasts, the more Hamas will be thrashed.

I don't expect the Olmert government to finish the job -- AKA destroy enough of Hamas to Fatah can take over straight away. The post Operation Cast Iron Gaza will see a power struggle between surviving factions of Hamas, the local family based unaffiliated criminal gangs and Fatah supported criminal gangs pro-Fatah clans (like 150 strong Pro-Fatah Helles clan) reinserted into the rubble of Gaza.

The key to the "rubble phase" will be if Israel occupies the border between Egypt and Gaza for an extended period after the main military operations are completed. This will delay any Iranian covert intervention into the "rubble-struggle" for the duration of that Gaza/Egypt border occupation.

Posted by: Trent Telenko at January 6, 2009 11:06 AM

I know a lot of Persians and Arabs and I can tell you they are a very moderate people who have been unfortunately left to devices of the Mullahs and Sheiks by the actions of Britain and the USA throughout from the 20th century . We killed various leaders through the CIA , MI5 and MI6 all for the the oil concessions . Would you trust us ?

Re the Mullahs , they have only one interest and that is to be the number one hydro carbon superpower . We have already gifted them Iraq and its oil as well as leaving them the only real military threat in the Gulf .

We should try and bring Iran over to the West , there bark is far worse than there bite , it makes no sense for them to engage the West in a military engagement as they know it would set them back twenty years . Over time the moderates will win out in Iran if we them give a guiding and and helping hand .

As for Israel they are trying to entice Hezbollah into action who as we know are controlled by Iran . Israel then wants the middle east in flames and USA and UK jets hitting Iranian targets .

Israel is terrified of the West bringing Iran in from the cold . Well we have done it with China and Russia who killed and murdered in the millions throughout the last century and if we don`t bring Iran over to the west the Chinese and Russians will take the oportunity .

Remember once Iran has upgraded its oil and gas structure it becomes the worlds number one energy power , also it is at the crossroads of energy supply to the west !!

We should be firm and strong but willing to talk .

I would still like an answer as to whether Israel will ever rush to the aid of the USA and Great Britain ? I think not

Lament Read the Devil we know by Robert Baer

Posted by: tim at January 6, 2009 10:55 AM

We are disgusted by the Palestinian attempts in Lebanon to even suggest their Hezbullah brothers start a conflict with Israel now. After the destruction brought on our country because of these minions of Iran, the world needs to wake up to the Shia corruption and megalomaniac delusions. Why can't the Hamas learn from their brothers in the West Bank? What the Sunni's have learned is that if we want peace, Israel is a more than willing partner. To Hamas, from the Sunni world, stop shooting rockets at Israel and you will find these so-called "apes and pigs" are more than happy to sit down and talk peace.
-M. Dief

Posted by: Muhammad Dief at January 6, 2009 10:52 AM

""I know you are probably a Jew. I have no problem with Jews anyways. But Jews like you are a disgrace to the peaceful Jewish people.""

Spare us the fake nick "nick" its probably mohammed or some such, either way your clearly a racist anti semite piece of shit.

And no Im not a jew altough Id be proud to call myself a Jew, Jews have contributed more to civilization than any other group of people in the history of mankind, Muslims with their 1.3 billion has contributed almost nothing in comparison and what little they have was only briefly while they were chewing up other civilizations and absorbing their scientific and cultural achievments.

Posted by: Lament at January 6, 2009 10:51 AM

I notice a pattern here. Those who sympathize with these monsters cannot back up their claims with any reputable sources or historical events, while those who state that Israel is in the right have a plethora of sources and events to back up what they say. Again, don't buy their B.S. Thank you "Lament" for your very articulate and well documented rebuttal. Keep it up.

Posted by: namtrabartman at January 6, 2009 10:50 AM

True, America will not allow Cuba fire missiles in ito it without acting.

Will it (US) allow another country to control is coastal waters, airspace and borders? I guess not as well. So stop that crap.

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 10:43 AM

Lament, you are such a shortsighted person. I gues you are one of those people that has been brainwashed by the Isreali and American Jewish controled media.
You may scream, shout, bang, and explode more bombs in Palestine. The truth remains that Idreal is barbaric and shall pay a full price for these actions.
I know you are probably a Jew. I have no problem with Jews anyways. But Jews like you are a disgrace to the peaceful Jewish people.

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 10:40 AM

Hamas attacked and continue to attack with rockets. Would the US let Cuba fire crude rockets at us, NO WE WOULDNT.

We would let the bodies hit the floor, as Israel should and will do.

Posted by: tim at January 6, 2009 10:37 AM

Israel absolutely has the right, and the obligation to it's own people to counter attack Gaza. The Palestinians were defeated by Isreal, fair and square. Israel is surrounded by Arabic countries, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon (which was a Christian majority until Islam sneakily and then violently took over, driving Christians out), Jordan, and Syria. Even these countries don't want the Palestinians living within their borders, people of their own shade and sharing of much of the same heritage. Furthermore, with a little literacy and brains for research, anyone can learn that there are historical hieroglyphic chronicals carved in stone in Egypt (the Merneptah Stele among others-look it up)which shows that the Israelites were present in this area between 1212 and 925 BC---the written history of the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine as well as Muslim and Egyptian all document this presence. The Arab conquest of this area didn't take place until 638 AD. Do the math. The Islamic Arabs would have everyone believe that the Jews of Isreal came in this area and wrongfully and forcefully set up camp. Tell me---with all of the Arabic presence in this area today, do you really think that a handfull of Jews (Israel is a very small country next to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria) could elbow their way through the vast areas of Arabic land and simply state "were staying here, go to hell?". No. Isrealites were in this area BEFORE the Arabic people wanted to live here. When the Arabs decided to move in, they also decided that these Israelites must either subjugate to Islam and pay huge taxes to live amongst Muslims, or die; this is a directive from muhammad, supposedly given him by allah. Isreal has refused to do either, so the harassment continues, because the quaran dictates it. The quaran dictates that lies are completely acceptable, encouraged in fact, as long as they further the cause of Islam, and that infidels must subjugate to Islam or die. Do not think for a second that a Muslim will not squarely lie to you, those you know, or try to rewrite history in order to further their cause. A non Muslim who sympathizes with these people are simply daft, unable to think for themselves and research to find the truth. A Muslim who lies is simply fulfilling their religious obligation. Don't buy their B.S.

Posted by: namtrabartman at January 6, 2009 10:36 AM

well tim your a good example of why the US should move away from Europe with its growing muslim population its fast becoming an enclave of the muslim world.

Iran can offer absolutely nothing but treachery and war, a country founded on the barbaric principles of the koran and the example of mohammed.

Israel is an oasis of freedom and a bastion of western civilization in a sea of barbarism and totalitarianism, I and many with me will always stand by their side against muslim oppression, a culture and religion that persecutes dissent and nonmuslims everywhere it dominates.

Posted by: Lament at January 6, 2009 10:31 AM

Easiest thing would be develop a theater missile/morter/artillery defense system, so they can ignore the harassment, and not get sucked into a 'war' that cannot be won, and is ultimately counter productive for everyone. Otherwise find someone in their military who understands 4 and 5 generation warfare. And please, get an information and psyops warfare program.

if they could they would have tried already. There will be new things and multiple rockets, then what?

Are you thinking that because your military is stronger and more advanced on paper, that you are invincible? Do you know what a casualty feels like? Why don't you use these 4&5 gen warfare psyops on family and see what it feels like to be a good child? To wield a weapon is necessarily the merit of a military personnel nor a man. Any man can make war.

Posted by: dumb solution at January 6, 2009 10:28 AM

The big flaw in the "it's our land" theory is that in reality, nobody owns the land. We're all temporary occupants. Most of the world can get along and tolerate each other. Those that reside in the biggest sandbox of all.... the middle east, many simply cannot get along not only with their neighbors, but the rest of the world as well. Religious fanatics will doom us all to extinction.

Posted by: Joe at January 6, 2009 10:25 AM

As and Englishman with a great love for the USA I cannot to this day understand why Israel is allowed to control US foreign policy ? Israel blatantly steals secrets from the US and even sells them onto China and whoever else ! They would never come to the rescue of the USA or Great Britain , and they have a self serving agenda that adds fire to fire .

There needs to be political action taken to stop the Israeli lobbyists in the USA and the UK .

Our long term goals would be far better served if we did a deal with Iran , all the while maintaining our military threat . Iran will be the hydrocarbon superpower of the middle east within the next ten years and its people are desperate for normal relations with the West .

Israel has nothing to offer the West apart from war and treachery .

Posted by: tim at January 6, 2009 10:20 AM

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

1) Jews declared their country in an existing country (Palestine).

Outright Lie.

2) Isreal drove Palestininans from their land into exile, destroyed their houses, farms, etc.

-Millions of Arabs live within Israel enjoying freedoms not given to the arabs in the arab world.

3) Isreal imposed embargo on the Palestinian people, depriving them of basic fascilities.

-Israel has no responsability to feed or house people who want them dead.

4) Isreal inprisoned an entire nation.

-Again lies, there was never a nation, and the gazans have themselves to blame when supporting a facsist terrorist party like hamas.

The Palestinian people elected Hamas into government because it is Hamas they want to genuinely represent their interest. What did Isreal and the rest of the diabolic west do?

1) they condemned Hamas as a terrorist organization which shouldn't rule Palestine.

-Hamas is a terrorist organization who targets civilizans and hold to the most extreme forms of islam, where tolerance for dissent is non existent.

2) they refused to recognize the Hamas government

-Nobody should recognize those religous murdering facsists.

3) they imposed punishing santions as a means of breaking the steadfastness of Hamas.

-Yes good, Hamas needs to be destroyed, you can never kill enough hamas members.

As a legitimate government voted in via very democratic elections, Hamas had the right to fight for its people. The people who voted it and support its goal to free Palestine ffrom the apartheid Isreali government which has constructed a segregation wall.

-So was hitler, someone very close to the ideological roots of Hamas, another jew hating entity.

-That wall has saved lives, but it shouldnt have been needed when the first missle struck Israel they should have done what their doing now.

That is the legitimate reason HAMAS has to continue firing rockets into Isreal. Isreal has no reason what ever to retaliate.

-Hamas has no legitimate reasons for anything, its a murdering death cult who only offer their followers unfreedom and death.

Had Isreal recognize the government of the people in Palestine, and allow the Gaza econony to grow by opening borders, if all these had been done by Isreal and yet HAMAS continued firing rockets, then I think Isreal would have been right to go on its current murder, terror and intimidation spree.

-Nobody is required to recognize anyone who wants them dead, maybe you should go and read the hamas charter.

Forget about propaganda. We the people of the world are not stupid to buy the lies Isreal tries to sell. We feel saddaned by the attrocities being perpetrated by the Zionist regime and can only pray that the same faith befall all those who have been behind this plan to exterminate the Palestinian people.

-Yes thankfully people of the world are not as dumb as you.

Some day, Isreal, America will suffer for this. There are people that won't rest until Isreal and America pays back.

-Yes Im sure your friends will continue to try and target civilians around the world.

The world is big enough for every one so stop the fighting. There is plenti of Land in Africa which we will readily donate to the Jews to settle. I want them out of the middle east. Its in their interest.

-Dont worry Israel is there to stay, in the land of their forefathers, the inept muslims surrounding them will remain incapable of changing that fact.

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Posted by: Lament at January 6, 2009 10:20 AM

Remember it was Eygpt, Syria, and Jordan, that denied Arab Palestine a country in 1948. And did so ever since.

Posted by: Ranger11 at January 6, 2009 10:10 AM

"1) Jews declared their country in an existing country (Palestine)."

There has never been a country called palestine.

Below is a good description of what has happened.

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Posted by: Lament at January 6, 2009 10:07 AM

Israel should attack back at Hamas. Israel has been fighting palestrinians for ever and the palestinians don't know when to quit.

Posted by: Avi at January 6, 2009 09:55 AM

Some claim Isreal is right to attack Hamas because as they put it, Isreal was living peacefully while Hamas came attacking with crude rockets.
These same people failed to state what caused Hamas to continually fire rockets into Isreal.
Here are three reasons why Hamas and the Palestinians deserve to continue attacking Isreal
1) Jews declared their country in an existing country (Palestine).
2) Isreal drove Palestininans from their land into exile, destroyed their houses, farms, etc.
3) Isreal imposed embargo on the Palestinian people, depriving them of basic fascilities.
4) Isreal inprisoned an entire nation.

The Palestinian people elected Hamas into government because it is Hamas they want to genuinely represent their interest. What did Isreal and the rest of the diabolic west do?

1) they condemned Hamas as a terrorist organization which shouldn't rule Palestine.
2) they refused to recognize the Hamas government
3) they imposed punishing santions as a means of breaking the steadfastness of Hamas.

As a legitimate government voted in via very democratic elections, Hamas had the right to fight for its people. The people who voted it and support its goal to free Palestine ffrom the apartheid Isreali government which has constructed a segregation wall.

That is the legitimate reason HAMAS has to continue firing rockets into Isreal. Isreal has no reason what ever to retaliate.

Had Isreal recognize the government of the people in Palestine, and allow the Gaza econony to grow by opening borders, if all these had been done by Isreal and yet HAMAS continued firing rockets, then I think Isreal would have been right to go on its current murder, terror and intimidation spree.

Forget about propaganda. We the people of the world are not stupid to buy the lies Isreal tries to sell. We feel saddaned by the attrocities being perpetrated by the Zionist regime and can only pray that the same faith befall all those who have been behind this plan to exterminate the Palestinian people.

Some day, Isreal, America will suffer for this. There are people that won't rest until Isreal and America pays back.

The world is big enough for every one so stop the fighting. There is plenti of Land in Africa which we will readily donate to the Jews to settle. I want them out of the middle east. Its in their interest.

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 09:49 AM

Some claim Isreal is right to attack Hamas because as they put it, Isreal was living peacefully while Hamas came attacking with crude rockets.
These same people failed to state what caused Hamas to continually fire rockets into Isreal.
Here are three reasons why Hamas and the Palestinians deserve to continue attacking Isreal
1) Jews declared their country in an existing country (Palestine).
2) Isreal drove Palestininans from their land into exile, destroyed their houses, farms, etc.
3) Isreal imposed embargo on the Palestinian people, depriving them of basic fascilities.
4) Isreal inprisoned an entire nation.

The Palestinian people elected Hamas into government because it is Hamas they want to genuinely represent their interest. What did Isreal and the rest of the diabolic west do?

1) they condemned Hamas as a terrorist organization which shouldn't rule Palestine.
2) they refused to recognize the Hamas government
3) they imposed punishing santions as a means of breaking the steadfastness of Hamas.

As a legitimate government voted in via very democratic elections, Hamas had the right to fight for its people. The people who voted it and support its goal to free Palestine ffrom the apartheid Isreali government which has constructed a segregation wall.

That is the legitimate reason HAMAS has to continue firing rockets into Isreal. Isreal has no reason what ever to retaliate.

Had Isreal recognize the government of the people in Palestine, and allow the Gaza econony to grow by opening borders, if all these had been done by Isreal and yet HAMAS continued firing rockets, then I think Isreal would have been right to go on its current murder, terror and intimidation spree.

Forget about propaganda. We the people of the world are not stupid to buy the lies Isreal tries to sell. We feel saddaned by the attrocities being perpetrated by the Zionist regime and can only pray that the same faith befall all those who have been behind this plan to exterminate the Palestinian people.

Some day, Isreal, America will suffer for this. There are people that won't rest until Isreal and America pays back.

The world is big enough for every one so stop the fighting. There is plenti of Land in Africa which we will readily donate to the Jews to settle. I want them out of the middle east. Its in their interest.

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 09:48 AM

They're shall be no peace so long as the sins of man inhabit the earth, hatred, pride, and jealousy..." For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fullfilled.
"Reedeem Israel, O God, out of all their troubles!" "For the Lord shall build up Zion; He shall appear in His glory."

Posted by: Balian at January 6, 2009 09:41 AM

Thank you nonamer. Excellent. People must also remember that Hamas took control of Gaza forcefully in 2007. Why? So they could have good fishing? No. Because it was a golden opportunity to take control of a weak political system that put them in the closest proximity to Israel possible, in order to attack them. Looking back in history, after the Quaran was invented, the Arabic world has not made one significant contribution to mankind, ever. No scientific, artistic, technological or other developments have come out of these areas in modern times. Why?...Because a society can only do so many things at once, just like an individual. These people are too busy warring, trying to forcibly spread islam throughout the world. When they are not warring, they are busy screwing each other in order to get rich. They don't have time to think about much of anything else. These people will not stop, whether Israel is the victor or not. Free thought is not encouraged in Islamic societies, by any means. It is Punished. After a while, this sort of ideology effectively eliminates high level thought at the DNA level, through elimination. What do we expect. Arabic societies have effectively rid their own gene pool of the potential of high intelligence. Sad. They are like the school bullies who can pick on and try to intimidate anyone, but won't make it in the real world. Like an aging prostitute, when the demand for oil dries up, so will their relevence in the world.

Posted by: bartman at January 6, 2009 09:41 AM

I think idea of winning (victory) is engraved wrongly in modern concepts of what a military should seek for. Like a sports game, one seeks the lose and win column, but in life/operations/missions there are no such things as win or lose, but there are risks. showing teeth, is a decision which will have consequences for the nation. just as the rockets from hamas has consequences from the airstrikes. do not think one's own actions does not have counter balances, there are undoubtedly more "extremists" which were moderates yesterday. But is a ground operation necessary if the intel is sketchy? this secondary power projection goal should of been saved for a better situation, like a surprise, but the politics of winning votes is considered a win/lose situation for others. If anything should of been considered, it is to resettle the palestinian refugees into west bank or on negotiated lands for both states, this should of been PREPARED, and would have been a surprise for little people!!!!!!!!the battle has already happened there is no return.

that is the risk of showing teeth.

Instead of hamas living in their "perfect" kingdom, just as you see yours more perfect, with their/your followers happily. now you have more followers on both sides. you win some you lose some.

because both sides currently have absolutely no regard for the others human life, as if their family is more valuable then others perceive own, a soldier which doesn't respect the other sides soldiers will greatly put his men/others civilians at risk for the sake of vengeance, unfortunately. these sorts of mentality is turning the next generations to become scarred and aggressively less human i care less if man or woman. i understand orders in an organization but there are also better solutions.

you win by offering your little people peace, do you think you can win by offering only war to everyone you believe with your eyes is bad? difficult decisions

Posted by: abel at January 6, 2009 09:41 AM

I pray and wish the fighting stops at the earliest to ease the world's tension. Please, you all, talk about peace.

Posted by: Nadeem at January 6, 2009 09:39 AM

Lets see the possible screw up... Big Grad (supplied by Iran) Lands in TelAviv... Huge disaster. Israel pounds Gaza accellerates action Hamas really stuffed up. Hisbullas launches rockets from Lebanon. Huge retalliation from Israel Hisbullas stufed up Syria weighs in launches scuds not a good idea all get shot down Syria gets stuffed up. Mullas in Iran go ape launch sihabs These are shot down save 2 one lands in Damascus WHAM Damascus is no more The other (a smaller one) lands on the Temple mount and destroys the mosque So who wins from that I wonder.

Posted by: cp701 at January 6, 2009 09:24 AM

The current war is deeply rooted in Palestine's bloody history. It's horrible that civilians get massacred in this conflict. But the truth of the matter is that: Israel has no other choice. They have to pay a heavy price whichever way they act. Sit and let the rockets rain and their people will die. Attack and blow Hamas to bits and pieces, civilians will die and along with it will come international condemnation. But here's one question? What would you do if someone wants to kill you and throw grenades at your home whenever they feel liking it? Would you just smile and say thank you? What would Turkey do if the PKK fire rockets to any Turkish town or city? What would Pakistan do if India fire missiles at them regularly? Anybody want to answer that? Hamas is founded with the intention of destroying the Israeli state. How can you have peace with such kind of an organization? All they know is to murder anybody that represents the state of Israel. It doesn't matter to them if you are civilian or an IDF. All they want is to kill and kill anybody they think are going against their dream of a "Palestine" without Israel. Come on people! Read the annals of history. The 2 state solution isn't a new one. The UN resolution that created the state of Israel was also intended to create an Arab state. But what did the countries surrounding Israel did? They didn't take it and instead opted to attack Israel in the hopes of destroying it at its foundation. They lost the war and the territory. But still they didn't learned from it. So they tried it again and they lost more territories. It's amazing that many people all over the world are blaming Israel. Well, it could be due to ignorance and the lies perpetrated by people whose only aim is the destruction of the state of Israel. Study the "real" story of that region, and quit following the lines of the Jihadist or those misguided "pundits" who are no better than parrots mimicking the sound of a flushing toilet.

Posted by: nonamer at January 6, 2009 09:21 AM

Well, no one likes war and especially one that kills innocent civilians. But does Israel have any choice at this stage? Hamas uses homes, schools etc as a shelter and there by civilians suffer. 2ndly, Arabs and arab nations were quite during the Enifayda uprising, where innocent children were intentionally targeted.
3rd, what about the rockets Hamas is firing? Hamas is doin the best they can and the world is pointin fingures at israel? For once, i agreed with US foreign policies.
Israel may not win this war 100% cos hamas have deeper roots than we really think, but at least, it must try to minimize the attacks and protect its citizens, much like what HAMAS SAYS HE DOES SO BY FIRING THOSE ROCKETS.

Posted by: Samuel at January 6, 2009 09:15 AM

If wars were able to win the hearts of the people then Iraq & Afghanistan would have been a much better place in the past few years. Israel should give sense to it's mind and should not depend much on the US asiding rest of the world. US economy is in shaky status and Moscow's Ex-KGB Chief predicted that by 2010 US will be in fragments of States. Hamas and other organizations should also understand that fighting doesn't provide you a winning pot. In fighting both parties are loser but the difference is that one less and the other more.
Please impart peace, using foul and derogatory languange reflects the backgroud and the teachings of ones religion. Save your own religion by respecting this.

Posted by: Nadeem at January 6, 2009 09:15 AM

I think it is great that Isreal is doing to hamas and the Palestinians for they are using force to meet force when it is obvious that talking to each other does not work. I have been wondering for a long time on how long Isreal will ignor the rocket attacks! now we know the time has come for them to act. For the US, we waited for one attack on Sept 11,2001 to go to war on terror. Isreal sits surrounded by all arab nations who would be happy to see Iseal wiped off the earth. So when Isreal finally has enough with being bombed and rocketed we cry out for the poor palestinians, but where is the cry for Isreal? So let them defend themselves and try to destroy Hamas for the cowards they are. they strap bombs on women and children and do not fight out in the open like any man would do. People look to them as heroes but it is easy to see they are bully's and deserve not to exist. The children of Isreal and The Arab nations are both from the seed of Abraham so these wars are nothing more than war amongst family members. The land Isreal occupies is the land promised to the seed of Abraham and we all know from history how the Jews were led out of these lands as slaves during the time of Christ and so they have reclaimed there land and heritage. Stop Hamas and all terrorists, We would never allow our country to be bombed and people killed as long as Isreal has kept silent.

Posted by: Ron at January 6, 2009 09:14 AM

to those who would compare this to the Nazi holocost, STFU. The Jews were used as a whipping boy by the Germans who didn't want to admit that they were where they were because they lost a war. They wanted to blame someone else. German Jews weren't firing rockets into non-jewish towns. Hamas and the "Palistinians" are firing rockets, UNPROVOKED into Israel. They use their own people as human shields hoping to either make the Jews flinch, or be able to cry fowl when civvies get killed in the process of taking out those offensive rocket batteries. Sorry, but if you set up a sniper hide in your house and start taking pot shots at mine, I'm morally obligated to STOP THE INCOMING FIRE BY ANY MEANS NESSECARY, including levelling YOUR house and killing everyone in it to protect my OWN family. When I start shooting back, the other people in your house have every right to STOP THE SNIPER, or leave when incoming fire starts.

In other words, STOP SHOOTING AT ISRAEL AND ISRAEL WILL STOP BOMBING THE CRAP OUT OF YOU.

And for you "Palastinians" who want to blab your crap on here and blame Israel for your poverty, there is a passage in the Bible, not sure if your Korhan has the same thing in it, but it says to take the beam out of your eye, before trying to take the mote out of someone elses...

In other words, TILL YOU CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE, QUIT BLAMING AND SHOOTING AT THE JEWS AND BLOWING UP YOUR CHILDREN TRYING TO KILL JEWS AND WESTERNERS! STFU, sit down, and fix your own "country". If the Israelies start bombing the hell out of you unprovoked, THEN you can complain. If your people shoot first, then expect to get shot back at.

DON'T START NONE, WON'T BE NONE.

Posted by: coolhand77 at January 6, 2009 09:06 AM

To clarify even further:

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Those who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath were turned into monkeys, then they perished without offspring.'' Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn `Abbas said, "Allah turned them into monkeys because of their sins. They only lived on the earth for three days, for no transformed person ever lives more than three days. They did not eat, drink or have offspring. Allah transformed their shapes into monkeys, and He does what He wills, with whom He wills and He changes the shape of whomever He wills. On the other hand, Allah created the monkeys, swines and the rest of the creation in the six days (of creation) that He mentioned in His Book....

Quote taken from Ibn Kathir's Exegesis of the Quran

Posted by: Kashif at January 6, 2009 09:04 AM

Steve, you need to seek help. I mean professional help.

Posted by: Maxtrue at January 6, 2009 09:02 AM

This war in Gaza though small. Is like a fire in a petrol dump. A very dangerous situation.
It could easly spark a regional conflict. That would force Israel into a total war, defense scenario.
No more pussy footing about with smart bombs and puting its soldiers in harms way.
YOU AINT SEEN NOTHING YET.......Syria, Iran?? We can depend on them to screw up pretty soon.

Posted by: cp701 at January 6, 2009 08:59 AM

Typical armchairing as usual. Sure, let Hamas and Hizb'Allah build up enough to rain down thousands of missiles. Half of you here would be pleased if Israel surrendered. Hamas is counting on the choir.

Maybe Sharon was listening to those that think retreat encourages peace...LOL.

Posted by: Maxtrue at January 6, 2009 08:58 AM

You just don't get the point. Muslims only say what God authorized them to say. God said that He transformed Jews into monkeys and apes because of their disobedience to His commands (they shouldn't have net the fish on Sabaath day) and that generation produced no offspring. It ended right there. Anybody who disagrees should take their case to God and I bet you are bound to failure. Now the jews of today are not their offspring but whoever affiliates with them or behaves like them would be considered to be on par with them. Who would want to be affiliated to such disobedient people? Therefore, the problem is Israel, not Palestine and real victory obviously goes to Palestinians. Congratulations !

Posted by: Kashif at January 6, 2009 08:54 AM

What would you do if you are a refugee since birth 1948 in your own land until now?

What would you do if your country is blocked both by land air and sea and you do not have any complete freedom at all let alone overseas travel?

What would you do if the electricity and basic necessity is being cut at the whims of Israel and border crossing is being controlled by Israeli soldiers without having any sympathy at all?

Whether you fight or not Israel considers you a condemned race and no sign that Israel would allow you complete freedom and give peace voluntarily. Outsiders must understand as to why Palestinians has to fight their way out to press Israel on their freedom.

If Israel can really find out the root caused, I believe peace can be achieved. Israel cannot be thinking that the enemy is out to destroy you all the time. Listen to them seriously, help them, sympathise them, give in to their demand they want but without affecting the sovereignity of Israel, then I believe peace can be achieved.

Give them time and be good to them and not ill treat them as what Israel had done all these years. In life, kindness will only be repaid in kindness.

The West especially Britain and the US who are the architects in creating Israel with the UN approval then authorising the forced displacement of the Palestinian land in 1948 to Israel simply cannot sit arms folded and watch the destruction of Palestine go by as though they are not responsible to this problem.

Posted by: ronslaim at January 6, 2009 08:49 AM

Perhaps if everyone could come to the realization their invisible space daddy doesn't exist a real solution could be found.

Posted by: dave m at January 6, 2009 08:48 AM

Isreal CAN win this war, IF it is willing to do what is needed despite "condemnation" from the world.
The British faced the exact same circumstances during their "Ottoman War" early in the last century. They has gone into the middle east to depose the Ottoman Empire ( No need to get into the politcal thinking for that decision ).
Initially all went well and the Ottoman Empire was thrown down in short order. It was at that time that the liberated Muslims began to attack the British forces. A period followed in which the Brits tried reason and placation with the Muslims, during which the Muslim terror attacks grew in size and barbarity. This is logical for the Muslims who think that placation and treaties are used only by LOSERS.
In the end the Muslims who "Seek to be martyrs" and "Don't think like we do" called a halt to their terrorism. What caused this halt? The urestrained use by Britain of the ultimate in military technology at the time- The airplane and machinegun ! Unrestrained means that untold THOSANDS of Muslims *INCLUDING civilians, women children and elderly* were mowed down until the possibility of the extinction of the Muslim religion was fast becoming a reality!
The Muslims DO think like we do! You just have to be willing to be more barbarous than they are!
Isreal CAN win this war IF they are willing to kill and slaughter until the Muslims are forced to capitulate, which they WILL DO once they see that they face an enemy who is willing to be more barbaric that the Muslims.
This has led me to develope 2 maxims.
1. You can only win a war if you are willing to be more barbaric than your enemy. The classic example was out own American War of Independence, when the Bitish wanted to form neat squares of men in the middle of open fields which would blast at each other. We responded by hiding behind the trees and mowing them down!!
2. Muslims will strive for world domination about once every 3 generations for the following reasons
a. The Muslims that have just been forcibly subjegated are unwilling to endure such Muslim slaughter again.
b. The next generation are guided by their elders, who experienced such slaughter
c. The third generation did not see this slaughter, and have no advisors who saw it, so they cannot concieve of it really happening.

Go back roughly every 100 years and you find Muslims trying to take over the world- Now, the Ottoman Turk Uprising, the Barbary Pirates and ad infinitum.

I only hope Isreal has the stomach to pursue this offensive to its conclusion. The world would be a better place if the Muslims were taken down a peg for another 100 years.

Posted by: Thorolf at January 6, 2009 08:48 AM

Ironic isn't it that the people victimized by history's greatest atrocity will perpetuate the next. There are undoubtedly some in Israel and the US who desire a "Final Solution" to the Palestinean problem. I'm sure there will be great profit opportunities for Haliburton & Dyncorp in the construction of prisons and crematoria, as Israel, with American aide, "re-educates" the Gazan populace.

Posted by: Steve Fortuna at January 6, 2009 08:44 AM

Palestinians have been receiving aid and foreign aid for over 70 years and what do they have to show for it? Fancy farms, fancy hotels or factories? Fancy people strutting down the street like you see in Singapore or Taiwan? What you see is grinding poverty, hopelessness, and despair. Of course Suhair Arafat makes $150,000 a month as a gift of the Palestinians. I know you all out there that love Palestine make $150,000 a month living in Paris and eating bon bons.(Chocolate candy) Get real folks...no one wants the make believe people called Palestinians. Not the Arabs, not the Israelis, not the Europeans, No one, not even God.

Posted by: George Hussein at January 6, 2009 08:39 AM

La illaha illallah. Muhammad rasulullah. Our hearts beat with this and will continue to beat with this when you are long gone, and when your children and their children our long gone. So, if you don't like it, don't feel secure with us, and you are wishing for a world without us, then shoot and bomb and rant on your stupid online comment board all you like: you will die frustrated, disappointed, and insecure.

Posted by: Ed at January 6, 2009 08:37 AM

The problem is that Hamas wont rest until they destroy the state Israel and send the Jews on a perminant vacation from this world. They will lie, cheat and taunt to achieve their objective, even under the false guise of truce. Truce to them means that they have tricked their opponant into letting them rearm for a later stab at Israel. They cannot and will not live in peace. How do they attempt to acieve their political objectives? By firing exposives from a distance at civilians, not Israel's military. Hamas hids in civilian populations putting "their people" in harms way to save their own skin. This hate between the two has been going on for centuries and it's not going to stop. The people of gaza need to kick out Hamas, but even then the hatred will continue and the movement will just take another form.

Israel is no better, if their object was to stop Hamas from firing rockets, a diffent military tactic could have been used. Neither one deserves the right to "win", they are both losers. The correct israeli response would have been an infiltration and subsequent elimination of those that "authorized" the rocket attacks and foster the aggression.

Posted by: Joe at January 6, 2009 08:36 AM

Rowlet, you are the very type of shallow minded, uninformed and backward idiot that the cowardly Islamic militant movement counts on to tolerate and ultimately further their cause. Fascism and Zionism the same? What the hell does Israel invading Gaza in order to stop the unwarranted assaults on their land and people have to do with trying to spread influence, abuse power, and conquer and "purify" entire societies, as the Nazis did? You're a moron. My father spent months in a Nazi concentration camp in Belarus when he was 3 years old. His mother was raped and executed by the same people, his sister raped and let go, and 2 of his brothers starved to death in the same place. Did Belarus invade Germany? No. Did these children pose a threat to the Nazis? No. Germany destroyed 80% of the structures in this country alone, and killed 30% of the population, mostly in mass graves by machine gun fire, just on their way to invade Russia. So, don't feed me that crap. There are no similarities in ideology, motives, actions, or outcomes. I think you should volunteer as a human shield for a Hamas coward so you can't breed or otherwise spread your ignorance. You don't know a damn thing about what the Fascists did, otherwise you wouldn't make such ludicrous comments. Use your head before your mouth (or fingers). If you find this impossibe, just shut up, and do some research. Idiot.

Posted by: namtrabartman at January 6, 2009 08:35 AM

I say let Israel get on with it and I hope this time it will do a good job of the operation! And even if it doesnt it wont change a thing anyway because the Muslim world wont stop hating Israel even if Israel had Gaza streets paved with gold. They hate Israel simply because its a safe haven for jews whom they cannot touch or oppress like they do in their own countries! God bless Israel!

Posted by: Martin at January 6, 2009 08:28 AM

Folks, you are missing the whole point. It's a family fued that started back when Abraham had a son Ismael by his wife's handmaiden, Haggar. He wasn't the true son, just a bastard but God did promise him that he would be a nation with twelve princes. God also said that he would be a wild man with his hand raised against all nations. Does this not sound like the Islamic nations with their radical groups everywhere wanting to kill everyone who does not agree with them? There will be no peace in the Middle East until God Himself deems it so. Have faith that Israel will win because God is for them. Just pray for the nation of Israel that it will do what is needed to protect itself just as the United Stated would if someone fired missles at us. Stand strong.

Posted by: edna at January 6, 2009 08:27 AM

Many said Israel lost to Hzbollah in 2006, but notice how Nasrallah helps Hamas now by sending terrorists and rockets from Lebanon- nothing. Perhaps Hezbollah is afaid of another such win? Of coure Israel can win against Hamas and destroy its munitions supplied and paid by Iran as $million$ of arms go up in smoke. All that money shuld have been used to start industry and hospitals and sewer plants and hotels etc. The people of Gaza voted in Hamas. Hamas charter requires destruction of Israel as its leadrers repeated demand. The leaders hiding in hospitals can be eliminated by Gazans if they wanted and free thmselves; they do not. No nation sits and lets it people be bombed nor wait so long as Israel has to stop the terror. Egypt and Jordan do not want Hamas and do not want a powerful Iran. Jordan eliminated Arafat from Jordan in 'black september' 1970.

Posted by: Eimad at January 6, 2009 08:25 AM

In this blog I see many people fear the total annihilation of israel and together with them the whole jews of earth. The way they are treating the defenseless people, I can assure you that israel´s demise is near. I also wish that funeral of zionist regime and that of US go together as they are now friend of each other, so they should go for the final rites together!

Posted by: raja at January 6, 2009 08:22 AM

God Bless Brave palestinian freedom fighters.
Israel broke the truce After a 6 month ceasefire,Google it.Palestinians have suffered Humiliation,starvation and terrorism for decades.There has been a siege on gaza for 18 months from Israel.what do you expect people to do?They would fight back the oppresion..
Zionism is the cancer of the world,Down with Israel

Posted by: Hooman at January 6, 2009 08:22 AM

israel should be fearful; they are belligerent colonizers. there will never be peace in the region so long as israel continues to brazenly defy international law and occupy palestinian land.

END THE OCCUPATION!

Posted by: child_of_god at January 6, 2009 08:22 AM

The palestinians[in GAZA] like all arabs[worldwide] habor and support islamic extremism.Hamas first fired rockets into israel;they unilaterally broke the cease-fire! Now when a country [israel]goes after a terrorist organization[HAMAS] to defend itself and halt the rockets;the shameless arabs-politicians and activists round the world are protesting! They should call HAMAS to order first and stop the rocket and weapon smuggling into GAZA..
SHAME TO THE ARAB PROTESTERS IN UK,and everwhere.WHY DIDDNT THEY PROTEST WHEN THE ROCKETS WHERE HITTING ISREAL DAILY; AND ISRAEL DID NOT RESPOND; [WHY DIDNT THEY STOP RUSSIA INVADING GEORGIA AFTER IT ATTACKED RUSSIA's INTEREST; WHY DIDNT THEY STOP AMERICA AFTER THE 9/11 ATTACK WHEN THEY INVADED IRAQ];Arabs in the middle East should leave Isreal alone!
I am really suprised the Arabs are shouting humanitarian crisis in Gaza! EGYPT,IRAN,SYRIA, should stop HAMAS;they should stop smuggling weapons into GAZA.
Under the present circumstances,since the HAMAS militants brought these hunanitarian crisis upon themselves,they should respond first by halting rocket firing into israel before isreal a nation can stop bombarding GAZA STRIP.
i recommend ISREAL adopt US military doctrine of killing all terrorist as well all those that habor them;shelter them,allow them to use their house to shoot rockets at isreal;and those who allow terrorist use their mosque,houses to store weapons agaisnt isreal.

But isreal should creat a safe zone for GAZA civilians to surrnder and go to for food and medicines;so innocent people wont keep dying.but they must be thoroughly searched before they camp there becuase ARABS have suicidal tendencies to kill.they lack tolerance and live and lets live....
MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP ISREAL AMIDST ENEMIES_ARABS IN THE MIDDLE EAST

Posted by: ben at January 6, 2009 08:14 AM

I am a Vietnam era veteran who live in Chicago who see the beginning of world-war 3 by seeing what is happening around the world.

The Economy is bad in the USA and other places and the Politics are bad in chicago and other places as well.

And man and mankind is not respectful to each other and in many ways because of Greed and the time has come where things could be coming to a level playing field where God may give the Final command -for Man as written in your Bible which could be the main Battle of the world

Posted by: virgil mathis at January 6, 2009 08:11 AM

Reading all these Hawkish Comments , I wonder these were the same People who suffered at the hands of Nazis!!
Zionism and Fascism ..I dont find any difference..

Posted by: rowlet at January 6, 2009 08:06 AM

To made sure everyone understands my views, I believe Israel has an undeniable right to defend itself. I never heard a great out cry from the world community about Israel getting fire upon for so many years, what's that all about?

Posted by: buzz at January 6, 2009 08:02 AM

Connie youre an idiot

Posted by: What?! at January 6, 2009 08:01 AM

@ E Rabin. RE: Benjamin Franklin's anti-semitic speech...

It is well-known forgery, Benjamin Franklin was notoriously liberal and tolerant, and on one occasion helped petition for a synagogue to be built, donated 5 dollars himself and encouraged people of all-faiths to help... etc.

Benjamin Franklin was one of the great founding fathers of The United States of America, and like his contemporaries were men of noble minds and high ideals.

You shouldn't slander him without checking your sources, especially considering the great debt that the Jewish People owe to him and the other founders of this Great Nation.

my source: http://www.adl.org/special_reports/franklin_prophecy/print.asp

Am Yisrael Chai! May God bless a Strong and Just America, and a Free and Victorious Israel.

Posted by: Levy B at January 6, 2009 07:56 AM

Killing innocent civilians is crazy but dirty enough is that Hamas chooses to play seek and hide in schools and mosques.

Hamas fighters are chickens fed by Iran and Syria but this cannot be a clue to kill civilians instead by Israel.

Killing innocent people is condemned and Hamas chickens are condemned too. This is a war which has its own losers: people and its own winners: Hamas and Israeli extremists.

Do not let them fool you! Hamas and Israeli extremists are one thing not two! They love war because in case of peace their interests cannot be secured this easy.

Posted by: Tombo at January 6, 2009 07:52 AM

Even at the peak of suffering in Gaza, the terrorist called Hamas refuse to acknowledge reality:
1. Isreal has a right to self defence.
2. Any irresponsible act would be retaliated.
3. Hamas should be responsible enough so safeguard the palestian people, if they were elected. spending more time in providing instead of starting a no-win war, just for heroism.
4. They should recognise the jewish state and stop blasting the hassam to kill innocent jews.
The problems in there can be sorted out if there are responsible will-power, the elementary urge for peace and common respect for one another.
5. The iranians and Hezbollah should be curtail by international pressure.
Finally, I don't think Isreal will be called a responsible state if it sits and wait for it's citizens to be killed daily by rockets fired from Palestian. The internal community needed to act then.

Posted by: Christian at January 6, 2009 07:52 AM

GOD BLESS ISRAEL !!!!

Posted by: lovegrace at January 6, 2009 07:50 AM

I cannot believe that so many people actually believe that Israel is doing anything inappropriate. Any country, any group of people, any family, any individual can only tolerate a finite degree of harassment from others. At some point, even if you know it won't stop the harassment altogether, you have to take action. If a person came to your street every day and shot at you and your family while in your home, what would you do? After warning them a few dozen times to stop, what then? Call the police? Israel has no such option. It is no secret that each one of their neighbors would like nothing better than to see Israel's final demise. These cowardly Hamas militants place themselves in populated areas in order to discourage retaliation. When enough is enough and retaliation takes place, Israel is condemned for killing civilians. This is the Islamic militant way. Manipulation, cowardice. They get what they deserve, just as they did in the crusades. I hope Israel wipes them out, continues the embargo, and lets innocent civilians travel into Israel. If Hamas has no women and children to hide behind, they can't fight.

Posted by: bartman at January 6, 2009 07:49 AM

If Hamas didn't choose Gaza to fire rockets in to Israel, this would not be happening. War has been going on for a long time. The only point to be made is if you don't want your women and children to be killed, own up to your actions and stop them. Why id Israel bad for protecting their people? Yes, if hamas doesn't stop the rockets, then unfortunately, they should all be stopped.

Posted by: sean at January 6, 2009 07:47 AM

Israel has acted in the best political interest of the world for years and now it's time to protect it's self.
It' time to send Hamas and the gang to hell as they have proven to the world for years that all they want is death ,so give it to them. As for the poor innocent civilians’. They train their children for this crap and then want the world to say pity me. The innocent have departed!
Come on UN enough is enough with your bull manure. Your motives have been in question since the oil for food debacle.

Posted by: Ken at January 6, 2009 07:46 AM

I assure all of you that Hamas has nothing to do with Palestinian majority because the main reason they even exist is the totalitarian regime in Iran.

But let's see the other side of the coin. Everybody thinks that Iran and Israel are enemies while during Iran-Iraq war, Israel played a dominant role to sell weapons to Iranian regime.

The point is that extremists in Iran and Israel are friends and neither of them wants peace. It is in war that both sides find their interests.

With a war flaming forever, they can fed their people with lies and spend more - and thus steal more - on security and military budgets and secure their secret deals with major arms factories in U.S. and Europe.

So, don't forget that neither Iran nor Israel governments want peace and they love war instead - because they are secret friends. The point is that people suffer in Israel, Palestine and Iran, just to serve their lunatic blood-hungry governments.

Posted by: Tombo at January 6, 2009 07:44 AM

Israel what have you done? How dare you invade a country that has fired missiles at innocent civilians for several years. Yes Israel is in a no win situation, much like the rest of world when it comes to the middle east situation. The best we can hope for is small periods of peace with guidance from strong leaders from around the world. I wonder, what will happen in the middle east when countries start freeing themselves from the dependency of oil? You think it's a mess now, you haven't seen anything yet. Poverty, helplessness, starvation, and selfish governments will speed up the growth of radical terrorist groups, and the whole world will suffer. I don't blame Israel for invading Gaza, I think any other country in the same situation would do the same. Over the years I've noticed something about myself, I've gotten soft. I worry and feel sorry for the common folks in this world that are caught up in situations like this, they are truly the ones that suffer, and it doesn't matter to me what race they may be. With that thought in mind, I hope to see a real cease fire take place, and end the misery of innocent people caught up in this conflict. To all you hate-mongroles out there, shame on you, what God do you listen to?

Posted by: buzz at January 6, 2009 07:41 AM

Is there any reason to think now that civilians will not be caught in any kind of armed conflict?

It is astonishing that news coverage is so entirely superficial. Justice is not paid to historical background and political theory beind this event in Gaza or anywhere for that matter. It is the shock and horror of war that makes for good viewership and short term memories.

Would be nice to have a program where folks with desire for a more in depth analysis can go to hear experts on foreign policy, conflict resolution, etc. debate issues in earnest. Thomas Barnett for instance. I'd like to hear his take.

Isreal's intent is not to "win". And there is no doubt a proliferation of hatred will ensue. They want the international community to patrol and control Hamas. Hamas wants no part of their ambitions to be monitored. Nor do those who arm and train them. If some devine hand steps in and calm is restored, only then is there hope for meaningful progress for peace.

Hamas stands firmly in the way of any such hope. Why did the peace process fail at the last second when dealing with Arafat during the Clinton administration? Hamas.

Maybe Arafat's wife who is relaxing in Paris, left many millions of dollars Arafat siphoned from aid money, should return some of it to those who need it in terrible times like these. Perhaps the Arab community should refrain from fueling the conflict by continuing to arm Hamas and their singularly minded ilk.

If Hamas is not ultimately forced under control, then the Isreali offensive will have only tempered Hamas' activities for the short term. And the cycle will continue.

Isreal is willing to deal. Hamas is not.

Posted by: Political Scientist at January 6, 2009 07:22 AM

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? How people could post some of the comments on here they have is just bewildering.

You can NOT deny the inevitable...there is a demographic war going on here folks. When will the Jews realize the BEST place to decide what is in their best interest is not behind the barrel of a gun but behind a desk with their adversaries in front of them!

Truth of the matter is that if I were a Jew I would do the same thing the Jews are doing and were I a Palestinian I would do the same as they; however, the key here is what is in the best long term interest of either! Reality people is that the Palestinians/Arabs have time on their hands....the Jews do NOT!

Arab blood is just as RED as Jewish blood. How could a people who have grieved and lost so much and come to survive the holocaust do what they are doing? The chosen people? Are they living up to that example?

When will they start thinking for their long term interests?

I pray for the Jews to open their eyes for when the gun will be in the hands of the Palestinians they will not be so kind when they look back at what was done to them.

Posted by: Inevitable at January 6, 2009 07:22 AM

Just like they could not unseat, uproot or exterminate Hezbollah, they will not be able to defeat Hamas.

Hamas...unlike other groups Israel has built and destroyed in the past, this one has an example to follow and is returning to the fold of real Islam i.e. Ahl Bayt.

And no Israel can ever defeat the divine right of the last prophet's household. No Israel or D.C. or NATO.

You see...Allah always wins. And when Allah usurpred the Hebrew position as Divine Leaders...he really meant it.

Posted by: Lilac Cotton at January 6, 2009 07:22 AM

Like George W.Bush said,Hamas should be held unpardonably responsible by the Palistinian Govt for the death of the innocent palistinian civilians in the Isreali Military rade in Gaza.Civilian casualties in a Military rade on a terrorist territorial is sth that is inevitable.The Isreali military rade in Gaza should serve as a deterrent both to Hamas and his colaborators,i don't see why people should be protesting over Isreal military rade in Gaza,those who are protesting should been seen and considered as Hamas's support of terrorist act against Isreal and every other place around the world.US should be very conscious of this situtaion as in seeing those protesters in some US regions as supporters of Hamas and terrorism going on around the globe.The UN must not be very fast in rushing into diplomatic negetiation,but should and hear what Hamas and elites has to say.I am also looking forward to seing the reaction of the arab leaders against the Isreali military rade in Gaza.For me the action by the isrealis serves Hamas and anybody that still stays around his region well.I am unrelently in support of any action either by Isreal or US to clashdown terrorism activities around the globe.

Posted by: Dennis at January 6, 2009 07:12 AM

You are exactly right when you say you are creating a lot of future hate in Gaza. The problem is that Israel didn't complete this the first time. Yes, going to be a lot of hostility created. But should be directed at Hamas. But since the Palestinians elected Hamas they too are responsible for the rockets. The only way to stop this is to anilate and destroy Gaza totally. The people in Gaza haven't tried to stop the rockets. Hide and support Hamas, so hope Israel destroys the entire population which is a cancer on humanity! I'm tired of this crap, get it over with. Only by wiping Gaza off the map. Will it end.

Posted by: Jim at January 6, 2009 07:11 AM

Enough, Israel can't win this war BULL, Glad you intellects weren't around in 1776 we would still be answering to a Queen and payng for Englands Ballroom Bashes.
Israel has stepped back and stepped back, gave up occupied land and everything it could to try to work with these people what do they do put an intinity in charge that wants to destroy israel. Then you say Israel can't win when they have an elite military but sit on there hands to appease people like you. I say Israel protect your people no one should have to live wondering if today is the day thier family is going to have a mortar round wipe out there family. GO ISRAEL

Posted by: george at January 6, 2009 07:10 AM

i think this situation was a prophecy of words of david in psalm 109 was done.

Posted by: witerson jaya,ir at January 6, 2009 07:05 AM

Brian, Look at what Olmert is doing in Palestine. Is it any different from what is believed Hitler did? The same people who claimed to have been the target by Hitler are the ones committing the same crimes they accuse Hitler of doing. That is why I say Hitler might have been a visionary. I am a peace lover who respects all human life be it Jews, Christians, non believers, Moslems etc. No human being has the right to be responsible for anothers death.
We all deserve to live and not be sacrificed in some peoples desire to evxert global or regional dorminance. Why did the Jews not move to Africa, buy some uninhabited land and settle there after the war? Why did they resort to chasing others out of their land, wiping whole families off the face of the earth? Is the earth not big enough for everyone to live happily? it sure is bigger.
The truth as mentioned by some is that Isreal cannot kill every Palestinian. So know that war or terrorism by the Isreali government cannot bring peace to the Loving and peaceful people pf Isreal. Let the comon man in Isreal rise up and say no to their government.
Say no to the secret sects that run your country and use the lives of your innocent children to advance their greedy personal goals.

To Olmert and co, stop these attrocities. You are breading more hatred that you wont be able to contain when it rises up.

Word for the wise!!

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 06:57 AM

Well, I think we have to see what the overall objectives are. there are some that say: rockets from Palestine must ceast, others say: there must be open borders. These are to arguments that have some value, but if the overall objective is not Palestine but Iran. The biggger threat to Irael is Iran with it nukes vapability becoming more realistict by the day. Therefore; Irael decision and willingness to to continue it campaign agaist the proxy puppet goverment in Gaza is to prevent a futue disaster. The world body must put preasure in Iran to stop its eagerness to build a nukecular plant. The world body must redirect its focus to the main problem which is Iran nucular capability. I think this is Irael main objective in this war and not too inflict lost of life in Gaza. Isreal have spoke with one voice; there battle is not with the Palestinian people but with hamas leaders (Iran). Please, keep putting preasure on Iran to stop its construction of its nucular plant, so that there could be peace in the region.

Posted by: art at January 6, 2009 06:55 AM

I AM NOT HAPPY THE WAY WOMEN AND INNOCENT PALESTINIAN CHILDREN ARE BEING KILLED.BUT THE PEOPLE OF GAZA SHOULD TAKE THEIR DESTINY IN THEIR OWN HANDS...............THEY SHOULD RISE AGAINST HAMAS.HAMAS IS A REAL THREAT TO PEACE.THEY KNOW THE CONSEQUENCE OF ROCKET ATTACK ON ISREAL.IF THEY REALLY LOVE THEIR PEOPLE,THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ATTACKED ISRAEL KNOWING THAT ISREAL WILL RETALIATE.PEOPLE OF GAZA,RISE AGAINST HAMAS TODAY AND YOU WILL RECEIEVE PUBLIC SYMPATHY....STOP PLAYING THE "FOOL"

Posted by: JAY EMEKA at January 6, 2009 06:55 AM

FINALLY.....someone thaty does not sound like a broken record. Well put ffjbentson......Israel can pull this off. Hamas is a known terrorist group and should be treated as one. The Palestinians should not be allowed to cry foul in no way shape or form because they are the ones that installed a terrorist organization as a goverment. If they truley wanted to live in peace they would themselves throw the Hamas out on their ear. If they can't do that then the puppet organization of the UN should step in and find out why. When you deal with Islamic extremist there is only one language that they learn from.....total inihilation. PERIOD

Posted by: Rush at January 6, 2009 06:52 AM

the ongoing war between hamas and israel wiil never put to an end the long history of conflict israel had not only with hamas but with other arab countries. israel can if it would, totally eliminate every existing hamas, but that would surely not end the war, it might even provoke series of war not only in terms of military weapons but more on war of mental anguish on the cost of lives that have been put to nothing but serve to profit the manufacturers of military weapons. i guess you know what country is this...

Posted by: benny come at January 6, 2009 06:49 AM

I see Israel as a tragic hero. The fact that, it is seemingly powerful nation, that does not give it power to kill and destroy civilian population of the Palestinians. Doing so further ignites the fire of hatred towards Israel among the Arabs. Israel's failure to listen to international calls for immediate cease fire. Even if Israel is lucky to have crushed the Hamas, there still many hurdles to cross as Hezbollah and Iran are still existing!

Posted by: Sadiq at January 6, 2009 06:40 AM

I think before people pour their verbal wrath, they need to put themselves in the shoes of Israel which has suffered casualties with their children slaughtered in cold blood without condemning HAMAS! That part of Israel has lived under fear so the Palestinians should have a taste of it as well. When Israel resolves to retariate their eye brows are raised, does this mean the Jews are less human?

Stephen

In Africa, we are not going to tolerate this!!!!!!

Posted by: Stephen at January 6, 2009 06:31 AM

Both Israelis and Hamas are human beings. By and large from a single source; Adam!

So both the two and those supporting either need to go back to history, so that they leave also a viable/peaceful world to the new and subsequent generations. Enmity, subjugation and Killings cannot make one a hero to the infinity centuries.

Ahmad-Kano, Nigeria.

Posted by: Ahmad at January 6, 2009 06:29 AM

Here's the truth!It's not possible for Israel to ask for peace after palestinians' land have been confiscated and they are held hostage for years.You can't wip a child and expect him/her not to cry.It's just natural! Yes, Israel can invade but it can't kill all the people of palestine.People are missing the point in this conflict.If the whole world want peace beetwen these two enemies,they need to bring both sides to the negotiation table and be a "fair"judge.This is what is lacking.That's the reason why they will not stop attacking each other.We need leadership in the U.N. that is fair to both sides. Israel has the right to exist and aspires to a better future just as much as the palestinian people. The killing of innocent children and woman will never spare Isreal from retaliations.The killing of Isreal people will never give Hamas what it want.So both have come to a deadend.Now, the International community must act fairly to bring both side to the NEGOTIATION table.THAT WILL BE THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. Hamas has been labeled a terrorist network fo killing Isreal people.What is Isreal doing NOW? If you are a honest person and a honest country who believe in Justice, you SHOULD CALL ISREAL A TERRORIST STATE TOO.
ISREAL WANT PEACE,PALESTINIAN PEOPLE WANT PEACE.But the U.N has to be fair to both side in their resolutions.

Posted by: Rolan at January 6, 2009 06:21 AM

Israel has a lot of options for victory in Gaza. The most obvious is to cut it into strips, stay out of the urban areas, and when Hamas comes out to fight, kill them off using conventional warfare.

Frankly, a military victory is entirely possible, but I doubt Israel has the stomach for a Chechnya-style war. Having studied MOUT extensively it looks like the Israelis are making good decisions so far.

When the Palestinians wants peace more than respect they will stop lining up behind thugs and demand a functional government that looks after their interests, not the interests of the puppet thugs themselves. Egypt nor Jordon has a problem with Israel because they signed a treaty and they honor their obligations. As a result they enjoy peace and prosperity, not the nihilistic broken rubble of Afghanistan - the end result of most Islamic theocracies.

Posted by: Grey Beard at January 6, 2009 06:07 AM

well,, i think is time for the people of the world to know that killing is not why we are in this world,,we also should know that we are the same in the eyes of almighty God who med each an every one of us,and we should also stop discrenateing bcs that will not help us,, killing the innocent people is what i really dont like,,the leaders should kill them selves alone not people of the country who dont know what there are fighting for ,, bcs for me i know they are fighting for their own selfish intrest,,thats all i have to say for now,and i hope God should touch their mind to stop this mess there are doing..

Posted by: ugochukwu at January 6, 2009 05:37 AM

I am unhappy with both sides of this cconflict. Israel thinks its might will guarantee its security. They cannot use force to subjugate the palestinian people. May be the hidden agenda being carried through is the systhematic killing of all palestinians. Go ahead, IDF but remember you cannot ever kill the very last palestinian.
Hamas, should also realize that they cannot withstand the might of the IDF. It makes no sens to launch rockets and give the Israelis the opportunity to attack the Palestinian people. If even ten million palestinians are killed, the international community will stand aloof and not dare equate that to the Nazy's attrocities against the Jews.
Hamas cannot kill every Israeli let alone the last Israeli standing. They need to rethink their strategies. The international community is never willing to condemn Israel, the untouchable, as it would had it been any other nation.
If the IDF had all their soldiers' hands hands tied to their back, they would still enflict irreparable dammage to Hamas. So, why not withdraw to the 1967 border lines and let the international community warn Hamas against any provocation. The land that you grabbed has not secured peace for you so what's the point holding onto it further? Are you going to kill every palestinian in your path before you say, Peace?

Posted by: KASPER at January 6, 2009 05:22 AM

Perhaps you'd prefer to see your sister and mother raped in front of you (which was common then). If they fought back, it simply earned a bullet between the eyes. My point is....before you try spreading what a "visionary" that low-down dirty piece of dogshit that man was, learn some history, or simply talk to some who were there. The man was not only a monster...he was THE monster of the 20th century. The lowest of the low, the most evil a human become before being Satan himself. Don't believe blindly in propaganda, believe the facts...and the fact is he's a murdering inhuman bastard.

Posted by: Bryan at January 6, 2009 05:14 AM

Nick, I just read your comment about Hitler...how is it...that you can justify the decision of a man (monster) who knowingly plotted the deaths of almost 6 million people in the holocaust and planned to kill millions more? Think back to WW2...you're sitting with your family in a ragged apartment one sunny afternoon, you hear gunfire, and then out of nowhere an armed uniformed officer kicks in your front door, and with a sub-machinegun pointed at your forehead, orders you and your entire family out that door...your sister, your mother, your father, your brothers, both your grandparents......you have no idea where you're going until you get there. To be burned alive for no reason other than your ethnicity. Think about that for a moment before you say something stupid.

Posted by: Bryan at January 6, 2009 05:05 AM

To Eijak Rabin, there is no proof that Benjamin Franklin ever said any of that. In fact, it has been debunked numerous times. Don't spread misinformation.

Posted by: John Bode at January 6, 2009 05:02 AM

I think it's absolutely fantastic. Israel is doing what the rest of the world should have done a long time ago. Let me be very clear, if you wake a sleeping grizzly you better be damn sure you're ready to reap the consequences. The Palestinians kept poking and prodding at Israel for years with their rockets, and now, they're finally reaping the not-so-modest reprisal they've long deserved. I think Hamas should be wiped from the planet, if a few civilians get mixed up in the fire then it's to be expected. I feel for them, but I do not pity them. They voted for them in the first place. In their last election, the Palestinian people had a choice between a conservative man who would make peace with Israel, or a Hamas leader...they chose Hamas...they knew who led them, and many of them knew the provokers and even protected them. They made their bed, now they must lie in it. I feel no pity or remorse. Keep fighting the good fight Israel, take that entire area and leave no stone unturned, you've been pushed around long enough. Even as the rest of the Arab world considers you an enemy, there are those in the US that consider you a friend. Don't stop until you have completely taken the entire area. Semper Fi.

Posted by: Bryan at January 6, 2009 04:54 AM

I'm thinking if Obama continues to ignore this, he may please both sides of the isle. Lets see how the world is sounding by the end of 4 years without any hint of American intervention.

Posted by: Jeff M at January 6, 2009 04:47 AM

Notice who are condemning Israel? They are those who never said a word when suicide bombers attacked different parts of the world! Much as I pity the civilians in Gaza, I also did pity the innocent civilians who died in buses, bus stations, malls, parks, wherever the suicide bombers headed. Blame Hamas, not Israel. Hamas was the threat. Israel is justified to strike back. It is very unfortunate that the children and innocent people are caught in the crossfire. This would not have happened if Hamas is brave enough to face the war and not shield themselves behind civilians. Hamas' action is treqachery to its own people. Hamas does not care at all the collateral damage that's happening in Gaza. All the reports on casualties are serving the Hamas' propaganda well. This is all pure lip service. I personally pray for a ceasefire for the sake of the Gaza people. But Hamas must also stop its obsession of destroying Israel.

Posted by: elizabeth at January 6, 2009 04:41 AM

I agree with the write who said Abu Mazin is a freemson. Such groups including AMORC, Lions Club, Illuminati are the cause of all the troubles of the world. They try to establish dorminance by placing their members in strategic positions of power.
The unfortunate thing they don't reaalize is that their chickens will come to roast someday.

I now look at Hitler not as a monster, but rather as a visionary. As someone who foresaw what would become of this world when a group of people, mostly psycopaths continue to control the world. May he rest in peace.

Posted by: Nick at January 6, 2009 04:39 AM

the speech given by Benjamin Franklin in regards to Jewish immigration at the First Constitutional Convention:
“In what ever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other peoples not of their race.

Posted by: Eijak Rabin at January 6, 2009 04:27 AM

Come on,this is so simple to dissect. Abu Mazin is a freemason just like the leadership of Israel. hamas is not run by freemasons,so they have to be completely eliminated from the scene. Then Abu Mazin will be made ruler of all of Gaza & the West Bank. After that a "free & independent" Palestine will be declared & ALL of the Palestinians the world over will return to their new "homeland." Israel can then slaughter in a genocidal slaughter ALL Palestinians from the face of the earth. Israel will also defeat & slaughter Egypt,Lebanon & Hezbollah,Jordan,& Syria,nuking Damascus from the face of the earth.Israel can then expand into "Greater Israel" & face the Shanghai Cooperation Organization member states from Russia,the Central Asian Republics,Georgia,Azerbaijan,Armenia,the Ukraine,Moldova,Belarus,Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iran,& Turkey from the north,& an African coalition led by the Sudan & Libya from the South. All of this will happen while Chinese "satellite" North Korea will threaten the whole northern hemisphere with "Chinese" ICBMs(come on,you know that all of those North Korean missiles they have today are really Chinese made),nuking South Korea & Japan,& threatening major U.S. cities.China will then invade & take back Taiwan,& finally terrorism will strike all of the world's major democracies & drive all of these "free states" into military dictatorships.

Posted by: Roy Smith at January 6, 2009 03:45 AM

I have to agree with HPC on this one. In order for there to be a peaceful compromise between two groups, BOTH groups have to want peace with the other. Without that mutual respect and desire for peace, all the Jimmy Carters in the world are at best an academic excercise in futility and at worst, deeply harmful as they lend validity to the actions of terrorist groups like Hamas.

Think about it. The fundamental muslim world in general, and Hamas in particular are bent on the destruction of the Israeli civilization. This has been a driving desire and goal of most of the arab world for milenia so it should come as little surprise that today's generation of palestinians should allow, if not facilitate, the violence perpetrated by Hamas against Israel. In view of the depth of such facist hatred and the constant threat of violence against their citizens, what reasonable mind could possibly not lend unqualified concurrence to Israel's recent efforts?

Was America so different in motive and action in the months following the attacks of September 11, 2001? Did we not invade a sovreign country and depose a government because they were allowing terrorists to operate with impunity within their borders? Why then is Israel not entitled to the same? Why must they endure daily censure and condemnation from so many for defending themselves as we ourselves did not so long ago? Surely, innocent people have and will lose their lives. This is a tragic but unavoidable fact of war. However, an unbiased mind would commend Israel for their restraint and care in avoiding civilian casualties. As evidenced by many historical accounts, such consideration is certainly more than they could expect from their enemies were the situation reversed. Furthermore, many, if not most of Israel's harshest critics are either governments who sympathize with, if not overtly support Hamas or are unscrupulous media outlets who would happily sacrifice honesty and journalistic integrity for sensationalism and ratings. In all fairness, there are some who will say it like it is but, sadly, such candor is not as common today as it once was.

In short, our thoughtful and vigorous support for Israel's efforts is well deserved and imperfect as the situation may be, it remains the only effective means of addressing those who would otherwise continue their rampage of senseless and hateful violence.

Posted by: AMT at January 6, 2009 03:39 AM

I don't think Israel expected to get international support. They know how the deck is stacked. The timing of this operation while questionable, was greatly aided by Hamas' recent actions. It is possible that Iran goaded them into provoking Israel as a gift to the weak government to justify actually doing something before the elections and prevent Bibi Netanyahu being elected.

Doubtful that Hamas could think of something like that themselves, but Teheran could.

Posted by: SamIam at January 6, 2009 03:37 AM

I think everyone is missing the point of this war. Eliminate Hamas, Provoke hezbollah to attack, And then Iran's nuclear facilities are fair game. Israel doesnt want to wait for The new american administration to broker peace with an enemy that has sworn to use nuclear weapons to wipe it off the face of the earth. A nuclear Iran threatens a chain reaction in proliferation that is just unacceptable to the west. Unless Obama is a miracle worker, (i love him and his message, and hope things improve) Extremist regimes will have to fall 1 by 1. How do you feel about them cheering in the streets on 9/11. Or Pakistan allowing Bin Laden to hang out in its hills undisturbed. Or Iran supplying weapons in Iraq that have Killed United States Soldiers. Peace on earth is a wonderful idea, i hope my generation can bring it, but sadly there are some people who refuse to come along for the ride, and our future depends on making difficult choices.

Posted by: Anthony at January 6, 2009 03:17 AM

WELL BOY'S AND GIRL'S, HERE'S MY INTAKE ON THIS IF NOBODY CARE'S OR NOT. LET ISREAL HAVE IT'S WAY, HAMAS STARTED THIS MESS, EVERYONE IS SICK AND TIRED OF THESE SO CALLED TERRORISTS, THEY'RE JUST DEMON POSSESSED, AND FOR ONCE THERE IS SOMEONE OF THEY'RE OWN COUNTRY FIGHTING ON THEY'RE OWN AND NOT TRYING TOO INVOLVE ANYONE ELSE!@! LET THEM BE, THIS IS THEY'RE COUNTRY, IT'S BEING DEALT WITH THEY'RE WAY, EVERYONE IN DISSAGREEMENT NEEDS TOO JUST SHUT UP, AND LET THEMM ENGAGE IN THEY'RE OWN WAY AND THEY'RE OWN BUSINESS!! THEY'RE TIRED OF THE HAMAS, WHO ISN'T? AND THE MORE THEY REMAIN ALIVE, THE MORE HAMAS INVADES!! EVERYONE NEEDS TOO BACK OFF AND STAY OUT OF IT!! I FLAG THEM OF HONOR!! AFTER ALL AMERICA, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG BUT, DID WE NOT AFTER 9-11 MAKE A PLEDGE TOO KILL BINLADEN? AND WHEN WE DID GO TOO IRAQ, YOU ALL KNOW WHERE ALL OF THOSE WOMD WERE FOUND? AND STOOD BACK AND WATCHED OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN GET THEY'RE ASSES SHOT OFF? MEANWILE SIRIEA,& IRAN WAS SUPPLYING OVER THE BORDERS WEAPONS SO THAT HAMAS COULD CONTINUE THEY'RE RIDE THROUGHTOUT THE TOWNS LIKE THE HEADLESS HORSEMEN!! IRAQ'S MILITARY UNIT AND VEHICLES WERE SOOO DEAD IT LOOKED LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A MAD MAX MOVIE!!! MEANWHILE BACK AT THE RANCH, BINLADEN'S MORE THAN LIKELY HANGING OUT ON SOUTH BEACH FLORIDA STILL GIVEING ORDERS:-) YOU KNOW HOW AMERICA PROTECTS IT'S BORDERS!! AND SEE HOW THE BORDER PATROL GETS PUNISHMENT FOR "NOT LETTING DRUGDEALERS IN" YEAH RIGHT, AND PRESIDENT BUSH IS MY DADDY. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ILLEAGEL PEOPLE ARE HERE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE UNACCOUNTED FOR FROM THE MIDDLE EAST? THOUSANDS, THE NUMBER IS UNKNOWN!! SO GUESS WHAT, IF YOU TRUST THE GOVERNMENT LIKE I DO,YOU ALSO WOULD HAVE FOUND BINLADEN BY NOW!! I HOPE IN MY LIFETIME THEY WILL FIND BINLADEN AND CUT OFF HIS PRIVATES AND ATTATCH THEM TOO HIS FOREHEAD SO HE WILL BE ABLE TOO GO DOWN AS A SUPER DICK. HE'S SETTING UP ALL OF THE COUNTRIES TOO BE AGAINST EACH OTHER, AND YOU WILL NEVER FIND HIM, NO WHY, THE BUSH COMMUNITY HAS BEEN IN BED WITH THE SAUDI'S FOREVER AND A DAY, WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU EXPECT, OUR OWN PRESIDENT AND GOVERNMENT SOLD US OUT!! AND, IT'S NOW HAPPENING JUST WHAT BINLADIN WANTED. AMERICA TOO IT'S KNEE'S, A BUSTED SOCIETY, HOMELESSNESS, JOBLESS, AND WHEN THE ONE'S THAT OVER THERE COME BACK WOUNDED, IT'S JUST LIKE THE STORY IN THE BIBLE ABOUT JESUS AND PETER....HOW MANY TIMES DID THE COCK CROW AND HOW MANY TIMES DID HE DENOUNCE OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR? WAKE UP PEOPLE, IN DAYS TOO COME WE WILL BE LIVING JUST LIKE THE MOVIE PORTRAY'S IN MAD MAX. RIGHT ON ISREAL, YOU HAVE THE KAHONA'S FOR STICKING UP FOR YOU'RE OWN COUNTRY. READ YOU'RE BIBLE AMERICA, THE JEW'S ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE. WHY IS ANYONE CRITISIZING THEM FOR FIGHTING FOR WHAT'S RIGHT? GET A CLUE. CONNIE STEUBER

Posted by: CONNIE STEUBER at January 6, 2009 03:03 AM

Is it just me or does everyone else know the FIRST responsibility of any government is the protection of its people. I think both side in the never ending saga are NUTS! The extremist on both sides are in control and have ALWAYS found a way to blow any real chance at a lasting truce or reasonable living accommodation. They keep their people hating and blaming the other side for their mutual constant bloodbaths. Without this constant strife, both sides are afraid their people would focus on the real true problem which is bad governments that are really THIEFDOM, KLEPTOCRACRY and TRIBAL FASCISM posing as governments!....

Posted by: neutral at January 6, 2009 01:59 AM

Posted by: dm at January 5, 2009 10:06 PM
-------------

Oh lord that made so much sence...not....

i mean seriously we'ed just go in and kick the mexicans asses....but realy i dont see mexico able to tackle the texas national guard let alone the US misiltary in all its glory.......

add to that the fact that we'ed just be pissed and probbly annex mexico (would it realy be that bad seriously some nice women ppl beaches liquor?...think about it). where as Hamas is calling for the eradication of all jews..and the down fall of the US....yea real accurate.

---------------------

Heres what no one here is talking about the countries surrounding israel and palestine DONT want a peace there only islam its there stick there way of keeping there ppl afraid and huddled and away from self inspection.

---------------------

Hamas was elected. The democratic process was rejected by both the US and Israel......

so technicaly that means the civilians are our enemies sence they voted for the government that wants us americans to dies and to eradicate israel?...

Posted by: Valcan at January 6, 2009 12:51 AM

Israel as we know it is facing a demographic time bomb staring them in the face. You can't continue to have millions of Palestinians within your borders and continue to be a Jewish state, security or not. Force them out and you destabilize the region. Cyclical conflagrations further weaken the moderate dictators neighboring Israel. Imagine if Egypt destabilized. That would make Gaza look like a picnic.

Miltary power will only work in tandem with political gains. As long as a settlement which both sides find just goes unresolved new militant groups are going to spring up and take the old ones places. Regional adversaries of the Israelis will also continue to find disenchanted Palestinians ready for enlistment.

One problem is that the Palestinians are now fractured politically. The Palestinian Authority had power and Western money and they wasted it and didn't help the people. Israel also doesn't do itself any favors either. There are many things currently going on in the West Bank that are unsavory. Hamas's military wing may be reckless, but their political wing actually provides services for their people, which led them to power. This of course brought on the disastrous blockade of Gaza. If you take out Hamas, who will fill the vacuum? The PLO no longer have legitimacy and is seen as corrupt and a puppet.

Posted by: Drake at January 6, 2009 12:12 AM

Hamas was elected. The democratic process was rejected by both the US and Israel.

Hamas is nothing more than the PLO for the 21st century. The PLO was a terror organization.

Engagement. Jaw Jaw is better than War War. But the settlement business needs to come to an end. And so do the pointless rocket attacks.

As for Iran and Hamas as a proxy, rational self interest. You just have to understand the Opfor's reason process.

Posted by: Joe at January 5, 2009 11:21 PM

I think some of you are dancing around the main goal here. Israel has 2 major enemies (Syria & Iran) and 2 minor ones (Hamas & Hezbollah). In dealing with Hezbollah and Hamas they take away the proxies that Syria & Iran use to wage war against Israel. Invading Gaza and killing as many Hamas fighters and leaders as they can and destroying their capacity to strike back, Israel is shoring up its southern flank. They dealt a blow to Hezbollah in 2006, weakening it and placing it behind a UN buffer zone effectively neutralizing it. This is likely leading to a position to where Israel can strike at Iran and not have to worry about being hit by Hamas and Hezbollah, at least not hard. If reports of Iran receiving the S-300 system are true then time is running out for an Israeli attack on Iran. That is a war they can only win by drawing the US in with them. This would surely happen if Iran retaliates against any country other then Israel for the attack

Posted by: ffjbentson at January 5, 2009 11:09 PM

Good Evening Folks,

Here we go again. Israel going into Gaza and a fair number of Palestinians killed, this story can almost write itself. I agree with the statement that there is in the long run no way for Israel to win this dispute. As Sherlock might say, "...it's very fundamental," The war is being fought and decided in the bedroom. Palestinian women have an average of five children where Israeli women have just over one.

Hamas Party are the elected representatives of the Palestinian people, by a fair election and with each generation it's power is growing. Hamas is using a weapon of marginal military effectiveness to lure Israel into military action. Be it free flight rockets or mortars the effect is the same. Fire a few and Israel responds, as it must.

Both sides have poisoned the political environment for so long that a negotiable solution is not in the cards. Israel is at considerable risk of disappearing with in a few generations. At this point there is no creditable third party that can intervene in this dispute. Everybody has dirty hands.

The above is sad but true, lay the blame where you like, but unless Israel can get more babies and increase it population, and equal the population of the Palestinians it's a foregone conclusion.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at January 5, 2009 10:42 PM

Of course Israel cannot 'win' this conflict...
As long as you let Hamas define what is considered a Win!
But... why on Earth would anyone do something like that?
If Israel responds militarily to the attacks by Hamas, Hamas wins, because they get to paint Israel as the violent aggressor... since the Western media keeps referring to Hamas as 'militants', and, even better 'innocent civilians'!
If Israel fails to respond, Hamas wins, since they get to continue bombarding Israel with rockets and mortars...
Since the U.S. Government won't call a spade a spade, or call Hamas terrorists, and what Hamas is trying to do, Genocide...
Because, then we'd have to DO something about it!
And, THAT would anger our Saudi lords and Masters, who seem to be the ones that are really calling the shots around here...

Posted by: William A. Peterson at January 5, 2009 10:27 PM

"How long would the US sit still if there were daily barages of unguided missiles from Ciudad Juarez into El Paso? And would it matter if the rest of the world condemned us?"

What would the Americans do if Mexico annexed Texas and California, creating millions of refugees, confiscating land belonging to whites and giving it to latinos, creating white ghettos surrounded walls and refusing whites the right to travel or trade beyond those walls. What would Americans do if the latinos created free-fire zones around those white ghettos in which men, women and children were shot on sight. What would Americans do if the situation had existed for 50 years, with no end in sight, no discussion of compensation or of a return to normality.

Posted by: dm at January 5, 2009 10:06 PM

The Palestinians believe they have reached the bottom and their enemy (Israel) has no heart to go further. They have no motivation for peace if it cannot get worse why would you settle. They see their position as only to gain over time.

Israel needs to change that mindset. The Palestinians refuse 67' very well, give them a deadline and then the day after take a 10 mile buffer. Push all Palestinians past that buffer then offer peace with the 2009' border with a time limit accept.

They refuse or continue attacks push another 10 miles deeper and repeat etc...

At some point they will either become their fellow "brothers" problem or the common Palestinian will wake up and realize "their current" home is enough.

We don't hear many stories about Palestinian terrorist attacking Israel from Jordan, Lebanon, or Egypt. If they do you get to threaten the conventional war against nation states that is Israel's strong point.

Of course this would require balls and a self respecting pride that our forefathers once had a mentality like "I deserve to live more than X who wants to kill me".

Side Note: I believe Israel sadly is doomed to failure with Olmert/Kadima at the helm. I hate to think it, but I do believe they are doing this to try to get re-elected.

Posted by: C-Low at January 5, 2009 09:29 PM

Israel and the Palestinians are locked in a death spiral. The hatred they have for one another is intense and grows every year. The Israelis think that the Palestinians wont be able to seriously hurt them but they are wrong. The cost of developing bioweapons is falling faster than the cost of computing and the Palestinians have less and less to lose.

Posted by: jim moore at January 5, 2009 09:26 PM

You have to know your enemy, and what it wants and what it does not want, then exploit it. If Israel thinks it can kill enough people, or degrade their enemy's offensive capabilities enough, and win in a long peace, they are surely mistaken-once again.

Unless Israel adopts are real Petreus/McMaster style counter-insurgency, that will take decades, or be willing to literally exterminate the Palestinians, they are just wasting their time, money, lives, and prestige, and other intangibles in this current debacle, just like they did in Lebanon.

Easiest thing would be develop a theater missile/morter/artillery defense system, so they can ignore the harassment, and not get sucked into a 'war' that cannot be won, and is ultimately counter productive for everyone. Otherwise find someone in their military who understands 4 and 5 generation warfare. And please, get an information and psyops warfare program.

Posted by: HPC at January 5, 2009 09:14 PM

How long would the US sit still if there were daily barages of unguided missiles from Ciudad Juarez into El Paso? And would it matter if the rest of the world condemned us?

In the end, each country does what it can to secure its own safety. And this adventure seems to be going better for the IDF than the last outing in Lebanon.

Maybe the geniuses who disparage the 'utility of force' can explain to us how we negotiate a peace with people who want us dead, who think nothing of loading themselves up with nails dipped in cynanide and detonating themselves in a pizzaria, who take some pride in blowing a 2-year old's head off at the seder meal.

We need to lob a couple of Katyushas into their ivory towers - 'win peoples' support' - BS. Israel has no other recourse. A 'peace process', like Jimmy Carter, is largely useless. You need 2 parties that WANT PEACE. Hamas wants you dead - so you kill Hamas. Sorry I couldn't be more cerebral.

Posted by: Torpedo8 at January 5, 2009 07:29 PM

I too have been thinking a lot about Chechnia. Russia has, in a military sense, "won" its Chechen wars but only because both Russia and most Chechen factions have been willing to bear an absolutely horrifying cost in military and civilian casualties in a prolonged "total" war-- a war in which, to be honest, the rest of the world has a fairly limited interest.

Neither the Israeli state nor Hamas (nor Fatah, nor the PFLP) have the political support or the military capacity to do this, nor are they, frankly, insane. (Islamic Jihad is crazy enough but lacks the military capacity.) Israel can't keep fighting for months, neither can Hamas.

The main financial and materiel supporter of the Palestinians, Iran, doesn't want a "total war" scenario, because as witnessed in Iraq, what they really value is an ongoing situation where they can ratchet up or ratchet down pressure both against Israel and in intra-Palestinian politics at a level that's important to them, but is below what's normally noticed in the Western media.

Posted by: some guy at January 5, 2009 07:24 PM

I agree with Christian. The Isreali government has been planning this since they got their noses bloodied in Lebanon. This is strictly political with the coming elections. This operation isn't something you plan or prepare to execute in a few weeks.

Posted by: DC2 Jennings at January 5, 2009 07:09 PM

Why would you think Israel would expect anything other than condemnation?

Short of abandoning all of Israel to the Palestinians, Israel is going to be denounced by the "international community" regardless of what it does.

You can't seriously expect Israel to determine its actions solely, or even primarily, on the basis of whether it will be liked or not.

Even Hamas is honest enough to say that they have no interest in a permanent peace, want Israel destroyed, and cease-fires are a way for them to prepare for more confrontation with Israel.

While the current action will not destroy Hamas or end threats against Israel, it does not mean that it can simply stand by while its citizens come under attack.

It could well be that its goals here are short-term security, rather than a permanent solution.

Posted by: J at January 5, 2009 07:05 PM

I think Israel has the power to win this, i mean they have a lot more tech. and are fed up with this stuff...i mean yes its a gurilla war but look at it. I mean they are winning, sure civilians are being killed but its war. I fully support isreal in this war, and i would bet that withen the next few weeks this war will be in full swing and hamas will be in its weakest stages.

Posted by: Tphai at January 5, 2009 06:59 PM

At 66 I have been aware of the Gaza Strip since the 1950s when men's pulp magazines would have a story on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Without US aid at over $4 billion a year, Israel would not have survived. During the Yom Kippur war in Oct '73 Nixon-Kissinger provided airlift and replaced every lost Israeli tank. Maybe Barak, the defense chief, can pull this one off.

Posted by: Michael at January 5, 2009 06:51 PM

There is a precedent for Israel's current approach to work. Has anyone noticed that the Hezbo's haven't opened up a northern front? There's a reason -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/05/world/middleeast/05hezbollah.html?ref=middleeast

Even though most folks consider the 2006 Hezbollah War to have been a draw, it's pretty clear on the ground that the IDF blew up enough stuff and "broke enough toys" in 2006 that Hezbo can't play again for awhile.

Posted by: Chadzilla at January 5, 2009 05:49 PM

Maybe it is a real war. Maybe they took a page from Putin's book in Checniya. They will just kill all of Hammas and anybody that gets in the way. By some counts Russia killed 100,000 in Checniya.

Posted by: JV at January 5, 2009 05:30 PM

Considering that rockets fired from Gaza may be a
threat to Israel's Dimona nuclear facility someday:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5430133.ece

Can the Israeli's afford to let the status quo re-assert itself once the Israeli army pulls out?

The big question is: How this can be prevented?

Posted by: esmoore5 at January 5, 2009 05:20 PM

The point is really to unseat Hamas, and spook anyone considering acting as an Iranian proxy, I would think; why wouldn't it work, at least a bit?

Posted by: Mad Millenial at January 5, 2009 05:00 PM